Originally by: Balrokenx

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It seems the dev are starting to cater for the carebear whines. It might not be game breaking atm but it just proves that if you whine enough you get what you want.

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Originally by: Balrokenx

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It seems the dev are starting to cater for the carebear whines. It might not be game breaking atm but it just proves that if you whine enough you get what you want.

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Originally by: Jimer Lins

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Originally by: Balrokenx

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It seems the dev are starting to cater for the carebear whines. It might not be game breaking atm but it just proves that if you whine enough you get what you want.

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These things go in cycles. Right now it's pvpers whining and whatever happens next, CCP will be accused of caving in to them. Then roles will reverse.

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Originally by: Thorradin

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Looks more to me like EVE just lost the easymode that nanosetups and suicide ganking got to take advantage of. I know people are shocked that something like suicide ganking is going to have serious consequence. I know, breaking the law in a highly secure area is a bigger issue than breaking it in Mos Esley, go figure.

It depends on how they change wardecs. Right now they really are just stupid. Pay CONCORD a ****ant amount of money to make them completely void, there's got to be a better way for both sides, or atleast a more logical (since people who like to spend 2mil isk to dec and extort others will likely cry over this like they are with suicide ganking actually being a risk).

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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I'm worried it is.

Three-fold suicide gank nerf (insurance, plus faster concord response, plus increased sec hits), expected wardec nerf (with justifications like 'defenders lack control in the war' and 'wardecs are a pay for grief system'), all point out to EvE developers giving up the original idea and abandoning a lot of the ideas which were tossed about in the past even as part of user manual (security is your own responsibility,PvP-centric, risk/reward, etc).

There's few other ships to jump to, unfortunately.

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Originally by: Crazy Tasty

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Qft. Been playing for about 2 years and I've seen it happen a little at a time, some things not even publicly acknowledged (for example, my sig).

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Originally by: Zeba

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And what ship exactly was the OP going to jump on? Eve is unique and has no real similar mmo competition.

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Originally by: Zeba

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OP needs to look at it from this angle. CCP needs moar money to fund all the awesome stuff that will make the dedicated pvpers and pirates cream their pants everytime they log on. However the pitbull mentality of the dedicated pvper is not really in the majority in the real world so we get a greifer oriented Eve with only 250kish active subscribers and a carebear paradise like Wow with literally millions. CCP being the godly guys they are have found a way to suck some of those teeming masses of carebears from other mmo's to fund the rabid pvpers in Eve by making empire a few percent safer than it has ever been. Not safe but safer. Huge difference. Moar $$$$ per month in CCPs wallet means moar programmers hired to iron out all the little things that need working on so infiniband and moastly lag free fights can be had by all. If certain people would look a bit farther than the end of their noses they might realise this and jump on the wagon with both feet.

And what ship exactly was the OP going to jump on? Eve is unique and has no real similar mmo competition.

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Originally by: Esmenet

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Why would i care if EVE solves the lagproblem after its lost everything that made it stand out from the hordes of other npc oriented mmorpgs out there?

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Originally by: Ruze

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Originally by: Balrokenx

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It seems the dev are starting to cater for the carebear whines. It might not be game breaking atm but it just proves that if you whine enough you get what you want.

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Worst case scenario, I'm worried that the developers will start aiming more media, and adjusting various parts of Empire space, to draw in a larger crowd, faster.

Not so much catering to the carebear whines, per se, but going after that WoW target audience. I think that would be a bad move for EvE, as far as me enjoying it.

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Originally by: Gretzel

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What are peoples honest opinions of EVE going care bear. Just wondering if this is time to jump ship.

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Originally by: Jacob Mei

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Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

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heh the changes as stated make highsec more than a few percent safer. unless you are a complete and total idiot.

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Oh good that means I can take my freighter full of expensive ships, ore and modules, totaling about 2 billion and go to Jita uninsured because the security changes lull me into a false sence of security.

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Originally by: Korizan

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Originally by: Jacob Mei

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Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

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heh the changes as stated make highsec more than a few percent safer. unless you are a complete and total idiot.

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Oh good that means I can take my freighter full of expensive ships, ore and modules, totaling about 2 billion and go to Jita uninsured because the security changes lull me into a false sence of security.

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Don't forget to post your itinary at least one week in advance

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Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

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heh the changes as stated make highsec more than a few percent safer. unless you are a complete and total idiot.

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Originally by: Alchem

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CCP got rid of pirates due to FW

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Originally by: Vaal Erit

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EVE is getting a little bit more carebear, but still in its entirety it is lagely hardcore (except for level 4 mission *****s)

Every nerf ejects a lot of the talentless PvP losers and allows for fresh new talent and new tactics. I mean you can't catch someone with WTZ and people emo-quit? You can't nano your ship and combat is completely ruined? My myrm can no longer lauch 5x heavys and wtfsolopwn wahhh wahhh?

I just wish the whiners would quit when they threaten to. Feel free to jump ship because you have to expend a tiny bit of effort instead of having kills handed to you on a silver platter, we will not miss you at all. (directed at all the lurking whiners)

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Originally by: Jacob Mei

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Originally by: Gretzel

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What are peoples honest opinions of EVE going care bear. Just wondering if this is time to jump ship.

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Its not, if anything its becoming less carebear land. Lets look at what the nerfs affect for a moment.

Nerf 1: Speed
Nerf 2: Security system

In the case of Nerf one prior to this change being introduced players can create loadouts that take advantage of the games physics engine by getting their ships to excelerate to speeds that the developers had not envisioned. These speeds allowed the user to to use speed in itself as a tank by outrunning the turrets ammo while at the same time being able to inflict damage. The only counter to this was to use a nano setup yourself which drasticly limited what loadouts in pvp were viable.

In the cast of the second Nerf, many players *cough*Goons*Cough* were taking advantage of a combination of the current security system and null sec resources. By using the resources of 0.0 these players were able to amass large amounts of wealth or resources to create suicide fleets. Once their sec status fell below a certain level they would return to low/null sec to rat and regain their sec standing to reenter high sec, this was accomplishable after a few days and with certain ship combinations insurance paid for the cost of the ship and ussually whatever loot came from the wrecks paid for the modules.

In both instances the individual who used either nano or suicide tactics stood in a nearly impervious stance compared to the rest of eve. The Nano user rarely had to worry about damage from others and the suicider was able to kill without much if any financial loss to their actions and the only "pentance" they paid was a few days of null sec ratting.

With both nerfs the nano user is once again put on a even playing feild with the rest of us and the suicider is faced with a financial slap as well as a heafty sec loss depending on who he attacks and where.

In short, those who used these tactics are *****ing because they are subjected to loss once again and are complaining about it... hey, isnt that what a carebear does? Complain that they lost something?

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Originally by: Zeba

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Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

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heh the changes as stated make highsec more than a few percent safer. unless you are a complete and total idiot.

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Totally unexpected gank wrecks for ouchies. I agree that the insurance hit is way too harsh but really can't you guys still make great profits without any insurance off the major targets you normally stalk? The sec hits that are now applied as a curve would not seem to me to be an issue with you guys.

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Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

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Originally by: Jacob Mei

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Originally by: Gretzel

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What are peoples honest opinions of EVE going care bear. Just wondering if this is time to jump ship.

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Its not, if anything its becoming less carebear land. Lets look at what the nerfs affect for a moment.

Nerf 1: Speed
Nerf 2: Security system

In the case of Nerf one prior to this change being introduced players can create loadouts that take advantage of the games physics engine by getting their ships to excelerate to speeds that the developers had not envisioned. These speeds allowed the user to to use speed in itself as a tank by outrunning the turrets ammo while at the same time being able to inflict damage. The only counter to this was to use a nano setup yourself which drasticly limited what loadouts in pvp were viable.

In the cast of the second Nerf, many players *cough*Goons*Cough* were taking advantage of a combination of the current security system and null sec resources. By using the resources of 0.0 these players were able to amass large amounts of wealth or resources to create suicide fleets. Once their sec status fell below a certain level they would return to low/null sec to rat and regain their sec standing to reenter high sec, this was accomplishable after a few days and with certain ship combinations insurance paid for the cost of the ship and ussually whatever loot came from the wrecks paid for the modules.

In both instances the individual who used either nano or suicide tactics stood in a nearly impervious stance compared to the rest of eve. The Nano user rarely had to worry about damage from others and the suicider was able to kill without much if any financial loss to their actions and the only "pentance" they paid was a few days of null sec ratting.

With both nerfs the nano user is once again put on a even playing feild with the rest of us and the suicider is faced with a financial slap as well as a heafty sec loss depending on who he attacks and where.

In short, those who used these tactics are *****ing because they are subjected to loss once again and are complaining about it... hey, isnt that what a carebear does? Complain that they lost something?

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Imagine a set of stairs, there is one guy standing at the top, and another guy standing on the third or so stair. the higher up the stairs you are the faster you go, each nano mod/implant/gang bonus lets you jump a few stairs up. the guy at the top is snaked up has gang bonuses, faction equipment, tech 2polys. guy near the bottom has t2 mwd, t2 overdrives, t2 nanos, no poly carbons and a zor's custom hyper-navigation link. now say the guy at the top of the stairs gets pushed, falls down the stairs lands on the guy near the bottom and then they both continue falling till they hit the bottom. now the guy with the pimped shit is on the first stair and the other guy is on the floor.

that's a ****ing nerf sledgehammer.

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Originally by: Jacob Mei

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Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

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heh the changes as stated make highsec more than a few percent safer. unless you are a complete and total idiot.

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Oh good that means I can take my freighter full of expensive ships, ore and modules, totaling about 2 billion and go to Jita uninsured because the security changes lull me into a false sence of security.

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Originally by: Vaal Erit

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I just wish the whiners would quit when they threaten to.

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Originally by: Jacob Mei

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Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

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Originally by: Jacob Mei

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Originally by: Gretzel

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What are peoples honest opinions of EVE going care bear. Just wondering if this is time to jump ship.

---

Its not, if anything its becoming less carebear land. Lets look at what the nerfs affect for a moment.

Nerf 1: Speed
Nerf 2: Security system

In the case of Nerf one prior to this change being introduced players can create loadouts that take advantage of the games physics engine by getting their ships to excelerate to speeds that the developers had not envisioned. These speeds allowed the user to to use speed in itself as a tank by outrunning the turrets ammo while at the same time being able to inflict damage. The only counter to this was to use a nano setup yourself which drasticly limited what loadouts in pvp were viable.

In the cast of the second Nerf, many players *cough*Goons*Cough* were taking advantage of a combination of the current security system and null sec resources. By using the resources of 0.0 these players were able to amass large amounts of wealth or resources to create suicide fleets. Once their sec status fell below a certain level they would return to low/null sec to rat and regain their sec standing to reenter high sec, this was accomplishable after a few days and with certain ship combinations insurance paid for the cost of the ship and ussually whatever loot came from the wrecks paid for the modules.

In both instances the individual who used either nano or suicide tactics stood in a nearly impervious stance compared to the rest of eve. The Nano user rarely had to worry about damage from others and the suicider was able to kill without much if any financial loss to their actions and the only "pentance" they paid was a few days of null sec ratting.

With both nerfs the nano user is once again put on a even playing feild with the rest of us and the suicider is faced with a financial slap as well as a heafty sec loss depending on who he attacks and where.

In short, those who used these tactics are *****ing because they are subjected to loss once again and are complaining about it... hey, isnt that what a carebear does? Complain that they lost something?

---

Imagine a set of stairs, there is one guy standing at the top, and another guy standing on the third or so stair. the higher up the stairs you are the faster you go, each nano mod/implant/gang bonus lets you jump a few stairs up. the guy at the top is snaked up has gang bonuses, faction equipment, tech 2polys. guy near the bottom has t2 mwd, t2 overdrives, t2 nanos, no poly carbons and a zor's custom hyper-navigation link. now say the guy at the top of the stairs gets pushed, falls down the stairs lands on the guy near the bottom and then they both continue falling till they hit the bottom. now the guy with the pimped shit is on the first stair and the other guy is on the floor.

that's a ****ing nerf sledgehammer.

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Id retort if I had to but your example makes my head hurt trying to understand it.

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Originally by: Rawr Cristina

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Originally by: Vaal Erit

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I just wish the whiners would quit when they threaten to.

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It's like getting an emo child to actually go through with it instead of being all dramatic and angsty for max.attention

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Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

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i wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with the nano nerf, just saying it was a bit strong.

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Originally by: Zeba

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Edited by: Zeba on 12/08/2008 02:20:59

Originally by: Esmenet

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Why would i care if EVE solves the lagproblem after its lost everything that made it stand out from the hordes of other npc oriented mmorpgs out there?

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Well thats a bit of a melodramatic responce over the current proposed needed nano changes (but don't nerf intys!!!!) Plus changing the suicide gank mechanics from a flat line standings hit no matter what sec system you're in to a much more reasonable and realistic curved standings hit was inevitable. Its going to be a boost for non pirate players in that they can attack players who are not quite into the flashy red but obviously a pirate for a reduced standings hit. A lot of people have stayed out of low sec for that very reason as they didn't want to eventually get excluded from empire by simply defending their turf. Insurance being totally axed for ship losses to Concord might be a bit harsh but really if your gonna make a few billion off the loot of a ganked freighter you can afford the cost of the gank. Saying that I think insurance on suicide ganks should be cut to about 40% of the normal platinum payout. That way it still hurts if the good lootz get destroyed but not enought to make the op a total loss. But hey thats why we have the forums and can voice our opinions at will.

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Originally by: Gretzel

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What are peoples honest opinions of EVE going care bear. Just wondering if this is time to jump ship.

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Originally by: Thorradin

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Looks more to me like EVE just lost the easymode that nanosetups and suicide ganking got to take advantage of. I know people are shocked that something like suicide ganking is going to have serious consequence. I know, breaking the law in a highly secure area is a bigger issue than breaking it in Mos Esley, go figure.

It depends on how they change wardecs. Right now they really are just stupid. Pay CONCORD a ****ant amount of money to make them completely void, there's got to be a better way for both sides, or atleast a more logical (since people who like to spend 2mil isk to dec and extort others will likely cry over this like they are with suicide ganking actually being a risk).

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How about we remove L3/L4 missions from high-sec to reduce the easy-mode ISK printing. After all, you want to be safe, what do you need the ISK for?

Just a thought. Risk/reward, eh?

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Originally by: Esmenet

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Originally by: Zeba

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Edited by: Zeba on 12/08/2008 02:20:59

Originally by: Esmenet

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Why would i care if EVE solves the lagproblem after its lost everything that made it stand out from the hordes of other npc oriented mmorpgs out there?

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Well thats a bit of a melodramatic responce over the current proposed needed nano changes (but don't nerf intys!!!!) Plus changing the suicide gank mechanics from a flat line standings hit no matter what sec system you're in to a much more reasonable and realistic curved standings hit was inevitable. Its going to be a boost for non pirate players in that they can attack players who are not quite into the flashy red but obviously a pirate for a reduced standings hit. A lot of people have stayed out of low sec for that very reason as they didn't want to eventually get excluded from empire by simply defending their turf. Insurance being totally axed for ship losses to Concord might be a bit harsh but really if your gonna make a few billion off the loot of a ganked freighter you can afford the cost of the gank. Saying that I think insurance on suicide ganks should be cut to about 40% of the normal platinum payout. That way it still hurts if the good lootz get destroyed but not enought to make the op a total loss. But hey thats why we have the forums and can voice our opinions at will.

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Its not just the current nerf but the change in attitude from CCP, and what they say about other things. I dont want to play a game where high sec is a place for isk generation in perfect safety and low sec/0.0 is some sort of wow type battlegrounds. But thats where the game is heading.

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Originally by: Zeba

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OP needs to look at it from this angle. CCP needs moar money to fund all the awesome stuff that will make the dedicated pvpers and pirates cream their pants everytime they log on. However the pitbull mentality of the dedicated pvper is not really in the majority in the real world so we get a greifer oriented Eve with only 250kish active subscribers and a carebear paradise like Wow with literally millions. CCP being the godly guys they are have found a way to suck some of those teeming masses of carebears from other mmo's to fund the rabid pvpers in Eve by making empire a few percent safer than it has ever been. Not safe but safer. Huge difference. Moar $$$$ per month in CCPs wallet means moar programmers hired to iron out all the little things that need working on so infiniband and moastly lag free fights can be had by all. If certain people would look a bit farther than the end of their noses they might realise this and jump on the wagon with both feet.

And what ship exactly was the OP going to jump on? Eve is unique and has no real similar mmo competition.

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Originally by: Astria Tiphareth

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No it isn't. After the changes, people will still fight, scam, suicide, pirate, mine, build, trade, smack, and whine. All of the above is pretty much PvP in one form or another.

The irony is that a lot of stupid people think CCP are listening to whines, when anyone intelligent and observant would note that actually CCP does their own thing, to their own tune, and don't give a damn when people whine. Whining often precedes a change because enough people notice a problem to complain about it. All MMOs ever have followed this cycle - heck you don't need to believe me, read about it, there are plenty of books about long-term game design.

By comparison, I could list a few whines that have never been touched by CCP and yet are continuously repeated on here, and I could find plenty more after a while on EVE search:
Change NPC corps
Move ice out of high-sec
Move level 4 missions out of high-sec
Boost low-sec rewards
Make wardecs follow people
Force people to stay in corps that are decced
Change AFK cloaking
Stop Titans from blobbing
Prevent gatecamps
Prevent WTZ
Remove insurance
Stop logoffski tactics
Make it so that when I hit this button, I instantly win instead of having to think!

Ok, so the last one is made up, but it summarises most complaints in one way or another. EVE is a thinking person's game. Sometimes this thought is how to adapt when CCP change something.

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Originally by: Gretzel

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What are peoples honest opinions of EVE going care bear. Just wondering if this is time to jump ship.

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Originally by: Esmenet

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Its not just the current nerf but the change in attitude from CCP, and what they say about other things. I dont want to play a game where high sec is a place for isk generation in perfect safety and low sec/0.0 is some sort of wow type battlegrounds. But thats where the game is heading.

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Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

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heh the changes as stated make highsec more than a few percent safer. unless you are a complete and total idiot.

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Originally by: Gamesguy

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the suicide ganking is merely an isk farming activity.

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Originally by: Gretzel

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What are peoples honest opinions of EVE going care bear. Just wondering if this is time to jump ship.

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Originally by: Venkul Mul

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No.

It is curbing a little the carebear part of the ganking community with the insurance change.

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Originally by: Steve Hawkings

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Originally by: Gretzel

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What are peoples honest opinions of EVE going care bear. Just wondering if this is time to jump ship.

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You would jump ship on the basis of other peoples opinions ?

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Originally by: Zeba

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Insurance being totally axed for ship losses to Concord might be a bit harsh but really if your gonna make a few billion off the loot of a ganked freighter you can afford the cost of the gank. Saying that I think insurance on suicide ganks should be cut to about 40% of the normal platinum payout. That way it still hurts if the good lootz get destroyed but not enought to make the op a total loss. But hey thats why we have the forums and can voice our opinions at will.

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Originally by: Gamesguy

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the suicide ganking is merely an isk farming activity.

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Originally by: Abrazzar

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Different security areas catering for different styles of play, allowing a maximum diversity of customers to play on the same server.

If it's not hardcore enough for you, you are in the wrong place.

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Originally by: Gretzel

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What are peoples honest opinions of EVE going care bear. Just wondering if this is time to jump ship.

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Originally by: Gretzel

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What are peoples honest opinions of EVE going care bear. Just wondering if this is time to jump ship.

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Originally by: Jenna Shame

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This is looking like it has real possibility to be the next ship.

Of course Age of Conan did too, and that has just been a massive incompetence fest.

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Originally by: Tarminic

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Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.

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Originally by: Cailais

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Well if the definition of a 'carebear' is carrying out an activity with no risk...

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Originally by: Loyal Servant

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CCP has NO LOYALTIES to anyone but their bottom line.
The marketing people are telling them they need new players because the old players have already spent their money and recruited their friends so there is no more cashflow to be had from this group.

So, what everyone perceives as then listening to the 'carebear whines' is the marketing people telling them that new players are not coming into the game because they are getting manhandled by the old players.

This is the same reason that isk buyers are not dealt with and we have isk farmers logged in by the thousands.

Remember - anything to make the numbers look good.
The roughly 2,000 known isk farmers (there are more we don't know about!) that are logged in on a daily basis pad the numbers and the changes geared towards making it nearly impossible to get at them in NPC corps, as well as new players make eve very attractive for the casual 2 night a week player.

This is the cash they want.... and right now eve is not a game that can be played casually.

Keep this in mind when you make your choice to come or go.
The only way to force someones hand in this world is to not hand them the cash.
So, remember guys and gals... if you don't like the change you can leave.
However, make sure you get a LOT of people to leave or it will never change.
1 guy leaving is not enough, it has to be 10,000 people leaving.

Think.... this is a business and the only thing that matters is money - not service or your perception of service.

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Originally by: Drykor

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Or the 'intelligent' people could see that MOST of the things you listed would actually make the game harsher. And CCP barely ever made the game harsher after it went easier.

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Originally by: Drykor

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So realistically you could say that Eve is catering to an easier less hardcore style of playing throughout the time.

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Originally by: Gretzel

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What are peoples honest opinions of EVE going care bear. Just wondering if this is time to jump ship.

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Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake

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I think this is a long term great move, it should 'infuse' the game with new players and fresh ideas! Eve's current PvP ruleset is not intended for the masses and with their current PvP state they will NEVER gain the subscription numbers other MMO's have gained nor will they be able to compete with other newer upcoming MMO releases.

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Originally by: Nidda Coldbrew

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To answer the OP's question - Yes it is. It's not even debatable. Ask any player who has been around 3 or 4 years if Eve was a harsher, meaner place then or now. And guess what, it also has a lot more subscribers now than it did back in "the good old days". So guess what the future holds?

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Originally by: Nidda Coldbrew

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You want to make Eve less carebear? Admit insurance was a flawed idea that you developed with good intentions and get rid of it. Your good intentions with insurance is doing the game far more harm than good with it's unintended consequences. Not that it will happen... the howls of the fake pvper's who like their painless Counterstrike like pvp would be epic.

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Originally by: Ruze

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I just hope their marketing department doesn't hold to the same innane belief that you seem to hold to. I hope they continue to market to those of us who want solid, freeform gameplay that involves players against one another. Hoping, however, doesn't relieve others of the same ignorant notions that 'businesses are only after money' and 'more is better.'

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Originally by: Astria Tiphareth

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Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 12/08/2008 14:35:49

Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake

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I think this is a long term great move, it should 'infuse' the game with new players and fresh ideas! Eve's current PvP ruleset is not intended for the masses and with their current PvP state they will NEVER gain the subscription numbers other MMO's have gained nor will they be able to compete with other newer upcoming MMO releases.

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This I would have to disagree with. I'd rather EVE retains an niche element by appealing to a subsection that actually wish to think and truly compete in some/all ways (depending on sector) compared to other mainstream MMOs (I'm not say you personally don't do that, just the tone of your post). Nonetheless my previous point stands that there has to be some adaptation, you can't freeze the game and say 'there, love it or hate it' because that doesn't sell subscriptions. You have to try and stay true to a vision whilst ensuring that people find the game accessible enough to keep paying. That vision is CCP's, not necessarily that of every player that has an opinion about it.

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Originally by: Gretzel

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What are peoples honest opinions of EVE going care bear. Just wondering if this is time to jump ship.

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Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake

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Well like it or not CCP is already hard trucking looking for a higher subscriber base. A great example is seeing an Eve-Online commercial on the Sci-Fi channel, i mean if that doesnt scream MORE MORE MORE then i dont know what will! And as much as i hate to say it, CCP will have to cater to the masses in order to attract more players and that means getting way from its (as you called it) 'niche' subsection and more mainstream and player friendly.

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Originally by: Ruze

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In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with people finding out they don't like EvE.

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Originally by: Ruze

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Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake

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Well like it or not CCP is already hard trucking looking for a higher subscriber base. A great example is seeing an Eve-Online commercial on the Sci-Fi channel, i mean if that doesnt scream MORE MORE MORE then i dont know what will! And as much as i hate to say it, CCP will have to cater to the masses in order to attract more players and that means getting way from its (as you called it) 'niche' subsection and more mainstream and player friendly.

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But you seem to refuse to accept that EvE attracts more players each day, without yet 'catering to the masses', so to speak. Their market so far has grown from word of mouth, etc. As it continues to grow and is marketed better, it will get many thousands of players who come on, see that they don't like EvE, then leave.

But there will always be that strong percentage who come online, see how EvE is different, rise to the challenge, and stay. I'm hoping that CCP doesn't bend to 'keep' that already fickle player surge.

In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with people finding out they don't like EvE. You can't please everyone.

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Originally by: Gretzel

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What are peoples honest opinions of EVE going care bear. Just wondering if this is time to jump ship.

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL

Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake

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I never said Eve doesnt attract players, its their retention. i would dare say perhaps 3 out of 10 players that use the trial period to test eve stay while the rest leave, thats not a good number to increase subscription and will be hard to see eve put out quality expansions, fix bugs and continue to invest in a lag free fleet combat if they can not staff enough developers to do so.

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Originally by: Cailais

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Well if the definition of a 'carebear' is carrying out an activity with no risk then surely -

Suiciding freighters

and

Deccing helpless nubs

Must fall into the carebear domain. No?

C.

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Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake

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Originally by: Ruze

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Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake

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Well like it or not CCP is already hard trucking looking for a higher subscriber base. A great example is seeing an Eve-Online commercial on the Sci-Fi channel, i mean if that doesnt scream MORE MORE MORE then i dont know what will! And as much as i hate to say it, CCP will have to cater to the masses in order to attract more players and that means getting way from its (as you called it) 'niche' subsection and more mainstream and player friendly.

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But you seem to refuse to accept that EvE attracts more players each day, without yet 'catering to the masses', so to speak. Their market so far has grown from word of mouth, etc. As it continues to grow and is marketed better, it will get many thousands of players who come on, see that they don't like EvE, then leave.

But there will always be that strong percentage who come online, see how EvE is different, rise to the challenge, and stay. I'm hoping that CCP doesn't bend to 'keep' that already fickle player surge.

In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with people finding out they don't like EvE. You can't please everyone.

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I never said Eve doesnt attract players, its their retention. i would dare say perhaps 3 out of 10 players that use the trial period to test eve stay while the rest leave, thats not a good number to increase subscription and will be hard to see eve put out quality expansions, fix bugs and continue to invest in a lag free fleet combat if they can not staff enough developers to do so.

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Originally by: Lt Angus

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Originally by: Cailais

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Well if the definition of a 'carebear' is carrying out an activity with no risk then surely -

Suiciding freighters

and

Deccing helpless nubs

Must fall into the carebear domain. No?

C.

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how you guys changed the definition of carebear to something so unrelated is behond me, i miss the good old days

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Originally by: Sergeant Spot

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At any time that players devise an effectively risk and/or cost free method of shooting other players, it has been nerfed, and will be nerfed.

If you can't understand that, you are an idiot.
If you don't approve of that, you are an idiot.

Claiming risk/cost free methods of shooting other folks are not risk/cost free also means that you are an idiot.

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Originally by: Venkul Mul

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No.

It is curbing a little the carebear part of the ganking community with the insurance change.

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How about curbing the carebear part of the carebear community for a change? They definitely have it way too easy.

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Originally by: Gamesguy

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the suicide ganking is merely an isk farming activity.

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Originally by: Roguehalo

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Can you nano Titans?

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Originally by: Jim McGregor

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Edited by: Jim McGregor on 12/08/2008 17:06:32

Yes, its going care bear. A dev blog called "Serious Security", signing off with "Be safe out there!"... I have nothing personally against CCP Fear, but I think it shows where CCP are heading.

Eve is supposed to be a war game. Its like if Russia were to attack Georgian civilians and some alien race went in and destroyed their tanks....sigh.

In war, not only enemy soldiers get shot at. Civilians get killed in suicide attacks or other attacks. This is horrible in real life, but its exciting and fun in a computer game.

But we who thinks so are in a minority, I know.

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Originally by: Cyd Vicious

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No EvE can't go care bear.

We need gankers, Pirates and war dec corps. The carebears with there endless mining and missionning, They rarely lose a ship and modules whitch is keeping injecting ISK into the market. Thats where pirates, gankers and war dec corp comes in play. The carebear got it easy in empire but not to easy so everything is in balance, to keep the market running.

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Originally by: Ruze

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Some people just don't believe in the 'slow and steady' principle anymore. Hopefully CCP still does.

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Originally by: Crazy Tasty

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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I'm worried it is.

Three-fold suicide gank nerf (insurance, plus faster concord response, plus increased sec hits), expected wardec nerf (with justifications like 'defenders lack control in the war' and 'wardecs are a pay for grief system'), all point out to EvE developers giving up the original idea and abandoning a lot of the ideas which were tossed about in the past even as part of user manual (security is your own responsibility,PvP-centric, risk/reward, etc).

There's few other ships to jump to, unfortunately.

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Qft. Been playing for about 2 years and I've seen it happen a little at a time, some things not even publicly acknowledged (for example, my sig).

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Originally by: Cailais

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Well if the definition of a 'carebear' is carrying out an activity with no risk...

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Originally by: Lucy'Lastic

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Edited by: Lucy''Lastic on 12/08/2008 17:34:48

Originally by: Ruze

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Some people just don't believe in the 'slow and steady' principle anymore. Hopefully CCP still does.

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Yes this makes perfect sense. CCP should limit the amount of new accounts that sign up every month in order for the game not to get too big too quickly.

They should also stop people who already have an account opening a new one because they will be affecting the quota of 'new' of players that CCP have deemed to be a 'slow and steady' increase and 'good for business'.

Infact they should stop all new subs until they have more hardware in place to support them. They could have a self imposed cap of 250k subscribers.

This would improve your gaming experience how?

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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I'm worried it is.

Three-fold suicide gank nerf (insurance, plus faster concord response, plus increased sec hits), expected wardec nerf (with justifications like 'defenders lack control in the war' and 'wardecs are a pay for grief system'), all point out to EvE developers giving up the original idea and abandoning a lot of the ideas which were tossed about in the past even as part of user manual (security is your own responsibility,PvP-centric, risk/reward, etc).

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Quote:

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Dev Blog "Serious Security":

Since the beginning of EVE, security penalties have been flat throughout every region of space (excluding 0.0). It has basically meant that the "security level" of a system means nothing, as the same penalty goes in all spaces. Although CONCORD has faster response times in the higher securities, it has not changed the fact that penalties are the same.

Through our research, we discovered that the balance between gaining standing and losing it was not in line with our intentions. It is too easy to gain back lost standing, taking only a few days to erase all the damage done by ganking. This is about to change.

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Originally by: Gretzel

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What are peoples honest opinions of EVE going care bear. Just wondering if this is time to jump ship.

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Originally by: Black Scorpio

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And what has actually changed your camping Odelulf and Bosena in your usual pack? Not much i think.. And since you're all -10 anyway, what do you care about sec hit changes?

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Originally by: Zeba

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Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

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i wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with the nano nerf, just saying it was a bit strong.

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And since when have you guys been flying nanos? Drakes,Megas, Geddons and Command ships are all I've ever seen on your camps? Or have you branched out since my days at Friggi? Never quite took you as the hero type to take up causes that didn't effect you.

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Edited by: Cpt Branko on 13/08/2008 00:08:21

Originally by: Black Scorpio

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And what has actually changed your camping Odelulf and Bosena in your usual pack? Not much i think.. And since you're all -10 anyway, what do you care about sec hit changes?

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You know the old one, which would, in EvE, go:
First they came for the suicide gankers, but I wasn't a suicide ganker and lived in low-sec so I said nothing.

Then they came for the wardeccers, but I wasn't a mercenary and didn't participate in wars so I said nothing.

Then they came for low-sec, and there was nobody left to say anything.

Basically, pirate solidarity.

Naturally the changes don't impact low-sec pirates directly (although, indirectly, they do, of course - making high-sec even safer at same profit rates naturally dissuades people from looking elsewhere for money), but the carebearisation of EvE will get us all in the end if it continues at this rate.

Furthermore, I find that dev blogs ending with 'be safe' are repulsive. I much preffered the 'have fun shooting each other in the face' endings of dev blogs

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Originally by: Le Skunk

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I said it at the time, we are on a slippery slope here unless the evil elements of CCP who are currently in ascension can be stopped by the righteous few devs.

They need to organise and reach out to each other! I have faith that good MUST prevail, and the money men will be ejected.SKUNK

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Originally by: Astria Tiphareth

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I do find it amusing that people are already complaining about changes they've never even seen (the only mention of changes to wardecs was that they wish to examine it - there have been no dev blogs or announcements about it or what they actually intend). I stick to my original point that I think a lot of veterans are imposing their own view of EVE over the actual CCP vision and getting annoyed that how dare CCP not listen to them.

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Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette

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So, you would rather us wait until CCP implements the proposed changes (Yes, there are proposed changes. Read the CSM forums why don't you) and then complain that the changes did, in fact, ruin the game? Isn't it better to head off the crap changes before they are implemented?

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Originally by: Astria Tiphareth

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I read the forums all the time and there's nothing concrete.

We'd best start complaining about carrier and titan changes then, again, because they're going to change them (read the dev announcements and interviews, why don't you). I see no wave of annoyed veterans complaining about that. Clearly they don't pay much attention - or they're waiting to see what is actually proposed.

If you stopped assuming everyone around you is an idiot, people might actually listen to you.

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Originally by: CSM forums

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Noah (CCP) believes that the current wardec system amounts to a pay-to-grief system, and that CCP is interested in making war declarations deeper by adding mechanics such as victory conditions that would eventually end wars. Valentijn (CSM Dierdra Vaal) commented that under the current system, the defender has no control over the war and the attacker can keep it up indefinitely as long as they keep paying the bills. He also observed that there currently is no determined end goal to the war itself.

Matt (CCP) stated that wardecs are necessary so corporations can attack each otherÆs logistic chains in Empire, but that there are often wars started without reason, simply to get random victims to gank and grief. The system should be balanced so that the first aspect is not hindered while the second aspect is deterred.

Eva (CSM Ankhesentapemkah) said that in any MMO, players should be allowed to group and organize in relative safety, while in Eve this is deterred as grouping up makes you a target to attack. There is no safe way for players to get started in small scale groups this way. Sean (CSM Darius Johnson) suggested that it might be an option to scale consequences based on the sizes of the warring corporations.

Various CSM members suggested to allow corporations to auction off the war to mercenaries, who would from that point on participate in the war. CCP understands that the current system needs work and thinks that involving mercenaries shows promise. No solid solution has been come up with but the issue is on the agenda

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Originally by: Astria Tiphareth

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I think the notion of whining about stuff that hasn't even got off the drawing board is just plain dumb. Besides, your track record on posting shows you will complain about anything that doesn't fit your polarised view, so the notion of an actual debate on the subject is pretty pointless.

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Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette

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In this post, CCP equates war deccing to griefing. They claim the defender doesn't have control of the war (duh) and that some wars are started without reason. You are correct that there is no concrete 'solutions', but the formulation of a 'problem' shows that CCP thinking has had a significant change in doctrine. THIS is what we complain about. THIS is what scares both pvper and industrialist. THIS is why you see all these threads on the forums.
...
That's a nice ad hominem. Likewise, your posting history shows you having a polarized view, so debating this with you is fairly pointless as well. However, since I'm NOT debating this with you, but with the EvE community, I'll post anyway.

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