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An exploit of game mechanics or just a very clever gank?

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Solomon XI Hoist The Colors.	Posted - 2008.08.13 21:52:00 - [1] Ok, before I start, I want to say for the record this is not a whine post. Last night while running a Level-4 mission, both my girl and I were probed out. Shortly there-after, said prober left and a Gila appeared and began to salvage and loot our wrecks. Being that I was in a salvager, I went back to the station and undocked in my Megathron Navy Issue (was in a mission fit, wasn't expecting what happened) and went to the mission area. Upon engaging said Gila, I was warp-scrambled and webbed (I know I was in deep crap now). Two buddies came into the mission. A Basilisk and a Raven. However neither one of those guys had aggro. Only the Gila pilot. So here I am webbed, warp-scrambled, and staring Death in the eyes. I know what's coming. I knew it from the second that warp-scrambler went on me. The Gila pilot EJECTS as does the pilot from the Raven. Now I can no longer shoot the Gila OR the Raven OR the pod or I risk Concord action. So all I can do is wait. I try to warp out because there was a temporary pause in the warp scrambling but said Basilisk was a nano Basilisk and decided to bump me. Hehe. Clever, eh? Anyhow the original pilot I aggressed (Gila) now pops into said Raven and the Raven becomes bliny red. The Basilisk starts to rep the Raven from my assault and then also goes blinky red. I attempt to engage the Basilisk and the Raven tracking disrupts me. I died. A painful death. My backup (Dominix) also died. =( So was this an exploit? Or a clever gank? Using a Gila to aggro, having buddies come in, swapping ships (during which time I cannot engage) and whatnot? Just looking for some thoughts. So I lost a True Sansha Navy Issue Mega. Big deal. Just looking for your thoughts. ~Solo Hoist The Colors. (CEO)
Xonkra Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.13 21:57:00 - [2] mission fit navy mega > common sense --------- Founder of the Hug-a-troll initiative Hug a forum troll because they can probably use it !
Kahega Amielden Minmatar 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:03:00 - [3] Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 13/08/2008 22:03:43 All that happened was that he had corpmates bring another ship to him. Swapping ships in space is not an exploit. That's INCREDIBLY ****ing crafty, though.
Solomon XI Hoist The Colors.	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:04:00 - [4] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 13/08/2008 22:03:43 All that happened was that he had corpmates bring another ship to him. Swapping ships in space is not an exploit. That's INCREDIBLY ****ing crafty, though. Catch: They were not all in the same corp. ~Solo Hoist The Colors. (CEO)
Kahega Amielden Minmatar 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:07:00 - [5] Meh. Still doesn't matter. He had friends bringing him a ship.
Thingymawotzit	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:08:00 - [6] Tbh you deserved it regardless of whether its an exploit or not. Was a dumb idea taking a navy mega in there and secondly not doing enough damage to kill a gila before his support comes in.
Solomon XI Hoist The Colors.	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:11:00 - [7] Aye. I know that, in itself, is not an exploit. The part I am finding questionable is this: I had engaged the Gila and then his buddies (Basilisk/Raven) showed up. Said guy in Gila ejected from the Gila (thus meaning I could no longer shoot at the Gila nor the pilots pod) and had to disengage. During that time, I could not do anything to prevent the gank. I had nothing to shoot at. The Raven pilot ejected and said Gila pilot took over the Raven. Then the Raven went blinky-red on me. So my question -- and the part I think is a possible exploit -- is the fact he ejected to avoid combat. I couldn't do anything during that time. ~Solo Hoist The Colors. (CEO)
Solomon XI Hoist The Colors.	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:11:00 - [8] Originally by: Thingymawotzit Tbh you deserved it regardless of whether its an exploit or not. Was a dumb idea taking a navy mega in there and secondly not doing enough damage to kill a gila before his support comes in. Take your flames elsewhere. ~Solo Hoist The Colors. (CEO)
Eternal Error Exitus Acta Probant	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:18:00 - [9] Pretty clever on their part, and really dumb on yours. If in any doubt, just petition it -- that will get you a better response than anything here. In the meantime, you fail.
Solomon XI Hoist The Colors.	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:25:00 - [10] Originally by: Eternal Error Pretty clever on their part, and really dumb on yours. If in any doubt, just petition it -- that will get you a better response than anything here. In the meantime, you fail. Yep. That pretty much explains it. I was expecting to engage a Gila and only a Gila. Wasn't expecting this at all. And said Gila was orbiting me with a MWD. My tracking was good. But not THAT good. Lol. Was fail on my part for bringing out the Mega. I know this.
Kavu Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:27:00 - [11] Edited by: Kavu on 13/08/2008 22:33:33 just target the empty ships then no one can get into them.... you cant board a targeted ship, call up 2 friends and blam you got a free gila and raven
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:28:00 - [12] That was a pretty damn sweet gank. Sol, the bad news is a think your gonna find that is not an exploit, though it may be deemed one if it becomes frequently used in todays game climate... I think in this particular case, having never really heard of that particular use of game mechanics, CCP may in fact say "good job for planning that" to the guys who actually ganked you. Also, never undock with the possibility of any form of aggression (can thieves included) without a combat fit (The guy stole from you, right in your face, you kinda tried to use the Mega as a show of force, kinda "F-OFF NAVY MEGA" thing), ESPECIALLY on a navy issue ship, but I'm pretty sure you've just been made aware of that. All in all, I'd give it a clever gank factor of 8/10
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:35:00 - [13] Originally by: Kavu Edited by: Kavu on 13/08/2008 22:33:33 just target the empty ships then no one can get into them.... you cant board a targeted ship, call up 2 friends and blam you got a free gila and raven See this, read this, learn from guys like this
Solomon XI Hoist The Colors.	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:39:00 - [14] Edited by: Solomon XI on 13/08/2008 22:42:44 Edited by: Solomon XI on 13/08/2008 22:42:13 Edited by: Solomon XI on 13/08/2008 22:39:54 Originally by: Sebea That was a pretty damn sweet gank. Sol, the bad news is a think your gonna find that is not an exploit, though it may be deemed one if it becomes frequently used in todays game climate... I think in this particular case, having never really heard of that particular use of game mechanics, CCP may in fact say "good job for planning that" to the guys who actually ganked you. Also, never undock with the possibility of any form of aggression (can thieves included) without a combat fit (The guy stole from you, right in your face, you kinda tried to use the Mega as a show of force, kinda "F-OFF NAVY MEGA" thing), ESPECIALLY on a navy issue ship, but I'm pretty sure you've just been made aware of that. All in all, I'd give it a clever gank factor of 8/10 Yeah. It was a mistake on my part for sure. It was tanked Therm/Kin and like I said, I was expecting just to engage a Gila. Had both my girls Domi and my Mega been fit for PvP properly, they all would've died. There's no doubt about that. It was my mistake for undocking in it. Lol. Also I didn't know if you target an empty ship -- that they can't get into it. That's a new one on me and one I wish I knew about. Note: It wasn't about a show of force. I was in a rush because I want to kill the Gila and it was all I had in the system. I was indeed sad to see that my Deimos and Myrmidon were two jumps away. ~Solo Hoist The Colors. (CEO)
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:40:00 - [15] if logging out in space is an intended game mechanic I can't see switching ships in space being illegal
Solomon XI Hoist The Colors.	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:41:00 - [16] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton if logging out in space is an intended game mechanic I can't see switching ships in space being illegal Switching ships in space isn't illegal and is fair. It's switching ships during PvP to avoid aggro that is questionable. Re-read. ~Solo Hoist The Colors. (CEO)
Amberly Coteaz Amarr The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:45:00 - [17] Originally by: Kavu Edited by: Kavu on 13/08/2008 22:33:33 just target the empty ships then no one can get into them.... you cant board a targeted ship, call up 2 friends and blam you got a free gila and raven If you find yourself in a fair fight, something went wrong Originally by: Patch86 OK people, Amberly Coteaz has won life for the time being. Everyone go home and wait for the round reset.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:47:00 - [18] His complaint is that he couldn't do anything while the switch was going on, as the aggression timer doesn't apply to pods. That might be a legitimate complaint, although I doubt it would change much since chances are his friends brought the battleship quite close to him to minimize downtime.
Solomon XI Hoist The Colors.	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:50:00 - [19] Originally by: Kahega Amielden His complaint is that he couldn't do anything while the switch was going on, as the aggression timer doesn't apply to pods. That might be a legitimate complaint, although I doubt it would change much since chances are his friends brought the battleship quite close to him to minimize downtime. Exactly. The timer also doesn't apply to ships that are un-piloted. So I couldn't do anything to defend myself for about 45 seconds. ~Solo Hoist The Colors. (CEO)
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:55:00 - [20] Originally by: Solomon XI Ok, before I start, I want to say for the record this is not a whine post.
VicturusTeSaluto Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.08.13 23:08:00 - [21] mission runners are so clueless. If you don't understand the combat mechanics, then don't take any action. however,
Gruxella Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2008.08.13 23:10:00 - [22] Edited by: Gruxella on 13/08/2008 23:10:25 if someone had hopped into the gila resulting in you getting concorded it would have been an exploit. The best thing you could have done was stay aligned. As soon as he left the gila the point dropped and he would have had to relock you in the raven. They could have bumped you out of alignment of course but no they did not exploit. It's borderline to me personally but eve is very black and white and they didn't break the rules. edit: you can continue to shoot the gila after he ejects. If someone else hops in it. That's the exploit. ---- VHI - We Haul Your Cargo For Free ---- We Miss you Red 7.
Jarek Naumen Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.08.13 23:11:00 - [23] Originally by: Kahega Amielden His complaint is that he couldn't do anything while the switch was going on, as the aggression timer doesn't apply to pods. That might be a legitimate complaint, although I doubt it would change much since chances are his friends brought the battleship quite close to him to minimize downtime. However that is not true. As someone already mentioned very correctly, he could've TARGETED the Gila and Raven. Thus making both pilots unable to board them. In this case the only thing the aggressors could've done is: 1. Basilisk tries to keep you bumped 2. The 2 other pilots would have to go away and grab some other ships before aggression runs out. Actually only 1 of them had aggression rights if i understood right. 3. Meanwhile you can call in friends to grab the Gila + Raven
Solomon XI Hoist The Colors.	Posted - 2008.08.13 23:13:00 - [24] Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto mission runners are so clueless. If you don't understand the combat mechanics, then don't take any action. however, Hehe I'm not exactly a mission runner. I jsut run them from time to time to rebuild my wallet. Then I go back into low/null. ~Solo Hoist The Colors. (CEO)
SurrenderMonkey	Posted - 2008.08.13 23:14:00 - [25] That is pretty sweet, but I think it would be far more appropriate if the Gila (in this case) remained a legal target despite the fact that the pilot ejected.
doctorstupid2 The Accursed	Posted - 2008.08.13 23:17:00 - [26] Originally by: Jarek Naumen Originally by: Kahega Amielden His complaint is that he couldn't do anything while the switch was going on, as the aggression timer doesn't apply to pods. That might be a legitimate complaint, although I doubt it would change much since chances are his friends brought the battleship quite close to him to minimize downtime. However that is not true. As someone already mentioned very correctly, he could've TARGETED the Gila and Raven. Thus making both pilots unable to board them. In this case the only thing the aggressors could've done is: 1. Basilisk tries to keep you bumped 2. The 2 other pilots would have to go away and grab some other ships before aggression runs out. Actually only 1 of them had aggression rights if i understood right. 3. Meanwhile you can call in friends to grab the Gila + Raven As I recall you are only unable to board a ship that doesn't belong to you while it's targeted, so both pilots could have reboarded their original ships, and relied on the basilisk repping the gila to kill the navy mega. There is of course a 30s session change timer to reboard, so bumping aside, warping becomes possible. It's not the first, or last, time we'll hear about mid-fight ship swaps. Abusive \| Deadspace \| Deadspace2
Solomon XI Hoist The Colors.	Posted - 2008.08.13 23:18:00 - [27] Alright. I had this under petition and just received a reply. The GM's officially stated that this is not an exploit and is intended game mechanics. RIP Navy Issue Megathron ~Solo Hoist The Colors. (CEO)
Solomon XI Hoist The Colors.	Posted - 2008.08.13 23:23:00 - [28] Edited by: Solomon XI on 13/08/2008 23:23:58 During the ship swap, they were no threat to me. That's the reasoning, apparently. Even though I was aggro'd. Still in discussions with a GM... ~Solo Hoist The Colors. (CEO)
Clair Bear Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.08.13 23:31:00 - [29] How innteresting. I know that having buddies bring ships to a -10 red flashy for suiciding victims in highsec was ruled an exploit. I just wonder where the line is...
amarrly Amarr Servant's of order	Posted - 2008.08.13 23:54:00 - [30] Edited by: amarrly on 13/08/2008 23:54:26 So you say the basilisk got aggro repping the raven, what happened to the basilisk , he just carry on blinking, or was this in hi sec? and if he did aggro, why did'nt concord pop him. and if it was'nt in hi sec and your feeling revengeful why did'nt you carry on killing the gila then work on the raven with your domi back up? Or what is the rules with logistics in hi sec now, last time i used them you did'nt get aggro at all.

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