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Fleet Warpsujarento
State Protectorate Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2012.03.24 01:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
-Faction Warfare is in lowsec. -Piracy is in lowsec. -Faction Warfare players fight pirates. (Often more than they fight
Therefore, not being able to dock puts FW players at a disadvantage against pirates. Therefore, there is a new incentive to leave faction warfare to be better at PvP.
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Tahna Rouspel
BWE Special Forces Ascendance.
86
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Posted - 2012.03.24 01:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
I believe it's meant to prevent enemy faction in faction warfare from docking. So neutral players and pirates wouldn't be affected. I might be wrong though. |

Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
378
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Posted - 2012.03.24 01:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
Assuming you're the FW player who cannot dock in the system you want to roam in, consider fighting for your faction to re-capture that system. That's the whole point of the changes to occupancy consequences, to get people to want to fight for systems instead of aimlessly roam around.
Assuming you're the pirate, you wouldn't be affected by the docking restrictions.
"Neutrals can still dock. Just so we understand."
--CCP Ytterbium
EDIT; If you don't want to fight for systems, FW isn't the place to be. There are other places in the game that provide aimless PvP. Piracy, wardecs, 0.0 |

Souvera Corvus
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
16
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Posted - 2012.03.24 01:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Initial reaction is that it'll make fights a bit harder to come by as factions stick to their own systems.
Haven't seen the detail in which the devil is concealed though. |

JamesCLK
Lone Star Exploration Lone Star Partners
87
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Posted - 2012.03.24 01:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tahna Rouspel wrote:I believe it's meant to prevent enemy faction in faction warfare from docking. So neutral players and pirates wouldn't be affected. I might be wrong though.
Nope, you're pretty much right. There would probably be restrictions to prevent just jumping militias (cooldown timer or sommit) but apart from that neutrals aren't affected. The idea there is that the FW guys holding the system should promote neutral traders to supply their stations- or sommit like that. |

Fleet Warpsujarento
State Protectorate Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2012.03.24 01:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tahna Rouspel wrote:I believe it's meant to prevent enemy faction in faction warfare from docking. So neutral players and pirates wouldn't be affected. I might be wrong though.
Yes, therefore pirates can dock, but enemy FW cannot. That makes it far more difficult to fight in enemy space. Pirates do not have this disadvantage.
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Magnus Orin
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
77
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Posted - 2012.03.24 01:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Standings prevent us Nullsec players from docking in most stations. Don't see us QQing and running to high or low sec. |

Fleet Warpsujarento
State Protectorate Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2012.03.24 01:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Magnus Orin wrote:Standings prevent us Nullsec players from docking in most stations. Don't see us QQing and running to high or low sec.
But in nullsec you can't just leave your alliance and instantly gain access to enemy stations. The problem is that it creates an incentive to leave militias. |

Simca Develon
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
17
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Posted - 2012.03.24 02:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:Magnus Orin wrote:Standings prevent us Nullsec players from docking in most stations. Don't see us QQing and running to high or low sec. But in nullsec you can't just leave your alliance and instantly gain access to enemy stations. The problem is that it creates an incentive to leave militias.
That will happen I'm sure. It's point is to make you actually work to take/retake systems. It gives you a reason to do so. Imagine if you did take the system and suddenly they can't dock up. That's what you should be worried about doing not whining because you can't dock in an enemy station. Pirates will be able to dock, but I don't think that gives them any real advantage.
Je suis le commencement de votre fin. |

Tobiaz
Spacerats
47
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Posted - 2012.03.24 02:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Being able to dock in stations belonging to a Faction that really hate you is also stupid. The way stations are totally randomly distributed over all Factions is also stupid. http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif
How about fixing image-linking on the forums, CCP? I want to see signatures! |
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Fleet Warpsujarento
State Protectorate Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2012.03.24 02:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Simca Develon wrote:Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:Magnus Orin wrote:Standings prevent us Nullsec players from docking in most stations. Don't see us QQing and running to high or low sec. But in nullsec you can't just leave your alliance and instantly gain access to enemy stations. The problem is that it creates an incentive to leave militias. That will happen I'm sure. It's point is to make you actually work to take/retake systems. It gives you a reason to do so. Imagine if you did take the system and suddenly they can't dock up. That's what you should be worried about doing not whining because you can't dock in an enemy station. Pirates will be able to dock, but I don't think that gives them any real advantage.
You might work hard to get the systems back. Or you might just quit militia. Or not joint it in the first place. |

Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
379
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Posted - 2012.03.24 02:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:Simca Develon wrote:Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:Magnus Orin wrote:Standings prevent us Nullsec players from docking in most stations. Don't see us QQing and running to high or low sec. But in nullsec you can't just leave your alliance and instantly gain access to enemy stations. The problem is that it creates an incentive to leave militias. That will happen I'm sure. It's point is to make you actually work to take/retake systems. It gives you a reason to do so. Imagine if you did take the system and suddenly they can't dock up. That's what you should be worried about doing not whining because you can't dock in an enemy station. Pirates will be able to dock, but I don't think that gives them any real advantage. You might work hard to get the systems back. Or you might just quit militia. Or not joint it in the first place.
Like I said, if you're not willing to fight for systems, just become the pirate/white-knight. You could also try flying in places where you already own the station.
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Magnus Orin
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
77
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Posted - 2012.03.24 02:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:Simca Develon wrote:Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:Magnus Orin wrote:Standings prevent us Nullsec players from docking in most stations. Don't see us QQing and running to high or low sec. But in nullsec you can't just leave your alliance and instantly gain access to enemy stations. The problem is that it creates an incentive to leave militias. That will happen I'm sure. It's point is to make you actually work to take/retake systems. It gives you a reason to do so. Imagine if you did take the system and suddenly they can't dock up. That's what you should be worried about doing not whining because you can't dock in an enemy station. Pirates will be able to dock, but I don't think that gives them any real advantage. You might work hard to get the systems back. Or you might just quit militia. Or not joint it in the first place.
No, that's absolutely ridiculous.
That's like saying I'm gonna leave WI. because I cannot dock in Raiden.'s or IRC's stations, or that I would choose not to move to 0.0 in the first place because of that 'limitation'.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong White-Lotus
467
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Posted - 2012.03.24 02:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:-Faction Warfare is in lowsec. -Piracy is in lowsec. -Faction Warfare players fight pirates. (Often more than they fight
Therefore, not being able to dock puts FW players at a disadvantage against pirates. Therefore, there is a new incentive to leave faction warfare to be better at PvP.
so have the faction police, who CAN be defeated, spawn if prates attack you.
If i attack a pirate, and then he attacks back we have a fight.
If he attacks me 1st, 5 battleships spawn for me and help me fight. A large blob will easily defeat the NPCs, but the FW police would kill solo piracy in FW space. And to me, that would be a GOOD THING. FW should NOT be like 0.0 space, that's what 0.0 space is for. We need to increase the stuff you can do in the sandbox, not decrease it.
"Quote:But in nullsec you can't just leave your alliance and instantly gain access to enemy stations. The problem is that it creates an incentive to leave militias. "
What? you aren't thinking this through. If you quit militias, why would the ammar suddenly increase your standings towards them? Even if you leave the factional war, you still would have standings far to low to dock in ammar FW systems. That's the current system in 0.0 space. It works just fine. |

Khanh'rhh
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
908
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Posted - 2012.03.24 02:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
OP is kinda right in a way.
If you want to incentivize something, the carrot works better than the stick.
i.e. the rewards for taking a system should be the motivator, not the penalties for not.
I have no doubt you will see people dropping corp to do this and working around the mechanics endlessly, I honestly see it.
It's no different than all the people dropping corps to evade wardecs, etc. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |

Fleet Warpsujarento
State Protectorate Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2012.03.24 02:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
Magnus Orin wrote:Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:Simca Develon wrote:Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:Magnus Orin wrote:Standings prevent us Nullsec players from docking in most stations. Don't see us QQing and running to high or low sec. But in nullsec you can't just leave your alliance and instantly gain access to enemy stations. The problem is that it creates an incentive to leave militias. That will happen I'm sure. It's point is to make you actually work to take/retake systems. It gives you a reason to do so. Imagine if you did take the system and suddenly they can't dock up. That's what you should be worried about doing not whining because you can't dock in an enemy station. Pirates will be able to dock, but I don't think that gives them any real advantage. You might work hard to get the systems back. Or you might just quit militia. Or not joint it in the first place. No, that's absolutely ridiculous. That's like saying I'm gonna leave WI. because I cannot dock in Raiden.'s or IRC's stations, or that I would choose not to move to 0.0 in the first place because of that 'limitation'.
It's not the same, because leaving WI wouldn't let you dock in Raiden's stations, so that incentive isn't actually there.
The real problem is that CCP are trying to increase the number of people who join FW, but implementing mechanics like this does provide an incentive to leave it. |

Fleet Warpsujarento
State Protectorate Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2012.03.24 02:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:-Faction Warfare is in lowsec. -Piracy is in lowsec. -Faction Warfare players fight pirates. (Often more than they fight
Therefore, not being able to dock puts FW players at a disadvantage against pirates. Therefore, there is a new incentive to leave faction warfare to be better at PvP.
so have the faction police, who CAN be defeated, spawn if prates attack you.
I'm gonna stop quoting here because you just broke lowsec.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong White-Lotus
467
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Posted - 2012.03.24 02:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Quote:It's not the same, because leaving WI wouldn't let you dock in Raiden's stations, so that incentive isn't actually there.
The real problem is that CCP are trying to increase the number of people who join FW, but implementing mechanics like this does provide an incentive to leave it.
So quitg FW suddenly increases your standings to the point you can dock with thier stations?
you would have t grind like NUTS to get into the ammar FW systems even when your NOT IN FW, becuase while in FW, your standings with ammar tanked. |

Fleet Warpsujarento
State Protectorate Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2012.03.24 02:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:Quote:It's not the same, because leaving WI wouldn't let you dock in Raiden's stations, so that incentive isn't actually there.
The real problem is that CCP are trying to increase the number of people who join FW, but implementing mechanics like this does provide an incentive to leave it.
So quitg FW suddenly increases your standings to the point you can dock with thier stations? you would have t grind like NUTS to get into the ammar FW systems even when your NOT IN FW, becuase while in FW, your standings with ammar tanked.
As I understood the Fanfest presentation, as long as you aren't an active member of the enemy militia, you would be able to dock regardless of standings. If this is not the case then the idea is even more broken than I thought. |

Ris Dnalor
Black Rebel Rifter Club
258
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Posted - 2012.03.24 02:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote: ... but the FW police would kill solo piracy in FW space. And to me, that would be a GOOD THING.
....MotherMoon wrote: We need to increase the stuff you can do in the sandbox, not decrease it. .
...  Save the Miners! |
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iownuall123
New World Industries Inc StoneGuard Alliance
15
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Posted - 2012.03.24 03:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
if you're in a warzone and you need to get out of the fight, do you go into a hostile controlled area and ask if you can take a quick rest? No, they would shoot you on site and never allow you in. How does that not make sense to people? |

Fleet Warpsujarento
State Protectorate Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2012.03.24 03:28:00 -
[22] - Quote
iownuall123 wrote:if you're in a warzone and you need to get out of the fight, do you go into a hostile controlled area and ask if you can take a quick rest? No, they would shoot you on site and never allow you in. How does that not make sense to people?
You might have a point if Caldari space was filled with exclusively Caldari stations, but it isn't. There are Minmatar and Gallente stations in those systems. Factions that are actually at war with the owners of the space they occupy. The fanfest proposals would apply to the, too.
Not that it would matter, since it's not about some loose sense of consistency with the lore. It's about game design that encourages people to play the game like the developers want them to. In this case they want people to join FW but are introducing disadvantages for doing so. |

None ofthe Above
127
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Posted - 2012.03.24 03:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
Tobiaz wrote:Being able to dock in stations belonging to a Faction that really hate you is also stupid. The way stations are totally randomly distributed over all Factions is also stupid.
I think there is a valid point about docking privs being tied to control of the system.
But I think it should not being restricted to just FW members and shouldn't be all stations in the system. Military stations sure. But there should be relatively neutral or at least civilian stations that would still allow docking (although maybe the effective standing with the could be adjusted).
This all applies pretty equally with NPC Null. Docking in pirate stations seems silly if they hate you, but there should be neutral stations around. Sisters of EVE maybe?
Even None ofthe Above supports Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7! |

None ofthe Above
127
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Posted - 2012.03.24 03:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:iownuall123 wrote:if you're in a warzone and you need to get out of the fight, do you go into a hostile controlled area and ask if you can take a quick rest? No, they would shoot you on site and never allow you in. How does that not make sense to people? You might have a point if Caldari space was filled with exclusively Caldari stations, but it isn't. There are Minmatar and Gallente stations in those systems. Factions that are actually at war with the owners of the space they occupy. The fanfest proposals would apply to the, too. Not that it would matter, since it's not about some loose sense of consistency with the lore. It's about game design that encourages people to play the game like the developers want them to. In this case they want people to join FW but are introducing disadvantages for doing so.
I think the thought is they become occupied, kinda like Star Trek DS9. But that doesn't make sense with the station owners standing to non-FW folks.
Even None ofthe Above supports Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7! |

Fleet Warpsujarento
State Protectorate Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2012.03.24 03:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
It's problematic to simply say that they have been "occupied", because then why would they still have the original faction's agents, sentry guns, standings and LP stores? |

None ofthe Above
127
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Posted - 2012.03.24 03:58:00 -
[26] - Quote
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:It's problematic to simply say that they have been "occupied", because then why would they still have the original faction's agents, sentry guns, standings and LP stores?
Agreed. That doesn't make much sense to me either.
Even None ofthe Above supports Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7! |

Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
65
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Posted - 2012.03.24 04:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
It's not stupid. In fact it is ridiculously easy to get around with a neutral alt with a cloaky hauler or just some neut to fly the ship and swap pilots in a deep ss. It does make living in the war zone more risky. There should be a corresponding reward to come with it, which I have no doubt will be a part of the revamp when it is fleshed out fully. |

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
624
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Posted - 2012.03.24 04:25:00 -
[28] - Quote
docking at the hostile militia station simply does not make sense. All other stations should be safe to dock unless the system is occupied by the hostile militia (or some other game mechanic is in place e.g. special system upgrades or whatever).
Docking games are like the most boring pvp ever invented (and it really does not make sense, why should you disappear from space and dock if somebody fires at you?). Reducing it by giving friendly militia an advantage at undock of a friendly militia station is a big win. a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |

Propmod
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
28
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Posted - 2012.03.24 04:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
So what advantages does being in faction warfare have over just joining a pirate corp and killing people in low sec then? cheap LP items dont seem to outweigh being able to dock in any station imo. I don't know too much about fw other then that though. IMO , admittedly with my limited knowledge of the situation, this doesnt seem like a step forward for FW. |

EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
248
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Posted - 2012.03.24 04:48:00 -
[30] - Quote
base out of a nearby highsec station
peace y'all |
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