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EVE is dying ? Hell no. But it sure is geting stale.

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Kepakh	Posted - 2008.08.26 11:58:00 - [61] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Kepakh You don't throw 38$ into *the* ocean *every 2 months if you're using an antiquated pre-paid billing system* to make waves, do you? FTP, and no, waves are free of charge. The fact you have the option to pay for the game with ingame currency does not make the game F2P. One Carebear to rule them all, One Carebear to find them, One Carebear to bring them all and in the web range bind them.
Chillshock	Posted - 2008.08.26 11:59:00 - [62] Originally by: Sheriff Jones i say bring on the fluff for a change. ... yes, thats the Sheriff we all like... crying for fluff. xD Altho, fluff IS nice. Especially any kind of fluff that leaves the "ololol I wtfbbqpwn haulers and mission ships with my ebilpiwateepeen metality" players. There are quite a lot of those in eve lately. Probably former players of Nightelve Hunter or Rogues in the game who's name should not be said. Meh, eve changes and gets more and more crowded, and even though I whine about "not enough big, cold and empty space" it's still a cool game. Imho all it needs is a new physics engine (or a tweaked one) and a return of wt15 with a random target point on a 15km sphere (no instas) - why? cause eve looks empty while being crowded, wich is much worse then looking crowded when being almost empty. g also fluff!
Ohhitsa SNAKE	Posted - 2008.08.26 12:02:00 - [63] Stagnated might be a better word then stale, once/ if ever they can free the severs up to handle the player base then it would taste stale, atm it tasts stagmented in all areas exspet forum posting,, this tatse salty.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.08.26 12:05:00 - [64] Originally by: Chillshock Originally by: Sheriff Jones i say bring on the fluff for a change. ... yes, thats the Sheriff we all like... crying for fluff. xD I'll fluff you! My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.26 12:11:00 - [65] Originally by: Kepakh Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Kepakh You don't throw 38$ into *the* ocean *every 2 months if you're using an antiquated pre-paid billing system* to make waves, do you? FYP, and no, waves are free of charge. The fact you have the option to pay for the game with ingame currency does not make the game F2P. I believe you mistook my "FTP" typo of "FYP" as "free to play" instead of "fixed your post". As for the payment method, I was referring to the GTC vs subscription issue. _ SHOPS \|\| Mission rewards revamp \|\| better nanofix
Kepakh	Posted - 2008.08.26 12:18:00 - [66] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Kepakh Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Kepakh You don't throw 38$ into *the* ocean *every 2 months if you're using an antiquated pre-paid billing system* to make waves, do you? FYP, and no, waves are free of charge. The fact you have the option to pay for the game with ingame currency does not make the game F2P. I believe you mistook my "FTP" typo of "FYP" as "free to play" instead of "fixed your post". As for the payment method, I was referring to the GTC vs subscription issue. Oh, I see. I stil not get your point... One Carebear to rule them all, One Carebear to find them, One Carebear to bring them all and in the web range bind them.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.26 12:22:00 - [67] Originally by: Kepakh I stil not get your point... My point is that there's no point in trying to do anything nor complain about anything, because CCP is bound to not care... if you're a "core demographic" you won't leave no matter what they do, because you have no better alternatives... if you're not, then they couldn't care less either, because they stick many more with the fluff. You (the player) WON'T "vote with your wallet" and quit (statistically speaking), nor will you manage to affect the game in a way going closer to its original roots (because the niche for that is smaller than what the game is moving towards). The one and ONLY way out would be if some serious competitor would arise IN the particular nice EVE already fills, and manage to do MUCH better (not equally good) compared to EVE. _ SHOPS \|\| Mission rewards revamp \|\| better nanofix
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.26 12:25:00 - [68] Actually I have voted with my wallet, after several years I've closed my 3 accounts. Not saying it will rock the boat but from a democratic point of view I've done my part. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
fuze Chosen Path Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.08.26 12:39:00 - [69] CCP copied (or were inspired by) tons of enhancements from other MMO's so they most definitely are competing with other MMO's.
Kepakh	Posted - 2008.08.26 12:39:00 - [70] Originally by: Akita T My point is that there's no point in trying to do anything nor complain about anything, because CCP is bound to not care... if you're a "core demographic" you won't leave no matter what they do, because you have no better alternatives... if you're not, then they couldn't care less either, because they stick many more with the fluff. You (the player) WON'T "vote with your wallet" and quit (statistically speaking), nor will you manage to affect the game in a way going closer to its original roots (because the niche for that is smaller than what the game is moving towards). The one and ONLY way out would be if some serious competitor would arise IN the particular nice EVE already fills, and manage to do MUCH better (not equally good) compared to EVE. Well, people have other things to do and once they are sick enough, they just leave or not invest as much time/money as they used to. It is like with any other market. People vote with their wallets daily. If your statement was true, there would be no marketing business around. You don't have to have equaly good product. Product quality ain't that important, that is not what sells or make money. One Carebear to rule them all, One Carebear to find them, One Carebear to bring them all and in the web range bind them.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.26 13:09:00 - [71] Originally by: Kepakh It is like with any other market. People vote with their wallets daily. If your statement was true, there would be no marketing business around. You don't have to have equaly good product. Product quality ain't that important, that is not what sells or make money. Linkage First-mover advantage. EVE has it. _ SHOPS \|\| Mission rewards revamp \|\| better nanofix
Ebodhisatva The Templars Knights	Posted - 2008.08.26 13:13:00 - [72] Originally by: techzer0 I log on to change skills... that's about it right now. I suppose I should be playing more since I'm signing up for a ball-n-chain next month, but I keep finding excuses not to... like replaying HL2 episodes over again for the 100th time Funny enough, RL is keeping me busy, but what you state there is prolly the thing that made my RL busy...
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.08.26 13:18:00 - [73] Originally by: fuze CCP copied (or were inspired by) tons of enhancements from other MMO's so they most definitely are competing with other MMO's. Yes, but get this - there are no PvP-centric MMOs (with a player economy on top as well as piracy and being a criminal being valid occupations) which I've seen on the market except EvE. So in that segment, it does not have competition. Of course, if you play EvE purely for PvE (which signifies you're playing the worst subset of EvE anyway), then EvE has a lot of competition which is arguably better then EvE is. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Kepakh	Posted - 2008.08.26 13:22:00 - [74] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Kepakh It is like with any other market. People vote with their wallets daily. If your statement was true, there would be no marketing business around. You don't have to have equaly good product. Product quality ain't that important, that is not what sells or make money. Linkage First-mover advantage. EVE has it. Eh, it is really difficult to follow you. How is this related to EVE? One Carebear to rule them all, One Carebear to find them, One Carebear to bring them all and in the web range bind them.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.26 13:51:00 - [75] Originally by: Kepakh Eh, it is really difficult to follow you. How is this related to EVE? It's directly related to the marketing remark you made, about marketing in general. I made a statement regarding the marketing-wise superiority position EVE has in its niche, and the reason why any other developer would have a hard time getting a significant market share in it. _ SHOPS \|\| Mission rewards revamp \|\| better nanofix
SwindonBadger 0utbreak	Posted - 2008.08.26 13:58:00 - [76] Originally by: Cygnus Zhada Actually I have voted with my wallet, after several years I've closed my 3 accounts. Not saying it will rock the boat but from a democratic point of view I've done my part. I think I'm gonna have to join u on that one.... been playing for around that length pritty damn sure I played this game in the very best fasion, ie always up for making/taking time to urn a fine ship setup and putting it up to a reel test with like minded fellows, I find it quite disgusting how CCP now treat rembusments in the face of a game they cant control at the best of times. Im waiting for them to come back with the ususal twodal about my latest pettion (was trying to get isk for a ship I lost to a new bug they dint want to admit to or even talk about ... nic one ****). It just takes the esp since the few ways open to a like minded players are also now becoming unplayable. I await either... "hers ur ship back" (likly hood 0.3) they might even get a kiss for that which is proberly more of a fright then byte marks I will leave if they dont "we dint see and bugs" > then ok thanks for all the fish bye bye u **** no u cant have mystuff/account Or they will say dont go to that system (where I have built up a base for last 4 years and have everything).. which is like saying dont play ... ok then Cu . just remeber if u want fun not to > poss fight, try anything over 50 v 50 , go to jita, do a lev4 mission where its popular, pvp in inties near centries if there is any lagg. If u can avoide all that stuff u might find some fun. Eat Them all, let the digestion sort em out
Shidama Hiroriy Minmatar Gristle Industries	Posted - 2008.08.26 13:59:00 - [77] You are going to quit arent you Akita? I can sense it. You dont know it yet, but I think you will leave if only for a while. Its a shame. I have learned much from your market posts.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.26 14:09:00 - [78] Originally by: Shidama Hiroriy You are going to quit arent you Akita? I can sense it. You dont know it yet, but I think you will leave if only for a while. Its a shame. I have learned much from your market posts. Oh, I have plenty of ISK for many months of GTCs, and more is easily made on the market if needed... no reason to quit _ SHOPS \|\| Mission rewards revamp \|\| better nanofix
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.08.26 14:19:00 - [79] And here is yet another whine thread brimming with creative accusations and generalizations. Roaming destroyer fleets killing everything that moves through high sec? If that was a daily thing happening everywhere I think I would have seen that at least once in the last 5 years. SP don't count - sure that's a lie. But so is newer players have no chance. Truth - as so often - lies in the middle. Diminishing returns and all. Fact is that there is a limit of SP you can make use of at a given time. Veterans have more variety and an edge of several percent here and there - plus capital ships. Fact is SP is not all in combat. Anybody really involved in eve pvp in doubt that calm under fire, knowing your stuff, making the right decisions, etc are also important and can trump SP in many cases? Fact is that if things were otherwise people would be **ed because there is no character advancement. Fact is lag can be very bad at times and often is a factor - but not nearly as universal as the prime whiners make it sound (and don't live in Jita - you really don't have to). Fact is also that lag is not always server-side and in many cases were actually on your machine (bad settings, bad drivers, bad connection, etc...) CCP does not care, are disgusting, etc... In other words they didn't immediately take care of your pet problem/feature. Nerf - people use that word as if it means making things useless, when in most cases it means getting uber-power abominations back under control - benefiting the game as a whole. So your favourite uber-gank setup is now no longer insanely overpowered - get over it already - the rules are the same for your opponent. CCP makes mistakes here and there - sure - Eve is a complex beast. Mistakes will be made (and later corrected) and compromises are unavoidable. --- ISK BUYER = LOOSER** EVE TV- Bring it back!
Kepakh	Posted - 2008.08.26 14:39:00 - [80] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Kepakh Eh, it is really difficult to follow you. How is this related to EVE? It's directly related to the marketing remark you made, about marketing in general. I made a statement regarding the marketing-wise superiority position EVE has in its niche, and the reason why any other developer would have a hard time getting a significant market share in it. Erm...can you support your claim with some argument? If it was supposed to provided link, I advise you to re-read it a few times in case you didn't understand what's written there :) One Carebear to rule them all, One Carebear to find them, One Carebear to bring them all and in the web range bind them.
Mordekai Bloodwake Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.26 14:40:00 - [81] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 26/08/2008 07:42:07 There's no other MMO out there that can even begin to compete with EVE. Quote: EVE is in no danger of "dying" no matter how many critical mistakes the devs make (which, IMHO, they have been making). But the lack of competition means the only things CCP focuses on is "fluff". The hardcore playerbase is here to stay, the ones drawn by its unique features. Problem is, again, since there's no competition, so the core playerbase isn't going to go away, the only way to draw more people in is useless (to the core demographic) features and changes. I could go on and on about it, but I fail to see a point... It's like preaching to both the choir and a herd of deaf-mute people without using graphical aids. Or, you know, Hans Blix writing angry letters to Kim Jong-il. Meh. Actually thats incorrect, CCP has a fairly hefty bank loan on their back and a number of investors, their goal is to generate more revenue so i would say unless they start to accomplish that they are not in the clear yet.
SwindonBadger 0utbreak	Posted - 2008.08.26 14:42:00 - [82] ""CCP does not care, are disgusting, etc... In other words they didn't immediately take care of your pet problem/feature."" No it is actually disgusting... I have 3 stories from really good pvpers regards how GMs in game have treated people from first hand talk where they lost a ship and did questionable things to get it back/ make them win a fight. If I go pay for a new car/sterio anything and its broken/faulty u get ur new sterio money back/ fixed for free, I try my best to help this game (with fw most recnetly to break up players in one spot ect).. I do my best to help when I can with bug reports/new idears , how to inprove not just ccps game but mentality of players to bring out more fun .. My giref comes form years of suffering the same problesm, for sure with any other product Id have my/ sterio fixed or car mended... here they take ur money and leave u with a automated responce about how they wont give u that oppitunity when quite clearly in some cases its deserevd. That is disgusting, the way the gms acted in at least 3 fights I know of in game was disgusting and illistrates the lack of insight into the effort the averge joe goes into to get his/her ship. If it was just me or some one thing happend yer, id say rr little * to myself but comes from years of putting up with the same crap, only now its getting worse and worse. It takes allot for me to stand up and say thats disgusting but when u feel its the right thing to do u have to do it. I find some bug where (id nerver seen it before either/ my mods where active , I could togle them on and off with buttons but they would not visually change) its really clear to me I was not ... too drunk whatevr to not see this for reel. If I was back making a game atm (used to be in level desgin) Id work on fixing it, or at least understanding it..) when the repsonce is a very unthoughtful automated responce about how they have not seen this bug.. rather try and work out if this is a new issue.. and still wont consider rembusre then u go through last ship los trying to get isk back for that ship its taking the **. I recon if was to go over all plaudable ship losses I would be around 4 bil richer... if u work out rouchly 25 mil an hour erning rate thats allot of time in someones job/life they have taken for somthing that is not ur own fault. Eat Them all, let the digestion sort em out
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.26 15:23:00 - [83] Originally by: Kepakh Erm...can you support your claim with some argument? If it was supposed to provided link, I advise you to re-read it a few times in case you didn't understand what's written there :) So, let's see... I say EVE has no competition to speak of in its niche, therefore no SERIOUS incentive to improve on the niche-specific features (some idle developement might come by every now and then, but the main effort is into expanding into nearby/similar niches). I also say that unless a niche-specific competitor shows up, and that competitor's product is at least as good or better than EVE, he'll have little chances to grab a significant market share. Then you say "you don't have to have equaly good product. Product quality ain't that important, that is not what sells or make money." And then I point you in the general direction of the definition of "First-mover advantage", claiming that EVE has it in the particular niche it fills. Then you say I don't make any sense and I should read that definition again. I guess I should have given more reasons for my "FMA for EVE" statement ? Well, here goes. WHAT EXACTLY is the niche EVE fills right now ? It actually fills several niches, but they're closely related. First, it's the skill system, which HEAVILY promotes player retention rates and long subscription times (and therefore the first point for EVE having the FMA, in form of the existing CHARACTER base). With liquidation of assets into RL cash being heavily discouraged and punished, people are not that likely to "sell out" completely... or if they do sell out, they do it in in-game currency, which puts them in the position of being able to sustain the account on ISK-bought GTCs for a good while. Second, it's the single-shard thing (the China alt-universe is another matter) and therefore the community factor. With over 250k active acounts, even if up to one third are "no-shows" most of the time, there's still plenty of people who you can bond with, and the game is HEAVILY slated in favor of cooperation. With an established friends network, again, retention rates are increased, people come back even after they quit dragged back by free days or other acquaintances still playing and so on and so forth, further solidifying the FMA EVE has on this, since the costs for a single-shard architecture are quite large. Granted, one competitor could slowly scale up like EVE has, but they ARE faced with EVE's FMA, causing their market share to grow very slowly. Granted, that might not be a big issue for a large company, but none of the large ones seem to even try this in the first place. Third, it's the whole "cutthroat, dark, violent" feel. Say what you want, but to date, EVE is the only mainstream MMO that is even remotely ruthless with their playerbase. Yeah, they're mellowing out, but mostly in highsec. The rest is as ruthless and cutthroat as it can possibly be. It's a pretty shallow niche, and EVE has it all but filled. Combined with the both above issues, it's not THAT hard to see just HOW MUCH of a first-mover advantage EVE has. These are just the THREE KEY FEATURES that define EVE. EVE has other good things going for it except them, but they should be enough for now as an example to the issue you raised. And now, EVE is expanding into the other niches too... slowly but surely. And they have a pretty damned agressive marketing campaign too... haven't you noticed the sheer number of EVE ads lately ? Sure, other games COULD try to fill any one of those niches, but they WOULD have to contend with a serious first-mover advantage on EVE's behalf. Doesn't mean they can't possibly ever exist, it just means they'd have to spend a shedload more initial money to even have a chance to enter the market in a way that would put any noticeable dents in EVE's subscriber numbers. _ SHOPS \|\| Mission rewards revamp \|\| better nanofix
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.08.26 15:30:00 - [84] How many stupid posts does someone have to make before we take away their ability to hit the "Create New Thread" button? Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
GiantSquid	Posted - 2008.08.26 15:33:00 - [85] Originally by: An Anarchyyt How many stupid posts does someone have to make before we take away their ability to hit the "Create New Thread" button? giant squid slaps gooni for 5 red herrings into last 3 years of goon spam troll threds..... its been fun to watch u guys slowly mature and see the light , only probelry in a years time to have new wave of weeners come in and do the same to u ..... u is very ironical n all init.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.26 15:33:00 - [86] Originally by: An Anarchyyt How many stupid posts does someone have to make before we take away their ability to hit the "Create New Thread" button? 8 on the side. _ SHOPS \|\| Mission rewards revamp \|\| better nanofix
Bartholomeus Crane Gallente The Crane Family	Posted - 2008.08.26 15:38:00 - [87] Maybe you start another thread about it ... -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
ElCoCo KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.26 15:41:00 - [88] Most of the times I keep playing just because I feel the effort of all these years will be wasted if I quit... if I did, someone would get a lot of stuff, no you can't have it! Pretty sure a lot of ppl feel the same. Boink!
Bartholomeus Crane Gallente The Crane Family	Posted - 2008.08.26 16:03:00 - [89] What if you just stopped speaking for anyone else but you? Also, tl;dr, your list of 'achievements' smacks rather of boasting, and frankly, make you look a bit pathetic. If you're sick of EVE, step away from the keyboard and do something else for while. Don't talk about it on the forums though, because, frankly, we don't give a shit. Have a nice day. -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.26 16:18:00 - [90] Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane What if you just stopped speaking for anyone else but you? Also, tl;dr, your list of 'achievements' smacks rather of boasting, and frankly, make you look a bit pathetic. No, it would have been pathetic if he said "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die." His list reads like pretty much any other 3 year old non-highsec-carebear's list. Quote: If you're sick of EVE, step away from the keyboard and do something else for while. Don't talk about it on the forums though, because, frankly, we don't give a shit. Have a nice day. Ah, the "I don't care about what to have to say but care enough to post" approach ? Classic. _ SHOPS \|\| Mission rewards revamp \|\| better nanofix

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