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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.26 07:38:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Akita T on 26/08/2008 07:42:07
There's no other MMO out there that can even begin to compete with EVE.
EVE is in no danger of "dying" no matter how many critical mistakes the devs make (which, IMHO, they have been making).
But the lack of competition means the only things CCP focuses on is "fluff".
The hardcore playerbase is here to stay, the ones drawn by its unique features.
Problem is, again, since there's no competition, so the core playerbase isn't going to go away, the only way to draw more people in is useless (to the core demographic) features and changes.
I could go on and on about it, but I fail to see a point...
It's like preaching to both the choir and a herd of deaf-mute people without using graphical aids.
Or, you know, Hans Blix writing angry letters to Kim Jong-il.
Meh.
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.08.26 07:43:00 -
[2]
There's no competition right now, but Earthrise looks promising.
It will do some good to Eve, having a serious competitor. Maybe after that you won't need a to wait a year to get something fixed.
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techzer0
Minmatar Mafia
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Posted - 2008.08.26 07:45:00 -
[3]
I log on to change skills... that's about it right now.
I suppose I should be playing more since I'm signing up for a ball-n-chain next month, but I keep finding excuses not to... like replaying HL2 episodes over again for the 100th time 
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CCP > Let's play the nerf a race game! Next up minmatar! |
Banana Torres
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.08.26 07:45:00 -
[4]
You sound like my grandfather when he was going on about his Rover 75. He always maintained that it was a great car with many unique features. Well that was until Rover went bust.
The wittle Wii has shown that the future of gaming is not catering to the hardcore gamers, but to the girlies. So to CCP I say....
Adapt or Die.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.26 07:46:00 -
[5]
Earthrise is no competition.
First off, it doesn't have the skill system EVE has (there's a grind element related to the advancement of skills), and second no similar MMO ever "snatched" people out of established MMO membership with a similar gameplay.
At best, it will serve as an alternative to new players, but the core EVE players will stay (or at least come back to) EVE sooner rather than later.
This concludes the off-topicness reply 
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.26 07:48:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Banana Torres
The wittle Wii has shown that the future of gaming is not catering to the hardcore gamers, but to the girlies. So to CCP I say.... Adapt or Die.
The fact that the skill system is grind-independant (or at least not closely tied to it, implants are negligible compared to the rest of the training speed) DOES make EVE a "casual game", at least for those who want to engage in it that way.
If anything, CCP has adapted long beofre it was even needed 
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.08.26 07:48:00 -
[7]
They've been concentrating on the "hardcore" stuff for years, i say bring on the fluff for a change.
Especially RP fluff 
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.26 07:50:00 -
[8]
Well, it's not a whine, it's not a suggestion, it's just a statement of "things are like this because this is the only logical conclusion to the existing state of affairs"
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SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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umop 3pisdn
Minmatar
Fnck the blob.
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Posted - 2008.08.26 08:04:00 -
[9]
Bye bye nano age!
I cant wait to get back to the good old days!
Oh wait thats not a moon...
How many titans have we counted so far? -10 or so that have died?
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Siberys
Gallente
Nebula Sharks
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Posted - 2008.08.26 08:11:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Siberys on 26/08/2008 08:12:15
Edited by: Siberys on 26/08/2008 08:11:24
You know what I think? Have monthly events with goals, and have people sign up for these events. Then the people who signed get missions like 'Kill 500k rats before the end of this month' or 'build 1000 cruisers'. These missions are 'scored' by the whole group, so the total is collective. At the end of the month, if they made the goal, all the participants would get a free item related to what they had done. The rat people might get a large amount of faction ammo, the industrialists might get a crappy 1 run T2 BPC, and so on.
It's all stuff they would do anyway, and would give people some incentive to play more IMO.
edits:Typos
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Pilot Abilene
Caldari
Serpentine Dream Theory
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Posted - 2008.08.26 08:14:00 -
[11]
Why blame CCP? they gave us the sandbox to play in. It's not their fault the community has never fully taken hold of said concept and made New Eden a living, breathing and prospering universe like the devs envision. People take the whole "sandbox" concept out of context and think it means they can do what they want, when they want to anyone they want and so on...which is true, but in the end once you kill everything off what is left and what's the point?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.26 08:35:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Pilot Abilene
Why blame CCP?
Who's blaming them ?
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SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Siberys
Gallente
Nebula Sharks
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Posted - 2008.08.26 08:37:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Pilot Abilene
Why blame CCP? they gave us the sandbox to play in. It's not their fault the community has never fully taken hold of said concept and made New Eden a living, breathing and prospering universe like the devs envision. People take the whole "sandbox" concept out of context and think it means they can do what they want, when they want to anyone they want and so on...which is true, but in the end once you kill everything off what is left and what's the point?
Yea. I know because a lot of my friends take this game a bit seriously. They are constantly telling me 'How can you use all you chars equally?' or 'YTF are you training that, it's not the best' or 'Wow, you suck at PvP, you don't have a nano.'
And I constantly tell them that's because I embrace the massive size and scope of this game. I've spent the past few months collecting interesting moments in the game, and I've spent a lot of time finding stunning places and other things ingame. But of course, living with the universe we have now, I could almost question whether people notice that maybe you don't have to be a money hoarder or maybe the one-man corp who has a guy in a frigate flying through your 0.0 gatecamp isn't going to nuke your capital fleet. I've had more fun with EVE than with other MMOs because the world is so vast, and the content so varied.
To state the fact again, it's not the world, it's the people.
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Siberys
Gallente
Nebula Sharks
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Posted - 2008.08.26 08:38:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Pilot Abilene
Why blame CCP?
Who's blaming them ?
The whiners, because they can't have universal power.
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Lazuran
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.08.26 08:41:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Banana Torres
The wittle Wii has shown that the future of gaming is not catering to the hardcore gamers, but to the girlies. So to CCP I say.... Adapt or Die.
The fact that the skill system is grind-independant (or at least not closely tied to it, implants are negligible compared to the rest of the training speed) DOES make EVE a "casual game", at least for those who want to engage in it that way.
If anything, CCP has adapted long beofre it was even needed
But at the same time, it really puts the newer players off to see that it takes 2 years to get good PVP skills...
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.08.26 08:48:00 -
[16]
I like the game as it is, so let them add fluff. The more well-rounded the game is, the more likely I, for one, am to stick with it.
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DesuSigs |
my junky
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Posted - 2008.08.26 08:52:00 -
[17]
Opem a new server and start again.
New players would stand a chance against vets, it would be a few years before Capitals Online returns, no T2 BPOs, lots of new alliances to be formed and 0.0 space to be fought over. The good-old-days would be back. |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.08.26 08:56:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Pilot Abilene
Why blame CCP?
Who's blaming them ?
Oh go on then , ill do it
SKUNK
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.08.26 08:57:00 -
[19]
Originally by: my junky
New players would stand a chance against vets
Sigh
Originally by: my junky
The good-old-days would be back.
EVE was never good.
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DesuSigs |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.08.26 08:59:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Lazuran
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Banana Torres
The wittle Wii has shown that the future of gaming is not catering to the hardcore gamers, but to the girlies. So to CCP I say.... Adapt or Die.
The fact that the skill system is grind-independant (or at least not closely tied to it, implants are negligible compared to the rest of the training speed) DOES make EVE a "casual game", at least for those who want to engage in it that way.
If anything, CCP has adapted long beofre it was even needed
But at the same time, it really puts the newer players off to see that it takes 2 years to get good PVP skills...
Someones gonna pipe in now with the lie that skillpoints dont matter, and how once he heard of a noob in a rifter killing an afk ratting raven.
SKUNK
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Ciryadin
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Posted - 2008.08.26 09:08:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Someones gonna pipe in now with the lie that skillpoints dont matter, and how once he heard of a noob in a rifter killing an afk ratting raven.
SKUNK
Actually i killed Shrikes titan with a velator.
Took me ages though. 
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.08.26 09:08:00 -
[22]
I dunno, I think the EA expansion that brought about Faction Warfare has been accepted as a good time by the playerbase despite the few dorks who said it was fail while it was in testing.
Are you saying FW is fluff and doesn't have to do with competition? I would disagree.
So you point is that new and shiny stuff is needed to keep people's attention? HOLD THE PRESSES!
--
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.26 09:10:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Someones gonna pipe in now with the lie that skillpoints dont matter, and how once he heard of a noob in a rifter killing an afk ratting raven.
"SP don't matter" is a freaking lie.
"SP don't matter past a certain point for any specific ship" however is quite true
Devil's in the details...
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Tennoku
Amarr
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.08.26 09:10:00 -
[24]
Akita, I see you using words like "fluff" and "useless features and changes", but I can't work out more meat from your post. What is it, in more concrete terms, that you think is wrong with EVE and how it could be made better (if at all)?
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
Revelation Space
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Posted - 2008.08.26 09:12:00 -
[25]
Originally by: my junky
Opem a new server and start again.
New players would stand a chance against vets, it would be a few years before Capitals Online returns, no T2 BPOs, lots of new alliances to be formed and 0.0 space to be fought over. The good-old-days would be back.
Yessss until we get more new players who like to whine about how it's impossible to compete with the veterans or the established 0.0 alliances.
You're either very selfish or extremely short sighted.
Removed. Please keep your EVE signature related to your EVE persona and not that of a real life politician. Navigator |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.26 09:12:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Tennoku
What is it, in more concrete terms, that you think is wrong with EVE
Lack of competition.
Quote:
and how it could be made better (if at all)?
Nothing CCP would ever do unless poked by said inexistant competition.
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.08.26 09:14:00 -
[27]
Akita seriously though, i think the jumpgate(or whatever it was) will create the competition you require.
Should boost, even more, fun things into EVE 
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.26 09:20:00 -
[28]
Jumpgate is just a freaking Freelancer clone with even less appeal as the original.
So, no, it won't, or it won't be.
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.08.26 09:32:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Akita T
Jumpgate is just a freaking Freelancer clone with even less appeal as the original.
So, no, it won't, or it won't be.
Ah but now you're thinking from personal view, many EVE players are actually waiting for the "freelancer clone" and it MIGHT boost things.
Looking for a new space MMO is a bit, how to put it, futile as many developers don't want to start a "war" with EVE as it's quite dominating in its field.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Lazuran
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.08.26 09:40:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Le Skunk
Someones gonna pipe in now with the lie that skillpoints dont matter, and how once he heard of a noob in a rifter killing an afk ratting raven.
"SP don't matter" is a freaking lie.
"SP don't matter past a certain point for any specific ship" however is quite true
Devil's in the details...
So in other words, it's a good idea for noobs to specialize right from the start so that they can compete with 70m SP players with their 6-7m SP because their skills are all focused on one particular ship and setup?
The one CCP is going to nerf next?
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Lazuran
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.08.26 09:41:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Pilot Abilene
Why blame CCP? they gave us the sandbox to play in.
And every time someone builds a pretty castle in the sandbox, some idle CCP guy comes along and smashes it with the nerf bat.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.26 09:46:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Lazuran
Originally by: Pilot Abilene
Why blame CCP? they gave us the sandbox to play in.
And every time someone builds a pretty castle in the sandbox, some idle CCP guy comes along and smashes it with the nerf bat.
Sounds like your usual day at the beach, doesn't it ?
Except it's waves, not a nerfbat.
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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WAuter
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.26 10:16:00 -
[33]
What goes up, must come down...someday.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.26 10:17:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Akita T on 26/08/2008 10:17:59
Originally by: WAuter
What goes up, must come down...someday.
Unless it was launched above escape velocity...
Linkage
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
Revelation Space
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Posted - 2008.08.26 10:18:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Lazuran
Originally by: Pilot Abilene
Why blame CCP? they gave us the sandbox to play in.
And every time someone builds a pretty castle in the sandbox, some idle CCP guy comes along and smashes it with the nerf bat.
Except some people like to bend the rules and pop a bit of cement mix in their castle, making it overpowered comapred to the other sandcastles.
Metaphores
Removed. Please keep your EVE signature related to your EVE persona and not that of a real life politician. Navigator |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.08.26 10:19:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain
Originally by: Lazuran
Originally by: Pilot Abilene
Why blame CCP? they gave us the sandbox to play in.
And every time someone builds a pretty castle in the sandbox, some idle CCP guy comes along and smashes it with the nerf bat.
Except some people like to bend the rules and pop a bit of cement mix in their castle, making it overpowered comapred to the other sandcastles.
Metaphores
Well, if you can afford a BoBdozer, it's no problem
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.08.26 10:24:00 -
[37]
NerfBat is now known as the WaveMachine.
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DesuSigs |
Kepakh
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Posted - 2008.08.26 10:32:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Lazuran
Originally by: Pilot Abilene
Why blame CCP? they gave us the sandbox to play in.
And every time someone builds a pretty castle in the sandbox, some idle CCP guy comes along and smashes it with the nerf bat.
Sounds like your usual day at the beach, doesn't it ?
Except it's waves, not a nerfbat.
You don't throw 38$ into ocean to make waves, do you?
One Carebear to rule them all, One Carebear to find them, One Carebear to bring them all and in the web range bind them. |
Cygnus Zhada
Amarr
Reckless Corsairs
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Posted - 2008.08.26 10:37:00 -
[39]
As I see it we're past the "lack of competition" part, we're in the "end of product cycle" I think. Mind you that doesn't mean the end of the game but it does have it's impact on decisions, ideals and goals the devs have and make.
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We didn't want that boot.ini anyway |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.26 10:45:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Kepakh
You don't throw 38$ into the ocean every 2 months if you're using an antiquated pre-paid billing system to make waves, do you?
FTP, and no, waves are free of charge.
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Siberys
Gallente
Nebula Sharks
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Posted - 2008.08.26 10:46:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Siberys on 26/08/2008 10:47:30
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 26/08/2008 10:17:59
Originally by: WAuter
What goes up, must come down...someday.
Unless it was launched above escape velocity...
Linkage
Speaking of escape velocity...
First spaceship game I ever liked.
Linkage
You could board ships in that! Hint, hint, CCP. |
Zantei
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Posted - 2008.08.26 10:47:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Cygnus Zhada
As I see it we're past the "lack of competition" part, we're in the "end of product cycle" I think. Mind you that doesn't mean the end of the game but it does have it's impact on decisions, ideals and goals the devs have and make.
In all fairness, Eve has been going on much longer than anyone could have ever predicted. It's just that around this time, like you say, the staff start making needless changes in an almost liberal fashion without taking the care to make sure balance and playability are maintained.
Rigs didn't do anything, they just complicated things.
Capitals not being able to leave 0.0 space seems a bit artificial.
POS warfare is a zzzz fest.
Faction warfare is so 'whatever'.
Ambulation will add much to Eve, I'm looking forward to some mini games. I've been asking for features like these since Ultima Online. |
Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Ursa Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2008.08.26 10:50:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Lazuran
So in other words, it's a good idea for noobs to specialize right from the start so that they can compete with 70m SP players with their 6-7m SP because their skills are all focused on one particular ship and setup?
The one CCP is going to nerf next?
FOTM riders always get nerfed, so the smart new player would choose what _he_ likes to do in-game. Though if he's the kind of guy that likes to go FOTM then there's not much we can do... You can't nerf idiocy. |
Patsy kavanagh
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Posted - 2008.08.26 10:53:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Akita T
Jumpgate is just a freaking Freelancer clone with even less appeal as the original.
So, no, it won't, or it won't be.
Ah but now you're thinking from personal view, many EVE players are actually waiting for the "freelancer clone" and it MIGHT boost things.
I know I am.
Been playing eve since 2004 but nowadays it has got a bit samey, that and pos wars really suck.
Really, all thats keeping me here at the mo is my mates and the lack of anywhere else to go.
Some of its probably down to me...
But I can't wait till jumpgates out for some nice fast twitch based gameplay, with all the tactical thought that eve involves as you'll still be fitting ships and flying with your mates.
Wouldn't supprise me if theres a large part of eves userbase who are going to try it out certainly most of the peeps who were flying nanos and who are always asking for joystick flight etc...
Oh and as for jumpgate being a freelancer clone, I think you should get your facts right, the original jumpgate was released on sept 25th 2001, where as freelancer was released in march 2003 and the new jumpgate is just an update of the old one, which is still going by the way.
Though speaking of freelancer, i might have to dig it out it'l give me something fun to play while i wait for jumpgate.
PS would be posting with my main but i've let the subscription expire. |
fuze
Chosen Path
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.08.26 10:53:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Akita T
I could go on and on about it, but I fail to see a point...
Does every game have to have the competition element in it?
Competition in Eve is optional. Always has been and always will be.
If you disagree Eve is not meant for you.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.26 11:02:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Akita T on 26/08/2008 11:02:19
Originally by: fuze
Does every game have to have the competition element in it?
Yes. Otherwise it's not a GAME. It's a... what do you call it ? Well, not GAME, anyway.
P.S. And no, "sandbox" is not the term I was looking for either.
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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rolaand
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Posted - 2008.08.26 11:10:00 -
[47]
they need to add a grind element to skills. something that will add on top of your current skill. something incredibly miniscule like .00001% per shot or something.
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fuze
Chosen Path
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.08.26 11:11:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Akita T
Yes. Otherwise it's not a GAME. It's a... what do you call it ? Well, not GAME, anyway.
P.S. And no, "sandbox" is not the term I was looking for either.
game
1. An activity providing entertainment or amusement; a pastime:
2.
a. A competitive activity or sport in which players contend with each other according to a set of rules:
... yadayadayada
See?
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fuze
Chosen Path
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.08.26 11:13:00 -
[49]
Originally by: rolaand
they need to add a grind element to skills. something that will add on top of your current skill. something incredibly miniscule like .00001% per shot or something.
The took that out of the game end of 2003 because it was abused by all the 'cool kids'. |
rolaand
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Posted - 2008.08.26 11:19:00 -
[50]
Originally by: fuze
Originally by: rolaand
they need to add a grind element to skills. something that will add on top of your current skill. something incredibly miniscule like .00001% per shot or something.
The took that out of the game end of 2003 because it was abused by all the 'cool kids'.
they should add it back. if you make it small enough, it will just be a natural progression of increasing skill, instead of something that can be 'sploited' Hell make it 100,000 shots per % or even a million shots. Of course make it so it only applies to shots that hit legitimate targets, not some can you jettisoned.
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Souvera Corvus
Gallente
Redroom Eleven
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Posted - 2008.08.26 11:20:00 -
[51]
General point not aimed at anyone.
I think boredom sets in when people cling to a particular style of gameplay and then wonder why the game is getting repetitve. There's too much in the game for it to get completely tedious if you're willing to change it up ever now and again and keep it fresh for yourself.
CCP will always have to respond to what's happening in MMO's even if its not always in the same genre, so 'fluff' is to be expected.
We could always go play something else.
Couldn't we?
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
The Requiem
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Posted - 2008.08.26 11:33:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Gamesguy
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Ah but now you're thinking from personal view, many EVE players are actually waiting for the "freelancer clone" and it MIGHT boost things.
Looking for a new space MMO is a bit, how to put it, futile as many developers don't want to start a "war" with EVE as it's quite dominating in its field.
Please, people are already complaining about lag over there with a dozen people fighting in the same system.
Heh, which game are you talking about? :D
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.26 11:33:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Souvera Corvus
We could always go play something else.
The only game that beats EVE is Outside™, and I got bored of it already.
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Andrea Skye
Caldari
The Python Cartel
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Posted - 2008.08.26 11:36:00 -
[54]
All they need to do, is make low sec worthwhile for "carebears". Sen ideas like moving all ice fields there etc.
Atm, low sec isnt needed at all, and if they changed it so it was needed in some way, they whole game would change, everyone would have a ton of fun.
Roll on the nano nerf btw, cant wait for that to come.
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Another Forum'Alt
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Posted - 2008.08.26 11:40:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Andrea Skye
All they need to do, is make low sec worthwhile for "carebears". Sen ideas like moving all ice fields there etc.
Atm, low sec isnt needed at all, and if they changed it so it was needed in some way, they whole game would change, everyone would have a ton of fun.
Roll on the nano nerf btw, cant wait for that to come.
YOu do realise that 0.0 alliances run pos too?
I doubt they would want to go there to get their ice, so huge inflation, or alternatively, nobody mines any ice (did you know a single cycle is several min long?), and all the alliances lose sov as their pos run out of fuel.
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Cygnus Zhada
Amarr
Reckless Corsairs
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Posted - 2008.08.26 11:49:00 -
[56]
It would be a good thing actually, you'd see less POS spam, and less remote area control. Would make low sec more important, create more competition and icemining would actually become an industry for actual players instead of afk alts.
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We didn't want that boot.ini anyway |
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.08.26 11:52:00 -
[57]
Originally by: rolaand
they should add it back. if you make it small enough, it will just be a natural progression of increasing skill, instead of something that can be 'sploited' Hell make it 100,000 shots per % or even a million shots. Of course make it so it only applies to shots that hit legitimate targets, not some can you jettisoned.
Anything too small to powerlevel is too small to be useful.
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DesuSigs |
Xevan Templar
7th Batavian Squadron
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Posted - 2008.08.26 11:53:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Akita T
Lack of competition.
First off 'fluff' isn't always a bad thing. I think I mentioned it once before but adding fluff can be good for a MMO. Not everybody will be as happy about it, but that's each to his/her own.
And then there is lack of competition. I remember how AoC (Age of Conan) was supposed to have a big impact and 'topple WoW from the throne'. Sure alot of people went to AoC to try it out, but the drop out on AoC was incredible high after 1-2 months already.
A 'possible' competitor could be STO (Star Trek Online), but that game, with still years before release, already looks outdated (on a sidenote CCP take their asteroid belts, they seemed to look ok ).
If , in my personal opinion, there would ever be a good competitor (if it is worked out well), it would probably be * Dune Online *. Until then I keep enyoing myself with EVE and related EVE projects.
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plazzar
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Posted - 2008.08.26 11:55:00 -
[59]
I dont think Eve is dieing but to me it is being turned into a shoot-em up game.
When I first started playing Eve industry was tops for new players and pvp was done mainly in 0.0 and some low sec.Now you get roaming gangs of destroyers ganking any one they see at roid belts or gates making life for new and old players difficult who just want to mine and produce items.
Players may think we have to adapt but just training to destroyer and completly killing the game for others will evetually kill Eve.
The way its going can see the pvp brigade demanding capture the flag etc that runs in other pvp games, we might aswell all head to jita and have last man standing.
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Hakkan Koftar
Minmatar
Lone Star Joint Venture
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2008.08.26 11:57:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Lazuran
So in other words, it's a good idea for noobs to specialize right from the start so that they can compete with 70m SP players with their 6-7m SP because their skills are all focused on one particular ship and setup?
The one CCP is going to nerf next?
Friends > skillpoints.
Try increasing one, while waiting for the other.
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Kepakh
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Posted - 2008.08.26 11:58:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Kepakh
You don't throw 38$ into the ocean every 2 months if you're using an antiquated pre-paid billing system to make waves, do you?
FTP, and no, waves are free of charge.
The fact you have the option to pay for the game with ingame currency does not make the game F2P.
One Carebear to rule them all, One Carebear to find them, One Carebear to bring them all and in the web range bind them. |
Chillshock
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Posted - 2008.08.26 11:59:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
i say bring on the fluff for a change.
...
yes, thats the Sheriff we all like... crying for fluff. xD
Altho, fluff IS nice. Especially any kind of fluff that leaves the "ololol I wtfbbqpwn haulers and mission ships with my ebilpiwateepeen metality" players. There are quite a lot of those in eve lately. Probably former players of Nightelve Hunter or Rogues in the game who's name should not be said.
Meh, eve changes and gets more and more crowded, and even though I whine about "not enough big, cold and empty space" it's still a cool game.
Imho all it needs is a new physics engine (or a tweaked one) and a return of wt15 with a random target point on a 15km sphere (no instas) - why? cause eve looks empty while being crowded, wich is much worse then looking crowded when being almost empty. *g*
also fluff!
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Ohhitsa SNAKE
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Posted - 2008.08.26 12:02:00 -
[63]
Stagnated might be a better word then stale, once/ if ever they can free the severs up to handle the player base then it would taste stale, atm it tasts stagmented in all areas exspet forum posting,, this tatse salty.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.08.26 12:05:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Chillshock
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
i say bring on the fluff for a change.
...
yes, thats the Sheriff we all like... crying for fluff. xD
I'll fluff you!
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.26 12:11:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Kepakh
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Kepakh
You don't throw 38$ into the ocean every 2 months if you're using an antiquated pre-paid billing system to make waves, do you?
FYP, and no, waves are free of charge.
The fact you have the option to pay for the game with ingame currency does not make the game F2P.
I believe you mistook my "FTP" typo of "FYP" as "free to play" instead of "fixed your post".
As for the payment method, I was referring to the GTC vs subscription issue.
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Kepakh
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Posted - 2008.08.26 12:18:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Kepakh
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Kepakh
You don't throw 38$ into the ocean every 2 months if you're using an antiquated pre-paid billing system to make waves, do you?
FYP, and no, waves are free of charge.
The fact you have the option to pay for the game with ingame currency does not make the game F2P.
I believe you mistook my "FTP" typo of "FYP" as "free to play" instead of "fixed your post".
As for the payment method, I was referring to the GTC vs subscription issue.
Oh, I see.
I stil not get your point...
One Carebear to rule them all, One Carebear to find them, One Carebear to bring them all and in the web range bind them. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.26 12:22:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Kepakh
I stil not get your point...
My point is that there's no point in trying to do anything nor complain about anything, because CCP is bound to not care... if you're a "core demographic" you won't leave no matter what they do, because you have no better alternatives... if you're not, then they couldn't care less either, because they stick many more with the fluff.
You (the player) WON'T "vote with your wallet" and quit (statistically speaking), nor will you manage to affect the game in a way going closer to its original roots (because the niche for that is smaller than what the game is moving towards).
The one and ONLY way out would be if some serious competitor would arise IN the particular nice EVE already fills, and manage to do MUCH better (not equally good) compared to EVE.
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Cygnus Zhada
Amarr
Reckless Corsairs
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Posted - 2008.08.26 12:25:00 -
[68]
Actually I have voted with my wallet, after several years I've closed my 3 accounts. Not saying it will rock the boat but from a democratic point of view I've done my part.
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We didn't want that boot.ini anyway |
fuze
Chosen Path
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.08.26 12:39:00 -
[69]
CCP copied (or were inspired by) tons of enhancements from other MMO's so they most definitely are competing with other MMO's.
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Kepakh
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Posted - 2008.08.26 12:39:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Akita T
My point is that there's no point in trying to do anything nor complain about anything, because CCP is bound to not care... if you're a "core demographic" you won't leave no matter what they do, because you have no better alternatives... if you're not, then they couldn't care less either, because they stick many more with the fluff.
You (the player) WON'T "vote with your wallet" and quit (statistically speaking), nor will you manage to affect the game in a way going closer to its original roots (because the niche for that is smaller than what the game is moving towards).
The one and ONLY way out would be if some serious competitor would arise IN the particular nice EVE already fills, and manage to do MUCH better (not equally good) compared to EVE.
Well, people have other things to do and once they are sick enough, they just leave or not invest as much time/money as they used to.
It is like with any other market. People vote with their wallets daily. If your statement was true, there would be no marketing business around.
You don't have to have equaly good product. Product quality ain't that important, that is not what sells or make money.
One Carebear to rule them all, One Carebear to find them, One Carebear to bring them all and in the web range bind them. |
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.26 13:09:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Kepakh
It is like with any other market. People vote with their wallets daily. If your statement was true, there would be no marketing business around.
You don't have to have equaly good product. Product quality ain't that important, that is not what sells or make money.
Linkage
First-mover advantage.
EVE has it.
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SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Ebodhisatva
The Templars Knights
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Posted - 2008.08.26 13:13:00 -
[72]
Originally by: techzer0
I log on to change skills... that's about it right now.
I suppose I should be playing more since I'm signing up for a ball-n-chain next month, but I keep finding excuses not to... like replaying HL2 episodes over again for the 100th time
Funny enough, RL is keeping me busy, but what you state there is prolly the thing that made my RL busy...
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.08.26 13:18:00 -
[73]
Originally by: fuze
CCP copied (or were inspired by) tons of enhancements from other MMO's so they most definitely are competing with other MMO's.
Yes, but get this - there are no PvP-centric MMOs (with a player economy on top as well as piracy and being a criminal being valid occupations) which I've seen on the market except EvE.
So in that segment, it does not have competition.
Of course, if you play EvE purely for PvE (which signifies you're playing the worst subset of EvE anyway), then EvE has a lot of competition which is arguably better then EvE is.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Kepakh
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Posted - 2008.08.26 13:22:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Kepakh
It is like with any other market. People vote with their wallets daily. If your statement was true, there would be no marketing business around.
You don't have to have equaly good product. Product quality ain't that important, that is not what sells or make money.
Linkage
First-mover advantage.
EVE has it.
Eh, it is really difficult to follow you. How is this related to EVE?
One Carebear to rule them all, One Carebear to find them, One Carebear to bring them all and in the web range bind them. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.26 13:51:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Kepakh
Eh, it is really difficult to follow you. How is this related to EVE?
It's directly related to the marketing remark you made, about marketing in general.
I made a statement regarding the marketing-wise superiority position EVE has in its niche, and the reason why any other developer would have a hard time getting a significant market share in it.
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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SwindonBadger
0utbreak
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Posted - 2008.08.26 13:58:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Cygnus Zhada
Actually I have voted with my wallet, after several years I've closed my 3 accounts. Not saying it will rock the boat but from a democratic point of view I've done my part.
I think I'm gonna have to join u on that one.... been playing for around that length pritty damn sure I played this game in the very best fasion, ie always up for making/taking time to urn a fine ship setup and putting it up to a reel test with like minded fellows,
I find it quite disgusting how CCP now treat rembusments in the face of a game they cant control at the best of times. Im waiting for them to come back with the ususal twodal about my latest pettion (was trying to get isk for a ship I lost to a new bug they dint want to admit to or even talk about ... nic one ******). It just takes the **** esp since the few ways open to a like minded players are also now becoming unplayable. I await either...
"hers ur ship back" (likly hood 0.3) they might even get a kiss for that which is proberly more of a fright then byte marks I will leave if they dont
"we dint see and bugs" > then ok thanks for all the fish bye bye u ****** no u cant have mystuff/account
Or they will say dont go to that system (where I have built up a base for last 4 years and have everything).. which is like saying dont play ... ok then Cu .
just remeber if u want fun not to > poss fight, try anything over 50 v 50 , go to jita, do a lev4 mission where its popular, pvp in inties near centries if there is any lagg. If u can avoide all that stuff u might find some fun.
Eat Them all, let the digestion sort em out |
Shidama Hiroriy
Minmatar
Gristle Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.26 13:59:00 -
[77]
You are going to quit arent you Akita? I can sense it. You dont know it yet, but I think you will leave if only for a while. Its a shame. I have learned much from your market posts.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.26 14:09:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Shidama Hiroriy
You are going to quit arent you Akita? I can sense it. You dont know it yet, but I think you will leave if only for a while. Its a shame. I have learned much from your market posts.
Oh, I have plenty of ISK for many months of GTCs, and more is easily made on the market if needed... no reason to quit
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SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.26 14:19:00 -
[79]
And here is yet another whine thread brimming with creative accusations and generalizations.
Roaming destroyer fleets killing everything that moves through high sec? If that was a daily thing happening everywhere I think I would have seen that at least once in the last 5 years.
SP don't count - sure that's a lie. But so is newer players have no chance. Truth - as so often - lies in the middle. Diminishing returns and all.
Fact is that there *is* a limit of SP you can make use of at a given time. Veterans have more variety and an edge of several percent here and there - plus capital ships.
Fact is SP is not all in combat. Anybody really involved in eve pvp in doubt that calm under fire, knowing your stuff, making the right decisions, etc are also important and *can* trump SP in many cases?
Fact is that if things were otherwise people would be ****ed because there is no character advancement.
Fact is lag can be very bad at times and often is a factor - but not nearly as universal as the prime whiners make it sound (and don't live in Jita - you really don't have to).
Fact is also that lag is not always server-side and in many cases were actually on your machine (bad settings, bad drivers, bad connection, etc...)
CCP does not care, are disgusting, etc... In other words they didn't immediately take care of your pet problem/feature.
Nerf - people use that word as if it means making things useless, when in most cases it means getting uber-power abominations back under control - benefiting the game as a whole. So your favourite uber-gank setup is now no longer insanely overpowered - get over it already - the rules are the same for your opponent.
CCP makes mistakes here and there - sure - Eve is a complex beast. Mistakes will be made (and later corrected) and compromises are unavoidable.
---
ISK BUYER = LOOSER
EVE TV- Bring it back!
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Kepakh
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Posted - 2008.08.26 14:39:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Kepakh
Eh, it is really difficult to follow you. How is this related to EVE?
It's directly related to the marketing remark you made, about marketing in general.
I made a statement regarding the marketing-wise superiority position EVE has in its niche, and the reason why any other developer would have a hard time getting a significant market share in it.
Erm...can you support your claim with some argument?
If it was supposed to provided link, I advise you to re-read it a few times in case you didn't understand what's written there :)
One Carebear to rule them all, One Carebear to find them, One Carebear to bring them all and in the web range bind them. |
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Mordekai Bloodwake
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.26 14:40:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 26/08/2008 07:42:07
There's no other MMO out there that can even begin to compete with EVE.
Quote:
EVE is in no danger of "dying" no matter how many critical mistakes the devs make (which, IMHO, they have been making).
But the lack of competition means the only things CCP focuses on is "fluff".
The hardcore playerbase is here to stay, the ones drawn by its unique features.
Problem is, again, since there's no competition, so the core playerbase isn't going to go away, the only way to draw more people in is useless (to the core demographic) features and changes.
I could go on and on about it, but I fail to see a point...
It's like preaching to both the choir and a herd of deaf-mute people without using graphical aids.
Or, you know, Hans Blix writing angry letters to Kim Jong-il.
Meh.
Actually thats incorrect, CCP has a fairly hefty bank loan on their back and a number of investors, their goal is to generate more revenue so i would say unless they start to accomplish that they are not in the clear yet.
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SwindonBadger
0utbreak
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Posted - 2008.08.26 14:42:00 -
[82]
""CCP does not care, are disgusting, etc... In other words they didn't immediately take care of your pet problem/feature.""
No it is actually disgusting... I have 3 stories from really good pvpers regards how GMs in game have treated people from first hand talk where they lost a ship and did questionable things to get it back/ make them win a fight.
If I go pay for a new car/sterio anything and its broken/faulty u get ur new sterio money back/ fixed for free, I try my best to help this game (with fw most recnetly to break up players in one spot ect).. I do my best to help when I can with bug reports/new idears , how to inprove not just ccps game but mentality of players to bring out more fun .. My giref comes form years of suffering the same problesm, for sure with any other product Id have my/ sterio fixed or car mended... here they take ur money and leave u with a automated responce about how they wont give u that oppitunity when quite clearly in some cases its deserevd. That is disgusting, the way the gms acted in at least 3 fights I know of in game was disgusting and illistrates the lack of insight into the effort the averge joe goes into to get his/her ship.
If it was just me or some one thing happend yer, id say rr little *** to myself but comes from years of putting up with the same crap, only now its getting worse and worse. It takes allot for me to stand up and say thats disgusting but when u feel its the right thing to do u have to do it.
I find some bug where (id nerver seen it before either/ my mods where active , I could togle them on and off with buttons but they would not visually change) its really clear to me I was not ... too drunk whatevr to not see this for reel. If I was back making a game atm (used to be in level desgin) Id work on fixing it, or at least understanding it..) when the repsonce is a very unthoughtful automated responce about how they have not seen this bug.. rather try and work out if this is a new issue.. and still wont consider rembusre then u go through last ship los trying to get isk back for that ship its taking the ****.
I recon if was to go over all plaudable ship losses I would be around 4 bil richer... if u work out rouchly 25 mil an hour erning rate thats allot of time in someones job/life they have taken for somthing that is not ur own fault.
Eat Them all, let the digestion sort em out |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.26 15:23:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Kepakh
Erm...can you support your claim with some argument?
If it was supposed to provided link, I advise you to re-read it a few times in case you didn't understand what's written there :)
So, let's see...
I say EVE has no competition to speak of in its niche, therefore no SERIOUS incentive to improve on the niche-specific features (some idle developement might come by every now and then, but the main effort is into expanding into nearby/similar niches).
I also say that unless a niche-specific competitor shows up, and that competitor's product is at least as good or better than EVE, he'll have little chances to grab a significant market share.
Then you say "you don't have to have equaly good product. Product quality ain't that important, that is not what sells or make money."
And then I point you in the general direction of the definition of "First-mover advantage", claiming that EVE has it in the particular niche it fills.
Then you say I don't make any sense and I should read that definition again.
I guess I should have given more reasons for my "FMA for EVE" statement ? Well, here goes.
WHAT EXACTLY is the niche EVE fills right now ?
It actually fills several niches, but they're closely related.
First, it's the skill system, which HEAVILY promotes player retention rates and long subscription times (and therefore the first point for EVE having the FMA, in form of the existing CHARACTER base).
With liquidation of assets into RL cash being heavily discouraged and punished, people are not that likely to "sell out" completely... or if they do sell out, they do it in in-game currency, which puts them in the position of being able to sustain the account on ISK-bought GTCs for a good while.
Second, it's the single-shard thing (the China alt-universe is another matter) and therefore the community factor.
With over 250k active acounts, even if up to one third are "no-shows" most of the time, there's still plenty of people who you can bond with, and the game is HEAVILY slated in favor of cooperation.
With an established friends network, again, retention rates are increased, people come back even after they quit dragged back by free days or other acquaintances still playing and so on and so forth, further solidifying the FMA EVE has on this, since the costs for a single-shard architecture are quite large.
Granted, one competitor could slowly scale up like EVE has, but they ARE faced with EVE's FMA, causing their market share to grow very slowly. Granted, that might not be a big issue for a large company, but none of the large ones seem to even try this in the first place.
Third, it's the whole "cutthroat, dark, violent" feel.
Say what you want, but to date, EVE is the only mainstream MMO that is even remotely ruthless with their playerbase. Yeah, they're mellowing out, but mostly in highsec. The rest is as ruthless and cutthroat as it can possibly be. It's a pretty shallow niche, and EVE has it all but filled.
Combined with the both above issues, it's not THAT hard to see just HOW MUCH of a first-mover advantage EVE has.
These are just the THREE KEY FEATURES that define EVE.
EVE has other good things going for it except them, but they should be enough for now as an example to the issue you raised.
And now, EVE is expanding into the other niches too... slowly but surely. And they have a pretty damned agressive marketing campaign too... haven't you noticed the sheer number of EVE ads lately ?
Sure, other games COULD try to fill any one of those niches, but they WOULD have to contend with a serious first-mover advantage on EVE's behalf.
Doesn't mean they can't possibly ever exist, it just means they'd have to spend a shedload more initial money to even have a chance to enter the market in a way that would put any noticeable dents in EVE's subscriber numbers.
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SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.26 15:30:00 -
[84]
How many stupid posts does someone have to make before we take away their ability to hit the "Create New Thread" button?
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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GiantSquid
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Posted - 2008.08.26 15:33:00 -
[85]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
How many stupid posts does someone have to make before we take away their ability to hit the "Create New Thread" button?
giant squid slaps gooni for 5 red herrings into last 3 years of goon spam troll threds..... its been fun to watch u guys slowly mature and see the light , only probelry in a years time to have new wave of weeners come in and do the same to u ..... u is very ironical n all init.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.26 15:33:00 -
[86]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
How many stupid posts does someone have to make before we take away their ability to hit the "Create New Thread" button?
8 on the side.
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SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente
The Crane Family
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Posted - 2008.08.26 15:38:00 -
[87]
Maybe you start another thread about it ...
--
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
ElCoCo
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.26 15:41:00 -
[88]
Most of the times I keep playing just because I feel the effort of all these years will be wasted if I quit... if I did, someone would get a lot of stuff, no you can't have it!
Pretty sure a lot of ppl feel the same.
Boink! |
Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente
The Crane Family
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Posted - 2008.08.26 16:03:00 -
[89]
What if you just stopped speaking for anyone else but you?
Also, tl;dr, your list of 'achievements' smacks rather of boasting, and frankly, make you look a bit pathetic.
If you're sick of EVE, step away from the keyboard and do something else for while. Don't talk about it on the forums though, because, frankly, we don't give a shit.
Have a nice day.
--
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.26 16:18:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
What if you just stopped speaking for anyone else but you?
Also, tl;dr, your list of 'achievements' smacks rather of boasting, and frankly, make you look a bit pathetic.
No, it would have been pathetic if he said
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die."
His list reads like pretty much any other 3 year old non-highsec-carebear's list.
Quote:
If you're sick of EVE, step away from the keyboard and do something else for while. Don't talk about it on the forums though, because, frankly, we don't give a shit.
Have a nice day.
Ah, the "I don't care about what to have to say but care enough to post" approach ? Classic.
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SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Alz Shado
Ever Flow
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.08.26 16:37:00 -
[91]
My list was meant to illustrate the point that Eve is what you make it. I've worked hard with the tools I've got to accomplish as much as I could. If you're content building sandcastles and knocking them down again over and over, that's fine (I won't comment on the quantity of sand irritating your female parts).
The big question is the same for anyone -- What's Next? Where are we going, how long will it take us to get there, and what will it be like when we arrive?
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\\\\ Rifter(RedBad)
"Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand |
Rhaegor Stormborn
Pestilent Industries Amalgamated
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 16:45:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 26/08/2008 07:42:07
There's no other MMO out there that can even begin to compete with EVE.
EVE is in no danger of "dying" no matter how many critical mistakes the devs make (which, IMHO, they have been making).
But the lack of competition means the only things CCP focuses on is "fluff".
The hardcore playerbase is here to stay, the ones drawn by its unique features.
Problem is, again, since there's no competition, so the core playerbase isn't going to go away, the only way to draw more people in is useless (to the core demographic) features and changes.
I could go on and on about it, but I fail to see a point...
It's like preaching to both the choir and a herd of deaf-mute people without using graphical aids.
Or, you know, Hans Blix writing angry letters to Kim Jong-il.
Meh.
Wow, I always have thought you were a CCP alt.
Rhaegor Stormborn
Fleet Admiral - Pestilent Industries Amalgamated |
Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 16:52:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 26/08/2008 07:42:07
I could go on and on about it, but I fail to see a point...
And then proceeds to go on and on about it in subsequent posts...
C.
Originally by: Tarminic
Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.
|
Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 16:54:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 26/08/2008 16:54:46
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 26/08/2008 07:42:07
There's no other MMO out there that can even begin to compete with EVE.
EVE is in no danger of "dying" no matter how many critical mistakes the devs make (which, IMHO, they have been making).
But the lack of competition means the only things CCP focuses on is "fluff".
The hardcore playerbase is here to stay, the ones drawn by its unique features.
Problem is, again, since there's no competition, so the core playerbase isn't going to go away, the only way to draw more people in is useless (to the core demographic) features and changes.
I could go on and on about it, but I fail to see a point...
It's like preaching to both the choir and a herd of deaf-mute people without using graphical aids.
Or, you know, Hans Blix writing angry letters to Kim Jong-il.
Meh.
Do you know why CCP dont have any real competition at all? Because other games makes crap games, while CCP dont!
Now, good games do not creates itself. You have to work for it. Really hard! And you need to have the ability to LISTEN to the playerbase! CCP do, many others dont! Take FC, one of the things they have been slaughtered on recently with AoC is just that: lack of direct two-way communication - which ofcource includes discussion and debated.
Although, I have to admit the missing posts of people like Oveur is very very sad! Its a very long time since his last decent post. It is really like a family member who have left home without saying where he went! Its like a family member turning his back to his family! I am sure its not intended - I guess its just the "teenage" rebel hormones in him speaking. But its still sad.
YOu are afraid of CCP will become lazy because CCP do not have any real competition! I say the reason why it looks like CCP is resting on it laurels is because they have totally OUTCLASSED any competition, and as such are so far in front of the other games,, it LOOKS like they being lazy!
Fluff. What is that really! Ambulation might look like "fluff", but the potential you can spin out of it is HUUUUGE!! And definitely NOT fluff! Because, before you can start conquering, terraforming and inhabiting planets you DO need to be able to "ambulate". So that is what CCP do now. making the basic fundament for what can be a solid new "arena" for PvP and PvE! Strategic combat! utilizing planets etc. No, the first publish might look like "fluff" - and although I personally find the social part of it to be hugely valuable in itself - it is what you can build ON the ambulation platform in the future that is really earthshaking!
Originally by: Dianabolic
Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Xtreem
Gallente
Knockaround Guys Inc.
Exxxotic
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 16:57:00 -
[95]
reason i dont leave Eve is 50% becuase of invested skill time and in game value of my stuff, and 50% the friends i fly with, although this week 4 buddies have left, which makes me sad :(
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NeoTheo
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 16:58:00 -
[96]
Edited by: NeoTheo on 26/08/2008 16:58:25
are Akita's posts getting stale? hell yes... ;) /hug for teh cb.
Neotheo
Dark Materials
Linkage
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Cygnus Zhada
Amarr
Reckless Corsairs
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 17:09:00 -
[97]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
How many stupid posts does someone have to make before we take away their ability to hit the "Create New Thread" button?
You tell me, Goonies can still post...
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We didn't want that boot.ini anyway |
Cygnus Zhada
Amarr
Reckless Corsairs
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 17:10:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Xtreem
reason i dont leave Eve is 50% becuase of invested skill time and in game value of my stuff, and 50% the friends i fly with, although this week 4 buddies have left, which makes me sad :(
And that is exactly the point, you're not staying because you want to stay for the game, but rather that you'd hate leaving.
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We didn't want that boot.ini anyway |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 17:22:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Akita T on 26/08/2008 17:24:40
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
YOu are afraid of CCP will become lazy because CCP do not have any real competition! I say the reason why it looks like CCP is resting on it laurels is because they have totally OUTCLASSED any competition, and as such are so far in front of the other games,, it LOOKS like they being lazy!
The constant reappearance of minor believed-to-be-squashed bugs and minor new similar bugs (windows resizing for no good reason, snapping or not snapping when/how they're supposed to, drones not obeying commands 100% of the time).
Desynchronisations and lack of any means to manually request a resynch with the server.
Factional Warfare implementation. Great concept, great potential, almost completely empty of any meaning whatsoever even if that meaning would have been trivial to implement.
Years-old bugs I have in my bug reports still "attached to a problem".
"Fixing" the factional FOF issue (not being able to trade on market/contracts) by... guess what... THEIR REMOVAL from the LP shops ? WTF ?!?
The ever-funked corp UI. The no-contrast "heat" edition HUD. Shown brackets (freaking 2D sprites for god's sake) slowing down the machine like hell, same for just about anything else in the UI for that matter.
God-damned AGENTS in freaking JITA, and plenty of the others nearby still sending people there (and there's shedloads of them)... but you spit people out at full speed to solve "undock congestion issues" ? wtf ?!?
The CONSTANT failure to do anything good (but a lot of bad things) about highsec/lowsec/0.0 mining issues, moon minerals and the whole T2 debacle (no, invention is not a solution, it's patchwork, at least as long as the moon mineral issue stays the same).
Economist hired, check. Market thourougly funked, check. Any counter-measures whatsoever, NOT check. Economist doing publicity stunts, check.
Mining in lowsec worse than mining in highsec.
Mining in 0.0 barely more profitable than L4s in highsec.
Free market isn't.
No alternative manufacture methods for... anything.
T2 ammo sucks. Faction ammo overpowered.
Nerf nanos. Boost nanos. Nerf Falcons. Boost Falcons. Nerf Caldari. Boost Caldari. Nerf missiles. Boost missiles. Nerf guns. Buff guns.
Soon™ features, bugfixes, devblogs, etc.
Bountry hunting and the bounty system in general.
Broken (i.e. highly exploitable) COSMOS exploration plex mechanics.
LOCAL channel and the "not to be used as intel tool / ban BACON" yet "but we won't switch people to CONSTELLATION because people DO need an intel tool".
Chance-based mechanics. Invention. Loot drops. ECM. Quality of hits. Questionable use of pseudo-RNG. Weird statistical anomalies "working as intended".
Let's boost small gang warfare ! Let's add small force acheivable goals ! I KNOW ! LET'S ADD CYNOJAMMERS !
POS warfare. System soveraignty. Capital ships online and cyno fields in the first place. Cynonets. Cynojammers.
Yeah, they're doing the BESTEST job in the entire known universe, the BESTESTEST of all games in the same niche.
That's not saying much though, seing how there is no other one.
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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imouttahere
Caldari
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 17:31:00 -
[100]
Hhmmm "Eve is stale" you say. Sounds like you are suffering from eve burn out. Look around and you will see that very little has changed. Try the glass is half full rather than half empty approach.
You are in the 1st stages of 'bitter vet who remembers the good old days' syndrome.
Phase 2 is dev bashing and stage 3 is despising everyone not playing the game exactly the same way you are.
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Dramaan
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 17:33:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Dramaan on 26/08/2008 17:36:24
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 26/08/2008 07:42:07
Or, you know, Hans Blix writing angry letters to Kim Jong-il.
Meh.
Hans Blix is a care bear from Sweden don deserve to have the Blix name.
is not I don't like Sweden I don't like hans blix if knew me you who'd know why.
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 17:33:00 -
[102]
Originally by: imouttahere
Look around and you will see that very little has changed.
Look up the definition of "stale" maybe ?
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Rufus MacMaranth
Gallente
Shadow Front
Tread Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 18:03:00 -
[103]
The reality is ALL games get stale if you have accomplished many of your goals in the game. It is difficult to see how a development team can send out new well thought-out content fast enough to cover this, especially if they do not want to increase the gap between new players and old players.
I think, in reality, it should be a natural cycle where the old 'seen it all, done it all, or at least as much as I care about' crowd goes and finds a new game for a while and we get new 'veterans' created.
I have not reached the 3 year mark, but I have done a lot of what interests me in the game and am wondering what I want to do next that still allows me to have a real life outside of EVE. I have always refused to be at the mercy of a mere game and thus will only participate in anything to do with large fleets (as one example) if I am going to be playing anyway.
If you continue to do the same thing stagnation is inevitable and that feeling of, 'sigh, what now? Oh, done that' will be there. Sounds like time for a long skill, ISK purchased GTCs and a new game for a while until one gets bored of that.
Just my 2c worth,
Ruf. |
Cygnus Zhada
Amarr
Reckless Corsairs
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 18:05:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Akita T
<great summary>
Add to that a failing forum, outdated website and lack of control over trolls and moronic posting, which doesn't help the overall feel. Then there's the (percieved?) allegiance to certain people/entities within the game.
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We didn't want that boot.ini anyway |
Lazuran
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 18:20:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Hakkan Koftar
Originally by: Lazuran
So in other words, it's a good idea for noobs to specialize right from the start so that they can compete with 70m SP players with their 6-7m SP because their skills are all focused on one particular ship and setup?
The one CCP is going to nerf next?
Friends > skillpoints.
Try increasing one, while waiting for the other.
EVE is a (sci-fi) game, not a dating service.
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fuze
Chosen Path
Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 18:32:00 -
[106]
Akita T, you're in dire need for professional help.
You are the one that is broken.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 18:36:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Rufus MacMaranth
The reality is ALL games get stale if you have accomplished many of your goals in the game. It is difficult to see how a development team can send out new well thought-out content fast enough to cover this, especially if they do not want to increase the gap between new players and old players.
Chess (or any other game or sport) has not suffered any (significant, in case of sports) changes at all lately, and it's miraculously NOT STALE.
The "stale" factor comes from an incomplete and/or imbalanced experience.
A complete and balanced experience never gets stale.
Is 0.0 warfare stale ? Hell yeah it is.
Why ? Because of the fact the only thing you can do to "win" at it is to blob more than your enemy or blob at weird hours or blob around the clock or... well, you get the idea... BLOB. After a while, the fact that you could be just as well watching googlefights of random words or manually press +1 in an Excel spreadsheet cell and get pretty much the same soulcrusing experience really gets to you.
We've been promised countless times in the more or less recent past that "Soon™ some changes to promote small-scale warfare will be introduced", things that would make 0.0 territorial warfare less blobby. We got Stealth Bombers first (lol prenerfed, never really un-nerfed bombs, just slightly adjusted to be a bit less pointless), Cynojammers second (lol BS blob vs cap blob), then Factional Warfare (lol meaningless unrelated shiny). What a "lol" joke.
And the trend continues in many other aspects.
Things they COULD have done ?
Well, for starters, how about territorial warfare that does NOT rely on POS babysitting but on actual alliance members activity levels in the area ? How about anti-blob weapons that ACTUALLY work, like, say, bombs that deal damage according to sigradius^2 and can actually be launched in sufficient numbers to KILL a blob, not just tickle it ? How about some meaning to FW ? How about allowing alliances in, since they're already in for pretty much all practical intents and purposes ? What about making lowsec much more profitable (portentially) than highsec could ever hope to be, and 0.0 much more profitable than lowsec could ever hope to be ? What about finally removing local ? What about non-covops-cloaked-ships scanner probes ? And so on...
Yeah, I've heard TALKS and PROMISES of things to come.
But since CCP has consistently proven they somehow manage to endlessly delay until Soon™ comes or to completely FUBAR a feature that sounded awesome in theory/blogs/whatever, I reserve the right to Believe It When I See It ™.
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Rufus MacMaranth
Gallente
Shadow Front
Tread Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 18:50:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Rufus MacMaranth
The reality is ALL games get stale if you have accomplished many of your goals in the game. It is difficult to see how a development team can send out new well thought-out content fast enough to cover this, especially if they do not want to increase the gap between new players and old players.
Chess (or any other game or sport) has not suffered any (significant, in case of sports) changes at all lately, and it's miraculously NOT STALE.
The "stale" factor comes from an incomplete and/or imbalanced experience.
A complete and balanced experience never gets stale.
The uniqueness in games of chess is to do with the multiplicity of partners and the wide variety of moves and responses and has nothing to do with 'features', 'enhancements' and so forth.
This is why it does not go stale. The chess experience would probably only become stale when you either (a) you play the same small set of people all of the the time and noone learns and thus plays the same way all the time or (b) you are the best and noone can beat you.
Many of the 'enhancements' you talk about may, or may not, improve the short term game experience but the real question is will it make the game any more interesting and challenging. I can see if there is more territory ebb and flow in 0.0 it would be better, and maybe you end up with long term chess in 0.0. Maybe that is what we need.
Saying that, assuming equal weaponry, the big alliances can always steamroller the smaller ones so not sure what difference it will really make.
Cheers,
Ruf. |
Hieronimus Rex
Minmatar
Infinitus Sapientia
New Eden Research
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 18:51:00 -
[109]
Originally by: fuze
Originally by: Akita T
Yes. Otherwise it's not a GAME. It's a... what do you call it ? Well, not GAME, anyway.
P.S. And no, "sandbox" is not the term I was looking for either.
game
1. An activity providing entertainment or amusement; a pastime:
2.
a. A competitive activity or sport in which players contend with each other according to a set of rules:
... yadayadayada
See?
1 sounds more like a hobby.
3 confirm's the OP's assertion that all games are competitive.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 19:11:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Rufus MacMaranth
The uniqueness in games of chess is to do with the multiplicity of partners and the wide variety of moves and responses and has nothing to do with 'features', 'enhancements' and so forth.
Sounds like EVE PvP is supposed to be like to me.
Quote:
This is why it does not go stale. The chess experience would probably only become stale when you either (a) you play the same small set of people all of the the time and noone learns and thus plays the same way all the time or (b) you are the best and noone can beat you.
Same here.
Quote:
Many of the 'enhancements' you talk about may, or may not, improve the short term game experience but the real question is will it make the game any more interesting and challenging. I can see if there is more territory ebb and flow in 0.0 it would be better, and maybe you end up with long term chess in 0.0. Maybe that is what we need.
That was my point, yes
Quote:
Saying that, assuming equal weaponry, the big alliances can always steamroller the smaller ones so not sure what difference it will really make.
Right now you have the choice between brute force POS spamming, brute force POS assaults and even more pure brute force.
Adding meaningful results for roaming gangs, territorial patrools, uncontested occupation (no enemy presence since allied presence) of landmarks (gates, belts, stations, etc) and so on and so forth would go a long way towards NOT automatically having big alliances steamroll ANY smaller groups across HUGE swathes of space. If anything, territory occupied will more likely be a function of player activity (be it through sheer numbers of sparse online times, or constant presence of smaller numbers) and player skill (small scale encounters are much more likely, as you have to spread your forces to watch the entire controlled territory or risk losing your flanks/back).
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 19:16:00 -
[111]
I think, if anyone from CCP were to answer this(speculating), it would go something like this:
"Well, EVE is like bree, it may get stale, but it's still bree!"
And by bree we mean beer ofcourse.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 19:17:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
"Well, EVE is like bree, it may get stale, but it's still bree!"
It puts the bree in the Sodastream...
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Synapse Archae
Amarr
Demonic Retribution
Un-Natural Selection
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 19:24:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Synapse Archae on 26/08/2008 19:25:45
Originally by: Tennoku
Akita, I see you using words like "fluff" and "useless features and changes", but I can't work out more meat from your post. What is it, in more concrete terms, that you think is wrong with EVE and how it could be made better (if at all)?
OMG look! Its a serious poster! Quick put him in a zoo before he disappears!
Tennou: I think Akita is referring to CCP tackling the smaller problems while leaving the biggest challenges untouched. Good examples would be:
-Artists working on Ambulation, while the premium client is still missing updated graphics for many stations and other ingame objects.
-nerfing speed which worked somewhat, but not looking at black ops or assault ships, which can't be used at all
-Adding factional wafare, but not adding any actual effects to taking systems, and pre-nerfing the mission rewards
-Doing any of the above without reworking sov warfare and capital ships.
-Not addressing high sec missions or low sec rewards (allowing corps to own lowsec economies), both of which are essential to the core gameplay of risk vs reward.
The clear trend is that CCP is shying away from the difficult but meaningful updates, in favor of more bland but easily decided ones.
Originally by: CCP Garthagk
While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
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Rufus MacMaranth
Gallente
Shadow Front
Tread Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 19:31:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Akita T
Right now you have the choice between brute force POS spamming, brute force POS assaults and even more pure brute force.
Adding meaningful results for roaming gangs, territorial patrools, uncontested occupation (no enemy presence since allied presence) of landmarks (gates, belts, stations, etc) and so on and so forth would go a long way towards NOT automatically having big alliances steamroll ANY smaller groups across HUGE swathes of space. If anything, territory occupied will more likely be a function of player activity (be it through sheer numbers of sparse online times, or constant presence of smaller numbers) and player skill (small scale encounters are much more likely, as you have to spread your forces to watch the entire controlled territory or risk losing your flanks/back).
Hmm, I think I disagree with your premise. If it is all based on activity those with the most active players in all time zones will win. In a multi-time zone online game I think this is a bad premise (and, yes I do realize it is present just now).
I don't believe roaming gangs should have a meaningful impact on space holding. The purpose of a roaming gang is to terrorize, not to hold space, and thus has minimal impact on such activities other than to make the space holders feel insecure (which is still a good objective and can be done just now).
Territory holding should still involve some form of building a presence and defending it. I would agree that the game does not support the current mechanics, but I don't agree with the direction you are going. Once you take space there should still be an ability to build something in it and give you a holding advantage.
Of course the other issue would be finding concensus now on how to change it anyway, so this may all be a moot point! |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 19:37:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Rufus MacMaranth
Territory holding should still involve some form of building a presence and defending it. I would agree that the game does not support the current mechanics, but I don't agree with the direction you are going. Once you take space there should still be an ability to build something in it and give you a holding advantage.
Of course the other issue would be finding concensus now on how to change it anyway, so this may all be a moot point!
Linkage.
Try that.
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Cygnus Zhada
Amarr
Reckless Corsairs
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 19:40:00 -
[116]
Well, since things have changed a bit in 0.0; RA, MAX and all... we can expect some changes to 0.0 mechanics soon.
------------
We didn't want that boot.ini anyway |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 19:42:00 -
[117]
RA has "died" almost as many times as EVE "did"...
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SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Cygnus Zhada
Amarr
Reckless Corsairs
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 19:51:00 -
[118]
change != death
Still I'm fairly sure that if certain scenario's would come up where certain entities would be switching to offense or defense, certain changes would start to happen.
------------
We didn't want that boot.ini anyway |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 20:16:00 -
[119]
Uh, yeah, sorry, I was stuck on the MD-dysprosium-thingy "RA is dying" chants
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SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 20:20:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Akita T
[...] Yeah, they're doing the BESTEST job in the entire known universe, the BESTESTEST of all games in the same niche.
That's not saying much though... as there is no other one !
Originally by: Akita T
The constant reappearance of minor believed-to-be-squashed bugs and minor new similar bugs (windows resizing for no good reason, snapping or not snapping when/how they're supposed to, drones not obeying commands 100% of the time).
Yes, the drone bug can be annoying, although strangely enough it have not bothered me all that much at all, and guess what? I am a gallente with gallented trained ships and skills - which do include drone carrying ships! I agree its a bug! But I dont agree that it is that annoying!
Originally by: Akita T
Desynchronisations and lack of any means to manually request a resynch with the server.
The desync we experienced a long time ago have been mostly fixed. I seldom experience desyncs at all these days! It does happend tho, but very very infrequently! So no, It does not annoy me much either! But yes, I hope it will be fixed, although at the moment a minor one. And if they learn how to fix it, Im sure they will, but a desync aint a easy problem to fix!
Originally by: Akita T
Factional Warfare implementation. Great concept, great potential, almost completely empty of any meaning whatsoever even if that meaning would have been trivial to implement.
Faction warfare is pretty new. The consept is as you say pretty good, and from what I have read on the forums, it is also pretty much well received among the players! I dont participate myself though. There are a few whineas as always, but it seems among many of the participants find it satisfying. At least that is what I hear. Also, I cant see any major uproar against it on the forums. Speaking from experience with such things, those always take place if it is a bad product! Seeing theres none, I consider my first impression to be correct: A success, but a success thaht will be tuned to become even better!
Originally by: Akita T
Years-old bugs I have in my bug reports still "attached to a problem".
.
Guess there is a few, but they have never bothered me at all... if there are problems, I am sure its not fixed because they cant find a way to solve it. Like desyncs, which can be a horrible thing to fix.
Originally by: Akita T
"Fixing" the factional FOF issue (not being able to trade on market/contracts) by... guess what... THEIR REMOVAL from the LP shops ? WTF ?!?
I dont know much about this problem, so I will let it pass.
Originally by: Akita T
The ever-funked corp UI. The no-contrast "heat" edition HUD. Shown brackets (freaking 2D sprites for god's sake) slowing down the machine like hell, same for just about anything else in the UI for that matter.
Also with this I dont know. But then I am running EVE excellently all the time, even with the premium graphic pack and two clients. So if there is a bug, it certainly does not affect me at all!
Originally by: Akita T
God-damned AGENTS in freaking JITA, and plenty of the others nearby still sending people there (and there's shedloads of them)... but you spit people out at full speed to solve "undock congestion issues" ? wtf ?!?
A lot of the problems with Jita is the players own fault. No matter how much hardware CCP adds, the players will seep in until its node/server is severly affected. Maybe they could remove the agents, but in general it would not help that much on the Jita problem, seeing people behave like LEMMINGS!
continues..
Originally by: Dianabolic
Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
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Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 20:21:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Akita T
The CONSTANT failure to do anything good (but a lot of bad things) about highsec/lowsec/0.0 mining issues, moon minerals and the whole T2 debacle (no, invention is not a solution, it's patchwork, at least as long as the moon mineral issue stays the same).
Invention was a good thing! It brought the access to blueprints from being a real lottery system to a "chance for all" system. The limimtation of BPOs stopped this flooding the system with originals, by limiting them to only copies.
Invention is not perfect. But by god and all thats holy: its way better then the system we had! The old system made people not being able to compete at all! THe new system at least levels the market for everyone! Which IS by the way competition!
Moon minerals I dont have any knowledge of, but from what i understand it can be profitable if requiring to mine. and the general balance between the deepspace/lowsec/highsec I guess could be adjusted slightly. But these things severely affects the game on all levels! You simply cant "tune" it all the time! But in general it have worked since 2003, so it IS working! But personally I would have liked to see the roids there enhanced and particularily the NPCs! Now, the fitting aint the same for NPC hunting and PvP! But at least you aint a sitting duck as the miner! And, with better payout from the NPC, it might compensate for any loss you might have in Lowsec.
Originally by: Akita T
Mining in lowsec worse than mining in highsec.
Only due to player actions! The roids do give better payout! It is just that its suicide mining there usually - because of the players! Personally I would like to see mining increased too. Not because I am a miner and want better access to better roids, but because more players will then take the chance to go there! Maybe..
Originally by: Akita T
Mining in 0.0 barely more profitable than L4s in highsec.
Wrong! It is highly pro*****ble! I know! Some time ago I did some mining there with one of my other accounts, and sold the ore for a huge profit!
Originally by: Akita T
Free market isn't.
oh?? It is certainly more free then anything else I have ever seen! Quite a few products are playermade! Only some units plus the skillbooks/blueprints are really prodivded by the game itself! And they are doing some adjustments! Take the shuttle for example! It is now playermade! I am sure they are looking into other things to make playermade too! When they have considered the impact it will have!
Originally by: Akita T
No alternative manufacture methods for... anything.
What you mean by alternative methods? As far as I know manufacturing do not need more then one way to make!? you can get blueprints. And if you have resources you can build stuff! Piece of cake! Isnt it??
Originally by: Akita T
T2 ammo sucks. Faction ammo overpowered.
Personally I find t2 ammo to be nice. It is ofcource a specialized ammo, and not really a allround ammo, but it is certainly not bad! Faction ammo is better, but much harder to get your hands on! Maybe a balance would be nice, but certainly nothing to shake the world with!!
Originally by: Akita T
Nerf nanos. Boost nanos. Nerf Falcons. Boost Falcons. Nerf Caldari. Boost Caldari. Nerf missiles. Boost missiles. Nerf guns. Buff guns.
By boosting something you inevetably and indirectly nerf something. Thats the way of adjusting things! Also, by bringing in new stuff, the need for adjusting always take place! Because new items always affect the current! That is also why its damn hard to make changes between deepspace/lowsec/highsec, because eventually something will be nerfed indirectly by any change plus the wormhole such a change will bring is enormous at best!
Originally by: Dianabolic
Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 20:21:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Akita T
SoonÖ features, bugfixes, devblogs, etc.
I miss posts by Oveur. I miss devblogs! I could read dev blogs all day long! But bug fixes are coming in reasonably often and features are usually brought in 2 time a year - with the always need for balance it brings.
Originally by: Akita T
Bountry hunting and the bounty system in general.
It would be nice indeed, but I am not having sleepless nights over it.
Originally by: Akita T
Broken (i.e. highly exploitable) COSMOS exploration plex mechanics.
Yes, I have heard about it. But what are the alternatives? I am sure CCP have been looking into it many times! I know! I have seen their posts about this topic many times!
Originally by: Akita T
LOCAL channel and the "not to be used as intel tool / ban BACON" yet "but we won't switch people to CONSTELLATION because people DO need an intel tool".
Local channel is hugely important! Removing it WILL have SEVERE CONSEQUENSES on the game! The problem is the balance between different ships and their missions.
Also: it have been around since the very beginning. WHy on earth change something this fundamental that has been around since start??
Originally by: Akita T
Chance-based mechanics. Invention. Loot drops. ECM. Quality of hits. Questionable use of pseudo-RNG. Weird statistical anomalies "working as intended".
In the current invention system everyone have a chance of getting a blueprint as long you have the resource points! The invention is not perfect, but damn sight better then the old and defunk lottery system where "billions" where handed out to a limited throng of people! And when the BPOs where handed out, no more would be handed out at all!
Yes, loot drops could be better. and a lots of other things. But in general: none of these have a real impact on my game play! I would certainly been richer with better loot drops, but I can survive fine without it.
Originally by: Akita T
Let's boost small gang warfare ! Let's add small force acheivable goals ! I KNOW ! LET'S ADD CYNOJAMMERS !
Cynojammers is a nice way of putting a stopper to a cap fleet attack! It makes it easier for the defender holding their system. That is as far as I know the cynojammers where brought in, not neccesary to promote small force combat.
Originally by: Akita T
POS warfare. System soveraignty. Capital ships online and cyno fields in the first place. Cynonets. Cynojammers.
Yes, POS warfare is boring. But system sovereignty is working, and cynojammers are part of its protection.
When it comes to capital ship online.. Capships are fleet ships and logotic ships. Yes, we will see lots of capships, but there will still be plenty of other ships too. And honestly, does it matter??? I mean, the ships are bloody expensive, and they dont outperform all ships! a group of battleships with some tackers can take out a carrier! And a carrier costs 1-3 billion i guess incl. fitting, while a group of battleships costs... 2-5 billions depending on fittings?
I say let the players fly what they want to! As long they can live with "Dont fly anything you cant afford to loose!" mantra!
Originally by: Dianabolic
Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 20:22:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Akita T
"We want more people in lowsec/0.0, what ever should be do?" "hmm... how about we BOOST HIGHSEC ?"
Deepspace have also got improved a lot over time. Its now way easier to defent it then before, making it way more attactive and way more pro*****ble!
Low sec is a difficult one, seeing most players wont go there anyway, seeing the risk of loosing your ship is like 50-60% while the chance of earning the money back before such a loss take place is way smaller. Gatecamping have to take some of the blame here!
High sec have not really got that much of a boost! It just gave the suiciders a posibility for failure! And with failure I mean a chance that the target to get away in their hauler!
Also, it is still possible to suicide gank! its just now the attacker have a larger chance of failure then before! Which is good seeing in 90% of the situation the targets are sitting duck with very small chances of protecting themselves.
Also, the PvPers have always said: Adapt! Well, then adapt yourself! The PvPers have got plenty of bonuses in time, but the game is not surrounded around them alone! Sorry!
Originally by: Akita T
"This is a PvP game. You're not safe anywhere." Oh well... maybe in highsec you should be safe... well, maybe in a NPC corp you should be even safer... aw shucks, let's just have a "make me invincible" button for our nice hard-working missioneers ! I'm sure NONE of them are farmer alts that siphon cash to RMTers in ways we can't 100% detect and punish !
Being "safe" from wardecs in a NPC corps have been as it is since the start of eve. Not everyone wants to do PvP fighting in EVE, but enjoy plenty of the other features in the game! I say, why not let them?? It does not bother me at all!
Also, staying in a npc corp have its price, seeing a lot of what EVE is offering is "disabled" for them. Like Corp and alliance granted functions - like POSes!
Originally by: Akita T
Oh, by the way, have a skillqueue. On second thought, no, don't have it.
Which I certainly hope wont happend either!
I have played for 3 years soon and I have NOT had one problem with setting skills! And my job involves travelling from time to time! I have skills I can start training taking a few months! Like Fighters, dreadnaughts, capital ships, carriers and I have PLENTY of skills that will last like one month!
Skillhandling is a integral part of the gameplay! Making it possible to queue, reduces the gameplay! So do skillchanges through webpages etc.
I say leave it as it is!
Originally by: Akita T
Hey, see those SHINY new labslots you have there on your highsec POS ? Well, your alliance can't use'em fully. Oh, you want PUBLIC access too ? What a good joke.
Cant really comment on this one.
Originally by: Akita T
Hey, look, it's a CARRIERNERF. Oh wait, there's none. Have a compression/hauling nerf instead.
The carriernerf was too severe. It was argumented against it, providing info, and CCP decided to put it on hold until they have looked into it. Why the whining?? Are you complaining that CCP do take us seriously when we are providing feedback??
Originally by: Akita T
Hello I'm a Procurer and I'm useless. I'm a Covetor and absoleted by the Hulk. NO CAP MINING FOR YOU !
Uh? the covetor is way cheaper and as such a starter ship. it is the "introduction" for new players into the world of mining. When it comes to cap mining... It will affect horrendously all game play, maybe even rendering a lot of the resources dead cheap since the market would be flooded. So I think its nice of CCP to hold it until its effect can be analyzed. you do not want the price to fall through the roof, do you??
I have plenty of plenty more things I could add. But I have spent to much time answering this as I have allready done...
Originally by: Dianabolic
Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Kepakh
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 20:43:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Akita T
So, let's see...
I say EVE has no competition to speak of in its niche, therefore no SERIOUS incentive to improve on the niche-specific features (some idle developement might come by every now and then, but the main effort is into expanding into nearby/similar niches).
I also say that unless a niche-specific competitor shows up, and that competitor's product is at least as good or better than EVE, he'll have little chances to grab a significant market share.
...
...
...
...
Maybe it is only me lacking some comprehension but all those letters does not make much sense to me...
So just a few points to something where I think I could figure out what you were trying to say:
Almost entire your post is about how EVE is unique(product quality), I assume that you consider EVE is taking advantage of first-mover and dominating market. As far as I know EVE is not only MMO out there and it is far from dominating the market. Being unique does not create new market segment. EVE is not alone on market and it is competing for subscribers like any other MMO.
Like all players, EVE players can get bored, annoyed, lose interest or just find something more enjoyable.
EVE is one of the most evolving games on the market, no need to discuss this point. Wether it is 'fluff' improvement or 'niche-specific features' is not that important since every player is attracted by something else. EVE has lots to offer and there are as many flavours as many subscribers.
I am personaly leaving EVE for some time(again) since I am very unsatisfied how CCP is taking steps againts fast ships. See how easy is to lose a customer.
Real Life > EVE, bwt.
One Carebear to rule them all, One Carebear to find them, One Carebear to bring them all and in the web range bind them. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 20:44:00 -
[125]
Picking a few I have an issue with, clarifying some you haven't touched, etc
____
"Like desyncs, which can be a horrible thing to fix."
Add a RESYNCH ME type of button that can be pressed say at most once every 5 minutes. It reloads the grid without warping you out. Tada, problem solved.
"Also with this I dont know. But then I am running EVE excellently all the time, even with the premium graphic pack and two clients. So if there is a bug, it certainly does not affect me at all!"
Try entering Tama with a neutral no-skills alt on a busy FW day. Keep FPS monitor open. See the difference between no brackets shown and all brackets shown.
As for the UI thing, ever been in the position where you asked yourself "damn, is this module ACTIVE or not ?" whenever in a bright and/or light green area of space ? Transparent module indicators SUCK.
"A lot of the problems with Jita is the players own fault. No matter how much hardware CCP adds, the players will seep in until its node/server is severly affected. Maybe they could remove the agents, but in general it would not help that much on the Jita problem, seeing people behave like LEMMINGS!"
Yes, people WILL go there until it lags.
However, since both Motsu (laaaaaag galore, mission-related) and Jita have almost the same count of NPCs killed in the past 24h, it makes you wonder just how many MORE people Jita could easily support if no NPC kills ever happened there ?
You'll have to agree, the difference between 200 in local with heavy lag (Motsu), 500 in local with meh-ok lag (Jita) and closer to 1000 with "can't log in" lag is huge... now imagine the numbers would be more like 1500 with mild lag and only over 3000 with "can't login". I'd call that a HUGE improvement.
"Invention is not perfect. But by god and all thats holy: its way better then the system we had!"
It's like saying a cracked rib is beter than a cracked skull. Yeah, it's better, but you'd prefer "no broken anythings" instead if you could have it, wouldn't you ?
"Only due to player actions! The roids do give better payout! "
NO. THEY. DON'T. Not anymore. Not since the drone regions.
Omber and jaspet, the once-upon-a-time coveted resources of lowsec ? Veldspar pays better.
"Mining in 0.0 barely more profitable than L4s in highsec.
Wrong! It is highly profitable! I know! Some time ago I did some mining there with one of my other accounts, and sold the ore for a huge profit!"
So exactly how much ISK did you make per hour of mining per account used ?
And just how recent was that ? And what ore did you mine ? And how much of it did you have to pay for the privilege of accessing that ore ?
L4s in highsec offer SIMILAR (not identical, but same order of magnitude) income levels for next to zero risk, whereas your mining was all but risk-free.
"It is certainly more free then anything else I have ever seen! Quite a few products are playermade! "
And most prices can only have one equilibrium point given the set of environmental condition CCP can set at will.
The fact you have no alternative means of manufacture means you HAVE to use CCP's only option, and therefore you are locked into a single possible price point.
"Uh? the covetor is way cheaper and as such a starter ship. it is the "introduction" for new players into the world of mining. "
The Covetor is almost identical in skill requirements to a Hulk, they're pretty pricey and offer next to no defences.
The only two options for a miner are the Retreiver (low skills) and the Hulk (high skills).
Procurer and Covetor are nearly pointless the way they stand right now.
"When it comes to cap mining... It will affect horrendously all game play, maybe even rendering a lot of the resources dead cheap since the market would be flooded"
The market is ALREADY more than flooded with minerals.
Why the hell do you think T1 ships sell for a price that's damned close to "insurance scam" prices ?
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Alisha Erza
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Posted - 2008.08.26 21:10:00 -
[126]
Edited by: Alisha Erza on 26/08/2008 21:11:28
To me it's like this;
Long time ago CCP was a small group of raving lunatic evil PKers who couldn't give a fuk if you liked their game or not, as long as they had people to pewpew. It was niche, it was different and that's why we loved it, they catered for us the hardcore gamer who was fed up with mediocricy and wanted to be able to kick idiots in the head if they felt like it. With that attitude and "company model" you will have to accept shoddy programming, missed timetables and a bunch of problems here and there. Call it a romantic thing, this was our game and fuk everyone else.
These days they want to be mainstream, go with the big guys, all of a sudden they have charts and prognoses about customer and accounts. They introduce more gameplay changes for the average carebear who mostly come from softer more PVE-like MMO's. They want more numbers and money, and they turn into a real company with managers, accountants, sleek marketing talk. They want to become a proper business.
You know what? then ACT like one and FIX YOUR FUKKEN PRODUCT!
-edit-
This is Tzar'rim/Cygnus Zhada/Caleb Paine, as I'm quitting I'm giving away my stuff to old friends, hence why I by accident used this char. And no, don't even ask.
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Dracus Blackstar
Caldari
DPB Holdings
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 22:40:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 26/08/2008 17:31:06
The constant reappearance of minor believed-to-be-squashed bugs and minor new similar bugs (windows resizing for no good reason, snapping or not snapping when/how they're supposed to, drones not obeying commands 100% of the time).
..........................
Oh, by the way, have a skillqueue. On second thought, no, don't have it.
Hey, see those SHINY new labslots you have there on your highsec POS ? Well, your alliance can't use'em fully. Oh, you want PUBLIC access too ? What a good joke.
Hey, look, it's a CARRIERNERF. Oh wait, there's none. Have a compression/hauling nerf instead.
Hello I'm a Procurer and I'm useless. I'm a Covetor and absoleted by the Hulk. NO CAP MINING FOR YOU !
Yeah, they're doing the BESTEST job in the entire known universe, the BESTESTEST of all games in the same niche.
That's not saying much though... as there is no other one !
This. For the love of God, this. Next CSM meeting they should just hand this post to CCP and then go to the pub.
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 23:15:00 -
[128]
Well, in their defence, some of them are on the agenda, to some degree anyway.
But contrary to expected tam-tam, it's all very hush lately.
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
|
fuze
Chosen Path
Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 23:39:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Akita T
Well, in their defence, some of them are on the agenda, to some degree anyway.
But contrary to expected tam-tam, it's all very hush lately.
This was mentioned before by LaVista. Didn't see any CCP reaction to his call for attention.
Then again people have been complaining about CCP and communications even before 2003. |
Chomin H'ak
The Trivenerate
|
Posted - 2008.08.26 23:49:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Dracus Blackstar
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 26/08/2008 17:31:06
The constant reappearance of minor believed-to-be-squashed bugs and minor new similar bugs (windows resizing for no good reason, snapping or not snapping when/how they're supposed to, drones not obeying commands 100% of the time).
..........................
Oh, by the way, have a skillqueue. On second thought, no, don't have it.
Hey, see those SHINY new labslots you have there on your highsec POS ? Well, your alliance can't use'em fully. Oh, you want PUBLIC access too ? What a good joke.
Hey, look, it's a CARRIERNERF. Oh wait, there's none. Have a compression/hauling nerf instead.
Hello I'm a Procurer and I'm useless. I'm a Covetor and absoleted by the Hulk. NO CAP MINING FOR YOU !
Yeah, they're doing the BESTEST job in the entire known universe, the BESTESTEST of all games in the same niche.
That's not saying much though... as there is no other one !
This. For the love of God, this. Next CSM meeting they should just hand this post to CCP and then go to the pub.
QFT. I wish this weren't the case, though.
Originally by: Frenden Dax
My heart hopes that people aren't that stupid, but my experiences thus far suggest otherwise.
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Slade Trillgon
Siorai Iontach
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 00:04:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
NerfBat is now known as the WaveMachine.
I have a new addition to my Cumplecorn sig .
As for Akitas' OP. I am glad to be here and I doubt I will have anywhere to go for a long time. As you said before they came out with a game that is extremely friendly to the casual gamer that can hadle the harsher side, I doubt anything will even try to compete with that.
I hope you will still be around for a long time, because as I have said before, the community would loose a great vet on that day.
Slade
Originally by: Crumplecorn
NerfBat is now known as the WaveMachine.
DesuSigs
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Viqtoria
Caldari
Groping Hand Social Club
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 00:05:00 -
[132]
croutons online tbqh
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fuze
Chosen Path
Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 00:12:00 -
[133]
Originally by: fuze
This was mentioned before by LaVista. Didn't see any CCP reaction to his call for attention.
I stand corrected. They did answer it. Disappointing nonetheless. |
Kuzya Morozov
Gallente
L8L8L8
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 00:23:00 -
[134]
Putting aside the horrid beach references, I think EVE is dying because of the main points that are supposed to make it attractive. One persistent server results in loads of lag, real-time skill training even when you log off turns off many noobs because it'll be years before they can fly good ships. And for the rest of us, the lack of new ships makes the game sort of boring too. I don't care if the ships need to have roles, I want new toys. Look at WoW (yes you may hate it, but it is the most popular for a reason), they introduce new item tiers all the time, while EVE has had t1/t2/faction for a while.
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Kuzya Morozov
Gallente
L8L8L8
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 00:24:00 -
[135]
That and like someone said, there is no real competition in the space genre MMO and so CCP has been pretty effing lazy if you ask me.
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Rufus MacMaranth
Gallente
Shadow Front
Tread Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 00:52:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Rufus MacMaranth
Territory holding should still involve some form of building a presence and defending it. I would agree that the game does not support the current mechanics, but I don't agree with the direction you are going. Once you take space there should still be an ability to build something in it and give you a holding advantage.
Of course the other issue would be finding concensus now on how to change it anyway, so this may all be a moot point!
Linkage.
Try that.
Hmm, well 2 pages does not concensus make, and even in those 2 pages there is no agreement.
Assuming you can build POS (castles) for defense and territorial control the obvious next step is to make them dependant on smaller surrounding structures and inhabitants to one degree or another. This allows raiding to increase expenses, sieging to cut off supplies, etc. It still, however, makes the POS the roadblock that you need to take out.
Maybe you need to have two types of POS - planet based military POS for control, with guns, and civilian based mining POS with no significant weaponry. That allowsyou to break resource chains with raiding gangs but not kill sov.
Cheers,
Ruf. |
Selpuka
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 02:00:00 -
[137]
Time for a noobs first post
As a new player, I would hate to see anything change, its the game that got you long term players hooked,
But Im sure after 3-5 years of playing the game I would share the view with the vets,
Also like you guys say, it is hard joining a game like Eve due to the running time, as the vets of Eve are very good, and well 0.0 is just death for us, but in saying this it also gives us something to aim for, to pay back those evil gankers! 
The only thing that erks me, is that well, you get nothing from killing a noob, just another entry to your kill board, Ialways thought ransom would be far better :) but no one offers it :)
But Im here long term... first mmo for me same with flatmates. They are playing as well, and abunch of other mates, all new, all hooked
anyhow just a troll post, while Im at work,
and umm yeah so hello all
-Sel
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jongalt
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 02:24:00 -
[138]
im down with the OP[P].
eve needs serious competition.
-jg.
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Arlenna Molatov
Caldari
The 59th Parallel
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Posted - 2008.08.27 05:20:00 -
[139]
What we need is a complete server wipe!
Restart just like it was day 1 without the T2 BPOs though. Everything has to be invented.
Seriously....starting all over again....sounds kind of nice
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Reyoun
Tenacious Danes
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.08.27 06:10:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Reyoun on 27/08/2008 06:10:10
I totally agree with Arlenna Molatov
I've been playing EvE for 7 month or so but I'm still hopeless far behind 95% of the other players when it comes to skills.
No matter how much you specialize it will simply take you to long to ever get up there and start killing other players.
An announced server wipe sounds like a great idea, or perhaps just starting up another server... I bet I could get 5 - 10 of my friends to play EvE if we where to start from scratch.
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood
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Posted - 2008.08.27 06:15:00 -
[141]
Originally by: techzer0
since I'm signing up for a ball-n-chain next month
If I understand this correctly, congratulations.
Originally by: CCP Explorer
You can still steal their stuff.
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Kyra Lhasa
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Posted - 2008.08.27 06:17:00 -
[142]
im waiting for Darkfall to come out, will trump eve as a no holds barred permanent loss MMO. Its not vaporware I swear!
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.27 07:02:00 -
[143]
And, after you play a couple more months after a wipe, ANOTHER newcomer decides everybody is to old for them, and demands yet another server wipe. Hell, we should just have a server wipe every month ! Why, you know, how about DAILY wipes instead ?[/sarcasm]
Seriously, sometimes, the capacity of people to post things without thinking about any sort of consequences their suggestions might entail still can shock me at times.
_
SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Terianna Eri
Amarr
Scrutari
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 08:22:00 -
[144]
Well, they're clearly not worried about the "fluff" or "unique experience" anymore, either.
R.I.P. Veldnaught 
__________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 08:25:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Well, they're clearly not worried about the "fluff" or "unique experience" anymore, either.
R.I.P. Veldnaught
Even if i understand that you're rather disappointed and people are getting annoyed, please don't invade other threads with it?
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Terianna Eri
Amarr
Scrutari
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 08:37:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Well, they're clearly not worried about the "fluff" or "unique experience" anymore, either.
R.I.P. Veldnaught
Even if i understand that you're rather disappointed and people are getting annoyed, please don't invade other threads with it?
Wishin I had read this before I invaded, uh, yet another thread with it.
(thought it was more or less ontopic though)
__________________________________
CCP, WTH?
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
|
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 08:38:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Well, they're clearly not worried about the "fluff" or "unique experience" anymore, either.
R.I.P. Veldnaught
Even if i understand that you're rather disappointed and people are getting annoyed, please don't invade other threads with it?
Wishin I had read this before I invaded, uh, yet another thread with it.
(thought it was more or less ontopic though)
It's ok and understandable really
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.27 11:35:00 -
[148]
Well, it's just another example of "things CCP can afford to do anyway"
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SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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ShardowRhino
Caldari
Legion 0f The Damned
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Posted - 2008.08.27 11:46:00 -
[149]
useless thread without a point. You could say this about any game that is the first of its genre. Eventually someone is going to make another mmo thats different and they will have the same complaint.
Lets put it this way, you guys need to remember that CCP is running a business. In order to keep building your business you gotta build up the customer base. How far do you think Eve's current subscription base is going to take it? If youliked what they gave you the past few years then what could they do with 2x, 3x or 10x the funding they have had in the past?? How many ideas has ccp shelved or watered down in the past due to funding problems? What could they do if they had 10% more people working on eve??
The player base is going to stick around, at least those that have found their thing in game. Your subs are bound to stick around for some time. what ccp needs to do is get the new players into the game and pumping $$$$ into ccp's corp wallet. That money will undoubtedly be pumped back into eve.
whats that thing you guys do..
1.Get more newbies
2.GeT MOAR staff
3.Get MOAR!!! stuff done
4. ???????
5. PROFIT
sure complain and moan about what they are doing now but CCP is no sony online so I at least know where the sub money is going to ,unlike sony where its going to smedly's yacht and crispykreme antics.
OMFG< dont like the idea ofwalking around in stations??? then dont do it when it comes out. however it will bridge the gap between eve and other mmos. eve is rather faceless. at best you see small icons of each other's faces on the chat and in bios. The ships you only see up close when docked up and the rest of the time they are red crosses. In an icon driven world eve is faceless. its alien to new players and that hurts eve and ccp's ability to build up eve. Start bridging the gaps between eve and other mmos and you'll have more players hanging in longer or even trying the trial out.
new players need <3 to so it can't always be about the long time subscribers.
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Judas Jones
Amarr
Black Company
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Posted - 2008.08.27 11:47:00 -
[150]
In it's lifespan, Everquest, surpassed ALL other MMO's, it was the real launch playform that got the ball rolling for game's such as Eve and Wolrd of Warcraft. Even tho, at the time, speeds were limited to dial up with only a select few lucky enough to enjoy there 512k broad band connection, people still flocked to this monumental game, of its time, in there hundreds and thousands!
Then they released Everquest 2... it flopped.
Starwars Galaxies, enjoyed by many a fan, with one of the most dedicated and largest resource, I.E the fanbase that any franchise could hope to tap into. People enoyed wielding there light sabres, after spending months earning it, running around in seedy bars, getting up to all kinds of mischief in the name of the force or your local pimp.
Then they released NGE... it flopped.
Eve Online, this was once regarded as the only viable space sim, seeing off the competition from, err, well think it had one real competitor in its first five years for that genre. Marketed as a PvP game, people could invest years of there life to train for and become good in certain aspects, utilising game mechanics to there full use even if this was beyond the sight of the original developers. Along the way, things got bumpy, first with CCP getting caught cheating and by the consistant server stability issues.
Then they changed game mechanics which weren't 'broken', removed all High Sec capital ship landmarks, alienated there player base, didn't communicate effectively anymore and many people saw the forthcoming PvE nerf in High Sec on the horizon, just beyond the wreckage that was the once mighty Veldnaught.
Let's see how this ends...
Complaisancy in business when dealing with ones customers, has never, nor will it ever be a smart or economically sound move.
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ShardowRhino
Caldari
Legion 0f The Damned
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Posted - 2008.08.27 12:32:00 -
[151]
What nerf to pve are you talking about? You don't think whiners = policy do you? I've seen people whine all day about certain things, for years in fact and it never got changed because it WASN'T broken.
The things that have got changed were broken. nos nerf balanced vampire setups, mainly the domi where its primary weapons were drones. The way nos was negated the need for neutralizers. It was the opposite of the nano***gotry we will see come to an end soon but not soon enough. You couldn't defend yourself and most couldn't fight back. Nerfing it brought nos in line and broke the gallante flavor of the month deal.
Nanonerf will break the crap where its impossible to do damage to someone or hit them. Even if you could hit them they could still flee at will as though they were using a rack of prenerfed warpstabs.
Bringing up prenerf warpstabs, I'm sure not a lot of people miss that crap since it was essentially nano on the cheap. Your about to get killed?? thats fine cause you got +3 warpstrength over the other side's tacklers that are all over you.
Or is it the change to ganking in highsec thats the problem? Is it really going to be such a massive change that people that made big money off of it will decide to do overpowered l4s instead? Or will they simply say
F***it, lets do it anyways!".
I haven't seen real deal breaking nerfs thrown at the player base. As for the capital ship in empire nerf , who cares? That effected a whole.....handful of people? If you really want to see capital ships, i mean really just have to see them, make an alt, get in a shuttle and run for the latest bob fight and check out their batch of titans. That change isn't going to hurt the majority of players or even the minority since i dont call a few people the minority out of 20k people on at once. its microscopic at best. Why did they change it? Don't know, don't care and im sure theres a reason for it that won't matter to me or the vast majority of eve players.
The only real big nerfs i know of have held the game back. Things that caused the game to become the same old thing as everyone starts going for a specific set up or even the same exact ship with just 1 or 2 ships able to counter it other then a clone. Each race should be just as viable in pvp as the next. Each ship of the same class of a different race should be a threat to each other and smaller ships. SHips that are designed for speed should be the ones with the top speed while bigger ,slower ships should never be able to compete especially while sporting better shields,armor and firepower.
What I do see is ccp breaking down the brick walls that EVE has been running into for as long as I have been a player in it.
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Reyoun
Tenacious Danes
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.08.27 12:42:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Akita T
And, after you play a couple more months after a wipe, ANOTHER newcomer decides everybody is to old for them, and demands yet another server wipe. Hell, we should just have a server wipe every month ! Why, you know, how about DAILY wipes instead ?[/sarcasm]
Seriously, sometimes, the capacity of people to post things without thinking about any sort of consequences their suggestions might entail still can shock me at times.
Instead of flaming why don't you contribute with ideas to solve the problem?
We all know this is a serious problem and a large reason why many newbies stop playing or won't even bother doing the trial.
As late as last night I talked to a buddy who plays WOW, I was trying to convince him to play EvE instead and this was exactly the excuse he gave me to not even try the game.
I personally found my thing in EvE and won't stop playing because I'm far behind. But I know for a fact that's not how it goes for a lot of other people.
(Besides, I would love to see the game evolve from the day 1 with 2 million players all equal on skills and Isk). I'm pretty confident though that it will never happen and maybe it's best that way. But you can't get around this being a problem.
Ball is yours.
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ShardowRhino
Caldari
Legion 0f The Damned
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Posted - 2008.08.27 13:00:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Reyoun
Originally by: Akita T
And, after you play a couple more months after a wipe, ANOTHER newcomer decides everybody is to old for them, and demands yet another server wipe. Hell, we should just have a server wipe every month ! Why, you know, how about DAILY wipes instead ?[/sarcasm]
Seriously, sometimes, the capacity of people to post things without thinking about any sort of consequences their suggestions might entail still can shock me at times.
Instead of flaming why don't you contribute with ideas to solve the problem?
We all know this is a serious problem and a large reason why many newbies stop playing or won't even bother doing the trial.
As late as last night I talked to a buddy who plays WOW, I was trying to convince him to play EvE instead and this was exactly the excuse he gave me to not even try the game.
I personally found my thing in EvE and won't stop playing because I'm far behind. But I know for a fact that's not how it goes for a lot of other people.
(Besides, I would love to see the game evolve from the day 1 with 2 million players all equal on skills and Isk). I'm pretty confident though that it will never happen and maybe it's best that way. But you can't get around this being a problem.
Ball is yours.
I don't see how what you quoted was a "problem". Seriously who would still play if they did a server wipe? I'd go find something else to do instead of waiting for months to get skills trained up to then spend a full month to train certain level 5s id never want to do again. Time=SP="skill" to some degree.
I wouldn't want to play eve after a wipe even if it was grind based. Who really looks back at their time in a game and go "damn i wish i could grind all that crap over again, damn it was fuN!!!!". If for some reason someone did they could by making an alt. They can have their masochistic fun without ****ing off the majority of the playerbase. No one plays a game for the grind factor.
If your friend in wow said no to eve because of the difference in sp between a noob and someone thats been around for years, how is that a surprise? Ask him if he would want to keep playing wow if some new players complained that everyone was max level and had the best gear and wanted a server wipe. Would he still resub and start all over again at level 1 with only that character? chances are he would say no just due to the time it would take. Of course there would be the idea that blizzard just stabbed him and the rest of the wow population for a few people that haven't played the game.
how bout instead of complaining about people saying the truth you go and actually consider how stupid a wipe would be and why your friend plays wow. some of the things people post on the forum is amazingly stupid and lacks any thought beyond the immediate thought. Seriously how many customers would ccp lose vs how many they would gain with a server wipe? Would your friend HONESTLY play eve if they did such a stupid thing?
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Reyoun
Tenacious Danes
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.08.27 13:11:00 -
[154]
Edited by: Reyoun on 27/08/2008 13:12:31
Edited by: Reyoun on 27/08/2008 13:11:38
How do you suggest this problem could be solved now that you are so smart and I'm the one just posting stupid things?
Oh, you have no clue! besides, you don't give a s.hit because it's not your problem?
I'm not saying a server wipe would be a good idea, I'm mentioning it as a way to solve the problem but of course it's unrealistic. that's also why I suggested that CCP could start another server, but then again, that wouldn't be a way of solving the problem either.
I'm sorry for ruining your forum experience and annoying your mighty brains with my stupidity by posting bull, but seriously, this is a very big problem, if EvE wish to stay in business, the older players wish to keep playing and further more wish for the player base to grow. I thought this was common knowledge? Yet, i see no solutions.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.27 13:15:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Reyoun
Instead of flaming why don't you contribute with ideas to solve the problem?
We all know this is a serious problem and a large reason why many newbies stop playing or won't even bother doing the trial.
Because there IS NO problem.
It might be one of the reasons SOME refuse to start playing, but it's by far and large NOT a huge problem.
I see older players selling their characters for ISK and starting from scratch all the time, I see newbies buying old characters and having no clue what to do with it.
Also, the so-called issue... well, players start now with 800+k worth of skills in 20-30-ish USEFUL skills (you used to have to play for over a month AND spend some good amount of ISK to get to that point), advanced learning skills prerequisites were dropped from L5 basic to L4 basic (which means that with the least bit of ISK and minimal additional time you further increase your training time on average by another 30-ish percent compared to the start of a player from 2 years ago), IMPLANTS GOT DIRT CHEAP, a set of +3 is trivial to get, etc.
Compared to when I started this char (whoa, L4 basic learnings and +1 implants after a month, with barely about half a mil of non-learning SP... oh yes, I *ROCK*, rofl), new players have it so easy that it's almost laughable.
Also, SURE, you WON'T be able to compete 1-vs-1 with a dozens-of-mil-SP veteran in your first month... but you'll be pretty damned freaking close in performance with a cheap-ish PvP setup. Two or three of you with a bit of training WILL be able to kill him in a 3-vs-1 scenario.
So, yeah, there's no DIRECT powerlevelling, and there's no immediate level cap... but then again SP difference matters a lot less compared to numbers.
SURE, somebody with a lot of experience under their belt AND loads more SP AND pretty expensive fits *WILL* whoop your ass even if there's several of you AND you're all inexperienced... but what the hell do you expect ?
And, FYI, there's enough "carebear" vets that create fresh PvP alts instead of skilling up their mains... the clone system and their heads full of precious implants they want to keep on using makes them want another char for that.
Last but not least, you're MORE than free to just quasi-powerlevel:
* buy GTCs from retailer
* sell GTCs for ISK to other players
* buy high-SP character
The sad part is that right now, the cost of skills PLUS the cost of GTCs that would be needed to raise SP to that level is usually MUCH HIGHER than the ISK price high-SP characters go for.
So, there you have it... it's not only faster, but also CHEAPER to just buy an older char.
And there's friggin loads of them around.
Quote:
As late as last night I talked to a buddy who plays WOW, I was trying to convince him to play EvE instead and this was exactly the excuse he gave me to not even try the game.
Apparently you believe this is actually an issue yourself, otherwise you would have explained to him that it's not.
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SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.27 16:46:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Reyoun
angry venting followed by silence
Cat got your tongue ?
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SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.27 19:07:00 -
[157]
And before I forget it AGAIN...
...the EVE-Wiki they've been promising for YEARS (in some form or another)
We even had a devblog about it, blah blah in testing blah... then utter and complete silence.
It's a WIKI dammit, what the hell is taking so long ?
I've seen snails crawl faster.
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SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Arlenna Molatov
Caldari
The 59th Parallel
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Posted - 2008.08.28 03:16:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Akita T
And, after you play a couple more months after a wipe, ANOTHER newcomer decides everybody is to old for them, and demands yet another server wipe. Hell, we should just have a server wipe every month ! Why, you know, how about DAILY wipes instead ?[/sarcasm]
Seriously, sometimes, the capacity of people to post things without thinking about any sort of consequences their suggestions might entail still can shock me at times.
And YOU are who again? Oh noone, just like the rest of us, sorry, I forgot.
If you are that ****y, I suggest you go find a hooker and get laid.
I've been playing since beta-4. I could give a rats a s s if you like my oppinion or not, you've obviously spent many a post in here voicing yours so I will voice mine. Don't like it, don't read it.
My post wasn't directed at anything in here as I only read the first page.
Any game gets old after awhile, much less 5 years of it. And you say consequences? What consequences might that be....YOU and I and everyone else starting from scratch, just like we did that fateful day 5+ years ago?
Excuse me while I p i s s in your cherrios a little more. Are you that obsessed with stoking yourself with all the make-believe stuff you have in this game that you can't fathom doing it all again? I do believe I know the answer to that question already so I won't go any further.
I don't know abotu anyone else but a good "restart" now and then is a healthy thing. Especially with people like you who are a little too obsessed and psychotic with the way things are in the game right now.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.28 03:22:00 -
[159]
Edited by: Akita T on 28/08/2008 03:23:00
Originally by: Arlenna Molatov
My post wasn't directed at anything in here as I only read the first page.
Then why did you feel the need to quote a very specific post of mine that was NOT on the first page ?
While completely ignoring the follow-up to that post ?
Quote:
Are you that obsessed with stoking yourself with all the make-believe stuff you have in this game that you can't fathom doing it all again?
Let's see... two years of skill training, ISK spent on skills and implants, assets and whatnot, everything wiped ?
You bet your ass I won't be doing them again, and at least 80% of the current population wouldn't either.
Quote:
I don't know abotu anyone else but a good "restart" now and then is a healthy thing.
If disgusted looks could kill, the fallout would wipe out the universe.
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SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Wrayeth
Trans Eve Organization
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Posted - 2008.08.28 03:25:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Akita T
Let's see... two years of skill training, ISK spent on skills and implants, assets and whatnot, everything wiped ?
You bet your ass I won't be doing them again, and at least 80% of the current population wouldn't either.
This. Except it's 4 years, in my case. I can finally fly most of the ships and setups that I want, and I'll be damned if I want to start over again flying ships I dislike.
Quote:
I don't know abotu anyone else but a good "restart" now and then is a healthy thing.
It depends on what you're restarting. For EVE...just NO.
-Wrayeth
n00b Extraordinaire
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
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Arlenna Molatov
Caldari
The 59th Parallel
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Posted - 2008.08.28 03:28:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 28/08/2008 03:23:00
Originally by: Arlenna Molatov
My post wasn't directed at anything in here as I only read the first page.
Then why did you feel the need to quote a very specific post of mine that was NOT on the first page ?
While completely ignoring the follow-up to that post ?
Quote:
Are you that obsessed with stoking yourself with all the make-believe stuff you have in this game that you can't fathom doing it all again?
Let's see... two years of skill training, ISK spent on skills and implants, assets and whatnot, everything wiped ?
You bet your ass I won't be doing them again, and at least 80% of the current population wouldn't either.
Quote:
I don't know abotu anyone else but a good "restart" now and then is a healthy thing.
If disgusted looks could kill, the fallout would wipe out the universe.
And it was YOU that quoted my post. If you bothered to LOOK, my first post in the whole thread was merely my thought on the whole thing. And I certainly didn't quote YOU as, again, you are a nobody in a sea of nobodies.
And like I said, you don't like what I say, then dont f**king read it and certainly don't quote it in another post
BTW- you really need to get laid. Really.
Last time I checked, you don't speak for any % of the player base, so you can stuff your self-righteousness back up your a s s there mate.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.28 03:30:00 -
[162]
Edited by: Akita T on 28/08/2008 03:34:40
Originally by: Arlenna Molatov
Last time I checked, you don't speak for any % of the player base, so you can stuff your self-righteousness back up your a s s there mate.
Want a show of hands on that one ?
Quote:
And like I said, you don't like what I say, then dont f**king read it and certainly don't quote it in another post
If I don't like what you say, I will explain to you in painful, excruciating details why exactly you're wrong.
Quote:
BTW- you really need to get laid. Really.
Words fail me again in describing just how wrong you can possibly be with this statement.
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SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Judge Ment
Aeon Interstellar Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.08.28 03:31:00 -
[163]
Anyway CCP can replace the player base?
I've seen corporation fire older employees, maybe CCP can learn from this
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Arlenna Molatov
Caldari
The 59th Parallel
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Posted - 2008.08.28 03:33:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Arlenna Molatov
Last time I checked, you don't speak for any % of the player base, so you can stuff your self-righteousness back up your a s s there mate.
Want a show of hands on that one ?
I really don't care. I stated my thought on it and if you can't possibly accept someone else's thoughts then...well....too bad
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.28 03:36:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Arlenna Molatov
I really don't care. I stated my thought on it and if you can't possibly accept someone else's thoughts then...well....too bad
ACCEPT a thought ?
As in, acknowledge its existance ? Sure do.
But as in "agree with it even if it's downright moronic" ? HELL NO.
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SHOPS || Mission rewards revamp || better nanofix
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Arkadrel
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Posted - 2008.08.28 03:53:00 -
[166]
resetting a mmo goes against any mmo fundimentals.
so text based games like Utopia (games.swirve.com) have ages where you play and the game is about getting to the top by use of best stragatie (each age all the stats ect are changed so what worked one age probably wont the next).
mmos always head forwards, I think there should just be constantly added more content.
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Rifter Drifter
Minmatar
Greatly Reducing Inflation Every Fight
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Posted - 2008.08.28 03:59:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 28/08/2008 03:37:23
Originally by: Arlenna Molatov
I really don't care. I stated my thought on it and if you can't possibly accept someone else's thoughts then...well....too bad
ACCEPT a thought ?
As in, acknowledge its existance ? Sure do.
But as in "agree with it even if it's downright moronic" ? HELL NO.
Let me say this again : the IDEA of RESETTING the game is MORONIC.
THIS IS CORRECT
that other stupid person needs to shush.. on these here forumz akita generally speaks wise words
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Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.08.28 04:14:00 -
[168]
This isn't diablo II ladders you know.
I'm with the 'hell no' to the restart crowd. Yeah, not quite 2 years old. But as above, I'm finally getting to the point where I can fly and fit things. Months of waiting on useless timesink skills to get here. A restart would definitely send me packing.
3 years from now? Who knows. But right now it'd be a definite.
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