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Cloaking is fine. Stop trying to get it nerfed.

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Mighty Ahti Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.27 02:29:00 - [1] K, every few hours there's a thread on nerfing cloakers. There will be more (which is why this is more of a logical rant) and there will be people who say that it's required. But here's what I've learned from reading those threads: Cloaking doesn't require any capacitor to use, it doesn't require a fuel, nor does it require any activity from the player who is cloaking. Cloaking requires that a player (unless in a special ship) cannot move their ship any distance respective to the solar system, they need to stay on a single grid at all times. If they are in a covert ops ship, they can move around but have a minimum 5 second targetting delay once they decloak. They allow a player to remain off the scanner, off overview and stay in local. Effectively scaring the people in local from leaving the station if they don't want to risk their ship. Players believe a nerf of cloaking is required because people come into system and sit at a safe spot cloaked, preventing players from interacting in that system without a risk. Yes, you read that correctly. People don't want a risk while playing the game, at war or in a hostile area. So let's sum this up: Cloaks prevent people from taking any action while they're active. People are complaining that people aren't taking action when they're active. People are whining that cloaking provides a completely safe method of sitting in a system doing nothing. People are johnning that having a hostile in system in a cloaked vessel prevents them from doing what they were doing before that individual entered the system. Here are some other solutions that I can suggest for the people who are whining and complaining. Stop it. If the people are completely inactive while cloaked, why do you care? They are inactive, go do what you want. If the people are sitting there watching you, goto another system where they aren't watching you. What's that? You only have one lvl 4 quality 10+ agent? Boohoo, go get another one? Or better yet, go out anyway and mission under their noses in a gang, they won't bother attacking you solo that way, and as long as you're watching your trusty local you could see any extra incomings. For people in 0.0 who dislike their ratters safing and cloaking, why don't you just stick your own cloaker in the system and prevent him from getting anything done? It works both ways.
Strill	Posted - 2008.08.27 03:01:00 - [2] Edited by: Strill on 27/08/2008 03:01:43 Quote: They allow a player to remain off the scanner, off overview and stay in local. Effectively scaring the people in local from leaving the station if they don't want to risk their ship. Players believe a nerf of cloaking is required because people come into system and sit at a safe spot cloaked, preventing players from interacting in that system without a risk. Yes, you read that correctly. People don't want a risk while playing the game, at war or in a hostile area. No, the cloaker's presence makes the risks outweigh the rewards. You're not making any sense. You expect people to risk hundreds of millions of isk in their ship for some ore or mission/rat loot? You'd have to be stupid to do that. Originally by: Mighty Ahti If the people are completely inactive while cloaked, why do you care? They are inactive, go do what you want. If the people are sitting there watching you, goto another system where they aren't watching you. What's that? You only have one lvl 4 quality 10+ agent? Boohoo, go get another one? Or better yet, go out anyway and mission under their noses in a gang, they won't bother attacking you solo that way, and as long as you're watching your trusty local you could see any extra incomings. Why should people be forced to make all these compromises just because one guy decided to camp out in a system cloaked? You've made my point for me. Quote: For people in 0.0 who dislike their ratters safing and cloaking, why don't you just stick your own cloaker in the system and prevent him from getting anything done? It works both ways. Because I don't care about how inconvenienced he is, I just want to go on with what I'm doing. Needing to blow him up to do that is just a technicality.
Inara Subaka Caldari the united	Posted - 2008.08.27 06:09:00 - [3] One of the few threads I can honestly say: /signed
Anig Browl Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.27 06:38:00 - [4] Originally by: Strill No, the cloaker's presence makes the risks outweigh the rewards. You're not making any sense. You expect people to risk hundreds of millions of isk in their ship for some ore or mission/rat loot? You'd have to be stupid to do that. Oh boo hoo. I cloak regularly...in my t1 hauler. Theoretically I could be in my battleship getting ready to do you harm, but like I'm going to risk crippling a high-end ship by being unable to target/lock for many seconds after I expose myself. Grow a spine already, just watch your overview carefully. While a covert ship like a stealth bomber can do some harsh damage, they are resistible and not very strong if you counter-attack. If you are mining then align and cut your speed to 0, boosting your speed for warp if someone decloaks is a lot faster than the actual alignment itself. You can probably be gone while they are trying to lock you.
Mighty Ahti Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.27 09:29:00 - [5] Edited by: Mighty Ahti on 27/08/2008 09:32:23 Originally by: Strill No, the cloaker's presence makes the risks outweigh the rewards. You're not making any sense. You expect people to risk hundreds of millions of isk in their ship for some ore or mission/rat loot? You'd have to be stupid to do that. Isn't that what eve is about? Tilting odds in your favour? And in high sec there is ALWAYS a risk, just because someone has a cloaker in system doesn't mean you can't move over one system to prevent them from causing a problem. And as I said, it's not like they lock you instantly (and stealth bombers cannot warp cloaked), stay aligned in a mission like you should anyway, and warp the hell out if/when they uncloak. In short, you're risking that hundreds of millions of isk each time you go out missioning. Even without a hostile entity in system. It's just another risk that you can avoid. Originally by: Strill Why should people be forced to make all these compromises just because one guy decided to camp out in a system cloaked? You've made my point for me. How have I made your point. By your perspective you're saying that anyone trying to get by a dictor camp in 0.0 should be able to simply because one guy decided to sit on a gate and spew bubbles out whenever someone jumps in. One person SHOULD be able to disrupt the isk making of people if they only have one system in which they do it. Originally by: Strill Because I don't care about how inconvenienced he is, I just want to go on with what I'm doing. Needing to blow him up to do that is just a technicality. So this is a "Me, and not them" situation right? You want this because you're inconvenienced by having them in local and yet you're too lazy to take 5 minute steps around it? Go find more ways to make isk than simply running missions each day. Make an alt. Do something other than complain that you can't make money because someone is taking the time to disrupt you from doing so. Originally by: Anig Browl If you are mining then align and cut your speed to 0, boosting your speed for warp if someone decloaks is a lot faster than the actual alignment itself. You can probably be gone while they are trying to lock you. Having your speed at 0 means it doesn't matter which direction you're facing. You will align the same speed. However, making sure you have a clear path to your exit point is a good idea.
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2008.08.27 10:03:00 - [6] The nerf is coming! Nano-***gotry now, cloaks later. Enjoy immunity while you can.
marakor Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers	Posted - 2008.08.27 10:09:00 - [7] Edited by: marakor on 27/08/2008 10:15:24 Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass The nerf is coming! Nano-**gotry now, cloaks later. Enjoy immunity while you can. OMG another moron who wants eve to be set to rtard level.
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2008.08.27 10:17:00 - [8] Naw, I'd just like to see it as a real multiplayer game. Nano's and cloaks pander to the solo play styles of people who like immunity when they choose.
marakor Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers	Posted - 2008.08.27 10:27:00 - [9] Originally by: Strill No, the cloaker's presence makes the risks outweigh the rewards. You're not making any sense. You expect people to risk hundreds of millions of isk in their ship for some ore or mission/rat loot? You'd have to be stupid to do that. 0.0 = risk, if you want to reduce that risk you need to be in a gang so you can defend each other. Originally by: Strill Why should people be forced to make all these compromises just because one guy decided to camp out in a system cloaked?. Because its 0.0 and 0.0 gives no free rides to anybody, if the cloaker is AFK he is no threat if he is not he can just as easily bounce around making new safe spots. Either way he will disrupt disorganized carebears while organized carebears will be able to ignore him. In fact bouncing safes will not let you know when he is attacking as he will always be on your scanner while a cloaker will just apper and so give you at least a little warning. Originally by: Strill Because I don't care about how inconvenienced he is, I just want to go on with what I'm doing. Exactly, your only interested in making your 0.0 life easy and safe.
marakor Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers	Posted - 2008.08.27 10:30:00 - [10] Edited by: marakor on 27/08/2008 10:32:31 Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Naw, I'd just like to see it as a real multiplayer game. Nano's and cloaks pander to the solo play styles of people who like immunity when they choose. NANO is best used and normally used in gangs plus it is not immune and cloaking in hostile systems forces ppl to be in organized gangs to defend themselves (and makes them invulnerable as well while the cloaker is cloaked). So unless your lying you should support both.
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2008.08.27 10:48:00 - [11] I'd glad nano's are gettin nerfed. The only counter to nano (solo or gang) is more nano. If you don't like the fight, turn on your MWD and fly away. Immunity. Cloaking will get nerfed. There is no counter for cloaking. Whether it's a raven ratting in 0.0, or one person trying to intimidate/disrupt/spy on a rival corp or alliance, they are immune to everything.
Acidictadpole ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2008.08.27 10:52:00 - [12] Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass I'd glad nano's are gettin nerfed. The only counter to nano (solo or gang) is more nano. If you don't like the fight, turn on your MWD and fly away. Immunity. Cloaking will get nerfed. There is no counter for cloaking. Whether it's a raven ratting in 0.0, or one person trying to intimidate/disrupt/spy on a rival corp or alliance, they are immune to everything. Thing is: You can activate weapons with your MWD going. You can't do anything while you're cloaked. It's fine. Don't get scammed
marakor Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:00:00 - [13] Edited by: marakor on 27/08/2008 11:03:35 Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass I'd glad nano's are gettin nerfed. The only counter to nano (solo or gang) is more nano. If you don't like the fight, turn on your MWD and fly away. Immunity. The counter to NANO is not more NANO its a varied well balanced and well led team of varied ship types and fittings working well together. Not engaging in the first place = immunity. Sitting in a pos = immunity. Staying docked = immunity. Station hugging and docking = immunity. Gate hugging and jumping = immunity. Hugging pos bubble and entering = immunity. Range+staying aligned and warping if summat comes close = immunity. ect ect ect..... Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Cloaking will get nerfed. There is no counter for cloaking. Whether it's a raven ratting in 0.0, or one person trying to intimidate/disrupt/spy on a rival corp or alliance, they are immune to everything. 1. Cloaking is a counter its a counter to probes and getting scanned out. 2. The drawback to using the counter to probes and scanning (cloaking) is being able to effect nothing in your environment until you uncloak, and even them have a huge delay before you can lock or interact. 3. Spies do not need to use cloaks they just join with alts, its a much more effective way of gaining intel. 4. If you corp/alliance can be intimidated or disrupted by a cloaker i suggest you swap to one that does not suck.
Torothanax	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:03:00 - [14] Originally by: Acidictadpole Thing is: You can activate weapons with your MWD going. You can't do anything while you're cloaked. It's fine. You don't have to activate your weapons while cloaked. You wait until combat favors you, then drop cloak to activate your weapons. You choose when to attack, and no one can ever force you to engage or leave or anything else. Cloaking is complete invunerability.
marakor Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:09:00 - [15] Edited by: marakor on 27/08/2008 11:14:50 Originally by: Torothanax You don't have to activate your weapons while cloaked. Good cos you cannot do it any way or warp or move at any reasonable speed or lock....... Originally by: Torothanax You wait until combat favors you, then drop cloak to activate your weapons. You need to lock the target first and there is a huge locking delay penalty. Originally by: Torothanax You choose when to attack, and no one can ever force you to engage or leave or anything else. A lot like being docked or in a pos or bouncing around safe spots......... Originally by: Torothanax Cloaking is complete invulnerability. To both the cloaker and the prey until the cloaker drops the claok and then the cloaker becomes very vulnerable because of the locking dely.
marakor Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:10:00 - [16] Why be more honest not call this thread: WWWAAAAA I WANNA MINE AND RAT IN 0.0 WITHOUT BEING ORGANIZED OR IN A GANG WAAAAAAAAAAA.
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:22:00 - [17] Originally by: marakor The counter to NANO is not more NANO its a varied well balanced and well led team of varied ship types and fittings working well together. A single nano ship takes a better nano to kill OR a combination of 2 or more ships to kill. Rapier a bubble and somthing to do damage. A falcon an interceptor and a command ship to give speed bonuses. Or any number of other combinations of at least 2 ships. One ship should not need several to beat it. Nano gangs are even worse. This is the basis of blob warfare. Nano's then have 2 counters. Nano and blob. They rightfully deserve the nerf bat. Thier prevelence just backs this. Originally by: marakor Not engaging in the first place = immunity. Sitting in a pos = immunity. Staying docked = immunity. Station hugging and docking = immunity. Gate hugging and jumping = immunity. Hugging pos bubble and entering = immunity. Range+staying aligned and warping if summat comes close = immunity. ect ect ect..... Station hide and seek is about the only other immunity. Well hiding in high as part of an npc corp is pretty close too. POS's can be destroyed so they have a counter. De-agressing and passing through a gate is lamesauce, but it's a far cry from immunity. I'd make the timer for docking and jumping 5 minutes if it was up to me. Originally by: marakor 1. Cloaking is a counter its a counter to probes and getting scanned out. Yer absolutely right. Cloaking is the counter to everything.
Mostly Amazing Gallente Mostly Amazing Corp	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:26:00 - [18] Cloaking does need a fix. I can wake up, login to eve, fly to a hostile system with three accounts flying pvp ships and cloak. Then i can leave my comp on all day and come back hours later still alive and safe. While doing that 100 hostiles were unable to act on my presence and had to choose between not doing any mining, ratting, exploration etc. at all or do it anyways and risk getting jumped. Quote: If the people are completely inactive while cloaked, why do you care? Because you don't know if they are inactive. If you knew that there wouldn't be a problem. Quote: If the people are sitting there watching you, goto another system where they aren't watching you. People shouldn't have to move in their own systems because of one cloaker which they can't touch. Quote: For people in 0.0 who dislike their ratters safing and cloaking, why don't you just stick your own cloaker in the system and prevent him from getting anything done? It works both ways. It's not about being able to counter him. It's about how cloakers can waste other people's time so much by moving/arranging protection etc. while the cloaker himself isn't even playing the game. -------------- I R Not Completely Amazing, But I R Mostly Amazing
marakor Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:29:00 - [19] Edited by: marakor on 27/08/2008 11:38:09 Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass A single SNIPER ship takes a better SNIPER to kill OR a combination of 2 or more ships to kill. FAST TACKLER and something to do damage. One ship should not need several to beat it. SNIPER gangs are even worse. This is the basis of blob warfare. SNIPERS then have 2 counters. SNIPER and blob. They rightfully deserve the nerf bat. Thier prevalence just backs this. FIXED. Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Station hide and seek is immunity. POS's can be destroyed unless they have stront in and then you need to wait days if theirs enough.. De-agressing and passing through a gate or docking is THE MOST COMMON FORM OF IMMUNITY USED Originally by: marakor 1. Cloaking is a counter its a counter to probes and getting scanned out. Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Yer absolutely right. Cloaking is the counter to everything while also countering everything on the ship it is fitted to, and so its perfectly balanced. AAAAND fixed.
Torothanax	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:29:00 - [20] Originally by: marakor Why be more honest not call this thread: WWWAAAAA I WANNA MINE AND RAT IN 0.0 WITHOUT BEING ORGANIZED OR IN A GANG WAAAAAAAAAAA. I think that's the end of rational discusion. I'm not even sure what your point is other then you are afraid to play the game without your cloak.
Wrangler Al Caldari Shadow's Hunters Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:30:00 - [21] Dude.. Grow up. Cloaks make people uneasy, but they are part of the game and there are way around it. I do think however there should be a probe type that can be used to scan a grid, and it shows up on overview (like a cyno) so if the cloaker is active he can simply leave grid/move out of its scan range.. If he is afk..then he is dumb and will die.
marakor Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:33:00 - [22] Originally by: Torothanax Originally by: marakor Why be more honest not call this thread: WWWAAAAA I WANNA MINE AND RAT IN 0.0 WITHOUT BEING ORGANIZED OR IN A GANG WAAAAAAAAAAA. I think that's the end of rational discusion. I'm not even sure what your point is other then you are afraid to play the game without your cloak. How about you rational your self into a organized corp or alliance and get into gangs when you rat or mine in 0.0, instead of crying to ccp to make eve be played in easy mode.
marakor Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:37:00 - [23] Edited by: marakor on 27/08/2008 11:38:45 Originally by: Mostly Amazing While doing that 100 hostiles were unable to act on my presence and had to choose between not doing any mining, ratting, exploration etc. at all or do it anyways and risk getting jumped. 100 hostiles all unable to work together and form gangs to rat and mine because of a couple of cloakers. You and the other 99 are pathetic if that is true, and if its not your still pathetic for even trying to make ppl believe it.
Marcus Gideon Gallente Excessive Force	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:49:00 - [24] Originally by: marakor Edited by: marakor on 27/08/2008 11:38:45 Originally by: Mostly Amazing While doing that 100 hostiles were unable to act on my presence and had to choose between not doing any mining, ratting, exploration etc. at all or do it anyways and risk getting jumped. 100 hostiles all unable to work together and form gangs to rat and mine because of a couple of cloakers. You and the other 99 are pathetic if that is true, and if its not your still pathetic for even trying to make ppl believe it. Isn't it usually 1 ship losing horribly to the 100 ships Camping the Stargate? I'd absolutely LOVE to see ^ this ^ result when a CovOps enters the system and makes it past the Campers. "OMG!!1! He made it out! He's gone off somewhere and cloaked! Quick, retreat to the station and don't come out until he's left!!!1!one!1" --- Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. "Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST"
Mostly Amazing Gallente Mostly Amazing Corp	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:53:00 - [25] Originally by: marakor Edited by: marakor on 27/08/2008 11:38:45 Originally by: Mostly Amazing While doing that 100 hostiles were unable to act on my presence and had to choose between not doing any mining, ratting, exploration etc. at all or do it anyways and risk getting jumped. 100 hostiles all unable to work together and form gangs to rat and mine because of a couple of cloakers. You and the other 99 are pathetic if that is true, and if its not your still pathetic for even trying to make ppl believe it. That is exactly the point, 100 hostiles have to gang up and patrol constantly because of a single a cloaker. One person shouldn't be able to effect the game of 100 people by not even playing the game. -------------- I R Not Completely Amazing, But I R Mostly Amazing
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:57:00 - [26] Edited by: Fullmetal Jackass on 27/08/2008 11:57:30 Originally by: marakor A single SNIPER ship takes a better SNIPER to kill Snipers need a tackler. Send a covert ops in to tackle, warp in on top of them. 2 vs 2. Close range beats sniper in straight up dps. If the sniper has a cloak, yer **ed. Originally by:** marakor POS's can be destroyed unless they have stront in and then you need to wait days if theirs enough.. 24 hours is the max re-enforced possible. Then they have to go in and recharge the shields and refuel it. Working as intended. People can't play 24/7. Originally by: marakor De-agressing and passing through a gate is THE MOST COMMON FORM OF IMMUNITY USED Have someone one each side of the gate. Der. Learn 2 gate camp. Originally by: marakor Yer absolutely right. Cloaking is the counter to everything while also countering the ship it is fitted to so perfectly balanced. Say what? Speaky engrish? Anyone who uses a cloak is immune to everything. Period. Solo ratters. Solo gankers. Scouts. PVPers. Carebears. ISK farmer. Cap pilots. ******s. Yer mom. Whoever. A cloak is the ultimate "I never lose" button. saying a ship that uses a cloak can't attack is asinine. "The lock time is too long"! Most aggressors who use a cloak, are in a stealth bomber or a recon. Stealth bombers have ZERO decloaking lock dealy. Recons use a Cov ops cloak that has a 5 second delay. Get the cloak skill to 4 and it's a 3 sec delay. Level 5 is a 2.5 second delay. Recons warp cloaked. So do Cov ops. Stealth bomber get a movement speed bonus while cloaked. Anyone else using a cloak is trying to avoid pvp. All are immune when to EVERYTHING when they want to be. A gate camp is the only thing you have to even remotely worry about. How can anyone say that an in game mechanic that lets a player completely avoid combat is not broken?
Marcus Gideon Gallente Excessive Force	Posted - 2008.08.27 12:06:00 - [27] Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Most aggressors who use a cloak, are in a stealth bomber or a recon. Both of which have pretty paper thin armor, right? So you get hit by a few missiles, and YOUR BUDDY BESIDE YOU returns fire and kills them. But wait... you want to SOLO 0.0 don't you? So you want combat to play fair for you all by your lonesome. Quote: How can anyone say that an in game mechanic that lets a player completely avoid combat is not broken? But... I thought you said you were getting ganked constantly by those nasty Stealths? Now they're avoiding combat... while killing you... at the same time? And who's to say that avoiding combat is a bad thing, except the players who crave their daily dose of blood and carnage. If someone is hiding in a distant corner of the system... THEY AREN'T A THREAT. If someone is flying a cloaked BS... THEY AREN'T A THREAT. They could become a threat, after they decloak and get over their delay. If someone is flying a cloaked Stealth... they ARE a threat, for as long as their armor stays in place. So travel with friends, and when they show up (if they're stupid enough to decloak in front of an organized group) then you all unload in their direction and Salvage the wreck. Sounds to me... like all the complaints... are about how 0.0 space is just TOO HARD to survive in... Gee, never would have imagined --- Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. "Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST"
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2008.08.27 12:31:00 - [28] Originally by: marakor NANO needs to be tackled so uncloak a rapier (or nuet ship) near them lock, web/nuet, point, dmg, kill NANO's 1 vs 1. Vaga beat raipier one on one, so you lose. And when does a nano ever sit still for a cloaker to decloak next to it? You lose again. Nano's are a gettin nerfed as we speak so it's moot anyway. Lets move on. Originally by: marakor Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass 24 hours is the max re-enforced possible. Then they have to go in and recharge the shields and refuel it. Working as intended. People can't play 24/7. That applies to both sides so stalemate and stale mate = immunity. Stalemate is not immunity. It won't be stale mate for long anyway. Whoever shows up with the most ships as a POS come out of re-enforced, wins. You lose again. Originally by: marakor Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Have someone one each side of the gate. Der. Learn 2 gate camp. HMMMM..so now you need ppl on both sides of the gate to deal with one jumper???...i thought needing a gang for one ship was one of the reasons you disliked NANO. This is the way gate camps work. What did you just prove? That deagressing and jumping is broken? I already stated that. At least he's tanked and not goin anywhere if you have both sides camped. You kill him eventually. A nano would just MWD off and leave. Originally by: marakor "Solo ratters. Solo gankers. Scouts. PVPers. Carebears. ISK farmer. Cap pilots. ****s. Yer mom. Whoever" are all invulnerable from and to a cloaker while a cloaker is cloaked** A cloaker needs to uncloak to kill and be uncloaked to be killed and so balance is achieved already as his prey are as invulnerable to him while he is cloaked as he is to them while he is cloaked.... Can you make that any more convoluted? It doesn't matter if a cloaker has to decloak to kill anything. While he's cloaked he's immune to everything. IE broken. Nano's have to close in and slow down to engage. Utill then, they are immune as well. That's why they get the bat now.
Torothanax	Posted - 2008.08.27 12:34:00 - [29] Edited by: Torothanax on 27/08/2008 12:36:23
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2008.08.27 12:41:00 - [30] Originally by: marakor Edited by: marakor on 27/08/2008 12:22:08 Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass I've said in every one of my posts is that cloaks offer complete immunity to anyone who uses them WHILE THE CLOAK IS ACTIVATED.. But i conveniently ignore the fact that WHILE THE CLOAK IS ACTIVATED everybody is immune to the cloaker..... fixed. Yer soooooo very clever. You can take my posts and rewrite them as mumbo jumbo I never said. Learn to debate

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