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Anig Browl
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.08.27 18:54:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass
Cloaking will get nerfed. There is no counter for cloaking. Whether it's a raven ratting in 0.0, or one person trying to intimidate/disrupt/spy on a rival corp or alliance, they are immune to everything.
So what? You can't threaten (or even target) anyone until you decloak. Solo players (like myself) are still playing a multiplayer game, we're just not playing team style. I fail to see why you find this such a horrible thing. So you can get spied on. Too bad.
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Anig Browl
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.08.27 18:56:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass
Cloaked ships get to pick when, where, and who they fight, and at what range. If a cloaked ship never attacks, it can never be attacked. It's overpowered. There's no way around that.
If it never attacks, it's overpowered. Riiiight.
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.08.27 19:06:00 -
[93]
Hey, it's not our fault you didn't tank for a Rapier or a Huginn when you went outside in your lawless 0.0 free-for-all alliance space 
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Anig Browl
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.08.27 19:37:00 -
[94]
My last reply on this...
Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass
Originally by: marakor
Everybody in eve can pick when, where and who they fight and at what range unless they choose to fight ships that are incapable of fighting, like docked ships or cloakers that are both harmless until they uncloak or undock.
Right, so the hauler can just say "yer not allowed to shoot me" to anyone he pleases. And the ratter out in a pve set up raven is completely immune to that roaming gang of heavy assualt ships. You really should read what you type before you post it.
If I'm in anything but a lightweight covert ops ship and have a cloak fitted, I can't warp and my speed is cut way down. So say I fly a hauler into your system and see a gatecamp and activate my cloak...yes, I am unshootable, but it's going to take me 5 minutes or so to sneak past the gate camp and out of bubble range...and I still have to plan my station entrance/exit because I can't cloak within 2km of a station or any ships surrounding it. Meantime I can't target anything (even if I have a passive target module fitted) and am subject to long targeting delays so defensive systems like ECM are compromised (unless you are dumb enough to fly within range of ECM bursts or smart bombs.
It's not like you just fit a cloak and keep playing the same way but with the bonus of invisibility; there's a big time penalty. Assuming you have cloaking V and an improved cloaking device II, you're still looking at a 10 second targeting delay after you decloak and a permanent 40% hit to your scan resolution which really hurts against small targets. 10 seconds is a long time in combat; the only way to offset that is to switch to less powerful FOF missiles (with all their tactical disadvantages).
The covert ops cloaking device requires so much CPU that it's impractical for use one anything but covert ops ships, which are not a direct threat. True, a gang could warp to the cov ops ship and attack you, but if there is a bunch of unknowns in local you should be looking over your shoulder in any case.
Quote:
Being completely safe no matter where you are (aka immune, which your targets are not) is not balanced. Denial is very unbecoming.
Seeing as how I can't target anything when cloaked, your argument fails.
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Quesa
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.27 20:56:00 -
[95]
All I see in this thread are a bunch of people that A)Don't want anything to change because they can't adapt to any new situations, B)Want a change because they can't adapt to the current situation.
I guess the point is, LEARN TO ADAPT.
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.08.27 21:27:00 -
[96]
The nerf bat will come.
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Strill
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Posted - 2008.08.27 21:31:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Anig Browl
Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass
Cloaking will get nerfed. There is no counter for cloaking. Whether it's a raven ratting in 0.0, or one person trying to intimidate/disrupt/spy on a rival corp or alliance, they are immune to everything.
So what? You can't threaten (or even target) anyone until you decloak. Solo players (like myself) are still playing a multiplayer game, we're just not playing team style. I fail to see why you find this such a horrible thing. So you can get spied on. Too bad.
Since when do you need to target someone to threaten them? Goonfleet could send an eve mail to some 5 man corp telling them that if they don't pay 400 million isk, they'll get war decced. In that case, the 5 man corp has been threatened without anyone even getting in a ship. You don't need to target or shoot anyone or do anything in order to threaten someone. All you need to do is be capable of shooting them.
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Strill
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Posted - 2008.08.27 21:42:00 -
[98]
Ok how about this suggestion:
#1. You only become immune to probing once your cloak has been continuously activated for x minutes. (x could vary depending on the quality of cloak you're using)
#2. CCP adds a short-range (50km?) anti-cloaking sensor that reveals cloaked ships within its radius.
So in this way, a ship that's just sitting there cloaked still can't be detected, but a ship that's revealed itself can't just get away scot free.
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Dr Slaughter
Minmatar
Rabies Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.27 21:46:00 -
[99]
Meh do what you like to cloaking as long as you implement this too
~~~~
There is no parody in this thread. Honest. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.08.27 21:50:00 -
[100]
EVE has been going for quite a long time so most things being used now are adaptations ppl have developed to deal with the various aspects of eve.
Cloaking is just the way ppl have come to deal with being deep in hostile space where they are constantly outnumbered and out gunned. It gives them the opportunity to stay in the area and attack disorganized, unprepared and or unskilled(as in not 0.0 savvy) targets.
While some may think that a nerf is inevitable im sure ccp will not implement a nerf that allows the cloak to be probed rendering it useless and a pointless module, but they may introduce a timer that needs to be clicked after a certain amount of elapsed time so ppl cannot go constantly AFK.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Jimbob Jumbo
Macabre Votum
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.08.28 11:37:00 -
[101]
Seriously, i think we need this:
I.E:
A bomber undocks and warps to a gate, where the blob of piewats sit waiting for targets. The bomber arrives, and pushes his cloak butan', and a message pops up:
"X IS ENGAGING CLOAK. SIGNATURE RADIUS CHANGED TO: 9000000000000000000***KKM, AUTOTARGETING FOR ALL OTHER ENTETIES HAS BEEN ENABLED. REACTIVATION DELAY: 9 WEEKS, SPEED BONUS: -20000%"
Suddenly the bomber is safe as it travels backwards at 5au/s.
oknowgimmecake.
Jizuz...
I know the feeling dude, some ppl r just never satisfied unless its all for their gain.
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Mighty Ahti
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.08.29 00:07:00 -
[102]
Originally by: The Djego
Originally by: Mighty Ahti
Post of FAIL
Well you canŠt even handle the risk of posting with a Main on Internet Spaceship Games eh?
At the moment people go AFK in hostile space and are unscannable, unpredictable and unkillable(till they deactivate the cloak for a reason  ) EVE is ballanced.
Owait, it is not, it is broken.
Give people a way to scan down the afk cloakers, so they can not longer do it afk and everybody is happy. Any non AKF player can avoid to get caugt by probes on a SS I see not even one valid reason a afk player should be save if not docked, at a pos or simply logged out of the game. 
You make a bold accusation. I'm flattered you took the time to investigate my character so thoroughly that you decided I'm an alt.
Why do people think there's a problem with cloaks because people go AFK with them on? The thing that's needed is an AFK timer that removes a player if no ship movement has been done in 5 minutes or some other arbitrary number. Cloaks don't need a "fix", AFKing does.
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Acounting
Ex Divinitas
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.08.29 00:39:00 -
[103]
yep its really fair in 0.0 with all that risk of bening killed when you can just cloak all the problems away. there ships ment to cloak and the rest not so much. why shouldnt there be some way for everyone to face = risk all the time?
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TaatelinTallaaja
Advanced Tactics and Maneuvers
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Posted - 2008.08.29 13:03:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Acounting
yep its really fair in 0.0 with all that risk of bening killed when you can just cloak all the problems away. there ships ment to cloak and the rest not so much. why shouldnt there be some way for everyone to face = risk all the time?
OK so with this logic, people docked in outposts and inside POS sheres should be at risk too ... right...
Seriously! you are not making any sense.
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Glach Duwat
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Posted - 2008.08.29 13:18:00 -
[105]
Seriously. I don't understand the cloaking nerf.
Whats wrong with AFK? Seriously. What online game DOESN'T have AFK? There are shirts, and hats with AFK stitched on them. It is just a fact of MMO life. People want to stay logged in, even if they can't be at the computer right then.
First off. Cloaks are balanced. Non-Covert ships get nerfed hard. They go stupidly slow, they can't activate any modules, they can't warp, and when they do decloak, there is a stupidly long "sensor recalibration" delay in order to lock their opponent.
Covert ships don't have the speed penalty, and can warp, but they are paper thin. As I've pointed out, try taking on a ratting typhoon with a rapier. Good luck.
Not to mention the Recons have been repeatedly nerfed lately. The Arazu had RSD's nerfed. The Pilgrim got their Nos Nerfed, Rapier is getting speed/web nerfed. The Falcon is alright, but what damage can it do It needs a gang to really be effective against anything.
Cov-Ops frigates? Can they even break a Mining barge's shields un-tanked? Doubt it.
And you want to make it HARDER on these ships?
A Fuel bay? Thats great, so no, warping cloaked is going to mean I am wasting fuel, A Recon, that Can't cloak because it doesn't have fuel? This is stupd. Whoever suggested it is stupid.
An AFK Timer? What if I'm not AFK, and then have to take a sh!t in the middle of a roaming op? I Cloak, and then suddenly I de-cloak 15 minutes later because those beans took their toll, and I get probed and lose my 100+ million isk ship.
Seriously. AFKing is not a problem. Don't like someone locking down your favorite ratting system in 0.0?
Do something about it. Get a gang together to bait it out. Move over a couple systems. Fit a cloak to your ship. What ever.
Cloaks do not enhance the ships combat abilities. And once they are in a battle, they cannot disengage at will and just run away, the speed nerf makes sure of that.
Ships that really take advantage of cloaking do crap dps, and have crap tanks. Ones that don't get horribly hit with drawbacks as it is. Get over it. Cloaks are balanced.
If you want to make isk in peace move to high sec or GTFO my eve.
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Plunkett Macleane
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Posted - 2008.08.29 13:48:00 -
[106]
I just think if your cloaked you should not show up in the local chat. Unless you activate it. If I am sneaking through a hot system, and all of a sudden some stranger pops up on their local chat. I feel like it kinda gives me away.
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Asno Malo
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Posted - 2008.08.29 14:37:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Plunkett Macleane
I just think if your cloaked you should not show up in the local chat. Unless you activate it. If I am sneaking through a hot system, and all of a sudden some stranger pops up on their local chat. I feel like it kinda gives me away.
Yes!!!!
I recently spent a week in enemy territory, cloaked of course. I spoke in local only on the first day, and that was to help the enemies alliance pet break away from the enemy alliance. Anyway, the rest of the week, I was completely quiet in local, sitting 80KM from a gate or station for 60 - 90 minutes at a time gathering intel, or sitting in a belt watching rats spawn on the off chance an elite spawned. Sitting outside their production POS learning how many ships they were building a day.
After the first day, the only reason they even knew I was there was because of local. If anything should be nerfed, it should be local.
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Acidictadpole
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
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Posted - 2008.08.29 20:56:00 -
[108]
CCP have already said that local is going to be changed somehow. So I'm sure that an opt-out local will be more likely. And this makes everyone happy, since cloaking and non-cloaking will have exactly the same immunities! Balanced right?
Don't get scammed |
Nahkep Narmelion
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Posted - 2008.08.29 23:39:00 -
[109]
Quote:
I mission in high sec. I pvp in gangs, in low sec or 0.0. I solo rat (with a cloak) in 0.0. Mining sucks.
Bwahahaha...hypocrite.
And no a cloak is not the "I never loose button". I've ratted with a cloak, and have been killed. As people have pointed out, to do anything you have to uncloak...then you are vulnerable. Once someone starts targeting you, your cloak is now equivalent to an emply high slot.
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Acounting
Ex Divinitas
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.08.30 01:21:00 -
[110]
Originally by: TaatelinTallaaja
Originally by: Acounting
yep its really fair in 0.0 with all that risk of bening killed when you can just cloak all the problems away. there ships ment to cloak and the rest not so much. why shouldnt there be some way for everyone to face = risk all the time?
OK so with this logic, people docked in outposts and inside POS sheres should be at risk too ... right...
Seriously! you are not making any sense.
people in POS arnt that safe maybe you never seen a titan warp in to your pos a DD you in the shield.
at least with people in POS and docked there mostly safe. well cloaked. your always safe, roaming gangs cant get you. or you grief a system for hour maybe 1/2 the time afk. you should be able to sit in somone else ome system all day and have no way to be found.
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
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Posted - 2008.08.30 01:33:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Mighty Ahti
Originally by: The Djego
Originally by: Mighty Ahti
Post of FAIL
Well you canŠt even handle the risk of posting with a Main on Internet Spaceship Games eh?
At the moment people go AFK in hostile space and are unscannable, unpredictable and unkillable(till they deactivate the cloak for a reason ) EVE is ballanced.
Owait, it is not, it is broken.
Give people a way to scan down the afk cloakers, so they can not longer do it afk and everybody is happy. Any non AKF player can avoid to get caugt by probes on a SS I see not even one valid reason a afk player should be save if not docked, at a pos or simply logged out of the game.
You make a bold accusation. I'm flattered you took the time to investigate my character so thoroughly that you decided I'm an alt.
Why do people think there's a problem with cloaks because people go AFK with them on? The thing that's needed is an AFK timer that removes a player if no ship movement has been done in 5 minutes or some other arbitrary number. Cloaks don't need a "fix", AFKing does.
Well the post, written like this only coveres some parts of cloaking, and also has the preaty common, im right you are ALL wrong style, that is sadly very common at this kind of Forums today, leading in a simlar replay style. Seeing no Corp displayed allways sugests me that this is a alt(ofc I did a little check via Standings and KMs to not base my sugestion at nothing) often is only used for trolling, and hiding the orginal direction where this post come from and what kind of view the poster has to back up his post. I canŠt remember any constructive or usefull Thread here on the Forums that is started by a alt(at least a Forum Alt).
So what is your reason to post this with a alt in the end?
If you would actualy take the time to read thrue your own Thread you would find multiply statments about your fist question. Also my statments that only the ability to be perfectly save while beeing afk is a problem in the end.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.08.30 01:55:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Nahkep Narmelion
Quote:
I mission in high sec. I pvp in gangs, in low sec or 0.0. I solo rat (with a cloak) in 0.0. Mining sucks.
Bwahahaha...hypocrite.
And no a cloak is not the "I never loose button". I've ratted with a cloak, and have been killed. As people have pointed out, to do anything you have to uncloak...then you are vulnerable. Once someone starts targeting you, your cloak is now equivalent to an emply high slot.
Ya just noticed that? Der I use a cloak, why wouldn't I? I also fly a nano Vaga. Why would I not make full use of overpower mechanics?
If you've lost a ratting ship with a cloak, you fail at eve. Watch local. SS and cloak is complete immunity. Hell just cloaking is complete immunity most of the time. Use a scout alt in a shuttle, when changing systems, and you never EVER die.
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Mighty Ahti
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.08.30 02:25:00 -
[113]
Originally by: The Djego
Well the post, written like this only coveres some parts of cloaking, and also has the preaty common, im right you are ALL wrong style, that is sadly very common at this kind of Forums today, leading in a simlar replay style. Seeing no Corp displayed allways sugests me that this is a alt(ofc I did a little check via Standings and KMs to not base my sugestion at nothing) often is only used for trolling, and hiding the orginal direction where this post come from and what kind of view the poster has to back up his post. I canŠt remember any constructive or usefull Thread here on the Forums that is started by a alt(at least a Forum Alt).
So what is your reason to post this with a alt in the end?
If you would actualy take the time to read thrue your own Thread you would find multiply statments about your fist question. Also my statments that only the ability to be perfectly save while beeing afk is a problem in the end.
I can't cover everything in cloaking. But I had assumed that people had read the other cloaking threads. I never meant (entirely) for this to turn into what I was ranting about. I was more upset about the daily whine threads about nerfing than actually wanting to prove a point. And I said that. But you're right, I am an alt.
I honestly don't think there's a problem with Alt-posting. I'm sorry you do. Some of us prefer to keep our main's off the forums for specific reasons and I don't think I'm required to share those reasons with you. I do believe however that one should not stand aligned to certain entities with an alt, bashing them or otherwise, but since I do not do that I don't see the problem.
This forum should be the least of your worries for alt posting. If the alt makes good points I don't really think it should matter who his main is. Besides, what makes you so sure you'd think my main was any less of an alt than this character?
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Immersive
Immersive Technology Solutions
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Posted - 2008.08.30 04:35:00 -
[114]
Get rid of Local, or make it opt-in.
Then we wouldn't have the problems with the AFK cloakers locking down systems.
A cloak doesn't make a ship superior, but it does give it a tactical advantage.
Cloaking is a counter to probes, but utterly and completely nerfs the ship while it's active.
Warping cloaked is a special rule available only to 8 ships in total.
Recalibration delay applies to all but 8 ships, and those 8 can't warp cloaked.
If you still want a counter for the cloaks, then find me a counter for smart bombs vs missiles, or webs vs MWD.
IIRC, Eve doesn't have counter-counter systems
(ECM is a primary, not a counter, therefore ECCM is a counter, not a counter-counter)
IMO, cloaking is fine, it's the omniscient Local that needs to go.
---
New to the API? GrabRaw XML
It's coming...
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.08.30 12:35:00 -
[115]
Originally by: The Djego
3. A broken game mechanic if it leads to compleet savety in hostile space while you beeing afk.
Damn and there was I thinking it was ok to dock at a station in low-sec... Clearly all stations should be removed everywhere because I can dock at one and walk away and still appear in local...
Seriously, this is a pointless debate. People will continue to whine because one group is affecting another group's playstyle. No matter what CCP do, some will view that if at any point they are disadvantaged and can't win, then the game is broken and should support them.
I hesitate to use the tired meme 'Learn to play' but perhaps those advocating changes to cloaks should first try and use them and see what is involved before claiming they're so bloody perfect.
___
My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
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Posted - 2008.08.30 13:59:00 -
[116]
Edited by: The Djego on 30/08/2008 13:59:47
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
Originally by: The Djego
3. A broken game mechanic if it leads to compleet savety in hostile space while you beeing afk.
Damn and there was I thinking it was ok to dock at a station in low-sec... Clearly all stations should be removed everywhere because I can dock at one and walk away and still appear in local...
Seriously, this is a pointless debate. People will continue to whine because one group is affecting another group's playstyle. No matter what CCP do, some will view that if at any point they are disadvantaged and can't win, then the game is broken and should support them..
All this points was allready in the this Thread but ok one more time for the tl;dr crowd, afk Docking -> people know you are docked, if people pay attention they know when you undock, you canŠt undock afk, you need a system with a station for this, if you undock people have a good chance to get you or force you back to redocking if they want and pay atention -> there is no problem, if you want to counter it you perfectly can do it. Also in 90% of all cases people that are docked in low Sec are indeet afk and I spend lots of time there to know this.
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
I hesitate to use the tired meme 'Learn to play' but perhaps those advocating changes to cloaks should first try and use them and see what is involved before claiming they're so bloody perfect.
Re read the thread, look at the points given! The problem is cloak + afkabiltiy without a connter to catch people, because they can stay there save and forcing permanent attention without any afford. If people have to be on the controls for this, people wonŠt do it because it is booring now, not only for the defender but also for the attacker.
Also I use cloaks to, but not for afk cloaking games. Again try to read Threads before you hit the replay button.
@the OP i only given my reasons because I totaly dislike alt posts in about any kind of gamebalance, this is not a point of discussion but my point of view and my experience here on the forums...
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.08.30 14:13:00 -
[117]
Originally by: The Djego
Re read the thread, look at the points given! The problem is cloak + afkabiltiy without a connter to catch people, because they can stay there save and forcing permanent attention without any afford. If people have to be on the controls for this, people wonŠt do it because it is booring now, not only for the defender but also for the attacker.
Also I use cloaks to, but not for afk cloaking games. Again try to read Threads before you hit the replay button.
On the contrary I have read the thread. I suppose my sarcasm was a little harsh, but overall I think the problem isn't cloaks or AFK at all, it's over-reliance on local rather than actual defense, and an obsession over being able to kill any target you see in local.
Put simply, if you're not paying attention enough whilst out ratting or whatever regardless of whether there's a cloaker there or not, then you're not paying enough attention full stop. I don't see how we can have this both ways. We can't people claiming low-sec and null-sec are dangerous places where you should have your wits about you, and then go into a tiz about how one AFK cloaker has meant you might have to worry about an enemy in system.
___
My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties...
Environmental Effects
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marakor
Gallente
Anti Lag Forum Smackers
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Posted - 2008.08.30 16:01:00 -
[118]
Originally by: The Djego
AFK cloaking-> PPL know your in system cloaked by looking at scans of the system-> if ppl pay attention (to scans) they know when you uncloak->you cannot uncloak afk-> if you uncloak people have a good chance to get you or force you back to recloaking if they want and pay attention.....ect ect.
Fixed.
See what i did there?.
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
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Posted - 2008.08.30 16:25:00 -
[119]
Originally by: marakor
Originally by: The Djego
AFK cloaking-> PPL know your in system cloaked by looking at scans of the system-> if ppl pay attention (to scans) they know when you uncloak->you cannot uncloak afk-> if you uncloak people have a good chance to get you or force you back to recloaking if they want and pay attention.....ect ect.
Fixed.
See what i did there?.
Yes you try to restart trolling...
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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marakor
Gallente
Anti Lag Forum Smackers
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Posted - 2008.08.30 16:34:00 -
[120]
Originally by: The Djego
Originally by: marakor
Originally by: The Djego
AFK cloaking-> PPL know your in system cloaked by looking at scans of the system-> if ppl pay attention (to scans) they know when you uncloak->you cannot uncloak afk-> if you uncloak people have a good chance to get you or force you back to recloaking if they want and pay attention.....ect ect.
Fixed.
See what i did there?.
Yes you pointed out why cloaking is fine and carebears are lazy self involved whiners...
Fixed again.
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