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Vaden Khale
Amarr the united
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Posted - 2008.08.27 06:49:00 -
[1]
Link
Seriously CCP, why? Is it because of the fools taking CNRs to missions during wartime? It's not exploiting, it's Darwin's cruelest play.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm ****ed. And I don't even use the war dec mechanic.
Hold my beer while I nail your sister. |
Haitchi Allamut
The Movement
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Posted - 2008.08.27 07:00:00 -
[2]
You signature is huge!
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood
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Posted - 2008.08.27 07:23:00 -
[3]
I saw this, too...
When they say they won't (not can't, but WON'T) do anything about people corphopping to avoid wars, but then they declare this to be an exploit, it doesn't really add up.
Personally, I think it's a lame 'tactic', but that's not the point. An even lamer 'tactic' is creating a bunch of alt corps and flying without roles so you can just hop-hop-hop-hop-hop your way out of ever dying without being suicide ganked at all... especially since they're nerfing suicide ganks now, too.
If they keep moving this game in the direction they are (towards being WoW in space), I might just GB2 WoW (not really, I'll probably make a mission alt to sit in highsec and fund my main's griefing activities like everyone else is already doing) - at least then I'd have less lag in large group activities.
Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
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AkiXeta Petain
Ever Flow HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.08.27 07:36:00 -
[4]
Agreed, Vaden. This is absurd. I don't use this tactic, either, but removing valid sandbox playstyles to protect the CNR's in highsec is just crap. Don't you have to be docked to accept an offer to join a corp? It's not like you can be sitting in space, cloaked, next to a target and hit "accept" and insta-pop the guy. He still sees new reds enter local and has an opportunity to dock...
(warning, potentially lame RL comparison incoming)It's like if the US is at war with Mexico, and then suddenly Canada decides to invade, too. HAXSPLOITS!
Seriously, why is this classed as an exploit?
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imouttahere
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.08.27 09:38:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Vaden Khale Link
Seriously CCP, why? Is it because of the fools taking CNRs to missions during wartime? It's not exploiting, it's Darwin's cruelest play.
It is exploiting. CCP just said so.
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Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2008.08.27 09:45:00 -
[6]
Are the people complaning about this actually serious?
---- Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa*coughcough*aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrr!! |
Doonoo Boonoo
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:06:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Doonoo Boonoo on 27/08/2008 10:06:35
Originally by: AkiXeta Petain Agreed, Vaden. This is absurd. It's not like you can be sitting in space, cloaked, next to a target and hit "accept" and insta-pop the guy. He still sees new reds enter local and has an opportunity to dock... Seriously, why is this classed as an exploit?
Corp A is at war with Corp B. A player belonging to corp A is in a hisec system with zero war targets in local and 40 neutrals. As player A undocks 5 of the neutrals have their applications accepted to Corp B and undock and kill player A. Player A does not see 5 targets enter local. They appear instantly right beside him.
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Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:11:00 -
[8]
Gankers complaining that they can no longer insta-join a warring corp to kill people, and then insta-leave that corp to avoid reprisal? Come on. Now recruiting! Click FFS! :X |
Tam A
Amarr Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:17:00 -
[9]
Hmm I wasn't even aware this was going on in eve. I suppose this tactic replaced the lofty scam when they changed gang mechanics?
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Golden Helmet
Caldari The Python Cartel
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:30:00 -
[10]
If it hurts a carebear, its obviously haxsploitzors. Good ol' CCP. *sigh*
The Python Cartel is recruiting low sec pirates! |
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techzer0
Minmatar Mafia
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:56:00 -
[11]
I just saw it and was going to start a thread saying the same thing... wtf CCP. It's not a damn exploit to corp hop to avoid dec's, why should it be one to join a corp to suprise a WT?
Here's betting that a Dev/GM alt lost a 10bil+ CNR to someone and went all emorage ------------ CCP > Let's play the nerf a race game! Next up minmatar! |
Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood
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Posted - 2008.08.27 11:00:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum Gankers complaining that they can no longer insta-join a warring corp to kill people, and then insta-leave that corp to avoid reprisal? Come on.
I dig whatcher sayin'. Corp-hopping to get around the wardec system is bad, imo, regardless of why. You should have to be honorable and fight like warrior at ALL TIMES (in game).
Originally by: Havohej Personally, I think it's a lame 'tactic', but that's not the point.
To me, the point is...
Originally by: Havohej When they say they won't (not can't, but WON'T) do anything about people corphopping to avoid wars, but then they declare this to be an exploit, it doesn't really add up.
So I can avoid getting ganked by my war targets, because CCP won't tell a player they can't join or leave any corp they want to, but if I kill somebody (read: if I PvP) then that rule doesn't apply to me and I'm an exploiter?
That's as lame as the exploit itself.
It's not so much about the exploit to me, as it is about the trend of catering to the carebears that's been going on for the last few months... It's not the EVE I signed up for. The EVE I signed up for is the EVE where GH-SC scammed, ganked and corpthefted someone out of 17k USD worth of ISK and assorded items. With the changes they've been making and are continuing to make, I keep expecting to see "Scamming is banned from now on" on the news panel next time I log in.
How long until EVE changes so much that I have to take the quote out of my sig?
Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
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techzer0
Minmatar Mafia
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Posted - 2008.08.27 11:04:00 -
[13]
I seriously love Havohej today... he explained it perfectly ------------ CCP > Let's play the nerf a race game! Next up minmatar! |
Izo Alabaster
Repo Industries R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2008.08.27 11:08:00 -
[14]
Next up, I bet they deem it an exploit to scan wartargets down with an alt and then attack with your main.
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Lynal
Gallente A Few Good Men.
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Posted - 2008.08.27 11:15:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Havohej I saw this, too...
When they say they won't (not can't, but WON'T) do anything about people corphopping to avoid wars, but then they declare this to be an exploit, it doesn't really add up.
Personally, I think it's a lame 'tactic', but that's not the point. An even lamer 'tactic' is creating a bunch of alt corps and flying without roles so you can just hop-hop-hop-hop-hop your way out of ever dying without being suicide ganked at all... especially since they're nerfing suicide ganks now, too.
If they keep moving this game in the direction they are (towards being WoW in space), I might just GB2 WoW (not really, I'll probably make a mission alt to sit in highsec and fund my main's griefing activities like everyone else is already doing) - at least then I'd have less lag in large group activities.
just curious here... but have any of you people who claim that eve is becoming wow in space actually played wow? or are you just spewing bs because your ticked?
ill tell you what... when ccp announces that when your ship gets blown up you will no longer risk losing skill points, and your ship will be available, undamaged and whole with all its fittings, in the nearest station... and that you will be unable to attack ANYONE outside of certain "pvp zones"... and that the only people you will be able to attack under ANY circumstances must be aligned a certain way in opposition to you, and... etc etc.
no matter how "carebear" you think eve is, or is becoming... it is patently impossible for it to ever even remotely resemble wow, in any way, shape or form.
Originally by: Daeva Vios It's fair when the larger force is on my side.
It's lame when the larger force is on their side.
How have people not figured this out yet?
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techzer0
Minmatar Mafia
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Posted - 2008.08.27 11:20:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Lynal just curious here... but have any of you people who claim that eve is becoming wow in space actually played wow? or are you just spewing bs because your ticked?
ill tell you what... when ccp announces that when your ship gets blown up you will no longer risk losing skill points, and your ship will be available, undamaged and whole with all its fittings, in the nearest station... and that you will be unable to attack ANYONE outside of certain "pvp zones"... and that the only people you will be able to attack under ANY circumstances must be aligned a certain way in opposition to you, and... etc etc.
no matter how "carebear" you think eve is, or is becoming... it is patently impossible for it to ever even remotely resemble wow, in any way, shape or form.
The closer we get to having "PVP-regions" or "PVP-systems" is a step towards wow... The risk of not getting your ship back will always be there (unless you can claim lag and get away with it). But the annoying thing is how it is getting to the point of not being able to shoot at people where/when you want. There are always ways of doing it, but it's still getting ridiculous. ------------
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
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Zedrik Cayne
Gallente Session9 Malum Exuro
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Posted - 2008.08.27 11:22:00 -
[17]
What bit CCP is the whole new 'I can join and leave corps while in space' schtick they introduced because suddenly you had pilots that (once they got into that titan) could never really dock up again. How were they supposed to switch corps?
The un-intended side effect of course was folks realizing that one could hop into corp while sitting in a belt with a WT. BBQ them, then immediately drop corp. You used to be able to do this, but you had to be in station with an office if memory serves to switch corps. So it was a bit less effective.
They'll probably 'fix' it by putting the station restriction back. Unless you're flying an un-dockable ship. Or do something silly like 'no warping or moving' for 15 minutes after switching corps because your computer is busy sending your DNA info through a secure line to notify CONCORD, Pend Insurance, The Sisters, your next of kin, your old corp and your new corp of the change.
--
Remember: Carebears aren't people. They are giant flying piħatas.
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Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2008.08.27 11:32:00 -
[18]
Very easy fix...
Have a 15 minute timer after you join a corp before you're allowed to join in any wars, and another 15 minute timer before you're no longer considered a wartarget after you leave a corp.
The actual joining/leaving of the corp should be instant however.
Anyone who has agressed a departing character within that 15 minutes should be given an obvious warning to indicate that their target is soon to no longer be a target, or alternatively any aggression continuing during that 15 minutes should extend the timer appropriately until 15 minutes after the battle has ceased.
Job done. ---- Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa*coughcough*aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrr!! |
Thule Cult
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Posted - 2008.08.27 11:36:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Vaden Khale Link
Seriously CCP, why? Is it because of the fools taking CNRs to missions during wartime? It's not exploiting, it's Darwin's cruelest play.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm ****ed. And I don't even use the war dec mechanic.
your tears tastes so sweet, jummy. |
Lynal
Gallente A Few Good Men.
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Posted - 2008.08.27 11:46:00 -
[20]
Originally by: techzer0
Originally by: Lynal just curious here... but have any of you people who claim that eve is becoming wow in space actually played wow? or are you just spewing bs because your ticked?
ill tell you what... when ccp announces that when your ship gets blown up you will no longer risk losing skill points, and your ship will be available, undamaged and whole with all its fittings, in the nearest station... and that you will be unable to attack ANYONE outside of certain "pvp zones"... and that the only people you will be able to attack under ANY circumstances must be aligned a certain way in opposition to you, and... etc etc.
no matter how "carebear" you think eve is, or is becoming... it is patently impossible for it to ever even remotely resemble wow, in any way, shape or form.
The closer we get to having "PVP-regions" or "PVP-systems" is a step towards wow... The risk of not getting your ship back will always be there (unless you can claim lag and get away with it). But the annoying thing is how it is getting to the point of not being able to shoot at people where/when you want. There are always ways of doing it, but it's still getting ridiculous.
ok... fair enough. but its still such a minor step in that direction, that its almost irrelevant.
point is... over-exaggerating is over-exaggerating. its one thing to make a valid claim about eve becoming more carebearish (it may be, but not in unavoidable ways like you said... and tbh, i agree with ccp on that point... it should be harder to do "illegal" things in areas that are supposedly being patrolled by law enforcement agencies such as concord, than it is in low sec and null sec)... its quite another to over blow things to try and make a point.
Originally by: Daeva Vios It's fair when the larger force is on my side.
It's lame when the larger force is on their side.
How have people not figured this out yet?
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mahj
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.27 12:00:00 -
[21]
its not intended game play, live with it or gtfo. and if you need someone to greif go kick the dog/cat or wife if your a real p.o.s.
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Ardrilian
Gallente Glowing Goat
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Posted - 2008.08.27 12:04:00 -
[22]
Has any of you who are defending this tactic ever thought about what it really does? It's been said that a corp under a war-dec should never bring their fancy/expensive ships into play as long as the dec is up. Fair enough.
However there are a few points that seem massively imbalanced in the sheme that is now an exploit:
1) You're locking out a carebear corp from all their activities with minimal ISK investment (they can't bring their expensive ships).
2) You don't provide any means for them to defend since there is only an inactive alt in the decing corp that can at no point be fought against (even if the carebears would want to do it). The only choice is to either ignore the dec (rather suicidal) or leave the corp eventually.
3) You're circumventing any possible means of intel/defense as there is no way of telling whether a character who is currently in a npc corp is actually in mid-warp to your position and will have joined the waring corp by the time he leaves warp.
This, while very creative (however I seem to recall that the Taxman was using exactly this tactic quite some time ago already), should make it quite obvious why it isn't very balanced.
Corp-hopping in order to avoid decs is just as imbalanced and on those grounds I fully understand why people are upset about the recent announcement of CCP. Yet it would be nice if some people would spend at least some time thinking about the whole thing before shouting fire.
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Gavin Darklighter
THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2008.08.27 12:05:00 -
[23]
EVE is not WOW in space. You just need to move to lowsec and quit being a WOW player in EVE.
signature picture exceeds the size limit.~WeatherMan |
Nexus Kinnon
A Few Good Men.
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Posted - 2008.08.27 12:19:00 -
[24]
I guess this rule also depends on the interpretation of the GM at the time, since the exploit is "insta" joining a corp, then surely if you join a corp, wait 24 hours, and then attack; it's not an exploit, right?
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Vaden Khale
Amarr the united
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Posted - 2008.08.27 13:01:00 -
[25]
Who knows, maybe as long as you're not sitting in the same belt as the WT, as long as you're docked up or in an adjacent system, then fine. How's this for a solution to both the corp hopping and this mechanic.
When you leave a corp that's at war, you yourself also have 24 hour cooldown.
Corp A war decs mining Corp B. Player A in corp A is ****ed off at Player B in corp B for something said in local, whatever. Player B doesn't want to risk anything in the war, so he leaves the corp. Game mechanic. But if Player C ups and joins Corp B out of the blue and immediately shoots a WT, it's an exploit? Why not just have Player B have a 24 hour cooldown on aggression so he can still be shot? He's left the corp, but it will effectively remove the whole join/pop WT/leave mechanic that they're dubbing an exploit. It will also make the GM discretion issue of this 'exploit' a lot less variable.
Hold my beer while I nail your sister. |
Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.08.27 13:06:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Marchocias Very easy fix...
Have a 15 minute timer after you join a corp before you're allowed to join in any wars, and another 15 minute timer before you're no longer considered a wartarget after you leave a corp.
The actual joining/leaving of the corp should be instant however.
Anyone who has agressed a departing character within that 15 minutes should be given an obvious warning to indicate that their target is soon to no longer be a target, or alternatively any aggression continuing during that 15 minutes should extend the timer appropriately until 15 minutes after the battle has ceased.
Job done.
This.
Diary of a pod pilot |
Raniss
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Posted - 2008.08.27 13:07:00 -
[27]
You piwate tears taste so sweet...keep on crying plz.
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Nexus Kinnon
A Few Good Men.
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Posted - 2008.08.27 13:21:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Raniss You piwate tears taste so sweet...keep on crying plz.
No one here is crying. We are suggesting solutions and ways of working around the problem.
Maybe you should try it before taking to the whinemobile, asking CCP to change things for you because you were dropped on your head as a child and thus lack critical thinking skills.
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood
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Posted - 2008.08.27 13:56:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Lynal
Originally by: Havohej If they keep moving this game in the direction they are (towards being WoW in space), I might just GB2 WoW (not really, I'll probably make a mission alt to sit in highsec and fund my main's griefing activities like everyone else is already doing) - at least then I'd have less lag in large group activities.
just curious here... but have any of you people who claim that eve is becoming wow in space actually played wow? or are you just spewing bs because your ticked?
Seriously? With my corporation's name... have I actually played wow?
Yes. Yes, I have.
While I agree that it's unlikely they will change the game so that you get all your stuff back if it gets blown up, and you just need to dock and repair it, all the other stuff isn't very far from what they're doing now - you can't see that?
When I joined the game last October, you could be killed anywhere, any time, by anyone with nothing more than the guarantee that your killer's ships would be destroyed if they killed you in 0.5-1.0 space without benefit of wardec or can aggro.
1. Then, the P-nerf, where they changed the wardecs so that PRVTR couldn't do what they'd been doing.
Carebears 1, PvP 0
2. The iMune = Exploit declaration said carebears couldn't alliance hop their corps to wash off a wardec.
Carebears 1, PvP 1
3. Since they can't alliance hop their corps, they start making alt corps and corp hopping their characters, leaving alts in place to hold the corporations open, exploiting the fact that a corp can only have 3 wardecs active - the 4th alt corp makes you imune to wardec from the aggressing corporation unless they also form alt corps and corp hop. Thing is, starting a corp is a 1-time fee. Wardecs are a weekly fee, and cost more to boot. Even worse are the ones who just drop into the NPC corp, which can't be wardec'd at all so that even an enemy persistent and willing to pay the ISK to get at their target is left with no option other than suicide ganking - but CCP won't tell a player what corp they can or can't join or when they can or can't join it (see 7, below).
Carebears 2, PvP 1
4. No answer, despite Mitnal's promise in the CAOD thread, as to whether IVY's use of several alt corps to drive the price of wardecing themselves up into the billions - silence = consent, obviously, seeing as if they don't say it's an exploit then it isn't an exploit.
Carebears 3, PvP 1
5. They've stated that they're going to nerf suicide ganking, saying that you'll still be able to do it but your sec status will get much worse much faster, basically removing it as a viable profession, which is so contrary to the 'nature of EVE' as it used to be that if you don't see it as a negative, you're one of the carebears they're catering to - and by your corp name, I can't imagine that's the case. Anyway, there's your step towards having it so that "you will be unable to attack ANYONE outside of certain "pvp zones"" - note that in the dev blog, CCP Fear says: "This should move most ganking to the lower security areas where it belongs."
Carebears 4, PvP 1
6. "and that the only people you will be able to attack under ANY circumstances must be aligned a certain way in opposition to you"? FW. Also, in the dev blog CCP Fear also says "and of course those at war or in 0.0 won't be affected." when mentioning the sec hit from pod killing. You can still shoot at people so far, but they're really pushing the faction warfare and war thing pretty hard here lately. The 0.0 part also speaks to the "pvp zones" idea, addressed in number 5.
Carebears 5, PvP 1
7. Now this here, declaring it an exploit to corp hop for kills - yes, it's lame. Yes, it's an exploit. But see 2, above. It's not an exploit to do the same exact thing when you don't want to kill someone - only when you do want to kill someone.
Carebears 6, PvP 1.
Trying to think of another PvP win, but...
Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
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Raniss
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Posted - 2008.08.27 14:11:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon
Originally by: Raniss You piwate tears taste so sweet...keep on crying plz.
No one here is crying. We are suggesting solutions and ways of working around the problem.
Maybe you should try it before taking to the whinemobile, asking CCP to change things for you because you were dropped on your head as a child and thus lack critical thinking skills.
Keep on trying...keep on crying. They still taste sweet.
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