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Vaden Khale Amarr the united	Posted - 2008.08.27 06:49:00 - [1] Link Seriously CCP, why? Is it because of the fools taking CNRs to missions during wartime? It's not exploiting, it's Darwin's cruelest play. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm ****ed. And I don't even use the war dec mechanic. Hold my beer while I nail your sister.
Haitchi Allamut The Movement	Posted - 2008.08.27 07:00:00 - [2] You signature is huge!
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood	Posted - 2008.08.27 07:23:00 - [3] I saw this, too... When they say they won't (not can't, but WON'T) do anything about people corphopping to avoid wars, but then they declare this to be an exploit, it doesn't really add up. Personally, I think it's a lame 'tactic', but that's not the point. An even lamer 'tactic' is creating a bunch of alt corps and flying without roles so you can just hop-hop-hop-hop-hop your way out of ever dying without being suicide ganked at all... especially since they're nerfing suicide ganks now, too. If they keep moving this game in the direction they are (towards being WoW in space), I might just GB2 WoW (not really, I'll probably make a mission alt to sit in highsec and fund my main's griefing activities like everyone else is already doing) - at least then I'd have less lag in large group activities. Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
AkiXeta Petain Ever Flow HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.08.27 07:36:00 - [4] Agreed, Vaden. This is absurd. I don't use this tactic, either, but removing valid sandbox playstyles to protect the CNR's in highsec is just crap. Don't you have to be docked to accept an offer to join a corp? It's not like you can be sitting in space, cloaked, next to a target and hit "accept" and insta-pop the guy. He still sees new reds enter local and has an opportunity to dock... (warning, potentially lame RL comparison incoming)It's like if the US is at war with Mexico, and then suddenly Canada decides to invade, too. HAXSPLOITS! Seriously, why is this classed as an exploit?
imouttahere Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.08.27 09:38:00 - [5] Originally by: Vaden Khale Link Seriously CCP, why? Is it because of the fools taking CNRs to missions during wartime? It's not exploiting, it's Darwin's cruelest play. It is exploiting. CCP just said so.
Marchocias Silent Ninja's	Posted - 2008.08.27 09:45:00 - [6] Are the people complaning about this actually serious? ---- Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacoughcoughaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrr!!
Doonoo Boonoo Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.27 10:06:00 - [7] Edited by: Doonoo Boonoo on 27/08/2008 10:06:35 Originally by: AkiXeta Petain Agreed, Vaden. This is absurd. It's not like you can be sitting in space, cloaked, next to a target and hit "accept" and insta-pop the guy. He still sees new reds enter local and has an opportunity to dock... Seriously, why is this classed as an exploit? Corp A is at war with Corp B. A player belonging to corp A is in a hisec system with zero war targets in local and 40 neutrals. As player A undocks 5 of the neutrals have their applications accepted to Corp B and undock and kill player A. Player A does not see 5 targets enter local. They appear instantly right beside him.
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.08.27 10:11:00 - [8] Gankers complaining that they can no longer insta-join a warring corp to kill people, and then insta-leave that corp to avoid reprisal? Come on. Now recruiting! Click FFS! :X
Tam A Amarr Interstellar Corporation of Exploration	Posted - 2008.08.27 10:17:00 - [9] Hmm I wasn't even aware this was going on in eve. I suppose this tactic replaced the lofty scam when they changed gang mechanics?
Golden Helmet Caldari The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.08.27 10:30:00 - [10] If it hurts a carebear, its obviously haxsploitzors. Good ol' CCP. sigh The Python Cartel is recruiting low sec pirates!
techzer0 Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.08.27 10:56:00 - [11] I just saw it and was going to start a thread saying the same thing... wtf CCP. It's not a damn exploit to corp hop to avoid dec's, why should it be one to join a corp to suprise a WT? Here's betting that a Dev/GM alt lost a 10bil+ CNR to someone and went all emorage ------------ CCP > Let's play the nerf a race game! Next up minmatar!
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:00:00 - [12] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Gankers complaining that they can no longer insta-join a warring corp to kill people, and then insta-leave that corp to avoid reprisal? Come on. I dig whatcher sayin'. Corp-hopping to get around the wardec system is bad, imo, regardless of why. You should have to be honorable and fight like warrior at ALL TIMES (in game). Originally by: Havohej Personally, I think it's a lame 'tactic', but that's not the point. To me, the point is... Originally by: Havohej When they say they won't (not can't, but WON'T) do anything about people corphopping to avoid wars, but then they declare this to be an exploit, it doesn't really add up. So I can avoid getting ganked by my war targets, because CCP won't tell a player they can't join or leave any corp they want to, but if I kill somebody (read: if I PvP) then that rule doesn't apply to me and I'm an exploiter? That's as lame as the exploit itself. It's not so much about the exploit to me, as it is about the trend of catering to the carebears that's been going on for the last few months... It's not the EVE I signed up for. The EVE I signed up for is the EVE where GH-SC scammed, ganked and corpthefted someone out of 17k USD worth of ISK and assorded items. With the changes they've been making and are continuing to make, I keep expecting to see "Scamming is banned from now on" on the news panel next time I log in. How long until EVE changes so much that I have to take the quote out of my sig? Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
techzer0 Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:04:00 - [13] I seriously love Havohej today... he explained it perfectly ------------ CCP > Let's play the nerf a race game! Next up minmatar!
Izo Alabaster Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:08:00 - [14] Next up, I bet they deem it an exploit to scan wartargets down with an alt and then attack with your main.
Lynal Gallente A Few Good Men.	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:15:00 - [15] Originally by: Havohej I saw this, too... When they say they won't (not can't, but WON'T) do anything about people corphopping to avoid wars, but then they declare this to be an exploit, it doesn't really add up. Personally, I think it's a lame 'tactic', but that's not the point. An even lamer 'tactic' is creating a bunch of alt corps and flying without roles so you can just hop-hop-hop-hop-hop your way out of ever dying without being suicide ganked at all... especially since they're nerfing suicide ganks now, too. If they keep moving this game in the direction they are (towards being WoW in space), I might just GB2 WoW (not really, I'll probably make a mission alt to sit in highsec and fund my main's griefing activities like everyone else is already doing) - at least then I'd have less lag in large group activities. just curious here... but have any of you people who claim that eve is becoming wow in space actually played wow? or are you just spewing bs because your ticked? ill tell you what... when ccp announces that when your ship gets blown up you will no longer risk losing skill points, and your ship will be available, undamaged and whole with all its fittings, in the nearest station... and that you will be unable to attack ANYONE outside of certain "pvp zones"... and that the only people you will be able to attack under ANY circumstances must be aligned a certain way in opposition to you, and... etc etc. no matter how "carebear" you think eve is, or is becoming... it is patently impossible for it to ever even remotely resemble wow, in any way, shape or form. Originally by: Daeva Vios It's fair when the larger force is on my side. It's lame when the larger force is on their side. How have people not figured this out yet?
techzer0 Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:20:00 - [16] Originally by: Lynal just curious here... but have any of you people who claim that eve is becoming wow in space actually played wow? or are you just spewing bs because your ticked? ill tell you what... when ccp announces that when your ship gets blown up you will no longer risk losing skill points, and your ship will be available, undamaged and whole with all its fittings, in the nearest station... and that you will be unable to attack ANYONE outside of certain "pvp zones"... and that the only people you will be able to attack under ANY circumstances must be aligned a certain way in opposition to you, and... etc etc. no matter how "carebear" you think eve is, or is becoming... it is patently impossible for it to ever even remotely resemble wow, in any way, shape or form. The closer we get to having "PVP-regions" or "PVP-systems" is a step towards wow... The risk of not getting your ship back will always be there (unless you can claim lag and get away with it). But the annoying thing is how it is getting to the point of not being able to shoot at people where/when you want. There are always ways of doing it, but it's still getting ridiculous. ------------ Originally by: Nexus Kinnon I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
Zedrik Cayne Gallente Session9 Malum Exuro	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:22:00 - [17] What bit CCP is the whole new 'I can join and leave corps while in space' schtick they introduced because suddenly you had pilots that (once they got into that titan) could never really dock up again. How were they supposed to switch corps? The un-intended side effect of course was folks realizing that one could hop into corp while sitting in a belt with a WT. BBQ them, then immediately drop corp. You used to be able to do this, but you had to be in station with an office if memory serves to switch corps. So it was a bit less effective. They'll probably 'fix' it by putting the station restriction back. Unless you're flying an un-dockable ship. Or do something silly like 'no warping or moving' for 15 minutes after switching corps because your computer is busy sending your DNA info through a secure line to notify CONCORD, Pend Insurance, The Sisters, your next of kin, your old corp and your new corp of the change. -- Remember: Carebears aren't people. They are giant flying pi±atas.
Marchocias Silent Ninja's	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:32:00 - [18] Very easy fix... Have a 15 minute timer after you join a corp before you're allowed to join in any wars, and another 15 minute timer before you're no longer considered a wartarget after you leave a corp. The actual joining/leaving of the corp should be instant however. Anyone who has agressed a departing character within that 15 minutes should be given an obvious warning to indicate that their target is soon to no longer be a target, or alternatively any aggression continuing during that 15 minutes should extend the timer appropriately until 15 minutes after the battle has ceased. Job done. ---- Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacoughcoughaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrr!!
Thule Cult	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:36:00 - [19] Originally by: Vaden Khale Link Seriously CCP, why? Is it because of the fools taking CNRs to missions during wartime? It's not exploiting, it's Darwin's cruelest play. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm ****ed. And I don't even use the war dec mechanic. your tears tastes so sweet, jummy.
Lynal Gallente A Few Good Men.	Posted - 2008.08.27 11:46:00 - [20] Originally by: techzer0 Originally by: Lynal just curious here... but have any of you people who claim that eve is becoming wow in space actually played wow? or are you just spewing bs because your ticked? ill tell you what... when ccp announces that when your ship gets blown up you will no longer risk losing skill points, and your ship will be available, undamaged and whole with all its fittings, in the nearest station... and that you will be unable to attack ANYONE outside of certain "pvp zones"... and that the only people you will be able to attack under ANY circumstances must be aligned a certain way in opposition to you, and... etc etc. no matter how "carebear" you think eve is, or is becoming... it is patently impossible for it to ever even remotely resemble wow, in any way, shape or form. The closer we get to having "PVP-regions" or "PVP-systems" is a step towards wow... The risk of not getting your ship back will always be there (unless you can claim lag and get away with it). But the annoying thing is how it is getting to the point of not being able to shoot at people where/when you want. There are always ways of doing it, but it's still getting ridiculous. ok... fair enough. but its still such a minor step in that direction, that its almost irrelevant. point is... over-exaggerating is over-exaggerating. its one thing to make a valid claim about eve becoming more carebearish (it may be, but not in unavoidable ways like you said... and tbh, i agree with ccp on that point... it should be harder to do "illegal" things in areas that are supposedly being patrolled by law enforcement agencies such as concord, than it is in low sec and null sec)... its quite another to over blow things to try and make a point. Originally by: Daeva Vios It's fair when the larger force is on my side. It's lame when the larger force is on their side. How have people not figured this out yet?
mahj Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.27 12:00:00 - [21] its not intended game play, live with it or gtfo. and if you need someone to greif go kick the dog/cat or wife if your a real p.o.s.
Ardrilian Gallente Glowing Goat	Posted - 2008.08.27 12:04:00 - [22] Has any of you who are defending this tactic ever thought about what it really does? It's been said that a corp under a war-dec should never bring their fancy/expensive ships into play as long as the dec is up. Fair enough. However there are a few points that seem massively imbalanced in the sheme that is now an exploit: 1) You're locking out a carebear corp from all their activities with minimal ISK investment (they can't bring their expensive ships). 2) You don't provide any means for them to defend since there is only an inactive alt in the decing corp that can at no point be fought against (even if the carebears would want to do it). The only choice is to either ignore the dec (rather suicidal) or leave the corp eventually. 3) You're circumventing any possible means of intel/defense as there is no way of telling whether a character who is currently in a npc corp is actually in mid-warp to your position and will have joined the waring corp by the time he leaves warp. This, while very creative (however I seem to recall that the Taxman was using exactly this tactic quite some time ago already), should make it quite obvious why it isn't very balanced. Corp-hopping in order to avoid decs is just as imbalanced and on those grounds I fully understand why people are upset about the recent announcement of CCP. Yet it would be nice if some people would spend at least some time thinking about the whole thing before shouting fire.
Gavin Darklighter THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.08.27 12:05:00 - [23] EVE is not WOW in space. You just need to move to lowsec and quit being a WOW player in EVE. signature picture exceeds the size limit.~WeatherMan
Nexus Kinnon A Few Good Men.	Posted - 2008.08.27 12:19:00 - [24] I guess this rule also depends on the interpretation of the GM at the time, since the exploit is "insta" joining a corp, then surely if you join a corp, wait 24 hours, and then attack; it's not an exploit, right?
Vaden Khale Amarr the united	Posted - 2008.08.27 13:01:00 - [25] Who knows, maybe as long as you're not sitting in the same belt as the WT, as long as you're docked up or in an adjacent system, then fine. How's this for a solution to both the corp hopping and this mechanic. When you leave a corp that's at war, you yourself also have 24 hour cooldown. Corp A war decs mining Corp B. Player A in corp A is ****ed off at Player B in corp B for something said in local, whatever. Player B doesn't want to risk anything in the war, so he leaves the corp. Game mechanic. But if Player C ups and joins Corp B out of the blue and immediately shoots a WT, it's an exploit? Why not just have Player B have a 24 hour cooldown on aggression so he can still be shot? He's left the corp, but it will effectively remove the whole join/pop WT/leave mechanic that they're dubbing an exploit. It will also make the GM discretion issue of this 'exploit' a lot less variable. Hold my beer while I nail your sister.
Myrhial Arkenath Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.08.27 13:06:00 - [26] Originally by: Marchocias Very easy fix... Have a 15 minute timer after you join a corp before you're allowed to join in any wars, and another 15 minute timer before you're no longer considered a wartarget after you leave a corp. The actual joining/leaving of the corp should be instant however. Anyone who has agressed a departing character within that 15 minutes should be given an obvious warning to indicate that their target is soon to no longer be a target, or alternatively any aggression continuing during that 15 minutes should extend the timer appropriately until 15 minutes after the battle has ceased. Job done. This. Diary of a pod pilot
Raniss	Posted - 2008.08.27 13:07:00 - [27] You piwate tears taste so sweet...keep on crying plz.
Nexus Kinnon A Few Good Men.	Posted - 2008.08.27 13:21:00 - [28] Originally by: Raniss You piwate tears taste so sweet...keep on crying plz. No one here is crying. We are suggesting solutions and ways of working around the problem. Maybe you should try it before taking to the whinemobile, asking CCP to change things for you because you were dropped on your head as a child and thus lack critical thinking skills.
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood	Posted - 2008.08.27 13:56:00 - [29] Originally by: Lynal Originally by: Havohej If they keep moving this game in the direction they are (towards being WoW in space), I might just GB2 WoW (not really, I'll probably make a mission alt to sit in highsec and fund my main's griefing activities like everyone else is already doing) - at least then I'd have less lag in large group activities. just curious here... but have any of you people who claim that eve is becoming wow in space actually played wow? or are you just spewing bs because your ticked? Seriously? With my corporation's name... have I actually played wow? Yes. Yes, I have. While I agree that it's unlikely they will change the game so that you get all your stuff back if it gets blown up, and you just need to dock and repair it, all the other stuff isn't very far from what they're doing now - you can't see that? When I joined the game last October, you could be killed anywhere, any time, by anyone with nothing more than the guarantee that your killer's ships would be destroyed if they killed you in 0.5-1.0 space without benefit of wardec or can aggro. 1. Then, the P-nerf, where they changed the wardecs so that PRVTR couldn't do what they'd been doing. Carebears 1, PvP 0 2. The iMune = Exploit declaration said carebears couldn't alliance hop their corps to wash off a wardec. Carebears 1, PvP 1 3. Since they can't alliance hop their corps, they start making alt corps and corp hopping their characters, leaving alts in place to hold the corporations open, exploiting the fact that a corp can only have 3 wardecs active - the 4th alt corp makes you imune to wardec from the aggressing corporation unless they also form alt corps and corp hop. Thing is, starting a corp is a 1-time fee. Wardecs are a weekly fee, and cost more to boot. Even worse are the ones who just drop into the NPC corp, which can't be wardec'd at all so that even an enemy persistent and willing to pay the ISK to get at their target is left with no option other than suicide ganking - but CCP won't tell a player what corp they can or can't join or when they can or can't join it (see 7, below). Carebears 2, PvP 1 4. No answer, despite Mitnal's promise in the CAOD thread, as to whether IVY's use of several alt corps to drive the price of wardecing themselves up into the billions - silence = consent, obviously, seeing as if they don't say it's an exploit then it isn't an exploit. Carebears 3, PvP 1 5. They've stated that they're going to nerf suicide ganking, saying that you'll still be able to do it but your sec status will get much worse much faster, basically removing it as a viable profession, which is so contrary to the 'nature of EVE' as it used to be that if you don't see it as a negative, you're one of the carebears they're catering to - and by your corp name, I can't imagine that's the case. Anyway, there's your step towards having it so that "you will be unable to attack ANYONE outside of certain "pvp zones"" - note that in the dev blog, CCP Fear says: "This should move most ganking to the lower security areas where it belongs." Carebears 4, PvP 1 6. "and that the only people you will be able to attack under ANY circumstances must be aligned a certain way in opposition to you"? FW. Also, in the dev blog CCP Fear also says "and of course those at war or in 0.0 won't be affected." when mentioning the sec hit from pod killing. You can still shoot at people so far, but they're really pushing the faction warfare and war thing pretty hard here lately. The 0.0 part also speaks to the "pvp zones" idea, addressed in number 5. Carebears 5, PvP 1 7. Now this here, declaring it an exploit to corp hop for kills - yes, it's lame. Yes, it's an exploit. But see 2, above. It's not an exploit to do the same exact thing when you don't want to kill someone - only when you do want to kill someone. Carebears 6, PvP 1. Trying to think of another PvP win, but... Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
Raniss	Posted - 2008.08.27 14:11:00 - [30] Originally by: Nexus Kinnon Originally by: Raniss You piwate tears taste so sweet...keep on crying plz. No one here is crying. We are suggesting solutions and ways of working around the problem. Maybe you should try it before taking to the whinemobile, asking CCP to change things for you because you were dropped on your head as a child and thus lack critical thinking skills. Keep on trying...keep on crying. They still taste sweet.
Nekopyat	Posted - 2008.08.27 14:40:00 - [31] Originally by: Havohej Personally, I think it's a lame 'tactic', but that's not the point. An even lamer 'tactic' is creating a bunch of alt corps and flying without roles so you can just hop-hop-hop-hop-hop your way out of ever dying without being suicide ganked at all... This bit baffles me. So they made one type of hopping an exploit, but not the other type?? I can see getting rid of the whole 'hop in, shoot, hop out to avoid counterattack' sequence.. but that could just have easily been handled by JUST stopping the 'hop out' part, which would have delt with the corp hopping at the same time. is baffled
Vaden Khale Amarr the united	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:48:00 - [32] Originally by: Nekopyat Originally by: Havohej Personally, I think it's a lame 'tactic', but that's not the point. An even lamer 'tactic' is creating a bunch of alt corps and flying without roles so you can just hop-hop-hop-hop-hop your way out of ever dying without being suicide ganked at all... This bit baffles me. So they made one type of hopping an exploit, but not the other type?? I can see getting rid of the whole 'hop in, shoot, hop out to avoid counterattack' sequence.. but that could just have easily been handled by JUST stopping the 'hop out' part, which would have delt with the corp hopping at the same time. is baffled Exactly. It's such a huge decision obviously catering to care bears. They complain that they get no chance to respond to people joining corps and shooting at them. Do the war deccers have any chance of firing a shot in anger when they corp hop? I started over a year ago, and back then it seemed if you got war decced, you gritted your teeth and fought back, dissolved, or paid the war deccers off, or whatever was applicable to the situation. Now, you can just corp hop to your hearts content. CCP seems to be removing more and more of the 'risk' portion of the risk and reward balance in high sec. And as far as my 'piwate tears,' thank you for helping my point. As I previously stated, I don't even use this mechanic. I never leave low sec. But for those who reside in high sec trying to make a living through war decs, I feel empathy. My reason for concern is that if they continue down this path, what's going to be next? Sentry guns insta-popping battleships? Concord intervention in low sec dependent on the character's sec status? Honestly CCP, what are you going to do next to cater to the carebears? Instead of this blatant exploit notification, why not change the corp joining/leaving mechanic? Regardless of roles, once you join, you can't leave for 24 hours. People will still be able to join and leave corps practically at will if they don't have roles, and it removes the ability for characters to join, pop a target, then leave corp immediately afterward. If that doesn't suit your taste, come up with something else. Just not this. The hypocrisy of this decision makes me question where this game is going. Hold my beer while I nail your sister.
Emmi	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:56:00 - [33] Why....? Why does everyone sound so angry?? I started playing because I heard the people who played this game were nice and happy... Why do you all dislike "carebears"? We are just new players who need help.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.08.27 17:59:00 - [34] Originally by: Emmi Why do you all dislike "carebears"? We are just new players who need help. Wrong. The term "carebear" has nothing to do with how new you are to the game. It means players who choose to inhabit highsec space, rather than go into lowsec, where they can be shot with little consequence. Have I just been trolled? We're Recruiting!
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.08.27 18:06:00 - [35] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Emmi Why do you all dislike "carebears"? We are just new players who need help. Wrong. The term "carebear" has nothing to do with how new you are to the game. It means players who choose to inhabit highsec space, rather than go into lowsec, where they can be shot with little consequence. Have I just been trolled? says the high sec ninja salvager back on topic though, i do agree with the "pirates" on this one though, it should be much more difficult to corp hop, but you also have to see, that it says that they cant leave a corp and get concord on their attackers when they insta leave a corporation Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 "*Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer*"
KeLLaX HUNLAR the Almighty Scalar Federation	Posted - 2008.08.27 18:19:00 - [36] it's an exploit because: 1. I dunno if it's fixed but if a wt leaves his/her corp, he/she still appears as war target. Therefore, people may get concorded if they don't have WT's corp/alliance column ticked in overview. 2. People may get confused and still shoot the neutral, thinking it's a wt. This is not something new though, I dunno why CCP is bringing this to ppl's attention now, I was warned by EVE SYSTEM for using this exploit more than 6 months ago too, its nothing new and it's been out there for a while.
Alberico DeSandre	Posted - 2008.08.27 21:48:00 - [37] <-- new player. I can definetly say I learn faster than most, but even as a 2 month newb I can still pretty clearly see that some of you can't see outside YOUR version of what you WANT eve to be. Lets just say that you'd make some shitty game developers. They are trying to keep the safe zone for noobs SAFE. When you bend or bypass the rules they fix it. It's that simple. If I were to form a corp with my 3 other newb friends it would NOT in ANY WAY be a great or educational game experience to get wardecced by some bored veteran players and then lose our entire fortunes because they were bored and wanted to gank some expensive ships flown by noobs. If i wasn't active on reading these forums I wouldn't even know how vulnerable we'd be as our own corp. Don't understand? TLDR? Stop griefing in the safe zones and instead suggest ways to bring people into lowsec.
Deitre Cibrus You're Doing It Wrong	Posted - 2008.08.27 21:50:00 - [38] Originally by: Nexus Kinnon Originally by: Raniss You piwate tears taste so sweet...keep on crying plz. No one here is crying. We are suggesting solutions and ways of working around the problem. Maybe you should try it before taking to the whinemobile, asking CCP to change things for you because you were dropped on your head as a child and thus lack critical thinking skills. lolowned ----------- Originally by: Santiago Cortes Please don't derail your own thread. What is this sig missing? Pretty colours? -Conuion Not true! Has plenty -Deitre
Emmi	Posted - 2008.08.27 21:52:00 - [39] Originally by: Alberico DeSandre <-- new player. I can definetly say I learn faster than most, but even as a 2 month newb I can still pretty clearly see that some of you can't see outside YOUR version of what you WANT eve to be. Lets just say that you'd make some shitty game developers. They are trying to keep the safe zone for noobs SAFE. When you bend or bypass the rules they fix it. It's that simple. If I were to form a corp with my 3 other newb friends it would NOT in ANY WAY be a great or educational game experience to get wardecced by some bored veteran players and then lose our entire fortunes because they were bored and wanted to gank some expensive ships flown by noobs. If i wasn't active on reading these forums I wouldn't even know how vulnerable we'd be as our own corp. Don't understand? TLDR? Stop griefing in the safe zones and instead suggest ways to bring people into lowsec. This
Vaden Khale Amarr the united	Posted - 2008.08.27 22:15:00 - [40] Originally by: Alberico DeSandre Edited by: Alberico DeSandre on 27/08/2008 21:58:31 <-- new player. I can definetly say I learn faster than most, but even as a 2 month newb I can still pretty clearly see that some of you can't see outside YOUR version of what you WANT eve to be. Lets just say that you'd make some shitty game developers. They are trying to keep the safe zone for noobs SAFE. When you bend or bypass the rules they fix it. It's that simple. If I were to form a corp with my 3 other newb friends it would NOT in ANY WAY be a great or educational game experience to get wardecced by some bored veteran players and then lose our entire fortunes because they were bored and wanted to gank some expensive ships flown by noobs. If i wasn't active on reading these forums I wouldn't even know how vulnerable we'd be as our own corp. Don't understand? TLDR? Stop griefing in the safe zones and instead suggest ways to bring people into lowsec. Stop freaking out, the sky is not falling. Nowhere in Eve is supposed to be safe. By clicking the undock button you agree to get shot. And besides, all the suggested ways to get people into low sec would get the carebears whining even more. Hold my beer while I nail your sister.
Gwendalyne Caldari Angelic Industries	Posted - 2008.08.27 22:39:00 - [41] Edited by: Gwendalyne on 27/08/2008 22:39:59 Well that's easy to figure out... Everyone literally starts the game a carebear, and work toward PvP from there (or, don't). They're catering, not to the carebears, but to newbies with trial accounts, AKA prospecive subscribers. Like for example... me! I can deal with the risk of PvP play, I can take a loss in PvP, and I can certainly (though not now) start killing in kind. I don't, and the reason why would invite flames and require another thread to handle, so I'll keep it to myself from here. So yeah, basically, they want more people like me, who would rather CHOOSE to or NOT to be in PvP situations, rather than being thrown in a crocodile pit, naked. EDIT: Most awesome way to say it right, here, quoted from above post: that some of you can't see outside YOUR version of what you WANT eve to be. "Videogames don't make People into RL Killers, but the People who make Videogames Killing into RL."
Nexus Kinnon A Few Good Men.	Posted - 2008.08.27 22:53:00 - [42] Originally by: Alberico DeSandre Stop griefing I can tell you're new
Lynal Gallente A Few Good Men.	Posted - 2008.08.27 23:17:00 - [43] Originally by: Havohej Edited by: Havohej on 27/08/2008 14:09:02 Character limit, and stuff. Anyways, yeah, it's certainly using hyperbole to illustrate the point. No, they'll never have avatars with huge purple breasts, thongs and pointed ears flying mah spaceships, but they're considering the need for safety of the poor, defenseless sheeple before considering the need for the cold, harsh EVE of the not-so-poor, not-so-defenseless sheeple. Which isn't so bad, mind you... what's aggravating is that they put the carebear first nearly every time. unfortunatly you do have to understand that ccp is a business... and (now that i do look at your corp name) since you have played wow... you must be able to see the potential profit that catering to carebears provides. wow currently has nearly 3/4 of the ENTIRE online gaming population. now im not saying that eve should become wow, and i honestly dont believe it ever will. as far as im concerned, so long as these limitations stay in high sec, its fine. high sec is supposed to be highly patrolled and legally enforced space... there should be greater penalties for cirumventing the rules there... low and null sec, not so much. also on that note... even with all these changes ccp is putting in, there are ways around them. the penalties may be harsher than before... but that does not prevent you from actually doing it. the day when ccp changes the game's mechanics to physically prevent you from even attempting to do something (as is the case in wow), rather than simply penalizing you for doing something... then ill agree that eve has gotten carebearish. Originally by: Daeva Vios It's fair when the larger force is on my side. It's lame when the larger force is on their side. How have people not figured this out yet?
Lynal Gallente A Few Good Men.	Posted - 2008.08.27 23:20:00 - [44] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Emmi Why do you all dislike "carebears"? We are just new players who need help. Wrong. The term "carebear" has nothing to do with how new you are to the game. It means players who choose to inhabit highsec space, rather than go into lowsec, where they can be shot with little consequence. Have I just been trolled? you mean to tell me that suicide gankers who never left the amar system were carebears? no... a carebear isnt someone who never leaves high sec... its someone who does absolutly no pvp and in fact goes out of their way to avoid pvp in any form. which is fine... there needs to be that sort of player in eve... if there wasnt then nobody would have any fancy ships or modules... the pirates and gankers sure as hell wouldnt be spending the necessary time to supply the entire eve population with ships and fittings if the carebears didnt/couldnt. Originally by: Daeva Vios It's fair when the larger force is on my side. It's lame when the larger force is on their side. How have people not figured this out yet?
Xasz AnTi.	Posted - 2008.08.27 23:25:00 - [45] Originally by: Havohej When they say they won't (not can't, but WON'T) do anything about people corphopping to avoid wars, but then they declare this to be an exploit, it doesn't really add up. This is EXACTLY the issue at hand. In essence, it is the same thing executed on different ends of the spectrum. It's just wrong to declare one thing an exploit, but not have it go both ways. Bleh. As the title says... --Random Links:-- eve-pirate.com, read and share your Yarr adventures Ransom Boards, get one for your corp
Lynal Gallente A Few Good Men.	Posted - 2008.08.27 23:26:00 - [46] Originally by: Vaden Khale Originally by: Alberico DeSandre Edited by: Alberico DeSandre on 27/08/2008 21:58:31 <-- new player. I can definetly say I learn faster than most, but even as a 2 month newb I can still pretty clearly see that some of you can't see outside YOUR version of what you WANT eve to be. Lets just say that you'd make some shitty game developers. They are trying to keep the safe zone for noobs SAFE. When you bend or bypass the rules they fix it. It's that simple. If I were to form a corp with my 3 other newb friends it would NOT in ANY WAY be a great or educational game experience to get wardecced by some bored veteran players and then lose our entire fortunes because they were bored and wanted to gank some expensive ships flown by noobs. If i wasn't active on reading these forums I wouldn't even know how vulnerable we'd be as our own corp. Don't understand? TLDR? Stop griefing in the safe zones and instead suggest ways to bring people into lowsec. Stop freaking out, the sky is not falling. Nowhere in Eve is supposed to be safe. By clicking the undock button you agree to get shot. And besides, all the suggested ways to get people into low sec would get the carebears whining even more. i remember hearing something awhile back that i think even the carebears would agree to. any of you who used to play swg should remember the crafting system there. basically, materials had different properties depending on where you got them from. this in turn would lead to different finished products... products made with the higher quality (read rare and more valuable) materials were of a higher quality... and were worth more. if ccp were to implement this sort of system... where materials gathered in low and null sec were of higher quality than high sec, and subsequently let you make better and more valuable end products... then you'd see more carebears in low and null sec. not all of them to be sure, but a good percent... basically you need to make the risk vs reward balanced enough to draw them out of high sec. unfortunatly im pretty sure that eve's database is hardcoded, meaning that all items and ships are fixed in the database without room for slight differences depending on materials used :/ Originally by: Daeva Vios It's fair when the larger force is on my side. It's lame when the larger force is on their side. How have people not figured this out yet?
Lola Rust Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.29 03:32:00 - [47] Originally by: Lynal if ccp were to implement this sort of system... where materials gathered in low and null sec were of higher quality than high sec, and subsequently let you make better and more valuable end products... then you'd see more carebears in low and null sec. You mean like, for example, mining Zydrine and Megacyte in lowsec/0.0? Or other expensive highend minerals that are found only in lowsec/0.0? That make the pricetag on certain products so high? OR THE ****ING MOON MINERALS REQUIRED FOR T2 PRODUCTION? You're sharp as a spoon, and half as useful. GB2SWG. In space no one can hear you cream.
Clair Bear Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.08.29 04:34:00 - [48] Edited by: Clair Bear on 29/08/2008 04:34:21 Originally by: Lola Rust You mean like, for example, mining Zydrine and Megacyte in lowsec/0.0? Or other expensive highend minerals that are found only in lowsec/0.0? Actually, all minerals up to and including morph are obtainable from missioning. You have a point re: t2 products though.
Newbear	Posted - 2008.08.29 06:07:00 - [49] I aprove of this nerf! There is too much violence in the galaxy already. I hear age of conan needs players, go play there if you need to pvp so bad. Click here for my High Security POS Service
Artemis Rose Varion Galactic Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.29 07:03:00 - [50] So guys, when do you think war decs become exploits? __________________________________________________ Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine. WTB Purple Nerf Bat.
Lynal Gallente A Few Good Men.	Posted - 2008.08.29 12:06:00 - [51] Edited by: Lynal on 29/08/2008 12:08:50 Originally by: Lola Rust Originally by: Lynal if ccp were to implement this sort of system... where materials gathered in low and null sec were of higher quality than high sec, and subsequently let you make better and more valuable end products... then you'd see more carebears in low and null sec. You mean like, for example, mining Zydrine and Megacyte in lowsec/0.0? Or other expensive highend minerals that are found only in lowsec/0.0? That make the pricetag on certain products so high? OR THE **ING MOON MINERALS REQUIRED FOR T2 PRODUCTION? You're sharp as a spoon, and half as useful. GB2SWG. no... i mean even more in depth than that. its risk vs reward remember? the simple fact is that there is not enough reward to entice those carebears who spend 23 hours a day 7 days a week farming veldspar to go to lowsec. even with zydrine and whatnot... namely because the few people who do go to get those minerals (there must be some because its not very difficult to get t2 stuff nowadays is it?). but make it even more profitable for them... you cant tempt them into low sec by offering them pvp, when thats not what they want. they want isk... make it worth it for more of them to leave high sec. you do that by making more valuable stuff available ONLY in low sec (that means get rid of minerals obtainable through missions for example). it also means, as an example, making stuff like say veldspar have different properties depending on where you get it. say they mine veld in 1.0 space... anything made from that veld has no special bonuses (or perhaps even a slight penalty... less armor on ships made from it perhaps)... while the stuff mined in low sec is the opposite (bonuses over the high sec end products). basically make t2 stuff produced from low sec minerals better than t2 stuff produced from minerals gathered elsewhere. you would probably still see your solo miners sticking to the safe stuff in high sec, but with the potential for greater profit (due to being able to produce superior quality products ONLY from what you get in low sec... or simply produce products that, while also available from high sec, are better in low sec) you'd probably find certain carebear corps migrating... which means more targets in general. bottom line... stfu or propose something else. instead of insulting me without providing anything useful, come up with an idea that might actually work, instead of just whining that people who dont want to pvp arent go into places where they will be forced to pvp... as i said before, "come to low sec and pvp" is not an enticement to get people who dont want to pvp to go there. Originally by:** Daeva Vios It's fair when the larger force is on my side. It's lame when the larger force is on their side. How have people not figured this out yet?
Nexus Kinnon A Few Good Men.	Posted - 2008.08.29 12:09:00 - [52] The best proposal for improving the mining in lowsec was variants of stuff like scordite and veldspar which gave +30% - +40% yield over bog standard veld.
Pteranodon	Posted - 2008.08.29 12:47:00 - [53] I see none consenting PVP as ****-a hostile attack. Let us face facts. You do not have to be a pirate to work out that if a attacks b & b don't like it he has no choice other than to fight & run or loose his precious CNR. War however is different-lots of people did not want to go to war but they did it out of a sense of duty & as you all know it goes on for real even now. I think the choice of how you play needs to be much more clearly defined. I think CCP would be better at putting in a few 100 new systems where carebears can run missions or mine without fear of attack but the missions need to be much harder. If you leave the carebear systems then it is open season. I think a simple way to keep the carebear systems safe is that you can't commit a hostile act toward a fellow player in a pre defined carebear system. I think in time Eve will be heading this way. I was talking to a friend of mine-a Policeman & his view-which could be echoed here is that he has no problem with criminals doing what they do provided that they don't get get innocent people involved in there activities. If 2 pirates want to slug it out that is fine but leave innocent joe out of it. I have no views in either bias. If I go to low sec & get blown up-which happens a lot-I don't whine at my attacker I just shrug my shoulders & move on. Perhaps we need a utopia to keep both camps happy. War in the carbear systems no- as it moves back to a big grey area. Corps at war cant enter the carebear systems & anybody in a carebear system whose corp is at war is not allowed to fight even if flagged as hostile. It is only an idea so flame for all you like but remember we could be getting something like this in nthe future.
Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.29 12:55:00 - [54] Originally by: Pteranodon I see none consenting PVP as ****-a hostile attack. Let us face facts. You do not have to be a pirate to work out that if a attacks b & b don't like it he has no choice other than to fight & run or loose his precious CNR. War however is different-lots of people did not want to go to war but they did it out of a sense of duty & as you all know it goes on for real even now. I think the choice of how you play needs to be much more clearly defined. I think CCP would be better at putting in a few 100 new systems where carebears can run missions or mine without fear of attack but the missions need to be much harder. If you leave the carebear systems then it is open season. I think a simple way to keep the carebear systems safe is that you can't commit a hostile act toward a fellow player in a pre defined carebear system. I think in time Eve will be heading this way. I was talking to a friend of mine-a Policeman & his view-which could be echoed here is that he has no problem with criminals doing what they do provided that they don't get get innocent people involved in there activities. If 2 pirates want to slug it out that is fine but leave innocent joe out of it. I have no views in either bias. If I go to low sec & get blown up-which happens a lot-I don't whine at my attacker I just shrug my shoulders & move on. Perhaps we need a utopia to keep both camps happy. War in the carbear systems no- as it moves back to a big grey area. Corps at war cant enter the carebear systems & anybody in a carebear system whose corp is at war is not allowed to fight even if flagged as hostile. It is only an idea so flame for all you like but remember we could be getting something like this in nthe future. Wha....? Non consentual PvP is Eve. Eve is non consentual PvP. That established fact has only started to be challenged by WoW migrants over the past year or so. For the sake of all of us Eve-players, please go back from whence you came. You're not wanted here.
Pteranodon	Posted - 2008.08.29 13:05:00 - [55] Edited by: Pteranodon on 29/08/2008 13:08:55 Interesting. A hostile response. Not unexpected really. If you read my post properly & don't jump on your soapbox I said I'm not biased either way. I see both sides of the arguement & whether you like it or not provision is coming-even if it is slow to cateer for people who don't want to fight. You want to fight & that is fine but don't force people who don't want to fight. If you want to slug it out with your fellows that is excellent but If I dont want to slug it out then dont make me. I pay my subscription to CCP & my opinion does count as does yours & you would do well to remember that and be more courteous to balanced argument.
Hammerfall Ceo Caldari Hammerfall Industries	Posted - 2008.08.29 13:09:00 - [56] This thread is fail. This game is PVPONLINE! HAMMERFALL INDUSTRIES LOTTERY (all tickets are free)
Pteranodon	Posted - 2008.08.29 13:12:00 - [57] Edited by: Pteranodon on 29/08/2008 13:13:12 Originally by: Hammerfall Ceo This thread is fail. This game is PVPONLINE! Well. It used to be-but times change & we will need to consider adapting. Consider mission running, Industry, salvaging-it's not just PVP fighting
Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.29 13:14:00 - [58] Originally by: Pteranodon Edited by: Pteranodon on 29/08/2008 13:08:55 Interesting. A hostile response. Not unexpected really. If you read my post properly & don't jump on your soapbox I said I'm not biased either way. I see both sides of the arguement & whether you like it or not provision is coming-even if it is slow to cateer for people who don't want to fight. You can say that you aren't biased how many times you want. The rest of your posts prove otherwise. For instance, the bolded part here. People who don't want to fight should bloody well be forced to fight in Eve. That's what non consentual means. Originally by: Pteranodon You want to fight & that is fine but don't force people who don't want to fight. There you go again! N-o-n c-o-n-s-e-n-t-u-a-l. Unbiased my ass. Originally by: Pteranodon [ If you want to slug it out with your fellows that is excellent but If I dont want to slug it out then dont make me. Yes, I'm going to make you. You singed up for a game that has non consentual PvP. I'm one of the people who read through the description of the game before signing up, so I knew that. Originally by: Pteranodon [ I pay my subscription to CCP & my opinion does count as does yours & you would do well to remember that and be more courteous to balanced argument. No, your 14.95 a month does NOT give you the right to play basketball on a football court. You will play the non consentual PvP game you signed up for, or you will not play at all. Pretty simple, really. Seems there's many stupid people signing up to Eve nowadays. You wouldn't happen to have singed up from Steam, would you? Ex-WoW player?
Pteranodon	Posted - 2008.08.29 13:21:00 - [59] I respect your opinions. It is a pity you dont respect mine. I am saying that there is a place in Eve to cater for every camp. If I want to mine & build my own private empire in peace I should be allowed to. Keep you war mongering in unsafe regions amongst your like mined fellows & all is fine. I'm not saying you cant fight but just do it on your own turf with people who want to fight. No-I've never subscribed to Steam or WOW so that comment is somwhat lame. I did read CCP's small print to some extent but missed the bit that said I could be shafted by somebody with 4 years experience versus my 9 months in the game.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.08.29 13:28:00 - [60] Originally by: Pteranodon If I want to mine & build my own private empire in peace I should be allowed to. I believe that this is where you are mistaken. CCP has stated that Highsec is not meant to be "safe", only safer than Lowsec. You are not exempt from being put upon by those who want the same things for themselves. Think about this - what makes your own private empire immune from those who want to claim your space for their own? You say you want to amass a great wealth and fortune, and do it in relative safety? You have that, it's called Empire Space. You say you want to do it, without the risk of anyone taking it from you? I'm sorry, but that's not EvE. We're Recruiting!
Pteranodon	Posted - 2008.08.29 13:31:00 - [61] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Pteranodon If I want to mine & build my own private empire in peace I should be allowed to. I believe that this is where you are mistaken. CCP has stated that Highsec is not meant to be "safe", only safer than Lowsec. You are not exempt from being put upon by those who want the same things for themselves. Think about this - what makes your own private empire immune from those who want to claim your space for their own? You say you want to amass a great wealth and fortune, and do it in relative safety? You have that, it's called Empire Space. You say you want to do it, without the risk of anyone taking it from you? I'm sorry, but that's not EvE. .....but it will be in the future....just you wait
Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.29 13:36:00 - [62] Originally by: Pteranodon .....but it will be in the future....just you wait The day Eve becomes what you want it to become is the day it dies.
Temujin Ambaghai	Posted - 2008.08.29 13:38:00 - [63] Eve is at WAR!!! all of eve not just fw, if you're amarr you're friends with caldari and hate minmitards and gallente, etc etc. it is a ROLE PLAYING GAME. if you want to live a peaceful existence i'm sorry, but eve is meant to resemble a real world model with all kinds of people. that means you get your bad apples in your "safe place". sure you get punished for your actions, you lose a ship, i'm all for having some stricter rules on suicide ganking, like make insurance on a ship that suicides in high sec void, so that people aren't just randomly blowing stuff up, but if it's worth it they can still go for it, like any crime there needs to be sacrifice, but if the reward is worth it go for it. but really... making places where you just can't be attacked destroys the entire idea behind eve, which is realism, anything can happen anywhere, just be aware of the consequences. so mister uber carebear that wants to "create his own little empire" please... learn what the game is about or gtfo
Pteranodon	Posted - 2008.08.29 13:44:00 - [64] Originally by: Temujin Ambaghai Eve is at WAR!!! all of eve not just fw, if you're amarr you're friends with caldari and hate minmitards and gallente, etc etc. it is a ROLE PLAYING GAME. if you want to live a peaceful existence i'm sorry, but eve is meant to resemble a real world model with all kinds of people. that means you get your bad apples in your "safe place". sure you get punished for your actions, you lose a ship, i'm all for having some stricter rules on suicide ganking, like make insurance on a ship that suicides in high sec void, so that people aren't just randomly blowing stuff up, but if it's worth it they can still go for it, like any crime there needs to be sacrifice, but if the reward is worth it go for it. but really... making places where you just can't be attacked destroys the entire idea behind eve, which is realism, anything can happen anywhere, just be aware of the consequences. so mister uber carebear that wants to "create his own little empire" please... learn what the game is about or gtfo Good for you
Nexus Kinnon A Few Good Men.	Posted - 2008.08.29 13:52:00 - [65] Pteranodon, I have to echo what an above poster said, the day EVE becomes what you want, is the day it dies.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.08.29 13:58:00 - [66] Originally by: Pteranodon .....but it will be in the future....just you wait If you're going to give blanket statements such as this, I have to ask you for proof. So, to put it bluntly, "put up or shut up." We're Recruiting!
Pteranodon	Posted - 2008.08.29 14:09:00 - [67] Originally by: Nexus Kinnon Pteranodon, I have to echo what an above poster said, the day EVE becomes what you want, is the day it dies. But you said it diplomatically the other guy said it like a t**t
Pteranodon	Posted - 2008.08.29 14:16:00 - [68] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Pteranodon .....but it will be in the future....just you wait If you're going to give blanket statements such as this, I have to ask you for proof. So, to put it bluntly, "put up or shut up." Carebears make up a very big part of Eve & if you ask most of them don't want to have there assets stolen-I know I don't. There voices are being heard & slowly we will see the changes & what is so bad about 2 areas of Eve-It is not as if you have to change anything. If you don't like carebears land don't go there-I don't like PVP much but I'm forced into it. Did you honestly think I wanted to train PVP ships. The reason I'm useless at PVP is that my heart is not in it & to be sucessful at anything you have to have a heart. I don't care if you agree or not but slowly changes are coming & if you don't like it you may be one of those who might wish to do something else.
Pteranodon	Posted - 2008.08.29 14:19:00 - [69] Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette Originally by: Pteranodon .....but it will be in the future....just you wait The day Eve becomes what you want it to become is the day it dies. Not really. People like you will just leave. There will always be an Eve.
Bklyn 1	Posted - 2008.08.29 14:29:00 - [70] Why is it that pirates have become the biggest whiners? What happened? Have I been switched into an alternate universe? Does Spock have a beard now?
Matrix Skye Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.29 14:42:00 - [71] oh come on ccp!!! eve's supposed to be a SANDBOX, remember??!!!! we should be allow to **** and shit on it!!!1!!
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.08.29 15:17:00 - [72] Originally by: Pteranodon Carebears make up a very big part of Eve & if you ask most of them don't want to have there assets stolen-I know I don't. There voices are being heard & slowly we will see the changes & what is so bad about 2 areas of Eve I'll tell you, that while Carebears do make up a large part of EvE, the ones that share your opinion of 'perfectly safe' space are in the minority. Sure, you can claim that you have the majority, but so can I. You're not showing any proof, so why should I? Originally by: Pteranodon It is not as if you have to change anything. If you don't like carebears land don't go there-I don't like PVP much but I'm forced into it. I take offense to that - no player is ever forced into PvP. With any action taken against you, you always have a choice. Don't be naive. Originally by: Pteranodon I don't care if you agree or not but slowly changes are coming & if you don't like it you may be one of those who might wish to do something else. Let's agree to disagree, but I have a question. Let's say changes are not coming. Let's say EvE never changes into the world you see. What then? Will your needs change? Will you wish to do something else?
Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.29 15:34:00 - [73] Originally by: Pteranodon Originally by: Nexus Kinnon Pteranodon, I have to echo what an above poster said, the day EVE becomes what you want, is the day it dies. But you said it diplomatically the other guy said it like a t**t What? I said it exactly the same way, only without the "Pteranodon, I have to echo what an above poster said". Seing things that aren't there, are we?
Smokie McLottapot Caldari Keepers Of The Gate	Posted - 2008.08.29 16:15:00 - [74] Wahhhhh! They took away an exploit and now petty gankers and wanna-be's have to use valid tactics! Wahhhhh!! You guys should get some cheese to go with your whine.
Nexus Kinnon A Few Good Men.	Posted - 2008.08.29 16:17:00 - [75] Edited by: Nexus Kinnon on 29/08/2008 16:19:25 Originally by: Smokie McLottapot Wahhhhh! They took away an exploit and now petty gankers and wanna-be's have to use valid tactics! Wahhhhh!! You guys should get some cheese to go with your whine. you should get some shut up to go with your shut up edit; I also recommend some get the **** out of C+P on the side
Deitre Cibrus You're Doing It Wrong	Posted - 2008.08.29 16:24:00 - [76] the poster above me is terrible ----------- Originally by: Santiago Cortes Please don't derail your own thread. What is this sig missing? Pretty colours? -Conuion Not true! Has plenty -Deitre
Nexus Kinnon A Few Good Men.	Posted - 2008.08.29 16:27:00 - [77] Originally by: Deitre Cibrus the poster above me is terrible
Deitre Cibrus You're Doing It Wrong	Posted - 2008.08.29 16:33:00 - [78] Originally by: Nexus Kinnon the poster above me is terrible ----------- Originally by: Santiago Cortes Please don't derail your own thread. What is this sig missing? Pretty colours? -Conuion Not true! Has plenty -Deitre
Ural Almerhas 13th PATRIOT CORE	Posted - 2008.08.29 16:34:00 - [79] Originally by: Pteranodon I see none consenting PVP as ****-a hostile attack. Let us face facts. You do not have to be a pirate to work out that if a attacks b & b don't like it he has no choice other than to fight & run or loose his precious CNR. War however is different-lots of people did not want to go to war but they did it out of a sense of duty & as you all know it goes on for real even now. I think the choice of how you play needs to be much more clearly defined. I think CCP would be better at putting in a few 100 new systems where carebears can run missions or mine without fear of attack but the missions need to be much harder. If you leave the carebear systems then it is open season. I think a simple way to keep the carebear systems safe is that you can't commit a hostile act toward a fellow player in a pre defined carebear system. I think in time Eve will be heading this way. I was talking to a friend of mine-a Policeman & his view-which could be echoed here is that he has no problem with criminals doing what they do provided that they don't get get innocent people involved in there activities. If 2 pirates want to slug it out that is fine but leave innocent joe out of it. I have no views in either bias. If I go to low sec & get blown up-which happens a lot-I don't whine at my attacker I just shrug my shoulders & move on. Perhaps we need a utopia to keep both camps happy. War in the carbear systems no- as it moves back to a big grey area. Corps at war cant enter the carebear systems & anybody in a carebear system whose corp is at war is not allowed to fight even if flagged as hostile. It is only an idea so flame for all you like but remember we could be getting something like this in nthe future. This has been tried in another game already, its called Ultima Online and u know what it did? Ruined the game, they lost massive amounts of there hardcore player base becus while catering to new players and creating a safe haven for them, those new players just stayed there. Players who had perfected the art of being a thief or a murderer in the game now had no targets, becus the targets all went to the safe version of the game. People who start playing eve should realize immediately the risks of the Eve Universe. Those risks being that an attack can come from anywhere at anytime. I think the problem with eve right now is what was said earlier, there needs to be more of a reward for going to low sec, and less of a reward to staying in high sec. I also agree that if your going to call hopping into a corp to attack a war target an exploit, that leaving one and creating a new corp right away should be one as well. Leaving to an NPC corp, fine cus then you lose the benifits of having a corp, but leaving and starting a new corp is rediculous.
Nexa Necis The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.08.29 18:02:00 - [80] Originally by: Havohej I saw this, too... When they say they won't (not can't, but WON'T) do anything about people corphopping to avoid wars, but then they declare this to be an exploit, it doesn't really add up. Personally, I think it's a lame 'tactic', but that's not the point. An even lamer 'tactic' is creating a bunch of alt corps and flying without roles so you can just hop-hop-hop-hop-hop your way out of ever dying without being suicide ganked at all... especially since they're nerfing suicide ganks now, too. If they keep moving this game in the direction they are (towards being WoW in space), I might just GB2 WoW (not really, I'll probably make a mission alt to sit in highsec and fund my main's griefing activities like everyone else is already doing) - at least then I'd have less lag in large group activities. I definitely agree on this one. So them creating bogus corps to avoid war while making the agressor spend lots of ISK while they spend little to no ISK is fair? It does seem a bit extreme to label the insta corp join/quit a exploit but not the other. Eventually you will have it where there will be no war in high sec. It will all be low sec or null sec I am guessing. Next up will be not being able to shoot corpmates because then the evil pirates will sneak into carebear corps and shoot their mates while missioning, which of course will hurt the carebears feelings and traumatize them beyond belief. I've had corps pull this trick on me. I'd engage and then 5 people who joined seconds ago warp in and try to kill me. I think it's a lame tactic, but a valid one. I would say the corp jump exploit is way more prevalent than this one. I've had this one done 2 or 3 times to me. I've had the corp jumping one done 20+ times easily, as recent as a week ago and that was by people who claim to be PvP'ers with neg sec status and bounties on them. It doesn't make sense to me. You're not allowed to abuse the join/quit mechanic of the corps to aid in killing someone, but you can exploit it to avoid dying. Carebears, here is your cake, enjoy eating it.
Genvu Daikanta Gallente Fade To Black	Posted - 2008.08.29 18:08:00 - [81] Originally by: Marchocias Are the people complaning about this actually serious? i think the people crying are the ones that were using this exploit from the start lame tbh glad its fixed.
Bronson Hughes ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2008.08.29 18:32:00 - [82] Originally by: Havohej Stuff I think Havohej nailed it on the head here. Regardless of how lame you may think either tactic (e.g. corp jumping to avoid a war or to get the drop on a target) is, both are a way of manipulating the WarDec system to your advantage and should be treated equally by CCP. It makes no sense that one is an exploit while the other isn't when they are essentially the exact same thing. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Nexa Necis The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.08.29 19:50:00 - [83] Edited by: Nexa Necis on 29/08/2008 19:51:36 Edited by: Nexa Necis on 29/08/2008 19:51:19 I thought maybe this is a sort of stealth "nerf" that initially appears to solely cater to the "carebear" populace, but in actuallity it's for the rascals who have been stymied by the corp jump exploit. So I thought, "Cool, now when I dec Joeschmo, and he jumps corp instantly, I can petiton because he was trying to fool me into getting Concordokkened. Then when he does it again and again, I can claim that he's again tricking me into shooting and not really jumping to avoid war." Then I came back to reality and realized that the second they ask the person about it, he will claim, "Dude! I hate war! DO NOT WANT!" so they will say it's no exploit, he's just dodging bullets. Again, I don't think anyone in this thread is whining at all. I brought up the corp jumping exploit long ago and CCP said at first it was not an exploit, then they said they were looking into it, but no one has heard anything about it since then and no one has posted about it since then. So it's not whining. It's more like head-scratching wondering how come if the "bad guys" do it, it's an exploit because someone dies from it, but if "Mr PvPhater" does it, it's completely legal. I understand there is a difference in the intent between the tactic of having people join on the sly to surprise their enemy vs. jumping corps to avoid the war. My understanding from my many petitions was that basically, them jumping corp and creating bullshit corps to hide in wasn't a quantifiable element, meaning they cannot tell if the person is running from war or just tired of their current corp. That's even with the case of 2 or 3 man corps who jump 20 times in one month. CCP said, "It's fair, they can do it all day and you're allowed to dec every single corp they jump to." Now all of a sudden it's a quantifiable element because it's being used to kill people? Wouldn't this be sort of similar to a log-in trap? I mean you undock, you see a war target, he's in his BS, you're in your own BS, you engage him and a few seconds later, 10 people log in and warp into the fight and you're dead. You had no idea, you had no time to prepare and no way of preventing it. Exploit? Edited for grammar purposes.
Dizeezer Velar Caldari League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees	Posted - 2008.08.29 20:42:00 - [84] Originally by: Pteranodon Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Pteranodon .....but it will be in the future....just you wait If you're going to give blanket statements such as this, I have to ask you for proof. So, to put it bluntly, "put up or shut up." Carebears make up a very big part of Eve & if you ask most of them don't want to have there assets stolen-I know I don't. There voices are being heard & slowly we will see the changes & what is so bad about 2 areas of Eve-It is not as if you have to change anything. If you don't like carebears land don't go there-I don't like PVP much but I'm forced into it. Did you honestly think I wanted to train PVP ships. The reason I'm useless at PVP is that my heart is not in it & to be sucessful at anything you have to have a heart. I don't care if you agree or not but slowly changes are coming & if you don't like it you may be one of those who might wish to do something else. Where is your highsec pos at? Me and a few friends would like to touch it. [/url]
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.29 20:43:00 - [85] raises hand Carebear here, I would just like to mention that unlike my more radical collegue I do NOT want Eve 100% in any location. It is what makes it fun, the potential danger. However, I do like CCP's statement of exploit. I have been in dozens of wardecs and at sometime in every one the aggressor has attacked, docked, dropped from corp and left with us not able to shoot at them. THEY declared war on US, then chicken out when they find themselves out-gunned and cornered. In the past this would also result in over-view lag, which kept them flashy red and result in Concord response when we fired (without concord warnings too). This mechanic is being used "In ways not intended" which is CCP's definition of an exploit. It does nothing to make Eve "safer" for CCP to enforce this ruling. Using this tactic also completely nullifies the honored tradition of watching local and paying attention to your surroundings, giving the "target" no warning of agression. Its broken. ------------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Wrangler Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
Ambrosious Martin Son of Man	Posted - 2008.08.29 21:17:00 - [86] Originally by: mahj its not intended game play, live with it or gtfo. and if you need someone to greif go kick the dog/cat or wife if your a real p.o.s. I personally think its funny that CCP has always said greifers are liable to be kicked out(acount canceled). Now that greifers are finding all kinds of easy ways to be a bully, there mad that CCP isn't excerscizing its givin right to loose your account. I think greifers should cry more, and make CCP enforce the rules. If someone wants to PVP they SHOULD HAVE TO go to lowsec or nullsec(except for warring targets, there should be a 24 hour wait on new members in corp until your allowed to participate in wars)... I know the game is sandbox, but thats like saying hey the world is a big sandbox and the cops shouldnt get mad when I shoot my m16 in the downtown district. Comeon boys, I know most of you were picked on in grade school and feel like EVE is your Egos battleground but please grow up.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.08.29 21:32:00 - [87] Originally by: Ambrosious Martin I personally think its funny that CCP has always said greifers are liable to be kicked out(acount canceled). Show me proof. Originally by: Ambrosious Martin If someone wants to PVP they SHOULD HAVE TO go to lowsec or nullsec. No. Originally by: Ambrosious Martin Come on boys, I know most of you were picked on in grade school and feel like EVE is your Egos battleground but please grow up. Why do I sense that this is your past, and not ours? We're Recruiting!
Nexus Kinnon A Few Good Men.	Posted - 2008.08.29 21:34:00 - [88] Originally by: Ambrosious Martin If someone wants to PVP they SHOULD HAVE TO go to lowsec or nullsec Why?
Nexa Necis The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.08.29 22:24:00 - [89] This has nothing to do really with going to low/null sec to satisfy your PvP cravings. If you pull this "exploit" in low sec, you get sentry guns involved. The only non-factor sort of is null sec. Keep in mind lots of low/null sec corps/alliances have use for Empire as well. So war decs will be needed to get to the high sec targets and stop logistics flows and such. Granted plenty of wars have nothing to do with that, but you have to look at both sides of the issue. I do enjoy the fact that every time CCP makes a change that affects the bad guys, the good guys laugh and hoot and holler, "ROFL PIRATE TEARS!!! MOAR MOAR!!!". Then when there's a change that affects them, they start massive posts and petitions complaining about it, and no bad guys are allowed to weigh in on the subject. I think the last boost to the bad guys was introducing HICS. Everything else sides more with the non-combatant types. Oh and maybe fixing the logoffski in bubbles. WTZ, no lofty, no sneak attack corp apps, free reign to create bogus corps to avoid wars for 6mil, 3 war limit on outgoing decs, wreck property changes and so on. I have no problem with CCP claiming this is an exploit. It's a premeditated action to introduce a negative effect on an opponent. By the same token, they need to make corp jumping to bogus corps an exploit too. It's a premeditated action that also has a negative effect on their opponents. Legitimate jumping is a non-issue and the difference between the two is very obvious. If you want to get an idea of how the "good guys" abuse the instant corp apply/quit to their benefit and to the detriment of their opponents, CLICK HERE!
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.08.29 22:26:00 - [90] Originally by: Nexa Necis If you want to get an idea of how the "good guys" abuse the instant corp apply/quit to their benefit and to the detriment of their opponents, CLICK HERE! I read your entire post, but this needs to be highlighted. That, is entirely ridiculous, and I hope it costs that Player his account. We're Recruiting!
Mephik Caldari Rogue-Assault-Traders	Posted - 2008.08.29 22:39:00 - [91] At this point in the nerf/'sploit game the Corp. hop tactic needs to also be listed as an exploit. I don't really understand how one can be labeled as such but not the other. Of all the things I have disagreed with this one has actually elicited a "whine" post from me. And I am a carebear ffs! Improper use of Corporation mechanics to either avoid or engage PvP Really not that tough of a thought process tbh. And for dramatic effect - And I am a carebear ffs!!!
Mika Meroko Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc	Posted - 2008.08.29 23:36:00 - [92] Edited by: Mika Meroko on 29/08/2008 23:40:27 The issue is: instant joining an warring corp and gank someone then to leave it leaves NO RETALIATION for the ganked... is cowardly and profitable.... which is why CCP nerfed it... corp hopping to run away is not the same in that... hes not shooting you... he has no gain from it... XD is just cowardly/doesnt want to fight.... and yeah, CCP is okay with that... as long as you dont shoot people and just run, CCP doesnt care.. if you shoot people and remove the possiblity of retaliation. than CCP is not happy... XD you are profiting at NO risk to yourself... come on, risk vs reward ppl XD ... but yeah, choice.. think about choice when thinking about CCP's decision... the warring gank and leave doesnt allow the ganked a choice to fight back while taking it from the ganker... (inflicting damage without risking being shot at..) vs the leaving corp thing... well, the guy just doesnt want to play with you XD.. (no real harm done to anybody... ) Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
Grarr Dexx Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.08.30 00:10:00 - [93] You know, just join the corp that's wardeccing the mission running *gots, and STAY THERE. If you're such a y *got to run away after you've ganked a CNR instead of staying and fighting, you deserve getting banned.
Mephik Caldari Rogue-Assault-Traders	Posted - 2008.08.30 00:13:00 - [94] I totally understand the "choice" piece and appreciate where it is used in, my opinion, correct context... ie Take a mission specific item - exploit Offer that item back for a price - YARRR! What I and others like me are having a hard time with is how they differentiated the two seemingly unintended uses of Corp. mechanics. Also, to say the corp hopper isn't gaining anything is ridiculous: They gain the piece of mind that ships/assets that were otherwise at high risk are no longer at that level of risk. They gain no interruptions in normal game play. They gain not having to pay / lose their way out of the dec.
Nexa Necis The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.08.30 00:31:00 - [95] Originally by: Mika Meroko Edited by: Mika Meroko on 29/08/2008 23:40:27 The issue is: instant joining an warring corp and gank someone then to leave it leaves NO RETALIATION for the ganked... Uh, yes he does, he has an active war and he can kill, or try to kill anyone of the people who ganked him. He absolutely has the ability to retaliate. Originally by: Mika Meroko is cowardly and profitable.... which is why CCP nerfed it... So is corp jumping. It's cowardly and the corp profits because they can keep mining and mission running unimpeded while the other corp pays ISK to dec fake corps. Originally by: Mika Meroko corp hopping to run away is not the same in that... hes not shooting you... he has no gain from it... XD Once again, wrong as I said above. He gains the ability to avoid the war dec completely. Originally by: Mika Meroko is just cowardly/doesnt want to fight.... and yeah, CCP is okay with that... as long as you dont shoot people and just run, CCP doesnt care.. Again, read the posts, no one is complaining about legitimate corp jumping. They're saying that corp jumping to fake corps made for the sake of jumping into to avoid war is the issue. Originally by: Mika Meroko if you shoot people and remove the possiblity of retaliation. than CCP is not happy... XD The corp jumpers have this option. I have had plenty of war targets try to kill my corp, fail then jump non-stop. So they got their shot at pew pew and left when the heat was too much. Again, I don't care if they jumped to a legitimate corp. When they log out, make a trial account with 3 characters who have corp management to level 5, spend a few mil to create corps and then hop to them instantly once a war dec email goes out, then we have an issue. Originally by: Mika Meroko you are profiting at NO risk to yourself... Not true. You run the risk of dying or getting labled as someone who uses cheap tactics to score kills. It's not always about profit either. If you were well versed in the tactics some people use to avoid wars, you might understand why some people pull this tactic. Originally by: Mika Meroko come on, risk vs reward ppl XD ... So the people corp jumping get all the rewards then. They get the ability to sit in corps and get the benefits of corp life, along with having an instant out from risk(war) for the measly sum of 6-8mil. Meanwhile the warring corp is out 18-????? million per week to chase them while the other corp maxes out spending 8mil to avoid all wars in a corp vs corp situation. Originally by: Mika Meroko but yeah, choice.. think about choice when thinking about CCP's decision... Seems you're thinking a bit one-sidedly though. Originally by: Mika Meroko the warring gank and leave doesnt allow the ganked a choice to fight back while taking it from the ganker... I don't think people are quitting the corp after they gank a person. CCP is unhappy because people join which makes them a war target and able to shoot someone who is unaware of the change due to overview and refresh issues. The other one is someone quitting corp or getting booted just as someone is about to fight them resulting in Concordokken. Originally by: Mika Meroko (inflicting damage without risking being shot at..) See above. Originally by: Mika Meroko vs the leaving corp thing... well, the guy just doesnt want to play with you XD.. See above, we're talking bogus corp jumping. Originally by: Mika Meroko (no real harm done to anybody... ) All reward and no risk. Unfair.
Nexus Kinnon A Few Good Men.	Posted - 2008.08.30 01:06:00 - [96] Originally by: Mika Meroko (no real harm done to anybody... ) jesus christ, you're taking the ***, right? You think that being able to avoid PvP in a game based around non-consensual* PvP is no real harm?
Xasz AnTi.	Posted - 2008.08.30 02:29:00 - [97] ...oh, and... Originally by: Nexus Kinnon Originally by: Mika Meroko (no real harm done to anybody... ) jesus christ, you're taking the ***, right? You think that being able to avoid PvP in a game based around non-consensual* PvP is no real harm? This. (I SWAREZ IM NOT UR INTERWEB STALKARZ) --Random Links:-- eve-pirate.com, read and share your Yarr adventures Ransom Boards, get one for your corp
Delric'var	Posted - 2008.08.30 03:25:00 - [98] Originally by: Pteranodon I respect your opinions. It is a pity you dont respect mine. I am saying that there is a place in Eve to cater for every camp. If I want to mine & build my own private empire in peace I should be allowed to. Keep you war mongering in unsafe regions amongst your like mined fellows & all is fine. I'm not saying you cant fight but just do it on your own turf with people who want to fight. No-I've never subscribed to Steam or WOW so that comment is somwhat lame. I did read CCP's small print to some extent but missed the bit that said I could be shafted by somebody with 4 years experience versus my 9 months in the game. and just like in real life... if you want to build your own private empire, i should be allowed to destroy it if im strong enough to. yes, alot of people would be happier if pvp was restricted to certain areas... but that is not eve. eve is a harsh place. even without reading the fine print you should have been able to figure out that its not all flowers and sunshine like other mmo's out there... and as such you should be able to logically connect the dots and figure out that your existence here is going to be harsh and nasty. and here's a quick question for you. suppose, hypothetically, that ccp does prevent empire based corps from being forced to engage in pvp... and they all rejoice and mine their little hearts out and make a small fortune. what happens then when some smart "griefer" decides hes going to screw with you... maybe by some creative economic warfare. should ccp cave in and start limiting what you can do on the market as well? (since pvp is not solely restricted to ship vs ship... there is such as a thing as market pvp)
Delric'var	Posted - 2008.08.30 03:33:00 - [99] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby raises hand Carebear here, I would just like to mention that unlike my more radical collegue I do NOT want Eve 100% in any location. It is what makes it fun, the potential danger. However, I do like CCP's statement of exploit. I have been in dozens of wardecs and at sometime in every one the aggressor has attacked, docked, dropped from corp and left with us not able to shoot at them. THEY declared war on US, then chicken out when they find themselves out-gunned and cornered. In the past this would also result in over-view lag, which kept them flashy red and result in Concord response when we fired (without concord warnings too). This mechanic is being used "In ways not intended" which is CCP's definition of an exploit. It does nothing to make Eve "safer" for CCP to enforce this ruling. Using this tactic also completely nullifies the honored tradition of watching local and paying attention to your surroundings, giving the "target" no warning of agression. Its broken. this guy actually does make a good point. bottom line... ccp needs to move players out of high sec. this whole thing seems like some sort of band-aid patch, rather than a solution to the problem. the problem being that there is almost more pirating/pvping going on in high sec rather than low.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.30 03:59:00 - [100] Originally by: Nexa Necis The corp jumpers have this option. I have had plenty of war targets try to kill my corp, fail then jump non-stop. So they got their shot at pew pew and left when the heat was too much. Again, I don't care if they jumped to a legitimate corp. When they log out, make a trial account with 3 characters who have corp management to level 5, spend a few mil to create corps and then hop to them instantly once a war dec email goes out, then we have an issue. I will agree with you on this. Many wish for there to be NO way to escape a wardec, which I believe is wrong. Decs are supposed to be focused on the corp, not individual and actually targeting one person can be viewed as against the EULA if pursued far enough. However. When you have a "group" of individuals who immediately jump corp and enter another alt corp when decced, then again and again and again they are effectively shedding the wardec on their "corp". It should be viewed as no different than the Immune Empire tactic. When I first started 2 years ago it WAS viewed as an exploit. You could drop from corp to NPC, join another corp, etc but to do it repeatedly was very much frowned on. Individuals dropping and going to other corps is one thing, the whole group (or large portions thereof) moving en mass repeatedly SHOULD be an exploit. ------------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Wrangler Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.30 04:03:00 - [101] Originally by: Delric'var this guy actually does make a good point. bottom line... ccp needs to move players out of high sec. this whole thing seems like some sort of band-aid patch, rather than a solution to the problem. the problem being that there is almost more pirating/pvping going on in high sec rather than low. Yeah, it looks like CCP is trying to "push" the pirates and others into LowSec, which will work about as well as forcing Carebears there. Pretty much no one will be happy with the results. I don't have any clue on what would be an appropriate solution though. Nexa and Ki An would never agree with some of my preferences, nor I with their's. And I don't think that either of our views are necessarily good for the game in general so I can't really support even my own opinion Guess I've been at least a little corrupted from pure Carebear, congrats. ------------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Wrangler Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
Ambrosious Martin Son of Man	Posted - 2008.08.30 07:40:00 - [102] Edited by: Ambrosious Martin on 30/08/2008 07:44:10 Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Ambrosious Martin I personally think its funny that CCP has always said greifers are liable to be kicked out(acount canceled). Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Show me proof. As you must. Originally by: Ambrosious Martin If someone wants to PVP they SHOULD HAVE TO go to lowsec or nullsec. Originally by: Tchell Dahhn No. Good job leaving off the later part of that sentance, you know the one where it says unless there war targets. I've always known Tchell that you were a moron, but a blind moron? Atleast pay attention and learn to respond with thought! Not just, NO. Originally by: Ambrosious Martin Come on boys, I know most of you were picked on in grade school and feel like EVE is your Egos battleground but please grow up. Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Why do I sense that this is your past, and not ours? Becuase by the pure nature of your function in this game, you and your corp mates all keep there heads down and cower to the existance, while doing just as you say in your manifesto, cleaning up the trash of the galaxy! You salvage others wrecks so you don't intentionally flag yourselves as criminals and therefore take the back road and in my opinion the most carebearish approach to a miniscule profession in the vast interconnected space we call EVE. I on the other hand am a loner and a leader in nessacary situations, one who slashes out and cuts out his own existance. I fund all my PVP and fun by way of PVP. I live in lowsec and have lived in 0.0 since my characters creation. Its funny that even tho the internet gives us aninimoty, A persons truest colors still show thru, even into the billions and billions of 0's and 1's. Atleast when someone as respectable as Nexa Nexis makes a post they imply some intellegable thought into there posting.
Atari Sakura Minmatar INTERNET HARBLRAGE	Posted - 2008.08.30 09:11:00 - [103] Edited by: Atari Sakura on 30/08/2008 09:13:01 Originally by: Mephik At this point in the nerf/'sploit game the Corp. hop tactic needs to also be listed as an exploit. I don't really understand how one can be labeled as such but not the other. Words cannot express how much I agree with this. Originally by: Alberico DeSandre Edited by: Alberico DeSandre on 27/08/2008 21:58:31 They are trying to keep the safe zone for noobs SAFE. It should be harder for pirates and more experienced PvPers to kill new players. When a experienced PvPer enters high looking for a fight, they get to choose when the fight happens, the game mechanics should therefore not be in there favor. However... IT SHOULD NEVER, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES BE COMPLETELY SAFE. There should always be a risk when you undock. Also, thought i'd throw this in... suicide ganking is not something that plagues new players, how many noobs get suicide ganked? Think about it. Only someone who has been playing the game for a long time will have something worth suicide ganking, killing a CNR, or Golem, it's probaly got some nice faction loot, and if a 2 month old noob is in a faction fit CNR, then they bought isk, and don't deserve those items anyway. If you are rich enough to get suicide ganked, you have played the game long enough to understand the risks. Next time you won't auto pilot your Industrial with 500 mill worth of stuff, even if it is through high-sec. Adapt or Die, that's what we say right? Edit: Sentence re=write to make it more readable --- This forum is problematic.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.08.30 10:50:00 - [104] Originally by: Ambrosious Martin Becuase by the pure nature of your function in this game, you and your corp mates all keep there heads down and cower to the existance, while doing just as you say in your manifesto, cleaning up the trash of the galaxy! You, Ambrosious, are the trash of the galaxy. You have no place in C&P, and you know it. If we were cowering, we'd all be in NPC Corps, or, like you, trying to make a difference by flapping our gums and not doing what we're doing. Miniscule Profession? Our Corp just grew to 90 Members last night. That's 89 more than you have. Originally by: Ambrosious Martin I on the other hand am a loner and a leader in nessacary situations, one who slashes out and cuts out his own existance. I fund all my PVP and fun by way of PVP. Sure you are. I guess that "loner/leader" malarkey gets old pretty quick, eh? Originally by: Ambrosious Martin Its funny that even tho the internet gives us aninimoty, A persons truest colors still show thru, even into the billions and billions of 0's and 1's. Atleast when someone as respectable as Nexa Nexis makes a post they imply some intellegable thought into there posting. Before you go calling you people out on the merits of intelligible thought in their posts, perhaps you'd like to run your text through a spelling and grammar checker. I don't give a damn if English isn't your mother tongue. Do us all a favour, and either learn the language, fix your spelling, or simply, don't post. (We'd all prefer "Option C".) I've made my point in previous posts. PvP exists, like it or not. You want PvP by Permission? Find another game. We're Recruiting!
Tofus	Posted - 2008.08.30 11:28:00 - [105] Edited by: Tofus on 30/08/2008 11:34:15 Sheez... ...Still up to your old antics, huh Tchell? Spamming the forums with this salvaging 'ninja' crap. Publicity ftw, no? Ninja-miners, Ninja-salvagers...what is Eve turning into? ;p I keep failing to find any references to the famous ancient 'ninja' garbagemen of Japan, though...you know, the ones with the l33t 'ninja' bottomfeeding t3kn33ks. Hmm, maybe they weren't ninjas after all ;p Anyways...faction war is getting boring...maybe I should get back to hunting some ninjas in high-sec with my pals! You have 90 members now, i see...should be able to kill a bit more then 500mn worth this time round ;p hmmmm....tempting....
Nexus Kinnon A Few Good Men.	Posted - 2008.08.30 12:35:00 - [106] Tchell... Nice find on that recruitment thread though, made me lol.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.08.30 18:13:00 - [107] Originally by: Tofus ...maybe I should get back to hunting some ninjas in high-sec with my pals! You have 90 members now, i see...should be able to kill a bit more then 500mn worth this time round Zzzzzz... Prophylactic Accommodations again? I think you'd better recalculate your numbers, though. My killboard only shows you killing 195M of ships... ...but, of course! That's what you've always been good at... Lying about how good you are. Anyhow, reply however you want. I'm not entertaining your responses any longer. You bore me. We're Recruiting!
Xasz AnTi.	Posted - 2008.08.31 00:41:00 - [108] xkcd references 4tw. That is all. --Random Links:-- eve-pirate.com, read and share your Yarr adventures Ransom Boards, get one for your corp
Pteranodon	Posted - 2008.09.01 10:47:00 - [109] Where is your highsec pos at? Me and a few friends would like to touch it. We don't have a high sec pos we operate in 0.0 space-so we will see you there.
Alberico DeSandre	Posted - 2008.09.01 23:03:00 - [110] Quote: Wha....? Non consentual PvP is Eve. Eve is non consentual PvP. That established fact has only started to be challenged by WoW migrants over the past year or so. For the sake of all of us Eve-players, please go back from whence you came. You're not wanted here. This isn't realy pushing discussion along but I had to comment. You're pretty much saying that high security space was patched into the game over the past year or so? Utterly hopeless...
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood	Posted - 2008.09.02 00:06:00 - [111] Edited by: Havohej on 02/09/2008 00:09:49 Originally by: Nexa Necis If you want to get an idea of how the "good guys" abuse the instant corp apply/quit to their benefit and to the detriment of their opponents, CLICK HERE! LynnMaster 2 NO PVP corp - That's ****ed. You know, I can understand the response of "we can't tell a real corp from a bogus corp" and how that distinction would make a GM reluctant to act against corp hoppers... However, when the employment history gets THAT long, between the same few corps like the guy in that screenshot, I think it's painfully obvious at that point. If the forum moderators can tell a shitpoasting alt corp on CAOD, then GMs should be able to do the same in the case of corphoppers. Of course, don't ban them the first time they hop, or even the second, but when they get to THIS extreme, don't keep telling people "Oh there's nothing we can do about it, this feature is working as intended!" Sure, the mods can't ban EVERY alt corp on CAOD just like GMs wouldn't be able to act with 100% certainty against EVERY corp hopping *** in the game, but just like the mods get SOME of the CAOD lamers, the GMs could get SOME of the corp hoppers.
Greckor Monmouth THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.09.02 00:16:00 - [112] Originally by: Ambrosious Martin Edited by: Ambrosious Martin on 30/08/2008 07:44:10 Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Ambrosious Martin I personally think its funny that CCP has always said greifers are liable to be kicked out(acount canceled). Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Show me proof. As you must. Originally by: Ambrosious Martin If someone wants to PVP they SHOULD HAVE TO go to lowsec or nullsec. Originally by: Tchell Dahhn No. Good job leaving off the later part of that sentance, you know the one where it says unless there war targets. I've always known Tchell that you were a moron, but a blind moron? Atleast pay attention and learn to respond with thought! Not just, NO. Originally by: Ambrosious Martin Come on boys, I know most of you were picked on in grade school and feel like EVE is your Egos battleground but please grow up. Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Why do I sense that this is your past, and not ours? Becuase by the pure nature of your function in this game, you and your corp mates all keep there heads down and cower to the existance, while doing just as you say in your manifesto, cleaning up the trash of the galaxy! You salvage others wrecks so you don't intentionally flag yourselves as criminals and therefore take the back road and in my opinion the most carebearish approach to a miniscule profession in the vast interconnected space we call EVE. I on the other hand am a loner and a leader in nessacary situations, one who slashes out and cuts out his own existance. I fund all my PVP and fun by way of PVP. I live in lowsec and have lived in 0.0 since my characters creation. Its funny that even tho the internet gives us aninimoty, A persons truest colors still show thru, even into the billions and billions of 0's and 1's. Atleast when someone as respectable as Nexa Nexis makes a post they imply some intellegable thought into there posting. Originally by: griefer explanation in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way I bolded the parts for you. Usually these corps profit from these decs in some way, so your point doesnt work at all.
Tofus	Posted - 2008.09.05 17:33:00 - [113] Edited by: Tofus on 05/09/2008 17:34:09 Originally by: Tchell Dahhn My killboard only shows you killing 195M of ships... ...but, of course! That's what you've always been good at... Lying about how good you are. Anyhow, reply however you want. I'm not entertaining your responses any longer. You bore me. Looks like you forgot the 200m in ransom you paid to get the mercs of your ass ;p Also, your not using the 'official' killboard settings, as my killboard (which used the official eve-dev average prices) has always shown your losses to be a lot higher. I just looooove how you try to spin-doctor yourself out of all the criticism you get. Even if it means accusing other people of lying while 'conveniently' leaving out important facts... You, Tchell, are a true f0rum-hoar! :)
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.09.05 19:13:00 - [114] Originally by: Tofus Hmmm...looks like you forgot the 200m in ransom you paid to get the "mercs" (cough, cough!) of your ass Again, your facts are incorrect. It was 250M, and it was offered by an interested party who was not a Member of our Corp at the time, without my prior knowledge nor consent, but with my complete respect and appreciation. Originally by: Tofus Also, your not using the 'official' killboard settings (or you didn't post all your losses), as the former PAQS killboard (which used the official eve-dev kb average prices, which have proven to be pretty accurate) always showed your losses to be a lot higher. You might just need to update your records, as I've made certain that our KB is completely up-to-date, with fully automatic killmail/lossmail uploads, and I've also went further to make sure I've synchronized the information from no less than three other sources. Originally by: Tofus But, i don't mind that. You amuse me none-the-less; I just looooove how you try to spin-doctor yourself out of all the criticism you get. Even if it means accusing other people of lying while 'conveniently' leaving out important facts...it makes you look vulnerable Spin-doctor, no. I wouldn't say that. I'm sure everyone can use EvE-Search to find out more information about your insinuations, but quite honestly, I don't have the time. Running a successful Corporation takes a lot of my time and effort, and in case you hadn't noticed, we've far surpassed your original estimates of being 'broken' or 'defeated' in the few months that you originally claimed would happen. There have been a lot more threats to us besides your feeble wardecs in the meantime, and many many others who have put up a lot more of a challenge. I'd actually like to thank you for some of that, by the way. Without you hiring some of the Mercs to fight us, I wouldn't have as many respected resources with which to call upon, should we require assistance. (Oh, you didn't know? Tsk, tsk. You should really treat those you deal with, with a little more respect. That's what I always try to do. Never burn a bridge, I always say.) Originally by: Tofus Yeah...you, Tchell, are a true f0rum-hoar! Still don't know how to hotwire the system, eh Tofus? It's "Proud Forum Whore", thank you very much. We're Recruiting!
Ambrosious Martin Son of Man	Posted - 2008.09.06 05:54:00 - [115] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Ambrosious Martin Becuase by the pure nature of your function in this game, you and your corp mates all keep there heads down and cower to the existance, while doing just as you say in your manifesto, cleaning up the trash of the galaxy! Originally by: Tchell Dahhn You, Ambrosious, are the trash of the galaxy. You have no place in C&P, and you know it. If we were cowering, we'd all be in NPC Corps, or, like you, trying to make a difference by flapping our gums and not doing what we're doing. HAHA I find it hilarious that you took real offense to the stab at your own lame ass manifesto.. I have to agree it was good for a few lulz! I have no place in C&P?? please explain to me how your constant posts and rants about your corporation fullfilling its crap role in the galaxy, has anything to do with C&P? Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Miniscule Profession? Our Corp just grew to 90 Members last night. That's 89 more than you have. Please explain to me how there being 90 of you woss pussies makes any difference on you all being the little terds that used to get shoved in their lockers? Just to let you know I have 1 member in my corp becuase while I do consider myself a loner, I refuse to hide behind the aninimoty of a NPC corp, all my actions can still get me war dec'ced. Originally by: Ambrosious Martin I on the other hand am a loner and a leader in nessacary situations, one who slashes out and cuts out his own existance. I fund all my PVP and fun by way of PVP. Originally by: Tchell Dahhn [Sure you are. I guess that "loner/leader" malarkey gets old pretty quick, eh? I guess you answered it for me you unintelligent dunce. I am a leader in certin situations! And im looking to get teamwork out of gangs! I dont think you linking my recruitment thread had quite the impact you were thinking it would have? It never gets old and I would like to point out that if Im the trash of the galaxy then why are so many notable corps replying to my thread? I would have to say that maybe my history speaks for itself more than the shitty notes your getting out there! Originally by: Ambrosious Martin Its funny that even tho the internet gives us aninimoty, A persons truest colors still show thru, even into the billions and billions of 0's and 1's. Atleast when someone as respectable as Nexa Nexis makes a post they imply some intellegable thought into there posting. Before you go calling you people out on the merits of intelligible thought in their posts, perhaps you'd like to run your text through a spelling and grammar checker. I don't give a damn if English isn't your mother tongue. Do us all a favour, and either learn the language, fix your spelling, or simply, don't post. (We'd all prefer "Option C".) Originally by: Tchell Dahhn [I've made my point in previous posts. PvP exists, like it or not. You want PvP by Permission? Find another game. Wow So I guess since I fund all my existance in eve by way of PVP and you go around stealing peoples money in a way that dosnt even get you flagged for engagement I gues maybe then you should go look for another game you stupid hipocritical douchebag of a girlly pimped *****!
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.09.06 10:08:00 - [116] sigh Would anyone be able to train Mr. Martin, here, on how to use the "Quote" feature? I really can't be bothered squinting at his text. You'd think a 'mature' player, such as he, would actually go out and learn how things work. We're Recruiting!
Ishamel 1 Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.09.06 11:07:00 - [117] Originally by: techzer0 I just saw it and was going to start a thread saying the same thing... wtf CCP. It's not a damn exploit to corp hop to avoid dec's, why should it be one to join a corp to suprise a WT? Here's betting that a Dev/GM alt lost a 10bil+ CNR to someone and went all emorage Well tbh the only time corp hopping to avoid a dec was the same would be if you sat about with no roles and when you had wartargets about to attack you, left your corp (which you cant as you need to be in station). In the case of someone leaving a corp, wandering past the war target and then joining corp again 2 systems over then yes, that would be the same and should petitioned if it happens and ccp will have no choice but to make it an exploit too. Its the "insta" part which is the exploit, not the process of leaving/joining corps. I mean if it was really the same then people could leave their corp while you were attacking them and get you all concorded .....
Ambrosious Martin Son of Man	Posted - 2008.09.06 20:01:00 - [118] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn sigh Would anyone be able to train Mr. Martin, here, on how to use the "Quote" feature? I really can't be bothered squinting at his text. You'd think a 'mature' player, such as he, would actually go out and learn how things work. I guess I could prolly spend more of my time in RL learning how to be a proper Forum poster...Since im assuming you mean "Mature" as in geek approved. Im not mature, have no interest any further in programming, which is exactelly what your wanting me to learn. I'm sorry I dont think the brokerage firm wants me wasting my time on that when I can be analyzing the next clients portfolio. And its nice to see that you were finally put into your place.. I was expecting some lame ass reply to my last posting... But seems to me that maybe some of it finally sunk in, and you have decided to learn to watch your alligator mouth cuz one day its gonna get your tadpoll ass in lots o trouble. Oh and about my english, it is my first language, but I see no point in taking the time to make sure all my letters are typed correctely, I find that if you really cared that much about the spelling issue, you may talk to ccp about adding a spell check on here. I could honestely care less about my spelling on the forums.
Zen Guerrilla Minmatar Mindfunk	Posted - 2008.09.06 20:23:00 - [119] Somehow i feel that both ways are exploiting the system, may it be someone instantly joining a corp to surprise someone or the other way round where you constantly hop corps to avoid fights. But the whole war deccing system is borked beyond belief. It's just an easy way to grief and people just keep exploiting that. What else is there to do for a carebear to get the war over with? Fight back? Yeah right. No chance there. The ONLY way is to either log off until the war deccing corp gets bored or pay ridiculous amounts of money to stop the war/hire mercs. And that still can go horribly wrong. There just needs to be a different system for that whole highsec war thing. One that isn't completely in favor of the one starting the war. Personally, i'd probably just hop into a jumpclone, fit a cheap frig or cruiser and give it a try until i'm bored of getting popped. But there simply are people who don't want to pvp. Period. And being abled to force them - as long as you want - just doesn't seem right. Griefing can actually be fun, been there, done that in other games; but to the extent some people do it in Eve is just insane. It's pretty much their own fault that CCP are changing game mechanics in favor of the carebears now. ----------------------------- Not an alt. And proud of it.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.09.06 20:31:00 - [120] Originally by: Ambrosious Martin And its nice to see that you were finally put into your place.. I was expecting some lame ass reply to my last posting... But seems to me that maybe some of it finally sunk in, and you have decided to learn to watch your alligator mouth cuz one day its gonna get your tadpoll ass in lots o trouble. Make no mistake, you did not put anyone in their place. I've just chosen to toss you upon the pile along with all the other wannabe 'Internet Tough Guys', and have decided to ignore any of your posts going forward. You can consider this the last time I plan to put any stock in anything you have to say, and these will be my final words to you. (Feel free to get in the last word - I just know you're going to.) Good day. We're Recruiting!
Recon Three 181st Legion	Posted - 2008.09.07 08:58:00 - [121] wutz goin on in dis here thread lolz __________
Nexa Necis The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.09.08 17:39:00 - [122] Keep in mind you don't need to be docked to leave a corp. If you have no roles and the CEO boots you, you're out. Which can lead to Concordokken. Did a ruling ever come down on Ivy League's war dec exploit? I mean if you're going to say corp jumping to launch sneak attacks or trick people into getting Concorded is illegal, surely making a bunch of alt corps go to war to absorb the dec'd corps to increase the amount your opponents pay in war fees is an exploit. You're using game mechanics in ways they were not intended. You can see that from the link of the guy I posted. It's easy to see it's an exploit when they quit corp 30 seconds after the war email goes out and they're in a new corp instantly. All the corp CEO's are brand new characters with max corp management skills. C'mon CCP, if you're going to make insta-quitting/joining corps an exploit because it gets someone killed, then it has to be an exploit if people are using it to avoid getting killed. If you're going to make alliance-hopping to clear wars off a corp, then making placeholder alt corps and insta-jumping to avoid war should be an exploit. CCP has always said they can't prove why someone left/joined a corp so the corp hopping to avoid war was never a quantifiable exploit. Now mysteriously they're able to tell when people are joining/jumping a corp to get kills. If you can tell they're using it to score kills, you should be able to tell when they're making fake corps to jump to in an effort to avoid dying. Especially nowadays with the new changes to Concord and suicide ganking, it seems like high sec is safe to AFK in again and it's safe to sit in an NPC corp.
My'kel An'jelo Amarr Synthetic Frontiers	Posted - 2008.09.08 18:29:00 - [123] Originally by: Recon Three wutz goin on in dis here thread lolz LMAO - I LOL'd IRL. You're so cutting and ironic!

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