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Pteranodon	Posted - 2008.08.29 13:31:00 - [61] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Pteranodon If I want to mine & build my own private empire in peace I should be allowed to. I believe that this is where you are mistaken. CCP has stated that Highsec is not meant to be "safe", only safer than Lowsec. You are not exempt from being put upon by those who want the same things for themselves. Think about this - what makes your own private empire immune from those who want to claim your space for their own? You say you want to amass a great wealth and fortune, and do it in relative safety? You have that, it's called Empire Space. You say you want to do it, without the risk of anyone taking it from you? I'm sorry, but that's not EvE. .....but it will be in the future....just you wait
Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.29 13:36:00 - [62] Originally by: Pteranodon .....but it will be in the future....just you wait The day Eve becomes what you want it to become is the day it dies.
Temujin Ambaghai	Posted - 2008.08.29 13:38:00 - [63] Eve is at WAR!!! all of eve not just fw, if you're amarr you're friends with caldari and hate minmitards and gallente, etc etc. it is a ROLE PLAYING GAME. if you want to live a peaceful existence i'm sorry, but eve is meant to resemble a real world model with all kinds of people. that means you get your bad apples in your "safe place". sure you get punished for your actions, you lose a ship, i'm all for having some stricter rules on suicide ganking, like make insurance on a ship that suicides in high sec void, so that people aren't just randomly blowing stuff up, but if it's worth it they can still go for it, like any crime there needs to be sacrifice, but if the reward is worth it go for it. but really... making places where you just can't be attacked destroys the entire idea behind eve, which is realism, anything can happen anywhere, just be aware of the consequences. so mister uber carebear that wants to "create his own little empire" please... learn what the game is about or gtfo
Pteranodon	Posted - 2008.08.29 13:44:00 - [64] Originally by: Temujin Ambaghai Eve is at WAR!!! all of eve not just fw, if you're amarr you're friends with caldari and hate minmitards and gallente, etc etc. it is a ROLE PLAYING GAME. if you want to live a peaceful existence i'm sorry, but eve is meant to resemble a real world model with all kinds of people. that means you get your bad apples in your "safe place". sure you get punished for your actions, you lose a ship, i'm all for having some stricter rules on suicide ganking, like make insurance on a ship that suicides in high sec void, so that people aren't just randomly blowing stuff up, but if it's worth it they can still go for it, like any crime there needs to be sacrifice, but if the reward is worth it go for it. but really... making places where you just can't be attacked destroys the entire idea behind eve, which is realism, anything can happen anywhere, just be aware of the consequences. so mister uber carebear that wants to "create his own little empire" please... learn what the game is about or gtfo Good for you
Nexus Kinnon A Few Good Men.	Posted - 2008.08.29 13:52:00 - [65] Pteranodon, I have to echo what an above poster said, the day EVE becomes what you want, is the day it dies.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.08.29 13:58:00 - [66] Originally by: Pteranodon .....but it will be in the future....just you wait If you're going to give blanket statements such as this, I have to ask you for proof. So, to put it bluntly, "put up or shut up." We're Recruiting!
Pteranodon	Posted - 2008.08.29 14:09:00 - [67] Originally by: Nexus Kinnon Pteranodon, I have to echo what an above poster said, the day EVE becomes what you want, is the day it dies. But you said it diplomatically the other guy said it like a t**t
Pteranodon	Posted - 2008.08.29 14:16:00 - [68] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Pteranodon .....but it will be in the future....just you wait If you're going to give blanket statements such as this, I have to ask you for proof. So, to put it bluntly, "put up or shut up." Carebears make up a very big part of Eve & if you ask most of them don't want to have there assets stolen-I know I don't. There voices are being heard & slowly we will see the changes & what is so bad about 2 areas of Eve-It is not as if you have to change anything. If you don't like carebears land don't go there-I don't like PVP much but I'm forced into it. Did you honestly think I wanted to train PVP ships. The reason I'm useless at PVP is that my heart is not in it & to be sucessful at anything you have to have a heart. I don't care if you agree or not but slowly changes are coming & if you don't like it you may be one of those who might wish to do something else.
Pteranodon	Posted - 2008.08.29 14:19:00 - [69] Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette Originally by: Pteranodon .....but it will be in the future....just you wait The day Eve becomes what you want it to become is the day it dies. Not really. People like you will just leave. There will always be an Eve.
Bklyn 1	Posted - 2008.08.29 14:29:00 - [70] Why is it that pirates have become the biggest whiners? What happened? Have I been switched into an alternate universe? Does Spock have a beard now?
Matrix Skye Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.29 14:42:00 - [71] oh come on ccp!!! eve's supposed to be a SANDBOX, remember??!!!! we should be allow to **** and shit on it!!!1!!
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.08.29 15:17:00 - [72] Originally by: Pteranodon Carebears make up a very big part of Eve & if you ask most of them don't want to have there assets stolen-I know I don't. There voices are being heard & slowly we will see the changes & what is so bad about 2 areas of Eve I'll tell you, that while Carebears do make up a large part of EvE, the ones that share your opinion of 'perfectly safe' space are in the minority. Sure, you can claim that you have the majority, but so can I. You're not showing any proof, so why should I? Originally by: Pteranodon It is not as if you have to change anything. If you don't like carebears land don't go there-I don't like PVP much but I'm forced into it. I take offense to that - no player is ever forced into PvP. With any action taken against you, you always have a choice. Don't be naive. Originally by: Pteranodon I don't care if you agree or not but slowly changes are coming & if you don't like it you may be one of those who might wish to do something else. Let's agree to disagree, but I have a question. Let's say changes are not coming. Let's say EvE never changes into the world you see. What then? Will your needs change? Will you wish to do something else?
Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.29 15:34:00 - [73] Originally by: Pteranodon Originally by: Nexus Kinnon Pteranodon, I have to echo what an above poster said, the day EVE becomes what you want, is the day it dies. But you said it diplomatically the other guy said it like a t**t What? I said it exactly the same way, only without the "Pteranodon, I have to echo what an above poster said". Seing things that aren't there, are we?
Smokie McLottapot Caldari Keepers Of The Gate	Posted - 2008.08.29 16:15:00 - [74] Wahhhhh! They took away an exploit and now petty gankers and wanna-be's have to use valid tactics! Wahhhhh!! You guys should get some cheese to go with your whine.
Nexus Kinnon A Few Good Men.	Posted - 2008.08.29 16:17:00 - [75] Edited by: Nexus Kinnon on 29/08/2008 16:19:25 Originally by: Smokie McLottapot Wahhhhh! They took away an exploit and now petty gankers and wanna-be's have to use valid tactics! Wahhhhh!! You guys should get some cheese to go with your whine. you should get some shut up to go with your shut up edit; I also recommend some get the **** out of C+P on the side
Deitre Cibrus You're Doing It Wrong	Posted - 2008.08.29 16:24:00 - [76] the poster above me is terrible ----------- Originally by: Santiago Cortes Please don't derail your own thread. What is this sig missing? Pretty colours? -Conuion Not true! Has plenty -Deitre
Nexus Kinnon A Few Good Men.	Posted - 2008.08.29 16:27:00 - [77] Originally by: Deitre Cibrus the poster above me is terrible
Deitre Cibrus You're Doing It Wrong	Posted - 2008.08.29 16:33:00 - [78] Originally by: Nexus Kinnon the poster above me is terrible ----------- Originally by: Santiago Cortes Please don't derail your own thread. What is this sig missing? Pretty colours? -Conuion Not true! Has plenty -Deitre
Ural Almerhas 13th PATRIOT CORE	Posted - 2008.08.29 16:34:00 - [79] Originally by: Pteranodon I see none consenting PVP as ****-a hostile attack. Let us face facts. You do not have to be a pirate to work out that if a attacks b & b don't like it he has no choice other than to fight & run or loose his precious CNR. War however is different-lots of people did not want to go to war but they did it out of a sense of duty & as you all know it goes on for real even now. I think the choice of how you play needs to be much more clearly defined. I think CCP would be better at putting in a few 100 new systems where carebears can run missions or mine without fear of attack but the missions need to be much harder. If you leave the carebear systems then it is open season. I think a simple way to keep the carebear systems safe is that you can't commit a hostile act toward a fellow player in a pre defined carebear system. I think in time Eve will be heading this way. I was talking to a friend of mine-a Policeman & his view-which could be echoed here is that he has no problem with criminals doing what they do provided that they don't get get innocent people involved in there activities. If 2 pirates want to slug it out that is fine but leave innocent joe out of it. I have no views in either bias. If I go to low sec & get blown up-which happens a lot-I don't whine at my attacker I just shrug my shoulders & move on. Perhaps we need a utopia to keep both camps happy. War in the carbear systems no- as it moves back to a big grey area. Corps at war cant enter the carebear systems & anybody in a carebear system whose corp is at war is not allowed to fight even if flagged as hostile. It is only an idea so flame for all you like but remember we could be getting something like this in nthe future. This has been tried in another game already, its called Ultima Online and u know what it did? Ruined the game, they lost massive amounts of there hardcore player base becus while catering to new players and creating a safe haven for them, those new players just stayed there. Players who had perfected the art of being a thief or a murderer in the game now had no targets, becus the targets all went to the safe version of the game. People who start playing eve should realize immediately the risks of the Eve Universe. Those risks being that an attack can come from anywhere at anytime. I think the problem with eve right now is what was said earlier, there needs to be more of a reward for going to low sec, and less of a reward to staying in high sec. I also agree that if your going to call hopping into a corp to attack a war target an exploit, that leaving one and creating a new corp right away should be one as well. Leaving to an NPC corp, fine cus then you lose the benifits of having a corp, but leaving and starting a new corp is rediculous.
Nexa Necis The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.08.29 18:02:00 - [80] Originally by: Havohej I saw this, too... When they say they won't (not can't, but WON'T) do anything about people corphopping to avoid wars, but then they declare this to be an exploit, it doesn't really add up. Personally, I think it's a lame 'tactic', but that's not the point. An even lamer 'tactic' is creating a bunch of alt corps and flying without roles so you can just hop-hop-hop-hop-hop your way out of ever dying without being suicide ganked at all... especially since they're nerfing suicide ganks now, too. If they keep moving this game in the direction they are (towards being WoW in space), I might just GB2 WoW (not really, I'll probably make a mission alt to sit in highsec and fund my main's griefing activities like everyone else is already doing) - at least then I'd have less lag in large group activities. I definitely agree on this one. So them creating bogus corps to avoid war while making the agressor spend lots of ISK while they spend little to no ISK is fair? It does seem a bit extreme to label the insta corp join/quit a exploit but not the other. Eventually you will have it where there will be no war in high sec. It will all be low sec or null sec I am guessing. Next up will be not being able to shoot corpmates because then the evil pirates will sneak into carebear corps and shoot their mates while missioning, which of course will hurt the carebears feelings and traumatize them beyond belief. I've had corps pull this trick on me. I'd engage and then 5 people who joined seconds ago warp in and try to kill me. I think it's a lame tactic, but a valid one. I would say the corp jump exploit is way more prevalent than this one. I've had this one done 2 or 3 times to me. I've had the corp jumping one done 20+ times easily, as recent as a week ago and that was by people who claim to be PvP'ers with neg sec status and bounties on them. It doesn't make sense to me. You're not allowed to abuse the join/quit mechanic of the corps to aid in killing someone, but you can exploit it to avoid dying. Carebears, here is your cake, enjoy eating it.
Genvu Daikanta Gallente Fade To Black	Posted - 2008.08.29 18:08:00 - [81] Originally by: Marchocias Are the people complaning about this actually serious? i think the people crying are the ones that were using this exploit from the start lame tbh glad its fixed.
Bronson Hughes ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2008.08.29 18:32:00 - [82] Originally by: Havohej Stuff I think Havohej nailed it on the head here. Regardless of how lame you may think either tactic (e.g. corp jumping to avoid a war or to get the drop on a target) is, both are a way of manipulating the WarDec system to your advantage and should be treated equally by CCP. It makes no sense that one is an exploit while the other isn't when they are essentially the exact same thing. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Nexa Necis The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.08.29 19:50:00 - [83] Edited by: Nexa Necis on 29/08/2008 19:51:36 Edited by: Nexa Necis on 29/08/2008 19:51:19 I thought maybe this is a sort of stealth "nerf" that initially appears to solely cater to the "carebear" populace, but in actuallity it's for the rascals who have been stymied by the corp jump exploit. So I thought, "Cool, now when I dec Joeschmo, and he jumps corp instantly, I can petiton because he was trying to fool me into getting Concordokkened. Then when he does it again and again, I can claim that he's again tricking me into shooting and not really jumping to avoid war." Then I came back to reality and realized that the second they ask the person about it, he will claim, "Dude! I hate war! DO NOT WANT!" so they will say it's no exploit, he's just dodging bullets. Again, I don't think anyone in this thread is whining at all. I brought up the corp jumping exploit long ago and CCP said at first it was not an exploit, then they said they were looking into it, but no one has heard anything about it since then and no one has posted about it since then. So it's not whining. It's more like head-scratching wondering how come if the "bad guys" do it, it's an exploit because someone dies from it, but if "Mr PvPhater" does it, it's completely legal. I understand there is a difference in the intent between the tactic of having people join on the sly to surprise their enemy vs. jumping corps to avoid the war. My understanding from my many petitions was that basically, them jumping corp and creating bullshit corps to hide in wasn't a quantifiable element, meaning they cannot tell if the person is running from war or just tired of their current corp. That's even with the case of 2 or 3 man corps who jump 20 times in one month. CCP said, "It's fair, they can do it all day and you're allowed to dec every single corp they jump to." Now all of a sudden it's a quantifiable element because it's being used to kill people? Wouldn't this be sort of similar to a log-in trap? I mean you undock, you see a war target, he's in his BS, you're in your own BS, you engage him and a few seconds later, 10 people log in and warp into the fight and you're dead. You had no idea, you had no time to prepare and no way of preventing it. Exploit? Edited for grammar purposes.
Dizeezer Velar Caldari League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees	Posted - 2008.08.29 20:42:00 - [84] Originally by: Pteranodon Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Pteranodon .....but it will be in the future....just you wait If you're going to give blanket statements such as this, I have to ask you for proof. So, to put it bluntly, "put up or shut up." Carebears make up a very big part of Eve & if you ask most of them don't want to have there assets stolen-I know I don't. There voices are being heard & slowly we will see the changes & what is so bad about 2 areas of Eve-It is not as if you have to change anything. If you don't like carebears land don't go there-I don't like PVP much but I'm forced into it. Did you honestly think I wanted to train PVP ships. The reason I'm useless at PVP is that my heart is not in it & to be sucessful at anything you have to have a heart. I don't care if you agree or not but slowly changes are coming & if you don't like it you may be one of those who might wish to do something else. Where is your highsec pos at? Me and a few friends would like to touch it. [/url]
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.29 20:43:00 - [85] raises hand Carebear here, I would just like to mention that unlike my more radical collegue I do NOT want Eve 100% in any location. It is what makes it fun, the potential danger. However, I do like CCP's statement of exploit. I have been in dozens of wardecs and at sometime in every one the aggressor has attacked, docked, dropped from corp and left with us not able to shoot at them. THEY declared war on US, then chicken out when they find themselves out-gunned and cornered. In the past this would also result in over-view lag, which kept them flashy red and result in Concord response when we fired (without concord warnings too). This mechanic is being used "In ways not intended" which is CCP's definition of an exploit. It does nothing to make Eve "safer" for CCP to enforce this ruling. Using this tactic also completely nullifies the honored tradition of watching local and paying attention to your surroundings, giving the "target" no warning of agression. Its broken. ------------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Wrangler Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
Ambrosious Martin Son of Man	Posted - 2008.08.29 21:17:00 - [86] Originally by: mahj its not intended game play, live with it or gtfo. and if you need someone to greif go kick the dog/cat or wife if your a real p.o.s. I personally think its funny that CCP has always said greifers are liable to be kicked out(acount canceled). Now that greifers are finding all kinds of easy ways to be a bully, there mad that CCP isn't excerscizing its givin right to loose your account. I think greifers should cry more, and make CCP enforce the rules. If someone wants to PVP they SHOULD HAVE TO go to lowsec or nullsec(except for warring targets, there should be a 24 hour wait on new members in corp until your allowed to participate in wars)... I know the game is sandbox, but thats like saying hey the world is a big sandbox and the cops shouldnt get mad when I shoot my m16 in the downtown district. Comeon boys, I know most of you were picked on in grade school and feel like EVE is your Egos battleground but please grow up.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.08.29 21:32:00 - [87] Originally by: Ambrosious Martin I personally think its funny that CCP has always said greifers are liable to be kicked out(acount canceled). Show me proof. Originally by: Ambrosious Martin If someone wants to PVP they SHOULD HAVE TO go to lowsec or nullsec. No. Originally by: Ambrosious Martin Come on boys, I know most of you were picked on in grade school and feel like EVE is your Egos battleground but please grow up. Why do I sense that this is your past, and not ours? We're Recruiting!
Nexus Kinnon A Few Good Men.	Posted - 2008.08.29 21:34:00 - [88] Originally by: Ambrosious Martin If someone wants to PVP they SHOULD HAVE TO go to lowsec or nullsec Why?
Nexa Necis The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.08.29 22:24:00 - [89] This has nothing to do really with going to low/null sec to satisfy your PvP cravings. If you pull this "exploit" in low sec, you get sentry guns involved. The only non-factor sort of is null sec. Keep in mind lots of low/null sec corps/alliances have use for Empire as well. So war decs will be needed to get to the high sec targets and stop logistics flows and such. Granted plenty of wars have nothing to do with that, but you have to look at both sides of the issue. I do enjoy the fact that every time CCP makes a change that affects the bad guys, the good guys laugh and hoot and holler, "ROFL PIRATE TEARS!!! MOAR MOAR!!!". Then when there's a change that affects them, they start massive posts and petitions complaining about it, and no bad guys are allowed to weigh in on the subject. I think the last boost to the bad guys was introducing HICS. Everything else sides more with the non-combatant types. Oh and maybe fixing the logoffski in bubbles. WTZ, no lofty, no sneak attack corp apps, free reign to create bogus corps to avoid wars for 6mil, 3 war limit on outgoing decs, wreck property changes and so on. I have no problem with CCP claiming this is an exploit. It's a premeditated action to introduce a negative effect on an opponent. By the same token, they need to make corp jumping to bogus corps an exploit too. It's a premeditated action that also has a negative effect on their opponents. Legitimate jumping is a non-issue and the difference between the two is very obvious. If you want to get an idea of how the "good guys" abuse the instant corp apply/quit to their benefit and to the detriment of their opponents, CLICK HERE!
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.08.29 22:26:00 - [90] Originally by: Nexa Necis If you want to get an idea of how the "good guys" abuse the instant corp apply/quit to their benefit and to the detriment of their opponents, CLICK HERE! I read your entire post, but this needs to be highlighted. That, is entirely ridiculous, and I hope it costs that Player his account. We're Recruiting!

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