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CCP, as a parting gift, let me explain a few things to you.

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Merlunus Caldari Subtle Romance	Posted - 2008.08.27 19:07:00 - [91] Don't go away mad, just go away. MERLUNUS
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.08.27 19:07:00 - [92] OK - does anybody here have any actual facts (as in not conjured out of thin air and prejudice) about what resources go into WOD? I'm sure it's a lot given that it didn't exist yet and it takes much more effort to get it going then to maintain an existing game - even if you still care very much for that 5+ years old game. Also with the money they make from growing number of users CCP can easily finance more employees for both Eve and WOD. Last but not least - Eve is a proven product that works and brings in money. To just milk it for short term profit and bet the house on WOD that might be a big success or total failure would be crazy. Why would they do that? And all that without considering that CCP still loves Eve. --- ISK BUYER = LOOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
Kage Getsu Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.08.27 19:12:00 - [93] Another one bites the dust. Can I have your stuff? _________________________________________________________
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.08.27 19:21:00 - [94] Edited by: Glengrant on 27/08/2008 19:23:17 Quote: Trained for sniper minmatar stuff and artilleries--then alphastrike gets nerfed... Sniping and Minmatar stuff - still work. Quote: Trained for zealots and ganking, then damage mods get nerfed... Zealots still do damage and ganking still works Quote: Trained for missiles for easy PVE, then missiles got balanced with about 1 year of new skills with RMR... Missiles still work. Quote: Trained for the T2 lottery, ended up with "rage thorn rocket bpo" then all that gets nerfed... Got more than I did. :-) Quote: Trained for the old school courier missions (remember those where u hauled 50000m3 in a freighter for 9000LP and a bucket of trade goods like 500000 antibiotics! God, I miss those!) and then they got nerfed... Can't comment - never did those. Quote: Trained shield skills for the nighthawk... got nerfed... Shields, Nighthawk - still works. Quote: Then trained minmatar and every godly speed skill to 5, and now that is getting nerfed... Minmatar will still have fast ships and speed will still be an advantage - just not as insanely overdone as now. Get over it. Quote: Trained for all drones and the mymerdon 5 heavies... got nerfed... Still works - but perhaps not well enough. Grant you this one. Quote: Trained up max nos skills for the NOS domi... got nerfed... NOS, Domi - still work. Quote: Trained up carriers to haul for mining ops... got nerfed... Well - I could have predicted that one. It's a - well- Carrier. Being used as a JF was obviously not its designed purpose. If you're surprised that this gets reigned in - shrug. And it still works as a carrier - right? The role it was actually designed for? And besides the racial carrier skill all your skills still come in handy when flying a JF. So - no really and actual problem after all. Quote: Trained up scanning to be better at pvp scanning people... got nerfed... Scanning still works and still makes a diff for pvp. I don't fault you that you constantly look for the greates advantage - that's natural and cool. It's a given that Eve players will find any design mistake and exploit it to the extreme. Enjoy that while it lasts - but be prepared for the re-balancing when the problem gets too obvious. Everybody whining about nerfs: The <whatever> feature is not gone - just no longer insanely overpowered. Get over it and either make use of the new and just regularly effective feature - or look for the next crack in the design (and don't tell your buddies - as long as only a few people make use of ot and nobody notices - nobody will fix it). --- ISK BUYER = LOOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
Malcanis We are Legend eXceed.	Posted - 2008.08.27 19:59:00 - [95] Candidly, I've stopped giving CCP the benefit of the doubt lately. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Sorum Daemoth Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.27 21:45:00 - [96] Edited by: Sorum Daemoth on 27/08/2008 21:47:23 tbh CCP can do w/e the ** they want with their game, its their's anyways, you either get mad quit, keep playing or like me, get bored and stop playing cause the eve you loved is gone, CCP really doesnt care cause when a change is made a bunch of people who wouldnt play before play while others stop, they dont lose out in the short run, just the long run, ask anybody that has played DAOC what is going on here.... It's just the decision to be hardcore or mainstream, anybody hardcore doesnt give a what others have to say and do it the way it should be done, if CCP was hardcore eve would not be the same right now, but guys the game back then was hardcore, not CCP, they were never, they just want money man they have gotten corrupt and hired idiots to run the show. You just got WTF EXIT ganked!**
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 21:48:00 - [97] Yup, TOA wasn't a smart move. Is was Mythic trying to be WOW, hoping to grab a part of their playerbase... ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
OffBeaT	Posted - 2008.08.27 22:16:00 - [98] Edited by: OffBeaT on 27/08/2008 22:17:48 Edited by: OffBeaT on 27/08/2008 22:16:53 i am proble one of the only players left in eve who dose not use jump clones.. i was dead against it when they came out and called it a pussie wow ploy. i still play the game how i wont even though i dont use off much anymore. he is old school and dont skill up well like the newer accounts i have. i started this guy in 2003 with some time off i still keep him going. he reminds me of the good old days in eve when you could pick a one on fight solo. offbeat reminds me of my solo days. i have decided too start him up again.
Ephyra Chamos	Posted - 2008.08.27 22:40:00 - [99] Originally by: Cygnus Zhada Edited by: Cygnus Zhada on 27/08/2008 16:40:23 @Ephyra Chamos; CCP have been working on a new MMO, they merged together with WhiteWolf to make use of their expertise on that aspect of MMO's. What you know as Ambulation is nothing more than a trial project to test and work out problems with that sort of engine they're going to use for their new project. A lot (if not most) of the core designers have not been working on EVE for a long time, they have moved to the new one (or left, that can happen ofcourse). They have been replaced by new personel, which in itself doesn't have to be a problem ofcourse. But you gotta ask yourself this; Why move the core designers from your old to your new MMO, if you could have hired new designers for that new MMO as well? Some answers could be; - new ones are cheaper because they don't have to do a whole lot and/or aren't as good - we'r riding out the old MMO with a skeleton crew and will be working on something new, YIPPEE!!! Neither option sounds particularly appealing to me. It's been awfully quiet on the DEV part lately, haven't you noticed? I know CCP are/will be producing a wohitewolf mmo, but that doesnt mean they are done with eve. How do you know the core developers have moved? Does it not make sense to use the newer guys on the stable project anyway? Why release the fancy new graphics and FW if their done with Eve? I just find your reasoning a little overly simplistic whineage.
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 22:56:00 - [100] Call me sceptic, tbfh I really don't mind. Here's your link ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Ephyra Chamos	Posted - 2008.08.28 09:31:00 - [101] Originally by: Cygnus Zhada Call me sceptic, tbfh I really don't mind. Here's your link Wow 3 people. The other 290-odd must really be feeling the strain.
Victor Kruger	Posted - 2008.08.28 10:01:00 - [102] Originally by: Cygnus Zhada Yup, TOA wasn't a smart move. Is was Mythic trying to be WOW, hoping to grab a part of their playerbase... DAOC ToA was released in October 2003 and WoW more than one year later, in November 2004. So your logic that this was an attempt to drag players away from WoW is kinda ... wrong ;-) I was playing on Gaheris (PvE) at that time, and it was probably one of the few servers where the players actually enjoyed the content. --------------- Hey, where's my portrait
AeonOfTime Minmatar Syrkos Technologies	Posted - 2008.08.28 10:23:00 - [103] Counter-wall of text incoming. Cygnus, after reading through the whole thread I see your point. I started playing right in time with the Red Moon Rising expansion, so I don't qualify as a veteran, but I have seen the trend you describe. EVE has a reputation of being a hard game, one with a steep learning curve and in which you are never really safe. I can attest to both, and even though I don't really like the PvP side, I have grown to love the game. To be perfectly honest, I don't mind EVE getting a bit more mainstream in the sense that it may become easier to play. Call me a carebear, a wussy or whatever - I like having my little corner of the universe and am perfectly content not kicking anyone's butt apart from some NPCs. There is only one thing that will make me quit EVE: not having fun playing anymore. A game is just that: a means to have some fun, in whatever form that may be. If EVE today is not fun for you anymore, I understand your quitting completely. However, I would never quit because I think EVE is going in the wrong direction, I would wait for it get there. So far all the nerfs, expansions and co have not stripped the game of its core appeal, at least not for me. I am not exactly successful at playing the game (in short, I suck) but I still have fun. From mining to mission running, ratting, probing, manufacturing, running the corp, chatting with buddies, finally having found a space opera world to dwell in... So has EVE really lost all its appeal for you? -- Read the captain's log at eve.aeonoftime.com The solo player's corporation - Syrkos Technologies
Davina Braben	Posted - 2008.08.28 10:28:00 - [104] Originally by: Glengrant OK - does anybody here have any actual facts (as in not conjured out of thin air and prejudice) about what resources go into WOD? I'm sure it's a lot given that it didn't exist yet and it takes much more effort to get it going then to maintain an existing game - even if you still care very much for that 5+ years old game. Also with the money they make from growing number of users CCP can easily finance more employees for both Eve and WOD. Last but not least - Eve is a proven product that works and brings in money. To just milk it for short term profit and bet the house on WOD that might be a big success or total failure would be crazy. Why would they do that? And all that without considering that CCP still loves Eve. CCP just retooled the EVE engine and they're looking to add an entirely new type of gameplay to it for which they're consulting architects and fashion designers - it isn't a quick moneyspinner. Doesn't look like they're giving up on EVE any time soon to me. I can imagine it still going in 2010 with another engine upgrade. And yeah. Cash Cows are called Cash Cows because you can milk them long term. I think the simple reality is that we all spend far too much time playing videogames. Invest enough time for a part time job into a videogame for three, four years and the flaws in that arrangement become painfully obvious.
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.28 10:33:00 - [105] Edited by: Cygnus Zhada on 28/08/2008 10:34:03 @Victor Kruger Yes, WOW was made on the same day it went live, they coded it, tested it and put it out in 1 day! At no point had they been working on it for several years, nor had there been alpha's, beta's or anything odd like that. Also; no other MMO publisher would be stupid enough to learn about their new competitor and to anticipate it's launch, I mean that would just be... stupid? ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.08.28 10:35:00 - [106] I'm still waiting for the "parting" part The topic is a lie! My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Dihania Gallente SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.08.28 10:37:00 - [107] No parting gift for me? [hrhr] Sniggwaffe is recruiting. Visit channel "join sniggwaffe" in game.
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.28 10:39:00 - [108] Originally by: AeonOfTime So has EVE really lost all its appeal for you? Short term? no But I think long term, and thus I refuse to invest time/effort into a game where I feel development is stalling. Mind you, not neccesarily HAS stalled. Again, long term. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.28 10:40:00 - [109] Originally by: Dihania No parting gift for me? My account's still active, and it wouldn't be done with this char anyway. Besides, you wouldn't want this parting gift. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
AeonOfTime Minmatar Syrkos Technologies	Posted - 2008.08.28 10:53:00 - [110] Originally by: Cygnus Zhada Originally by: AeonOfTime So has EVE really lost all its appeal for you? Short term? no But I think long term, and thus I refuse to invest time/effort into a game where I feel development is stalling. Mind you, not neccesarily HAS stalled. Again, long term. So you are resting all this on the possibility that you won't like the game anymore in a few months from now. But you can't be sure, so why even bother? We don't have any info on CCP's internal development plan, so all we can do is assume what's going on, and that won't get us very far. From a developer standpoint, the earlier argument that Ambulation is just a testing ground for the White Wolf MMO is not really a bad thing. It's just sound thinking, developing a system that you will be able to use for several projects. Im my developer world that means both games will benefit from the system, and as a result its further development has more guarantees. If I may make a (lame, traditional) suggestion: take a 1 month break from the game, let your char train something really long and recover some perspective on things. You are getting all worked up, and for what? A bloody game. I mean okay, I cursed some single player games I bought in the past, but then they were not worth investing hours ranting about them - unless that's your idea of fun (I've seen worse) :) -- Read the captain's log at eve.aeonoftime.com The solo player's corporation - Syrkos Technologies
Raindeth FACTION Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.28 12:26:00 - [111] If I can mangle a quote from the very wise Scroobius Pip "Thou shalt not stop liking a (band / game) just because they have become popular..." Reference use only
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.28 12:30:00 - [112] It's just a band
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.08.28 12:31:00 - [113] Originally by: Cygnus Zhada It's just a band And you're just a man Allegedly. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.28 12:32:00 - [114] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: Cygnus Zhada It's just a band And you're just a man Allegedly. You fail to understand the link, if you're going to reply make it worthwhile :)
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.08.28 12:36:00 - [115] Originally by: Cygnus Zhada Originally by: Dihania No parting gift for me? My account's still active, and it wouldn't be done with this char anyway. Besides, you wouldn't want this parting gift. ROTFL So - that's really it? The game at the moment is fine and enjoyable - but you fear it might go wrong long term? :-) Hey man - you feel like you feel and if you rather play something else - your choice entirely. But that's one of the silliest reasons to quit ever. ;-) Re comments about Ambulation: IMHO it's more a matter of "Hey guys - we build this avatar engine anyway for WOD - let's do some extra graphics and have a version for Eve. Would make an impressive patch and STFU all those detractors whoe wine about no avatars in Eve.". If that makes a test case for WOD at the same time - extra bonus. And BTW - from the comments that they try to think of ways to not make everybody run around (and jump up) all day because that would be silly and destroy immersion - props to CCP to care about such details - because I hate that in other MMOs. --- ISK BUYER = LOOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.08.28 12:36:00 - [116] Originally by: Cygnus Zhada You fail to understand the link, if you're going to reply make it worthwhile :) I don't actually, i meant it in context-out-of-main-point. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Raindeth FACTION Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.28 12:43:00 - [117] Originally by: Cygnus Zhada It's just a band Agreed! "Eve? Just a game."
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.28 12:47:00 - [118] @Glengrant Are you sure? In all seriousness, to me it isn't. IF I'm going to waste a large part of my free time and a bit of cash on something I would like it to last a bit, especially when it comes to a long term game like EVE. This is not an FPS which you buy, complete in 5 hours, replay once or twice and try the multiplayer a bit. MMO's by design, and certainly EVE, are long term "investments". NOT thinking about the long term viability and design decisions would be rather short sighted methinks. To me I see CCP (have been) going in a direction that makes me lose my initial (and rather important) attraction to the game. Apart from that I feel that already they have been shifting assets and development time away from EVE, because no matter how much of a fanboy one is, you gotta admit that at some point this will happen. Perhaps I'm being more pessimistic about it than others. But then I am a bit odd; I actually buy vegetables at a grocery, I buy meat from a butcher and I buy my bread from a bakery. Not because it makes me feel better or special, but because I notice the difference and am prepared to put in extra effort and cash to get that, while at the same time supporting the losing battle against the supermarkets. In the end we'll see who's right or wrong.
AeonOfTime Minmatar Syrkos Technologies	Posted - 2008.08.28 13:11:00 - [119] You have obviously already made up your mind about this, as you don't let any arguments shake your tree. At this point, I don't think it's necessary to continue the conversation. As you said yourself so fittingly, Originally by: Cygnus Zhada In the end we'll see who's right or wrong. -- Read the captain's log at eve.aeonoftime.com The solo player's corporation - Syrkos Technologies
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.08.28 13:31:00 - [120] Originally by: Cygnus Zhada @Glengrant Are you sure? In all seriousness, to me it isn't. Right - I get that. Originally by: Cygnus Zhada IF I'm going to waste a large part of my free time and a bit of cash on something I would like it to last a bit, especially when it comes to a long term game like EVE. I'm with you on that one. Originally by: Cygnus Zhada This is not an FPS which you buy, complete in 5 hours, replay once or twice and try the multiplayer a bit. Agreed. Originally by: Cygnus Zhada MMO's by design, and certainly EVE, are long term "investments". NOT thinking about the long term viability and design decisions would be rather short sighted methinks. Still agreeing. :-) Originally by: Cygnus Zhada To me I see CCP (have been) going in a direction that makes me lose my initial (and rather important) attraction to the game. Apart from that I feel that already they have been shifting assets and development time away from EVE, because no matter how much of a fanboy one is, you gotta admit that at some point this will happen. Perhaps I'm being more pessimistic about it than others. And that's where we divert in our assessment. CCP now develops a second game - like so many game companies before them. Concentrating on just one game makes no sense to a company that intends to stay in business long term. As a plus for either game - the extra income stream can help weather bad times. So if WOD is reasonably successfull it can mean a longer lifetime for Eve. 2 Scenarios: 1: 2010: Sony releases "Star Wars 2" - it's a great success and Eves subs crash to 50k - after a few months CCP shuts down. 2: Thanks to diversified income CCP weathers the frenzy about SW 2 until a year later Sony again ruins the SW brand and Eve players come back en masse. Please note that they have many more employees than when they started and that a mature game needs less developers than a new designed one. So - without having inside information about resource allocation - there's per se no reason that WOD actually detracts from Eve development. And let's not forget that there is actual potential for synergy here - would Eve have gotten Ambulation this soon without WOD in the making where the avatar engine is needed anyway and could then be re-used at low cost in eve? Probably not. Not everybody actually cares much about ambulation (me included - might be nice - but I don't need it) - but plenty of Eve players have asked for this from the very beginning and I know somebody who says that this is one of the things that turns him off about Eve. He likes much about Eve, is a hardcore gamer - but misses avatars in Eve. At the end of the day - I have seen no arguments that are convincing that CCP somehow abandons Eve or doesn't care about it anymore or drastically changed direction. And as I said above - it would make 0 sense for them to crash a game for short-term money when the alternative is far from certain to ever being a monetary success. Sure - nothing is forever and Eve will probably vanish one sad day. But at the moment that day is not foreseeable. And the same is true for any other game you might want to play. Originally by: Cygnus Zhada In the end we'll see who's right or wrong. True enough. And thanks for a calm discussion. For somebody who is unsatisfied you are among the very few who can argue without getting into an unreasonable rage. I'll buy you a drink at the 10 year anniversary party of Eve. :-) --- ISK BUYER = LOOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!

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