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CCP, as a parting gift, let me explain a few things to you.

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Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 12:43:00 - [1] Wall of text incoming. Ok, to try and have the new CCP understand a few things I will explain what made it possible for the new CCP to actually have a job in the first place. When EVE was in beta is was a big steaming pile of tripe, the only reason people stuck with it was to relive their Elite (C64 ftw) days or any similar game predating EVE. Apart from that there weren't really many options for PVP MMO's and laz0r pewpew. Apart from that the playerbase felt connected to CCP because they favoured the harsh/different gameplay, meaning that the initial players mostly shared that idea, loved it and kept playing because of it. They stuck with all the bullcrap like bugs, features, more bugs, crappy website/forums/databases, not having an website avatar for 8 months, T20 shit, other CCP shitholes that got their names changed to protect them (hello Lake) and obvious other less than desirable events where CCP's player accounts got caught with their hands in the cookiejar. The long term playerbase stuck with it because they thought long term. Thing is ofcourse that CCP was never really able to actually steer, mend or enhance the behemoth that is the EVE client. Long standing bugs from years back still exist and are now dubbed as features or are just not commented on anymore. Same thing with the forums, they lack the ability to enhance or update. All they're able to do somewhat is to do patchwork; kick the server a few times, do some raindances and hope the **** runs for a bit longer. Recently (and by that I mean more than a year ago) they figured that getting more people is a good thing (which to a point it is ofcourse). The problem is that the playerpool for a PVP centric game like EVE and the type of player that EVE requires/attracts is quite limited, that means that in order to attract more people the game had to change. So far that sounds like a business strategy, and strategies are a good thing. So from a corporate point of view there's no problem. However, the problem comes from the new target audience. They are NOT long term EVE gamers which harbour a lot of love for the old EVE and CCP. They are used to polished, easy to play, low expectation tripe. Also, they have a lot of games to choose from, meaning that all of sudden CCP's target playerbase switches from decent and loyal (thus predictable) to a bunch more but possibly less loyal. Apart from that it requires massive changes (that have been set in motion a long time ago) regarding gameplay, balance and CCP's attitude towards core game design. I'm sure someone somewhere in Iceland made the calculations regarding this but I feel they forgot a few variables. If you think that long term players will stay anyway and the ones that do leave are easily made up for by the new arrivals then you think short term. For now it works but I doubt it will keep on going. TL;DR version; you're doing it wrong, ing off long term players in favour of short term gains is not a sound businessplan. Unless ofcourse CCP IS thinking short term, for a reason; Possibly the earlier mentioned fact that the client is a behemoth they really can't (be arsed to) control anymore. And ofcourse perhaps the new MMO that they hope will do well, removing the need for EVE in the first place. If that is the case then they're doing a good job of suckering in as many players as they possibly can in a short amount of time. Well done. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway**
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.08.27 12:44:00 - [2] Originally by: Cygnus Zhada TL;DR version; you're doing it wrong, ***ing off long term players in favour of short term gains is not a sound businessplan. Luckily, not all think so. I think a majority is happy with the game, even if some things "annoy". My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.*
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 12:48:00 - [3] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: Cygnus Zhada TL;DR version; you're doing it wrong, **ing off long term players in favour of short term gains is not a sound businessplan. Luckily, not all think so. I think a majority is happy with the game, even if some things "annoy". Give it a few months. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway**
GallenteCitizen20080615 Gallente Federation War News	Posted - 2008.08.27 12:50:00 - [4] i am happy with the game as it is now, yes nano are annoying but i can kill them anyway, ues pos shooting is annoying but atm it works, yes the economy is completly in arms as low mineral prices are lower but i build my own things i have took the adapt or be annoyed approach and it working for me alkthough i am sad to see the veldnaught go back to low sec, man the hours i have bumped that thing =( -_/-_/-_/-_/- Please return trays to their upright position. Thanks you for riding the forums
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.08.27 12:50:00 - [5] Im happy with the changes, adapt or die! -------------------------------------- Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
rayvens	Posted - 2008.08.27 13:07:00 - [6] im sorry but what was the point again?
Davina Braben	Posted - 2008.08.27 13:09:00 - [7] You're forgetting that gamers have finite attention spans. Playing the same game for years on end does lose it's charm eventually. You're also assuming that you (or indeed the whiny and vocal portion of these forums) represent a majority of the playerbase. Furthermore you're assuming that new players won't stick around.
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2008.08.27 13:09:00 - [8] THEY NURFFED MY NANONS!!! RAGE!!! "The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of ~~gold~~crap"
Asestorian Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.08.27 13:09:00 - [9] If it weren't for the fact that a little while ago I got myself a year long subscription, I would have let it lapse. At the moment I'm just completely unsure what the hell is going on with CCP and this game. I understand that CCP themselves have changed, and grown, and all that. But I still miss the old CCP, I really do. Right now I'm waiting at least for the nano nerf patch to hit (I don't hate fighting nanos, I hate having to fly them, by the way) and possibly even for something else. Until then, I hear WAR is coming out soon. --- Quote: EVE is unfair by design.
ShardowRhino Caldari Legion 0f The Damned	Posted - 2008.08.27 13:12:00 - [10] Originally by: Cygnus Zhada Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: Cygnus Zhada TL;DR version; you're doing it wrong, ****ing off long term players in favour of short term gains is not a sound businessplan. Luckily, not all think so. I think a majority is happy with the game, even if some things "annoy". Give it a few months. In the mean time can i have your stuff before you pull the 1 act that all emo tease us with. that being cutting yourself and showing us that you do in fact bleed black? Give me your stuff and you can do whatever you want in your emo induced girly rage.
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 13:12:00 - [11] Originally by: Kuolematon THEY NURFFED MY NANONS!!! RAGE!!! Kuole, throughout all your EVE career you have been an insignificant clown, I see nothing has changed. I actually AGREE with the nano changes, and my main is Minni while this char flies (flew) a nanocurse. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.08.27 13:18:00 - [12] Originally by: Cygnus Zhada Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: Cygnus Zhada TL;DR version; you're doing it wrong, **ing off long term players in favour of short term gains is not a sound businessplan. Luckily, not all think so. I think a majority is happy with the game, even if some things "annoy". Give it a few months. I did, back in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 AND 2007 when we had the same...stuff...with different wrapping. Nothing changes, everything passes, but nothing changes. Originally by:** Cygnus Zhada Kuole, throughout all your EVE career you have been an insignificant clown, Hope this don't offend your epeen too much, but Kuolematon is more significant then you 'cause i've actually HEARD of Kuolematon My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 13:21:00 - [13] Edited by: Cygnus Zhada on 27/08/2008 13:21:38 This is an alt on the only account that hasn't run out yet :) Besides, you gotta admit he's a clown. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.08.27 13:23:00 - [14] Well, as you are leaving, can I have your stuff? -------- Ideas for: Mining
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 13:24:00 - [15] Nope, I'm in the process of piling up all my assets onto one char and then ritually destroy it or perhaps just let it rot. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.27 13:27:00 - [16] Eve is always changing. People will always whine. .
Sakura Nihil Stimulus	Posted - 2008.08.27 13:29:00 - [17] Edited by: Sakura Nihil on 27/08/2008 13:29:24 Originally by: Cygnus Zhada TL;DR version; you're doing it wrong, ****ing off long term players in favour of short term gains is not a sound businessplan. Signed. EVE did not achieve its success from casual gaming, and trying to cater the game to these kinds of people has serious consequences on your veteran playerbase that few other MMOs have to deal with. Pull your head out of your ass before its too late. Football? Hell yes.
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.08.27 13:40:00 - [18] OK - wall of text that in a nutshell says "I'm a veteran eve player from way back and I'm angry about - something". I guess it's up to our imagination to guess what the problem might be. But here's the thing - I dont't see it. And I just happen to be one of those long-term guys too. So what did I miss? First off - the idea that in 2003 there was a singular pool of players that like a challenging game is silly. I agree that this is probably a minority thing (well - let's see WoW 10 m - Eve 250 k - ok). But new people grow up and anyway most people simply never heard of Eve in 2003 - hard core player or not - so we can safely assume that the player base can grow some while the game remains hard core. Now, from what I read between the lines your point is that by bowing to the wishes of the lame unwashed masses so as to explode the player base CCP made Eve into teletubby land. Hm- let's see: 0.0 - still there, still no law unless you enforce it yourself High sec - concord still comes after your ship's been wrecked low sec - still a pirate infested mess carebears fear to go to war decs - also still there Payout for insurance is still the same - but now many ships are T2 where payout is a joke compared to market value of ship (and let's not go into t2 mods) - so this part has become harsher actually Is pvp suddenly consensual only - nope There's certainly a lot more ships and stuff and POS and all. But besides stuff and more people all around - what's the big diff to 2003? Did some favourite uber-ganking setup of yours re-balanced? Get over it. Can't take the harshness of having to compete at equal terms? Tough. With all the whining from some forumites here some pvper sound downright carebearish too me - Eve become too harsh for you? :-) That wasn't it` Well- what is the freakin problem then? OK - I kinda miss the 30 jumps of deep deep space beyond the chokepoints before conquerable stations, extra outer jump routes and outposts beyond the chokepoints. But OTOH it was a lot of wasted space that hardly anybody used for anything. Having more people in 0.0 is unavoidable (also people used to whine about hardly anybody living in 0.0) and CCP would have gone broke with the subs from early 2004 (actually almost happened back then). Eve 2003 - can be quite harsh, laggy with many ships (= 20) Eve 2008 - can be quite harsh, laggy with many ships (= 200) The fundamentals did not change at all. Just more stuff. cooler graphics. More platforms. Improved GUI. Better gang/fleet support. Eve voice. So, please, be a bit specific. --- ISK BUYER = LOOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.08.27 13:42:00 - [19] Originally by: Cygnus Zhada Edited by: Cygnus Zhada on 27/08/2008 13:21:38 This is an alt on the only account that hasn't run out yet :) Besides, you gotta admit he's a clown. Me calling anyone a clown would be like a impairor calling a titan a rookieship My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Naomi Halloran Industry Breakthrough	Posted - 2008.08.27 13:49:00 - [20] To the OP: You don't speak for me. Please don't assume you do. Considering that 9/10 of the player base don't come here, I hardly think you speak for a majority of anything. --- "Sarcasm is just another free service I offer. If something I said offends you... good, it was meant to."
Rafilialindal Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.08.27 13:50:00 - [21] I'd just like to say, I can see where the OP is coming from. After putting so much time and effort into something like eve..wouldn't it be strange not to feel angry at ccp? I haven't been in eve long enough to get jaded yet, but I can definetally relate based on other mmos I've been involved in, including one I helped develop from the ground up, (only to see the devs **** all over it..grrr). The only advice I can give you is to take it like it is, a form of entertainment we have very little control over, and one that should only ever be given a fraction of your emotional involvement.
Vincent Gaines Avis de Captura	Posted - 2008.08.27 13:56:00 - [22] Wait, Lake was able to change his name? What is it, I owe him a poddin'
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 14:02:00 - [23] Originally by: Vincent Gaines Wait, Lake was able to change his name? What is it, I owe him a poddin' No, Lake IS the new name. ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Sarin Adler Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.27 14:08:00 - [24] Originally by: Glengrant Smart stuff. This. If you have to whine about anything: whine that the game HASN'T really changed substantially. If I've to agree with soemthing you said is that CCP can't control really the behemonth it has created, probably because the engine a a BIG mess and really badlly programmed (the original devs joined up and tried to create something they had a nice vision for, but probably they are not the best coders in the world) in some ways. That's why the game hasn't really evolved that much and it takes years to add a minor feature (seriouslly check FW, how many lines of code did go there, lol, not much I bet). So yes, the game in essence still pretty much the same, only that with more & bigger fancy ships, better ballance and some stupidilly broken stuff being fixed (amongt them suicide ganks, nanos & wardecs). If I want soemthing is more vision by CCP to really expand the game or overhaul some of its parts: soverignity, industry, insurance (remove it maybe), 'local' & intel in general, place of small gang warfare, capitals, etc. If anything the game got harders for the new players in all aspects: industry & trading competition is fierce, pvp gap is harder to overcome (T2), etc. Maybe it's time to move because the game has lost the flavour it had for you, something natural, give it a long break or leave it forever; you have reached endgame, it allway happens. But seriouslly, people need to stop into conspiracy theories (actually you may have some good points compared to other threads, but you still try to read minds like all these trolls out there) and play more the game like they want. That or STFU and move.
Eben Rochelle Gallente LFC Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.08.27 14:09:00 - [25] Best Nano rage ever! 9/10 would read again.
Vincent Gaines Avis de Captura	Posted - 2008.08.27 14:10:00 - [26] Originally by: Cygnus Zhada No, Lake IS the new name. There's only one Lake I know of, from ISS (Praxis) who stole billions and was a general asshat.
TigerXtrm BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.08.27 14:11:00 - [27] Online games have the contant NEED to be tweaked and adjusted. You may find it entertaining, cracking your ribs every time your super nano boat outruns everyone while you kill those bastards at the same time. People on the other end don't find it that much fun, especially if they run into the same lame tricks over and over again. Especially if hundreds of people are doing it. Gaming is a social event. If you're here because you're not worth anything in real life but get to pwn people like crazy here on EVE then please go away and go kick babies out of windows to get that warm fuzzy feeling of owning someone. If you can't deal with changes in games then you do NOT deserve to play them. You pay monthly to play this game, at least put some bloody effort into it instead of wanting to have everything handed to you on a silver platter. www.BIG-EVE.com \| BIG is Recruiting!
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 14:13:00 - [28] Originally by: TigerXtrm Online games have the contant NEED to be tweaked and adjusted. You may find it entertaining, cracking your ribs every time your super nano boat outruns everyone while you kill those bastards at the same time. People on the other end don't find it that much fun, especially if they run into the same lame tricks over and over again. Especially if hundreds of people are doing it. Gaming is a social event. If you're here because you're not worth anything in real life but get to pwn people like crazy here on EVE then please go away and go kick babies out of windows to get that warm fuzzy feeling of owning someone. If you can't deal with changes in games then you do NOT deserve to play them. You pay monthly to play this game, at least put some bloody effort into it instead of wanting to have everything handed to you on a silver platter. Do you actually have a clue? ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.08.27 14:13:00 - [29] Edited by: Glengrant on 27/08/2008 14:14:04 Originally by: Rafilialindal I'd just like to say, I can see where the OP is coming from. After putting so much time and effort into something like eve..wouldn't it be strange not to feel angry at ccp? Err - why exactly? Or roughly? Or anything guessable hinted at? Just like the OP you fail to explain what it is that annoys you. I'm not saying CCP is a saintly bunch of unfailing angels who never make mistakes. But really - what's the terrible thing that would make it strange not to feel angry at them? I'm not feeling angry yet and I fell I'm missing out on something here. ;-) Please enlighten me. I know that the usual suspects are: * Some nerf or other (aka they plugged a design hole that wasn't supposed to be there from the beginning) * lag (aka I want want want to be in Jita all the time, or our blob and their blob didnt work out so well, even though big blob is now hundreds instead of tens) * didn't implement somebodies pet feature yet * eve too harsh (aka I got ganked) * eve not harsh enough (aka didn't find somebody I could gank right away) * CCP only caters to pvpers * CCP only caters to carebears * CCP screws noobs * CCP screws veterans * fresh out of the oven: Chribbas Veldnaught I don't see a reason to really get angry about any of this. And as many complaints actually contradict each other we really need more specifics. --- ISK BUYER = LOOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
Cygnus Zhada Amarr Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.08.27 14:15:00 - [30] Originally by: Vincent Gaines Originally by: Cygnus Zhada No, Lake IS the new name. There's only one Lake I know of, from ISS (Praxis) who stole billions and was a general asshat. Correct, his previous name was uhm... "Solon" or something like that. Apart from that, don't you find it odd that he went "inactive" for a long time while still being in charge of a corp (whcih had enough able members to not tolerate an inactive leader) in ISS and then suddenly come back after a certain other alliance/character went down in flames? ------------ We didn't want that boot.ini anyway

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