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Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:59:00 - [1] So, after the first day of post-patch testing (and dont say i shouldnt say anything until they tweak shit, they never do, so stop kidding yourself) I've noticed that the High Sec allure compared to that of 0.0 and low sec is significantly out of balance. Where else can you run missions in 100% safety (bar a determined gank squad, and by determined i mean at LEAST 10 Battleships)? Where else can you be guaranteed a secure income every minute of your gaming session? I know you cant do any of that in 0.0. So really, where is the High Sec risk versus Reward? Maybe I'm missing it? Maybe, it's there and I don't see it? Low sec missions offer you higher payout because theyre in less secure space, but really why would I risk life and limb when I can quite literally run a mission in High Security space, with no threat of adverse reaction? Why should alliances be allured to move to 0.0 anymore? Part of the reason is the lucrative money making opportunities, but when theres that much risk involved, your reward seems a pittance. Yes the money to be made off moon minerals is great, but really, does that ever benefit the individual? I cant ever remember making a dime off my corps moon mining. So, CCP, maybe you can tell me, where is the risk in running high sec missions? Response time in a 0.5 system is ~16 seconds. I can only imagine what the response time in a .6 or .7 is. In effect you have plush-covered all of 0.5 and above...Maybe you should just get it over with and make the carebears that much happier and make all the Agents Quality 20. I do hope this gets a response from CCP, you know b/c as far as im concerned, this is an issue far more pressing than Chribba's whine about his veldnaught. Give me some explanation as to why I should be lured into low sec and 0.0. _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Jimmy Duce	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:16:00 - [2] Well... technically this is the recruiting forum so... I'll try to recruit you. We offer T1 ships @ discounts and regularly run missioning ops in the high sec u seem to love so much:D Watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxbg5Eb3wec If you got questions contact me and/or apply:D But seriously, [and yes I am seriously trying to recruit you], over 70% of people like empire and have no desire to move into 0.0 *yet. So might as well play to your fan base. There are industrial players who just love watching their wallet increase with no interest in fighting anything bigger than a cruiser rat. Big deal. Sand box, do you you want in it:D. If you like that frank and other responses feel free to apply:D.
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:18:00 - [3] lol holy hell..mods move this to general...i thought i was in general _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Jimmy Duce	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:22:00 - [4] Darn, and here I thought I found a good recruit the help use bears out:D
Takon Orlani Caldari Chaos Monkeys Monkey Religion	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:44:00 - [5] You have obviously never done 0.0 complexing.
Grarr Dexx Amarr The Cosa Nostra	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:44:00 - [6] Tell me any mission that stands up to a CONSTANT flow of 1.3-1.85mil bs.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:52:00 - [7] Edited by: Ruze on 03/09/2008 15:52:33 How much effort do you put into finding that complex? How much effort is expended by your alliance/corporation/yourself in protecting you while you find and use that complex? How many players does it take to do that complex, and how much preparation and organization is involved in coordinating those players to get to and complete the complex? Not saying the op is right or wrong ... personally don't care. Nor am I saying that hisec missions compare in the slightest to nulsec complexes. If you want to compare anything to hisec missions, compare nulsec missions. Apples to apples, oranges to oranges. What's the profit margin of hisec complexes vs. nulsec complexes? Absolutely nil, besides a rare few COSMOS. Ruze Ashkor'Murkon Security File
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.09.03 16:02:00 - [8] You know, I think he's onto something. It's really going to suck rubbing elbows with those 1000 BoB pilots in Motsu. If you can even get to Motsu, that is. They have lag hax you know.
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.09.03 16:03:00 - [9] Originally by: Takon Orlani You have obviously never done 0.0 complexing. errr because complexes in 0.0 are a dime a dozen, amirite? _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.09.03 16:17:00 - [10] Originally by: Grarr Dexx Tell me any mission that stands up to a CONSTANT flow of 1.3-1.85mil bs. constant flow? Really? Yeah chaning is good, if you find an "unoccupied" system. I agree, but why worry about if a roaming gang is gunna come in and disrupt your isk making, when you can do this care free and risk free in empire space? Despite what CCP says, suiciding was good for the game, now they've taken away all possibilities to do it, and have made empire space literally, 100% secure. _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
rValdez5987 Amarr 32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.	Posted - 2008.09.03 16:21:00 - [11] Um.... sorry but 0.0 is far more profitable... and if your smart and you rat in a pvp fit ship, sometimes you get some pvp action while your ratting as well. and who doesn't like that. I know of a guy that was ratting in a pvp fit raven, and a vagabond came and started shooting him. He scrammed and webbed the vagabond who got way too close thinking he was the usual farmer raven, and killed him quick. Man that guy was mad.
Jimmy Duce	Posted - 2008.09.03 16:23:00 - [12] I'm pretty sure suciding should be an "allowed" part of the game. Not so much rewarded but allowed within the mechanics of the game similar to ninja salvaging and pirating, heck even high sec pirating through aggro bating etc should be "allowed". I haven't been around long enough but making the response time too low to make it impossible to sucide gank... I don't know if anything else was removed and/or made an impossibility this way before. While it may be distasteful every part of Eve should have some risk. Including suciding smartbombing day 1 old players. Sure it sucks to be them but the game itself shouldn't make it impossible to do.
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.09.03 16:52:00 - [13] Originally by: rValdez5987 Um.... sorry but 0.0 is far more profitable... and if your smart and you rat in a pvp fit ship, sometimes you get some pvp action while your ratting as well. and who doesn't like that. I know of a guy that was ratting in a pvp fit raven, and a vagabond came and started shooting him. He scrammed and webbed the vagabond who got way too close thinking he was the usual farmer raven, and killed him quick. Man that guy was mad. Again 0.0 is more profitable, but considering that the Devs base this game on "risk vs reward" can you please, please tell me where the risk in high sec is? _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Elise Randolph Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.09.03 17:51:00 - [14] In high sec, the risk is that NPCs will kill you. In low sec, NPCs AND players can kill you - but you make more. In 0.0, NPCs and MANY players can kill you with no penalty - but you make even more. ---------- I need a good sig, someone make one for me.
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.09.03 17:58:00 - [15] Originally by: Elise Randolph In high sec, the risk is that NPCs will kill you. In low sec, NPCs AND players can kill you - but you make more. In 0.0, NPCs and MANY players can kill you with no penalty - but you make even more. Are you REALLY arguing that NPCs are a threat in high sec? wow, thats pretty epic. _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:00:00 - [16] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Originally by: Elise Randolph In high sec, the risk is that NPCs will kill you. In low sec, NPCs AND players can kill you - but you make more. In 0.0, NPCs and MANY players can kill you with no penalty - but you make even more. Are you REALLY arguing that NPCs are a threat in high sec? wow, thats pretty epic. If they brought the old difficulty back to level 3 and 4 missions, then yes, that risk would exist Originally by: CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
Leviathan9 Gallente Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:00:00 - [17] Originally by: Jimmy Duce Well... technically this is the recruiting forum so... I'll try to recruit you. Yes because EVE General Discussion is a recruiting forum..... ----------------------------
In General Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:04:00 - [18] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog ...i thought i was in general How very dare you! I am In General!
Trebor Notlimah Lone Star EVE Group Veni Vidi Vici	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:05:00 - [19] Anyone who believes this is full of crap. Money in 0.0 is VASTLY greater then empire. <3 Trebor
Elise Randolph Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:06:00 - [20] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Originally by: Elise Randolph In high sec, the risk is that NPCs will kill you. In low sec, NPCs AND players can kill you - but you make more. In 0.0, NPCs and MANY players can kill you with no penalty - but you make even more. Are you REALLY arguing that NPCs are a threat in high sec? wow, thats pretty epic. You asked where the risk was. That's where CCP deems the risk is. I'd be willing to bet that more people die in high sec missions to NPCs than they did to suiciding. ---------- I need a good sig, someone make one for me.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:06:00 - [21] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Again 0.0 is more profitable, but considering that the Devs base this game on "risk vs reward" can you please, please tell me where the risk in high sec is? And where's the risk of posting with an alt? At least have the guts to whine with your main... Because you don't seem to know just how boring high-sec grinding is, because you don't mention 0.0 mining, which is overall the best regular income you can get, because you rabble rabble about risk/reward without taking time spend into account, you're pretty clueless... ------------------------------------------
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:06:00 - [22] Originally by: Leviathan9 Originally by: Jimmy Duce Well... technically this is the recruiting forum so... I'll try to recruit you. Yes because EVE General Discussion is a recruiting forum..... how about reading my post comments before flaming? jackass _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:09:00 - [23] Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Again 0.0 is more profitable, but considering that the Devs base this game on "risk vs reward" can you please, please tell me where the risk in high sec is? And where's the risk of posting with an alt? At least have the guts to whine with your main... Because you don't seem to know just how boring high-sec grinding is, because you don't mention 0.0 mining, which is overall the best regular income you can get, because you rabble rabble about risk/reward without taking time spend into account, you're pretty clueless... have you bothered to read my post? Theres no risk in 0.0 mining, right? NPCing in 0.0 isnt a boring grind, right? I'm specifically asking as to why these carebears in high sec have nothing to worry about. The empire missioning system is a set-it-and-forget-it way of life. If you're dying to rats in High Sec, you're doing it WAY wrong. fake edit: this is my main, you have a problem with that? _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Charney deGeoff Caldari Green Men Incorporated	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:09:00 - [24] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Give me some explanation as to why I should be lured into low sec and 0.0. Because after a couple hours of Empire missioning you'll be thinking watching paint dry is really really interesting and not that boring at all in comparison.
Ryoji Tanakama Caldari Firestar Drive Yards	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:09:00 - [25] You're basing your agrument on some very bad assumptions: 1) Money in high-sec is greater than nullsec, even considering interruptions in nullsec. 2) All that EVE players want to do is fatten their wallets. 3) Nobody needs morphite. 4) Nobody needs moon minerals. 5) Nobody wants to use their 2-billion isk worth of cap-ships + fittings.
Ryoji Tanakama Caldari Firestar Drive Yards	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:12:00 - [26] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Originally by: rValdez5987 Um.... sorry but 0.0 is far more profitable... and if your smart and you rat in a pvp fit ship, sometimes you get some pvp action while your ratting as well. and who doesn't like that. I know of a guy that was ratting in a pvp fit raven, and a vagabond came and started shooting him. He scrammed and webbed the vagabond who got way too close thinking he was the usual farmer raven, and killed him quick. Man that guy was mad. Again 0.0 is more profitable, but considering that the Devs base this game on "risk vs reward" can you please, please tell me where the risk in high sec is? Open up your map window and set star colouration to 'ship losses' or 'pod kills' in the last hour/day. That's where your risk is.
Faife Minmatar Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:15:00 - [27] nobody moon mines anymore, it's all mission running for supercaps. and too many titans in high sec now. it's ridiculous - -
Luh Windan Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:19:00 - [28] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog I do hope this gets a response from CCP, you know b/c as far as im concerned, this is an issue far more pressing than Chribba's whine about his veldnaught. Give me some explanation as to why I should be lured into low sec and 0.0. So your actual issue is what? It is too quiet down your way? not enough recruits for 0.0 alliances? Or is this just a case of "Waah I don't like they way those people over there are playing"? In which case what is your problem? Or where you a suicide ganker? In which case you know what you need to do... "adapt or die". You lot have spent long enough telling everyone else to do that.
Norrin Ellis	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:19:00 - [29] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Give me some explanation as to why I should be lured into low sec and 0.0. You know, for a lot of us, EVE isn't a job. We're not motivated by any incentive other than fun. For some of those folks following the fun doctrine, 0.0 with all its hazards and potential reward is fun. For some of us, running missions in high sec, or just being a station ranger socializing with others, is fun. What CCP is catering to is the fact that some people, quite possibly a majority of the playerbase, don't find PvP in EVE fun. They are finding ways to provide casual gamers some insulation against PvP that is guaranteed to put those players in a position where they really can't defend themselves against aggressors who cherry pick opponents that will lead to easy victories and easy ISK, without taking away anything other than easy ganking from the PvP crowd. If your idea of fun is a fat wallet, then go where you believe the money flows like water. If your idea of fun is shooting other people, there's plenty of fighting to be had out in lowsec and nullsec. If your idea of fun is to simply goof off and peacefully enjoy the company of some other nice folks, feel free to join us carebears in high security space, which is finally exhibiting signs of high security. Follow your fun, friend.
Luh Windan Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:25:00 - [30] Originally by: Norrin Ellis Follow your fun, friend. You know I get the feeling from a lot of the posts I have read recently that there is a very vocal contingent who do not believe Eve to be fun at all. They think it should be hard, they think we should all be suffering. I however am with you - after a long stressful day at work, and once the children are in bed its nice to spend an hour or so blowing stuff up without too much hassle. And when I have time and energy I can head off down to lowsec for some pew pew , fleet action and adrenalin highs.
Elise Randolph Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:25:00 - [31] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Again 0.0 is more profitable, but considering that the Devs base this game on "risk vs reward" can you please, please tell me where the risk in high sec is? And where's the risk of posting with an alt? At least have the guts to whine with your main... Because you don't seem to know just how boring high-sec grinding is, because you don't mention 0.0 mining, which is overall the best regular income you can get, because you rabble rabble about risk/reward without taking time spend into account, you're pretty clueless... have you bothered to read my post? Theres no risk in 0.0 mining, right? NPCing in 0.0 isnt a boring grind, right? I'm specifically asking as to why these carebears in high sec have nothing to worry about. The empire missioning system is a set-it-and-forget-it way of life. If you're dying to rats in High Sec, you're doing it WAY wrong. fake edit: this is my main, you have a problem with that? You're either arguing that people shouldn't be able to make any isk in high sec, or that suiciding is a successful and fair high-sec "risk". Both of these points are equally as ******ed: suiciding is only a deterrent for flying overly-expensive ships into missions, and I guarantee eve would be a giant pile of shit if PVP was absolutely everywhere. ---------- I need a good sig, someone make one for me.
Dzajic Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:38:00 - [32] This is getting annoying. Can you please link exact info in patch notes or in a devblog, where they go over specifics of buffing high sec isk rewards? Since rewards in highsec are the same today they were the day LP stores were introduced. But, tbh, I dont think the entire "serious security" was justified. And that it has in ways gone overboard. Just like with nanonerf, they implemented every single idea ever given about nerfing suicide ganks. It should have been a either/either fix. Anyway. Everyone is trolling about huge new profits in high sec. Has anyone actually tested to see how CONCORD reacts now, and how much ships you now need to suicide gank?
Victor Kruger	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:43:00 - [33] You wannabe PvP'ers sure whine a lot --------------- Hey, where's my portrait
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:52:00 - [34] Originally by: Victor Kruger You wannabe PvP'ers sure whine a lot errr people who suicide, do so to replenish their cash supply to actually PVP...true story _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Norrin Ellis	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:53:00 - [35] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Originally by: Victor Kruger You wannabe PvP'ers sure whine a lot errr people who suicide, do so to replenish their cash supply to actually PVP...true story So, your real complaint is that now you'll have to work for ISK like (almost) everyone else?
Drachtul Tun'Dull	Posted - 2008.09.03 19:08:00 - [36] I can't wait for WoD to be released. This USED to be Word of Darkness in space... every pilot sure of only insecurity, and reliant upon only one's self and one's corp (if you were good at picking friends...). Perhaps that is the reason for all of this, that they want the people who loved the gritty, dark, there-is-no-safety feel of Eve to move on when CCP's next project is ready to go. Because that was, to me, the essence of Eve: No matter what, you were not safe, and those who didn't care for such a game had the option to unsubscribe when they wished to leave. Either you liked the no-holds-barred, grief-or-be-griefed feel or you quit in disgust. Unfortunately, I don't know how many of the people attracted by the futuristic WoD feel will want to return by the time CCP's next project will be ready. They marginalized those who embrace that kind of gameplay already.
Ryoji Tanakama Caldari Firestar Drive Yards	Posted - 2008.09.03 19:24:00 - [37] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Originally by: Victor Kruger You wannabe PvP'ers sure whine a lot errr people who suicide, do so to replenish their cash supply to actually PVP...true story So your no-risk isk-reward is allowed, but their's isn't?
Ryoji Tanakama Caldari Firestar Drive Yards	Posted - 2008.09.03 19:25:00 - [38] Originally by: Faife nobody moon mines anymore, it's all mission running for supercaps. and too many titans in high sec now. it's ridiculous Where do you get your tech 2 stuff from?
Kritinana Minmatar Dark Empire Fleet	Posted - 2008.09.03 19:35:00 - [39] So you're trying to say that the risk vs. reward from highsec to null is out of whack (i guess..?)? Yet as stated in most posts in this thread, including your own, potential reward in null is vastly larger. Yes, missioning in high sec is an easy low risk consistent income. So is mining, so is manufacturing, so is market play, so is exploration, so is ratting even. And, here's the zinger, every one of these things is vastly more profitable in low/null sec for anyone with 1/2 a brain. So yeah.....that looks like a higher risk = higher reward scenario to me. So wtf's your point? Its really quite clear that you're simply attempting a stealth whine on the subject of highsec ganking. I'm sorry, but there's still plenty of ways to to gank ppl's lewtz. Adapt or die.
Great Artista Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.09.03 19:37:00 - [40] Originally by: In General Originally by: Seeing EyeDog ...i thought i was in general How very dare you! I am In General! Whoa... You know what, I bet you waited years and years on these forums JUST to do that. _______ ◕◡◕
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:01:00 - [41] Originally by: Norrin Ellis Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Originally by: Victor Kruger You wannabe PvP'ers sure whine a lot errr people who suicide, do so to replenish their cash supply to actually PVP...true story So, your real complaint is that now you'll have to work for ISK like (almost) everyone else? You dont realize the work and time it took to suicide, do you? Unless you do, you shouldnt open your mouth. _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Atlas Oracle Minmatar Colossus Enterprises	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:19:00 - [42] we really needed a 6,154th thread about this. well done
Pilot Abilene Caldari Serpentine Dream Theory	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:34:00 - [43] Yeah those damn mission runners are really something, I heard they run most lvl 4's in titans with an armada of motherships and carriers as support with dreads to take out the large collidable structures they are so rich now... OP fails to realize that for the most part high sec dwellers are individuals or just small groups of casual players. There is no way their income can ever compare to what organized people in 0.0 can earn. I'd go as far as saying even if you combined the total wealth of what is the greater population of EVE, that being the high sec dwellers and compared it to say, the corporations and alliances of 0.0's total wealth...it would probably still come up short. Would actually be interesting to see the figures. In short what we have here is another whiny gankbear not happy he can't suicide ppl so easily anymore and will have to get more organized, pick a target, get some intel and a good gang of solid pilots...sounds a bit hard for him me thinks. Neeeded a new thread of course...
Norrin Ellis	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:34:00 - [44] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog You dont realize the work and time it took to suicide, do you? Unless you do, you shouldnt open your mouth. I realize exactly how much "work" it takes, which is precisely why I made the comment. Perhaps next time you open your mouth, you'll have a valid rebuttal.
Arric Rohr Gallente Intergalactic Science LLC	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:41:00 - [45] If there is an allure to high sec, then maybe some people will play there. If there is an allure to 0.0, then maybe other people will play there. If you need someone to tell you where to play, maybe you should find a simpler game. If you need to tell people where they should play, maybe you should run for office. Can I tell you something? Mind your own business and let people play the game they are paying to play. AR Where do I get one of those cool signatures?
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:57:00 - [46] Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 03/09/2008 20:58:26 Yep, it's starting already. I had this in my mailbox when I signed in: Dear Player, Pandemic Legion has claimed The Citadel as their sovereign territory, owing to the fact that it is far more valuable now than 0.0 space. You have 72 hours to vacate the region before hostilities begin. Yours Truly, Pandemic Legion Son of a biotch!! I hate it when this happens. Does anyone know of a high-sec region that doesn't have L4 agents? I may need to move there.
Gimpb Sturmgrenadier Inc Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:21:00 - [47] There is good profit to be made in 0.0, certainly more than can be made with Lv 4 missions. Some other high sec opportunities, however, completely blow away 0.0 ratting and Lv4s in isk/effort. Realistically, I don't think the dividing line between high sec and 0.0 is so much in those that want risk vs those that don't. I think the deciding factor is more along the lines of those that want to go out and do verses those that want to sit back and socialize. Those that want to go out and do will figure out the markets, develop trade/manufacturing empires, and aggressively PvP. Those that want to socialize will hang out, do some missions, mine, or maybe get into some FW. Personally, I live in 0.0 but make low-effort money with alts in empire, and I think there are many people like me. If all I wanted was isk I'd say screw it and just live in high sec, that's for sure, so in that sense the OP is spot on.
Locke DieDrake Human Information Virus	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:23:00 - [48] I have yet to figure out why anyone cares what the carebears are doing in empire. Seriously, WTF does it have to do with you? ______________________________________________ Goon FC(08/12/06):"its a trap" "that thing is fully operational"
Joachim Piper	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:30:00 - [49] Another pointless whine thread. Eve is not ment to be played in any sort of fashion other than what the player wants. There is no right or wrong way to play and whilst the OP whines on about high sec missions there are many thousands of players who have never touched level 4 missions and who now reside in low sec or 0.0 having a blast and making billions farming npc and/or plex spawns and thats not counting the looting and salvaging of rare faction mods.... Just play the farking game the way you want to play and stop being such a paranoid control freak...
Locke DieDrake Human Information Virus	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:31:00 - [50] Edited by: Locke DieDrake on 03/09/2008 21:31:42 Originally by: Seeing EyeDog You dont realize the work and time it took to suicide, do you? Unless you do, you shouldnt open your mouth. Here is what I don't realize, why can't you do it anymore? Concord is faster than they used to be... so you'll need a few more ships in on the gank to pull it off. Concord, AFAIK, doesn't just instapop all aggressors when they show up, so it's not like you can't still plan and execute a gank, it just takes more overall firepower being brought in. Whats the big deal? Adapt. EDIT: pyramid quote goodbye ______________________________________________ Goon FC(08/12/06):"its a trap" "that thing is fully operational"
FOl2TY8 Gallente Revolutionary United Front Silex Union	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:43:00 - [51] That's strange... the patch didn't effect my game experience at all. I think I am going to make a thread about it. ---------- The six paths and the four lives....
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.03 23:08:00 - [52] Edited by: Esmenet on 03/09/2008 23:08:50 Originally by: Trebor Notlimah Anyone who believes this is full of crap. Money in 0.0 is VASTLY greater then empire. <3 Trebor Not even close. High sec is in general much more profitable. Low sec and 0.0 is mostly a wow-style battlegrounds. Vote against the nano nerf!
Farrqua Minmatar Turbo Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.03 23:18:00 - [53] Originally by: Pilot Abilene Yeah those damn mission runners are really something, I heard they run most lvl 4's in titans with an armada of motherships and carriers as support with dreads to take out the large collidable structures they are so rich now... OP fails to realize that for the most part high sec dwellers are individuals or just small groups of casual players. There is no way their income can ever compare to what organized people in 0.0 can earn. I'd go as far as saying even if you combined the total wealth of what is the greater population of EVE, that being the high sec dwellers and compared it to say, the corporations and alliances of 0.0's total wealth...it would probably still come up short. Would actually be interesting to see the figures. In short what we have here is another whiny gankbear not happy he can't suicide ppl so easily anymore and will have to get more organized, pick a target, get some intel and a good gang of solid pilots...sounds a bit hard for him me thinks. Neeeded a new thread of course... Uhh dude, you do realize that most 0.0 players have alts in Empire to make money right? You want to elaborate on why that is? I mean if it was that profitable in 0.0 why would you even bother having an alt to JEWBEAR in empire. Seems pretty stupid wouldn't you agree? I mean if you can make that much money way over what you could in empire, well it makes no sense in grinding missions in empire, now does it?
Locke DieDrake Human Information Virus	Posted - 2008.09.03 23:22:00 - [54] Originally by: Farrqua Uhh dude, you do realize that most 0.0 players have alts in Empire to make money right? You want to elaborate on why that is? I mean if it was that profitable in 0.0 why would you even bother having an alt to JEWBEAR in empire. Seems pretty stupid wouldn't you agree? I mean if you can make that much money way over what you could in empire, well it makes no sense in grinding missions in empire, now does it? Do you remember in math class in highschool you asked "where will I ever use this"... Now would have been a good time. Do the math, that is, there are only so many 0.0 systems. And of those, only X percent are highly profitable, of those X, there are x+y*2 players trying to use that space, which decreases each of their overall incomes. Thats why you see 0.0 alliance players with alts in empire. Missions are EASY MONEY, not THE BEST MONEY. They are also completely reliable, where as nothing in 0.0 is. ______________________________________________ Goon FC(08/12/06):"its a trap" "that thing is fully operational"
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.03 23:26:00 - [55] Edited by: Esmenet on 03/09/2008 23:28:38 Originally by: Locke DieDrake Thats why you see 0.0 alliance players with alts in empire. Missions are EASY MONEY, not THE BEST MONEY. They are also completely reliable, where as nothing in 0.0 is. They are in reality THE BEST MONEY, as with the exception of that one time two years ago when you had a -1.0 trusec system with 25 belts completely to yourself you are better off doing missions in high sec. And then we havent even considered the benefit of having easy access to the good markets in high sec, and the cost of defending your space. Vote against the nano nerf!
Farrqua Minmatar Turbo Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.03 23:40:00 - [56] Originally by: Locke DieDrake Originally by: Farrqua Uhh dude, you do realize that most 0.0 players have alts in Empire to make money right? You want to elaborate on why that is? I mean if it was that profitable in 0.0 why would you even bother having an alt to JEWBEAR in empire. Seems pretty stupid wouldn't you agree? I mean if you can make that much money way over what you could in empire, well it makes no sense in grinding missions in empire, now does it? Do you remember in math class in highschool you asked "where will I ever use this"... Now would have been a good time. Do the math, that is, there are only so many 0.0 systems. And of those, only X percent are highly profitable, of those X, there are x+y*2 players trying to use that space, which decreases each of their overall incomes. Thats why you see 0.0 alliance players with alts in empire. Missions are EASY MONEY, not THE BEST MONEY. They are also completely reliable, where as nothing in 0.0 is. Yea I know. If you read to whom I was responding to..you would get the gist of my questions? The Person I was responding to made misinformed statements about 0.0/low sec,and I wanted him to answer them. Math might be your strong point but unfortunately comprehension is not. (Plus Highschool was over 25 years ago.)
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.09.03 23:53:00 - [57] Originally by: Locke DieDrake Originally by: Farrqua Uhh dude, you do realize that most 0.0 players have alts in Empire to make money right? You want to elaborate on why that is? I mean if it was that profitable in 0.0 why would you even bother having an alt to JEWBEAR in empire. Seems pretty stupid wouldn't you agree? I mean if you can make that much money way over what you could in empire, well it makes no sense in grinding missions in empire, now does it? Do you remember in math class in highschool you asked "where will I ever use this"... Now would have been a good time. Do the math, that is, there are only so many 0.0 systems. And of those, only X percent are highly profitable, of those X, there are x+y2 players trying to use that space, which decreases each of their overall incomes. Thats why you see 0.0 alliance players with alts in empire. Missions are EASY MONEY, not THE BEST MONEY. They are also completely reliable, where as nothing in 0.0 is. look at that, you inadvertently took my side of the argument...good boy... _____________________ Originally by:* Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Sickle Steel	Posted - 2008.09.03 23:57:00 - [58] I cant help but notice that people tend to forget that MMOG's are a business first, game second. No money = no game If they can make more money by changing the game a bit then that's what theyre going to do. It's pretty clear that suicide ganking was losing them money, maybe people canceling or maybe just staffers reading and dealing with all the complaints. At any rate it was due to money. A business doesnt just do something for the heck of it. There is almost always a reason and that reason is 99% of the time based on profit. It's just the way it is.
Locke DieDrake Human Information Virus	Posted - 2008.09.04 00:06:00 - [59] Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: Locke DieDrake Thats why you see 0.0 alliance players with alts in empire. Missions are EASY MONEY, not THE BEST MONEY. They are also completely reliable, where as nothing in 0.0 is. They are in reality THE BEST MONEY, as with the exception of that one time two years ago when you had a -1.0 trusec system with 25 belts completely to yourself you are better off doing missions in high sec. That is highly subjective. I've had good days and bad in both 0.0 and in lvl4 missions. I CAN make more money in 0.0, if conditions are right. (which isn't that hard) But I can reliably make money with lvl4s, which, again, 0.0 is not reliable ______________________________________________ Goon FC(08/12/06):"its a trap" "that thing is fully operational"
Locke DieDrake Human Information Virus	Posted - 2008.09.04 00:14:00 - [60] Edited by: Locke DieDrake on 04/09/2008 00:15:26 Originally by: Seeing EyeDog look at that, you inadvertently took my side of the argument...good boy... I wasn't on the other side to begin with, I'm just trying to understand, and offer what insight I have. Also, someday I want to understand why the hell so many people care what is going on in empire. It just don't make any sense to care what the alts and carebears are doing in empire. Do I get a cookie or something? ______________________________________________ Goon FC(08/12/06):"its a trap" "that thing is fully operational"
Locke DieDrake Human Information Virus	Posted - 2008.09.04 00:18:00 - [61] Originally by: Farrqua Yea I know. If you read to whom I was responding to..you would get the gist of my questions? The Person I was responding to made misinformed statements about 0.0/low sec,and I wanted him to answer them. Math might be your strong point but unfortunately comprehension is not. (Plus Highschool was over 25 years ago.) So let me get it straight, you responded to some bull with some more bull and now you're insulting me when I call you on it? I'm pretty sure my comprehension is right on the mark. Take a walk kiddo, come back when you can argue civilly. ______________________________________________ Goon FC(08/12/06):"its a trap" "that thing is fully operational"
Farrqua Minmatar Turbo Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.04 00:25:00 - [62] Originally by: Locke DieDrake Edited by: Locke DieDrake on 04/09/2008 00:15:26 Originally by: Seeing EyeDog look at that, you inadvertently took my side of the argument...good boy... I wasn't on the other side to begin with, I'm just trying to understand, and offer what insight I have. Also, someday I want to understand why the hell so many people care what is going on in empire. It just don't make any sense to care what the alts and carebears are doing in empire. Do I get a cookie or something? No cookie for you. But essentially 0.0/low sec players get bent out of shape because the empire guys want added protection for the same reward. And then some of the empire groups get all bent out of shape because the 0.0 guys seem to be getting all the good stuff and they want it too with out the additional cost of risk or effort. And it boils down to everyone is playing the same game and one group feels the other is getting an advantage which is not shared. Which then you get the ****ing contest between the two groups and then after the countless flame wars, (which has been happening before there was insurance, WTZ etc etc) Everyone forgets what the initial argument was about. And then players that were not apart of the argument at the beginning get caught up in the argument not knowing how, why or when it started. So in essence they care because....v0v
Demench	Posted - 2008.09.04 01:24:00 - [63] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Maybe you should just get it over with and make the carebears that much happier and make all the Agents Quality 20. Yes, please.
Hotice	Posted - 2008.09.04 02:17:00 - [64] Originally by: Sickle Steel I cant help but notice that people tend to forget that MMOG's are a business first, game second. No money = no game If they can make more money by changing the game a bit then that's what theyre going to do. It's pretty clear that suicide ganking was losing them money, maybe people canceling or maybe just staffers reading and dealing with all the complaints. At any rate it was due to money. A business doesnt just do something for the heck of it. There is almost always a reason and that reason is 99% of the time based on profit. It's just the way it is. Or maybe suicide gankers killed a ship of a friend/familiy member of DEV or worse, a ccp main investor in game. Or it just that suicide ganking is happening way too often. In all honesty, suicide ganking is not a pvp since it is just pure killing. There is nothing to fighting against but PK(pure killing) As we all know, pk is bad for business in the long run.
Dharmic Vision Caldari Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.09.04 03:25:00 - [65] Originally by: Hotice Originally by: Sickle Steel I cant help but notice that people tend to forget that MMOG's are a business first, game second. No money = no game If they can make more money by changing the game a bit then that's what theyre going to do. It's pretty clear that suicide ganking was losing them money, maybe people canceling or maybe just staffers reading and dealing with all the complaints. At any rate it was due to money. A business doesnt just do something for the heck of it. There is almost always a reason and that reason is 99% of the time based on profit. It's just the way it is. Or maybe suicide gankers killed a ship of a friend/familiy member of DEV or worse, a ccp main investor in game. Or it just that suicide ganking is happening way too often. In all honesty, suicide ganking is not a pvp since it is just pure killing. There is nothing to fighting against but PK(pure killing) As we all know, pk is bad for business in the long run. Oddly enough, I heard early on in Eve that the devs were some of the more infamous PKers in Ultima Online back in the day, and wanted to create an environment that catered to playstyles considered "griefing" by many other players. Dunno if it is correct or not, but it sounds right.
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.09.04 13:09:00 - [66] Originally by: Sickle Steel I cant help but notice that people tend to forget that MMOG's are a business first, game second. No money = no game If they can make more money by changing the game a bit then that's what theyre going to do. It's pretty clear that suicide ganking was losing them money, maybe people canceling or maybe just staffers reading and dealing with all the complaints. At any rate it was due to money. A business doesnt just do something for the heck of it. There is almost always a reason and that reason is 99% of the time based on profit. It's just the way it is. You can make money without turning the game into WoW in space. WoW was an innovative game when it came out, thats how it made its money. Why does every other game try to be like WoW in order to make its money? The more innovative your ideas are the better off your business model. Choosing to follow a WoW-like business model means you're giving up on your ideas and settling for what everyone else is doing. SoE did it with SWG, and nowCCP is doing it with EvE...They wont be happy until every one of us are playing WoW. _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Haruko Hanza	Posted - 2008.09.04 15:46:00 - [67] Edited by: Haruko Hanza on 04/09/2008 15:46:09 Originally by: Seeing EyeDog So really, where is the High Sec risk versus Reward? Maybe I'm missing it? Maybe, it's there and I don't see it? The fun is the reward angry dude, I work all day in RL, I don't give a cat's ass about efficiency when I dedock... You want a safe game in whitch "profits grow as well as difficulty/risk" ? You should play Tetris :P
Ralara Caldari Shadow Incursion	Posted - 2008.09.04 15:56:00 - [68] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Where else can you be guaranteed a secure income every minute of your gaming session? Right so you mission to make isk to make you mission faster, so you can make more isk... so... you can... mission faster to... make more isk ...? That's really exciting. Empire is not alluring. --
Arctur Ceti	Posted - 2008.09.04 16:02:00 - [69] Seeing EyeDog, You're totally right. Please send the memo out to your alliance to head back to empire. Let me know what space you'll be clearing. I'll make sure to dispose of it properly .
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.09.04 16:08:00 - [70] Originally by: Haruko Hanza Edited by: Haruko Hanza on 04/09/2008 15:46:09 Originally by: Seeing EyeDog So really, where is the High Sec risk versus Reward? Maybe I'm missing it? Maybe, it's there and I don't see it? The fun is the reward angry dude, I work all day in RL, I don't give a cat's ass about efficiency when I dedock... You want a safe game in whitch "profits grow as well as difficulty/risk" ? You should play Tetris :P and where's your risk?
Candice Dice	Posted - 2008.09.04 16:18:00 - [71] @ Seeing EyeDog, you clearly need one as you are blind to the other nine thousand threads on this whole risk vs reward shamm which contain all the arguements and rebuffs any little troll could ever possiably want. Yet you whine and cry like a little baby about other peoples prefered playing style. Adapt of Die.. Re-roll Kitty Online way
Turin Caldari Eternity INC. Project Alice.	Posted - 2008.09.04 16:18:00 - [72] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Originally by: Haruko Hanza Edited by: Haruko Hanza on 04/09/2008 15:46:09 Originally by: Seeing EyeDog So really, where is the High Sec risk versus Reward? Maybe I'm missing it? Maybe, it's there and I don't see it? The fun is the reward angry dude, I work all day in RL, I don't give a cat's ass about efficiency when I dedock... You want a safe game in whitch "profits grow as well as difficulty/risk" ? You should play Tetris :P and where's your risk? Well. based your assesment it seems, missions should pay ZERO. Since you seems to asses that there is ZERO risk to them. Amirite? Eh? And that sure isnt gonna happen. But mostly I just wanted to say this. Hi mom! Look at me! Im posting in another mission whiner thread!
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.09.04 16:24:00 - [73] I still have no clue why you guys always zero in on the mission runners. I make a shitload of money in high-sec, and I only run missions occasionally. Most of the folks making the real money in high-sec aren't doing it running missions. If "risk/reward" really chaps your ass that bad, why aren't you talking about: T2 Manufacturing in High Sec Research in High Sec High Sec Markets Nerf the manufacturing slots so that you can only build T1, sub battleship items. Get rid of high-sec POSes. Make the markets T1 items only, and limit the number of open orders that a player can have in high-sec. Restrict Freighters from High Sec. Why in the hell are the mission runners the big targets? That's not where the money is. This is a bald-faced NERF MY PLAY STYLE post. If you want to nerf high-sec money making DO IT. Make everyone earn their money under the gun, but don't target a single style of play.
Yurname Here	Posted - 2008.09.04 16:32:00 - [74] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog but really why would I risk life and limb when I can quite literally run a mission in High Security space, with no threat of adverse reaction? mmkay. I'll play your silly game. Why?
Copy Cath	Posted - 2008.09.04 16:50:00 - [75] I dunno if this has been said before but here goes. CCP halved the response time of Concord and reduced the number of Concord ships that spawn while increasing their damage and capabilities. If CCP did their math right that means concord is now TWICE as effective at defending hi-sec. For a suicide gank to be effective, one of the following criterias must be met: * Target ganked hold more value than the cost of the ganking. * The gank is a tactical gank to disrupt operations of a privateer/corp/alliance and is considered WORTH the cost. There may be other twisted ways for a gank to be considered successful but those are the major two. After all ganking is not "just" about being badass. With that said, i will make an example: Mr Hi-sec Joe found zydrine on the market for a nice price that he can sell for profit 10 jumps away. He has a freighter to haul plenty of this in one run so he calculates exactly how much isk he has to spend to fill his freighter and what the profit would be. In this example, lets say his pure profit is 5%, so if he has to spend 800 million isk to fill the freighter (It would be more but for the sake of the example here) he would make 40 million isk if he made the trip. Nothing wrong here Mr Hi-sec Joe thinks to himself and takes off. Momnents later, the _ber 1337 Ganker corp notice a freighter undocking with a cargohold full of juicy stuff worth 840 million isk, they evaluate the cost of bringing the freighter down in a suicide gank and come to the conclusion that after all insurance payouts and average module loss etc etc their cost would be at around 400 million isk for the gank. They quickly see that this leads to a 200% profit and set off. However, now after the booster patch, the cost of the gank is give or take double that. so 800 million to do the same gank. That is a profit of 40 million, still worth it? Maybe. The point is, before the concord change the max value one should freight in a freighter run was at less than 500 mil. Now that value will double most likely. This means that the infrastructure of EvE will get a real boost. Thus the markets will become even more active and after all, high sec fules wars in low sec and 0.0 while lowsec and 0.0 fuels highsec in a way. Then all that is outside that loop is the mission runners that basically do nothing in this line. They run missions to make isk to either make more isk or go into low/0.0 to use what they made to fight or make isk there. I agree that the missions are quite daft in hi-sec. Not much risk once you pass a certain level of knowledge and skill. But that has NOTHING to do with the concord buff. If CCP are to do something about the hi-sec no risk vs reward then they should make missions more random, there would always be the chance that a random spawn would happen or the chance that some npc's do something special to kill the mission runner. In short though. The concord change only set the bar higher on WHAT to gank. And it has NOTHING to do with mission runners directly. And there is really no reason to whine about it. Haulers will begin to haul more goods with more value, then they will whine saying that CCP has done nothing to stop ganking.
Copy Cath	Posted - 2008.09.04 16:52:00 - [76] Edited by: Copy Cath on 04/09/2008 16:52:38 Whoops, Copy cath is my alt. This is my main. Otherwise some blowjob will state that i am a chicken for posting with my alt. EDIT: Ehm... Cadde is my main. I hate these stupid forums.
TerrorBaBy Nearly Feared	Posted - 2008.09.04 17:01:00 - [77] Originally by: Takon Orlani You have obviously never done 0.0 complexing. With a response like that, I'd say you haven't either tbfh. _______________ Originally by: Constance Harme It's like willfully getting into a car full of strangers and then being driven out to the woods and being shot.
Locke DieDrake Human Information Virus	Posted - 2008.09.04 17:21:00 - [78] Originally by: Farrqua No cookie for you. But essentially 0.0/low sec players get bent out of shape because the empire guys want added protection for the same reward. And then some of the empire groups get all bent out of shape because the 0.0 guys seem to be getting all the good stuff and they want it too with out the additional cost of risk or effort. And it boils down to everyone is playing the same game and one group feels the other is getting an advantage which is not shared. Which then you get the ****ing contest between the two groups and then after the countless flame wars, (which has been happening before there was insurance, WTZ etc etc) Everyone forgets what the initial argument was about. And then players that were not apart of the argument at the beginning get caught up in the argument not knowing how, why or when it started. So in essence they care because....v0v Damn, I really wanted a cookie. I remember when insurance didn't exist, I remember when you could gank someone and then dodge concord. I remember when missions didn't pay worth crap. I remember when mining scrodite was the only realistic way a noob could make isk. I can't help but wonder if most of the people whining don't remember those days? At the end of the day, you have to pick your own playstyle. You can't pick for anyone else, and they can't pick for you. If you think the empire mission runners have it good, go join them. You'll soon find that most of the claims of income are inflated substantially. (short of using multiple alts) ______________________________________________ Goon FC(08/12/06):"its a trap" "that thing is fully operational"
Naga Elohim Amarr Forsaken Death Squad	Posted - 2008.09.04 17:22:00 - [79] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Where else can you run missions in 100% safety (bar a determined gank squad, and by determined i mean at LEAST 10 Battleships)? Where else can you be guaranteed a secure income every minute of your gaming session? I know you cant do any of that in 0.0. So really, where is the High Sec risk versus Reward? Maybe I'm missing it? Maybe, it's there and I don't see it? . Dude, its called Ratting. It's Called cosmic signatures and anomalies. Battleships that have 1 million isk bounties or higher spawining in asteroid belts is a steady income and to me, far more rewarding than running missions. While both repetative, missions dont spawn officer NPCs that drop Officer and faction loot. Alliances are making money. Mad Money! They have Moons to harvest, Ratting, reprocessing tax. Alliance fees and complexes. They have lots of incentives to go to 0.0. The complexes alone draw in a few billion a week. And if you set up your own POS you could mine your own minerals from moons! I did it and look at me now. You can get rich too! Leave the Mission runners alone. Its high sec for the sole reason is to have high security. So what if they stay in empire. Is it any of your business? Are you paying for thier account? Is it hurting you that they are safe? Besides ive made more ratting and running complexes in 0.0 than running level 4s all day in 0.5 - 0.3 space. Really I think you should learn a bit more about the game before you post. Sounds like every other "nerf level 4 missions" thread. All of it is pure misconception. Besides why do you need to be lured into low sec and 0.0? You want to stay in Empire? Stay? After reading the OP again, I have no clue what his problem is.
Armoured C Gallente The Aztecs Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.09.04 17:46:00 - [80] mission are just easy to do, that what bug people here , 0.0 does have more isk hell i am right there now and making a bundle, but to get down here and work out your ratting or mining style was a little pain for me. building things down here with my allaince is also cheaper, there isnt general lag so the expentancy for loosing you ships because you could activate you modules goes right out the window , moon mining is more corp side for making the corp money , there is vast space ,endless roid, battleships spawns(if you know how to prune properly) there is exploration,hacking sites, some places have good gas harvesting sites (sorry that is a real plus to me since i was a drug gas harvester for hedonistic imperative), the chance for officer spawns and intel channels so you know where the enemy is, proper pvp with bubbles and proper diplomacy over actual space and above all a place where you can actually call your home, something that you alliance actually own and fights for empire has missions , crapppy mining, trading, lag, can baiters, ninja salvagers, lots of neutrals that are all goverened by something called conord where you can only shoot someone if certian rules apply!!! i know which one i picked and i would pick the same again and no where is safe in eve empire is safer but not completely safe didnt you learn anything from deux sigs =) Sig removed, only one graphic per sig please. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.09.04 17:52:00 - [81] This is not about Highsec vs lowsec and 0.0. This is not about missions and such in highsec. This is not about detailed planned killings. This is about some loser having his easy isk and godmode ability in highsec removed. In short..he cries about risk and rewards. But what he wanted was only rewards and no risk. Adapt or die loser! -------------------------------------- Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.09.04 18:27:00 - [82] Quote: T2 Manufacturing in High Sec Research in High Sec High Sec Markets 1 and 3 are more ruthless than combat PVP because they involve the market...I don't know what you mean, research is a means to an end (A t2 BPC) not a profession.
Locke DieDrake Human Information Virus	Posted - 2008.09.04 18:32:00 - [83] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Quote: T2 Manufacturing in High Sec Research in High Sec High Sec Markets 1 and 3 are more ruthless than combat PVP because they involve the market...I don't know what you mean, research is a means to an end (A t2 BPC) not a profession. research profit comes from running a high sec POS research outpost. ______________________________________________ Goon FC(08/12/06):"its a trap" "that thing is fully operational"
Betty Vector	Posted - 2008.09.04 18:40:00 - [84] Where was the risk in running high-sec missions before the patch? No really. Where? I've not been playing for years, but honestly, I've never come across getting ganked, podded, pirated, or threatened to hand over my extrememly meager incomes in high-sec (= or > 0.5 space) pre-patch by anyone. Ever. And IMO that's the way it should be. Until I have a portfolio available to lend something to a low-sec Corp/Alliance or the means to compete in low-sec space on my own (even minimally), then this whole argument is moot. As a newb, I am significantly too unskilled in PvP, have not the skills to compete against non-newbs, and am generally still too unfamiliar with the nuances of EVE mechanics to get by in low-sec space. I imagine once I have an ISK balance that can afford the losses incurred in low-sec, am familiar enough with the mechanics and nuances, am in a Corp/Alliance to watch my back, and have more skills to pilot appropriately and more effectively than I do now: I am just not going to see much of low-sec. High-sec is my home for now. It's warm and fuzzy and relatively safe. Just as it should be. High sec will come later. When I'm ready to make the big bucks and PvP with the rest of them. Of course, if you're a thrill seeker and like the adrenaline rush, the option for younglings to go to low-sec is there and is done by a number of relatively new peeps. But I have a feeling that those young space jockeys are the minority in a give population. Hrm, sounds to me like the bottom-feeders and scavengers are a tad upset?
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer Elitist Cowards	Posted - 2008.09.04 19:27:00 - [85] Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 04/09/2008 19:28:09 Originally by: Seeing EyeDog So, after the first day of post-patch testing (and dont say i shouldnt say anything until they tweak shit, they never do, so stop kidding yourself) I've noticed that the High Sec allure compared to that of 0.0 and low sec is significantly out of balance. Where else can you run missions in 100% safety (bar a determined gank squad, and by determined i mean at LEAST 10 Battleships)? Where else can you be guaranteed a secure income every minute of your gaming session? I know you cant do any of that in 0.0. So really, where is the High Sec risk versus Reward? Maybe I'm missing it? Maybe, it's there and I don't see it? Low sec missions offer you higher payout because theyre in less secure space, but really why would I risk life and limb when I can quite literally run a mission in High Security space, with no threat of adverse reaction? Why should alliances be allured to move to 0.0 anymore? Part of the reason is the lucrative money making opportunities, but when theres that much risk involved, your reward seems a pittance. Yes the money to be made off moon minerals is great, but really, does that ever benefit the individual? I cant ever remember making a dime off my corps moon mining. So, CCP, maybe you can tell me, where is the risk in running high sec missions? Response time in a 0.5 system is ~16 seconds. I can only imagine what the response time in a .6 or .7 is. In effect you have plush-covered all of 0.5 and above...Maybe you should just get it over with and make the carebears that much happier and make all the Agents Quality 20. I do hope this gets a response from CCP, you know b/c as far as im concerned, this is an issue far more pressing than Chribba's whine about his veldnaught. Give me some explanation as to why I should be lured into low sec and 0.0. You're completely ignorant about 00 Moon mining a good moon can bring in a billion a week. Scanning out a 10/10 plex and running it can potentially net a couple billion. 00 ratting, when done properly, can haul in over 30 million an hour (mods, bounties, mins) with a chance of faction and officer spawns worth the tens to hundreds of millions.. Mission runners essentially have a flat, 10mill or so, per hour wage that gets an occasional bump when you cash in all those LP's. So, feel free to farm, I'll stick with my bling. ----------------- Friends Forever
Farrqua Minmatar Turbo Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.04 19:42:00 - [86] Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Moon mining a good moon can bring in a billion a week... Not for the general pop of 0.0. It is mainly for the Alliances. Pilots rarely ever see any of that. Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Scanning out a 10/10 plex and running it can potentially net a couple billion.. Its not for lone pilots. You need a frigging gang. If you compare solo mission pilots which are predominately what you have in empire to a lone pilot trying to get his Jew on in null sec, he can not touch that. We need to compare apples to apples here. Originally by: Haniblecter Teg 00 ratting, when done properly, can haul in over 30 million an hour (mods, bounties, mins) with a chance of faction and officer spawns worth the tens to hundreds of millions... After you spend a while chaining it up yea. Sometimes more, but it applies to a few areas under your alliances control, the resources are not exclusive. (another words you can't kick your own alliance member out of the belts.) Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Mission runners essentially have a flat, 10mill or so, per hour wage that gets an occasional bump when you cash in all those LP's.. If you are only getting 10 mil an hour you are doing it wrong.
Jones Maloy Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.09.05 00:33:00 - [87] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Chribba's whine about his veldnaught. .................................................ignorant....*****.
murder one Gallente Invincible Reason	Posted - 2008.09.05 00:40:00 - [88] Originally by: Somealt Ofmine I still have no clue why you guys always zero in on the mission runners. I make a shitload of money in high-sec, and I only run missions occasionally. Most of the folks making the real money in high-sec aren't doing it running missions. If "risk/reward" really chaps your ass that bad, why aren't you talking about: T2 Manufacturing in High Sec Research in High Sec High Sec Markets Nerf the manufacturing slots so that you can only build T1, sub battleship items. Get rid of high-sec POSes. Make the markets T1 items only, and limit the number of open orders that a player can have in high-sec. Restrict Freighters from High Sec. Why in the hell are the mission runners the big targets? That's not where the money is. This is a bald-faced NERF MY PLAY STYLE post. If you want to nerf high-sec money making DO IT. Make everyone earn their money under the gun, but don't target a single style of play. Dood, who's alt are you? You're making waaay too much sense. <no, this is NOT my alt lol> I think it would be quite interesting to only be able to sell T2 and/or other rare/better items in low sec or 0.0 markets. That would be really cool. Limit all POSes to low sec/0.0, etc. Very excellent points. Dunno about limiting freighters however. Wouldn't they need to be able to travel between high/lowsec areas to be usefull? [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.09.05 14:38:00 - [89] Originally by: Somealt Ofmine T2 Manufacturing in High Sec Research in High Sec High Sec Markets let me address your concerns 1 by 1, to show you how dumb you are. 1) T2 Manufacturing in High sec - Requires a POS, and afaik most people who do this are in player corps with POS's anchored on moons in high sec. Theres plenty of risk there, plus the profit is MARGINAL on t2 manufacturing. That risk v reward is fairly balance, seeing as if someone wants to disrupt this production, all they have to do is declare war, and elminate the POS this is occurring at. 2) Research in High Sec - Unless you feel like waiting 3 weeks just to START a research job in a station, you need a GASP high security pos to get the research done. See (1) for my reason as to why this is balanced. 3) High Sec markets - This is the only one of your three examples which i agree with you on. If you're trading on a trade alt, theres really not much you can do to change the risk vs reward. Likewise with using a freighter to move goods through and around high sec to trade for a profit. So yes, you present a valid point on High Sec trading, but you cant really balance this, as most people trading do so on an alt who never leaves a station. Good enough for you? _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.09.05 14:49:00 - [90] Edited by: Seeing EyeDog on 05/09/2008 14:49:11 Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Moon mining a good moon can bring in a billion a week. when was the last time your corp was selfless enough to cough up their moon mining profits? _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Norrin Ellis	Posted - 2008.09.05 15:49:00 - [91] For some of us, high sec was always more appealing than 0.0, and will always remain so. At this stage in the game, if you don't join an established corp or alliance, you're not going to fare well moving out of empire, as the veteran cliques will ensure that you either pay them for the privilege or crush you out of the game. As I didn't bring hundreds of people to the game when I subscribed, a la Goonswarm, it's unreasonable to think that I can start from nothing and build a viable lowsec/nullsec organization without having to cater to the whims of someone else in some way, shape, or form. I'm sure you'll excuse me if joining someone else's corporation in order to fatten someone else's wallet, while fighting someone else's wars over someone else's grievances doesn't really appeal to me, a typical high sec carebear. Even starting a corp in high sec brings with it the same troubles, as any established group of players with money and friends can simply declare war for any reason, or no reason at all and exterminate any pleasure I may take in playing, as long as they continue to pay CONCORD's fees. At the end of the day, I'm here to relax and enjoy myself, and if there's no means for me to do that without the veterans killing my game experience, I'll meander off to another game, and that won't pay the bills for CCP. When you strip away the alts and the farmers, the rest of the high sec crowd is just trying to be entertained for a while without being hassled by people "just for lulz." Maybe a few of them are actually trying to learn the game well enough and pick up enough capital so they can go out there and play with the rest of you in lowsec, but you'll never know if you grief 'em right out of the game before they get a chance to provide a real challenge. What you guys do out there beyond the eyes of the cops is your business, and I hope you're having a great time of it. I'm always boggled, however, that when CCP tries to ensure the rest of us, who don't enjoy what you enjoy, are also able to have a good time, some folks can't seem to cope with the fact that CCP would prefer to keep subscribers rather than let you shoot fish in a barrel. ...and for those who whine about access to "good" markets in empire, not only do you have the same access - whether it be with alts or otherwise - you could create great markets outside of empire, but you choose to bring all your crap to Jita to sell it to folks who will inflate the price and sell it back to you, or just use it for mission running. The only reason empire markets seem better is because folks outside empire would rather shoot anything that moves instead of building good relationships and trading.
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.05 15:53:00 - [92] If you want to PvP without a lot of hassle then lowsec and 0.0 have a lot of allure. If you want to mission run or belt mine then Empire has a lot of allure. If you want to PvP in Empire you may be allure confused. .
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.09.05 15:53:00 - [93] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog let me address your concerns 1 by 1, to show you how dumb you are. How long have you had making an ass of yourself trained to 5? Quote: 1) T2 Manufacturing in High sec - Requires a POS, and afaik most people who do this are in player corps with POS's anchored on moons in high sec. Theres plenty of risk there, plus the profit is MARGINAL on t2 manufacturing. That risk v reward is fairly balance, seeing as if someone wants to disrupt this production, all they have to do is declare war, and elminate the POS this is occurring at. I have a high-sec POS. I have had it since '06. I research at it like there's no tomorrow. It's never been attacked. One time, I took a break from the game, left it sitting there, and when I came back, it was offline, and still sitting there after two months. I guess you specialize in talking about stuff when you don't know what you're talking about, huh? Quote: 2) Research in High Sec - Unless you feel like waiting 3 weeks just to START a research job in a station, you need a GASP high security pos to get the research done. See (1) for my reason as to why this is balanced. See above, nub. Quote: 3) High Sec markets - This is the only one of your three examples which i agree with you on. If you're trading on a trade alt, theres really not much you can do to change the risk vs reward. Likewise with using a freighter to move goods through and around high sec to trade for a profit. So yes, you present a valid point on High Sec trading, but you cant really balance this, as most people trading do so on an alt who never leaves a station. If you nerf high-sec markets and force them to move to low-sec, 0.0 alliances will actually have to protect their supply lines. Hiding them in NPC corps would no longer do any good. It would change the entire dynamic of low-sec for the better. There'd be lots of pew-pew, but it wouldn't just be pirates preying on the few 'bears who are dumb enough to venture there. Anything else you'd like explained to you?
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.09.05 16:05:00 - [94] Originally by: Drunk Driver If you want to PvP without a lot of hassle then lowsec and 0.0 have a lot of allure. If you want to mission run or belt mine then Empire has a lot of allure. If you want to PvP in Empire you may be allure confused. . another person fails to see the point. High sec missioners risk NOTHING, but gain a constant, secure source of income. _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.09.05 16:09:00 - [95] Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 05/09/2008 16:18:43 Originally by: Norrin Ellis For some of us, high sec was always more appealing than 0.0, and will always remain so. At this stage in the game, if you don't join an established corp or alliance, you're not going to fare well moving out of empire, as the veteran cliques will ensure that you either pay them for the privilege or crush you out of the game. ... Well written post bud. Yeah, any significant move to force people to leave high-sec if they want to progress in any meaningful way will drive many players like you away. There isn't any doubt about it. Some folks just don't like logging on to find a corp-chat full of drama day after day, or to feel like deadbeats because they can't do those 5 hour POS sitting ops, or to find out that everything they've been working for for the last 6 months is gone now because of an argument at the top that resulted in the theft of the entire alliance wallet. My own corp is just me and my girl for that very reason. My only argument is that if they nerf high-sec, they should just go ahead and nerf it. Make it a starter zone. If they don't, and only nerf L4 missions, they'll be hurting new guys like you, but basically letting high SP old timers like me continue to milk it for all its worth, and 0.0 alliances continue to manufacture isk from their moons and such under the cover of NPC corp alt haulers and traders. Everyone right now is assuming that CCP's intent is to make empire safer and retain the status quo. Maybe it isn't. Maybe they'll suprise us, and the other shoe will drop and they will turn it into a starter zone that you really need to leave after a short while if you want to progress in the game.
Norrin Ellis	Posted - 2008.09.05 16:25:00 - [96] Originally by: Somealt Ofmine Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 05/09/2008 16:11:39 Originally by: Norrin Ellis For some of us, high sec was always more appealing than 0.0, and will always remain so. At this stage in the game, if you don't join an established corp or alliance, you're not going to fare well moving out of empire, as the veteran cliques will ensure that you either pay them for the privilege or crush you out of the game. ... Well written post bud. Yeah, any significant move to force people to leave high-sec if they want to progress in any meaningful way will drive many players like you away. There isn't any doubt about it. Some folks just don't like logging on to find a corp-chat full of drama day after day. My own corp is just me and my girl for that very reason. My only argument is that if they nerf high-sec, they should just go ahead and nerf it. Make it a starter zone. If they don't, and only nerf L4 missions, they'll be hurting new guys like you, but basically letting high SP old timers like me continue to milk it for all its worth, and 0.0 alliances continue to manufacture isk from their moons and such under the cover of NPC corp alt haulers and traders. I'm not exactly new to the game, but I did trash my first character of 33m SP and start over. Even with my veteran character, however, I never had any desire to move out of high sec. I didn't care to join anyone else's corp and fight for their ideals, and I didn't bring a bunch of pals to the game who shared mine; there's simply no point leaving high sec as a solo player. When I felt like making a few ISK, I'd run missions. Most of the time, I was just a station ranger, and totally content with that. The RP has been interesting, too. I was never fabulously wealthy, despite my "risk-free" income, and because I did start my own corp just for RP reasons, I always had to worry about someone coming along with a wardec and shutting me down simply because they had the ISK and manpower to do it, for no reason other than a few giggles. I've had people take cheap shots at me for being a carebear for a lot of reasons, and it seems to me that PvP pilots just can't accept that some people play the game for different reasons. One guy even b*ched at me for "raping the database" because I was considering yet another one-man corp for my amusement, as if it would create some terrible extra lag for his alliance; frankly, I don't need anyone's approval to add another object to the database. I can understand folks being frustrated by farmers and 0.0 alts who use the safety of the n00b corps and high sec to fund their operations, but I don't have anything to do with that, and I have the same reasonable expectation of an enjoyable gaming experience as anyone else. The idea that high sec is alluring due to the money is absurd; it's alluring to legitimate players (those of us who aren't ISK farmers or alts) because we generally* aren't bothered much.
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.09.05 16:32:00 - [97] Originally by: Somealt Ofmine Everyone right now is assuming that CCP's intent is to make empire safer and retain the status quo. Maybe it isn't. Maybe they'll suprise us, and the other shoe will drop and they will turn it into a starter zone that you really need to leave after a short while if you want to progress in the game. you have any reason to believe, after the latest patch, that CCP isnt intent on making High Sec 100% safe? They need to cater to the recent influx of curious WoW players, and make sure that they can keep them from canceling their subs b/c they get ganked on their first day. _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.09.05 16:32:00 - [98] Originally by: Norrin Ellis I can understand folks being frustrated by farmers and 0.0 alts who use the safety of the n00b corps and high sec to fund their operations, but I don't have anything to do with that, and I have the same reasonable expectation of an enjoyable gaming experience as anyone else. The idea that high sec is alluring due to the money is absurd; it's alluring to legitimate players (those of us who aren't ISK farmers or alts) because we generally aren't bothered much. Yep. It's a legit play style. There isn't any doubt about it. In most games, you would have chosen a PvE server, most likely, and you could NPC, or build, or whatever you wanted without being hassled by the man. Some of the folks here are arguing that Eve isn't for you, and they are offended that you would want your style of play supported. It's a valid opinion, I guess, but at the end of the day its just their opinion. The only vision for the game that really matters is that of the guys who are paying to keep it running. Their vision may include a place for players like you long term, or it may not. I'm betting that it does, but we'll see.
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.09.05 16:38:00 - [99] Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 05/09/2008 16:43:21 Originally by: Seeing EyeDog you have any reason to believe, after the latest patch, that CCP isnt intent on making High Sec 100% safe? They need to cater to the recent influx of curious WoW players, and make sure that they can keep them from canceling their subs b/c they get ganked on their first day. All I see is them making it safer. No reason not to think that at some point they'll say "OK, we've turned it into a starter zone, now it's time to kick all the veterans out." I think you can trust them to do what they think is in their best interest (i.e. will make the game continue to grow). They seem to be focuing a lot on making the game easier and less confusing to get started in. Long term player retention is also part of their strategy, I'm sure. If they make significant moves to nerf high-sec, what they're saying in effect is that they expect everyone to start PvPing at some point in their career. They haven't done that yet, but it may be coming. The dev's comment that PvP is for protecting your enterprises, whether that's building, or NPCing, or however you make money, is an interesting one. Could be that their long term vision is that veteran players will be required to be willing and able to fight for their progression beyond a certain point. I haven't seen that vision articulated anywhere, though. Seems like they do and always have supported being able to slowly progress in the game as a carebear forever if that's what you want to do.
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.05 18:13:00 - [100] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Originally by: Drunk Driver If you want to PvP without a lot of hassle then lowsec and 0.0 have a lot of allure. If you want to mission run or belt mine then Empire has a lot of allure. If you want to PvP in Empire you may be allure confused. . another person fails to see the point. High sec missioners risk NOTHING, but gain a constant, secure source of income. Oh I see the point. I see it very clearly. You're angry about the security changes in Empire because it's now much harder for you to gank people there. Hence the "Nerf Missons" theme. You want to punish the carebears so you're trying to cook up some love from CCP to move them out to lowsec where they can be spanked. PIRATE REVENGE THREAD. . .
Sinistra Arc Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.09.05 18:26:00 - [101] Originally by: Betty Vector Where was the risk in running high-sec missions before the patch? No really. Where? Hrm, sounds to me like the bottom-feeders and scavengers are a tad upset? This. Did security status change SO much that all the 'cheese-dealers' are whining that their EVE life is unlivable now?
Ishamel 1 Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.09.05 18:27:00 - [102] Originally by: Grarr Dexx Tell me any mission that stands up to a CONSTANT flow of 1.3-1.85mil bs. Pretty much any if there is one other even freindly pilot in system. On the other hand mission rats are an infinite resource, and there is a never ending supply for even 200 people in the same system, which is ridiculous. Quite apart from the fact it is completely unbalanced it rather makes a mockery of the hallowed eve backstory. (how many thousands of hostile battleships are found in these supposedly secure systems every day ....)
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.09.05 18:49:00 - [103] Originally by: Ishamel 1 Quite apart from the fact it is completely unbalanced it rather makes a mockery of the hallowed eve backstory. (how many thousands of hostile battleships are found in these supposedly secure systems every day ....) PvE content in any game, whether it's a "mission" or a "quest" requires some suspension of disbelief. I don't know of any game that has a fully dynamic system for this where you never get the same one twice, and nobody gets the same one that you just got. If you were to limit the number of missions that an agent would hand out in a day, they'd just get camped by the farmers. Not much to be done about that.
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.05 19:30:00 - [104] Originally by: Drunk Driver Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Originally by: Drunk Driver If you want to PvP without a lot of hassle then lowsec and 0.0 have a lot of allure. If you want to mission run or belt mine then Empire has a lot of allure. If you want to PvP in Empire you may be allure confused. . another person fails to see the point. High sec missioners risk NOTHING, but gain a constant, secure source of income. Oh I see the point. I see it very clearly. You're angry about the security changes in Empire because it's now much harder for you to gank people there. Hence the "Nerf Missons" theme. You want to punish the carebears so you're trying to cook up some love from CCP to move them out to lowsec where they can be spanked. PIRATE REVENGE THREAD. . . Cant you carebears try to come with actual arguments once in a while instead of the constant ad hominem attacks.
Sinistra Arc Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.09.05 19:34:00 - [105] Originally by: Esmenet Cant you carebears try to come with actual arguments once in a while instead of the constant ad hominem attacks. They're actually spot on.
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.05 19:51:00 - [106] Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: Drunk Driver Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Originally by: Drunk Driver If you want to PvP without a lot of hassle then lowsec and 0.0 have a lot of allure. If you want to mission run or belt mine then Empire has a lot of allure. If you want to PvP in Empire you may be allure confused. . another person fails to see the point. High sec missioners risk NOTHING, but gain a constant, secure source of income. Oh I see the point. I see it very clearly. You're angry about the security changes in Empire because it's now much harder for you to gank people there. Hence the "Nerf Missons" theme. You want to punish the carebears so you're trying to cook up some love from CCP to move them out to lowsec where they can be spanked. PIRATE REVENGE THREAD. . . Cant you carebears try to come with actual arguments once in a while instead of the constant ad hominem attacks. Let me guess..... You'd rather forum readers NOT FIND OUT that pirate posters are trying to move targets from areas were they are hard to kill to areas were they are easy to kill. Sorry, was that a secret? .
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.09.05 19:53:00 - [107] Originally by: Sinistra Arc Originally by: Esmenet Cant you carebears try to come with actual arguments once in a while instead of the constant ad hominem attacks. They're actually spot on. do what now? since when is avoiding the issue and attacking the poster exactly tackling the issue at hand? _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Sinistra Arc Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.09.05 20:11:00 - [108] Originally by: Drunk Driver Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: Drunk Driver Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Originally by: Drunk Driver If you want to PvP without a lot of hassle then lowsec and 0.0 have a lot of allure. If you want to mission run or belt mine then Empire has a lot of allure. If you want to PvP in Empire you may be allure confused. . another person fails to see the point. High sec missioners risk NOTHING, but gain a constant, secure source of income. Oh I see the point. I see it very clearly. You're angry about the security changes in Empire because it's now much harder for you to gank people there. Hence the "Nerf Missons" theme. You want to punish the carebears so you're trying to cook up some love from CCP to move them out to lowsec where they can be spanked. PIRATE REVENGE THREAD. . . Cant you carebears try to come with actual arguments once in a while instead of the constant ad hominem attacks. Let me guess..... You'd rather forum readers NOT FIND OUT that pirate posters are trying to move targets from areas were they are hard to kill to areas were they are easy to kill. Sorry, was that a secret? . I just don't see the Ad Hominem here.
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.09.06 13:29:00 - [109] Originally by: Sinistra Arc I just don't see the Ad Hominem here. usually you wont, you think all your points are vaild, thats the issue. _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.06 13:44:00 - [110] Originally by: Somealt Ofmine Originally by: Ishamel 1 Quite apart from the fact it is completely unbalanced it rather makes a mockery of the hallowed eve backstory. (how many thousands of hostile battleships are found in these supposedly secure systems every day ....) PvE content in any game, whether it's a "mission" or a "quest" requires some suspension of disbelief. I don't know of any game that has a fully dynamic system for this where you never get the same one twice, and nobody gets the same one that you just got. If you were to limit the number of missions that an agent would hand out in a day, they'd just get camped by the farmers. Not much to be done about that. Good, then maybe the carebears could turn their awesome WHINE OF DOOMÖ to some useful purpose, like getting rid of hi-sec ISK farmers. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2008.09.06 13:48:00 - [111] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog So, after the first day of post-patch testing (and dont say i shouldnt say anything until they tweak shit, they never do, so stop kidding yourself) I've noticed that the High Sec allure compared to that of 0.0 and low sec is significantly out of balance. Where else can you run missions in 100% safety (bar a determined gank squad, and by determined i mean at LEAST 10 Battleships)? Where else can you be guaranteed a secure income every minute of your gaming session? I know you cant do any of that in 0.0. So really, where is the High Sec risk versus Reward? Maybe I'm missing it? Maybe, it's there and I don't see it? Low sec missions offer you higher payout because theyre in less secure space, but really why would I risk life and limb when I can quite literally run a mission in High Security space, with no threat of adverse reaction? Why should alliances be allured to move to 0.0 anymore? Part of the reason is the lucrative money making opportunities, but when theres that much risk involved, your reward seems a pittance. Yes the money to be made off moon minerals is great, but really, does that ever benefit the individual? I cant ever remember making a dime off my corps moon mining. So, CCP, maybe you can tell me, where is the risk in running high sec missions? Response time in a 0.5 system is ~16 seconds. I can only imagine what the response time in a .6 or .7 is. In effect you have plush-covered all of 0.5 and above...Maybe you should just get it over with and make the carebears that much happier and make all the Agents Quality 20. I do hope this gets a response from CCP, you know b/c as far as im concerned, this is an issue far more pressing than Chribba's whine about his veldnaught. Give me some explanation as to why I should be lured into low sec and 0.0. Alt detected, wannabie lvl4 mission ganker detected.. WAAAAAAAAA WAAAAA WAAAAAAA ________________________ I'M POOR
Highwind Cid	Posted - 2008.09.06 14:29:00 - [112] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog So, after the first day of post-patch testing (and dont say i shouldnt say anything until they tweak shit, they never do, so stop kidding yourself) I've noticed that the High Sec allure compared to that of 0.0 and low sec is significantly out of balance. Where else can you run missions in 100% safety (bar a determined gank squad, and by determined i mean at LEAST 10 Battleships)? Where else can you be guaranteed a secure income every minute of your gaming session? I know you cant do any of that in 0.0. So really, where is the High Sec risk versus Reward? Maybe I'm missing it? Maybe, it's there and I don't see it? Low sec missions offer you higher payout because theyre in less secure space, but really why would I risk life and limb when I can quite literally run a mission in High Security space, with no threat of adverse reaction? Why should alliances be allured to move to 0.0 anymore? Part of the reason is the lucrative money making opportunities, but when theres that much risk involved, your reward seems a pittance. Yes the money to be made off moon minerals is great, but really, does that ever benefit the individual? I cant ever remember making a dime off my corps moon mining. So, CCP, maybe you can tell me, where is the risk in running high sec missions? Response time in a 0.5 system is ~16 seconds. I can only imagine what the response time in a .6 or .7 is. In effect you have plush-covered all of 0.5 and above...Maybe you should just get it over with and make the carebears that much happier and make all the Agents Quality 20. I do hope this gets a response from CCP, you know b/c as far as im concerned, this is an issue far more pressing than Chribba's whine about his veldnaught. Give me some explanation as to why I should be lured into low sec and 0.0. I'm going to take a guess and say your a masochist? Yes? No? If empire is SOOOO great, SOOOO much better, SOOO much this, that, and the other thing, why not quit yer bea'atch'in and come to empire? After all, to you it's way better than 0.0, is it not? Or do you like struggling, and pain, and suffering that allegedly you can't make as much isk in null compared to empire? Oh let me get this, you don't care about anything I just said, you just want empire to provide lower income than currently? Well lets just pretend that just happened. Now what? What do ya know, everything pretty much the same, probably a little less PvP due to the lower global isk is about all. What a minute, I'm talking to a wall again. Whoops, nothing to see here, move along.
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.09.06 14:37:00 - [113] Originally by: Malcanis Good, then maybe the carebears could turn their awesome WHINE OF DOOMÖ to some useful purpose, like getting rid of hi-sec ISK farmers. I actually proposed getting rid of L4s altogether, and limiting L3s to 100 missions, then your agent sits you down and pitches you on joining the militia or joining up with Concorde to kill bad guys. To do this, you'd need to make FW at least potentially as lucrative as L4s (with a decent K/D ratio, of course), and likwise provide a system where "Law Enforcement" players could collect Concorde paid bounties by killing those who are criminally flagged (afterall, why should the NPCs have all the fun?). It wasn't a popular proposal. At all.
Mara Rinn Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.07 02:29:00 - [114] Edited by: Mara Rinn on 07/09/2008 02:48:05 Can anyone who is actually a suicide ganker fill us in on whether the "new" CONCORD is actually tougher than the "old" CONCORD? (edit: some discussion here: How Buffed is CONCORD Now?) I'm sure the patch notes mentioned that the faster response is only from CONCORD tackler frigates, with a delayed response from the CONCORD battleships. It sounded to me like suicide ganking was actually getting buffed, since you have more time to kill your target before the neuting gankship comes along to take away your cheap disco light? The argument about mission runners getting too much money seems a little silly - the mission runners have to do something with the money. Where do you think the ISK for GTC comes from?

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