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Amandin Adouin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:16:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 03/09/2008 20:16:00
Originally by: Ruze
But to be fair, I'm not sure if it's because she is just that kind of person, or if it's because that is the social acceptance of a power hungry, 'here to get the job done' type of woman. With my wife in the USMC, she faces that crap all the time. If she ain't a complete b*tch, everyone thinks she's sucking up to the man.
Course, also being honest, that's the same way with the guys. As an NCO, I was taught to be the biggest d*ck around, because that was considered the way leaders should be. A young man in politics has to be a complete hard-*ss behind that veil of charm, else he gets walked all over.
This is it. In America, you have to be that power hungry type of person to succeed in the political realm, at least on Capital Hill. Little mommas boys who can't debate their way out of the bathroom aren't going to make it past the front door. It takes balls and fierceness to make it. These attributes are perfectly acceptable in men. And supposedly so in women. But as soon as an actual strong woman steps up to the plate capable of this, she's a b*tch.
You know I'm only half paying attention to this because I'm trying to get some work done, but I'm alittle shocked at what I'm seeing. The picking apart of every statement - Chainsaw? I'm pretty reasonable and I try to have moderated views, believe it or not. But some of the comments you guys are making seem just like the gut wrench reactions most guys in America are programmed to have when faced with any topics related to feminism. I mean I'm trying really hard to not do this, but I can't seem to avoid hearing the word b*tch being directed at me for writing this all.
P.S. Michael I saw your list. See my first comment. I'm only talking about the U.S. I don't think this is really an issue in Europe, etc.
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Sodium Phosphate
Gallente Killer Koalas Kingdom of Butan
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:19:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Amandin Adouin Why are all the talkers, the political junkies, the alphas in so many of my groups of friends male?
You may not have said it, but you asked it.
Honestly, what do you consider an exception? 10%, 20%?
I'm sorry if the feminism comment was an insult, I didn't know being a feminist is a shameful thing to be.
Honestly I'd like you to cite your sources for the statistical glass ceiling. Its easy to build an argument saying that since I'm not a women that I don't see it. But I do see how my mother does in the workforce, you say you do well, I know my mother has female co-workers that make a couple hundred grand a year at Dell. TBH, you make it sound like men activly think that "Oh she is a women, she can't possibly be better at this job then a man [insert random stereotypical male posturing here], so I'll just give Bob the promotion".
Yeah stereotypes do exist, but its why they exist which makes them wrong or right. Are most women not in engineering fields because they want to study something else? Or is it because they are raised under the belief that a women can't make it into the engineering field because its a male dominated profession?
and no, no nerves were hit, I just feel like having a fun little discussion, hoping the police state that the mods have here won't bring the whack of the delete bat.
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:24:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Amandin Adouin But some of the comments you guys ...
And what do you mean by this, hmm!?! You guys, just assuming that every replying HAS to be a guy, hmm!?!
Okay, bullsh*t bad jokes aside.
No, your not being a b*tch, any more than any person who disagrees with me is automatically an *sshole for doing so. Personally, I think a lot of our top politicians are people I wouldn't want to live next to me, they are so corrupt and power hungry.
ANY system built and designed by man, be it a government, a religion, an organization or the frigging Boy Scouts, is going to draw those 'evil' individuals who seek to use the efforts of others for personal gain.
Well, these people ain't exactly evil in my book, but that level of self-centerdness, when applied to millions of followers, means that the people who WANT to lead you aren't usually the people you want to lead.
The flip side of this, is that anybody with any experience realizes that leading SUCKS and is a complete mindjob, and would rather leave it up to those who are crazy enough to want to do it.
Thus, you have the primary reason why no governing system, be it America's republic or China's communist state, is free of power hungry and conniving b*tches and *ssholes.
You can safely assume that anyone who has the gumption to run for president or chancellor or whatever your nation calls it, is going to be a b*tch or an *sshole. The only real dilemma is deciding whether you can stomach them for the duration of their term.
And when you ask me that about Hillary, my answer is 'No.'
Originally by: CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:28:00 -
[34]
And she sidesteps Palin again. I sense the hillary support is strong in this one. I also noticed you didn't take up the presidents I mentioned which tells me you don't want to admit that your wrong in the fact that male politicians get called out as well.
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Rawrior
Gallente Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:29:00 -
[35]
well.. linkage there..
_____ TEH FORUM POLICE!!1!11!@2! |
Father Weebles
Celestial Refraction
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:33:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Father Weebles on 03/09/2008 20:34:30
Originally by: Ruze Of course, not that I'd trust an atheist, either. An agnostic, maybe, but not someone who outright refuses to accept the presence of a higher being.
Uh, atheists do not believe there is evidence to suggest a higher being. We don't actively refuse to believe, but it would indeed take a hell of a lot of evidence for me to believe in one, something that nobody on this planet can put forth. Faith isn't evidence.
"You leave anything for us?" "Just bodies." |
soldieroffortune 258
Gallente Trinity Council
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:36:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Kyanzes Edited by: Kyanzes on 03/09/2008 17:38:01
With women in power we would have:
- hideous wars without end - sudden changes in politics, probably on a week-by-week basis - fights would occur every day in the parliament - decrees would be enacted out of emotional discharge - p0rn would be abolished (OMG, already a cause not to let them into power) - women would have a week off every month with salary
so true
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
"Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer"
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:37:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Rawrior well.. linkage there..
I got part way through before I couldn't stomach that anymore.
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:40:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Originally by: Rawrior well.. linkage there..
I got part way through before I couldn't stomach that anymore.
It's people like that who make being a guy such a 'horrible' thing.
I'm a guy. Not exactly proud of it, considering all I had to do was be born, but I like it. But this guy is awful.
Originally by: CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:40:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Ruze
Originally by: Amandin Adouin Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 03/09/2008 17:39:52
I don't think America is ready for women to be in charge yet... strong women are still considered bitches here (like Hillary). Even though the guys will never admit it or even realize they think this way*. I'm sure I'll get some colorful responses to this one. Come on, prove me wrong ;)
I think Europe's ready though. How many European countries have female leaders now? I know Finland does :)
*This opinion does not necessarily reflect all male viewpoints; certain restrictions apply.
There are as many intelligent, thoughtful and dedicated women in the world as men.
But no matter how you paint it, Hillary is a b*tch. There's nothing wrong with a woman president or VP or anything, but I wouldn't vote for Hillary just to have a woman in office. I wouldn't vote for Hillary if she was a guy, or if all the choices were women, or if she was the only female allowed to run for president for the next century.
You shouldn't capitulate the leadership of a country over something as trivial as race or sex.
That being said, I've read many reports that state that American men and women still picture the president as a 'father figure', and this leads to us voting for that type of individual.
Thank you! I thought I was the only person who thought that in this day and age. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Amandin Adouin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:40:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 03/09/2008 20:44:29
Originally by: Sodium Phosphate
Originally by: Amandin Adouin Why are all the talkers, the political junkies, the alphas in so many of my groups of friends male?
You may not have said it, but you asked it.
Honestly, what do you consider an exception? 10%, 20%? I'm sorry if the feminism comment was an insult, I didn't know being a feminist is a shameful thing to be. Honestly I'd like you to cite your sources for the statistical glass ceiling. Its easy to build an argument saying that since I'm not a women that I don't see it. But I do see how my mother does in the workforce, you say you do well, I know my mother has female co-workers that make a couple hundred grand a year at Dell. TBH, you make it sound like men activly think that "Oh she is a women, she can't possibly be better at this job then a man [insert random stereotypical male posturing here], so I'll just give Bob the promotion". Yeah stereotypes do exist, but its why they exist which makes them wrong or right. Are most women not in engineering fields because they want to study something else? Or is it because they are raised under the belief that a women can't make it into the engineering field because its a male dominated profession? and no, no nerves were hit, I just feel like having a fun little discussion, hoping the police state that the mods have here won't bring the whack of the delete bat.
Haha okay. I'm just having fun here also, while frantically trying to write a marketing report. It was the way you said the 'well you sure do sound like a feminist' bit. I guess I took it the wrong way. Although honestly, I wouldn't want to be called a feminist. We live in a country of extremes and there's two sides to every coin. While it may have been a very noble movement historically, with womens' suffrage and all, our specific brand of modern day feminism tends to be a bit too extreme for my tastes. It speaks to me of angry lesbians, honestly .
I work in research, it'll take me some time to dig up a source over here that I'll feel comfortable citing. But I've seen research on this, I will dig up some data on it.
And thanks for the moderacy and common sense in your comments Ruze... We're actually probably coming from pretty similar places. I picked up this torch for some reason today, and now I have to see it through ;)
Michael, Michael, Michael. Palin is a joke. She's being carried on the strong backing of McCain, simply because she's a woman. Dude, she only got picked to win McCain the election. I know this sounds like I'm not making sense here, but hear me out. Palin would not have/could not have made it to the White House on her own. (And she still won't, even with McCain - I'll bet money on it). Not only, does she not have it in her cohones-wise, but she's NOT qualified. She's a ****ing stay at a home mom moonlighting as a governor of our least populated state. (Again, nothing at all wrong with stay at home moms). But because of the weird dynamics of this election - good old boy going out with the establishment that brought him in, and black man coming in with a new plan for the country (minus that b*tch Hillary ), I was actually expecting McCain to pick a woman. It's a weird, bizarre time. But we're talking about different things here Michael. I'm not saying a woman couldn't manage to finagle her way into the White House somehow, riding the coat-tails of a man. I'm saying I doubt she could make it in there on her own right now, being the b*tch you have to be the make it on Capital Hill. Does that make sense? Because she would be considered a b*tch for acting the way she would have to just to get to be President of this country. But acting this way would be swallowed a lot easier if it was a man doing so.
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Sodium Phosphate
Gallente Killer Koalas Kingdom of Butan
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:43:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Rawrior well.. linkage there..
I don't know if he is serious or not. Honestly I don't know to punch the guy or laugh.
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Ademaro Imre
Caldari Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:47:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Originally by: Ruze
That being said, I've read many reports that state that American men and women still picture the president as a 'father figure', and this leads to us voting for that type of individual.
Thank you! I thought I was the only person who thought that in this day and age.
Reading reports and being in America are, extremely different things. Bush - A Father Figure? Bill Clinton, a father figure? The aim of politics is to keep the populace alarmed and clamorous to be saved by menacing it with imaginary hobgoblins. The urge to save humanity is a false front for the urge to rule it. |
Micheal Dietrich
Caldari Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:48:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Sodium Phosphate
Originally by: Rawrior well.. linkage there..
I don't know if he is serious or not. Honestly I don't know to punch the guy or laugh.
Oh he's serious. Watch the Dr. Phil vid. Funny as hell, but having said that I wouldn't be able to stick around him for more than 5 minutes before fist start flying.
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Sodium Phosphate
Gallente Killer Koalas Kingdom of Butan
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:48:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Amandin Adouin Although honestly, I wouldn't want to be called a feminist. We live in a country of extremes and there's two sides to every coin. While it may have been a very noble movement historically, with womens' suffrage and all, our specific brand of modern day feminism tends to be a bit too extreme for my tastes. It speaks to me of angry lesbians, honestly
QFT, although I disagree on the Palin bit. As I've said before, I hope McCain keels over just so we can have Palin in the oval office.
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:52:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ademaro Imre
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Originally by: Ruze
That being said, I've read many reports that state that American men and women still picture the president as a 'father figure', and this leads to us voting for that type of individual.
Thank you! I thought I was the only person who thought that in this day and age.
Reading reports and being in America are, extremely different things. Bush - A Father Figure? Bill Clinton, a father figure?
How they appear to be when running and how they act while in office are two very diffrent things. In any case I was refering to everything else he said, not just that little tidbit. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Amandin Adouin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.09.03 20:57:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 03/09/2008 21:02:09
I was a McCain supporter until he picked her. Funny, huh? I was pushing to get him elected back in 2004 (over Bush).
She's not qualified and she's way too conservative. Anyone citing her as a reason for why the American political system isn't misogynistic is kidding themselves. She's only being pulled in on the coat tails of McCain. It's actually embarrasing. To me she doesn't represent a step forward but ten steps back. The fact that she has female chemistry really should mean nothing at all - it shouldn't be a detractor or selling point.
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.09.03 21:06:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Amandin Adouin Block of text
So what your saying is that you choose a woman who used some of the dirtiest tricks in the book to outrightly attack her competitor, including race and religion cards, then smiles and clings to the same mans back still groping for that moment after if takes her several weeks to admit defeat and who also has deep financial problems of her own to run this country.
She supported the war when the bill came up, then she opposed it in view of supporters.
She lied about being under sniper fire in Bosnia.
Then theres Whitewater and Travelgate
She is smart, I'll give that. I'll also give her evil, vindictive, and manipulative. And She's already had 4 years.
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.09.03 21:08:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Amandin Adouin Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 03/09/2008 21:02:09
I was a McCain supporter until he picked her. Funny, huh? I was pushing to get him elected back in 2004 (over Bush).
She's not qualified and she's way too conservative. Anyone citing her as a reason for why the American political system isn't misogynistic is kidding themselves. She's only being pulled in on the coat tails of McCain. It's actually embarrasing. To me she doesn't represent a step forward but ten steps back. The fact that she has female chemistry really should mean nothing at all - it shouldn't be a detractor or selling point.
Problem is though Obama is someone who hasnt completed a full term in any office and his running mate has 30 years experience. What happens when the leader of a country is a green horn and his vice could likely run the country better than him? |
Sodium Phosphate
Gallente Killer Koalas Kingdom of Butan
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Posted - 2008.09.03 21:11:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Amandin Adouin Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 03/09/2008 21:02:09
I was a McCain supporter until he picked her. Funny, huh? I was pushing to get him elected back in 2004 (over Bush).
She's not qualified and she's way too conservative. Anyone citing her as a reason for why the American political system isn't misogynistic is kidding themselves. She's only being pulled in on the coat tails of McCain. It's actually embarrasing. To me she doesn't represent a step forward but ten steps back. The fact that she has female chemistry really should mean nothing at all - it shouldn't be a detractor or selling point.
She may not be qualified, but she also doesn't seem to be corrupted by the parasite that most politicians have (can't say the same for either of the candidates unfourtunatly).
And whats wrong with being too conservative? wouldn't mind hearing something from the other side of the hedge, my father being an mild libertarian and mother a closet liberal that doesn't speak out much (I'm a college student btw, making me a liberal for some odd reason in most eyes). |
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.09.03 21:19:00 -
[51]
My biggest problem with McCains VP pick is that she put into motion a program of aerial hunting of the alaskian wolves shortly after they came off the endangered spieces lists supposively to curb declining Moose populations. Im sure that because shes the VP that McCain lost the enviromentalist vote. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Sodium Phosphate
Gallente Killer Koalas Kingdom of Butan
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Posted - 2008.09.03 21:23:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Sodium Phosphate on 03/09/2008 21:23:36
Originally by: Jacob Mei My biggest problem with McCains VP pick is that she put into motion a program of aerial hunting of the alaskian wolves shortly after they came off the endangered spieces lists supposively to curb declining Moose populations. Im sure that because shes the VP that McCain lost the enviromentalist vote.
Wait, wouldn't she get the environmentalist vote? I mean, she did it for the mooses. I think that is logical in an illogical way.
EDIT: Idk, I've heard moose bites hurt.
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Benny Hill
Caldari Deceased Inc
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Posted - 2008.09.03 21:23:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Benny Hill on 03/09/2008 21:25:32
Originally by: Amandin Adouin Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 03/09/2008 21:02:09
I was a McCain supporter until he picked her. Funny, huh? I was pushing to get him elected back in 2004 (over Bush).
She's not qualified and she's way too conservative. Anyone citing her as a reason for why the American political system isn't misogynistic is kidding themselves. She's only being pulled in on the coat tails of McCain. It's actually embarrasing. To me she doesn't represent a step forward but ten steps back. The fact that she has female chemistry really should mean nothing at all - it shouldn't be a detractor or selling point.
You are making posts, but you really have limited knowledge of current politics in the US. Sarah Palin did not use her husband's popularity to be a Mayor, or a commission member, or a Governor. Hillary, used her husband to be appointed to certain tasks in the whitehouse, and used his last name to run for the senate. Hillary would be nowhere without the explicit help of her husband/MAN. You can't say that about Sara Palin. McCain is now being pulled by the coattails of Sarah Palin. You refuse to acknowledge her own accomplishments, and so far - she is more qualified that both of the men opposing her combined. When it comes down to it - you just don't like her because she is a conservative, and a milf. Oh, and the woman introducing her speech tonight, is the Republican FEMALE Governor of Hawaii.
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drendell
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Posted - 2008.09.03 21:26:00 -
[54]
see Britain has gone for a different approach instead of a man or a women, we picked up a bunny rabbit and created a suit of armor for it.
this suit was called Gordon brown (king of the bunnys). we recently found out however that the rabbit that was chosen was evil and was happy to sit down and eat high grade cabbage while the worlds economy fell. many of you have probably already relised that the rabbits brother Cletus lives in George bush.
anyway im done with that completely pointless story and can now say this. why the two extremes the world can run with both women and men in power. and to say that men are destroyers is a stupid thing to say, remember that most conquers had a women behind the scenes pulling the levers. and if you didn't want to be oppressed and kept out of power you shouldn't of listened to that snake in Eden. (that was a joke)
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Sodium Phosphate
Gallente Killer Koalas Kingdom of Butan
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Posted - 2008.09.03 21:26:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Benny Hill ....and a milf.
true dat.
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.09.03 21:30:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Benny Hill
You are making posts, but you really have limited knowledge of current politics in the US. Sarah Palin did not use her husband's popularity to be a Mayor, or a commission member, or a Governor. Hillary, used her husband to be appointed to certain tasks in the whitehouse, and used his last name to run for the senate. Hillary would be nowhere without the explicit help of her husband/MAN. You can't say that about Sara Palin. McCain is now being pulled by the coattails of Sarah Palin. You refuse to acknowledge her own accomplishments, and so far - she is more qualified that both of the men opposing her combined. When it comes down to it - you just don't like her because she is a conservative, and a milf. Oh, and the woman introducing her speech tonight, is the Republican FEMALE Governor of Hawaii.
Sarah Palins husband is awesome, he's a blue collared snowmobiling sophisticated redneck. I'd love to meet that guy some day.
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Amandin Adouin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.09.03 21:31:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 03/09/2008 21:33:10
Originally by: Benny Hill ...
I really don't want to turn this into a flat out political thread and get it locked. I am very much aware of the current political landscape; you're the one who doesn't understand the whole point of this discussion.
Let's bring this full circle back to the OP, a woman being in charge wouldn't automatically make anything better. How a person does, while in power, would depend entirely on the person, male or female. I think they need to earn their position and they need to be qualified for it. I think they should be tempered with moderation to lead (especially to lead the last great superpower) (which I don't think Palin is). I think both McCain and Obama would do fine, as they both have years of experience on Capitol Hill and they both show the wisdom I think is needed.
Edit: I hope you're enjoying your popcorn Isis, if you're reading this ;)
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Taua Roqa
Minmatar Groping Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2008.09.03 21:31:00 -
[58]
what about all those backwards muslim nations?
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xVALERIAx
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.03 21:32:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Cristina Fernßndez de Kirchner - President of Argentina Pratibha Patil - President of India Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf - Member of Federal council of Switzerland Nino Burjanadze - acting president of Georgia until early this year Doris Leuthard - Member of Federal council of Switzerland Michelle Bachelet - President of Chile Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf - President of Liberia Sarah Palin - Mccains VP nominee.
admittedly not current but,
Margaret Thatcher - prime minister UK - 11 years
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Bistot Kid
The First Thing You'll Ever See
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Posted - 2008.09.03 21:34:00 -
[60]
You've already voted for two Bushes, what's wrong with a third? -------------------- What? Me Worry? -------------------- |
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