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JAQUE ALERA	Posted - 2008.09.03 17:19:00 - [1] I've been thinking about this today. Why not give them a shot? Look around and judge how great a job men have done for the world. Men destroy. Women create. Men conquer. Women communicate. Tired of destruction and threats. Encourage women into leadership roles.
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach	Posted - 2008.09.03 17:22:00 - [2] This thought has been pondered in my head for many years, and I say hey lets give it a go. But unfortunatly there are too many individuals stuck with old thought process. Time for change to happen rapidly. Lets see what happens. Slade Originally by: Crumplecorn NerfBat is now known as the WaveMachine. DesuSigs
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.03 17:28:00 - [3] Of course, what you spoke of was a broad and inaccurate generalization. While I might agree that men have a tendency to be more physically aggressive than woman, that doesn't mean that women don't have an incredible capacity for destruction. I mean, women destroy each others reputations every day with backhanded comments and underhanded double-speak. There is a reason 'politics' has been equated as the arena of women and feminine men for centuries. Not that it's accurate to a T, no way. But I much prefer to get a broken knuckle and a busted lip than the emotional raping that women commence with on a daily basis. Two men get in a fight, and you can often see them go into the bar together later on, drinking and singing side by side. Women will keep enemies for life. Originally by: CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
Irish Whiskey Caldari The Black Fleet The Black Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.03 17:32:00 - [4] Originally by: JAQUE ALERA Men destroy. Women create. Men conquer. Women communicate. Women alone can't create, and their communication is based on strange chemical reactions that define their mood.
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.03 17:36:00 - [5] Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 03/09/2008 17:37:12 I don't think America is ready for women to be in charge yet... strong women are still considered btches here (like Hillary). Even though the guys will never admit it or even realize they think this way. I think Europe's ready though. How many European countries have female leaders now? I know Finland does :)
Kyanzes Amarr Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.09.03 17:36:00 - [6] Edited by: Kyanzes on 03/09/2008 17:36:41 - hideous wars without end - sudden changes in politics, probably on a week-by-week basis - fights would occur every day in the parliament - decrees would be enacted out of emotional discharge - p0rn would be abolished (OMG, already a cause not to let them into power) - women would have a week off every month with salary --------------------------------------------- Unclouded by conscience, remorse or delusions of morality.
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.09.03 17:42:00 - [7] Originally by: Amandin Adouin Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 03/09/2008 17:39:52 I don't think America is ready for women to be in charge yet... strong women are still considered bitches here (like Hillary). Even though the guys will never admit it or even realize they think this way. I'm sure I'll get some colorful responses to this one. Come on, prove me wrong ;) I think Europe's ready though. How many European countries have female leaders now? I know Finland does :) This opinion does not necessarily reflect all male viewpoints; certain restrictions apply. Germany has a female chancelor, the Netherlands have 10 women among their ministers and secretaries of state. I think most EU countries have a number of women in the top spots in politics now.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.09.03 17:46:00 - [8] Cristina Fernßndez de Kirchner - President of Argentina Pratibha Patil - President of India Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf - Member of Federal council of Switzerland Nino Burjanadze - acting president of Georgia until early this year Doris Leuthard - Member of Federal council of Switzerland Michelle Bachelet - President of Chile Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf - President of Liberia Sarah Palin - Mccains VP nominee.

CCP Saint C C P	Posted - 2008.09.03 17:47:00 - [9] My female intuition is telling me this thread is heading in a sketchy direction. Saint Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang Do Not Click Here "Contrary to what most people say, the most dangerous animal in the world is not the lion or the tiger or even the elephant. It's a shark riding on an elephant's back, just trampling and eating everything they see."

Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.03 17:52:00 - [10] Originally by: Amandin Adouin Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 03/09/2008 17:39:52 I don't think America is ready for women to be in charge yet... strong women are still considered bitches here (like Hillary). Even though the guys will never admit it or even realize they think this way. I'm sure I'll get some colorful responses to this one. Come on, prove me wrong ;) I think Europe's ready though. How many European countries have female leaders now? I know Finland does :) This opinion does not necessarily reflect all male viewpoints; certain restrictions apply. There are as many intelligent, thoughtful and dedicated women in the world as men. But no matter how you paint it, Hillary is a btch. There's nothing wrong with a woman president or VP or anything, but I wouldn't vote for Hillary just to have a woman in office. I wouldn't vote for Hillary if she was a guy, or if all the choices were women, or if she was the only female allowed to run for president for the next century. You shouldn't capitulate the leadership of a country over something as trivial as race or sex. That being said, I've read many reports that state that American men and women still picture the president as a 'father figure', and this leads to us voting for that type of individual. Originally by:* CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:11:00 - [11] Mmmm. I'm not a feminist, not even close. I think biology has imposed certain roles on the two genders, i.e. men are stronger, they're the hunters, women are the nourishers. These roles have worked, and to some degree I think we need them. I don't see anything wrong with stay-at-home moms, etc. That said. Misogny has absolutely invaded American culture and society in a very deep way. It's so deeply instilled in us, that we don't even notice it. I think it comes from our Puritanical roots. Why do some many people think Hillary is a btch? And why don't they think X-male politician is? Why is it okay for men to brag about their sexual conquests, but women who do so are ****s? Why is there a glass ceiling in America? Why are all the talkers, the political junkies, the alphas in so many of my groups of friends male? Why are the females supposed to sit there looking cute? Again, this does not apply to all guys. I know many, many, guys who this doesn't reflect at all. But this is the case for Americans on a grand scale. People just refuse to open their eyes to it.
Sodium Phosphate Gallente Killer Koalas Kingdom of Butan	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:33:00 - [12] Originally by: Amandin Adouin Mmmm. I'm not a feminist, not even close. I think biology has imposed certain roles on the two genders, i.e. men are stronger, they're the hunters, women are the nourishers. These roles have worked, and to some degree I think we need them. I don't see anything wrong with stay-at-home moms, etc. That said. Misogny has absolutely invaded American culture and society in a very deep way. It's so deeply instilled in us, that we don't even notice it. I think it comes from our Puritanical roots. Why do some many people think Hillary is a btch? And why don't they think X-male politician is? Why is it okay for men to brag about their sexual conquests, but women who do so are **s? Why is there a glass ceiling in America? Why are all the talkers, the political junkies, the alphas in so many of my groups of friends male? Why are the females supposed to sit there looking cute? Again, this does not apply to all guys. I know many, many, guys who this doesn't reflect at all. But this is the case for Americans on a grand scale. People just refuse to open their eyes to it. You might not be a feminist, but you'd be a damned good one. Hillary is a *, hell, even her husband couldn't stay true to her, which one is the effect or the cause is debatable. Too be honest, if you apply the term to males, which you really can't, then most male politicians WOULD be *es. I consider a * to be a women who looks for underhanded tactics to push themselves for gain. That and being arrogant while doing it. Male politicians are generally always falling under that except for being a women part, so it can't really be applied. Glass ceiling? Tbh my mom is the bread-winner of the family, and she does it by being good at her job and not complaining that there are too many men ahead of her in the corporate ladder. My dad sits at home messing with hobbies. The only people that see the ceiling are those that are really trying to look for it. Ever listen to Anne Coulter(sp?), there are plenty of female political junkies and talkers. Thats bs to say that they are all men. TBH I know more alpha women then I do men. Women are better socially then men are, it's a fact. But men are more focused on expertise then socializing. Therefore in specific and knowledgeable fields, men will typically be alpha. However in team building and leadership women are typically alpha. I think your buying into some femi** propaganda.
Fink Angel Caldari The Merry Men	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:36:00 - [13] Forget male / female, just don't allow religious people to be in charge. That will fix most things.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:36:00 - [14] Heheh ... I'm a stay-at-home dad married to a female Marine. The only person I've ever met who had any problems with it ... was me! I'm bored out of my mind, intermixed with small moments of absolute, two-year-old induced terror! God help our society. Originally by: CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:41:00 - [15] Originally by: Fink Angel Forget male / female, just don't allow religious people to be in charge. That will fix most things. I love how someone touts 'separation of church and state'. A truly religious person (i.e. a person who believes and lives by the code of their religion of choice, not just a church-goer and not some zealot) will have their religion effect every single decision they make. What's more, we often elect individuals who are the same religion as we, in order to make sure they share similar viewpoints. There is no way a devout individual can represent everyone fairly and without bias. It's impossible. The only way to get such representation is if the person is not truly devout, and can set aside the laws of his own morality in order to pursue true equality. Of course, not that I'd trust an atheist, either. An agnostic, maybe, but not someone who outright refuses to accept the presence of a higher being. Originally by: CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
Eskalin Minmatar Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:52:00 - [16] what are you doing out of the kitchen? If babies weren't to be eaten they wouldn't be hibachi sized
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:58:00 - [17] Originally by: Sodium Phosphate You might not be a feminist, but you'd be a damned good one. Hillary is a ***, hell, even her husband couldn't stay true to her, which one is the effect or the cause is debatable. Too be honest, if you apply the term to males, which you really can't, then most male politicians WOULD be *es. I consider a * to be a women who looks for underhanded tactics to push themselves for gain. That and being arrogant while doing it. Male politicians are generally always falling under that except for being a women part, so it can't really be applied. Glass ceiling? Tbh my mom is the bread-winner of the family, and she does it by being good at her job and not complaining that there are too many men ahead of her in the corporate ladder. My dad sits at home messing with hobbies. The only people that see the ceiling are those that are really trying to look for it. Ever listen to Anne Coulter(sp?), there are plenty of female political junkies and talkers. Thats bs to say that they are all men. TBH I know more alpha women then I do men. Women are better socially then men are, it's a fact. But men are more focused on expertise then socializing. Therefore in specific and knowledgeable fields, men will typically be alpha. However in team building and leadership women are typically alpha. I think your buying into some femi** propaganda. oohh, I always love it when a man starts an argument with a (perceived) insult ;) You're talking about things you don't understand. There is a glass celing, it's a statistical fact. I'm not personalizing it, I do just fine in the workforce. But just because your mom is a bread winner and you haven't seen this with your own eyes doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. It does. I never said that all political junkies or talking heads were men. I was very careful to explicitly state that these are broad generalizations. Exceptions exist to everything. However, stereotypes do arise for a reason, they don't come out of thin air. And everything I stated is true, in general. Quote: Too be honest, if you apply the term to males, which you really can't, then most male politicians WOULD be ***es. I consider a *** to be a women who looks for underhanded tactics to push themselves for gain. That and being arrogant while doing it. Male politicians are generally always falling under that except for being a women part, so it can't really be applied. Well that's my point. Most men in politics would be considered "***es", but they're not called out on it. This term is bandied every single *ing time I hear the name Hillary. But male politician aren't being called out on their schemes nearly as much. They're getting pats on the butt and a bruhaha. As for the "underhanded tactics" comment, I hope you know by now that not everything you see on tv and the Internet is correct (such as your "fact" about women being better socially than men. There is a very active propaganda machine at work, that is especiallya ctive and vocal when trying to discredit the Democrats - Hillary and Bill included. The fact that you were so quick to jump on all comments in such a provoked* way makes me think some nerves were hit.
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:59:00 - [18] Originally by: Eskalin what are you doing out of the kitchen? sorry but LOL ________________________ I'M POOR
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.09.03 19:04:00 - [19] Originally by: Amandin Adouin Well that's my point. Most men in politics would be considered "btches", but they're not called out on it. This term is bandied every single ****ing time I hear the name Hillary. But male politician aren't being called out on their schemes nearly as much. They're getting pats on the butt and a big bruhaha. What world do you live in? And especially to make comments like this in the year of the mudslinger.
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.03 19:11:00 - [20] Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 03/09/2008 19:13:36 Michael, I honestly think you'd have to be a woman to understand. It's a culmination of everything I've seen in my life, and others'. I know much mud is being slung. But everytime I hear about Hillary I hear the word "btch". Even from friends who are otherwise very liberal and, in my opinion, enlightened. But these same guys can take the nastiest, most arrogant and conniving male politician and respect him for it. You start to see pattern after awhile. It gets old. And I really need to get back to work. Edit: I didn't mean to insinuate that you had to be a liberal to be enlightened. They were meant to be separate.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.09.03 19:16:00 - [21] And what is, pray tell, the MALE version of the "b'tch" epithet ? _ SHOPS \|\| Mission rewards revamp \|\| better nanofix
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.03 19:16:00 - [22] If you think that a lot of men don't look at some of our politicians and think 'Man, that guys an ss', or 'man, that guys a ***' ... you don't know men. Problem is, the men who work their way into office have to be likable sorts. I personally dislike nearly everything about Bill Clinton, but having met the guy, he sure had charisma and charm. Hillary doesn't have that, and I've had the unfortunate ease of having met her, too, if only in passing. But to be fair, I'm not sure if it's because she is just that kind of person, or if it's because that is the social acceptance of a power hungry, 'here to get the job done' type of woman. With my wife in the USMC, she faces that crap all the time. If she ain't a complete btch, everyone thinks she's sucking up to the man. Course, also being honest, that's the same way with the guys. As an NCO, I was taught to be the biggest dck around, because that was considered the way leaders should be. A young man in politics has to be a complete hard-ss behind that veil of charm, else he gets walked all over. Originally by: CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.09.03 19:20:00 - [23] You see the pattern you want to see apparrantly. I didn't exactly see Mr. Clinton being patted on the back, more like booted in the ass. GB? Great reviews going on there. Nixon? Johnson? And I see you keep bringing up Clinton but you haven't said a thing about any of the ladies I posted earlier. And yes, Clinton is a two faced liar, there are much better choices than her.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.03 19:24:00 - [24] Originally by: Amandin Adouin Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 03/09/2008 19:13:36 Michael, I honestly think you'd have to be a woman to understand. It's a culmination of everything I've seen in my life, and others'. I know much mud is being slung. But everytime I hear about Hillary I hear the word "btch". Even from friends who are otherwise very liberal and, in my opinion, enlightened. But these same guys can take the nastiest, most arrogant and conniving male politician and respect him for it. You start to see pattern after awhile. It gets old. And I really need to get back to work. Edit: I didn't mean to insinuate that you had to be a liberal to be enlightened. They were meant to be separate. Of course you see the slights in the worst light. You are a woman, and possibly a Hillary supporter. I'm a young, middle class white American male. It's funny, but only ever do we see the hate thrown in our direction, and we always downplay what others experience. She's a woman, she can't know how I feel. Being from the south, I'm automatically a racist, and a unsophisticated bible-thumping, tobacco-chewing, ignorant hick. There aren't any programs out there that pay ME grants to go to school because I have different sexual appendages, or different color skin. Nobodies chiming up the horse to defend ME when someone calls me racial slurs or throws around 'white' jokes on public TV. Hundreds of thousands of people of European and American decent (aka white people) are being killed each day in central Africa in the name of 'racial retribution', and yet it's nothing to the world medias? Oh, poor me, right? I don't have a clue what it's like to be a woman, at how rough life is and how wrong everyone treats you. Please bear with me. I'm not trying to belittle your 'plight' despite how harsh my words sound, but have you ever honestly considered that people call Hillary a btch because of her policies, because of the way she presents herself, because of the things she's said and done in the past? Or maybe it's because many feel she's morally inept, willing to stick with a corrupt and immoral husband in order to maintain political appeal? We each overglorify how bad we're treated, just as every human being in existence tries to find some means to justify their superiority over others. Originally by:* CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
Benny Hill Caldari Deceased Inc	Posted - 2008.09.03 19:43:00 - [25] Edited by: Benny Hill on 03/09/2008 19:43:43 Originally by: Amandin Adouin Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 03/09/2008 17:39:52 I don't think America is ready for women to be in charge yet... strong women are still considered bitches here (like Hillary). Even though the guys will never admit it or even realize they think this way. I'm sure I'll get some colorful responses to this one. Come on, prove me wrong ;) I think Europe's ready though. How many European countries have female leaders now? I know Finland does :) This opinion does not necessarily reflect all male viewpoints; certain restrictions apply. The ones that think Hillary is a ***** (because she is), are jazzed and can't wait to pull the lever for McCain/Palin, because of Palin though. Many conservatives in the US are not thrilled about McCain, and in fact dislike his politics, but see Sarah Palin as a great VP, and will vote for his ticket because of Sarah. Hillary was never strong, and always rode on the coattails of her husband. Conservatives want a strong woman, and I would say any hockey coach would be strong, a hunter/shooter would be strong too - and that is why conservatives in the US, and Republicans and strongly backing the McCain/Palin ticket. Not that Palin is a milf, but because she does kick ass.
Bish Ounen Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.09.03 19:43:00 - [26] I think that many people miss the point about Hillary too. "Bitch" is the feminine form of the male insult "Asshole" They are roughly equal to one another. So when a Man calls a woman like Hillary that word, just realize that he is using the feminine form of the insult. if Hillary were a man, she'd be an assh*le. It's really that simple. And while I do agree that there is a glass ceiling, I also believe that it is spiderwebbed with cracks and shot full of holes large enough for a woman to get through. Keep in mind that the statistics can be deceiving. Stats for women's earnings vs men's earnings over a lifetime frequently fail to take childbirth and child rearing into account, and the fact that many many women voluntarily choose the challenges of motherhood over the challenges of the workplace. This is naturally going to lower the overall earnings stats for women when not factored into the equation properly. Personally, I think that a woman in a Western Democracy can do pretty much whatever she wants. While there may be some resistance from older males, there will be little to none from almost anywhere else. Times have changed, and people have changed with them. Tactical Logistics using the last T1 Frigate hull!
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.09.03 19:43:00 - [27] Originally by: Amandin Adouin oohh, I always love it when a man starts an argument with a (perceived) insult ;) You're talking about things you don't understand. There is a glass celing, it's a statistical fact. I'm not personalizing it, I do just fine in the workforce. But just because your mom is a bread winner and you haven't seen this with your own eyes doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. It does. I never said that all political junkies or talking heads were men. I was very careful to explicitly state that these are broad generalizations. Exceptions exist to everything. However, stereotypes do arise for a reason, they don't come out of thin air. And everything I stated is true, in general. so its a statistical fact that the glass ceiling exists but there are exceptions to the fact that it exists
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:11:00 - [28] If we're going to speak in general terms I find that women are into upkeeping of the established norm while men try their damndest to break it, if you don't you're a gentleman, the other metrosexual meat. Taken to the extreme we'd see a stagnant society where everything is the same always and men find little reason to get out of bed, smalltalk about the next family dinner a week from now and what aunt got a birthday coming up just doesn't cut it. The problem with diversity on the other hand is that it'll get worse before it gets better as the women promoted now are promoted by men who promote women who are most like themselves i.e more man than woman. How half the seats of any ruling body isn't already set aside for women in any country claiming to be democratic is beyond me. Arguments like that they'd be less efficient and such falls flat on its ass when you think of how many efficient mistakes we've rushed into through history. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Thorliaron Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:13:00 - [29] obviously never seen woman in the work place, they are all catty about it eachother like mad, imagine if they had guns,nuclear missiles and armies of men at their finger tips.
Captain Hudson Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:14:00 - [30] Originally by: JAQUE ALERA I've been thinking about this today. Why not give them a shot? Look around and judge how great a job men have done for the world. Men destroy. Women create. Men conquer. Women communicate. Tired of destruction and threats. Encourage women into leadership roles. Yes men have never ever created anything we see around us in the world today, it was all women Bin Laden Dancing
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:16:00 - [31] Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 03/09/2008 20:16:00 Originally by: Ruze But to be fair, I'm not sure if it's because she is just that kind of person, or if it's because that is the social acceptance of a power hungry, 'here to get the job done' type of woman. With my wife in the USMC, she faces that crap all the time. If she ain't a complete btch, everyone thinks she's sucking up to the man. Course, also being honest, that's the same way with the guys. As an NCO, I was taught to be the biggest dck around, because that was considered the way leaders should be. A young man in politics has to be a complete hard-ss behind that veil of charm, else he gets walked all over. This is it. In America, you have to be that power hungry type of person to succeed in the political realm, at least on Capital Hill. Little mommas boys who can't debate their way out of the bathroom aren't going to make it past the front door. It takes balls and fierceness to make it. These attributes are perfectly acceptable in men. And supposedly so in women. But as soon as an actual strong woman steps up to the plate capable of this, she's a btch. You know I'm only half paying attention to this because I'm trying to get some work done, but I'm alittle shocked at what I'm seeing. The picking apart of every statement - Chainsaw? I'm pretty reasonable and I try to have moderated views, believe it or not. But some of the comments you guys are making seem just like the gut wrench reactions most guys in America are programmed to have when faced with any topics related to feminism. I mean I'm trying really hard to not do this, but I can't seem to avoid hearing the word b*tch being directed at me for writing this all. P.S. Michael I saw your list. See my first comment. I'm only talking about the U.S. I don't think this is really an issue in Europe, etc.
Sodium Phosphate Gallente Killer Koalas Kingdom of Butan	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:19:00 - [32] Originally by: Amandin Adouin Why are all the talkers, the political junkies, the alphas in so many of my groups of friends male? You may not have said it, but you asked it. Honestly, what do you consider an exception? 10%, 20%? I'm sorry if the feminism comment was an insult, I didn't know being a feminist is a shameful thing to be. Honestly I'd like you to cite your sources for the statistical glass ceiling. Its easy to build an argument saying that since I'm not a women that I don't see it. But I do see how my mother does in the workforce, you say you do well, I know my mother has female co-workers that make a couple hundred grand a year at Dell. TBH, you make it sound like men activly think that "Oh she is a women, she can't possibly be better at this job then a man [insert random stereotypical male posturing here], so I'll just give Bob the promotion". Yeah stereotypes do exist, but its why they exist which makes them wrong or right. Are most women not in engineering fields because they want to study something else? Or is it because they are raised under the belief that a women can't make it into the engineering field because its a male dominated profession? and no, no nerves were hit, I just feel like having a fun little discussion, hoping the police state that the mods have here won't bring the whack of the delete bat.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:24:00 - [33] Originally by: Amandin Adouin But some of the comments you guys ... And what do you mean by this, hmm!?! You guys, just assuming that every replying HAS to be a guy, hmm!?! Okay, bullsht bad jokes aside. No, your not being a btch, any more than any person who disagrees with me is automatically an sshole for doing so. Personally, I think a lot of our top politicians are people I wouldn't want to live next to me, they are so corrupt and power hungry. ANY system built and designed by man, be it a government, a religion, an organization or the frigging Boy Scouts, is going to draw those 'evil' individuals who seek to use the efforts of others for personal gain. Well, these people ain't exactly evil in my book, but that level of self-centerdness, when applied to millions of followers, means that the people who WANT to lead you aren't usually the people you want to lead. The flip side of this, is that anybody with any experience realizes that leading SUCKS and is a complete mindjob, and would rather leave it up to those who are crazy enough to want to do it. Thus, you have the primary reason why no governing system, be it America's republic or China's communist state, is free of power hungry and conniving btches and ssholes. You can safely assume that anyone who has the gumption to run for president or chancellor or whatever your nation calls it, is going to be a btch or an sshole. The only real dilemma is deciding whether you can stomach them for the duration of their term. And when you ask me that about Hillary, my answer is 'No.' Originally by:* CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:28:00 - [34] And she sidesteps Palin again. I sense the hillary support is strong in this one. I also noticed you didn't take up the presidents I mentioned which tells me you don't want to admit that your wrong in the fact that male politicians get called out as well.
Rawrior Gallente Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:29:00 - [35] well.. linkage there.. _____ TEH FORUM POLICE!!1!11!@2!
Father Weebles Celestial Refraction	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:33:00 - [36] Edited by: Father Weebles on 03/09/2008 20:34:30 Originally by: Ruze Of course, not that I'd trust an atheist, either. An agnostic, maybe, but not someone who outright refuses to accept the presence of a higher being. Uh, atheists do not believe there is evidence to suggest a higher being. We don't actively refuse to believe, but it would indeed take a hell of a lot of evidence for me to believe in one, something that nobody on this planet can put forth. Faith isn't evidence. "You leave anything for us?" "Just bodies."
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Trinity Council	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:36:00 - [37] Originally by: Kyanzes Edited by: Kyanzes on 03/09/2008 17:38:01 With women in power we would have: - hideous wars without end - sudden changes in politics, probably on a week-by-week basis - fights would occur every day in the parliament - decrees would be enacted out of emotional discharge - p0rn would be abolished (OMG, already a cause not to let them into power) - women would have a week off every month with salary so true Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 "*Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer*"
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:37:00 - [38] Originally by: Rawrior well.. linkage there.. I got part way through before I couldn't stomach that anymore.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:40:00 - [39] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Originally by: Rawrior well.. linkage there.. I got part way through before I couldn't stomach that anymore. It's people like that who make being a guy such a 'horrible' thing. I'm a guy. Not exactly proud of it, considering all I had to do was be born, but I like it. But this guy is awful. Originally by: CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:40:00 - [40] Originally by: Ruze Originally by: Amandin Adouin Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 03/09/2008 17:39:52 I don't think America is ready for women to be in charge yet... strong women are still considered bitches here (like Hillary). Even though the guys will never admit it or even realize they think this way. I'm sure I'll get some colorful responses to this one. Come on, prove me wrong ;) I think Europe's ready though. How many European countries have female leaders now? I know Finland does :) This opinion does not necessarily reflect all male viewpoints; certain restrictions apply. There are as many intelligent, thoughtful and dedicated women in the world as men. But no matter how you paint it, Hillary is a b*tch. There's nothing wrong with a woman president or VP or anything, but I wouldn't vote for Hillary just to have a woman in office. I wouldn't vote for Hillary if she was a guy, or if all the choices were women, or if she was the only female allowed to run for president for the next century. You shouldn't capitulate the leadership of a country over something as trivial as race or sex. That being said, I've read many reports that state that American men and women still picture the president as a 'father figure', and this leads to us voting for that type of individual. Thank you! I thought I was the only person who thought that in this day and age. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:40:00 - [41] Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 03/09/2008 20:44:29 Originally by: Sodium Phosphate Originally by: Amandin Adouin Why are all the talkers, the political junkies, the alphas in so many of my groups of friends male? You may not have said it, but you asked it. Honestly, what do you consider an exception? 10%, 20%? I'm sorry if the feminism comment was an insult, I didn't know being a feminist is a shameful thing to be. Honestly I'd like you to cite your sources for the statistical glass ceiling. Its easy to build an argument saying that since I'm not a women that I don't see it. But I do see how my mother does in the workforce, you say you do well, I know my mother has female co-workers that make a couple hundred grand a year at Dell. TBH, you make it sound like men activly think that "Oh she is a women, she can't possibly be better at this job then a man [insert random stereotypical male posturing here], so I'll just give Bob the promotion". Yeah stereotypes do exist, but its why they exist which makes them wrong or right. Are most women not in engineering fields because they want to study something else? Or is it because they are raised under the belief that a women can't make it into the engineering field because its a male dominated profession? and no, no nerves were hit, I just feel like having a fun little discussion, hoping the police state that the mods have here won't bring the whack of the delete bat. Haha okay. I'm just having fun here also, while frantically trying to write a marketing report. It was the way you said the 'well you sure do sound like a feminist' bit. I guess I took it the wrong way. Although honestly, I wouldn't want to be called a feminist. We live in a country of extremes and there's two sides to every coin. While it may have been a very noble movement historically, with womens' suffrage and all, our specific brand of modern day feminism tends to be a bit too extreme for my tastes. It speaks to me of angry lesbians, honestly . I work in research, it'll take me some time to dig up a source over here that I'll feel comfortable citing. But I've seen research on this, I will dig up some data on it. And thanks for the moderacy and common sense in your comments Ruze... We're actually probably coming from pretty similar places. I picked up this torch for some reason today, and now I have to see it through ;) Michael, Michael, Michael. Palin is a joke. She's being carried on the strong backing of McCain, simply because she's a woman. Dude, she only got picked to win McCain the election. I know this sounds like I'm not making sense here, but hear me out. Palin would not have/could not have made it to the White House on her own. (And she still won't, even with McCain - I'll bet money on it). Not only, does she not have it in her cohones-wise, but she's NOT qualified. She's a ***ing stay at a home mom moonlighting as a governor of our least populated state. (Again, nothing at all wrong with stay at home moms). But because of the weird dynamics of this election - good old boy going out with the establishment that brought him in, and black man coming in with a new plan for the country (minus that btch Hillary ), I was actually expecting McCain to pick a woman. It's a weird, bizarre time. But we're talking about different things here Michael. I'm not saying a woman couldn't manage to finagle her way into the White House somehow, riding the coat-tails of a man. I'm saying I doubt she could make it in there on her own right now, being the btch you have to be the make it on Capital Hill. Does that make sense? Because she would be considered a btch for acting the way she would have to just to get to be President of this country. But acting this way would be swallowed a lot easier if it was a man doing so.
Sodium Phosphate Gallente Killer Koalas Kingdom of Butan	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:43:00 - [42] Originally by: Rawrior well.. linkage there.. I don't know if he is serious or not. Honestly I don't know to punch the guy or laugh.
Ademaro Imre Caldari Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:47:00 - [43] Originally by: Jacob Mei Originally by: Ruze That being said, I've read many reports that state that American men and women still picture the president as a 'father figure', and this leads to us voting for that type of individual. Thank you! I thought I was the only person who thought that in this day and age. Reading reports and being in America are, extremely different things. Bush - A Father Figure? Bill Clinton, a father figure? The aim of politics is to keep the populace alarmed and clamorous to be saved by menacing it with imaginary hobgoblins. The urge to save humanity is a false front for the urge to rule it.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:48:00 - [44] Originally by: Sodium Phosphate Originally by: Rawrior well.. linkage there.. I don't know if he is serious or not. Honestly I don't know to punch the guy or laugh. Oh he's serious. Watch the Dr. Phil vid. Funny as hell, but having said that I wouldn't be able to stick around him for more than 5 minutes before fist start flying.
Sodium Phosphate Gallente Killer Koalas Kingdom of Butan	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:48:00 - [45] Originally by: Amandin Adouin Although honestly, I wouldn't want to be called a feminist. We live in a country of extremes and there's two sides to every coin. While it may have been a very noble movement historically, with womens' suffrage and all, our specific brand of modern day feminism tends to be a bit too extreme for my tastes. It speaks to me of angry lesbians, honestly QFT, although I disagree on the Palin bit. As I've said before, I hope McCain keels over just so we can have Palin in the oval office.
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:52:00 - [46] Originally by: Ademaro Imre Originally by: Jacob Mei Originally by: Ruze That being said, I've read many reports that state that American men and women still picture the president as a 'father figure', and this leads to us voting for that type of individual. Thank you! I thought I was the only person who thought that in this day and age. Reading reports and being in America are, extremely different things. Bush - A Father Figure? Bill Clinton, a father figure? How they appear to be when running and how they act while in office are two very diffrent things. In any case I was refering to everything else he said, not just that little tidbit. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:57:00 - [47] Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 03/09/2008 21:02:09 I was a McCain supporter until he picked her. Funny, huh? I was pushing to get him elected back in 2004 (over Bush). She's not qualified and she's way too conservative. Anyone citing her as a reason for why the American political system isn't misogynistic is kidding themselves. She's only being pulled in on the coat tails of McCain. It's actually embarrasing. To me she doesn't represent a step forward but ten steps back. The fact that she has female chemistry really should mean nothing at all - it shouldn't be a detractor or selling point.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:06:00 - [48] Originally by: Amandin Adouin Block of text So what your saying is that you choose a woman who used some of the dirtiest tricks in the book to outrightly attack her competitor, including race and religion cards, then smiles and clings to the same mans back still groping for that moment after if takes her several weeks to admit defeat and who also has deep financial problems of her own to run this country. She supported the war when the bill came up, then she opposed it in view of supporters. She lied about being under sniper fire in Bosnia. Then theres Whitewater and Travelgate She is smart, I'll give that. I'll also give her evil, vindictive, and manipulative. And She's already had 4 years.
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:08:00 - [49] Originally by: Amandin Adouin Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 03/09/2008 21:02:09 I was a McCain supporter until he picked her. Funny, huh? I was pushing to get him elected back in 2004 (over Bush). She's not qualified and she's way too conservative. Anyone citing her as a reason for why the American political system isn't misogynistic is kidding themselves. She's only being pulled in on the coat tails of McCain. It's actually embarrasing. To me she doesn't represent a step forward but ten steps back. The fact that she has female chemistry really should mean nothing at all - it shouldn't be a detractor or selling point. Problem is though Obama is someone who hasnt completed a full term in any office and his running mate has 30 years experience. What happens when the leader of a country is a green horn and his vice could likely run the country better than him?
Sodium Phosphate Gallente Killer Koalas Kingdom of Butan	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:11:00 - [50] Originally by: Amandin Adouin Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 03/09/2008 21:02:09 I was a McCain supporter until he picked her. Funny, huh? I was pushing to get him elected back in 2004 (over Bush). She's not qualified and she's way too conservative. Anyone citing her as a reason for why the American political system isn't misogynistic is kidding themselves. She's only being pulled in on the coat tails of McCain. It's actually embarrasing. To me she doesn't represent a step forward but ten steps back. The fact that she has female chemistry really should mean nothing at all - it shouldn't be a detractor or selling point. She may not be qualified, but she also doesn't seem to be corrupted by the parasite that most politicians have (can't say the same for either of the candidates unfourtunatly). And whats wrong with being too conservative? wouldn't mind hearing something from the other side of the hedge, my father being an mild libertarian and mother a closet liberal that doesn't speak out much (I'm a college student btw, making me a liberal for some odd reason in most eyes).
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:19:00 - [51] My biggest problem with McCains VP pick is that she put into motion a program of aerial hunting of the alaskian wolves shortly after they came off the endangered spieces lists supposively to curb declining Moose populations. Im sure that because shes the VP that McCain lost the enviromentalist vote. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Sodium Phosphate Gallente Killer Koalas Kingdom of Butan	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:23:00 - [52] Edited by: Sodium Phosphate on 03/09/2008 21:23:36 Originally by: Jacob Mei My biggest problem with McCains VP pick is that she put into motion a program of aerial hunting of the alaskian wolves shortly after they came off the endangered spieces lists supposively to curb declining Moose populations. Im sure that because shes the VP that McCain lost the enviromentalist vote. Wait, wouldn't she get the environmentalist vote? I mean, she did it for the mooses. I think that is logical in an illogical way. EDIT: Idk, I've heard moose bites hurt.
Benny Hill Caldari Deceased Inc	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:23:00 - [53] Edited by: Benny Hill on 03/09/2008 21:25:32 Originally by: Amandin Adouin Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 03/09/2008 21:02:09 I was a McCain supporter until he picked her. Funny, huh? I was pushing to get him elected back in 2004 (over Bush). She's not qualified and she's way too conservative. Anyone citing her as a reason for why the American political system isn't misogynistic is kidding themselves. She's only being pulled in on the coat tails of McCain. It's actually embarrasing. To me she doesn't represent a step forward but ten steps back. The fact that she has female chemistry really should mean nothing at all - it shouldn't be a detractor or selling point. You are making posts, but you really have limited knowledge of current politics in the US. Sarah Palin did not use her husband's popularity to be a Mayor, or a commission member, or a Governor. Hillary, used her husband to be appointed to certain tasks in the whitehouse, and used his last name to run for the senate. Hillary would be nowhere without the explicit help of her husband/MAN. You can't say that about Sara Palin. McCain is now being pulled by the coattails of Sarah Palin. You refuse to acknowledge her own accomplishments, and so far - she is more qualified that both of the men opposing her combined. When it comes down to it - you just don't like her because she is a conservative, and a milf. Oh, and the woman introducing her speech tonight, is the Republican FEMALE Governor of Hawaii.
drendell	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:26:00 - [54] see Britain has gone for a different approach instead of a man or a women, we picked up a bunny rabbit and created a suit of armor for it. this suit was called Gordon brown (king of the bunnys). we recently found out however that the rabbit that was chosen was evil and was happy to sit down and eat high grade cabbage while the worlds economy fell. many of you have probably already relised that the rabbits brother Cletus lives in George bush. anyway im done with that completely pointless story and can now say this. why the two extremes the world can run with both women and men in power. and to say that men are destroyers is a stupid thing to say, remember that most conquers had a women behind the scenes pulling the levers. and if you didn't want to be oppressed and kept out of power you shouldn't of listened to that snake in Eden. (that was a joke)
Sodium Phosphate Gallente Killer Koalas Kingdom of Butan	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:26:00 - [55] Originally by: Benny Hill ....and a milf. true dat.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:30:00 - [56] Originally by: Benny Hill You are making posts, but you really have limited knowledge of current politics in the US. Sarah Palin did not use her husband's popularity to be a Mayor, or a commission member, or a Governor. Hillary, used her husband to be appointed to certain tasks in the whitehouse, and used his last name to run for the senate. Hillary would be nowhere without the explicit help of her husband/MAN. You can't say that about Sara Palin. McCain is now being pulled by the coattails of Sarah Palin. You refuse to acknowledge her own accomplishments, and so far - she is more qualified that both of the men opposing her combined. When it comes down to it - you just don't like her because she is a conservative, and a milf. Oh, and the woman introducing her speech tonight, is the Republican FEMALE Governor of Hawaii. Sarah Palins husband is awesome, he's a blue collared snowmobiling sophisticated redneck. I'd love to meet that guy some day.
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:31:00 - [57] Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 03/09/2008 21:33:10 Originally by: Benny Hill ... I really don't want to turn this into a flat out political thread and get it locked. I am very much aware of the current political landscape; you're the one who doesn't understand the whole point of this discussion. Let's bring this full circle back to the OP, a woman being in charge wouldn't automatically make anything better. How a person does, while in power, would depend entirely on the person, male or female. I think they need to earn their position and they need to be qualified for it. I think they should be tempered with moderation to lead (especially to lead the last great superpower) (which I don't think Palin is). I think both McCain and Obama would do fine, as they both have years of experience on Capitol Hill and they both show the wisdom I think is needed. Edit: I hope you're enjoying your popcorn Isis, if you're reading this ;)
Taua Roqa Minmatar Groping Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:31:00 - [58] what about all those backwards muslim nations?
xVALERIAx Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:32:00 - [59] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Cristina Fernßndez de Kirchner - President of Argentina Pratibha Patil - President of India Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf - Member of Federal council of Switzerland Nino Burjanadze - acting president of Georgia until early this year Doris Leuthard - Member of Federal council of Switzerland Michelle Bachelet - President of Chile Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf - President of Liberia Sarah Palin - Mccains VP nominee. admittedly not current but, Margaret Thatcher - prime minister UK - 11 years
Bistot Kid The First Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:34:00 - [60] You've already voted for two Bushes, what's wrong with a third? -------------------- What? Me Worry? --------------------
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:37:00 - [61] Edited by: Micheal Dietrich on 03/09/2008 21:37:46 Originally by: xVALERIAx Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Cristina Fernßndez de Kirchner - President of Argentina Pratibha Patil - President of India Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf - Member of Federal council of Switzerland Nino Burjanadze - acting president of Georgia until early this year Doris Leuthard - Member of Federal council of Switzerland Michelle Bachelet - President of Chile Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf - President of Liberia Sarah Palin - Mccains VP nominee. admittedly not current but, Margaret Thatcher - prime minister UK - 11 years Yeah I only pulled in like the last few years. Theres actually like a whole page of names dating back to the 90's. Just wanted a list to show that they are out there.
Bistot Kid The First Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:39:00 - [62] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Nino Burjanadze - acting president of Georgia until early this year Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf - President of Liberia Just wanted a list to show that they are out there. ... and look how well both of those countries are going! -------------------- What? Me Worry? --------------------
drendell	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:40:00 - [63] Originally by: Bistot Kid Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Nino Burjanadze - acting president of Georgia until early this year Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf - President of Liberia Just wanted a list to show that they are out there. ... and look how well both of those countries are going! lmao
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:41:00 - [64] Edited by: Micheal Dietrich on 03/09/2008 21:41:22 Originally by: Bistot Kid Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Nino Burjanadze - acting president of Georgia until early this year Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf - President of Liberia Just wanted a list to show that they are out there. ... and look how well both of those countries are going! Well I don't know about Liberia but Georgia's incident can't be put on her, theres kind of a 8 month gap between the presidency and the war.
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:52:00 - [65] Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 03/09/2008 21:53:44 My mom got to meet the President of Finland, Tarja Hallonen last year at Finn Fest. She ran up to her yelling "Hi Tarja!" I was so mortified. That's just not how you treat a President for god's sake . Even one who looks like Conan O'Brian. I needed to interject some more lightness into this thread .
Fink Angel Caldari The Merry Men	Posted - 2008.09.03 22:01:00 - [66] Originally by: Amandin Adouin My mom got to meet the President of Finland, Tarja Hallonen last year at Finn Fest. On first scan, I somehow read that as "My mom got married to the President of Finland, Tarja Hallonen last year at Finn Fest." !
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.09.03 22:02:00 - [67] Originally by: Fink Angel Originally by: Amandin Adouin My mom got to meet the President of Finland, Tarja Hallonen last year at Finn Fest. On first scan, I somehow read that as "My mom got married to the President of Finland, Tarja Hallonen last year at Finn Fest." ! Now THAT'S a party
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.03 22:05:00 - [68] My two mom's! Aww that would be great... until the Russians invaded.
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2008.09.03 22:11:00 - [69] Some of the most violent and aggressive people I've known were women. The main difference was they got their male subordinants/friends to do the physical violence instead of doing it themselves. However, they had zero problems being utterly cutthroat and vicious business competitors ob their own. Women are NOT inherently nice or gently, anymore than men are inherently evil pr1cks. Temperament isn't gender based... it's a mix of social conditions and personal genetics.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.03 22:19:00 - [70] Originally by: Taua Roqa what about all those backwards muslim nations? And why do you consider them 'backwards'? Maybe they are going in the right direction, and it's the western nations that are backwards? Originally by: CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.09.03 22:28:00 - [71] Originally by: Ruze Originally by: Taua Roqa what about all those backwards muslim nations? And why do you consider them 'backwards'? Maybe they are going in the right direction, and it's the western nations that are backwards? Based on what, what have fundamentalist muslim nations done to improve the lives of their citizens? These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
goodby4u Valor Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.03 22:34:00 - [72] Men create too. Women destroy too. To be honest ive had both of them as bosses before, and between the two 9 times out of 10 a woman makes me want to kill myself and the man is fine to annoying(still nowhere near as bad as a woman). Why? Well there is a mental difference between the two(this is when I say"most"there are exceptions), when a man doesnt like you and he can, he will most likely tell you about it in a direct manner, and if you disrespect him he will also tend to this in a direct manner, whereas a woman would usually fight you in an indirect manner and instead of just hurting your face for a week, your friends now hate you instead.... To be honest the direct method is better in my oppinion. Now on the side of leadership(this will fall under the"most"catagory), men normally make judgement based on achievement, logic, and to a small degree feelings... Whereas a woman would make judgement based on personal security, feelings, and logic to a small degree.... And between the two I would trust a man to make decisions better. In closing I would like the stress that im all for equal rights, however im not for making woman be incharge because"men destroy and woman create".
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.03 22:45:00 - [73] Quote: In closing I would like the stress that im all for equal rights... Quote: ...Now on the side of leadership(this will fall under the"most"catagory), men normally make judgement based on achievement, logic, and to a small degree feelings... Whereas a woman would make judgement based on personal security, feelings, and logic to a small degree.... And between the two I would trust a man to make decisions better. Wait, why am I laughing? Oh yeah, because I'm all about emotion, logic only plays a small degree into it all.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.03 22:52:00 - [74] Originally by: Wendat Huron Originally by: Ruze Originally by: Taua Roqa what about all those backwards muslim nations? And why do you consider them 'backwards'? Maybe they are going in the right direction, and it's the western nations that are backwards? Based on what, what have fundamentalist muslim nations done to improve the lives of their citizens? Considering that fundamentalist Muslim nations are the reason we have modern medicine and the approach of many surgical techniques, including the basis of brain surgery? While our crusading fanatical fundamentalist ancestors were killing millions and reducing entire societies to dust, Muslims were practicing many forms of scientific research and medicine. That is, of course, until the western world killed those blasphemous heathens and their evil ways. Only to 'discover' these things for themselves two hundred years later. Hmm. It could also be something that just bothers me, you know? Like how in the third surah of the Quran, it clearly states that every good Muslim awaits the return of Christ, and is required to know the Bible as well as the Quran? I love how we can justify our superiority over people whom our ancestors helped put in the situation they are in now. The wars over Isreal are happening because of the arrogance of nations such as America, Britain and France, where we TOOK the land from other nations, and gave it to another people entirely. If it was such a nice and noble thing for us to have done, why didn't America give part of our OWN territory to become Isreal? Why did we feel the need to take from others? Sorry. I've just sat through one ignorant sermon and religious debate too many with a lot of false lies about the Muslim people. And last I checked, morality was not a universal law. Different cultures have different belief's of what is right and what is wrong. In many cultures around the world, our western ideals of parenting are looked at as perverse and 'backward', specifically the belief that a parent should have full control over their offsprings life. But you asked about the contributions of the Muslim world. I would like to know, what has America contributed in the last 50 years beyond sticking our noses in the affairs of countries which we have no rights over? Where do we get the ARROGANCE to rule over everyone else? Originally by: CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
goodby4u Valor Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.03 22:53:00 - [75] Originally by: Amandin Adouin Quote: In closing I would like the stress that im all for equal rights... Quote: ...Now on the side of leadership(this will fall under the"most"catagory), men normally make judgement based on achievement, logic, and to a small degree feelings... Whereas a woman would make judgement based on personal security, feelings, and logic to a small degree.... And between the two I would trust a man to make decisions better. Wait, why am I laughing? Oh yeah, because I'm all about emotion, logic only plays a small degree into it all. Well ive had 5 jobs before, 3 of which had woman incharge.... And all three based their decisions almost entirely on emotion. Ive had 3 girlfriends, 2 of them based their choices on their emotions. When I was young, my mother based her decisions on emotions. Appearently you didnt read the part where I said most? Sidenote:Most people on this forum will say we are very close to being animals ourselves, few things seperate us, and in the jungle times the men were the leaders and hunter gatherers.... So if we arent that far from the jungle as a people why would our hardwiring be any different?.... Im not saying all women need to be in the house, but from what ive seen they are far from better then men.
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.09.03 22:58:00 - [76] Originally by: Ruze Originally by: Wendat Huron Originally by: Ruze Originally by: Taua Roqa what about all those backwards muslim nations? And why do you consider them 'backwards'? Maybe they are going in the right direction, and it's the western nations that are backwards? Based on what, what have fundamentalist muslim nations done to improve the lives of their citizens? Considering that fundamentalist Muslim nations are the reason we have modern medicine and the approach of many surgical techniques, including the basis of brain surgery? While our crusading fanatical fundamentalist ancestors were killing millions and reducing entire societies to dust, Muslims were practicing many forms of scientific research and medicine. That is, of course, until the western world killed those blasphemous heathens and their evil ways. Only to 'discover' these things for themselves two hundred years later. Hmm. It could also be something that just bothers me, you know? Like how in the third surah of the Quran, it clearly states that every good Muslim awaits the return of Christ, and is required to know the Bible as well as the Quran? I love how we can justify our superiority over people whom our ancestors helped put in the situation they are in now. The wars over Isreal are happening because of the arrogance of nations such as America, Britain and France, where we TOOK the land from other nations, and gave it to another people entirely. If it was such a nice and noble thing for us to have done, why didn't America give part of our OWN territory to become Isreal? Why did we feel the need to take from others? Sorry. I've just sat through one ignorant sermon and religious debate too many with a lot of false lies about the Muslim people. And last I checked, morality was not a universal law. Different cultures have different belief's of what is right and what is wrong. In many cultures around the world, our western ideals of parenting are looked at as perverse and 'backward', specifically the belief that a parent should have full control over their offsprings life. But you asked about the contributions of the Muslim world. I would like to know, what has America contributed in the last 50 years beyond sticking our noses in the affairs of countries which we have no rights over? Where do we get the ARROGANCE to rule over everyone else? Operative word here being were. Those days are long gone. These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.03 23:03:00 - [77] Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 03/09/2008 23:06:31 Originally by: Ruze ...stuff about Arabs... <3 I agree, let's give the Palestinians back their country and let's give the Israelis Texas ;) Originally by: goodby4u ...cavemanic rumbling... No one is saying women are better than men. Or wait. Were they? Are they? Hmmm... Anyway, Goody, I won't say that men and women are different. We are definately hard-wired differently, and women have to deal with alot more hormones and chemicals coursing through their bodies on a daily basis. But your comment about trusting a man to make decisions more than a woman was so insanely backward that I'm awestruck. Women are just as logical as men, and they bring a different type of wisdom to the table. I can't convince you of that, I know, but I do encourage you to revisit your views on this and think about them long and hard, as I think you'll find life quite a bit more enjoyable if you don't think of women as some kind of emotional basketcases incapable of logic and undeserving of trust .
goodby4u Valor Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.03 23:06:00 - [78] Originally by: Amandin Adouin Originally by: Ruze ... <3 I agree, let's give the Palestinians back their country and lets' give the Israeli's Texas ;) Originally by: goodby4u ... No one is saying women are better than men. Or wait. Were they? Are they? Hmmm... Anyway, Goody, I won't say that men and women are different. We are definately hard-wired differently, and women have to deal with alot more hormones and chemicals coursing through their bodies on a daily basis. But your comment about trusting a man to make decisions more than a woman was so insanely backward that I'm awestruck. Women are just as logical as men, and they bring a different type of wisdom to the table. I can't convince you of that, I know, but I do encourage you to revisit your views on this and think about them long and hard, as I thik you'll life life quite a bit more enjoyable if you don't think of women as some kind of emotional basket cases incapable of logic . Read what the op posted, he was saying that men only destroy woman only create... Meh maybe im unlucky or *****y women just like me, but thats what ive seen from my personal experience and until I find a larger demographic thats what im going to believe.(btw demographic probably wont be the right word).
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.03 23:06:00 - [79] Originally by: Wendat Huron Operative word here being were. Those days are long gone. I'm not so sure about that. The missile and missile defense technology coming out of Iran right now is pretty powerful. It's funny, too, because only in the States to they deliberately underplay the technological breakthroughs that the Irani's are making. Watch BBC, or read any of the foriegn newsgroups online, and you can see a definite contradiction with the 'selective reporting' of our own media machine. Man, we're really ignorant of national affairs, and that's by choice. We think of Iraq and Afghanistan as 3rd world countries (which of course they are, but this is as much the fault of our own attacks in those nations as the nations growth). We see every 'fundamintalist muslim nation' as wife beaters and jihadist. Weird too, because we get **ed when other nations make us sound like crazy gun-toting Texans. We're willing to accept any stereotype of other nations, but get up in arms when we are stereotyped ourselves. Originally by:** CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.09.03 23:11:00 - [80] Originally by: goodby4u Now on the side of leadership(this will fall under the"most"catagory), men normally make judgement based on achievement, logic, and to a small degree feelings... Whereas a woman would make judgement based on personal security, feelings, and logic to a small degree.... And between the two I would trust a man to make decisions better Way too much generalisation there imo. How do you know how women make decisions? What makes your judgements any more logical? Yes, women express their emotions more but that dosen't mean they feel any more or less than you do. It's just the way we're brought up and the norms in our society (men get laughed at for showing emotions, but for women its normal) I could do the same, and say that most Male thought process is based on Ego/Pride above all else, but it would be just another stereotype. IMO the only actual difference is men tend to be physically stronger, and in the days where that mattered it gave them some kind of god-given power over women which is still stuck in a lot of people's heads today and is why, in a lot of cultures, men are still expected to be the dominant, enduring ones and women are still treated like needy, incompetant children destined to stay at home all day and cook. We're the same in our heads. It's just the way we're brought up. - Infectious -
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.03 23:16:00 - [81] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Way too much generalisation there imo. How do you know how women make decisions? What makes your judgements any more logical? Yes, women express their emotions more but that dosen't mean they feel any more or less than you do. It's just the way we're brought up and the norms in our society (men get laughed at for showing emotions, but for women its normal) I could do the same, and say that most Male thought process is based on Ego/Pride above all else, but it would be just another stereotype. IMO the only actual difference is men tend to be physically stronger, and in the days where that mattered it gave them some kind of god-given power over women which is still stuck in a lot of people's heads today and is why, in a lot of cultures, men are still expected to be the dominant, enduring ones and women are still treated like needy, incompetant children destined to stay at home all day and cook. We're the same in our heads. It's just the way we're brought up. I always felt the same way you do Christina, and I still do for the most part. The only other thing I've learned - from my TG friend - is that the chemistry does play a small role in it also. I won't get into it, but suffice it to say that she actually found herself thinking differently after she started hormones. But yeah, for the most part, the only real difference between the sexes is how society treats them/how we're raised to act, and this all dates to pre-historic biological differences.
goodby4u Valor Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.03 23:20:00 - [82] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: goodby4u Now on the side of leadership(this will fall under the"most"catagory), men normally make judgement based on achievement, logic, and to a small degree feelings... Whereas a woman would make judgement based on personal security, feelings, and logic to a small degree.... And between the two I would trust a man to make decisions better Way too much generalisation there imo. How do you know how women make decisions? What makes your judgements any more logical? Yes, women express their emotions more but that dosen't mean they feel any more or less than you do. It's just the way we're brought up and the norms in our society (men get laughed at for showing emotions, but for women its normal) I could do the same, and say that most Male thought process is based on Ego/Pride above all else, but it would be just another stereotype. IMO the only actual difference is men tend to be physically stronger, and in the days where that mattered it gave them some kind of god-given power over women which is still stuck in a lot of people's heads today and is why, in a lot of cultures, men are still expected to be the dominant, enduring ones and women are still treated like needy, incompetant children destined to stay at home all day and cook. We're the same in our heads. It's just the way we're brought up. I would explain further but that would be getting way too personal, but lets just say, emotions and rash decisions on my bosses part 4tl. You could say that, but like I said before, men were hardwired from the jungle to believe they are the leaders/protectors/hunter gatherers(probably because of the 20% more muscle mass and larger overall size)and if you are one of the many on these forums that believes we arent far from the jungle then.... Fun fact: whenever most people think of a leader they think of a tall strong individual, reason being is in "pack behaviour"the alpha is the strongest and most tactically minded individual. So anyways back on subject, maybe it was too generalised, but so was"MAN DESTROY WOMAN MAKE".
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.03 23:23:00 - [83] You basically just quoted Christina. You know that's what she was basically saying right?
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.09.03 23:25:00 - [84] Originally by: Sodium Phosphate Edited by: Sodium Phosphate on 03/09/2008 21:23:36 Originally by: Jacob Mei My biggest problem with McCains VP pick is that she put into motion a program of aerial hunting of the alaskian wolves shortly after they came off the endangered spieces lists supposively to curb declining Moose populations. Im sure that because shes the VP that McCain lost the enviromentalist vote. Wait, wouldn't she get the environmentalist vote? I mean, she did it for the mooses. I think that is logical in an illogical way. EDIT: Idk, I've heard moose bites hurt. To be blunt, anyone who thinks arieal hunting is okay or supports it needs to have the practice done to them. I am by no means an enviromentalist but reading how the practice is done is plain sick and reminds me of the buffalo trains. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
goodby4u Valor Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.03 23:25:00 - [85] Edited by: goodby4u on 03/09/2008 23:25:57 Originally by: Amandin Adouin You basically just quoted Christina. You know that's what she was basically saying right? Yup, sadly ive since stopped caring about this conversation and am just quoting myself in different ways. /me is watching death race and its really REALLY cool.
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.03 23:29:00 - [86] Originally by: Jacob Mei To be blunt, anyone who thinks arieal hunting is okay or supports it needs to have the practice done to them. I am by no means an enviromentalist but reading how the practice is done is plain sick and reminds me of the buffalo trains. Agreed.
Spaztick Canadian Imperial Armaments EVESpace	Posted - 2008.09.03 23:35:00 - [87] A loaded topic on OOPE? Unthinkable! But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post.
nahtoh Caldari StrikerCorp	Posted - 2008.09.04 00:04:00 - [88] Originally by: Amandin Adouin Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 03/09/2008 22:51:14 Quote: In closing I would like the stress that im all for equal rights... Quote: ...Now on the side of leadership(this will fall under the"most"catagory), men normally make judgement based on achievement, logic, and to a small degree feelings... Whereas a woman would make judgement based on personal security, feelings, and logic to a small degree.... And between the two I would trust a man to make decisions better. Wait, why am I laughing? Oh yeah, because I'm all about emotion, logic only plays a small degree into it all. I really don't want to say anything mean. Because, well if you just actually said that, you're probably 12. Ive seen it happen, department i used to work in where prevously the best person got the job that needed doing, *** from hell got a sideways promotion and then everything turned into a pile of shit as she would then give all the things that needed doing to her little group of wits...she was **ing spineless as well... Turned a smoothly fuctioning department into a warring snake pit in about 4 to 6 months (and she seemed to take a real dislike to the other females in the department if they did not function in same way she did). But you will probably just label me 12 as well... Experiance has tought me that in the manager stakes females are more likely to be at both ends of the curve. One of the best managers I have had was female, but most of the worst are also female, most males are about average. In passing I have as politley as possable ripped a customer a new one for refusing to deal with a female tech, just because she was female. ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.04 00:32:00 - [89] Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 04/09/2008 00:33:05 Originally by: nahtoh Ive seen it happen, department i used to work in where prevously the best person got the job that needed doing, *** from hell got a sideways promotion and then everything turned into a pile of shit as she would then give all the things that needed doing to her little group of wits...she was **ing spineless as well... Turned a smoothly fuctioning department into a warring snake pit in about 4 to 6 months (and she seemed to take a real dislike to the other females in the department if they did not function in same way she did). Experiance has tought me that in the manager stakes females are more likely to be at both ends of the curve. One of the best managers I have had was female, but most of the worst are also female, most males are about average. In passing I have as politley as possable ripped a customer a new one for refusing to deal with a female tech, just because she was female. But you will probably just label me 12 as well... Nah, you're 13 ;) Honestly you'd be hard pressed to find me insulting someone who gave a reasonable, well thought argument, no matter the topic. As long it's not, nyah nyah girlz are emotional so they can't be trusted to make decisions . I've honestly had worse experiences at my job working with the female than the man. But, everyone's different. We all bring something to the table - sometimes different and sometimes quite similar. I think the only important thing is to judge someone on their own merits, not on their [insert whatever disriminating factor here]... whether it "helps" them or hurts them.
Sharupak Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.09.04 00:34:00 - [90] Originally by: CCP Saint My female intuition is telling me this thread is heading in a sketchy direction. Lets not let it get there... _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Sharupak Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.09.04 00:37:00 - [91] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: goodby4u Now on the side of leadership(this will fall under the"most"catagory), men normally make judgement based on achievement, logic, and to a small degree feelings... Whereas a woman would make judgement based on personal security, feelings, and logic to a small degree.... And between the two I would trust a man to make decisions better Way too much generalisation there imo. How do you know how women make decisions? What makes your judgements any more logical? Yes, women express their emotions more but that dosen't mean they feel any more or less than you do. It's just the way we're brought up and the norms in our society (men get laughed at for showing emotions, but for women its normal) I could do the same, and say that most Male thought process is based on Ego/Pride above all else, but it would be just another stereotype. IMO the only actual difference is men tend to be physically stronger, and in the days where that mattered it gave them some kind of god-given power over women which is still stuck in a lot of people's heads today and is why, in a lot of cultures, men are still expected to be the dominant, enduring ones and women are still treated like needy, incompetant children destined to stay at home all day and cook. We're the same in our heads. It's just the way we're brought up. I thought this thread was going to be completely worthless. Good post _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Sharupak Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.09.04 00:42:00 - [92] If women were in power, nothing would change. It has nothing to do with sex but has to do with governmental structure and the personalities it attracts. If tomorrow it became cosmic law that only women would rule, we would be *****ing about our politicians selling out for money, power, and war. destruction and threats come from the "human psyche" of fear. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.04 00:52:00 - [93] Originally by: Sharupak If women were in power, nothing would change. It has nothing to do with sex but has to do with governmental structure and the personalities it attracts. If tomorrow it became cosmic law that only women would rule, we would be *****ing about our politicians selling out for money, power, and war. destruction and threats come from the "human psyche" of fear. That's what the actual females in this thread have been saying all along .
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Enterprises	Posted - 2008.09.04 01:08:00 - [94] "the female of the species is more dangerous than the man" always ALWAYS ------------------------------ "whining and crying for nerfs and boosts aint' no way to go through life son!"
Sharupak Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.09.04 01:10:00 - [95] Originally by: Amandin Adouin Originally by: Sharupak If women were in power, nothing would change. It has nothing to do with sex but has to do with governmental structure and the personalities it attracts. If tomorrow it became cosmic law that only women would rule, we would be *****ing about our politicians selling out for money, power, and war. destruction and threats come from the "human psyche" of fear. That's what the actual females in this thread have been saying all along . Sorry, I saw the first few posts blacked out then saw rawr's post and then decided to post my opinion. Must have been an IQ survival mechanism kicking off. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.04 01:17:00 - [96] WOMEN: Know your LIMITS! Proper Limits Proper Virtue Driving nuff said.... Play nice while you butcher each other.
Chaosgabe TWC	Posted - 2008.09.04 01:33:00 - [97] And noone mentioned Angela Merkel yet, the Chancellor of Germany. I wonder why . . .
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2008.09.04 02:06:00 - [98] Originally by: Ruze Originally by: Taua Roqa what about all those backwards muslim nations? And why do you consider them 'backwards'? Maybe they are going in the right direction, and it's the western nations that are backwards? Having religious leaders and god-given laws = backwards, whether muslim or christian ... How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2008.09.04 02:12:00 - [99] Originally by: JAQUE ALERA I've been thinking about this today. Why not give them a shot? Because they don't want to be put in charge and they don't want to vote for women. The majority of people in Europe are women, why do they vote for men? I guess even women think it's a bad idea to put women in charge. :-/ How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
nahtoh Caldari StrikerCorp	Posted - 2008.09.04 02:42:00 - [100] Originally by: Amandin Adouin Nah, you're 13 ;) Honestly you'd be hard pressed to find me insulting someone who gave a reasonable, well thought argument, no matter the topic. As long it's not, nyah nyah girlz are emotional so they can't be trusted to make decisions . I've honestly had worse experiences at my job working with the female than the man. But, everyone's different. We all bring something to the table - sometimes different and sometimes quite similar. I think the only important thing is to judge someone on their own merits, not on their [insert whatever disriminating factor here]... whether it "helps" them or hurts them. Nah I don't generally give a shit about gender, race or creed...as long as they don't personally **** me off. In a work situation the only thing i really care about is being able to do the job in question. ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach	Posted - 2008.09.04 04:03:00 - [101] Originally by: Fink Angel Forget male / female, just don't allow religious people to be in charge. That will fix most things. If I had gotten back here sooner I would have given this the /thread stamp, but I guess I am too late Slade Originally by: Crumplecorn NerfBat is now known as the WaveMachine. DesuSigs
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.09.04 04:58:00 - [102] Originally by: Amandin Adouin This is it. In America, you have to be that power hungry type of person to succeed in the political realm, at least on Capital Hill. Little mommas boys who can't debate their way out of the bathroom aren't going to make it past the front door. It takes balls and fierceness to make it. These attributes are perfectly acceptable in men. And supposedly so in women. But as soon as an actual strong woman steps up to the plate capable of this, she's a btch. You know I'm only half paying attention to this because I'm trying to get some work done, but I'm alittle shocked at what I'm seeing. The picking apart of every statement - Chainsaw? I'm pretty reasonable and I try to have moderated views, believe it or not. But some of the comments you guys are making seem just like the gut wrench reactions most guys in America are programmed to have when faced with any topics related to feminism. I mean I'm trying really hard to not do this, but I can't seem to avoid hearing the word btch being directed at me for writing this all. P.S. Michael I saw your list. See my first comment. I'm only talking about the U.S. I don't think this is really an issue in Europe, etc. a *** is a *** and a ho is a ho. in my experience no one seems to like Hillary except for middle aged women... really I wouldn't mind a woman in change but I haven't seen a woman I would vote for. then again I haven't gone looking. as for men my list is very damn short. w/e
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.04 05:16:00 - [103] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton in my experience no one seems to like Hillary except for middle aged women... Strange as this may sound, I think Hillary would be a fine president, and I'm quite the cave dwelling right wing nut job. I'd prefer a Reagan clone to Hillary (perhaps Palin in 2012....). In spite of the hysteria, being a student of history gives perspective. Even the bad U.S. presidents have been good. Play nice while you butcher each other.
JAQUE ALERA	Posted - 2008.09.04 06:05:00 - [104] Amandin Adouin I salute and respect your intellect and verve. Everyone listen, I use OOPE as a sounding board. I have a thought, I post, I get feedback . I respect this part of the forums for it's openness and discourse. Respect each other. Read and think. We all have our perspectives and they are formed by sometimes the most ridiculous experiences. Be open to other opinions and perhaps, just perhaps, be open to change. I do believe women are inherently more capable of providing diplomacy in times of crisis. I know men will kill/** "enemy women and children" during battle. I haven't found a historical precedence showing a group of women attacking an enemy tribe and committing atrocities on noncombatants. Wish I could say the same about men. We are in a time of unprecedented danger. Economic collapse, nuclear proliferation, disease, overpopulation, resource depletion. War is coming, I wish the male instinct to "duke it out" didn't have such deadly consequences in the time of nuclear weapons. I think a woman would hesitate to pull the final trigger. A man would pull the trigger just to show his ** was bigger.
Fink Angel Caldari The Merry Men	Posted - 2008.09.04 06:41:00 - [105] Originally by: JAQUE ALERA I haven't found a historical precedence showing a group of women attacking an enemy tribe and committing atrocities on noncombatants. Wish I could say the same about men. Boudicca led the Iceni tribe into London and sacked it, completely killing all the inhabitants. "Dio's account gives more prurient detail: that the noblest women were impaled on spikes and had their breasts cut off and sewn to their mouths." So, no, doesn't sound like she was desperately fair on the battlefield! Originally by: JAQUE ALERA I wish the male instinct to "duke it out" didn't have such deadly consequences in the time of nuclear weapons. I think a woman would hesitate to pull the final trigger. A man would pull the trigger just to show his **** was bigger. "Mutually Assured Destruction" only works when you really believe the other person with the finger on the trigger will do it. This actually keeps us safer, would you believe, than the possibility someone may try their luck as they think their opposite number won't go through with it. fx: Fink Angel pulls a gun and shouts "TURN YOUR KEY, SIR!".
JAQUE ALERA	Posted - 2008.09.04 06:48:00 - [106] Originally by: Fink Angel Originally by: JAQUE ALERA I haven't found a historical precedence showing a group of women attacking an enemy tribe and committing atrocities on noncombatants. Wish I could say the same about men. Boudicca led the Iceni tribe into London and sacked it, completely killing all the inhabitants. "Dio's account gives more prurient detail: that the noblest women were impaled on spikes and had their breasts cut off and sewn to their mouths." So, no, doesn't sound like she was desperately fair on the battlefield! Originally by: JAQUE ALERA I wish the male instinct to "duke it out" didn't have such deadly consequences in the time of nuclear weapons. I think a woman would hesitate to pull the final trigger. A man would pull the trigger just to show his ** was bigger. "Mutually Assured Destruction" only works when you really believe the other person with the finger on the trigger will do it. This actually keeps us safer, would you believe, than the possibility someone may try their luck as they think their opposite number won't go through with it. fx: Fink Angel pulls a gun and shouts "TURN YOUR KEY, SIR!". "Her husband, Prasutagus, an Icenian king who had ruled as a nominally independent ally of Rome, left his kingdom jointly to his daughters and the Roman Emperor in his will, but when he died his will was ignored, possibly because the Romans, unlike the Britons, did not recognise daughters as heirs. The kingdom was annexed as if conquered, Boudica was flogged and her daughters **d, and Roman financiers called in their loans." Sounds like a tribes revenge against injustice. I also said a group of women, not a singular women with a justifiable reason for revenge. "MAD" is exactly that, madness. My point is two women leaders squaring off with their fingers on the final trigger would look for another solution. Please read and respond with some forethought.
Falaricae	Posted - 2008.09.04 08:33:00 - [107] Originally by: JAQUE ALERA I do believe women are inherently more capable of providing diplomacy in times of crisis. I know men will kill/** "enemy women and children" during battle. I haven't found a historical precedence showing a group of women attacking an enemy tribe and committing atrocities on noncombatants. Wish I could say the same about men. We are in a time of unprecedented danger. Economic collapse, nuclear proliferation, disease, overpopulation, resource depletion. War is coming, I wish the male instinct to "duke it out" didn't have such deadly consequences in the time of nuclear weapons. I think a woman would hesitate to pull the final trigger. A man would pull the trigger just to show his was bigger. You make it sound we males would annihilate the human race just for the lulz . We do wave our (E-)peens at times, but it's all in good fun and I don't really see a problem flaunting things that you are good at or are proud of. It is good to have pride in some things. Anyone putting their pride over mass murder or not hasitating to pull the final trigger is totally **ing insane. Since we have people here more familiar with history than I am, could one of you give examples of groups of women that have fought in wars. Preferably examples where the war effort was led and fought by women. Some advice on books on the subject would also be appreciated, but any advice in what direction to look for more info is helpful.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:01:00 - [108] Currently politically correct morons believe that there are a number of aspects of life where women are superior to men. The morons even in some cases site some actual science, such as in regard to apptitude in certain communication skills. These same morons grant men, one, and ONLY one superiority: upper body strength. In all other things, men are deemed equal or inferior. God help you should you suggest traditional male aptitudes on subjects such as math have ANY meaning. You can't even say men soldier better without the Zena fans spewing out of the wood work. (Note: I STRONGLY support women in combat, but I do so because of the concepts of Citizenship, Duty and Free Will, NOT due to female combat ability. I'm sure some moron will read this and insist I just suggested all women suck at all form of combat in all situations. That I actually had to type out that previous line to pre-empt the morons is hardcore proof of how diseased our society has become with politically correctness). Be so dense an uncivilized as to suggest a lot women, of their own free will, prefer traditional roles, and you'll be run off the unversity by howling mobs, even if you are President of the University. As for women in charge, some would do good, and some would be wretched, just like the men, but with a female twist to it. I believe a concerted effort achieve utopia by female control would work as well as communism did to achieve the worker's paradise in North Korea. (fortunately, unlike communism, such theorizing will never get beyond funny and/or bad science fiction....) Free Will, citizenship and duty will get you a lot further than radical feminism ever will. Play nice while you butcher each other.
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:09:00 - [109] Edited by: Mr Friendly on 04/09/2008 09:17:01 quote=Sergeant Spot]Stuff Actually, as far as I know, the only things men are categorically better than women at, genetically speaking, is Hair in Ear Lobes (I shit you not), Something else Silly, and Gender Determination (frankly, that is a Big deal, so kudos to us men). These 3 things are carried on the 'Y' chromosome, so are uniquely male. Everything else is conjecture. (Except driving, of course.... women just can't drive properly :P) edit: I'll also point out that the 'X' chromasome apparently carries the color gene. So, at best, men are only as good as the women with half the genetic makeup for colour. Interesting, really. Genes account for a lot of capacities, but little of our behavior. That's probably the most interesting part of these sorts of discussions....
Zeknichov Realm Industries	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:15:00 - [110] For every generalization in this topic there exists exceptions to them, and thus the generalizations are senseless. You don't put someone in charge based on their sex you put them in charge based on their qualifications. There's so much fanatic philogyny in this topic it's appalling.
Kalahari Wayrest Re-Awakened Technologies Inc	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:21:00 - [111] The generalisations are strong in this thread! I've decided to be amused rather than enraged, therefore I'll post nothing contstructive oh and "I do believe women are inherently more capable of providing diplomacy in times of crisis. " Margaret Thatcher __________________________ Indulge Me Consider Yourself Indulged - Immy ♥ Wow immy scored - Xorus
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:22:00 - [112] Originally by: Zeknichov For every generalization in this topic there exists exceptions to them, and thus the generalizations are senseless. You don't put someone in charge based on their sex you put them in charge based on their qualifications. There's so much fanatic philogyny in this topic it's appalling. I'll point out that in inductive logic, it's required you move from instance to general. As such, the mere existence of exceptions do nothing other than provide a 'talking point'. The underlying logic is unaffected. I'll certainly agree that capability should trump preconceptions. Sadly, I'm not sure it does...here or in the real world :(
Zeknichov Realm Industries	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:23:00 - [113] Originally by: Mr Friendly Originally by: Zeknichov For every generalization in this topic there exists exceptions to them, and thus the generalizations are senseless. You don't put someone in charge based on their sex you put them in charge based on their qualifications. There's so much fanatic philogyny in this topic it's appalling. I'll point out that in inductive logic, it's required you move from instance to general. As such, the mere existence of exceptions do nothing other than provide a 'talking point'. The underlying logic is unaffected. I'll certainly agree that capability should trump preconceptions. Sadly, I'm not sure it does...here or in the real world :( I'll also point out that inductive logic is the least logical of all logic. In fact it's still debated today if it's even a valid form of logic.
ceaon Gallente Porandor	Posted - 2008.09.04 11:46:00 - [114] OP u are married ? woman lead she decide when and how things start but no when finish Signature is inappropriate and has been removed. Navigator
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.04 14:00:00 - [115] Originally by: ceaon OP u are married ? woman lead she decide when and how things start but no when finish Yeah ... I wish there was a way to see how many 'great men' in history were led around by the ballsack by wives and concubines! How many leaders and judges committed murder and atrocities in order to please their wonderful 'better half'. If your married, you probably know what I'm talking about. Women in general may have more characteristic means to facilitate nurturing, but they are also far colder and remoreseless when provoked to fighting. It's one of the reason the American military has such few female snipers. They actually tend to score equal or higher than their male counterparts. Women have just as much potential for violence and cruelty as men. They often don't express it physically like men do, but I daresay the emotional brainf*cks a woman does leave longer lasting scars and trama. Oh, if history could somehow show us how many woman have caused murder and genocide with the tools they are good at using (language and words), you might see a different trend. Also, your not allowed to support anything that might say men are scientifically superior than women. I'm serious. If you do, you a cheuvanist. It's against political correctness. In our day and age, being a man is a crime just waiting to find the right law to punish it. We're all evil, domineering cavemen who just want to destroy each other and should be protected. If you don't think political correctness is leaning hard on these 'surveys' and scientific experiments?
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.09.04 15:13:00 - [116] Originally by: Chaosgabe TWC forum breaking picture And noone mentioned Angela Merkel yet, the Chancellor of Germany. I wonder why . . . I gave a whole list of women in office to show that they are out there but apparrantly they are null and void so the argument could ensure. According to others they don't count.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.04 15:38:00 - [117] You don't want to put women in office. Cause then we realize that there are crappy women politicians just like there are crappy men politicians, and we destroy the hopes of millions that women will inherently 'fix the world', if only ... Originally by: CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.09.04 16:14:00 - [118] Originally by: Ruze You don't want to put women in office. Cause then we realize that there are crappy women politicians just like there are crappy men politicians, and we destroy the hopes of millions that women will inherently 'fix the world', if only ... The very definition of patronizing.
Sharupak Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.09.04 19:48:00 - [119] Cathrine the Great queen elizabeth margaret thatcher Joan of Arc Probably the best examples of Women in Charge. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.04 20:05:00 - [120] Originally by: Sharupak Cathrine the Great queen elizabeth margaret thatcher Joan of Arc Probably the best examples of Women in Charge. Wow. Did you know Margaret Thatcher was supposedly responsible for pushing the first Bush into the first war with Iraq? I didn't. That's not saying much for me, but that period of history was when I was a little kid, and thus, doesn't quite mean the same as 'history', if you know what a mean. I DID know about Cathrine the Great and her tendency for invading other countries, though ... Originally by: CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
ALoneHobo II	Posted - 2008.09.04 20:29:00 - [121] Man hunt woman cook . . . .maybe sexist but it was true back the old caveman days . . . . if woman could hunt better they would have evolved bigger and stronger :P woman support the men and the men make the descicions . . . . . woman are best left in a supporting role and let the heartless choices of men destroy the earth :D
Toshiro GreyHawk	Posted - 2008.09.04 21:21:00 - [122] Ah ... Once upon a time, when I was younger and stupider than I am now ... I was all for Women's Liberation. I figured that outside of a few things involving brute strength a woman's brain was just as good as a man's so there weren't any reasons a woman couldn't do anything a man could do (outside of brute strength). Then one day ... I realized that I did not know any liberated women - and I knew a LOT of women. I knew some that were Feminists but they were so caught up in their own politics that they were morons. I knew a lot that would play the equality card whenever it was to their benefit but then fall back on getting a man to do things for them whenever that was to their benefit. Later on, I worked with a lot of women. They'd all want to be your buddy and pretend like they were one of the guys and all that - but - don't believe it. You get into a disagreement with them and the claws come out. Of course they won't say anything to your face, they'll just go around behind your back to your boss and lie about you. And you've always got to watch their little egos. Say the wrong thing - and they're all in a snit ... so you have to go roll over and pee on yourself to even work with them again. Think about it. Women don't respect themselves - so how can they respect anyone else? I'm not afraid of strong capable women. I like strong capable women. But - what I've seen in my life was that the stronger, more intelligent, more capable the woman - the bigger an ******* she needed to dominate her and make her feel like a woman ... I'm retired now and one of the things I really do not miss about working was having to put up with women. It's like the guys all get along and have their little club and then the girls show up and EVERYTHING has to change. The men have no rights because - the woman is always right. All those jokes you read about women? They're all true. I still haven't changed. I still believe that a woman could do most any job a man could. I still believe that they could be strong, capable people - but they aren't. I wish I was wrong but the simple truth is - women are a pain in the ass. Now ... that doesn't mean you shouldn't be nice to them. Why be mean to them? If you are mean to them you're just being a jerk. For the most part they can't help the way they are. Between biology and socialization ... they just become what they are. Oh - and they are the way they are because of OTHER WOMEN not because of some strictures men have put on them. So ... turn the world over to women? LOL!!!! What a freaking joke. Mostly ... I'd never say this stuff to a woman because it would be a waste of time. The men reading this (unless they've B.S.'d themselves into believing the crap women spout so they can get laid) are gonna know what I mean and the women reading this are just gonna write me off as some kind of slack jawed cave man. So what. One advantage of being old is that there's a lot of stuff you just don't freaking care about any more ... such as women's opinions. My one suggestion to any women reading this who actually want to be strong capable human beings is - stop thinking that you can make the world the kind of place you want it to be simply by pretending it already is that way. Trust me - it isn't. Look at things the way they really are, NOT based on how they effect YOU. Just because something is bad for YOU doesn't mean it's bad for the world. Take up history as a hobby. You can't make money at it ... but take it up as a hobby. Look at how PEOPLE treat each other and try to understand how their past effects the way they think. Spend a few decades at that and you may have some idea of how the world really works. Accept yourself for who you are. If you're freaking ugly - then accept the fact that you're freaking ugly but don't hate the world because of it. And for God's sake don't think you're freaking ugly when you freaking AREN'T. The Truth is your friend.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.09.04 21:40:00 - [123] Holy Napalmed Valley Batman!
drendell	Posted - 2008.09.04 21:49:00 - [124] heres an answer for ya ? this is why women have been abused for along time:) and women should consider themselves lucky the lionesses have it much worse off. they do all the hunting and the males still get first dibs.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.04 22:28:00 - [125] Originally by: drendell heres an answer for ya ? this is why women have been abused for along time:) and women should consider themselves lucky the lionesses have it much worse off. they do all the hunting and the males still get first dibs. I'm not a Christian. I'm hardcore Agnostic (which means I am NOT a borderline Atheist) 99.99% of modern christian bashing is simple low brow ignorant knuckle dragging bigotry based on distortions and a few out right lies. I actually find talking with Christians about the the nature faith and existance much more refreshing and open minded than "most" Atheists (although a few Atheists truely are free thinkers and don't get a wild hair up their butt over folks who have faith....) Play nice while you butcher each other.
Sharupak Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.09.04 23:03:00 - [126] Edited by: Sharupak on 04/09/2008 23:04:11 Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk stuff Yes, these women exist, they are in every workplace anyone has ever set foot in so I will even go so far as to say that this isnt a small sect of women you are talking about. But they matchup just as equally to that slack ass dipshit that if you ever saw in a bar, you would roll his ass at the drop of a hat. That smooth tongue ass kissing brown noser. Or how about that guy that has the pictures all over his desk of beautiful family but he is never in it because he is trying to disparately rub it up against the office hottie. Both of these ******s are always in management. Managing women. Whats worse is that there are those women that are as equally manipulative and portray her manager as either example I just listed when in fact the guy is a stand up dude. I think you pointed that out succinctly. But that arguement just doesnt fly anymore because women are cops, soldiers, olympians, CEOs, politicians. While Michael phelps was wining 8 gold medals there was another woman that lost the gold by .001 seconds. What was so cool about it was that she was 41 years old! I mean holy shit she dusted like 18 other professional athletes in their prime at the top of their careers that were half her age! My wife coordinated weapons assets for an entire naval battlegroup as an E-5 in the persian gulf. She was telling male and female pilots where to fly what targets to collect data on and had the power to give them the green light on anything afloat. In the workplace, there are shitbag women, but TBH, there are just as many shitbag men. Why dont we just classify them as shitbags instead of trying to separate the unseparatable. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
JAQUE ALERA	Posted - 2008.09.04 23:24:00 - [127] This topic proved interesting reading with responses across the spectrum. I was prompted to post by thinking of Sarah Palin as the president following McCain having a stroke from one of his famous exhibitions of temper. I have a great wife, two amazing kids and a strong respect of woman from having many great ones come through my life. Lovers, friends, mentors, bosses, co-workers and employees; women have shown me the importance of emotional intelligence and the use of soft skills in developing a well rounded approach to being a human being. Everyone is shaped by experience. If your experiences have taught you to see the short comings of the fairer sex then I understand your differing opinion. I willfully choose to see the potential and positive character traits I've experienced and learned from. I would like to thank one of the posters for making me look up a word: phi+log+y+ny [fi-loj-uh-nee] noun- love of or liking for women. Guilty as charged. What would this world be like without them? An observation on forum posting. Broad generalizations are the most effective way of engendering a response. The more detailed you make your OP the more likely you'll get a "wall of text" or "tl;dr" response. Eve is unique in it's OOPE forum that it has a world wide readership with many differing backgrounds. I tend to read/post in many economic/news/political blogs. The readerships there tend to stay on topic and will only respond to the appropriate subject matter. Final thought. What if the post's topic would have been: "Put (any ethnic/nationality/race) in charge. The charges of racism for any counter argument would have had the thread locked quickly. Why is it ok to exhibit misogyny and sexism? Funny to consider how women are allowed to be targeted without fear of being perceived in an unflattering way.
Elanai	Posted - 2008.09.05 00:12:00 - [128] Edited by: Elanai on 05/09/2008 00:12:42 Im curious to know if the OP thinks women even deserve or need a simplistic definition to live by? (Given by a man that is)
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.05 01:27:00 - [129] Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 05/09/2008 01:36:35 First of all /salute Jaque. I appreciate your understanding and intelligent, reasonable tact. The Europeans and Americans in this thread are coming from vastly different places, for the most part that is. I think the key to life in general is moderation, and as you said, a soft touch. It's when we begin to think in extremes and to have hair trigger reflex reactions that there is a problem. I wrote out a long post, and the forums ate it. I don't think I have it in me to do it again. Suffice it to say that I was thinking the same thing you were Jaque, about how if this thread were about a different "minority" group, it would never have received the comments it did - the venomous comments, the patronizing jokes. The fact that it did, that's its so socially acceptable to act this way, well... I've never been a feminist. I consider myself a moderate. But I decided to carry the feminist torch for awhile yesterday and it turned out to be pretty eye-opening. I can't believe how the comments I made raised the hackles on some of these backs. This topic seems to breed backlash in a very major way, and it only serves to substantiate my reasoning. Many of the guys gave well thought out and reasonable sounding posts, but their thought processes were underscored with the same attitude I originally spoke of. I'm sure many of them go through their lives as regular Joes... they have wives, mothers, bosses who are women. No one would ever accuse them of being sexist. And they're not. But American culture is. And it's rooted so deep, that many guys and girls don't even see it. And then there's Toshiro. While I respect his diction and mastery of the language, and I have to respect the avenues in life that brought him to the specific place he is in life, I can only shake my head. The fact that he summed up his whole write-up with a paragraph on the need for girls to have more self confidence and know they're "cute" makes his mindset clear. And I can't believe he stated 'you guys know what I'm talking about here' and I didn't see a dozen 'No you don'ts'. Whatever. A phrase I always think about: If you went through your whole life walking in my shoes, you would be exactly where I am today. Women and men aren't that different. But our society has perpetauted this myth and we continue to perpetuate it even more. And I'm dismayed right now. I don't like to judge people. I've just never thought about this topic as much as I did today.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Umbra Synergy Final Retribution Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.05 01:27:00 - [130] we should put penguins in charge, penguins are always happy, who ever heard of a penguin war see its brilliant, let the happy little birds lead us to harmony! Applebabe ate my signature :( but the fish hat forgives! Nemotology is the EvE religion of choice!
Elanai	Posted - 2008.09.05 01:36:00 - [131] Edited by: Elanai on 05/09/2008 01:36:20 Quote: Many of the guys gave well thought out and reasonable sounding posts, but their thought processes were underscored with the same attitude I originally spoke of. Nailed.
nahtoh Caldari StrikerCorp	Posted - 2008.09.05 01:43:00 - [132] Originally by: JAQUE ALERA emotional intelligence Which is what exactly? How you conform? Or where to stick that emotional barb where it will the most damage? Or my personal fav, a way of making overly emotional yoyos feel better about their lack of control over their emotions... ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
Elanai	Posted - 2008.09.05 01:47:00 - [133] Quote: Which is what exactly? How you conform? Or where to stick that emotional barb where it will the most damage? Or my personal fav, a way of making overly emotional yoyos feel better about their lack of control over their emotions...Twisted Evil rofl
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.09.05 02:03:00 - [134] Originally by: nahtoh Originally by: JAQUE ALERA emotional intelligence Which is what exactly? How you conform? Or where to stick that emotional barb where it will the most damage? Or my personal fav, a way of making overly emotional yoyos feel better about their lack of control over their emotions... Emotinal Intelligance from my personal definition is the ability to grasp and understand the sub-conscious and emotial motivation and processes of yourself and other people. You may call it "Empathy". Emotional Intelligence and the normal, let's call it "Scientific", intelligence isn't really gender specific. Differences occur only due to different societal influences on the cerebral development in male and female children. The only difference between male and female humans should be in simple physiology, that is menstruation and pregnancy. Not sure if females are in a similar dire need to get the 'pressure off their genitals' as males are. Putting the females to power at this time and human evolution would just lead to a different shade of atrocity but not to a betterment of mankind. Reason and compassion would have to gain authority over the simple instincts of fear greed and hate first for any 'higher' evolution of mankind. tl;dr Women are as stupid as Men. -------- Ideas for: Mining
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.05 02:13:00 - [135] Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 05/09/2008 02:15:08 Originally by: Elanai Quote: I appreciate your understanding and intelligent, reasonable tact. Uhuuh... Oh come on . I see where you're coming from with this, but in the face of all this backlash and assholitry (), I'd rather support the supporters than turn my back on those aligned with me. Edit: Nice explanation Abrezzar. I agree with you 100%. P.S. They're not. Until they hit their mid 20's to early 30's, the other cruel trick of Mother Nature .
Sodium Phosphate Gallente Killer Koalas Kingdom of Butan	Posted - 2008.09.05 02:14:00 - [136] You guys know of any other forums that get this good of a discussion going? Seriously, I need to ween myself of EVE-O, its hurting my uni grades.
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.05 02:16:00 - [137] Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 05/09/2008 02:17:36 I know right? I'm gonna get fired from my freakin job if I can't curb my newest addiction. I love Eve players though - the game seems to weed out the unintelligent. And uncool.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.09.05 02:21:00 - [138] Originally by: Amandin Adouin Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 05/09/2008 02:17:36 I know right? I'm gonna get fired from my freakin job if I can't curb my newest addiction. I love Eve players though - the game seems to weed out the unintelligent. And uncool. looks into General Discussion and COAD. Say WHAT?!? -------- Ideas for: Mining
Sharupak Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.09.05 02:21:00 - [139] Originally by: Amandin Adouin Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 05/09/2008 01:50:15 First of all /salute Jaque. Jaque - I appreciate your understanding and intelligent, reasonable tact. The Europeans and Americans in this thread are coming from vastly different places, for the most part that is. I think the key to life in general is moderation, and as you said, a soft touch. It's when we begin to think in extremes and to have hair trigger reflex reactions that there is a problem. I wrote out a long post, and the forums ate it. I don't think I have it in me to do it again. Suffice it to say that I was thinking the same thing you were Jaque, about how if this thread were about a different "minority" group, it would never have received the comments it did - the venomous comments, the patronizing jokes. The fact that it did, that's its so socially acceptable to act this way, well... I've never been a feminist. I consider myself a moderate. But I decided to carry the feminist torch for awhile yesterday and it turned out to be pretty eye-opening. I can't believe how the comments I made raised the hackles on some of these backs. This topic seems to breed backlash in a very major way, and it only serves to substantiate my reasoning. Many of the guys gave well thought out and reasonable sounding posts, but their thought processes were underscored with the same attitude I originally spoke of. I'm sure many of them go through their lives as regular Joes... they have wives, mothers, bosses who are women. No one would ever accuse them of being sexist. And they're not. But American culture is. And it's rooted so deep, that many guys and girls don't even see it. And then there's Toshiro. While I respect his diction and mastery of the language, and I have to respect the avenues in life that brought him to the specific place he is in life, I can only shake my head. Referring to womens' "little egos" and the comment 'Women don't respect themselves - so how can they respect anyone else?' are such absurdly broad generalizations, that combined with the fact that he summed up his whole write-up with a sentence on the need for girls to have more self confidence and know they're "cute" makes his mindset clear. And I can't believe he stated 'you guys know what I'm talking about here' and I didn't see a dozen 'No you don'ts'. Whatever. A phrase I always think about: If you went through your whole life walking in my shoes, you would be exactly where I am today. Women and men aren't that different. But our society has perpetauted this myth and we continue to perpetuate it even more. And I'm dismayed right now. I don't like to judge people. I've just never thought about this topic as much as I did today. Ok, do you realize that you just made a generalization based on a 5 page thread composed of mostly ignorant imature humor generalizations by American teenagers on the interwebs? It is not a flame, just point out how easy this is to do as I am guilty of it all the time. I will say that American culture (if that is what you want to call it...we dont really have a culture) does promote sexism (which is what I think you might have actually ment). From an economic standpoint, women are the backbone of the american economy and corporations want to control women to buy their products. This mental warfare starts as soon as girls can read when they get a 24/7 onslaught of of imagery designed to show the way to be liked in american culture. They must become an object to be possessed. The imagery for men is pretty straight foward. We are being programed to possess that object. Us men are still in a slow transition of unlearning the bullshit our fathers taught us about women which figure heavily into it as well and stems back all the way to our jacked up puritanistic ideal system that was ejected from England. I am sexist, I still say stupid dismissive crap to my wife without thinking about what I am saying. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Elanai	Posted - 2008.09.05 02:21:00 - [140] Edited by: Elanai on 05/09/2008 02:23:14 Quote: I'd rather support the supporters than turn my back on those aligned with me. sigh I suppose. In favor of...
Sodium Phosphate Gallente Killer Koalas Kingdom of Butan	Posted - 2008.09.05 02:26:00 - [141] Edited by: Sodium Phosphate on 05/09/2008 02:28:21 EDIT: for revision, I need to think more.
Elanai	Posted - 2008.09.05 02:56:00 - [142] Quote: EDIT: for revision, I need to think more. Think well instead.
Sodium Phosphate Gallente Killer Koalas Kingdom of Butan	Posted - 2008.09.05 02:57:00 - [143] Originally by: Elanai Quote: EDIT: for revision, I need to think more. Think well instead. True.
Toshiro GreyHawk	Posted - 2008.09.05 04:54:00 - [144] Originally by: Sharupak Edited by: Sharupak on 04/09/2008 23:04:11 Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk stuff more stuff. There are *****s of every sex whatever you call them. And yes you have lots of women who are out there doing all kinds of jobs. That doesn't change anything. Despite any achievements they might make, most women are plagued by insecurities and self hatred. Some are worse than others but most of them have these problems. And - these problems are not the result of anything men have done to them - it is what women do to themselves that is the problem. Just listen to women talk and it's all "Oh ... I'm so incompetent ... Oh I'm such a screw up ..." As to the posts on race and sex - last I checked they weren't the same thing. Originally by:** Amandin Adouin Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 05/09/2008 02:12:56 ... (lots of stuff that if I include it in the post I won't have any room to say anything myself) Ha! Ha! American Culture is sexist and European Culture isn't ... Oh my gosh ... Self delusion at it's height. I've known a lot of Europeans too and they are just as sexist as we are. Of course - by sexist - I'm referring to men AND women. Sadly - there was nothing absurd about my generalizations of women. I wish you were right - but you aren't. They really are that way - and I mean all of them. If you can't see that - well then you're lost in the forest and have all these trees in the way. (That means you can't see the truth because your own point of view obscures it). As to why I was not universally decried by a bunch of guys? Well that's because they, for the most part, do know that I'm right. I haven't said a thing most guys don't know as simple facts of life. Telling women to think of themselves as being cute when they are makes WHAT mindset clear? That it saddens me to think of all the little Karen Carpenters out there who starved themselves to death because they thought they were fat? Men and women aren't that different ... compared to ... say ... ants. But - compared to each other - yeah ... they are really different but it would take a whole seperate post to go into that. As to your being dismayed ... well ... there were times (not concerning women) when I cried realizing the way the world is ... Compared to a lot of stuff that goes on ... women's problems are for the most part minor - at least in the modern, western, industrialized states .... Take off your rose colored glasses and embrace the world for the horrible place it is. Then ... after a while - you'll get used to it and won't be so dismayed ... well ... maybe you will ... but it won't be a big surprise any more ... The up side of seeing the world the way it really is - is that you apprecieate the good things a LOT more.
Taradis Amarr The Imperial Assassins Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.09.05 05:01:00 - [145] Originally by: Kyanzes Edited by: Kyanzes on 03/09/2008 17:38:01 With women in power we would have: - hideous wars without end - sudden changes in politics, probably on a week-by-week basis - fights would occur every day in the parliament - decrees would be enacted out of emotional discharge - p0rn would be abolished (OMG, already a cause not to let them into power) - women would have a week off every month with salary Men tend to shutter when Aunt Flo visits everymonth I know I do.... Aunt Flo is agravating to no ends kinda like that aunt that u wish would only visit once a yr give or take...
Taradis Amarr The Imperial Assassins Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.09.05 05:04:00 - [146] Originally by: drendell heres an answer for ya ? this is why women have been abused for along time:) and women should consider themselves lucky the lionesses have it much worse off. they do all the hunting and the males still get first dibs. Tis tru I am a Leo
Taradis Amarr The Imperial Assassins Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.09.05 05:05:00 - [147] Originally by: Amandin Adouin Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 05/09/2008 02:17:36 I know right? I'm gonna get fired from my freakin job if I can't curb my newest addiction. I love Eve players though - the game seems to weed out the unintelligent. And uncool. Well Thanks I luv u 2 I play eve so ya I'm cool and intelligent better than those "other people who don't play eve"
Mankirks Wife	Posted - 2008.09.05 05:22:00 - [148] I treat everyone the same. If they have issues they can feel free to **** off. I find applying this strategy religiously in my everyday life causes most issues with women (and men) to be self-correcting. ---
Sakura Nihil Stimulus	Posted - 2008.09.05 06:25:00 - [149] Women are human just like us. Labeling one gender as destructive and one as constructive is too black and white. More women in power though tbh, please. Football? Hell yes.
Rawrior Gallente Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.09.05 09:24:00 - [150] Originally by: Sakura Nihil Women are human just like us. Labeling one gender as destructive and one as constructive is too black and white. More women in power though tbh, please. d _____ TEH FORUM POLICE!!1!11!@2!
Victor Vision Amarr Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2008.09.05 12:55:00 - [151] Edited by: Victor Vision on 05/09/2008 12:55:36 Women at the workplace? Yes please. Helps mood and manners of the co-workers - especially with good looking women around. Women as boss? I have no boss and do not like having one - no matter the gender - just not my style. So hard to judge for me. I have worked with women as business partners though (these usually are bosses in their companies). Some of them were great to work with, others were power hungry beasts. Similar as with men realy. Some are good to work with, others are not. Depends more on individual character than on gender. EVE War I-The Beginning - EVE History Wiki
Sandra Tyrell	Posted - 2008.09.05 14:24:00 - [152] Edited by: Sandra Tyrell on 05/09/2008 14:24:39 Originally by: JAQUE ALERA I've been thinking about this today. Why not give them a shot? Look around and judge how great a job men have done for the world. Men destroy. Women create. Men conquer. Women communicate. Tired of destruction and threats. Encourage women into leadership roles. Lol. As silly as such childish and inaccurate generalizations are, how about I provide alternative viewpoints for your statements, (almost as) equally childish and inaccurate: Men build Women maintain (If you were talking about giving birth your OP is just hilariously simplistic) Men make frontal assaults Women stab you in the back, using 3rd parties if they can, while talking and smiling at you Hmm, my response is too hastily formulated. Oh well, doesn't matter in a comedy thread. In any case, I don't believe in those statements, they're just a mirror of your OP. Where I live women are encouraged into leadership roles, sadly often at the expense of skill, merit or knowledge. In politics right now a "young" woman can have a huge advantage over an older man. Just recently one of our major parties chose a distinctly average person with little experience to lead them, over an older man far more qualified and suited for the role. Just as an example, she can barely speak two languages (though lists four), he can speak six. Yet, it's quite possible that she will attract new voters to the party, because politics and society in general is all about a "mediasexy" surface now, content doesn't matter anymore. Perhaps it's the price society has to pay to get a better balance after millennia of paternalism. So, JAQUE, your wish is being fulfilled at least in some parts of the world, though we have a long road ahead of us still to 50/50 leadership split. Not that I think it's something to strive for, because gender shouldn't even be a factor.
Evanade Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.09.05 14:28:00 - [153] if no one has linked the piece george carlin did about god being a woman, someone should, cause its pretty sweet --------------------------- sok alt - main got banzored
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.05 19:32:00 - [154] <===Still thinks its all a matter of Free Will, Citizenship and Duty. For some strange reason I was pressed to find something I could enjoy doing so I could fulfill my obligations to society and to myself. No one ever bothered to say I only needed self fulfillment.
nahtoh Caldari StrikerCorp	Posted - 2008.09.05 19:44:00 - [155] Originally by: Abrazzar Originally by: nahtoh Originally by: JAQUE ALERA emotional intelligence Which is what exactly? How you conform? Or where to stick that emotional barb where it will the most damage? Or my personal fav, a way of making overly emotional yoyos feel better about their lack of control over their emotions... Emotinal Intelligance from my personal definition is the ability to grasp and understand the sub-conscious and emotial motivation and processes of yourself and other people. You may call it "Empathy". Emotional Intelligence and the normal, let's call it "Scientific", intelligence isn't really gender specific. Differences occur only due to different societal influences on the cerebral development in male and female children. The only difference between male and female humans should be in simple physiology, that is menstruation and pregnancy. Not sure if females are in a similar dire need to get the 'pressure off their genitals' as males are. Putting the females to power at this time and human evolution would just lead to a different shade of atrocity but not to a betterment of mankind. Reason and compassion would have to gain authority over the simple instincts of fear greed and hate first for any 'higher' evolution of mankind. tl;dr Women are as stupid as Men. No Its actually called empathy or if you like people skills, you may mislabel it "Emotional Intelligence". From the admittatly sparse reasch I did on it however even its proponats can't come up a set diffantion of it. Just because someone feels something it don't make it right. It really does seem to be a way of overly emotional people to try and make themselves feel better about their lack of control over their emotions. ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.09.05 20:33:00 - [156] Edited by: Haradgrim on 05/09/2008 20:36:19 Edited by: Haradgrim on 05/09/2008 20:35:47 Edited by: Haradgrim on 05/09/2008 20:33:51 Edited by: Haradgrim on 05/09/2008 20:33:24 Emotions are just a ccktail of neurotransmitters being smattered across receptor's throughout your nervous system, they don't always work as intended and often go off un-intentionally and have the potential to overide logically deduced decisions. Hence the oxymoronic interpriatation anyone who has a ounce of logical intelligence in their body would have for the term "emotional intelligence." Its ground noise, static, it gets in your way and tries to screw you up. Hence the reason people often fear positive change, fail to do things that are obviously in their best interest (i.e. not //wrists).... etc.... emotion makes us human, in the same way that a flawless diamond is assumed to be a fake... Edit: Empathy, by the way, is the ability to LOGICALLY take into account the affect a person's emotions are having / have had on them in your decision making process. -- Originally by:* CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.09.05 20:36:00 - [157] "My friends, pay no attention to the ground noise and static" _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.09.05 20:37:00 - [158] Originally by: Pwett "My friends, pay no attention to the ground noise and static" I'm a canadian and a liberal but that was a great line, yeah I ripped it, sue me. -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.09.05 20:38:00 - [159] I enjoyed it :) _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.09.05 20:46:00 - [160] Originally by: Pwett I enjoyed it :) I don't agree with much of his politics (though to be honest hes pretty decent for a republican), you gotta respect him for where he comes from and what he's been through / done (his wife too, tbqh). -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
drendell	Posted - 2008.09.05 21:37:00 - [161] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: drendell heres an answer for ya ? this is why women have been abused for along time:) and women should consider themselves lucky the lionesses have it much worse off. they do all the hunting and the males still get first dibs. I'm not a Christian. I'm hardcore Agnostic (which means I am NOT a borderline Atheist) 99.99% of modern christian bashing is simple low brow ignorant knuckle dragging bigotry based on distortions and a few out right lies. I actually find talking with Christians about the the nature faith and existance much more refreshing and open minded than "most" Atheists (although a few Atheists truely are free thinkers and don't get a wild hair up their butt over folks who have faith....) that's not christian bashing i was just pointing out that that story, could be one of the reasons why women have been wrong treated for a very long time.
nahtoh Caldari StrikerCorp	Posted - 2008.09.05 21:53:00 - [162] Originally by: Haradgrim Edit: Empathy, by the way, is the ability to LOGICALLY take into account the affect a person's emotions are having / have had on them in your decision making process. Nah Empathy is more being able put yourself in their shoes if you like. Sod all to do with logic. ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
Elanai	Posted - 2008.09.06 01:05:00 - [163] HOLY ****
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.07 02:10:00 - [164] Empathy. I think women do have more of that on the large scale (mass generalization here). I've been thinking about recent events in my life... I think women are more likely to stick around to see things through when there are problems, and work on resolving them, even if it wouldn't benefit the woman herself. I recently found myself in a really bad relationship. I mean the worst you could imagine. It didn't start out that way though. It had to do with said person's genetics failing him, leaving him with an inherited mental 'issue'. When I saw what was happening and I realized that there was absolutely no way to make "us" work, I still stuck it out to try to minimize the impact on this person (and myself actually). This person was violent but also very suicidal. I think I did the stronger thing, by making sure the situation was handled as gently as possible. The easier thing would have been to cut off contact immediately of course. But I couldn't do that. I couldn't have done it to any person faced with such depression, but especially not one I had loved. I think that males have a much easier time just "shutting off", turning away. It's a societal issue of course; men have been raised to be strong and self respecting. But I think what I did was even stronger. And I don't think anyone who knows me has ever doubted my self respect. Some of it goes back to biology also. I mean, as the weaker sex physically, women have had to develop other coping mechanisms to keep themselves safe and strong. I think one of the mechanisms they had to develop was compassion. I've seen it in me so many times, when I had to reach down into myself and pull out any ounce of compassion I had just to neutralize a fight, keep the situation from getting really bad. Of course, there are women who do lack self respect, and stay in abusive relationship thinking it'll get better or something, but I really think that's an issue of stupidity. I guess it's pretty hard to tell the difference though. Not my point. I don't know... I happened to be thinking of this today, and it fit in with this thread. These are, of course, gross generalizations, but thinking of all this, women on the whole could interject some good into politics. But of course that brings us back to the political system, and systems of power in general, where the kind of people who make it usually don't have all that much compassion and empathy. And the larger the country, the worse it is. So I guess that wouldn't solve anything. People are people. But I do think we're evolving, and I'm optimistic about mankind in general. Although the cultural evolution is happening so slowly, that our planet will be gone by the time we're actually at a good place societally. And that's another thread. To Toshiro... I'm sorry for whatever events in life led you to the place you're at now. I can assure that modern day women are not the weak troublemakers they seem to appear to you as. You mentioned being retired, so maybe we're just coming from different generations. You do kinda sound like my dad ;). I do agree with you that womens' lib isn't all that important of an issue in modern times; I can think of many many more pressing issues. It was, however, the current topic at hand. Also, I am certainly not wearing rose colored glasses. I'm not sure what I ever stated that would make you think that. The world indeed is a horrible place, and I'm willing to bet that I've seen more of its badness than most of the people here. The world is a pretty cold, cruel place... I have chosen to try to retain my sense of humor and to stay as light hearted as possible through it all, because well, what choice do I really have? May as well enjoy the things we do have and make the best of them. Like no more depressing posts on Saturday nights... I think I'm going to go out ;)
JAQUE ALERA	Posted - 2008.09.07 04:27:00 - [165] Amandin, Your character is defined by the adversity you face. I believe you've faced your challenges and became someone I'd be proud to call friend. Good luck and fair travels. Jaque By walking through the dark you appreciate the light.
Toshiro GreyHawk	Posted - 2008.09.07 06:16:00 - [166] Amandin Adouin Good luck. I hope you can retain your optimism and avoid the disillusionment with your sex that I've experienced. I sincerely hope that you are right and that I am wrong. I'm ... just afraid that I'm the one who's right ... As to hanging in there I think that depends on two things. First the individual and secondly their culture both feeding off each other. If there are children involved then certainly women tend to hang on longer than men do as the men are freer to go their own way biologically, emotionally and legally. That is only an over all assessment but then that's what we're discussing here. Men care about their kids but for the most part aren't as obsessed with them as women are. The courts side with the woman and the kids go with her. Of course children really need both parents and much of societies problems come from these products of split families. In any case, I'll agree that thinking about man's fate in general is depressing so - back to the game.
Zeknichov Realm Industries	Posted - 2008.09.07 08:06:00 - [167] What's ironic is the people who make idle claims that sexism is so rooted in the core of American culture that no one can ever objectively discuss the sociological topic are also the people claiming psychological differences between women and men exist. What they are failing to take into account is these psychological differences are the cause and the root for the sociological "sexism", which therefore is not sexism but the nature of things.
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.07 08:11:00 - [168] Bottom line: women are just as capable of being petty, ambitious, self-serving, greedy, vindictive *******s as men. And since a politician is by definition someone who believe that they should be the one to tell other people what to do and how to do it, then they're highly likely to require and possess these attributes. So who cares? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Bistot Kid The First Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2008.09.07 10:18:00 - [169] Edited by: Bistot Kid on 07/09/2008 10:18:04 http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_TWBN7NlpPg8/SKb_yKVjBWI/AAAAAAAAAjw/WgKn2QneZL8/s1600-h/imagesshes-20a-20woman.jpg -------------------- What? Me Worry? --------------------
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.08 02:56:00 - [170] Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 08/09/2008 03:04:32 Thanks Jaque and Toshiro. Both of you are also obviously extremely intelligent and I've appreciated hearing your arguments. The things I spoke of are in the past. Life's too short to dwell on such things too much, I've just been feeling melancholic and chatty lately (I'm alot more quiet IRL). However, I'm forever the optimist at heart; I don't think that's ever going to change . Some philosopher once said that there are two types of people: those who lead endlessly boring lives and are always in search of excitement, and the second sort, who can't seem to escape excitement and yearn for boredom at all costs. I, like said philosopher, fall into that second group, for better or worse. Originally by: Zeknichov What's ironic is the people who make idle claims that sexism is so rooted in the core of American culture that no one can ever objectively discuss the sociological topic are also the people claiming psychological differences between women and men exist No one ever said this couldn't be objectively discussed. There are biological and sociological differences between men and women (nature and nurture - but I don't think we're all that different, as some would state), but as for the rest of your statement: Quote: What they are failing to take into account is these psychological differences are the cause and the root for the sociological "sexism", which therefore is not sexism but the nature of things. Please back it up ;)
Ethidium Bromide ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.08 11:52:00 - [171] Originally by: JAQUE ALERA Women communicate. what about efficiency Originally by: George Petsch Nochricht: Dei schwarer StroinlSser trifftn Karli[Baatzis] und ruiniert erm so richtig de Dosn, 1343.7 schhodn, oida.
Technomagez Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.08 13:51:00 - [172] Originally by: JAQUE ALERA I've been thinking about this today. Why not give them a shot? Look around and judge how great a job men have done for the world. Men destroy. Women create. Men conquer. Women communicate. Tired of destruction and threats. Encourage women into leadership roles. That might be right for your stereotypical country where everything is just as intended :P Generally i found women to be more vicious, cruel and revengeful than men. Men put a dagger in between your ribs while women poison you...
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.10 15:48:00 - [173] Alrighty, earlier in this thread, I promised someone some numbers about the validity of the Glass Ceiling in the U.S. There's actually a "Glass Ceiling Commission" appointed by the Government to study this. There's so much information it's ridiculous coming from them. You can find most of it here: Lots of Long Boring Glass Ceiling Reports To sum up some of it,here is an excert from The Economist Magazine, citing some of the Glass Ceiling Commission findings: It is 20 years since the term ôglass ceilingö was coined by the Wall Street Journal to describe the apparent barriers that prevent women from reaching the top of the corporate hierarchy; and it is ten years since the American government's specially appointed Glass Ceiling Commission published its recommendations. In 1995 the commission said that the barrier was continuing ôto deny untold numbers of qualified people the opportunity to compete for and hold executive level positions in the private sector.ö It found that women had 45.7% of America's jobs and more than half of master's degrees being awarded. Yet 95% of senior managers were men, and female managers' earnings were on average a mere 68% of their male counterparts'. Ten years on, women account for 46.5% of America's workforce and for less than 8% of its top managers, although at big Fortune 500 companies the figure is a bit higher. Female managers' earnings now average 72% of their male colleagues'. Booz Allen Hamilton, a consulting firm that monitors departing chief executives in America, found that 0.7% of them were women in 1998, and 0.7% of them were women in 2004. In between, the figure fluctuated. But the firm says that one thing is clear: the number is ôvery low and not getting higherö. Again, no one has stated that women can't make it. They are just statiscially less likely to. And yes, I understand that women have to deal with taking time off the rear children, etc. However, that really shouldn't make this much of an impact on the numbers. And I've spoken with other women I work with in the corporate world, and many of them report having been discriminated against firsthand. I'm not a crazy feminist. I'd love to stay at home and raise kids. But if you're going to question whether something this big even exists, I have to do my part to show that it does.
Lilan Kahn Amarr The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2008.09.10 17:35:00 - [174] **** women, they whant whant and whant. do they whent gender equdity? i honestly dont know they seam to whant special treatment "Bringing Content to you 1 round of ammo at a time"
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.10 17:44:00 - [175] Originally by: Lilan Kahn ** women, they whant whant and whant. do they whent gender equdity? i honestly dont know they seam to whant special treatment I don't whant gender equdity. I just whent to be treated special. You whanta treat me special? I give up my life in Taiwan for u. cal me! <3 <3 <2 !!11 p.s. ** womean.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.10 18:05:00 - [176] Originally by: Amandin Adouin Alrighty, earlier in this thread, I promised someone some numbers about the validity of the Glass Ceiling in the U.S. And since I always keep my promises... There's actually a "Glass Ceiling Commission" appointed by the Government to study this. There's so much information it's ridiculous coming from them. You can find most of it here: Lots of Long Boring Glass Ceiling Reports To sum up some of it, here is an excert from The Economist Magazine, citing some of the Glass Ceiling Commission findings: It is 20 years since the term ôglass ceilingö was coined by the Wall Street Journal to describe the apparent barriers that prevent women from reaching the top of the corporate hierarchy; and it is ten years since the American government's specially appointed Glass Ceiling Commission published its recommendations. In 1995 the commission said that the barrier was continuing ôto deny untold numbers of qualified people the opportunity to compete for and hold executive level positions in the private sector.ö It found that women had 45.7% of America's jobs and more than half of master's degrees being awarded. Yet 95% of senior managers were men, and female managers' earnings were on average a mere 68% of their male counterparts'. Ten years on, women account for 46.5% of America's workforce and for less than 8% of its top managers, although at big Fortune 500 companies the figure is a bit higher. Female managers' earnings now average 72% of their male colleagues'. Booz Allen Hamilton, a consulting firm that monitors departing chief executives in America, found that 0.7% of them were women in 1998, and 0.7% of them were women in 2004. In between, the figure fluctuated. But the firm says that one thing is clear: the number is ôvery low and not getting higherö. Again, no one has stated that women can't make it. They are just statiscially less likely to. And yes, I understand that women have to deal with taking time off the rear children, etc. However, that really shouldn't make this much of an impact on the numbers. And I've spoken with other women I work with in the corporate world, and many of them report having been discriminated against firsthand. I'm not a crazy feminist. I'm pretty old fashioned actually - I'd love to just stay at home and raise kids and not work. But if you're going to question whether something this big even exists, I have to do my part to show that it does. Government commissions dont impress me. Is there a so-called 'glass ceiling'? I believe so. Does it take the form that feminist activists often say it does? no. It is caused by free will exercised by women, and suggested "fixes" are pure bigotry. Until such fixes do not hold back, or move forward, a single man or woman on account of their gender, AND do not even so much as "suggest", or even mildly HINT a quota, they will remain bigotry, pure and simple. Having said that, one theory I've read about a few times states that in competitive promotions where a significant part of it is how aggressively you pursue the promotion, and also in pay negotiations for jobs where you bargain for your pay, the average woman tends to do less well, but NOT due to being a woman, but rather due to more "aggressive" pursuit of the job/pay by the average man. But at the end of the day, this too falls under free will. Furthermore, I don't see it as a problem. I flatly reject the notion we 'need' more people of certain genders or races in certain jobs. The only thing we need to do is be sure people have the opportunity to pursue their dreams, and THAT is being done already. Asside from a very few jobs (none of which are corperate CEO or political jobs), anyone who is not literially mentally disabled can do anything they want. They just have to make it happen. Play nice while you butcher each other.
Sharupak Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.09.10 18:06:00 - [177] Originally by: Amandin Adouin Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 10/09/2008 17:31:06 Alrighty, earlier in this thread, I promised someone some numbers about the validity of the Glass Ceiling in the U.S. And since I always keep my promises... There's actually a "Glass Ceiling Commission" appointed by the Government to study this. There's so much information it's ridiculous coming from them. You can find most of it here: Lots of Long Boring Glass Ceiling Reports To sum up some of it, here is an excert from The Economist Magazine, citing some of the Glass Ceiling Commission findings: It is 20 years since the term ôglass ceilingö was coined by the Wall Street Journal to describe the apparent barriers that prevent women from reaching the top of the corporate hierarchy; and it is ten years since the American government's specially appointed Glass Ceiling Commission published its recommendations. In 1995 the commission said that the barrier was continuing ôto deny untold numbers of qualified people the opportunity to compete for and hold executive level positions in the private sector.ö It found that women had 45.7% of America's jobs and more than half of master's degrees being awarded. Yet 95% of senior managers were men, and female managers' earnings were on average a mere 68% of their male counterparts'. Ten years on, women account for 46.5% of America's workforce and for less than 8% of its top managers, although at big Fortune 500 companies the figure is a bit higher. Female managers' earnings now average 72% of their male colleagues'. Booz Allen Hamilton, a consulting firm that monitors departing chief executives in America, found that 0.7% of them were women in 1998, and 0.7% of them were women in 2004. In between, the figure fluctuated. But the firm says that one thing is clear: the number is ôvery low and not getting higherö. Again, no one has stated that women can't make it. They are just statiscially less likely to. And yes, I understand that women have to deal with taking time off the rear children, etc. However, that really shouldn't make this much of an impact on the numbers. And I've spoken with other women I work with in the corporate world, and many of them report having been discriminated against firsthand. I'm not a crazy feminist. I'm pretty old fashioned actually - I'd love to just stay at home and raise kids and not work. But if you're going to question whether something this big even exists, I have to do my part to show that it does. Yeah, that is pretty much unarguable. But it did give me some random thoughts. It did make me wonder if this number will improve in the future due to social networking. Masters degrees mean squat in boards of directors and executive staff positions at major corporations. It is who you know. But there are women who are starting to get into CEO positions at major corps more and more. I mean once you get enough of them and they get their own "good old girls club" going, it should...for a while exponentially increase women employment in positions of management, project hitman, and executive. However, I dont know if women will ever get an equal cut there...although it seems it may happen in politics. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Aber Shepard	Posted - 2008.09.10 19:42:00 - [178] Originally by: JAQUE ALERA I've been thinking about this today. Why not give them a shot? Look around and judge how great a job men have done for the world. Men destroy. Women create. Men conquer. Women communicate. Tired of destruction and threats. Encourage women into leadership roles. I disagree exept for the last part (about encourage women into leadership), but only if they are qualified, competent and truly worthy for it. Just like men has to be. Personally, I think feminism has gone way to far, atleast in my country. In my opinion terms such as feminism and masculism should be replaced with humanism. It should be equal between the genders, and Im not just talking about getting women employed in men-dominated jobs or women encouraged into leadership roles, Im also talking about women having to do military service, men to be able to put the job aside to be with their children just as mothers get to (and, of course encourage men to get employed in women-dominated jobs) etc. I've heard a couple of people say "Men have the oppertunity to work and build a career while we women have to take a step back and take care of the children", well, that works the other way around: "Women have the oppertunity to spend time with their children while men have to leave their homes to work" It's kinda difficult to speak my mind in english since it's not my native language, so you'll have to do with this.
Amastat Caldari Poseidon Laboratories	Posted - 2008.09.10 20:44:00 - [179] I think it really doesn't matter what gender, however women do have the place and right to run for office - but that doesn't mean they will perform any better then a man would. Why that is: they are human They are human beings - that means they are as flawed and imperfect as any man who they may run with or against for a place of office. They are capable of feeling the same things as men, and bleed no different then any man would. To assume that a woman or man will be free from certain flaws, over the other, is ignorant. To assume that a woman will play a role in office better then a man, just because they are a woman, is ignorant. I have no problem with women - on the contrary I absolutly adore women, however I am just bringing it out into the open that putting false hopes into a political candidate based on their gender will usually lead to disappointment. Pick a leader for being a good leader, don't turn democracy into a "who has the hottest ****" contest - like the Americans do. Note I am born and raised in Maryland. It is the strength, intelligence, character, and wisdom that defines wither a not a person will be a eligible candidate - not their gender or bra-size. I refuse to vote and contribute to electing numerous crooks into office where I am from - but if I did someday change my mind and decide to vote again, I would pick someone for their attributes that define wither or not they are a leader, or just another sad little corrupt dried up meat-bag. I would with great ease vote for a woman over a man if they are the best choice, however, I could also just as easily vote for a man over a woman if the man is the best choice. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu
Amastat Caldari Poseidon Laboratories	Posted - 2008.09.10 20:45:00 - [180] I think it really doesn't matter what gender, however women do have the place and right to run for office - but that doesn't mean they will perform any better then a man would. Why that is: they are human They are human beings - that means they are as flawed and imperfect as any man who they may run with or against for a place of office. They are capable of feeling the same things as men, and bleed no different then any man would. To assume that a woman or man will be free from certain flaws, over the other, is ignorant. To assume that a woman will play a role in office better then a man, just because they are a woman, is ignorant. I have no problem with women - on the contrary I absolutly adore women, however I am just bringing it out into the open that putting false hopes into a political candidate based on their gender will usually lead to disappointment. Pick a leader for being a good leader, don't turn democracy into a "who has the hottest ****" contest - like the Americans do. Note I am born and raised in Maryland. It is the strength, intelligence, character, and wisdom that defines wither a not a person will be a eligible candidate - not their gender or bra-size. I refuse to vote and contribute to electing numerous crooks into office where I am from - but if I did someday change my mind and decide to vote again, I would pick someone for their attributes that define wither or not they are a leader, or just another sad little corrupt dried up meat-bag. I would with great ease vote for a woman over a man if they are the best choice, however, I could also just as easily vote for a man over a woman if the man is the best choice. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Umbra Synergy Final Retribution Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.11 01:15:00 - [181] you people don't seem to understand the penguins are coming, your debate is pointless they will RULE YOU! Applebabe ate my signature :( but the fish hat forgives! Nemotology is the EvE religion of choice!
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.11 15:48:00 - [182] Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 11/09/2008 15:56:32 I've revised my earlier opinions somewhat. I think the problem is America has more to do with the ongoing struggle for power between the liberal and conservative mindsets. The conservative mindsets are more grounded in Puritanical ideals, and thus have a higher propensity to be somewhat old fashioned when it comes to choosing leaders, but they do seem to be open to a sufficiently conservative female in power, over a liberal. This is all based on recent news. Until we can truly pick the best leader - regardless of political affliation, religion, gender or who or what they want to do in their free time, we will remain ****ed. My cultural observations still stand (and I still absolutely believe there's that undercurrent in American culture - especially Conservative culture). P.S. No fair. The Put Men in Charge post got locked. I call shenanigans .
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.11 17:47:00 - [183] Originally by: Amandin Adouin Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 11/09/2008 16:47:09 I've revised my earlier opinions somewhat. Based on recent news of the presidential race and my own thinking about this more in depth, I think the problem is America has more to do with the ongoing struggle for power between the liberal and conservative mindsets. The conservative mindsets are more grounded in Puritanical ideals, and thus have a higher propensity to be somewhat old fashioned when it comes to choosing leaders, but they do seem to be open to a sufficiently conservative female in power, over a liberal. Until we can truly pick the best leader - regardless of political affliation, religion, gender or who or what they want to do in their free time, we will remain **ed. If someone isn't qualified to do the job, they shouldn't get picked just because they sit on the same aisle as you politically or religiously, and they certainly shouldn't get picked just for their gender. My cultural observations still stand. And I still absolutely believe there's that undercurrent in American culture - especially conservative culture, just because they tend to be more old fashioned; although Liberals aren't exactly perfect by any means either. Anyway my point is that we need to start picking potential leaders for who they are, not their demographic profiles or non-political leanings. Personally, I don't limit my votes by anything (McCain, Obama, Clinton - they'd all be fine presidents). P.S. No fair. The Put Men in Charge post got locked. I call shenanigans . But isn't the 'liberal' and 'conservative' tag mearly a means to help a person align his ideals with those of his leaders? I mean, aren't they choosing the 'best leader', one who will represent their conservative viewpoints? And personally, while I can ignore political affiliation, race and gender (it means very little difference), I cannot ignore a persons religion, nor who or what they want to do in their free time. A leader is held to a higher standard than those he leads, and one with moral shortcomings (everyone of course defining their own morality) would be more inclined to underhanded deals and illegal activities. Bill Clinton was a proliferate drug user, and while I don't mind drug use personally, he still did so and disrespected the law. This was also true in his being an elected official in my home state, reportedly aiding in the transportation of drugs from South America into the US using landing sites in Arkansas. He is then accused of several scandals in office, not the least of which (though hidden through the Lewenski scandal) being his 'war on drugs' which is rumored to have transported millions of kilo's of *** and ***** into the states, where they were reported 'destroyed' ... while a month later, drug use and drug related arrests go up exponentially. And religion: a truly religious person can NEVER put their religion aside in their decision making processes. Their religion defines their morals, their values, their priorities and their decision making tendencies. There are many religions where I feel the INTENT is good, but the exact means are wrong ... an example being the general treatment of women in Christianity, for instance. And someone who is willing to profess a religion, and then 'put it aside' in his leadership duties? Would he be willing to put his allegiences and promises to the public who elected him aside, as well, if he felt it was good 'leadership'? Far too many elements go into electing a leader, and of course, they should. As many have harassed Palin over, she seems willing to allow her own daughter the choice of abortion or keeping the child, but is a hardline conservative who has repeatedly protested 'free choice' laws. Is there not something hypocritical there? Originally by:** CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
TimMc Gallente SolaR KillerS	Posted - 2008.09.11 18:08:00 - [184] This thread reminds me of Fishspeakers for some reason...
Of Montreal Gallente The Sunshine Club	Posted - 2008.09.12 03:16:00 - [185] Originally by: JAQUE ALERA I've been thinking about this today. Why not give them a shot? Look around and judge how great a job men have done for the world. Men destroy. Women create. Men conquer. Women communicate. Tired of destruction and threats. Encourage women into leadership roles. Ok how does "President of Cooking Me a Chicken Pot Pie" sound? Maybe you can tell my woman to create me some clean clothes.
B0rn2KiLL Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.12 03:43:00 - [186] observe nature. OP's an idiot. --- Originally by: Oveur It's important to understand that EVE is a "PvP" focused game
kessah Suicidal Tendencies Ltd	Posted - 2008.09.12 04:06:00 - [187] Generalisation isnt a good thing, thus why its dependant on the person, not there sex.

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