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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
501
   |
Posted - 2012.04.02 16:34:00 -
[1381] - Quote
Lanasak wrote:Mr Kidd wrote:Except the part outlining how he's going to present, in front of thousands of people at fanfest, people for whom Mitanni wants to commit suicide.
From your reply I've never seen a more clear cut case of selective perception. it's like you're deliberately ignoring the fact that he did not talk about singling a vulnerable player out you're the clear-cut case of selective perception, you want to conclude that it was premeditated so again, what he did at fanfest has nothing to do with what he said in the interview
I'm sorry, did you miss the part where he DID single out a specific player to the point of spelling his name for the benefit of drunken crowd members?
We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Kara Roideater
Perkone
Caldari State
135
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 16:35:00 -
[1382] - Quote
Lanasak wrote:There is a huge difference between what he said in that video and what he said at Fanfest. To use that recording as any evidence of the Fanfest debacle being "premeditated" is simple posturing. Get over it.
You're right. In that video he only says he intends to tell people to commit suicide by himself, whereas at fanfest he ended up encouraging others to contribute towards that end. Now, it's true that that is a significant difference. But the Mittani's 'apology' kind of implied that he was sorry about the whole suicide thing and shocked and ashamed that he might have done anything to encourage someone suicidal to go down that road. It certainly didn't state that encouraging people to kill themselves was just business as usual and that he only overstepped the mark by encouraging others to join in.
In any case, if you want people to approach such data rationally and in a reasonable way, you might want to lead by example. The continuous goon efforts at deflection and justification are what has kept this a live issue for so long. |
Lanasak
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 16:35:00 -
[1383] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:I'm sorry, did you miss the part where he DID single out a specific player to the point of spelling his name for the benefit of drunken associates?
in the interview? or at fanfest?
we're talking about two separate events here bro keep up |
Lanasak
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 16:38:00 -
[1384] - Quote
Kara Roideater wrote:You're right. In that video he only says he intends to tell people to commit suicide by himself, whereas at fanfest he ended up encouraging others to contribute towards that end. Now, it's true that that is a significant difference. But the Mittani's 'apology' kind of implied that he was sorry about the whole suicide thing and shocked and ashamed that he might have done anything to encourage someone suicidal to go down that road. It certainly didn't state that encouraging people to kill themselves was just business as usual and that he only overstepped the mark by encouraging others to join in.
He overstepped the mark by pointing out a vulnerable player rather than saying some tired catchphrase. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
501
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 16:44:00 -
[1385] - Quote
Lanasak wrote:Mr Kidd wrote:I'm sorry, did you miss the part where he DID single out a specific player to the point of spelling his name for the benefit of drunken associates?
in the interview? or at fanfest? we're talking about two separate events here bro keep up
They are only two separate events as a matter of when they occurred. Mitanni confessed his intent in the January video. Mitanni followed through by doing exactly that, going to fanfest, soliciting others to push a player to the point of suicide. Both videos, "drinks with bolton" and the fanfest alliance panel a irrevocably linked. One forecasts the action. The other is the action.
It's akin to someone calling you and threatening violence against you with laughter heard in the background months in advance giving you a specific date and time they're going to do it. Then, someone shows up and beats you exactly at the time and date they said they would. You would have us believe, in that instance that you would be completely befuddled and your police report would not reflect the phone call? *face palm*
We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Kara Roideater
Perkone
Caldari State
135
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 16:46:00 -
[1386] - Quote
Lanasak wrote:Kara Roideater wrote:You're right. In that video he only says he intends to tell people to commit suicide by himself, whereas at fanfest he ended up encouraging others to contribute towards that end. Now, it's true that that is a significant difference. But the Mittani's 'apology' kind of implied that he was sorry about the whole suicide thing and shocked and ashamed that he might have done anything to encourage someone suicidal to go down that road. It certainly didn't state that encouraging people to kill themselves was just business as usual and that he only overstepped the mark by encouraging others to join in. He overstepped the mark by pointing out a vulnerable player rather than saying some tired catchphrase.
He overstepped the mark by combining the two. He didn't just indicate the vulnerable player, he indicated him specifically in the context of that kind of 'catchphrase'.
I'm sure you'll agree that a major element in the whole clusterfuck is that a phrase that is actually quite serious and is treated as having serious implications if used towards people in RL has become overly trivialised in the minds of many eve players, to the extent that they forget WHY it is offensive and only remember THAT it is offensive. |
Lanasak
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 16:47:00 -
[1387] - Quote
so, in that interview, he specifically said that he was going to tell fanfest attendees to target a hisec ice miner who vaguely expressed suicidal ideations? |
Lanasak
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 16:48:00 -
[1388] - Quote
Kara Roideater wrote:Lanasak wrote:Kara Roideater wrote:You're right. In that video he only says he intends to tell people to commit suicide by himself, whereas at fanfest he ended up encouraging others to contribute towards that end. Now, it's true that that is a significant difference. But the Mittani's 'apology' kind of implied that he was sorry about the whole suicide thing and shocked and ashamed that he might have done anything to encourage someone suicidal to go down that road. It certainly didn't state that encouraging people to kill themselves was just business as usual and that he only overstepped the mark by encouraging others to join in. He overstepped the mark by pointing out a vulnerable player rather than saying some tired catchphrase. He overstepped the mark by combining the two. He didn't just indicate the vulnerable player, he indicated him specifically in the context of that kind of 'catchphrase'. I'm sure you'll agree that a major element in the whole clusterfuck is that a phrase that is actually quite serious and is treated as having serious implications if used towards people in RL has become overly trivialised in the minds of many eve players, to the extent that they forget WHY it is offensive and only remember THAT it is offensive.
none of this makes it "premeditated" |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
501
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 16:50:00 -
[1389] - Quote
Lanasak wrote:Kara Roideater wrote:Lanasak wrote:Kara Roideater wrote:You're right. In that video he only says he intends to tell people to commit suicide by himself, whereas at fanfest he ended up encouraging others to contribute towards that end. Now, it's true that that is a significant difference. But the Mittani's 'apology' kind of implied that he was sorry about the whole suicide thing and shocked and ashamed that he might have done anything to encourage someone suicidal to go down that road. It certainly didn't state that encouraging people to kill themselves was just business as usual and that he only overstepped the mark by encouraging others to join in. He overstepped the mark by pointing out a vulnerable player rather than saying some tired catchphrase. He overstepped the mark by combining the two. He didn't just indicate the vulnerable player, he indicated him specifically in the context of that kind of 'catchphrase'. I'm sure you'll agree that a major element in the whole clusterfuck is that a phrase that is actually quite serious and is treated as having serious implications if used towards people in RL has become overly trivialised in the minds of many eve players, to the extent that they forget WHY it is offensive and only remember THAT it is offensive. none of this makes it "premeditated"
All I can say is, another Mitanni alt detected. It's not even a nice try Alex. It's a sorry attempt to unlink a clear line of evidence.
We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Azran Zala
Sicarius.
When Hippos Attack
12
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 16:52:00 -
[1390] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:
Besides that he intended to ridicle the antics of miners and titan pilots.
And the person that he specifically named was a miner. Got me again. Absolutely no correlation what-so-ever. The logic is strong in you!
He could have said he planned to make fun of people who drink tea, and a month later describes a ridiculous mail he recieved from a miner who happens to enjoy tea.
He made slides & joked about examples of ridiculous mails he recieves from several demographics of eve, not a personal attack singleing out one specific person.
And at no time did he state in the beers with bolton vid that he planned to single out any specific person(s) by name.
and a one and a two and a ching chong potato |
oldbutfeelingyoung
VIRTUAL EMPIRE VANGUARD
Vanguard Ascendants
527
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 16:56:00 -
[1391] - Quote
Azran Zala wrote:Mr Kidd wrote:
Besides that he intended to ridicle the antics of miners and titan pilots.
And the person that he specifically named was a miner. Got me again. Absolutely no correlation what-so-ever. The logic is strong in you!
He could have said he planned to make fun of people who drink tea, and a month later describes a ridiculous mail he recieved from a miner who happens to enjoy tea. He made slides & joked about examples of ridiculous mails he recieves from several demographics of eve, not a personal attack singleing out one specific person. And at no time did he state in the beers with bolton vid that he planned to single out any specific person(s) by name.
but he did made that crazy move and now there are 10058 people crying ,bc he ****** up
pushing that button ,not expecting something.
But suddenly the door opens and the next thing i see myself flooting in space,just before i wake up again.
thank god for clones |
Azran Zala
Sicarius.
When Hippos Attack
12
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 17:01:00 -
[1392] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
but he did made that crazy move and now there are 10058 people crying ,bc he ****** up
I agree he may have made a stupid comment, but its a far cry from premeditated assisted suicide or murder.
and a one and a two and a ching chong potato |
Kara Roideater
Perkone
Caldari State
135
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 17:03:00 -
[1393] - Quote
Lanasak wrote:Kara Roideater wrote:Lanasak wrote:Kara Roideater wrote:You're right. In that video he only says he intends to tell people to commit suicide by himself, whereas at fanfest he ended up encouraging others to contribute towards that end. Now, it's true that that is a significant difference. But the Mittani's 'apology' kind of implied that he was sorry about the whole suicide thing and shocked and ashamed that he might have done anything to encourage someone suicidal to go down that road. It certainly didn't state that encouraging people to kill themselves was just business as usual and that he only overstepped the mark by encouraging others to join in. He overstepped the mark by pointing out a vulnerable player rather than saying some tired catchphrase. He overstepped the mark by combining the two. He didn't just indicate the vulnerable player, he indicated him specifically in the context of that kind of 'catchphrase'. I'm sure you'll agree that a major element in the whole clusterfuck is that a phrase that is actually quite serious and is treated as having serious implications if used towards people in RL has become overly trivialised in the minds of many eve players, to the extent that they forget WHY it is offensive and only remember THAT it is offensive. none of this makes it "premeditated"
I don't believe I have said it does. However, the sense of premeditated with which you are working is very narrow and only addresses one aspect of what was said but with regard to that aspect I think you are probably right. I think you would have a much harder time arguing that there was no premeditation with respect to going to Fanfest and deliberately offending people by encouraging them to kill themselves. What we ended up seeing was the unfortunate intersection of that plan and an extemporaneous remark. But those kinds of results are the almost inevitable consequences of the kind of thing that we see in the earlier video. |
Azran Zala
Sicarius.
When Hippos Attack
12
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 17:07:00 -
[1394] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:Lanasak wrote:
none of this makes it "premeditated"
All I can say is, another Mitanni alt detected. It's not even a nice try Alex. It's a sorry attempt to unlink a clear line of evidence.
Oh look resorting back to baseless accusations in lieu of lack of argument.
Are you even trying to form a cohesive sentence or are you just banging your keyboard with your head?
and a one and a two and a ching chong potato |
oldbutfeelingyoung
VIRTUAL EMPIRE VANGUARD
Vanguard Ascendants
527
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 17:13:00 -
[1395] - Quote
Azran Zala wrote:Mr Kidd wrote:Lanasak wrote:
none of this makes it "premeditated"
All I can say is, another Mitanni alt detected. It's not even a nice try Alex. It's a sorry attempt to unlink a clear line of evidence. Oh look resorting back to baseless accusations in lieu of lack of argument. Are you even trying to form a cohesive sentence or are you just banging your keyboard with your head?
a lot of Goons have QWERTY in mirror writing al over their forehead lately ,how come?
pushing that button ,not expecting something.
But suddenly the door opens and the next thing i see myself flooting in space,just before i wake up again.
thank god for clones |
Azran Zala
Sicarius.
When Hippos Attack
12
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 17:16:00 -
[1396] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
a lot of Goons have QWERTY in mirror writing al over their forehead lately ,how come?
Im laughing too hard at the thought right now to come up with a sly answer.
and a one and a two and a ching chong potato |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
501
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 17:19:00 -
[1397] - Quote
Azran Zala wrote:Mr Kidd wrote:Lanasak wrote:
none of this makes it "premeditated"
All I can say is, another Mitanni alt detected. It's not even a nice try Alex. It's a sorry attempt to unlink a clear line of evidence. Oh look resorting back to baseless accusations in lieu of lack of argument. Are you even trying to form a cohesive sentence or are you just banging your keyboard with your head?
Yes, it's actually a sentence, but requires a modicum of grammatical aptitude to recognize it as such. Is it the big words or the comma's that is causing your confusion?
I only resort to baseless accusations after significant attempts to describe the situation irrefutably and have people refute it. When someone says they're going to do something giving a date, time and place they're going to do it, then shows up at the exact location, date and time they said they would and do exactly what they said they'd do....well, yeah, can't really see how you and others can insist that the two incidents are not related. Should I conclude that your mental faculties are deficient and start using pictures?
Doesn't really matter. You're either Mitanni or troll. And since we know Mitanni is a troll, I did take a leap of logic and assume you were Mitanni. Now, how about using a worn out cliche' in response?
We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Lanasak
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 17:22:00 -
[1398] - Quote
sorry, but when you're dragging the lead game designer into this you're going too far
drop the hatchet already |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
501
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 17:25:00 -
[1399] - Quote
Lanasak wrote:sorry, but when you're dragging the lead game designer into this you're going too far
drop the hatchet already
I didn't drag the lead designer into anything. It sounds as if he participated in the "drinks with bolton" interview of his on volition.
We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Azran Zala
Sicarius.
When Hippos Attack
12
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 17:27:00 -
[1400] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:
When someone says they're going to do something giving a date, time and place they're going to do it, then shows up at the exact location, date and time they said they would and do exactly what they said they'd do....well, yeah, can't really see how you and others can insist that the two incidents are not related. Should I conclude that your mental faculties are deficient and start using pictures?
He said he wants to tell miners, titan pilots, whiners, etc to go kill themselves.
He did no such thing.
Nor was his presentation at the alliance panel inappropriate.
The only discussion about what he may have done wrong, was if during the Q&A session he insisted that others harrass a specific ingame character in response to a CCP employee's comment about that char's last known location.
And one does not have to be bias (goons/mittani) or a troll to wade through a load of speculation and superfluous ranting to take the opertunity to point out the weakness in others arguments, and present an opposite opinion.
and a one and a two and a ching chong potato |
Lanasak
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 17:27:00 -
[1401] - Quote
no, whoever decided to dig up that video got him involved
you're going too far, just drop the hatchet and walk away |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
501
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 17:37:00 -
[1402] - Quote
Lanasak wrote:no, whoever decided to dig up that video got him involved
you're going too far, just drop the hatchet and walk away
No, I'm pretty sure that when someone plans to break a law or EULA or TOS or any other rule set for which there are consequences, anyone that passively stands by and allows it to happen might have some liability. Because someone found evidence to that fact doesn't make them a party guilty of anything or by proxy involved Soundwave. He involved himself and as soon as suicide was mentioned he should have excused himself from the conversation and informed his superiors. That's otherwise know as CYA - covering your own ass.
Had he done so, perhaps they actually would have reviewed Mitanni's presentation and outlined certain things he was to avoid at all costs and this situation never would have happened.
Stop transferring your resentment from those who made this fiasco happen or who allowed it to happen to those who are pointing out how it happened.
We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Lanasak
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 17:43:00 -
[1403] - Quote
CCP has already made their decision on this matter with the 30 day ban and removal from the CSM. I realize that you are a paragon of morality but when you're putting people's livelihoods on the line you're going too far, especially over some non-event that turned into an unnecessary media circus. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
VIRTUAL EMPIRE VANGUARD
Vanguard Ascendants
529
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 17:46:00 -
[1404] - Quote
Azran Zala wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
a lot of Goons have QWERTY in mirror writing al over their forehead lately ,how come?
Im laughing too hard at the thought right now to come up with a sly answer.
at least i made somebody laugh today .
But everybody must remember Goon or anti -Goon these forums are watched now by a lot of gaming-blog or - websites
The longer we will let this go on ,well fill in the rest.
I don,t like what Mittani did ,but i don,t want this to last this forever and ever
pushing that button ,not expecting something.
But suddenly the door opens and the next thing i see myself flooting in space,just before i wake up again.
thank god for clones |
Kara Roideater
Perkone
Caldari State
136
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 17:55:00 -
[1405] - Quote
Lanasak wrote:CCP has already made their decision on this matter with the 30 day ban and removal from the CSM. I realize that you are a paragon of morality but when you're putting people's livelihoods on the line you're going too far, especially over some non-event that turned into an unnecessary media circus.
Now, if only people would accept that there was a genuine problem and not a 'non-event' then there would really be nothing left to talk about but as long as the propaganda machine keeps on pushing the damage limitation line other people are going to push back.
Edit - Basically, take it on the chin, stop trying to minimise what was a fairly serious thing and you remove the motivation for other people to paint it as a VERY serious thing by way of counterbalance. |
Azran Zala
Sicarius.
When Hippos Attack
12
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 18:01:00 -
[1406] - Quote
Kara Roideater wrote:
Now, if only people would accept that there was a genuine problem and not a 'non-event' then there would really be nothing left to talk about but as long as the propaganda machine keeps on pushing the damage limitation line other people are going to push back.
Edit - Basically, take it on the chin, stop trying to minimise what was a fairly serious thing and you remove the motivation for other people to paint it as a VERY serious thing by way of counterbalance.
And as long as speculators continue to blow it out of proportion or inflate it to conspiracy levels, there will be some willing to call bullsh*t on their dribble.
But I think for my own sanity and before my IQ starts dropping (if not too late) im going to bail from this thread.
and a one and a two and a ching chong potato |
Lanasak
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 18:04:00 -
[1407] - Quote
Kara Roideater wrote:Now, if only people would accept that there was a genuine problem and not a 'non-event' then there would really be nothing left to talk about
Nonsense. You took it upon yourself to take a YouTube video, post it in two separate threads and try to shift the discussion towards this "new evidence" while dragging in CCP Soundwave. Another guy (or your alt) posted it in GD and it was locked. Nobody is debating the morality of what he did - Mittani screwed up. You, however, are willing to take down the lead game designer in pursuit of some agenda. |
Kale Kold
the unified
Negative Ten.
70
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 18:12:00 -
[1408] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:Kale Kold wrote:If it was all pre-meditated then Mittani should be permabanned! It was premeditated. The slide proved it. The "Drinks with Bolton" video from January of this year is overwhelming proof that Mittens had been planning this for at least 3 months. Drunkenness doesn't even begin to work as an excuse. If this were in a court this would be an open and closed case of premeditated cyber-bullying. The "Drinks with Bolton" video also proves that CCP is complicit in this whole fiasco. No wonder they're locking every thread about the situation except this one buried in the Dev blogs that are about as navigable as a maze with no exit. Should real authorities get involved I would not want to be Hilmar. "Drinks with Bolton" featuring CCP Soundwave http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTRQ05Bqq_E&feature=player_detailpage#t=440s
Although this video has now mysteriously been deleted i heard for myself that Mitanni had planned this for a long time.
I totally agree he should be permanently banned from the game.
This could result in criminal action. Inciting a vulnerable member of society to kill themselves has been prosecuted before and if CCP don't act it reflects bad on them.
Here in the UK it's treated extremely seriously.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/mar/19/campaign-new-homicide-law-inciting-suicide
CCP ought to check with their lawyers as i bet this guy could sue!
GÇ£Some people call me insane for the destruction-áIGÇÖve caused, ...I believe I was just doing my duty!GÇ¥
-- Testimony submitted to Caldari Navy war crimes tribunal. |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
195
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 18:19:00 -
[1409] - Quote
Kale Kold wrote:Mr Kidd wrote:Kale Kold wrote:If it was all pre-meditated then Mittani should be permabanned! It was premeditated. The slide proved it. The "Drinks with Bolton" video from January of this year is overwhelming proof that Mittens had been planning this for at least 3 months. Drunkenness doesn't even begin to work as an excuse. If this were in a court this would be an open and closed case of premeditated cyber-bullying. The "Drinks with Bolton" video also proves that CCP is complicit in this whole fiasco. No wonder they're locking every thread about the situation except this one buried in the Dev blogs that are about as navigable as a maze with no exit. Should real authorities get involved I would not want to be Hilmar. "Drinks with Bolton" featuring CCP Soundwave http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTRQ05Bqq_E&feature=player_detailpage#t=440s Although this video has now mysteriously been deleted i heard for myself that Mitanni had planned this for a long time. I totally agree he should be permanently banned from the game. This could result in criminal action. Inciting a vulnerable member of society to kill themselves has been prosecuted before and if CCP don't act it reflects bad on them. Here in the UK it's treated extremely seriously. Quote:
"There has to be some means of ensuring that those responsible for causing someone to take their life, are held criminally liable. The current state of affairs in untenable and cannot therefore be justified,"
Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/mar/19/campaign-new-homicide-law-inciting-suicideCCP ought to check with their lawyers as i bet this guy could sue!
You don't think they're talking about assisted suicide in that quote? Really?
You think that they're talking about people saying mean things? ******* really?
Because last time I checked the main person responsible in an act of killing oneself is---ONESELF.
All that person's life built up to that moment and you want to hold the ninny responsible who said the last mean thing?
******* really?
He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller.
-Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Azran Zala
Sicarius.
When Hippos Attack
12
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 18:20:00 -
[1410] - Quote
Kale Kold wrote:Although this video has now mysteriously been deleted i heard for myself that Mitanni had planned this for a long time. I totally agree he should be permanently banned from the game. This could result in criminal action. Inciting a vulnerable member of society to kill themselves has been prosecuted before and if CCP don't act it reflects bad on them. Here in the UK it's treated extremely seriously. Quote:
"There has to be some means of ensuring that those responsible for causing someone to take their life, are held criminally liable. The current state of affairs in untenable and cannot therefore be justified,"
Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/mar/19/campaign-new-homicide-law-inciting-suicideCCP ought to check with their lawyers as i bet this guy could sue!
The video mentioned no such thing about targeting anyone for harasment.
And the your link discibes cases of a real people being victim of harassment and physical abuse.
Not an anonymous alias being ridiculed in a game.
In the real world there is no escape for the person being victimised besides "jumping off a bridge".
And a game there is an alternative: CRTL-Q, or in this case, using the other 21 alternative aliases, or writing a petition.
and a one and a two and a ching chong potato |
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