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Ceremony Garp
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Posted - 2008.09.24 09:04:00 -
[1]
First off, I must state that I have absolutely no issues at all with any ships in EvE. I am nowhere near qualified to moan about one ship being more powerful than another in it's effect on gameplay.
I've been watching a lot of player posted video's and one of the main aspects that never ceases to impress me is how some players have absolutely no hesitation in engaging odds much superior than themselves. Often against multiple targets with each target in itself more than capable of providing a decent 1 v 1, those guys simply wade in. It's very inspiring. [Garmon being one I admire].
However, there is one question I have to ask. That is, if those amongst you with this violent affliction, lol, see a Falcon in the system does this halt you from taking people on?
I suppose this is something of a loaded question because it's mainly aimed at those who solo. Inspired by Garmon's video Gamonation5final, I took on a Mega, a Vexor and a Ranis in a belt in low sec' last night. I killed the Vexor, the Ranis legged it  [I was in a Damnation] and still had plenty of cap charges to take on the Mega [EW drones helped me a lot btw] but I had neglected to keep a sharp one on my scanner and a Falcon showed up. I ended up getting toasted even though it took some time. Would any of you still engage knowing there is a Falcon around and if so, do you think this [the Falcon] is spoiling things a wee bit too much?
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Rajere
No Trademark
Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.24 09:15:00 -
[2]
wouldn't surprise me in the least if the people making the gungho videos had falcon alts themselves on standby, in fact it's probably what makes them so willing to engage. Not thinking of anyone in particular, just that i've seen videos where ppl who should have died didn't and you have to wonder why? That mega got you webbed, you were melting, bleeding structure even, why did the mega's DPS suddenly drop to zero? why did he suddenly unweb you so you could escape out to a safer orbit? The fight just started and you aren't using neuts, there's no way he's out of cap....oh well grats on the solo kill in the thorax or whatever.
How to Fail at Eve
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.24 09:36:00 -
[3]
Having a Falcon in gang (ie: usually me) means that we are willing to engage larger gangs than the one we're in.
Although lately I've been telling FCs to get bent: I'm bored of jamming, and it's someone else's turn.
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Ceremony Garp
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Posted - 2008.09.24 09:39:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Rajere
wouldn't surprise me in the least if the people making the gungho videos had falcon alts themselves on standby, in fact it's probably what makes them so willing to engage. Not thinking of anyone in particular, just that i've seen videos where ppl who should have died didn't and you have to wonder why? That mega got you webbed, you were melting, bleeding structure even, why did the mega's DPS suddenly drop to zero? why did he suddenly unweb you so you could escape out to a safer orbit? The fight just started and you aren't using neuts, there's no way he's out of cap....oh well grats on the solo kill in the thorax or whatever.
Sorry Rajere, I prolly didn't make ,myself clear. The Mega was helped by the Falcon, 'twas my Damnation that got toasted 
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Ceremony Garp
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Posted - 2008.09.24 09:40:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Malcanis
...Although lately I've been telling FCs to get bent: I'm bored of jamming, and it's someone else's turn.
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Cautet
Killer Koalas
Kingdom of Butan
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Posted - 2008.09.24 09:42:00 -
[6]
Many ships could have ruined your day.
I don't solo much. Last solo action i had was months ago in an Arazu. Some ships are going to ruin your day when you solo. You accept this when you undock. Like in any fight you engage when things are in your favour and hope you can disengage when they go against you. That can happen without anyone else joining fight. It can happen when another person joins the fight, or it can happen when a specific ship joins the fight. Recons especially are tricky, not just falcons. A curse or rapier can swing many fights, and definately would have been just as lethal to you. Even a t1 cruiser joining in can turn a fight you are winning into a loss.
In some cases even having belt rats repop can mess you up.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.24 09:57:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 24/09/2008 09:57:51
With a Falcon in the gang (often mine): willing to take on higher odds than normal. With the Falcon, I can count on 1-3 ships being removed from the hostile gang, so as long as that leaves the odds decently in my favor, I'll go for it and trust my jamming luck.
With a hostile Falcon around: will engage, but not against as difficult a target. The main concern is that my ewar will be stuck counter-jamming instead of taking hostile ships out of the fight, meaning the rest of my fleet had better have a clear advantage over the target without ewar support. Increase the odds if I've got sniper battleships/FoF Cerberus/Raven/etc to make the Falcon go away.
Same rules apply for Rooks/Scorpions of course, and to a lesser degree, Blackbirds and Kitsunes (nobody flies a Widow outside of the test server, and Griffins just suck). The only advantage the Falcon has is the ability to hide until the fight begins, so if you're talking about a scenario where I know it's there, the cloak doesn't matter. In fact, I'd be more afraid of a Rook.
Of course I don't fight fair, and I definitely don't go after superior targets. I fight to win and make a profit, not to lose money on 50/50 fights, so my caution around Falcons is more than someone like Garmon. What I find hillarious is when people who kamikaze into overwhelming (non-Falcon) odds if it'll give them an impressive video whine endlessly about Falcons being too dangerous to engage.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.09.24 09:59:00 -
[8]
You can pretty much forget soloing if you know they have a falcon. You either need your own falcon alt to counter it or a gang.
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[Video] Support Barrage |
ArmyOfMe
Pernicious Creed
Vendetta Alliance.
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Posted - 2008.09.24 10:33:00 -
[9]
let me just start of by saying that a very big portion of those ppl in the eve videos that goes around "solo" have falcon alts, and its usally the reason they have a chance to do what they do.
now to your question, if i know they have a falcon/rook im usally giving it a LOT more thought and usally come to the simple conclusion that its not even worth trying if im solo
Originally by: deadmaus
Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything |
Ceremony Garp
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Posted - 2008.09.24 10:39:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 24/09/2008 09:57:51
With a Falcon in the gang (often mine): willing to take on higher odds than normal. With the Falcon, I can count on 1-3 ships being removed from the hostile gang, so as long as that leaves the odds decently in my favor, I'll go for it and trust my jamming luck.
With a hostile Falcon around: will engage, but not against as difficult a target. The main concern is that my ewar will be stuck counter-jamming instead of taking hostile ships out of the fight, meaning the rest of my fleet had better have a clear advantage over the target without ewar support. Increase the odds if I've got sniper battleships/FoF Cerberus/Raven/etc to make the Falcon go away.
Same rules apply for Rooks/Scorpions of course, and to a lesser degree, Blackbirds and Kitsunes (nobody flies a Widow outside of the test server, and Griffins just suck). The only advantage the Falcon has is the ability to hide until the fight begins, so if you're talking about a scenario where I know it's there, the cloak doesn't matter. In fact, I'd be more afraid of a Rook.
Of course I don't fight fair, and I definitely don't go after superior targets. I fight to win and make a profit, not to lose money on 50/50 fights, so my caution around Falcons is more than someone like Garmon. What I find hillarious is when people who kamikaze into overwhelming (non-Falcon) odds if it'll give them an impressive video whine endlessly about Falcons being too dangerous to engage.
Aye Merin,
Although I've been playing since 04, I've only really been pvp'ing for a while and am still learning [bit difficult solo though. I've been in corporations but for one reason or another my corpmates weren't too keen on joining me; need a repper from another system, gotta' log soon, etc, etc  ]. One of my other characters runs missions that enables me to fund pvp ships so I'm not too fussed about isk [don't get me wrong, I don't like losing, but I can't learn any other way, and I always take something away from an engagement, even if it's just the opposition saying it was a helluva tank, gf, etc].
Gotta' love that adreno-surge, lol.
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Ceremony Garp
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Posted - 2008.09.24 10:40:00 -
[11]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
let me just start of by saying that a very big portion of those ppl in the eve videos that goes around "solo" have falcon alts, and its usally the reason they have a chance to do what they do.
Hmm, didn't consider that.
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
...now to your question, if i know they have a falcon/rook im usally giving it a LOT more thought and usally come to the simple conclusion that its not even worth trying if im solo
Aye, looks like I better had too. Ah well. Cheers for that.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.09.24 10:44:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ceremony Garp
However, there is one question I have to ask. That is, if those amongst you with this violent affliction, lol, see a Falcon in the system does this halt you from taking people on?
Yes. I set all Falcon pilots I see on our KB / see in space to negative standings. In case there is a pilot with negative standings and I cannot prove he's not in a Falcon, then he is and I do not engage (unless we have sufficient numbers to just outblob).
I have engaged a few times when I counted on the target going down before the Falcon gets on grid, but it was knowingly leeroying.
Originally by: Ceremony Garp
Would any of you still engage knowing there is a Falcon around and if so, do you think this [the Falcon] is spoiling things a wee bit too much?
No, of course I would not. It's pointless to sacrifice a ship in that manner. Fighting outnumbered can be fun, but giving people free killmails/loot is utterly pointless.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Firkragg
Blue Labs
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.09.24 10:45:00 -
[13]
it affects my decison about as much as a rapier affects my decision to engage in a nano ship or a curse affects my decision to engage in a curse.
falcon isnt overpowered it jsut feels that way when your being blobbed and a falcon keeps you perma jammed but that with you being the focus of all its jammers. Usually in bigger fights you still get nice periods where your not jammed where you can try and kill the falcon
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Ceremony Garp
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Posted - 2008.09.24 10:48:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
...Yes. I set all Falcon pilots I see on our KB / see in space to negative standings. In case there is a pilot with negative standings and I cannot prove he's not in a Falcon, then he is and I do not engage (unless we have sufficient numbers to just outblob)...
/me makes notes
Originally by: Cpt Branko
...I have engaged a few times when I counted on the target going down before the Falcon gets on grid, but it was knowingly leeroying...
Lol, 'leeroying'. Cool.
Originally by: Cpt Branko
... Originally by: Ceremony Garp
Would any of you still engage knowing there is a Falcon around and if so, do you think this [the Falcon] is spoiling things a wee bit too much?
No, of course I would not. It's pointless to sacrifice a ship in that manner. Fighting outnumbered can be fun, but giving people free killmails/loot is utterly pointless.
Aye, I'm coming around to this way of thinking after that fight.
Cheers for the tip about setting Falcon pilots to zero.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.09.24 10:50:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/09/2008 10:50:08
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[Video] Support Barrage |
Ceremony Garp
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Posted - 2008.09.24 10:52:00 -
[16]
I s'pose it's like a pub fight with a 1 v 2/3. You stand up for yourself or kick-off first. You do OK, take one out then some small pal of theirs shows up with all his kung-fu and you're buggered. 
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.09.24 10:54:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Firkragg
it affects my decison about as much as a rapier affects my decision to engage in a nano ship or a curse affects my decision to engage in a curse.
Yeah, but a Rapier you can force off in most conventional ships (it is devastating vs nanos, but not nearly as devastating vs other ships and can be countered by a huge number of conventional ships), and comparing Curses to Falcons is just laughable. How did you fit the covops cloak to a Curse?
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.09.24 10:57:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/09/2008 10:56:53
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Firkragg
it affects my decison about as much as a rapier affects my decision to engage in a nano ship or a curse affects my decision to engage in a curse.
Yeah, but a Rapier you can force off in most conventional ships (it is devastating vs nanos, but not nearly as devastating vs other ships and can be countered by a huge number of conventional ships), and comparing Curses to Falcons is just laughable. How did you fit the covops cloak to a Curse?
It's funny how they keep saying the same old things that don't make a point. I don't see people making an alt from scratch and paying another monthly fee for a curse alt or a rapier alt. The first name of every alt is primarily FALCON.
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[Video] Support Barrage |
LadyLubU2
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.09.24 11:02:00 -
[19]
Falcons destroyed the last tiny bit of solo pvp c/d?
Nerf falcons, no ship should be able to make sure 3-4 people get removed from the battlefield..
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BiggestT
Caldari
Space Oddysey
Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.09.24 11:03:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Malcanis
Having a Falcon in gang (ie: usually me) means that we are willing to engage larger gangs than the one we're in.
Although lately I've been telling FCs to get bent: I'm bored of jamming, and it's someone else's turn.
the cloaky-cloaky is hard to give up tho :P
Awesome EVE history
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ArmyOfMe
Pernicious Creed
Vendetta Alliance.
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Posted - 2008.09.24 11:05:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
The first name of every alt is primarily FALCON.
indeed, i even got 2
Originally by: deadmaus
Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything |
BiggestT
Caldari
Space Oddysey
Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.09.24 11:09:00 -
[22]
Originally by: LadyLubU2
Falcons destroyed the last tiny bit of solo pvp c/d?
Nerf falcons, no ship should be able to make sure 3-4 people get removed from the battlefield..
nerf idiots that know nothing about ship roles etc
Awesome EVE history
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Stuart Price
Caldari
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.09.24 11:10:00 -
[23]
Originally by: LadyLubU2
Falcons destroyed the last tiny bit of solo pvp c/d?
Nerf falcons, no ship should be able to make sure 3-4 people get removed from the battlefield..
No you're absolutely right. Nerf the Falcon's jamming ability - it can always use it's other abilities to... oh.
Nerf weapons, it's not right that one ship can *potentially* blow up 3 or 4 others. In other news, Falcons are a) not quite as obscenely powerful as many seem to think and b) very, very fragile.
"I got soul but I'm not a soldier" |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.09.24 11:18:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Stuart Price
Originally by: LadyLubU2
Falcons destroyed the last tiny bit of solo pvp c/d?
Nerf falcons, no ship should be able to make sure 3-4 people get removed from the battlefield..
No you're absolutely right. Nerf the Falcon's jamming ability - it can always use it's other abilities to... oh.
Nerf weapons, it's not right that one ship can *potentially* blow up 3 or 4 others. In other news, Falcons are a) not quite as obscenely powerful as many seem to think and b) very, very fragile.
How about nerfing their range down to 100km? That way they can only be used in gangs as support jammers and not 200km immune to interception pocket aces.
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[Video] Support Barrage |
ArmyOfMe
Pernicious Creed
Vendetta Alliance.
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Posted - 2008.09.24 11:20:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Stuart Price
Originally by: LadyLubU2
Falcons destroyed the last tiny bit of solo pvp c/d?
Nerf falcons, no ship should be able to make sure 3-4 people get removed from the battlefield..
No you're absolutely right. Nerf the Falcon's jamming ability - it can always use it's other abilities to... oh.
Nerf weapons, it's not right that one ship can *potentially* blow up 3 or 4 others. In other news, Falcons are a) not quite as obscenely powerful as many seem to think and b) very, very fragile.
How about nerfing their range down to 100km? That way they can only be used in gangs as support jammers and not 200km immune to interception pocket aces.
once the nano nerf is out i will agree that the range of the falcon jammers need to be nerfed, but atm they dont as current nano ships can be on top of a faclon in no time
Originally by: deadmaus
Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything |
Ceremony Garp
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Posted - 2008.09.24 11:24:00 -
[26]
Originally by: LadyLubU2
Falcons destroyed the last tiny bit of solo pvp c/d?
Nerf falcons, no ship should be able to make sure 3-4 people get removed from the battlefield..
LadyLubU2,
I don't know if I can agree with that tbh.
I've always played under the assumption that every obstacle can be adapted to and hopefully overcome. Sure, I suffer flying solo, but I could counter the inherent problems soloing brings by making more of an effort to find a corp that has the same ethos as me and heading out with someone who can help[ me stave off those pesky Falcons, lol.
Also, Falcons aren't impervious to being countered, we just have to expect them to be as effective as they are and have a counter-maneouvre. Yes, I know this is difficult, but I suppose this is why EvE grabs me the way it does - it's not easy and I have to use my noggin'.
I hear your frustration though! Last night I wasn't being anywhere near so understanding - oh, the cursing in my lounge! But all in all, I think that things are relatively balanced, although this is just my opinion of course.
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Ceremony Garp
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Posted - 2008.09.24 11:29:00 -
[27]
Just for the record, I'd like to reiterate that this was never intended to sound as a 'nerf Falcons' thread. I just wanted to know if experienced pilots who nfly solo would still engage if they knew a Falcon was around and about.
You could argue that this is an open ended question, but I have already learned a couple of things from answers supplied.
Nerf Falcons? Heck, there's an argument for nerfing life in general, lol, but we all still strive to overcome our own adversities. It's no real difference in EvE.
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Gneeznow
Minmatar
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.09.24 11:32:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
You can pretty much forget soloing if you know they have a falcon. You either need your own falcon alt to counter it or a gang.
qft, anytime I'm solo and I spot a falcon, I up and leave, half of what you can expect to see living the life of a solo'er is being ganked while a bar 'jamming' bar scrolls at the bottom of the screen to indicate you are perma jammed, good times
as for me having a falcon alt, I have an alt that can fly one but never use that char for falcon, I would much rather have that char in an oneiros or basilisk
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Rajere
No Trademark
Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.24 11:34:00 -
[29]
Sorry for the confusion, what I said earlier is what this poster said:
Quote:
let me just start of by saying that a very big portion of those ppl in the eve videos that goes around "solo" have falcon alts, and its usally the reason they have a chance to do what they do.
I wasn't saying you had the falcon alt. Some of the ppl who leeroy into things and make videos about it do.
regarding your question. Solo i absolutely would not bother trying if I knew they had ecm. In a gang? doesn't matter at all. I'll fight outnumbered, fight against falcons, multiple falcons, etc.
Keep in mind my small gang experience has traditionally been with A: other competent players who know how to pvp and B: includes a falcon in the gang. Sometimes we have 2, generally that's because 1 falcon is a newb still learning how to fly it properly and the other one is coaching, but 1 is fine. Now if they have like 3-4 falcons and they outnumber us, where as we only have 1? We'd still fight, but we'd wait for them to jump into us so we could gank all their falcons trying to get out of our bubble, we wouldn't jump into theirs. Otherwise, not that big a deal, still fight, still win usually.
How to Fail at Eve
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BiggestT
Caldari
Space Oddysey
Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.09.24 11:35:00 -
[30]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Stuart Price
Originally by: LadyLubU2
Falcons destroyed the last tiny bit of solo pvp c/d?
Nerf falcons, no ship should be able to make sure 3-4 people get removed from the battlefield..
No you're absolutely right. Nerf the Falcon's jamming ability - it can always use it's other abilities to... oh.
Nerf weapons, it's not right that one ship can *potentially* blow up 3 or 4 others. In other news, Falcons are a) not quite as obscenely powerful as many seem to think and b) very, very fragile.
How about nerfing their range down to 100km? That way they can only be used in gangs as support jammers and not 200km immune to interception pocket aces.
once the nano nerf is out i will agree that the range of the falcon jammers need to be nerfed, but atm they dont as current nano ships can be on top of a faclon in no time
That is like saying all long-range ships need to be nerfed to 100km due to nano nerf..I bet these ppl have never tried long-range pvp, and hence dont know its limitations thinking its an iwin option being long-range.
Nerfing falcon to 100km is just silly, it will insta-pop and be uzless, 200km is already dangerous for a falcon.
Also ppl dont realise that an interceptor can still get to speeds more or less similar post nano as is today..So that argument is moot.
Sorry for the derail op, just trying to set ppl straight :P
Awesome EVE history
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