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How Much Does A Falcon Affect Your Decision To Engage?

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Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.09.24 14:44:00 - [61] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/09/2008 13:47:03 Originally by: Omarvelous So no jamming at low-sec gates? If you're cutting their range in half - you would at least need to double their effective hp. The other recons operate at around 40km range. The "new" falcon at around 100km? Reasonable thing would be that its ehp should be around half the other recons, right? If it were up to me Id just stacking nerf ecm just like all other ew but make it bit more effective and have 100km range approx. That way people can fit 3 ecm and rest tank and all is good. You're wrong as usual. Other recons have dps - falcon does not. Stack nerf ecm and 100km - so a ship with no movement - crap tank, no dps, maybe jams 1 ship? Wow great solution. Just get it over with and say that if the Amarr aren't overpowered you're not happy. __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.09.24 14:48:00 - [62] Originally by: Omarvelous You're wrong as usual. Other recons have dps - falcon does not. Stack nerf ecm and 100km - so a ship with no movement - crap tank, no dps, maybe jams 1 ship? Wow great solution. Just get it over with and say that if the Amarr aren't overpowered you're not happy. Wait, so boosting ecm so 3 ecm modules are as effective as 5-6 leaving 4 mids for tanking/mwd will result in crap tank and no movement? Are you deliberately not reading my post or are you just very good at playing dumb? ----------------------------------------- [Video] Support Barrage
InsanlyEvlPerson Gallente Night-Stalkers	Posted - 2008.09.24 14:48:00 - [63] Originally by: BiggestT Originally by: ArmyOfMe Originally by: BiggestT Quote: dunno if you have tried the changes, but i can promise you that my interceptor with the nano changes that was on sisi was nowere near the same speed as i have on tq. closer to 1/3 of it actually 1/3!? I saw that base speeds were not affected, and thought that the mwd chages and overdrive changes wld affect it a little.. I thought that simply fitting nano-fibres and say one oi would get you to at least 2/3? Didnt realise it was such a harsh change, or did u just use an overdrive injector fit? i used my standard tranq fittings and even upgraded from low to high grade snakes on sisi, and still ships like my vaga went at half the speed it does currently. so for the falcon the nano nerf is actually quite a big boost as it will be a hell of a lot harder to get in range. thats why i want the range of ecm to be looked at once the nano nerf happens. If that doesnt happen we will be back here soon seeing ppl say that the only way to kill a falcon is a sniping bs, and then the whines start again just like ppl whined about having to use specialised ships and mods to stop nanos i know the vaga wont be v. fast but did you check interceptors? i thought theyd at least stillbe able to go 4-6k is that with a pimped setup or ur average T2 fitting? If it would take a pimped out fit to get 5-5.5km/s outta my sader, i can safely say i'd have it on the market faster than you can blieve.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.09.24 14:57:00 - [64] Edited by: Omarvelous on 24/09/2008 14:57:43 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Omarvelous You're wrong as usual. Other recons have dps - falcon does not. Stack nerf ecm and 100km - so a ship with no movement - crap tank, no dps, maybe jams 1 ship? Wow great solution. Just get it over with and say that if the Amarr aren't overpowered you're not happy. Wait, so boosting ecm so 3 ecm modules are as effective as 5-6 leaving 4 mids for tanking/mwd will result in crap tank and no movement? Are you deliberately not reading my post or are you just very good at playing dumb? ZING! Your post was vague - I'm not sure how you got boosted but stacking nerfed 3 ecm equaling 5-6 ecm modules in their current form... Signal distorion amps = not fast, no dcu, no damage mods. So yup its still slow and still a crap 3 slot tank. Keep up the good work! __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.24 14:57:00 - [65] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Omarvelous You're wrong as usual. Other recons have dps - falcon does not. Stack nerf ecm and 100km - so a ship with no movement - crap tank, no dps, maybe jams 1 ship? Wow great solution. Just get it over with and say that if the Amarr aren't overpowered you're not happy. Wait, so boosting ecm so 3 ecm modules are as effective as 5-6 leaving 4 mids for tanking/mwd will result in crap tank and no movement? Are you deliberately not reading my post or are you just very good at playing dumb? So what secondary ability would you give to the Falcon (and Rook) so that they're competitive with the other recons - Minmatar get webs, Gallente get scrams, Amarr get Capwar -because what good is a whopping 3-slot tank (very generous of you, btw) on a ship as fatally sluggish and so utterly lacking DPS (2 unbonused launcher slots!) as a Falcon?
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.09.24 14:59:00 - [66] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/09/2008 15:00:28 Originally by: Malcanis So what secondary ability would you give to the Falcon (and Rook) so that they're competitive with the other recons - Minmatar get webs, Gallente get scrams, Amarr get Capwar -because what good is a whopping 3-slot tank (very generous of you, btw) on a ship as fatally sluggish and so utterly lacking DPS (2 unbonused launcher slots!) as a Falcon? With some tweaks to ecm strength and range a drone bay would be in order. The ability to jam would be still the same. Added dps with drones and extra mids, by making ecm stacking nerfed but more efficient, for tank. The shorter range though would make it counterable by a wider range of ships. It would still jam very effective in a gang and would be able to protect itself against immediate tackle with neut and drones. ----------------------------------------- [Video] Support Barrage
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.09.24 15:00:00 - [67] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Omarvelous You're wrong as usual. Other recons have dps - falcon does not. Stack nerf ecm and 100km - so a ship with no movement - crap tank, no dps, maybe jams 1 ship? Wow great solution. Just get it over with and say that if the Amarr aren't overpowered you're not happy. Wait, so boosting ecm so 3 ecm modules are as effective as 5-6 leaving 4 mids for tanking/mwd will result in crap tank and no movement? Are you deliberately not reading my post or are you just very good at playing dumb? So what secondary ability would you give to the Falcon (and Rook) so that they're competitive with the other recons - Minmatar get webs, Gallente get scrams, Amarr get Capwar -because what good is a whopping 3-slot tank (very generous of you, btw) on a ship as fatally sluggish and so utterly lacking DPS (2 unbonused launcher slots!) as a Falcon? Missile enhancement mod: Increases missile explosion velocity on target by 50%. Give the missile chuckers a boner with your dual bonus __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.09.24 15:12:00 - [68] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/09/2008 15:00:28 Originally by: Malcanis So what secondary ability would you give to the Falcon (and Rook) so that they're competitive with the other recons - Minmatar get webs, Gallente get scrams, Amarr get Capwar -because what good is a whopping 3-slot tank (very generous of you, btw) on a ship as fatally sluggish and so utterly lacking DPS (2 unbonused launcher slots!) as a Falcon? With some tweaks to ecm strength and range a drone bay would be in order. The ability to jam would be still the same. Added dps with drones and extra mids, by making ecm stacking nerfed but more efficient, for tank. The shorter range though would make it counterable by a wider range of ships. It would still jam very effective in a gang and would be able to protect itself against immediate tackle with neut and drones. Caldari t2 cruisers never have, or will they ever have, drone bays. Face it Lyria you just want one ship that ACTUALLY makes EVE not-so-easy for your uber little amarrian char and u can just take out everything with pulses. Plz FLY our ships before demanding nerfs, i havnt ever, nor will i ever, propose a nerf for a ship that i havnt flown. Awesome EVE history
Ceremony Garp	Posted - 2008.09.24 15:14:00 - [69] Originally by: BiggestT Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/09/2008 15:00:28 Originally by: Malcanis So what secondary ability would you give to the Falcon (and Rook) so that they're competitive with the other recons - Minmatar get webs, Gallente get scrams, Amarr get Capwar -because what good is a whopping 3-slot tank (very generous of you, btw) on a ship as fatally sluggish and so utterly lacking DPS (2 unbonused launcher slots!) as a Falcon? With some tweaks to ecm strength and range a drone bay would be in order. The ability to jam would be still the same. Added dps with drones and extra mids, by making ecm stacking nerfed but more efficient, for tank. The shorter range though would make it counterable by a wider range of ships. It would still jam very effective in a gang and would be able to protect itself against immediate tackle with neut and drones. Caldari t2 cruisers never have, or will they ever have, drone bays. Face it Lyria you just want one ship that ACTUALLY makes EVE not-so-easy for your uber little amarrian char and u can just take out everything with pulses. Plz FLY our ships before demanding nerfs, i havnt ever, nor will i ever, propose a nerf for a ship that i havnt flown. Oh, I dunno Big', I think those meany Titans with their DD's are wayyyyyyy overpowered.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.09.24 15:16:00 - [70] Originally by: BiggestT Caldari t2 cruisers never have, or will they ever have, drone bays. Face it Lyria you just want one ship that ACTUALLY makes EVE not-so-easy for your uber little amarrian char and u can just take out everything with pulses. Plz FLY our ships before demanding nerfs, i havnt ever, nor will i ever, propose a nerf for a ship that i havnt flown. Actually I have a max skilled falcon alt. I do know what it can do but unlike you I don't 100% rely on the fact that I have a falcon to win engagements. You really have to face the reason why we are seeing hordes of falcons in eve and its only going to get worse after the speed nerf. ----------------------------------------- [Video] Support Barrage

Feng Schui Minmatar Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.09.24 15:17:00 - [71] When I'm solo'ing in the pilgrim, it depends on what other ship(s) there are. I very rarely knowingly engage more than 1 ship if I know there is a Falcon around. If there is a falcon backup, at least I can count on my drones to continue damaging the target, and I can manually fly around the gun tracking (or just tank it). On a side note, a week ago I engaged a Maelstrom on a gate (more accurately, he engaged me). Killed off all his ogre II's, then a geddon showed up. Killed off most of his drones (he recalled them), while maintaining a TD on each ship. It was going good until I decided to bail.. deactivated my modules, and tried to jump through the next side. Bad idea :p Project:Gank Pilgrim Guide
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.09.24 15:34:00 - [72] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer You can pretty much forget soloing if you know they have a falcon. You either need your own falcon alt to counter it or a gang. You can pretty much forget soloing if you know they have ANY second ship (at least any second ship that isn't a hopeless newbie). This is the real problem with these discussions, you're dying because you got ganked 2v1, not because there was a Falcon. A gank battleship, nano Curse, etc, would have the same end result. And nerfing Falcons to 100km? Stupid, stupid idea. It kills the ship in its primary role of fleet ewar (ships that can't hit at least 200km are not fleet ships) while doing very little to change the result of solo fights. Honestly, how many solo/small-gang pilots can really hit even 100km? Here's a hint: it's not very many. Most of the time I don't even bother using the full jamming range of my Falcon, I just warp in at 100km and that's good enough to be completely invulnerable.
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.09.24 15:42:00 - [73] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: BiggestT Caldari t2 cruisers never have, or will they ever have, drone bays. Face it Lyria you just want one ship that ACTUALLY makes EVE not-so-easy for your uber little amarrian char and u can just take out everything with pulses. Plz FLY our ships before demanding nerfs, i havnt ever, nor will i ever, propose a nerf for a ship that i havnt flown. Actually I have a max skilled falcon alt. I do know what it can do but unlike you I don't 100% rely on the fact that I have a falcon to win engagements. You really have to face the reason why we are seeing hordes of falcons in eve and its only going to get worse after the speed nerf. If you do have a falcon alt, then ud realise that they are far from perfect at not the "iwin" button their made out to be. Saying itll pwn when added after a solo situation is just silly, as any additional recon will turn the tide in your favour. Oh and if falcons are so great why dont u AND ur alt fly them? oh maybe coz they cant tank, have no dps etc..hey they ARENT so over-powered Awesome EVE history
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.09.24 15:46:00 - [74] Originally by: Merin Ryskin You can pretty much forget soloing if you know they have ANY second ship (at least any second ship that isn't a hopeless newbie). This is the real problem with these discussions, you're dying because you got ganked 2v1, not because there was a Falcon. A gank battleship, nano Curse, etc, would have the same end result. And nerfing Falcons to 100km? Stupid, stupid idea. It kills the ship in its primary role of fleet ewar (ships that can't hit at least 200km are not fleet ships) while doing very little to change the result of solo fights. Honestly, how many solo/small-gang pilots can really hit even 100km? Here's a hint: it's not very many. Most of the time I don't even bother using the full jamming range of my Falcon, I just warp in at 100km and that's good enough to be completely invulnerable. Not really. I mean say that a group of 4 BCs are camping a gate. I could go grab my BS and we could have a gf. Now if they are 3 BCs and 1 falcon you can pretty much forget any engagement without a group or a falcon alt. Besides there are few ships that can CLOAK and warp cloaked that can totally remove your dps from the fight. Curse, yeah but it cant warp cloaked between gates etc. Youll prolly spot it before the engagement. 100km immune falcon? Funny how everyone else says 100km falcon will be the end of it. Now wich is it? ----------------------------------------- [Video] Support Barrage
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.24 15:47:00 - [75] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/09/2008 15:00:28 Originally by: Malcanis So what secondary ability would you give to the Falcon (and Rook) so that they're competitive with the other recons - Minmatar get webs, Gallente get scrams, Amarr get Capwar -because what good is a whopping 3-slot tank (very generous of you, btw) on a ship as fatally sluggish and so utterly lacking DPS (2 unbonused launcher slots!) as a Falcon? With some tweaks to ecm strength and range a drone bay would be in order. The ability to jam would be still the same. Added dps with drones and extra mids, by making ecm stacking nerfed but more efficient, for tank. The shorter range though would make it counterable by a wider range of ships. It would still jam very effective in a gang and would be able to protect itself against immediate tackle with neut and drones. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the other recons also have drone bays. Unless you're going to advocate something truly drastic like giving 125mbit bandwidth or something, this would be a pretty poor excuse for a secondary ability. The only thing that might fly is a +20%/level boost to Speed, HP and strength of EW drones - not just the ECM, but the Web, TP and Neut drones. Actually... that might be pretty cool. I could work with that. But Falcon/Rook would need a significant tank and agility increase to make them plausible in that role. And a Curse-sized drone bay.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.09.24 15:48:00 - [76] Originally by: BiggestT If you do have a falcon alt, then ud realise that they are far from perfect at not the "iwin" button their made out to be. Saying itll pwn when added after a solo situation is just silly, as any additional recon will turn the tide in your favour. Oh and if falcons are so great why dont u AND ur alt fly them? oh maybe coz they cant tank, have no dps etc..hey they ARENT so over-powered Actually falcons are iwin buttons. They totally tilt small gang/solo engagements, especially when sub BS ships are involved. If you know you might be up against falcons you bring BS because eccm is only worth putting on a BS basically. This tilts the game towards BS slugfest + falcons and that is not what I would like to see. ----------------------------------------- [Video] Support Barrage
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.09.24 15:52:00 - [77] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: BiggestT If you do have a falcon alt, then ud realise that they are far from perfect at not the "iwin" button their made out to be. Saying itll pwn when added after a solo situation is just silly, as any additional recon will turn the tide in your favour. Oh and if falcons are so great why dont u AND ur alt fly them? oh maybe coz they cant tank, have no dps etc..hey they ARENT so over-powered Actually falcons are iwin buttons. They totally tilt small gang/solo engagements, especially when sub BS ships are involved. If you know you might be up against falcons you bring BS because eccm is only worth putting on a BS basically. This tilts the game towards BS slugfest + falcons and that is not what I would like to see. If that gang also has a falcon then it cancels out, now i know what ur gonna say, "Ya right, the only counter is another copy" Well so what? Pretty much any gang that goes up agaisnt another gang is gimped if one has a recon and the other doesnt..rapier? dead nano's curse? dead nano's and anything relying on cap arazu? (kind agimped atm but..) similar effect to falcon (but its not chance based) falcon? Jams hostiles Also a sensor booested cerb or eagle (especialy in higher numbers) will absolutely pwn a falcon, even if jammed, the cerb can burn at the falcon and use fof..bye bye falcon Awesome EVE history
Chr0nosX Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.09.24 15:56:00 - [78] Edited by: Chr0nosX on 24/09/2008 15:57:13 If say we have 3 BS in our gang and 2 falcons I'd be happy engaging a 4/5 BS 2/3 BC gang
Lorz0r You're Doing It Wrong	Posted - 2008.09.24 16:04:00 - [79] If you're solo and come up against a Falcon you're dead.
Aviane	Posted - 2008.09.24 16:05:00 - [80] It makes me sad in the pants to see everyone refer to the curse as if it was amarr's force recon.

Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.24 16:11:00 - [81] Originally by: Lorz0r If you're solo and come up against a Falcon you're dead. Unless you, you know, just warp off.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.09.24 16:22:00 - [82] Edited by: Omarvelous on 24/09/2008 16:25:34 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: BiggestT If you do have a falcon alt, then ud realise that they are far from perfect at not the "iwin" button their made out to be. Saying itll pwn when added after a solo situation is just silly, as any additional recon will turn the tide in your favour. Oh and if falcons are so great why dont u AND ur alt fly them? oh maybe coz they cant tank, have no dps etc..hey they ARENT so over-powered Actually falcons are iwin buttons. They totally tilt small gang/solo engagements, especially when sub BS ships are involved. If you know you might be up against falcons you bring BS because eccm is only worth putting on a BS basically. This tilts the game towards BS slugfest + falcons and that is not what I would like to see. Again your proposed 'fix' for the falcon is crap and would wreck that ship (signal distortion amps mean no speed, damage or tank mods in lows - so worthless at shorter ranges). If Merin's invulnerable at 100km its because his opponent is too 1-dimensional in their gang, a properly balanced gang would rip up falcons at 100km. Ask Scorpion pilots if they're called primary... I propose we nerf pulse lasers - they allow Zealots to hit at a wide variety of ranges - blurring short range and mid range combat too much. They've made blasters obsolete. Drop their tracking and range I say! Kinda fun suggesting to wreck someone else's ship! __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Rajere No Trademark Notoriety Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.24 16:28:00 - [83] Quote: Actually falcons are iwin buttons. They totally tilt small gang/solo engagements, especially when sub BS ships are involved. If you know you might be up against falcons you bring BS because eccm is only worth putting on a BS basically. This tilts the game towards BS slugfest + falcons and that is not what I would like to see. sign me up! That's what I would like to see. I'm looking forward to the time when all these little leet kiddie pvp groups form up and decide to engage an enemy gang, that they are then forced to actually finish the fight. I want them to have to be as 'do or die' committed as I've been this entire time they were running around in nanos. How to Fail at Eve
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.09.24 16:29:00 - [84] Originally by: Lorz0r If you're solo and come up against a Falcon you're ~~dead.~~ relieved that its not a curse, pilgrim, rapier, arazu or any other recon ship that wld actually have half a chance of being dangerous..You then proceed to warp off, laughing at how his TWO launchers hit u for 10 dmg before u leave grid. . Fixed Awesome EVE history
Saint Lazarus Spiorad ag fanaiocht	Posted - 2008.09.24 16:58:00 - [85] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Lorz0r If you're solo and come up against a Falcon you're dead. Unless you, you know, just warp off. I assume he meant solo and engaging a target and a falcon shows up, which is pretty true. I solo most of the time and I wont go near anyone if theres a falcon around. Only in small gang warfare are they overpowered, solo you avoid them easily, in larger gangs you counter them, in small gangs 1 falcon can turn the whole battle around more than any other single ship. Seems unfair to nerf it because its overpowered in one kind of engagement and not the others though ----------------- My EvE Comic
Endless Subversion The Accursed	Posted - 2008.09.24 17:23:00 - [86] I'm going to avoid direct commentary as to whether or not falcons are overpowered. There is zero benefit to rehashing that yet again in this thread. To the OP: I fly almost exclusively solo or in 2 man gangs. Rarely I'll step up to something as big as a 4 man gang. I will not willingly engage forces with falcons without dedicated anti-falcon ships. Solo, 2 man or 4 man. Solo is all about getting good fights when it's convenient for you. You don't have to wait around for corpmates to finish xzy or travel 10 jumps to find the right module, you just log on and go look for kills. If there is a hostile falcon you aren't getting kills except against the most fragile of targets or the worst of players. If for no other reason than the fact that you're going to get jammed at least once and lose tackle and the enemy is going to warp off. Plus solo is a very risky business, mostly you work under the assumption that sooner or later (it's always sooner) you're going to get blobbed and die. However, the goal is to take people with you. The minute a falcon uncloaks you can kiss the chances of getting any kills goodbye. Don't engage enemies with falcons by yourself. There are no ships that have decent target pofiles that can also allow tackle AND fit enough eccm to matter (hint, even 3 eccm leaves you in bad shape versus a single falcon when you're solo). Avoid the falcons or bring friends because otherwise you're just throwing away ships. Also, if you're serious about solo I strongly recommend adding an overview setting that has ECM drones added to overview. Always target and kill them ASAP as even one sucessful cycle means your target is unpointed for 20 seconds and can choose to leave if it doesn't look good.
Endless Subversion The Accursed	Posted - 2008.09.24 17:25:00 - [87] Originally by: Saint Lazarus Only in small gang warfare are they overpowered, solo you avoid them easily, in larger gangs you counter them, in small gangs 1 falcon can turn the whole battle around more than any other single ship. If you're nano-solo maybe you're OK if a falcon shows up. Most of the rest of the time you're webbed and pointed. And if you're webbed and jammed you arent breaking outside of web range ever, even perma running that mwd.
Siddy Minmatar Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.24 17:29:00 - [88] works every time Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Saint Lazarus Spiorad ag fanaiocht	Posted - 2008.09.24 17:43:00 - [89] Originally by: Endless Subversion Originally by: Saint Lazarus Only in small gang warfare are they overpowered, solo you avoid them easily, in larger gangs you counter them, in small gangs 1 falcon can turn the whole battle around more than any other single ship. If you're nano-solo maybe you're OK if a falcon shows up. Most of the rest of the time you're webbed and pointed. And if you're webbed and jammed you arent breaking outside of web range ever, even perma running that mwd. And if another gank BS showed up? or a nano HAC? face it you cant say its just a falcon that screws you over if you're webbed in a 1v1 and another pilot jumps in, any one of dozens of ships will murder you. And depending on ships overloading your MWD can get you out of web, or Neuting the other guy till points off, it can be pretty situational. ----------------- My EvE Comic
Endless Subversion The Accursed	Posted - 2008.09.24 17:58:00 - [90] Edited by: Endless Subversion on 24/09/2008 18:01:24 Edited by: Endless Subversion on 24/09/2008 17:58:33 Originally by: Saint Lazarus And if another gank BS showed up? or a nano HAC? face it you cant say its just a falcon that screws you over if you're webbed in a 1v1 and another pilot jumps in, any one of dozens of ships will murder you. Yes I can. I can counter web + mwd + overload to break web range. I can neut. I can lol at nano-hacs as I pleasure myself while heavy neuting them then insta gibbing them with heavy lasers. I can get lucky versus lower skilled, porrly fit or plain bad players and either kill the first ship before the second ship has me well tackled or kill them both. When my ships isn't permanently and completely incapacitated the other players can, and do, make mistakes that are fatal for them and allow me to beat the odds. Hell, the second ship might not even have tackle of it's own, or I can bring jam drones of my own, kill the first ship and wait for a cycle on the second ship and then warp. If I'm flying a maelstrom or another heavily tanked ship I can prob tank 2x reasonably fit and skilled gank bs. If it's smaller than a BS I can scoop the extra loot that just flew over to me. In other words, the vast majority of my player options and ship options are still available to me when I'm not jammed. No other ship, short of a carrier, is as dangerous as a falcon uncloaking. Quote: And depending on ships overloading your MWD can get you out of web, or Neuting the other guy till points off, it can be pretty situational. No. When the falcon jams you, you cannot neut the point off. And you can't counter web so your overloaded MWD is less of a movement speed increase then the decrease from a single web. So no, you can't.



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