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Khalid Seyadin Amarr Ejrekorp Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2008.10.10 04:07:00 - [1] I'm currently training SB'ers, but after hearing some bad things about them I'm not so sure I'm on the right path here, I started training them purely because I like the name "Stealth Bomber" just sounds cool, though I realize I might not know what I'm getting into, any advice would be helpful
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.10.10 04:17:00 - [2] Erm, I wouldn't bother with stealth bombers in your shoes. You'll be much better served in a Caracal, Drake, or Raven. The really sad thing about the SB is that by the time you can use one effectively, you've effectively got the support skills for a great Raven. Thus, you should be in a Raven for almost innumerable reasons. SBs simply aren't worth the effort at the moment... sorry. Maybe an interceptor or AF would be better - AFs are getting boosted in the next patch :) -Liang --
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.10.10 04:23:00 - [3] Stealth bombers are comedy ships, period. Consider them the frigate equivalent of the BattleBadger. Oh, and with no covert ops cloak, they are a complete failure at anything related to stealth, 99% of the time you use the cloak, you could have just warped in and opened fire right away. If you're looking for a good stealth ship, get a force recon.
Feng Schui Minmatar Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.10.10 04:31:00 - [4] nice thing about stealth bombers is running with interceptor / frig / Cruiser gangs.. seems like i'm always the top damage dealer for some reason
Random Elite Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.10.10 04:44:00 - [5] Bombers certainly have their roles, but they aren't what you want them to be. Everyone dreams of sneaking up on their enemies and surprising the hell out of them. But in reality, SBs are really only good for taking advantage of stupid people. What can you do with bombers? Camp stations, camp gate camps, and other such things. It's not very eventful, though it is a blast when you get a successful kill. The other thing is that bombers are NOT solo ships. To be fully effective you have to have at least 4 bombers in a gang, and to ALWAYS be moving. Once the opposing people know where you are, they will be trying to decloak you. Its more an advantage of range than the cloaking ability. Basically, its fun to mess around with, but not something you do all the time. Oh, and be prepared for a ton of smack.
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2008.10.10 04:53:00 - [6] Originally by: Khalid Seyadin I'm currently training SB'ers, but after hearing some bad things about them I'm not so sure I'm on the right path here, I started training them purely because I like the name "Stealth Bomber" just sounds cool, though I realize I might not know what I'm getting into, any advice would be helpful Well, what exactly are you wanting with stealthbombers? As much as I respect Merin and Liang's comments and views on most ships and subjects, this is one that I slightly disagree with them. You don't need uber skills to fly a stealth bomber effectively. Strictly required skills are cruise missiles, cruise missile support skills to at least 4, of course race frig 5, cloaking to whichever level gives you the Improved cloaking device II, Cov Ops to 4...and so most other skills are secondary to those. Now what were you wanting to do with the SB? Have someone tackle and you just sit at long range? Or would you rather be right in the thick of it, uncloak, pop a target, cloak, rinse, repeat. The later is what I choose to do be it solo or in a gang. And I absolutely love it. Risky, but gets the job done if you know what you're doing. With some experience and after losing a couple, you will know what and what not to do in a SB based on your playstyle. The BIGGEST thing with SBs that the pilot MUST have is patience. If you're impatient at all, then SBs are not for you. You don't even need to spec in SBs to be decent with them, so you can train up the appropriate skills someone, then just use it as a cheap throw away ship for whenever you're bored. Costs less than 20 mil to buy one and fit it out decently. The most important thing with stealth bombers is to have fun Oh, and bombs are useless as well...Thought I'd throw that out there.
Brego Tralowski Gallente Forever Night	Posted - 2008.10.10 04:57:00 - [7] Edited by: Brego Tralowski on 10/10/2008 04:58:20 SBs can be good solo ships if you invest time in them, I can kill everything upto cruiser size on my own in mine (granted they may be noobs or stupid). They are a lot of fun to fly and I fly mine quite often in lowsec on the hunt and playing the waiting game with thieves and pirates etc. However, as an SB pilot, I would sugest that if you're a new player and as this has already been mentioned in other threads - go for something else first. The skills needed for an SB are good skills in general for a Raven or similar vessel. Everybody has a favorite ship, and for me it's my Nemises it has its pros and cons but so does every ship. It has been said that it really needs to be looked at in terms of it truely being a stealth ship (i.e. warping stealthed etc), and I hope the Devs sort it out, but it just depends on what you want to do as a player. If you want to train for SBs then do it, use it, then make up your own mind on just how good/bad it is. Fly safe all o/
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.10.10 05:04:00 - [8] Originally by: Karrade Krise Now what were you wanting to do with the SB? Have someone tackle and you just sit at long range? Or would you rather be right in the thick of it, uncloak, pop a target, cloak, rinse, repeat. The problem here is the only thing you can pop like that is a T1 frigate or newbie destroyer, and you don't even get the loot. Why would I ever want to fly a ship that's so limited in target options? Originally by: Brego Tralowski Edited by: Brego Tralowski on 10/10/2008 04:58:20 SBs can be good solo ships if you invest time in them, I can kill everything upto cruiser size on my own in mine (granted they may be noobs or stupid). They are a lot of fun to fly and I fly mine quite often in lowsec on the hunt and playing the waiting game with thieves and pirates etc. See, this is the problem, the only way you are EVER going to kill even a T1 cruiser (the absolute minimum for a PvP ship to be even vaguely useful) is if it's flown by a complete idiot. And there, you aren't winning because stealth bombers are good, you're winning because you found a complete idiot to kill. Any other ship in the game could do the job just as well, while not being completely useless against targets that aren't flown by complete idiots.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.10 05:13:00 - [9] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Karrade Krise Now what were you wanting to do with the SB? Have someone tackle and you just sit at long range? Or would you rather be right in the thick of it, uncloak, pop a target, cloak, rinse, repeat. The problem here is the only thing you can pop like that is a T1 frigate or newbie destroyer, and you don't even get the loot. Why would I ever want to fly a ship that's so limited in target options? If you can. Generally, I found that with a plated Rifter and a SB uncloaking in close proximity, the routine is preety much uncloak->fire->die horribly. I mean, yeah, I see it working with all L5 skills and all that, but making people suicide their normally skilled/fit SBs like that is a rude thing to do Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2008.10.10 05:17:00 - [10] Merin Merin Merin... SBs are not meant to be an I-Win Button...Come on you know this yet you talk like it should be. Of course it's not going to solo a t1 cruiser. (possible given the right circumstances). EAFs would have a ridiculously hard time soloing cruisers and above as well...so would many MANY other ships. If SBs were able to pop cruisers in just 2 volleys by themselves...then overpowered would be an understatement.
Feng Schui Minmatar Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.10.10 05:31:00 - [11] WTB a stealth bomber with Torpedo Launchers fitted Project:Gank Pilgrim Guide
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.10 06:37:00 - [12] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/10/2008 06:40:06 Originally by: Feng Schui WTB a stealth bomber with Torpedo Launchers fitted With a 500% damage bonus and 450% rof penality. That'd be actual bombing.
Isaac Starstriker Amarr Sisterhood of Galactic Sirens	Posted - 2008.10.10 08:26:00 - [13] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Stealth bombers are comedy ships, period. Consider them the frigate equivalent of the BattleBadger. Oh, and with no covert ops cloak, they are a complete failure at anything related to stealth, 99% of the time you use the cloak, you could have just warped in and opened fire right away. If you're looking for a good stealth ship, get a force recon. Can you quit posting "I HATE STEALTHBOMBERS, THEY SUCK" Obviously you've been popped by one too many. QQ elsewhere. --Isaac
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.10.10 08:42:00 - [14] Originally by: Isaac Starstriker Obviously you've been popped by one too many. QQ elsewhere. --Isaac Actually, I've never lost a PvP ship to a bomber (I once lost a throwaway hauler as a newbie ore thief). This is why I hate bombers so much, they're the most utterly useless ships I've ever run into.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.10 09:02:00 - [15] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/10/2008 09:02:43 Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Isaac Starstriker Obviously you've been popped by one too many. QQ elsewhere. --Isaac Actually, I've never lost a PvP ship to a bomber (I once lost a throwaway hauler as a newbie ore thief). This is why I hate bombers so much, they're the most utterly useless ships I've ever run into. Ah, I see. You've got a problem of perspective. You're looking at it the wrong way. "Free loot" is the correct sentiment, and after that you get to love bombers... particularly given the nice prices of T2 cloaks you claim are so useless!
Ruban Spangler Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.10.10 09:18:00 - [16] Training Covert Ops is worth it to get into the covert ops ship never mind the SB. Warping round cloaked and scanning ships/ exploration sites down is much more useful than SB (but not nearly as much fun)
Myrhial Arkenath Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.10.10 09:20:00 - [17] SB's are true glass cannons. Not a solo ship unless you want to fight inexperienced or stupid frigate pilots only, but a nice addition to a small gang. The advantage of flying with others is that not all eyes will be on you so you can abuse the cloak to make the opponent be unsure of where you are and if you are still there. Don't forget you can move at a pretty decent speed while cloaked too
abrasive soap HOMELESS. Elitist Cowards	Posted - 2008.10.10 09:23:00 - [18] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/10/2008 09:02:43 Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Isaac Starstriker Obviously you've been popped by one too many. QQ elsewhere. --Isaac Actually, I've never lost a PvP ship to a bomber (I once lost a throwaway hauler as a newbie ore thief). This is why I hate bombers so much, they're the most utterly useless ships I've ever run into. Ah, I see. You've got a problem of perspective. You're looking at it the wrong way. "Free loot" is the correct sentiment, and after that you get to love bombers... particularly given the nice prices of T2 cloaks you claim are so useless! i once popped a stealth bomber that had a shadow serpentis web fit on it. unfortunately i didnt pick it up because i had 10% structure due to his gangmates so i had to warp out. in retrospect, there wasnt really much i could do to get it so i dont think that ended too badly. stealth bombers all the way, just faction fit them please
Dr Sheepbringer	Posted - 2008.10.10 09:24:00 - [19] SB's will always be those silent predators that will hurt when they bite. In solo they are quite picky about what you attack, but in gangs that Alpha will speed things up nicely. Specially when you don't go all blazing from the first second. Wait for the battle to start and when everyone already focuses on someone...then uncloak and deal some damage and hope they aren't paying too much attention :) You might not even see it coming and when it hits...ouchie.
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.10.10 09:43:00 - [20] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Karrade Krise Now what were you wanting to do with the SB? Have someone tackle and you just sit at long range? Or would you rather be right in the thick of it, uncloak, pop a target, cloak, rinse, repeat. The problem here is the only thing you can pop like that is a T1 frigate or newbie destroyer, and you don't even get the loot. Why would I ever want to fly a ship that's so limited in target options? The goal is to fit for maximum voley damage ... ROF/range is irelevant ... If you can. Generally, I found that with a plated Rifter and a SB uncloaking in close proximity, the routine is preety much uncloak->fire->die horribly. I mean, yeah, I see it working with all L5 skills and all that, but making people suicide their normally skilled/fit SBs like that is a rude thing to do --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Xanos Blackpaw Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2008.10.10 10:19:00 - [21] Edited by: Xanos Blackpaw on 10/10/2008 10:19:08 Originally by: Hugh Ruka Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Karrade Krise Now what were you wanting to do with the SB? Have someone tackle and you just sit at long range? Or would you rather be right in the thick of it, uncloak, pop a target, cloak, rinse, repeat. The problem here is the only thing you can pop like that is a T1 frigate or newbie destroyer, and you don't even get the loot. Why would I ever want to fly a ship that's so limited in target options? The goal is to fit for maximum voley damage ... ROF/range is irelevant ... If you can. Generally, I found that with a plated Rifter and a SB uncloaking in close proximity, the routine is preety much uncloak->fire->die horribly. I mean, yeah, I see it working with all L5 skills and all that, but making people suicide their normally skilled/fit SBs like that is a rude thing to do i'm not to sure about that rifter comment...i willingly triggered a trap they set up for me with a itty 5 last night...a ishtar, raven and jaguar warp in no me. the jag tackle me and the ishtar and raven start to lock me. i simply pop the jaguar with 3 salvos and then warp oiut before the first missile hit...and the ishtar didnt even get though my shield. i just got no idea how you can have trubble killing a rifter...no matter what kind if plate it got on... Playing minmatar is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi".
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.10 10:54:00 - [22] Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw i simply pop the jaguar with 3 salvos and then warp oiut before the first missile hit...and the ishtar didnt even get though my shield. The Jaguar pilot should've torn you to little bits in three volleys of ACs max. He must've been doing something horribly wrong. Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw i just got no idea how you can have trubble killing a rifter...no matter what kind if plate it got on... I'm just pointing out that I have killed a number of SBs in a Rifter, merely because they made the bad call of engaging close-range thinking they'll one-volley a Rifter.
Khalid Seyadin Amarr Ejrekorp Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2008.10.10 11:25:00 - [23] wow, so many differing opinions, cheers for all. I think I'll continue training the necessary skills since they are useful for other ships too and still get an SB for gang fighting or messing around, it would be cool if they could warp cloaked and use torpedoes
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.10.10 13:16:00 - [24] They are a good ship if flown correctly and do require a swift mind along with patience. It is also important to learn how to use your scanner to find targets in a system and to use that information as best as you can. Half the battle with your bomber is getting into the correct position and using the correct tactic for the situation while leaving room to change the plan if the situation changes on the fly. At first I found life as a bomber a complicaded affair, having to process alot of info and make split second decisions but as time went on I got better and now its just second nature. Currently I go out in search of haulers and miners but I will quite happily take on a raven solo if I find one just on the off chance it has a weak tank vs my EM cruise and is running a macro.
Absolom Hues Gallente The Triangle Veneratio Venator Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.10 13:22:00 - [25] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Stealth bombers are comedy ships....... Quote: Merrin, keep thinking that. In fact convince everyone you can that Stealth Bombers have no good use. For the rest of you that want to think for your self, watch this video linked below. Do you think Merin can convince eXceed that bombers are worthless http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0707/HouseofPrawn2.avi ___ Doing what's right isn't always the easiest thing... it's just right.
6Bagheera9 Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.10.10 16:08:00 - [26] Fit for bombs or cruise, but never both. Bombing fits should be cheap as they are likely to die. Don't ever bother with TPs on a bomber, your explosion radius is 40m and they won't really help much. Bombs can be devastating, but in practice its hard to coordinate their use properly. I don't know of any group of people that are good at it. SBs equipped with cruise missiles are most useful as ranged dps for roaming frig/cruiser gangs. They are especially good when paired with recons/EAF as the later are great at tackling and disabling targets but are short on dps. I find that people have the most luck just chucking missiles into the fight at about 40-50km.
Connner Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.10 16:37:00 - [27] Well surprise, surprise Merin Ryskin is in another SB topic. Why do you care this much that there are some out there who like SB's. To the OP, continue to train for SB's and try them out you will either love it or hate it. All the skills you will be training as prereqs will still be usefull for just about any other ship. Personally, I love my Hound.
Nikea Tiber Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.10 17:24:00 - [28] Despite what merin thinks, stealth bombers do have a role. Logistics disruption. SB's are very effective as disrupting a corp or alliances ratting, mining and industrial traffic. Untanked haulers pop in one or two volleys, most mining ships will dock up when you are in system, some ratters will as well. As a merc, SB's are very useful in 0.0 operations where we are at a disadvantage in terms of overall firepower. A SB allows for easy insertion into camped systems and has enough firepower to be taken seriously, especially in conjunction with recons. The inability for a defending force to catch you effects morale. Stealth bombers aren't general combat ships; they are uboats that disrupt industry and logistics. This being said, stealth bombers could use a bit of work, the most obvious buff would be the use of a cov ops cloak, in order to be as effective as possible right now you really need to have a set of off grid bookmarks to warp to; once you have these set up it is pretty easy to terrorize your enemy as you pop up at unexpected locations... tends to keep the carebears docked and the defense forces extremely frustrated. ___________________ Eventually, we all get outgunned or outnumbered.
Meridius Dex Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.10.10 18:01:00 - [29] SBs have very limited use, and only in very particular situations. I've flown them many times in zero sec and faction warfare. They can be used to disrupt enemy ewar or to sometimes disguise the true strength of your gatecamp by keeping half your gang in cloaked SBs in an otherwise busy system. Bombs are worthless. I've worked with a pvp corp using several SBs to attempt techniques such as Warp-out Bombing (requires tactical bookmarks on opposing points of a gate), Snapshot Bombing and a few other techniques. In truth, these are very hard techniques to master and any one of a number of things can go wrong in their execution to guarantee failure. Bombs are just all but worthless (and overly expensive). The only thing I've ever had any luck doing (besides being a wussy and sitting out at 150K during a bubble gatecamp and killmail whoring), was a tactic called 'fishing'. It only works against lone interceptors, frigates and destroyers. You basically put two sensor damps (range scripts, ofc) on the ceptor so that he finds he cannot lock unless he closes to within web range. Thinking they have an easy kill, you'd be surprised by the number of ceptor pilots that will fall into this trap. As soon as he hits web range, you pop the web and instantly launch missiles. I can pretty much one-volley almost any ceptor, but you are restricted to pilots who don't know better and they must be alone. If even one buddy shows up to help, you are toast. I currently don't own any SBs, as I find they are harder to implement in FW/low sec. I usually get so insanely bored looking for that one rare opportunity when an SB can shine that I often end up taking a wild hopeless attack on something and getting it blown up. But, hey, they are fun and I keep finding myself every few weeks when I'm stocking up on new ships buying one - even though I know they are fairly comedy ships.
Mara Starr	Posted - 2008.10.10 18:38:00 - [30] As has been stated above, you really shouldn't solo or do missions in a SB, but it is possible to solo someone possibly tanked if you range and and targeting speed are maxed and you have the targeting dampeners and skill to constantly be dampening or cloaking in between volleys. In my own experience a SB (Manticore is my SB of choice) can do a world of damage in terms of corp operations support roles. The best way to think of a stealth bomber is as a real world sniper. He can inflict a heavy amount of damage at a far range, but hes only one man and head on engagements are almost a death sentence. Now everything everyone has said about using them for gangs is applicable, but they work even better with a corp. You can disrupt operations like others have said above, but your role in a flat out battle or in the time leading up to it can be invaluable. A SB can sit off about 100-200 KM from a POS or gate and observe everything about the enemy and relay their movements to their corp. Additionally they can close up to a reasonable close distance and serve as as a warp beacon of sorts or make a book mark, disemnate it and then sit off. In terms of a battle, a SB can effectively target and kill many a support ship sitting if it has its range maxed and be outside the reach of some of the heavier ships. That's my $0.02.

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