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DeerHunter GE
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Posted - 2004.06.24 00:09:00 -
[1]
People, please state in this thread what you think about it....not what you think about anyone else, do not coplain about other peoples opinions better tell CCP what you think !
Skills and their absolutely uneccessary handling changes.......
if you going to treat your oldest customers this way i promise you tha you'll proably lose many many of them.
The fact that you have to spend already millions of skill points to reach level five of some skills is fair. Even if you only get an advantage of almost 2 - 10 percent of an special skill.
If you really decide to choose such an handycap system for the veteran players i will quit this game forever. I will not tolerate such arbitrarily changes again after one year of paying and skilling.
These are my two pence, and people stop flaming me for this i never threatened CCP with such demands before and iam in this game since February 2003 but enough is enough....
Don't ask "can i have your stuff" because i'll give it to everybody else than you! |
sableye
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Posted - 2004.06.24 00:18:00 -
[2]
where are these changes mentioned? I don't like the sound of them myself.
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svetlana
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Posted - 2004.06.24 00:21:00 -
[3]
please provide a link, what skill changes are you talking about?
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Kalast Raven
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Posted - 2004.06.24 00:23:00 -
[4]
He's talking about the 'soft-cap' in the most recent CSM. Eve-i.com should have it for your viewing pleasure.
I for one am quite opposed to this idea. I think the rapid introduction of a greater depth and variety of skills is what is needed, not a stagnation of advancement for older players.
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K. Raven
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G8torSkull
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Posted - 2004.06.24 00:24:00 -
[5]
If it happens I won't be here afterwards. Skill points are the main thing in this game not isk, ships, modules or anything else. Skill points rule this game and without them the players are screwed
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Murple
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Posted - 2004.06.24 00:26:00 -
[6]
From CSM 7.2
 Quote:
Hellmar > We are discussing several strategies for this. it is evident that come some years some players might have tens of millions of skill points and it's daunting for new players to join such a play ground. the solution I currently like is to have a soft limit, i.e. after 10 million skill points, either all or certain skill categories would slow down in training, meaning that you would have to think more about what to train. it also makes sense from a biologie/computer point of view, as there is a limit to how much even an implanted brain can retain of information. so you migh need to clean house and defrag your brain to train more. This would also limit the "jack of all trades" syndrom that many odl old players suffer from. BUT NOTE: This wouldn't take effect untill after a certain amount of skill points is reached.
But as I said, this is being discussed. This is only my point of view in that discussion. this might even only affect certain advances skills. Meaning that if you have many super advaced refining skills trained, it would slow down your progression in combat skills. we like specialization as it promotes grouping. Training everything to the max, tends to isolate players
Manfred Doomhammer > who is opposing you on this? have to know whom to back up..;p
Hellmar > everyone has their own ideas; we will converge at some point. This is post Shiva material, as Shiva introduces a lot of skills to delay the issue. We are at least aware of the problem, it was evident from before release, but we wanted to see it evolve before deciding anything. Im done, unless TomB wants to give you his version.
TomB > at current state i dont see it as a problem, but we know it will get to be one when advanced skills come out. currently the advancing from level 4 - 5 takes almost as long as 1 - 4 and the bonus for 1 - 4 is of course much more. so advancing a new character and the bonuses he receives do not take as long as for a 10+ mill skill player who is trying to get some lvl 5 skills. but this matter won't be decided on yet as hellmar said, it's post-shiva material. whether we decide to go for new playe grounds for more advanced players (as the user base keeps growing as well) or go for limiting more the advancement of old players or other solutions
I personally think that the soft cap is a very bad thing and very unnessary. 1 year vets should be better then new players. That's how all games work. I can't imagine anyone complainig about that.
Gotta love my city-sized roid vacuum cleaner! |
Tyrenical
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Posted - 2004.06.24 00:26:00 -
[7]
if they change something else and make it bad ill quit too im tired of them messing with everything as well, they defintely dont need to mess with skills, im just waiting for a reason to stop playing 
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Striking you.
CEO of The Legitimate Businessmans Club
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.06.24 00:31:00 -
[8]
Bleh. Isn't it enough that there are skills which take months to train? Create a few more paths like DCM amd make them worthwhile, and watch people spend months training on them.
THAT'd keep vets busy
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2004.06.24 00:40:00 -
[9]
This idea is stupid, disastrous, uninspired, I could go on but I think you get the drift. Punishing your most devoted players may seem reasonable since you've already milked them of a year's subscription fees, but consider that they're also the ones more likely to stay another year.
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Falzone
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Posted - 2004.06.24 01:01:00 -
[10]
Agree 100% with you guys its dumb as hell. Its like penalizing me cause i've played for over a year i mean WTF.
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Tenashi
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Posted - 2004.06.24 01:09:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Tenashi on 24/06/2004 01:10:46
they will do it nway, sry ccp, but even thinking of it goes to far, 2 accounts cancled
and no, u can`t have my stuff...sheesh...
this is with all the ongoin stuff, good reason...
Everlasting Vendetta - Search |
Prince Yellow
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Posted - 2004.06.24 02:07:00 -
[12]
You know, I played during beta, and a month after but then quit for I dunno how long up until this month when I came back... So I guess I'm new, but I must say this is a horrible idea... I don't think a skill cap is the answer but rather adding more content into the game... If the 'old players' are so 'strong' then add 'stronger content' for them! Don't turn your backs on them. Make them want to go out into even deeper space rather than stay in areas they have already been in! Sure I might not ever be able to be as strong or as well rounded as they, but what does that matter to me, nothing... as far as pvp goes, I've always gotten the picture this game was more group based than anything! *Corps....* Help thy fellow Corp member, isn't that right DeerHunter GE? Because now I can get someone like you to process my ore, and build stuff for me :P
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Phasics
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Posted - 2004.06.24 02:10:00 -
[13]
They wont cap anything and i dont think the slow down thing will happen either
CCP knows the the whole for the good of the game things sint going to fly with all thier paying vetrans who are sticking around and paying
The skills that are avaible now are what i consider the core skills
after a year of playing most people wil have the majority of skills to level 4 and many to level 5
I think that keeping in line with CCP want for specialisation that what is needed is Skill branches
once u max all skills in certain division to 5 the advanced tree for that divsion will open up
which is give very impressive bonuses and new abilities with some nasty x6 x8 and x12 trianing time mults the advanced skill tree will take many months to train but be so totally worth it in the end (large 10-15% bonuses per lv).
The only think u need to limit is the number of advanced skill trees u can use, e.g say 4
so u pick
Adv Electronics
Adv Engineering
Adv Gunnery
Adv Spaceship Command
once u trained 4 core adv skills u wont be able to train in any other advanced field , thus specialising u to thoes groups only.
In Short
You should be able to train every current skill to level 5 at current speeds
U can take the Advanced field of any field u have all skills maxed to lv5.
Limit of four advanced skill divisions
Complete training of al skills in each advacned divsion will take 1 year+
so that a 5 year vetrans will still rein over a 1 year vertran.
but not insanley i.e 5 year vet in a BS could still be taken down by 2-3 well oranised 1 year vets in BS
and thus balence is maintained but vetrasn still have the skills to alawys comeout on top in a 1v1 contest as it should be
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Garramon
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Posted - 2004.06.24 02:13:00 -
[14]
Definitely one of the worst ideas ever.
Don't expect this to ever happen. Instead I forsee VERY deep skill paths. They, in fact, need to release these soon as some people have already trained all the skills they could possibly want.
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Ardor
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Posted - 2004.06.24 02:15:00 -
[15]
We currently do have a 'soft cap'. It's called level 5 (it takes 5 times more to train from level 4 to level 5 than from level 0 to level 4). I've made a post in the skill forum a while ago with an example. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=87056
I hoped that CCP could make the skillsystem in a way forcing us to specialize (with level 5 skills as requirement). I do not believe CCP will really implement the 'soft cap' the way we now may understand. This would make skilltraining more or less useless. And the skillsystem is one of the highlights in Eve.
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Soren
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Posted - 2004.06.24 02:15:00 -
[16]
I can't believe they're even talking about this 
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ErrorS
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Posted - 2004.06.24 02:23:00 -
[17]
people arent too smart..
they said this was an IDEA they were throwing around. cant you read? they have months to change the idea around. its post-shiva and one idea of many.
"I HATE THIS CHANGE THIS ONE GUY IS TALKING ABOUIT AND SAYS IT MIGHT BE COMING IN 8 MONTHS IM CANCELING MY ACCOUNT"
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honestly, i think the change is stupid. but i doubt it'll make it into the game. im deffinitely not going to cancle my account over it.. considering it's nearly a year away 
________
I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |
ErrorS
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Posted - 2004.06.24 02:26:00 -
[18]
and i quote
Quote:
Martinus Crimson > i think it would be sad to goto a situation where a dev should watch thier words because players blow up thier every word to huge proporations.
* Hellmar agrees with Martinus
ive seen it happen with too many games. people arent mature enough to hear the ideas devs are throwing around, so they stop telling people until days before release. i would HATE for eve to turn out like that
________
I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |
Zinjan
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Posted - 2004.06.24 02:41:00 -
[19]
Well ErrorS - there was actually also some guys coming with ideas here too. Along with the moaning comes idea. Give it break please 
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Nybbas
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Posted - 2004.06.24 02:57:00 -
[20]
I think it is VERY important for players to explode over this idea, CCP needs to know NOW that ANY penalization for advanced players is a very very very bad thing. If anything just make more advanced specialized skills, like they have been doing, and just make them take stupid long amounts of time to train, but dont touch the way the character themselves actually are able to train... Maybe even a skill that is needed to train to raise the amount of skillpoints your character has, the skill is for 20 mil skillpoints and over, and each level allows an addition 5mil SP, but takes VERY long to train, i dont know... but blah
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ActiveX
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Posted - 2004.06.24 03:21:00 -
[21]
Soft caps dont work on time based skills.
Now that that is over, let's all come up with a real idea.
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Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000 
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Tripoli
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Posted - 2004.06.24 03:31:00 -
[22]
I understand that this is just an idea right now, and that if it is implimented, it will be a long time first, but pleaes let me just go ahead and shoot this idea down.
/me whips out Tachys and blasts idea into bits.
DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT, DEVS. DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.
Skills are what I live for in this game. You talk about a Jack of All Trades? With 149 skills, that's me....and that's all I've ever wanted to be in EVE.
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Zenst
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Posted - 2004.06.24 03:50:00 -
[23]
Soft cap change's muted - bad idea, not spoken to anyboydy who wouldn't quit/cancel account soon as they get introduced. Guess alot of empire ganking the new player expliots would come to light though if this was to come about.
Again more fodder for the "CCP are only intent on upseting there customer base who got them were they are today" 
I can understand why there muting this, as come the new big patch they will relaunch the game for more sales/income, coz a few thousand upset vetrans canceling there accounts and with a months notice and nothing better todo, dont see these new players having alot of fun if they do it this way  . If they just make it so new chars with slightly better ase attribs are brought in, then vetrans wont complain and new players suffer less and can get stuck in. This is from a company that seems intent on having balanced fleets of frigs/cruisers/BS's/whatever and then goes and contradicts that with the muting of dumping altzimers on all the long established players, DUH HOW UTTERLY STUPID, keep away from TomB's stash Hmmmkay.
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Morkalum Takor
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Posted - 2004.06.24 03:58:00 -
[24]
Man, you guys have gone nuts over something that is in discussion and that will not even be worked on until Shiva comes around.
I understand that its good to make your opinions known about it and to have input from players so the devs can adjust their views on it, but the guys already claiming to cancel their subscriptions over a discussion or a hint of something in the far future need to calm down a bit.
Its only a discussion. Meaning its being talked about. Not being implemented any time soon. Meaning that it will prolly not be rehashed until after Shiva which was slotted for what, October? So keep your accounts but voice your opinions. Its silly to drop your accounts over a discussion.
"There's more than one side to a story..."-Reporter for the InterCorp Courier Enterprises |
Bug
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Posted - 2004.06.24 04:39:00 -
[25]
I'm probably going to get flamed for saying this, since so far it has mainly been vets who are posting on this matter.I'm just playing devils advocate here.
There is little to no skill gap between vets and newbies as it stands now.However, once Shiva is released that gap will widen and will only keep getting bigger, simply because newbies will not be able to train the new skills, since their requirements would be too high.
There isn't 1 MMORPG out there that doesn't have a form of soft/hard caps in place, to slow down older players and let the newbies catch up.Even then, with Soft caps the vets will always remain in the lead.No matter how hard someone tries, they will not reach the status of a 1 day old player.
There comes a point in each game where you have reached that highest level, found the best items and beaten your opponents in PvP with superior strength.They simply cannot go on forever, why is that so hard to understand?
As a MMORPG developer you need to strike a balance between 'newbie friendly' and 'vet rewarding' which is very, very hard.The fact that no one in this thread has yet to post a real solution, shows just how hard it is.Like it or not, you can never please both sides.
Also, the idea that MMORPG's can somehow earn a living off their original player base is ludicrous.CCP are not a charitable or state funded organization, they're still in it for the money.The all mighty dollar is more important than keeping a bunch of old fogeys at the top of their game.
Of all the people that started playing UO 7 years ago, how many are left today?I'd be surprised if that number was higher than 10%.Like it or not, people move on.Games like EVE survive, Because of the new people.
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Dufas
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Posted - 2004.06.24 04:57:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Dufas on 24/06/2004 05:06:20
why slow down a vet player..that makes no sense to me...thats like punnishing someone who's put more time and money into a game..'hi thanks for forking out hundreds of dollars and over a year of playing time now we r gonna nerf u so someone who just started can catch up to you' NOT!!..games need ppl with higher skills... i know when i started and i saw someone flying an apoc for the first time it gave me incentive to want to play more so i could have one myself...another solution needs to be found and this idea needs to be squished now before it goes any further
..and bug as for your 'old fogeys', these r the ppl who continue to play continue to pay where as new ppl play for a month or 2 then maybe quit...vets of any game form the backbone of the community with experience and that experience should be taken into account more then any noob who just came in off the street
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Wandarah
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Posted - 2004.06.24 05:19:00 -
[27]
Like the man just said, even with some capping in place, the Vets would always be way way ahead of anyone else.
NZEA 4 Lyfe |
Falbala
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Posted - 2004.06.24 05:34:00 -
[28]
What can be acceptable is a fixed limit like 25 or 30M SP (I don't know how much ^^) with the possibility of forgetting old useless skills.
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Xadian
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Posted - 2004.06.24 05:37:00 -
[29]
I see really no reason (and I'm nowhere near the status of a 'vet' player) to impliment such an idea.
Simply, experience outwieghs SP already anyway... as it stands 4 experienced pilots (maybe 1-3m SP each)can take out a battleship with 6-7m SP if they know how the game itself is played, and you can't quantify experience by showing "this person spent 2 weeks sitting there watching a bar move" so, CCP, pls don't change skill training.
(If it ain't broke don't fix it)
Always hit the big red button whenever you get the chance.
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Fuse
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Posted - 2004.06.24 05:50:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Fuse on 24/06/2004 07:32:35
I am starting to hate CCP... I'm tired of CCP nerfing the mods I like... punishing me for being a loyal customer. I did the work for a miner 2 print yet I did NOT get one. I have research projects going and the one tech 2 print I got is already obsolete with the release of a larger module. CCP is turning to EA more and more every day. Not only this if I ever petition I always get the same response. "We are sorry we have no logs to prove you suffered this bug and can not refund your isk." A new player petitions and they take his word for it and give him his ship back no problems. I don't think the comments of their damage control community director are going to change my mind.
This is how the game is going for me. LetĘs take a simple game of dice all rolls add to your score. You start the game even and then the guy judging the game decides you are doing too well. So he starts making up rules now you can not roll a 12 because you are doing too well I will penalize you 1 point on every roll. Oh that type of dice is doing too well for you I am changing your dice so it is harder so here is an 8 sided dice.
I had the vision along with my veteran players to join and believe in this game when it was new. Do not punish us for supporting you.
0.o It's not you... no wait it is you. |
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