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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Julius Kashmir Caldari Dark Skullz Empire Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.10.15 06:58:00 - [3181] Originally by: Lerand Gaunt Brains, where are you?). I've gotta wonder when you'll answer your question...oopps never mind you can't w/o a brain o.o
Col Callahan Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.10.15 06:59:00 - [3182] It's sick really for me to now feel the way I do but watching a company and the lives of the company employees go down the drain, It brings me pleasure. "Some people just enjoy watching the world burn" _
Ayrion Centare Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:00:00 - [3183] Originally by: Jac Straw In all honesty, I can't believe why people are getting so upset.., For myself personally, I quote my post from earlier: Quote: Ghost Training is specifically one of the features that attracted me to EVE. I never got into any other MMOs because I have a life and I simply can't dedicate the time necessary to grind up a powerful end-game character. And if I couldn't do that, it seemed like waste of time and money to even get started. So I didn't. When I first learn about EVE and it's skill training model and the ability to ghost train I thought it was genius. Finally an MMO that doesn't punish me for having a life. I could take extended stretches of time outside the game but still continue to level my character towards end game. Ghost training was a huge selling point for me. I'd like to have some empathy for CCP especially with current market condition, but their treatment of the matter has been despicable. The outright lie that ghost training was an unintended bug instead of a feature clearly written in your own player manual is so rude and disrespectful it's insulting. If ghost training took such a financial toll and was an actual bug you could have protected yourself easily by stating in your player manual that ghost training is an unintended feature caused by a bug and it will be removed. Even if it took you 5 years to remove it nobody could make a fuss because it was clearly stated. Right now you guys at CCP are not in the best position. It either looks like: There was a bug that existed in your skill training system for 5 years that you actually called a feature in your own player manual which makes you look stupid and incompetent. or Or this is an attempt to squeeze your customers for extra subs by lying and disabling a well known feature that made your MMO distinct from other MMOs when it came to character advancement which makes you look desperate and pathetic. This is a deal breaker for me.
Furnak Tye Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:05:00 - [3184] Edited by: Furnak Tye on 15/10/2008 07:05:08 Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website. How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize. Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor. Torfi B*lsht, frankly the only reason I came back after my long wait was due to ghost training, anyway I stopped recommending this game to people a while ago, now I think I'll actively start telling them how s**t the company who made it has become, CCP = liars and money grabbers. ------------------------------------------- THE CAKE IS A LIE
Mallikanth	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:05:00 - [3185] CCP asking people to pay to use their services? How outrageous
Sylthi Minmatar Coreward Pan-Galactic	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:07:00 - [3186] Account management goes down. Ghost Account training coming to an end announced. That announcement disappears VERY shortly after it is posted. First thread allowing people to talk about the change get buried. Second thread allowing people to talk about the change disappears. Third thread allowing people to talk about the change gets locked. Patch notes STILL not up only 5 hours away from patch time. But none of these things have anything to do with each other, and are *ALL* pure coincidence. There is no "conspiracy." RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGHHT. I honestly thought you had at least a little respect for your customer's intelligence CCP...... Guess I was wrong. * *
Darrk Helmet	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:10:00 - [3187] Edited by: Darrk Helmet on 15/10/2008 07:10:30 this will probably get lost in with the other 100 pages of whining, but what id like to see is ccp introduce skill queing in response to this. i took a break from eve a while back due to lack of time/interest and i set long skills and let my accounts go inactive. I would have continued to pay my subs and trained useful smaller skills if i could have queued them. (im not emo rage quitting btw, im just asking nicely)
Amarr Hyena	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:11:00 - [3188] Uncloak the Threadnaught! ------- ghost training Threadnaught V. Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive.
Raastah Fedajin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:13:00 - [3189] Ok, so if my subscription runs out, you stop my training. Fair enough. But If my training runs out in the middle of the night and because not having a chance to train another skill while sleeping, do I now get my money back for the time I could not train? Because I am then not using the database, so saving u a lot, right? But as your take the way your country goes, I am not surprised to hear excuses for what you accepted for YEARS ! Ah no, you just found out, right ??
NereSky Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:14:00 - [3190] Originally by: NereSky Originally by: Delos Korelian Originally by: Jinx Barker ... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to shit. Aint that the truth Qft I thnk ill get this printed on a T Shirt :)

Kalintos Tyl Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:15:00 - [3191] then rp accumulation when account is inactive, reasearch jobs in npc stations and manufacturing in npc stations is bug too? :D http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/lie.jpg guide ninja edited already hidden topic: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&thread
Leica Stroganow	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:20:00 - [3192] EVE a persistant universe - sometimes
Prof Patpending Bodgit and Scarper Industrial	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:26:00 - [3193] THE THREADNAUGH COMETH
Svekke Minmatar Horizon.Inc	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:28:00 - [3194] I support ghost training removal. I'd even go a step further and have all the SP acquired by ghost training removed. Toobad it took so long. It would be nice to have a skill folowup system though. Now might be the time to bring up that issue too. You people wine too much.
Kage Psychodin Caldari The Empire Nation Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:29:00 - [3195] Yep. they screwed up. Do you really think shouting and screaming because you feel owed is going to prevent every change a game base has? I woulda liked to see the classic cap, classic nano nerf and this hit sometime in december, that would have been funny to see. (Yes I am still staying. Why? because when I log on, I log on to play. if a game is going to pull me back its because my interest is sparked again. try being part of a corp or alliance that might not even be there tomorrow before you whine about incentives to return. I might not even be able to get most of my ships or gear back half the time. I had two accounts, but not enough money to warrant the second one from its use. That is a good thing.)
Roland San	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:30:00 - [3196] TBH as much as I love eve, there's only so much time I can afford to spend playing. It's not only because I have RL stuff to attend to, it's also because that every now and then, I get eve burnout, and it's just painful to grind that one more mission, or fit out that one more ship, or spend hours chasing shadows in space with a ragtag militia. So breaks are necessary, and the 3-month GTCs, which I happily paid for, was perfect. I get to recover from too much eve, and the best thing is, when I come back, I get to have a high rank skill done to level 5, which I've never had before. The lure of getting a skill to level 5 and opening up new options was something that kept bringing me back. Bad enough there's hundreds of skills to deal with, and that we have to rely on third-party programs like eveMon to keep an eye on all this. And this is with one (1) account alone. So subscribed time is spent getting all these skills to level 4, so that one special choice can be made, that one special skill gets upped to level 5. Having that trained on unsubscribed time was the best idea ever. To return to new ships or unlocked tech 2 goodies was a bonus. It was a game feature, a selling point, a dealmaker. An unsharded world is pretty meh to me, but the fact that I can advance, while recovering from the inevitable burnout, to new stuff was something that kept me coming back. I'm not saying I'm quitting. But if this goes into effect, there goes my plans for an alt account, and you'd find the breaks in between subscriptions much longer. That's just me, CCP. I wonder how many others are thinking the same way. I wonder how many alt accounts will get shelved once this kicks in. You guys are obviously concerned about your finances. You deal with that by getting additional customers on top of keeping existing ones, not driving them away.
Maria Kalista	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:32:00 - [3197] Originally by: Raastah Fedajin Ok, so if my subscription runs out, you stop my training. Fair enough. It will stop 3 days after the last downtime, giving you fair enough time to re-subscribe.
Liranan M'8'S Frontal Impact	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:34:00 - [3198] Originally by: Raastah Fedajin Ok, so if my subscription runs out, you stop my training. Fair enough. But If my training runs out in the middle of the night and because not having a chance to train another skill while sleeping, do I now get my money back for the time I could not train? Because I am then not using the database, so saving u a lot, right? But as your take the way your country goes, I am not surprised to hear excuses for what you accepted for YEARS ! Ah no, you just found out, right ??
Ronald Carry	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:34:00 - [3199] heh, ofc the main reason are money, with the current economic crisis, iceland banks and stock market down, the get what you can is in order....
Pbs Pumpkin Scissors	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:36:00 - [3200] Ok, here the deal, the icelandic boys. We are (Russia) give you $4 bil., and you are leave ghost training alone

Kerfira	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:36:00 - [3201] Originally by: ArmyOfMe dont get me wrong, i agree with this change, and imo you should also take away rp gains and market orders from inactive accounts. what i dont agree on, it the way that ccp has started to treat its customers over the last year or so, with changes a large portion of the game disagree on. There are wast differences between your examples... Originally by: ArmyOfMe like the once proposed carrier nerf(you thankfully turned around on that one after a shitstorm of ppl said they would quit the game) The arguments against this were well reasoned, were not based on a few people wanting to keep their I-Win button, but was aimed at a change that would render a ship-class effectively unusable. Moreover, there were next to nobody who supported it. CCP took a step back, saw the comments made were valid, and responded in a sensible way. Right decision! Originally by: ArmyOfMe the nano changes that a very large portion of the game says they dont want(and yet you still dont post any replies to threads containing valid arguments, and worries about those changes) CCP saw the whines about it for what it was, primarily two groups of players plus a smattering of individuals who'd been abusing this for long, and couldn't bear to loose their I-Win button. A large proportion of the player base supports this nerf. CCP again took a step back (witness the delay in implementation), saw that the changes they proposed were still valid and the complaints were not about game mechanics but about peoples personal I-Win buttons (ie. selfish, and to the detriment of the game), and decided to go through with it. Right decision! Originally by: ArmyOfMe and now this change. Again, CCP considers the issue, decides that they're a commercial company that is not making money on giving out freebies, and changes it. A lot of players object (again for selfish reasons), and CCP sees this for what it is. Right decision! And as you all know, for every 1000 people threatening to cancel an account, 1 will do so..... Everybody complains when loosing their free lunch, but will still pay for lunch when they get hungry!
Kerien Shien	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:36:00 - [3202] Now, then if this thing goes to pass i would like my character to learn by the time i spend on it. I dont want to have those one month skills to train, should be closer to 3-4 days of time spend ingame then. I am so not gonna go and pay you for just watching my skillbar count down from 32d 3h and 53 minutes... If you want the players money then please make some better way of training instead of this pay for 4 months to advance. Then you should allso take the skills "ghosted" away from old players to make it even. But since you wont, i'd like some offers on old accounts into my mail, will pay less money than it takes to level them up but hey, there is gonna be so many inactive ones soon so at least someone can get few € back for their time spent..
Jaxxon Voers	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:38:00 - [3203] Edited by: Jaxxon Voers on 15/10/2008 07:54:34 Originally by: Lerand Gaunt Edited by: Lerand Gaunt on 15/10/2008 06:53:50 I got to admit, I am surprised. I hadn't yet seen this much emo-whining, alt-posting pretending to be another player and blatant stupidity. I were under impression that WoW had gathered most of these whinekids but this sadly proves us that there are those in EVE also. There is only one thing I can say to this: Thank god they are quitting now. Or atleast some are, most just shout forums trying to prove their point of view with broken or just plain stupid reasoning (Hello! WoW / EQ / whatever allows you to have up to X characters / server but you still can only use 1 at a time. Brains, where are you?). I WILL NOT be cancelling any of my accounts and am happily awaiting the time when I see less zero-reason-whiners in forums (as well as and in game). Edit: corrected some typoes Considering that many of the people most offended by this latest CCP fiasco are people with 4+ more years of Eve experience than you, maybe you should be concerned after all. After all, its all of the long-term hardcore players that have held this game together over the years, and I see a lot of 4-5 year players posting some seriously heated stuff in this thread. And its not the nerf, its the way its been handled that seems to have most of the adults in the room ****ed. One year in Eve isnt particularly impressive to most of us, and your post is extremely offensive to me personally. Many of the posts in this thread are well reasoned and bring up very legitimate questions and concerns. I personally couldnt care less about ghost training, one way or the other. I have used it a few times over the years, but I am not bound to it. What I think will be a spear in the side of Eve is the fact that there is now much less incentive to renew an expired character. Someone earlier in the thread stated it well...since the 'old guard' devs and GM's left, the Eve universe has been a much less interesting and fun place to play. We used to get snowball launchers and Jove attacks, now we get price increases and the nerf-bat. Interesting side note, anyone else notice the server graph isnt working?
Fink Angel Caldari The Merry Men	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:38:00 - [3204] I think CCP should familiarise themselves with Group Intelligence. Or if I may put it bluntly: You can't bullshit a bunch of bullshitters. Put me down as a vote for "Don't care about the change. Do care that we're being lied to about the reason."
Raastah Fedajin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:44:00 - [3205] Originally by: Svekke I support ghost training removal. I'd even go a step further and have all the SP acquired by ghost training removed. Toobad it took so long. It would be nice to have a skill folowup system though. Now might be the time to bring up that issue too. You people wine too much. Why don¦t you make a difference between content and behavior? Even if the ghost training is not ok, why accept it for years and have it as a feature? Why not introduce for ex the skill follow up system in the same news. Why not treat us CUSTOMERS like grown ups. I did not use the ghost training much (one time now while beeing on a holiday, feeling good that at least my character was doing something ) but I feel like this company is treating me like dirt and I am not that addicted to the game to be pushed around like they do. So that is just a decision of accept this way of treatment and information politics or not accepting it and leaving. Have to figure that out ...
Gara Al'Malik	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:45:00 - [3206] Posting in an epic whine thread! Boo hoo, I need to subscribe to a mmorpg to get my character to advance in that game. What a horrible idea and a weird and new concept!
Lustralis	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:49:00 - [3207] I use this feature a lot, because I don't play Eve that much. I'm gone for like 5 or 6 months at a time. I've played since beta 6 and ghost training was a FEATURE, not a bug. There's always a slight "pull" to signing up and playing again knowing you've got a new skill after a long time out. That's going to go now. But of course, a lot of people with ghost training accounts are going to cancel them, so I don't think CCP are doing this for the money! Way to shoot yourself in the foot.
kor anon Amarr Corporeal utopia for nasty tramps BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:49:00 - [3208] Tbh i dont even mind that they are tking it away, what i dont like is them lying to our faces then deleting posts and hiding this thread etc
Nate D Hell's Rejects	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:50:00 - [3209] I would be very surprised it CCP went through with this today. I would be taken aback by the lack of interest in customer input.
Fink Angel Caldari The Merry Men	Posted - 2008.10.15 07:50:00 - [3210] I'll sum up what happened. CCP money man meets CCP dev at the coffee machine. Smalltalk ensues. "You're letting people do WHAT???" Devs ordered to make changes by management.



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... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to shit.