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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Kethot
Ordo Drakonis
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.16 14:16:00 -
[4081]
This decision is kinda stupid. This will just lead to closing accounts obviously and if you think people will pay more regularly without ghost learning you are wrong. I dont like a month of training/time sink and I dislike paying for it even more. |
Nate D
Hell's Rejects
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Posted - 2008.10.16 14:17:00 -
[4082]
 Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Rethie
When reading up before subscription, considering all my cost of living etc, the thing that eventually made me sub was inactive training, for the fact of real life commitments, at least if I could not sub, I could come back and with some pre planning, have advanced a level on something.
As a parent of someone who has their majority (which I lose sleep at night about!) I can only say that I'm glad CCP has encouraged you to be more insightful about what luxuries you spend your meager income on. After all, you should be discouraged from making bad fiscal choices that overextend you or your available time. Bully for you mate, welcome to the adult club.
Wow Shar... don't be so shallow. I manage my income too and sometimes find it difficult to justify paying for EVE. I also enjoy coming back to a new lvl 5 skill after taking a break. Going on 5 years of subscribing to EVE I've only taken advantage of this once but for CCP to remove this feature is ridiculous. They will lose more than they'll gain. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.10.16 14:18:00 -
[4083]
Originally by: Hun Jakuza
No, we hate the gaylentes, so we dont go to adult club. :D
Where are all the good men?They already have boyfriends!For a girl the are real slim pickings when looking for a man with class, cleanliness, and intelligence. So I'm happy them gaylentes are around.  (Female toon, I'm not female.)
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Par'Gellen
Tres Hombres
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Posted - 2008.10.16 14:24:00 -
[4084]
Edited by: Par''Gellen on 16/10/2008 14:25:56
This is good news. Long overdue. Thanks!
In short, if you want to play you have to pay. I like this concept. |
Grismar
Gallente
The Establishment
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Posted - 2008.10.16 14:24:00 -
[4085]
After 135 pages of posts, how can I -not- post :p
I can only agree with the decision to fix it in the first place, it's a stupid feature and only supports RMT character farming. But I think it's just plain stupid to have waited this long.
Right now, you leave people no other choice than believing that the only reason you left it in was to inflate the number of people that had active accounts from time to time, to improve the image of the corporation with investors and for purposes of promotion.
A serious gaffe either way and in the very best case a case of laziness. In the worst case, you're greedy capitalists that are only after our money and you still don't have to worry. After all, we buy the games of other greedy capitalists that are only after our money too. I'm going to go with 'lazy' and 'unwise' all the same. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.10.16 14:27:00 -
[4086]
Originally by: Grismar
I can only agree with the decision to fix it in the first place, it's a stupid feature and only supports RMT character farming. But I think it's just plain stupid to have waited this long.
<snip>
After all, we buy the games of other greedy capitalists that are only after our money too. I'm going to go with 'lazy' and 'unwise' all the same.
This. Nice to see one of the good ones still around as well. I still use explorer regularly mate. |
Skeo
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Posted - 2008.10.16 14:45:00 -
[4087]
After reading t0rfifrans blog I have several things to say:
1st: If this truly was a "bug", as CCP said it was, why on earth did it take them 5 years to fix? This "bug" has been in your game for so long now that is is considered a "feature". You have now removed the game of one of it's features.
In addition, if it truly was a "bug", it goes to show you how poorly CCP manages to fix it's bugs. It apparently has 5 years worth of bugs to fix.
2nd: If CCP wants all of it's players to be subscribed at once while training, expect to see a large increase of online players. At the moment, CCP can barely "manage" the number of people online at any given time. Please tell me how you plan to handle all of the players, CCP.
3rd: This feature does not ruin the balance of the game. While playing, you earn more ISK and enjoy playing the game (whether it's PVP, PVE, or otherwise). While unsubscribed, you do not get any of this, save for being up to date skill-wise. (Eg: You've finished cruiser V after a month hiatus, but you don't have the ISK to buy a HAC because you haven't been playing).
This feature is what has kept me drawn to the game after taking a break for exams, work, etc. I feel that if I were to take a break again, I would have no motivation to return to the game.
Also may I add that I do not have any alts, this is my only character, and I am not trying to spam the thread as some people are. This is my opinion and I am seriously considering making my next "break" an indefinite one. |
Apeshit
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Posted - 2008.10.16 14:52:00 -
[4088]
This new change is terrible. If I'm away from the game at any point it's been great knowing that a new skill/ship is ready to come back to. Definately been a major consideration whether I resub or not.
CCP you suk badly. 
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
Revelation Space
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Posted - 2008.10.16 14:55:00 -
[4089]
Originally by: Gara Al'Malik
Originally by: Sironus
Well, I quit maybe two or three times a year... Then, when I get bored enough again, I log in to try out whatever new ships I ghost-trained.
Next time I get bored enough to sign up again, I won't have any new stuff waiting for me to fly.
...I won't be coming back again. I cancelled last night. That's that. Game over.
Can I have your stuff? Oh you canceled already. Well if you happen to make a come back send me your stuff before you cancel again.
...and don't forget to set a long skill training just in case you decide to come back
/runs
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Midas Man
Caldari
Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2008.10.16 14:56:00 -
[4090]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
[justify] Originally by: Midas Man
oh and by the way Copy and Pasting intullectual information from Wiki doesn't make you smart.
It appears reading is not your strong suit. The link did not go to any Wiki.
Self pwnzor 4tl.
erm and where did i state that that post related to copy/paste from wiki.
Your whole life is spent in a basement you think your uber good because your Isk balance is phat. Your claims of being interlectual are only testament to 16 hours a day you spend google searching and wiki's.
And you get a boner from forum whoring from your high Horse.
Step down from that horse take a wander out of your basement, there is more to life than Eve-O forums and Isk making. |
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Nate D
Hell's Rejects
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Posted - 2008.10.16 14:56:00 -
[4091]
It comes down to the economic ideas of consumer surplus and product value.
CCP is hedging their bets to see if subscribers will continue to have the same amount of consumer surplus when the price of maintaining their accounts rises exponentially. Though it's proven that when price rises (without significant product advancement), value decreases along with consumer surplus. It's easy to see that CCP has made no significant advancements to the management of multiple accounts or the way skills are trained to add value for the consumer. Thus CCP ends up with less revenue.
They don't call economics the dismal science for nothing but I'd really like to hear what CCP's own Dr.EyjoG thinks of the possible outcomes of this move.
Call it what you will, "you must pay for service" or whatever. But we're really talking about revenue dollars for CCP. I think that they're playing the wrong hand here. They will make more revenue the other way. |
Blackjack Turner
Caldari
Inverted Awareness
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Posted - 2008.10.16 14:58:00 -
[4092]
Play da game. You guys amaze me. No other game allows (at least to my knowledge) you to train skills while you sleep. Some of you are angry that you cannot train skills while your account is inactive? WTF??!
Go play some Ultima Online and spend an afternoon whacking trees with an axe to improve a crafting skill.
Then ***** to me about training while your account isn't even active!
Can I have your stuff?  |
Ilda Mrika
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:04:00 -
[4093]
Originally by: Blackjack Turner
Play da game. You guys amaze me. No other game allows (at least to my knowledge) you to train skills while you sleep. Some of you are angry that you cannot train skills while your account is inactive? WTF??!
Since when you skill up by playing EVE? You gain the exact same sp's being logged, while you sleep or while you take a crap. D o y o u u n d e r s t a n d ? |
Hun Jakuza
Naughty By Nature
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:04:00 -
[4094]
Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 16/10/2008 15:05:52
Originally by: Blackjack Turner
Play da game. You guys amaze me. No other game allows (at least to my knowledge) you to train skills while you sleep. Some of you are angry that you cannot train skills while your account is inactive? WTF??!
Go play some Ultima Online and spend an afternoon whacking trees with an axe to improve a crafting skill.
Then ***** to me about training while your account isn't even active!
Can I have your stuff?
But first we should be go, we see it how goes Eve to ruin like a SWG.
And send for me a message and i send for you a noobship just for you if you want some stuff, may be you can fly with Ibis.
But i wrong, i think you can't, just beg like a beggar. |
Midas Man
Caldari
Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:10:00 -
[4095]
Edited by: Midas Man on 16/10/2008 15:14:34
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Hun Jakuza
No, we hate the gaylentes, so we dont go to adult club. :D
Where are all the good men?They already have boyfriends!For a girl the are real slim pickings when looking for a man with class, cleanliness, and intelligence. So I'm happy them gaylentes are around. (Female toon, I'm not female.)
Ahhh got you so your one of these internet pervs who pretends to be a young girl to prey on other unsuspecting young girls.
There are alot on the internet but atleast we unveiled 1
edit fixed quote |
Velda Chulai
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:14:00 -
[4096]
Edited by: Velda Chulai on 16/10/2008 15:14:47
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Midas Man
You run off to find your furnishing list and see a line has been added next to TV saying "Landlord retains the right to revoke this option at any time"
Difference between Features and Guide.In CCP's case, the tv was left there. Accident, small present, who cares. You then decided to go blaring it all hours of the night and abusing a privilege that was not yours... the landlord took the tv. Now, you have the right to be ****ed off if the landlord didn't tell you he was going into your flat. However every landlord reserves the right to enter for work, modification, and/or recovery of his property. Of course if you like you can litigate the matter or, if you don't have any leg to stand on, you can stand outside your flat screaming and whining about how the world has done you wrong and woah's me. Please, continue to cry your big alligator tears about budget and life and constraints. Saves me going to the threatres and paying Hollywood for a bullshit sob story. But the truth is that the good players got hurt not by what CCP did, or even how they did it, but by the fact that other players defaced a game mechanic from rampant abuse. I do alot of api auditing for the Eve equivalent of "wall street". I see some of the abuse CCP is talking about on a regular basis. It is the reason I brought the matter up to the CSM board back in June. Responsible adults know that if something is free but being sucked dry, it disappears. Children only know, I had it, it is gone, <wail>. Simple really. Much like yourself.
Sorry but your version of the story makes no sense, because the ghost trainers used less resources than the TV in this case (if the volume were up, that would be akin to creating additional load/work for the GMs, which according tot eh EULA results in warnings followed by a ban).
A better example would be to say that a landlord gave you parking as part of the lease. The problem is that the landlord wasn't being specific, so you decide that, as a bus driver, you're going to park a 20 foot long bus in that parking spot. The Landlord wakes up the following day and thinks "Uh... What the hell is that?". He stumbles out of bed, gets down the stairs, and marvels at this huge bus in his driveway. He's a bit shocked by it, but they edit their tenant's agreement so that future bus drivers can park their buses in his property parking spots - After talking about it, the tennants agree to pay extra rent for their buses.
A few years later he goes to one of his Chinese rental properties and declares that he doesn't want buses parked. He specifically goes back to his other rental property and says "Don't worry guys, you're not affected!"
And then some time later he issues citations for 48 hour notice.
The Bus Drivers are understandably livid now. Their Landlord has given them no time to prepare and has gone from friendly to seemingly schizophrenic. Sure, he seems to have the right to do this. Meanwhile anyone parking a a Mini is suddenly laughing at the Bus Drivers - They should be driving more economic vehicles or getting off the road. Some of the Bus Drivers think "Sure, I was paying for all of those parking spots but I guess I should switch to being a Cab Driver".
The difference is that in Eve, there is no lost physical space. The "Bus Drivers" leave virtually no footprint of any kind, in fact. The Landlord in this case has lost a lot of rent, and some of the tenants are moving out.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:26:00 -
[4097]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
(Female toon, I'm not female.)
Originally by: Midas Man
Ahhh got you so your one of these internet pervs who pretends to be a young girl to prey on other unsuspecting young girls. There are alot on the internet but atleast we unveiled 1
Man, you've got a real emo-flame thing going on here. Did I steal your girlfriend in another life or something? Having a female avatar makes me a pervert. Wow, with logic like that I can now see why you choose not to get it. Of course there is a reason I have a female avatar other than perversion (you should see someone about that) that was explained over a year ago. I now exercise my option of <last word> on you. I can only hope you are one of those who unsubs. Might improve the nature of discussion around here without your ... issues... spewing forth. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:28:00 -
[4098]
Originally by: Velda Chulai
The difference is that in Eve, there is no lost physical space. The "Bus Drivers" leave virtually no footprint of any kind, in fact. The Landlord in this case has lost a lot of rent, and some of the tenants are moving out.
Bon Voyage!
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Ramblin Man
Empyreum
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:34:00 -
[4099]
Thread tl;dr
Second Account
Considering the training times on 'heavy' skills and the frequent (and fairly arbitrary) rebalances, there goes my second account (so that's $0/month, instead of the 'gaming-the-system' money from it I was planning on paying).
Primary Account
Considering the bullshit official line on this (which afaik has been "It's a feature!" -> "We're thinking of removing it." -> "We aren't removing it, because we know you use it.") has changed to the ludicrious "We're removing it, because we didn't know you used it!", that's a pretty hefty hit on my motivation for a primary account. This is the biggest fu(kup since t20 got away with spawning T2 BPOs.
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Velda Chulai
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:35:00 -
[4100]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Shar Tegral
(Female toon, I'm not female.)
Originally by: Midas Man
Ahhh got you so your one of these internet pervs who pretends to be a young girl to prey on other unsuspecting young girls. There are alot on the internet but atleast we unveiled 1
...emo-flame...
There is no flame but emo-flame! |
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Nate D
Hell's Rejects
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:39:00 -
[4101]
Originally by: Ramblin Man
Thread tl;dr
Second Account
Considering the training times on 'heavy' skills and the frequent (and fairly arbitrary) rebalances, there goes my second account (so that's $0/month, instead of the 'gaming-the-system' money from it I was planning on paying).
Primary Account
Considering the bullshit official line on this (which afaik has been "It's a feature!" -> "We're thinking of removing it." -> "We aren't removing it, because we know you use it.") has changed to the ludicrious "We're removing it, because we didn't know you used it!", that's a pretty hefty hit on my motivation for a primary account.
<snip>
This is a great example of wasted consumer surplus due to an exponential increase in price and decreased game value.
CCP has made a bad revenue decision here. |
Cutesmile
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:41:00 -
[4102]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Shar Tegral
(Female toon, I'm not female.)
Originally by: Midas Man
Ahhh got you so your one of these internet pervs who pretends to be a young girl to prey on other unsuspecting young girls. There are alot on the internet but atleast we unveiled 1
Man, you've got a real emo-flame thing going on here. Did I steal your girlfriend in another life or something? Having a female avatar makes me a pervert. Wow, with logic like that I can now see why you choose not to get it. Of course there is a reason I have a female avatar other than perversion (you should see someone about that) that was explained over a year ago. I now exercise my option of <last word> on you. I can only hope you are one of those who unsubs. Might improve the nature of discussion around here without your ... issues... spewing forth.
Man you are one realy pesky idiot, who cant bear if anyone said truth. |
Brother Welcome
Amarr
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:47:00 -
[4103]
Edited by: Brother Welcome on 16/10/2008 15:48:29
Originally by: Grismar
I can only agree with the decision to fix it in the first place, it's a stupid feature and only supports RMT character farming. But I think it's just plain stupid to have waited this long.
Right now, you leave people no other choice than believing that the only reason you left it in was to inflate the number of people that had active accounts from time to time, to improve the image of the corporation with investors and for purposes of promotion.
You raise an interesting point. Does it seem likely that CCP incorporated the feature to inflate user statistics? My view is that it's tin-foil hattery to believe that, but since they still have ghost-research and ghost-trading some inflation must still apply.
So far as RMT goes, CCP sanctions RMT by selling GTCs and facilitating their conversion to ISK. You might find that objectionable, but ghost-skilling has nothing to do with it.
You could make a solid case suggesting that ghost-skilling exerts a downward pressure on character trade prices, but you also need to show how that matters. Having expressed a distaste for RMT, you contradict yourself if you argue that character trade prices should be higher.
-vk
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Velda Chulai
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:52:00 -
[4104]
I'm not sure what to buy more: That Shar is obviously trolling this thread or that Navigator hasn't caught up to that yet.
There is no rage but emo-rage! |
Nate D
Hell's Rejects
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:55:00 -
[4105]
Come on CCP... Call this off already and apologize! Then we can work towards the goal of disabling this, TOGETHER, as a community. It will require change to the game, the way skills and multiple accounts are handled. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:57:00 -
[4106]
Originally by: Cutesmile
Man you are one realy pesky idiot, who cant bear if anyone said truth.
I enjoyed you calling me an idiot. I mean an NPC corp hugging courier mission running alt is obviously the deliverer of truth. So sayeth the alts, so sayeth we rabble - rabble. (Don't these people realize I can't be trolled into getting banned? When I get banned it is because I choose it. ) |
Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs
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Posted - 2008.10.16 16:17:00 -
[4107]
Originally by: Xhanti
Originally by: Clansworth
Even after the change, I still feel that EVE has the best skill system of any MMO out there, simply because you don't have to Grind for XP. You can spend your playing time actually PLAYING the game, and not worry about focusing on bettering your character. This change is not affecting that at all.
"bettering" your character IS the game, else go to a chat room and play D&D.
I guess you and I are playing a completely different game. I enjoy actually flying the ship. I enjoy combat. I enjoy the logistical challenge of running an industrial process. THIS is what I enjoy about EvE. If all you wanted to do was 'level up', why don't you go play any of the other MMORPG's out there that FOCUS on that? |
IronPants
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Posted - 2008.10.16 16:23:00 -
[4108]
Originally by: Xhanti
Originally by: Clansworth
Even after the change, I still feel that EVE has the best skill system of any MMO out there, simply because you don't have to Grind for XP. You can spend your playing time actually PLAYING the game, and not worry about focusing on bettering your character. This change is not affecting that at all.
"bettering" your character IS the game, else go to a chat room and play D&D.
The flip side to this..if you want that shiny capital ship (poor soul) you get to train battleship V and other fun long skills..which are simply the most ingenious time sinks out.Besides buying +5 implants and learning skills (time sink to lessen a greater time sink)... nothing can be done to speed that up. Now your paying for 2-3 months subscription to get that shiney new toy trained..and they know if you want it they got ya by the gonads cash wise.
Sometimes it might be better to grind xp than wait a month-3 months to fly that new toy .
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Thymos Anima
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Posted - 2008.10.16 16:35:00 -
[4109]
While I feel mixed about this, new player, I can see why the old veterans of EvE are outraged, since they might have more than 1 accout. If a level 5 takes 1-2 months, puting that account on stand-by and still training was a great feature.
What I never understood as a new player is why I get to create 3 chars per account, but only one char at the time can train his skills? That is like having one char in a sense, not 3. Pay to train your skills sounds reasonable, but limiting the skill train to just one char is like saying "Go buy a new account if you want an alt".
I was a bit surprised to see my second char on the same account saying "Your other char is training XXX skill, do you really want to continue?" lol.
So I guess if you limit the training skill to only subscribed accounts then, at least, let me train an alt at the same time on my 1 account.
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Hul'ka
Minmatar
MicroFunks
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Posted - 2008.10.16 16:36:00 -
[4110]
Originally by: Clansworth
Originally by: Xhanti
Originally by: Clansworth
Even after the change, I still feel that EVE has the best skill system of any MMO out there, simply because you don't have to Grind for XP. You can spend your playing time actually PLAYING the game, and not worry about focusing on bettering your character. This change is not affecting that at all.
"bettering" your character IS the game, else go to a chat room and play D&D.
I guess you and I are playing a completely different game. I enjoy actually flying the ship. I enjoy combat. I enjoy the logistical challenge of running an industrial process. THIS is what I enjoy about EvE. If all you wanted to do was 'level up', why don't you go play any of the other MMORPG's out there that FOCUS on that?
EVE is not about leveling, but it's essential to learne skills to be able to do new stuff, fly new ships, etc. When i pay for this game i pay to build, to invent, to fly, to shoot...
Me, and few of my friends was using ghost training for few reasons. Either we wanted a brake from the game, or we had some RL issues, or whatever. So, we let our accounts expire while we ware doing what needed to be donne. And I can tell ya, we ware motivated to come back when those skills complete.
But, recent activities (nano nerf and total lack of dev reponce to hundreds and hundreds of player posts) and now this greedy move makes an emo out of me and i'm not willing to pay for a game that is run by that kind of people with that kind of attitude. Still have month and a half until subsscription expires for 2 of my active accounts and that will be it.
I really hope all of this will be sorted out, fixed, hope some people will get fired for doing a bad job and hope I'll see most of you once again in space. |
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