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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Lorac Caladon Caldari The Cowboy Junkies	Posted - 2008.11.13 19:53:00 - [5521] Originally by: Fiona Mars...d) IÆve honestly not see anyone post a link to anywhere stating explicitly the Ghost-Training was a legit feature. IÆm willing to concede the point only if you can show me something written by the hand of a CCP employee saying it was, (e.g. an old EULA). [/quote Not a clause in the EULA but CCP written none-the-less
Lorac Caladon Caldari The Cowboy Junkies	Posted - 2008.11.13 20:23:00 - [5522] Originally by: Swoopdeath I can't believe the amount of whining this thread contains! Guys it's 15 bucks a month...less if you purchase multiple months. I realize that some people may not be able to afford multiple video game accounts in this economy...but if you can't afford 15 bucks a month then you probably should spend it on food and STFU. Ok I'm done. CCP good job. The only thing I might suggest is a small training queue because it is a pain in the butt to do the shorter skill trainings. Maybe just make it one skill deep or by time...ie Max 2 skills OR 48 hours etc.. And yet ANOTHER poster that does not understand the scope of the issue. Seriously, if you can't be bothered to make an informed argument, why do you even bother to post? This is not meant as flame towards you, I just really don't understand why posters such as yourself feel like it's necessary to ignore ALL of the facts put before you.
Squirrrel Gallente Squirrrel Industries	Posted - 2008.11.13 21:07:00 - [5523] Originally by: Swoopdeath I can't believe the amount of whining this thread contains! Guys it's 15 bucks a month...less if you purchase multiple months. I realize that some people may not be able to afford multiple video game accounts in this economy...but if you can't afford 15 bucks a month then you probably should spend it on food and STFU. I have food, I have money left over luxuries - $15, 30, 45, 60 a month.... nothing really. Drop in the ocean. However, I'm not an idiot. And I don't expect CCP to treat me like one with the lies they spun out about the reasons for this change. I don't like giving money to people that lie to me. I'd rather not do that and take money from them in some manner. That's all it amounts to. Well done to all the CCP alts and fanbois trying to troll the crap out of this thread to get it closed. I know CCP employees have supposedly been gagged, we can expect that's only on official characters eh? I totally understand you have the need to vent on these ridiculous alts to protect your stance, but seriously. Next step to this, is to flood Atari with all the bad press, and let them know that to get into bed with CCP might have a knock-on effect on their products too. Good luck to all the actual fanbois here though. You'll get yours. Maybe in one, two, three years time when you're playing a pale version of what EvE used to be and you get ****ed yourself or fed up with being treated like a moron.
Squirrrel Gallente Squirrrel Industries	Posted - 2008.11.13 21:08:00 - [5524] Oh and enjoy ambulation. Wonder if they will put in a bit where you can join t0rfins and co. in station and you bend over to receive their customer service?
Chani Fedaykin	Posted - 2008.11.13 21:15:00 - [5525] Originally by: Fiona Mars I don't think there was ever going to be a good spin to put on this decision. It's totally pants, but it was the accounts department that made this decision. And by the looks of things, not many CCP accounts play EVE. You can just imagine the guys in the devs office. An email comes down from above - we've decided to cut ghost-training, decide amoung yourselves who's going to tell the players. Maybe they have a clench of short straws for these occasions. i dont care who is responsible for the decision, nor if anyone was 'forced' to present it to the playerbase. ...and if they let bad luck choose who has to announce it to public ... to the players ... which are the customers and finally pay the bills ... it would be just plain stupid again and not acceptable. if a company has to make a decision (for whatever reasons) that obviously will not please a high percentage of their customers (especially loyal ones, that stuck to eve for a long time and have multiple accounts) - its absolutely neccessary to formulate and present the decision properly ... which (obviously again) was not the case. Originally by: Lorac Caladon Originally by: Swoopdeath I can't believe the amount of whining this thread contains! Guys it's 15 bucks a month...less if you purchase multiple months. I realize that some people may not be able to afford multiple video game accounts in this economy...but if you can't afford 15 bucks a month then you probably should spend it on food and STFU. Ok I'm done. CCP good job. The only thing I might suggest is a small training queue because it is a pain in the butt to do the shorter skill trainings. Maybe just make it one skill deep or by time...ie Max 2 skills OR 48 hours etc.. And yet ANOTHER poster that does not understand the scope of the issue. Seriously, if you can't be bothered to make an informed argument, why do you even bother to post? This is not meant as flame towards you, I just really don't understand why posters such as yourself feel like it's necessary to ignore ALL of the facts put before you. nothing more to add
Squirrrel Gallente Squirrrel Industries	Posted - 2008.11.13 21:22:00 - [5526] Edited by: Squirrrel on 13/11/2008 21:22:00 Originally by: Fiona Mars d) IÆve honestly not see anyone post a link to anywhere stating explicitly the Ghost-Training was a legit feature. IÆm willing to concede the point only if you can show me something written by the hand of a CCP employee saying it was, (e.g. an old EULA). I'll try to find the posts where they were linked from, and the old user guide that stated it for 5 years... might be able to find it written on Moses' tablets if you want to help me look for them... Originally by: CCP Wrangler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (April 2007) The skill trains until the level you're currently training is completed. You can't start training on the next level or new skill until you login of course -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Jiekon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (November 2006) Hi folks. I just want to let you know that skill training WILL continue while the account is inactive. I had picked this up wrong when i was speaking to Wrangler before and i mistakenly told him that skills stop training when accounts go inactive, this is why it was included in the patch notes and it's entirely my fault. This was a mistake on my part and the patch notes will be changed and that line removed as soon as possible. Apologies for the misunderstandings
Phidell Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.13 21:40:00 - [5527] If we are literally paying for training time, give us the ****in skill queue already!
Swoopdeath Skorpid Industries	Posted - 2008.11.14 00:40:00 - [5528] Originally by: Lorac Caladon Originally by: Swoopdeath I can't believe the amount of whining this thread contains! Guys it's 15 bucks a month...less if you purchase multiple months. I realize that some people may not be able to afford multiple video game accounts in this economy...but if you can't afford 15 bucks a month then you probably should spend it on food and STFU. Ok I'm done. CCP good job. The only thing I might suggest is a small training queue because it is a pain in the butt to do the shorter skill trainings. Maybe just make it one skill deep or by time...ie Max 2 skills OR 48 hours etc.. And yet ANOTHER poster that does not understand the scope of the issue. Seriously, if you can't be bothered to make an informed argument, why do you even bother to post? This is not meant as flame towards you, I just really don't understand why posters such as yourself feel like it's necessary to ignore ALL of the facts put before you. Look if you disagree with me that's fine. But don't say I'm totally uninformed...I've played Eve for years on multiple accounts, taken advantage of the ghost training sometimes, and run my own RL business which has to make decisions similar to these everyday. I know the weighing of options you have to make between customer retention and profit margins etc. I respect your opinion so chill out with the smack. The point I wanted to make was that many people are very upset and whining to CCP while not stopping to look at the companies point of view. If you really don't like the game now quit and put an opinion in to CCP. If they get enough hassle they WILL change it back. Just depends if people put their money where their mouth is.
Chani Fedaykin	Posted - 2008.11.14 01:13:00 - [5529] Originally by: Swoopdeath Look if you disagree with me that's fine. But don't say I'm totally uninformed...I've played Eve for years on multiple accounts, taken advantage of the ghost training sometimes, and run my own RL business which has to make decisions similar to these everyday. I know the weighing of options you have to make between customer retention and profit margins etc. I respect your opinion so chill out with the smack. The point I wanted to make was that many people are very upset and whining to CCP while not stopping to look at the companies point of view. If you really don't like the game now quit and put an opinion in to CCP. If they get enough hassle they WILL change it back. Just depends if people put their money where their mouth is. well - the one point that you did not adress in any fashion is, that many ppl are not even upset because ghost training was removed, but how ccp treated their customers. i just suppose that if you run your own business, that you try to not give obviously invalid reasons to your customers - especially about a decision that is very likely to not please them a lot. as stated several times already, its their decision ... and their money - however they should be 'man' enough to stand to their decision and the reasons behing it, and (at least try to) transport the message to their customers in an acceptable and appropriate manner.
Swoopdeath Skorpid Industries	Posted - 2008.11.14 01:24:00 - [5530] Originally by: Chani Fedaykin well - the one point that you did not adress in any fashion is, that many ppl are not even upset because ghost training was removed, but how ccp treated their customers. i just suppose that if you run your own business, that you try to not give obviously invalid reasons to your customers - especially about a decision that is very likely to not please them a lot. as stated several times already, its their decision ... and their money - however they should be 'man' enough to stand to their decision and the reasons behing it, and (at least try to) transport the message to their customers in an acceptable and appropriate manner. Agreed - would be nice to see a more "honest" CCP official release on the topic.
Azraeljbs	Posted - 2008.11.14 04:50:00 - [5531] Edited by: Azraeljbs on 14/11/2008 04:53:00 Still no official response from CCP on this thread other than the BS posted way back and a few snips of moderation. So after pulling this wonderfully handled PR snafu They release a patch with shiny new toys and the new way to get 30day subs. :clap:clap: Only problem is the patch is full of fail. The intended fixes for lag ie....STACKLESS IO, and EVE64 didn't have the intended effect. Hell a lot of people could not even log into certain regions of the game. Those that could ran into dissapearing gates, ships, planets and moons, among many other problems you can see for yourself in the QUANTUM RISE ISSUES thread. Looks like another rushed launch to grab as many customers as possible. The speed nerfs went over like a ton of bricks, people are not pleased at all. Sadly this is the path CCP has been running down full force for over a year now, they've got their head down looking at the ground rushing by them, faster and faster........but they don't see the brick wall they are about to run into. Fanfest brought many anouncements and promises of much new shiny stuff to come, an EVE FPS later down the road on consoles, MODULAR SHIPS, TRUE EXPLORATION containing new space that will open up T3. All of this will be done by MARCH?????? I almost feel bad for ATARI because if QR is full of fail immagine what all these promises will be like when it hits the store shelves in 4 MONTHS!!!! 4 months to balance modular ships? let alone T3 I smell another fail coming on. CCP should already be seeing the first results of cancelled accounts soon. I have a few more months on mine. I feel bad for those expecting great things from CCP in the near future. From this thread alone you can see their true motivation is not to build a game for the players but rather to build revenue while ruining a once great product, much like the way SONY killed SWG and Planetside, EVE I'm afriad may suffer the same fate and fade quietly into obscurity. If you check the home page for CCP. You see what is says right there on the picture of their offices?? I LOLed. Can I blame them? No, they are a company their purpose and bottom line is to make money, someone mentioned earlier that CCP is responsible to it's stock holders, that is incorrect they are not a publicly traded company with stock. They are a privately held company. You could say that we are the investors, the player base that they seem to be slowly pushing away. I believe this is one of many sweeping changes in a conspiracy to get rid of the vets so that when the new shiny box edition hits the shelves the newer players can go out and populate EVE all over again without getting turned into scrap metal and biomass too quickly. But I could just be paranoid. I guess I'm done venting for now. I really wish we could get a response to this thread and have a meaningful discussion with a CCP employee about this issue. But instead they ignore us and insult us with sayings like "I immagine the thread content is still the same?". It's if if they have been told they cannot entertain a discussion on the topic. One of the largest threads in the history of the forums and no discussion from the devs. I feel slighted, ignored, ** on, and **ed off. Keep spamming the in-game channels with this thread, there are many people who know nothing of this feature being removed. I still find at least 3 people everytime I log on.
Zanpt Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.14 14:39:00 - [5532] Originally by: Phidell If we are literally paying for training time, give us the **in skill queue already! It's not an either-or. There's no technical challenge in bringing back unsubscribed training and adding a skill queue of some kind that would only work for subscribed accounts. And I'll say once again, unsubbed training had zero loading effect on the CCP servers. They were not providing any kind of "service" that cost them anything. Unsubbed training was a friendly feature, was cited as a feature, and worked to the great financial benefit of CCP by luring ppl back into the game, and often sooner than they might otherwise have returned. To nerf it was unimaginably stupid. To lie and claim it was a bug, then spin it another 4, 5, 6 ways, ultimately letting slip that it was "a business decision" (trans: money), was insulting, offensive, cheap, tawdry, and unethical. And for it to have been a money-based decision clearly indicates that the decision was made by ppl who know nothing about the game or the player base. Since unsubbed training could only follow being subscribed, acquiring the skillbook, and being online to kick off the next level, and since the completion was in no way any indication of actual work on the part of the servers but merely an out-of-game calendar date/time, like a post-it note stuck on the wall, I take the view that the training completion was already bought and paid for the moment the training step was clicked to start. The only thing one had to wait for before using the new skill level was a calendar date/time unrelated to anything to do with the servers. The training completion was not so much a completion as it was an enforced waiting period unrelated to game play. It was natural that it was also unrelated to account status. In preventing unsubbed training CCP actually had to create new code that does impose a load on the servers. To stop training on an account going inactive they have to have a process go into the char data and change some fields. Before, unsubbed training required no action whatsoever** on the part of the servers -- not during the "training" and not on "completion" of the training. "Completion" was detected only upon the client logging in, which of course required that the account be reactivated. So I therefore also take the view that in nerfing unsubbed training CCP actually stole value already bought and paid for.
Squirrrel Gallente Squirrrel Industries	Posted - 2008.11.14 15:42:00 - [5533] Originally by: Swoopdeath Originally by: Lorac Caladon Originally by: Swoopdeath I can't believe the amount of whining this thread contains! Guys it's 15 bucks a month...less if you purchase multiple months. I realize that some people may not be able to afford multiple video game accounts in this economy...but if you can't afford 15 bucks a month then you probably should spend it on food and STFU. Ok I'm done. CCP good job. The only thing I might suggest is a small training queue because it is a pain in the butt to do the shorter skill trainings. Maybe just make it one skill deep or by time...ie Max 2 skills OR 48 hours etc.. And yet ANOTHER poster that does not understand the scope of the issue. Seriously, if you can't be bothered to make an informed argument, why do you even bother to post? This is not meant as flame towards you, I just really don't understand why posters such as yourself feel like it's necessary to ignore ALL of the facts put before you. Look if you disagree with me that's fine. But don't say I'm totally uninformed...I've played Eve for years on multiple accounts, taken advantage of the ghost training sometimes, and run my own RL business which has to make decisions similar to these everyday. ... Can you get your people to read the nature of the thread, report back to you and then contact our people then please? The reponse to yours was accurate and telling people to STFU and to chill out with smack? <tut tut>
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.11.14 17:28:00 - [5534] Still no word from CCP. Well, here is one of my last words. Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended2008-11-16 Total Number Of Payments: None of your business. Cancel Subscription Cancellation Expires: 2008-11-16 13:48:18 Remaining Playtime: 1d:20h:21m Goodbye. Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008
Swoopdeath Skorpid Industries	Posted - 2008.11.14 18:15:00 - [5535] Originally by: Squirrrel} Can you get your people to read the nature of the thread, report back to you and then contact our people then please? The reponse to yours was accurate and telling people to STFU and to chill out with smack? <tut tut>[/quote You talked a lot there but didn't say much...if you disagree I already posted that I could respect your opinion, but you have to actually add something. Saying "talk to my people" doesn't do anything. And the STFU was already stated toward the WHINING. What SOME people don't understand is...whining is whining no matter if you're right or wrong. I'd love to see an organized coalition of players who plan to all cancel their accounts and show CCP the business, but I just doubt that this is any more than their whining at how "unfair" the world is.
Squirrrel Gallente Squirrrel Industries	Posted - 2008.11.14 18:47:00 - [5536] Originally by: Swoopdeath You talked a lot there but didn't say much...if you disagree I already posted that I could respect your opinion, but you have to actually add something. Saying "talk to my people" doesn't do anything. And the STFU was already stated toward the WHINING. "Talk to your people" was sarcasm. Originally by: Swoopdeath What SOME people don't understand is...whining is whining no matter if you're right or wrong. I'd love to see an organized coalition of players who plan to all cancel their accounts and show CCP the business, but I just doubt that this is any more than their whining at how "unfair" the world is. I'm glad I don't work for you then, sounds like you can't see a difference between some whining and general customer complaints and protests. It's actually you that talks a lot and says not much at all, except that you haven't really established the nature of those complaints and concerns since you can't see beyond a "whine."
Lorac Caladon Caldari The Cowboy Junkies	Posted - 2008.11.14 20:17:00 - [5537] Originally by: Swoopdeath Look if you disagree with me that's fine. But don't say I'm totally uninformed...I've played Eve for years on multiple accounts, taken advantage of the ghost training sometimes, and run my own RL business which has to make decisions similar to these everyday. I know the weighing of options you have to make between customer retention and profit margins etc. I respect your opinion so chill out with the smack. The point I wanted to make was that many people are very upset and whining to CCP while not stopping to look at the companies point of view. If you really don't like the game now quit and put an opinion in to CCP. If they get enough hassle they WILL change it back. Just depends if people put their money where their mouth is. I do disagree with you on just about everything that you have posted (so far) in this thread. And to be honest, you are proving that my initial statement was spot on. First, I did not say that you were misinformed (totally or otherwise). I stated (in question form) that I believe that you IGNORE the facts. Your "time in game" or real life profession does not interest me in the least. Look, the "you aren't seeing it from CCP's POV" argument has been systemically torn down. The posters that are seriously opposed to this change (and other recent changes) have shown where this is not a smart business move. And when combined with the other changes (GTC, nano, missiles etc...) it could end up being "game-over". Unlike some, I don't necessarily want the game to "jump the shark". I love it. But I also have a duty to myself to not support people that I feel are dishonest. And they make BAD decisions as well. To that end, I have cancelled this account and let my alt-main (whatever) expire. I am voicing my opinion until the last minute in hopes that someone from the "Old" CCP grabs the "New" CCP by the short and curlies and puts things "right".
Lorac Caladon Caldari The Cowboy Junkies	Posted - 2008.11.14 20:20:00 - [5538] Originally by: Swoopdeath What SOME people don't understand is...whining is whining no matter if you're right or wrong. So, if you are so opposed to whining, why are you whining about "our" whining? Do you have a right that we don't have?
Corbin Swift Minmatar WD-40	Posted - 2008.11.14 20:31:00 - [5539] Ok, I'm going to try a little thought experiment by exaggerating or amplifying the skill-completion nerf. A month ago CCP took one step in this direction. Now I'd like to ask a question to the players reading this who support the move. Just suppose that in the future CCP were to start reversing skill training on inactive accounts, that is subtracting skill points from accounts that are inactive. So if you need to unsub for a couple of months for whatever reason, when you come back you are a couple of months behind where you left. This is a couple of steps further in the direction they have taken. By the flawed logic behind the current "bugfix" this should net them even more cash because people will be afraid to let the account lapse even if they are unable to log on for skill changes. The issue of tempting players to come back to Eve would become a non-issue because people would never leave, right? When you fly in a fleet with friends, and you lose out on a few months training, it puts you in a similar situation to subtracting SP while inactive. At a guestimate, it is approximately 30%-40% as painful as my hypothetical extreme case, but it's painful nonetheless. I'm not interested in arguing about this any longer, I've heard both sides of the current discussion and I know where I stand. But I'm curious if there are any readers who think that negative SP on inactive accounts would be a good change. If so, I'd really like to hear your reasoning. Please reply promptly as I have less than 2 days left on this account. thanks, Corbin ps, It's a hypothetical question/thought experiment so please spare me the posts saying that it would never happen.
Tasty Bit Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2008.11.14 22:25:00 - [5540] Edited by: Tasty Bit on 14/11/2008 22:29:03 Originally by: Corbin Swift Ok, I'm going to try a little thought experiment by exaggerating or amplifying the skill-completion nerf. A month ago CCP took one step in this direction. Now I'd like to ask a question to the players reading this who support the move. Just suppose that in the future CCP were to start reversing skill training on inactive accounts, that is subtracting skill points from accounts that are inactive. So if you need to unsub for a couple of months for whatever reason, when you come back you are a couple of months behind where you left. This is a couple of steps further in the direction they have taken. By the flawed logic behind the current "bugfix" this should net them even more cash because people will be afraid to let the account lapse even if they are unable to log on for skill changes. The issue of tempting players to come back to Eve would become a non-issue because people would never leave, right? When you fly in a fleet with friends, and you lose out on a few months training, it puts you in a similar situation to subtracting SP while inactive. At a guestimate, it is approximately 30%-40% as painful as my hypothetical extreme case, but it's painful nonetheless. I'm not interested in arguing about this any longer, I've heard both sides of the current discussion and I know where I stand. But I'm curious if there are any readers who think that negative SP on inactive accounts would be a good change. If so, I'd really like to hear your reasoning. Please reply promptly as I have less than 2 days left on this account. thanks, Corbin ps, It's a hypothetical question/thought experiment so please spare me the posts saying that it would never happen. Please, don't give the imbeciles-that-be any more brilliant ideas to adopt in the interests of making more cash. Or not, as the case would also be. Also, if it turns out to be a bad idea (ie revenue actually went down), I wonder if they'd reverse it. That'd be brilliant, on several levels. Then again, they could recoup some of the lost cash by firing the ********(s) who came up with the cunning plan in the first place.
Doctor Penguin Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.11.14 22:41:00 - [5541] This thread is STILL GOING? Sheesh. It's a game. It's not worth spending your time here mindlessly mashing out Why CCP is wrong: Part CXIV ________________________________________________
Tasty Bit Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2008.11.14 22:47:00 - [5542] Originally by: Doctor Penguin This thread is STILL GOING? Sheesh. It's a game. It's not worth spending your time here mindlessly mashing out Why CCP is wrong: Part CXIV I think it's more a case of killing time till Jumpgate's Beta starts. Eve's Beta has almost run its course now.
Freezehunter Gallente O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.14 23:33:00 - [5543] Originally by: Tasty Bit Originally by: Doctor Penguin This thread is STILL GOING? Sheesh. It's a game. It's not worth spending your time here mindlessly mashing out Why CCP is wrong: Part CXIV I think it's more a case of killing time till Jumpgate's Beta starts. Eve's Beta has almost run its course now. Jumpgate is a ****ing joke compared to Eve, just like WoW... ------------------------------------------------
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.11.15 01:41:00 - [5544] Originally by: Freezehunter Originally by: Tasty Bit Originally by: Doctor Penguin This thread is STILL GOING? Sheesh. It's a game. It's not worth spending your time here mindlessly mashing out Why CCP is wrong: Part CXIV I think it's more a case of killing time till Jumpgate's Beta starts. Eve's Beta has almost run its course now. Jumpgate is a **ing joke compared to Eve, just like WoW... eve was a **ing joke in the beta tbh certain things kept it floating thou
HowardStern	Posted - 2008.11.15 02:04:00 - [5545] Originally by: IR Scoutar Originally by: Freezehunter Originally by: Tasty Bit Originally by: Doctor Penguin This thread is STILL GOING? Sheesh. It's a game. It's not worth spending your time here mindlessly mashing out Why CCP is wrong: Part CXIV I think it's more a case of killing time till Jumpgate's Beta starts. Eve's Beta has almost run its course now. Jumpgate is a **ing joke compared to Eve, just like WoW... eve was a **ing joke in the beta tbh certain things kept it floating thou Is Eve out of beta yet?
HowardStern	Posted - 2008.11.15 04:25:00 - [5546] Originally by: Freezehunter Originally by: Tasty Bit Originally by: Doctor Penguin This thread is STILL GOING? Sheesh. It's a game. It's not worth spending your time here mindlessly mashing out Why CCP is wrong: Part CXIV I think it's more a case of killing time till Jumpgate's Beta starts. Eve's Beta has almost run its course now. Jumpgate is a ****ing joke compared to Eve, just like WoW... A suitable comparison. 1 game's not even in Beta yet, and the other's been in beta for 5+ years. Give them a chance, ffs.
Alassra Eventide Veldspar Industries	Posted - 2008.11.15 09:02:00 - [5547] About damned time you changed this.
Duskadantor	Posted - 2008.11.15 10:09:00 - [5548] I hoped for 5000, nice number (or was it 5050, or 5005?) Either way impressive, its now at 5500+ But still... I don't hold much hope for 6000 and it's getting that much harder to see any new angle from peoples opinions. Where's the hope on anything changing due to such a storming of such a nice varied collection of opinions? This will still be a nice read for all those folk who don't visit eve-o. There's allot of fluff and banter, but also some really well put points. If this is the largest thread of upset to ever grace the CCP forums, I may fail to see what good it serves. It will go beyond 6000 and eve will carry on as if it never existed. At least for a few more months anyhoo. Anyone up for 1010? "Yahooo-weeeeeeee"
shortattenionsp	Posted - 2008.11.15 11:51:00 - [5549] Honestly I think this decision will backfire and cost you far more money than you realise. Whoever made this decision truly does not understand eve's player base. I have been playing two years and currently have two active accounts. During that time I have stopped playing 2-3 times for lengthy periods of time, but have always come back again partly because I left a long skill training and its a nice bonus to come back with a better character than when you left. Undoubtedly I will stop playing again sometime in the future, and the chances of me coming back again will be drastically reduced because I will start exactly where I left off. I work in game development myself and understand how people in middle and upper management with real decision making power can be utterly clueless idiots who have somehow managed to wrangle themselves into such positions. All I would day to the CCP employees reading this is make sure you get hold of the resulting subscription data and shove it in their face and show them this thread and see how good their decision really was. It's the shameless PR crap that makes you look so bad though - telling us how this was an "unintended bug" you forgot to fix for five years when in reality it was a well known selling point for the game, mentioned even in your player guide. Why would you take the time to inform players of a useful "unintended bug" in your own game? Do you really think your playerbase is that stupid and fanatical they would go along with your attempted doublethink?
Bendax Wildwing Deep Space Exploration Squad	Posted - 2008.11.15 12:21:00 - [5550] As a long time eve player with only one acc and busy rl at times it was always nice to know there was a point in returning to eve due to 'ghost training' (Ridiculous term, I think). Most relevant aspects have already been mentioned or discussed at length, I just wanted to add my opinion that it definitely will backfire on CCP, as it already seems to have. It was one feature making eve unique and interesting for hardcore and average players alike. I once was of the impression it wasn't all for the money at CCP's. Unfortunatly, your recent decisions seem to have proven me wrong. I'm disappointed, CCP, and currently quite unsure whether I should continue to support this lack of interest in an obviously big part of your player base.

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