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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Promethian child Amarr VITOC	Posted - 2008.10.14 21:56:00 - [2731] Now buying chars 100 isk per piece
Ronin 0031	Posted - 2008.10.14 21:56:00 - [2732] Edited by: Ronin 0031 on 14/10/2008 22:25:08 SCAMMER...... oh wait this isn't jita ...or is it? its funny how right after the huge push on the "Power of Two" and then throw this in right after.... i call Bull S***!!! Quoted from the Player guide Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
Zinnn	Posted - 2008.10.14 21:56:00 - [2733] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Zinnn Perhaps you didn't read that the china server already got that fix a while back and CCP said it would not be implemented in Tranquility. Well here it is. Your logic = epic fail. No flame intended Where did CCP say it would never be implemented? Linkage or it didn't happen. Enough people have said so on this forum for it to be fact that they did indeed say it wouldn't happen. That is, unless CCP has deleted those posts.. I wouldn't doubt it if they did to be honest. I think this entire thread is just crowd control and trying to sway public opinion by people like catherine. Seriously people who are noobs should not ask for stuff they can search for on even independent websites, but I trust the like 20 people or so that have said it already.
Billy Merc Amarr ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.14 21:58:00 - [2734] Edited by: Billy Merc on 14/10/2008 21:59:26 So slashing ôpotentialö revenue is what qualifies as cost saving in Iceland eh.... You know at least when this was enabled...you knew that people had these alts and that they would return and reactivate these alts, be it in some cases sparaticly. But at least is was more money in the door eh. Now there are fewer and fewer reasons to own alts...in fact id say besides those of us in the community that are doing ok in these tough times, people will simply trim the fat, cut there lossÆs, un-sub there alts.....and in the end ure profits will suffer...but hey its ure business not mine so i donÆt really give three shades.
Cosne	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:00:00 - [2735] I disabled all of my 4(!) Accounts. Thats enough what you have done to the players. 1. Nerfing the Whole EVE, okay its annoying that you do this every 80 Days. 2. You did not Balanced 50% Of the Modules after many Years. (Okay, Maybe you do now a little balance, but for me it is a nerf) 3. The new Graphics are really nice, but how about the Rest? POS? Universe SKYBOX? Well there is nothing.... Astroids?... Nothing.... 4.Now you Removed the Ghost Training thats enough. I quit Playing eve. EVE Was my Hobby, any maybe your Business. But I want to like my Hobby and nothing else. If you destroy my Hobby, i will quit this. And the 5. Point... The Test Servers... I See 3-4 BugHunters/CCP's online at the Same time. And 2-3 Hours later there is no one Online and this for 16 Hours. Well You are the King CCP. The The Crowd is not Amused. Sorry for my not well English at this time, im really sick about this all.
ISIAM	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:01:00 - [2736] Originally by: Zinnn Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Zinnn Perhaps you didn't read that the china server already got that fix a while back and CCP said it would not be implemented in Tranquility. Well here it is. Your logic = epic fail. No flame intended Where did CCP say it would never be implemented? Linkage or it didn't happen. Enough people have said so on this forum for it to be fact that they did indeed say it wouldn't happen. That is, unless CCP has deleted those posts.. I wouldn't doubt it if they did to be honest. I think this entire thread is just crowd control and trying to sway public opinion by people like catherine. Seriously people who are noobs should not ask for stuff they can search for on even independent websites, but I trust the like 20 people or so that have said it already. Yes finally somebody gets it. that's exactly what is happening. Big Indeed. (..)
Jocho Caldari Warped Mining	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:01:00 - [2737] Originally by: Mallikan Epic lulz. First off, I'm in the military. That doesn't mean I should be the difference between game balance and inbalance. Two, why then are so many people say "OMG LEAVING" and then saying they're going to some other MMO that doesn't even offer time based training?? If you need to take a break from EVE, either keep paying for it, or stop training. You're not paying nor playing it at that time so it's only fair. Get over it? I'm sorry an internet spaceship game company appalled you. That must be rough for you. LOL.. Bye now, see you in "Generic MMO X." If your in the military then how are you for the change? Unless your a desk jockey (LOL) then it means your character gets serverly hampered due to real life commitments. And how does it imbalance the game?? All the hardcore pros keep stating this, but part of the disgust at CCP is that it clearly doesn't cause any imblance. Unless CCP left a known "bug" in the game for 5 years, even though it causes such a great 'imbalance'. Removing ghost training actually creates an imbalance. If I take a break from EvE, what is the incentive to come back? Battleship 5....crusier 5 etc...not any more. And lets be honest, EvE isn't exaclty a top notch game - its gameplay and graphics are very dated. And for $200+ a year, I think anyone can find a better game, I know I will. It's amazing how you comepletly overlook the fact that CCP have lied to you and your getting less for more money, and instead you hold a torch for them. How far will they have to go until you say "enoughs enough, that's just bulls**t"
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:04:00 - [2738] Originally by: Zinnn Perhaps you didn't read that the china server already got that fix a while back and CCP said it would not be implemented in Tranquility. Well here it is. Your logic = epic fail. No flame intended Originally by: Shar Tegral Where did CCP say it would never be implemented? Linkage or it didn't happen. Originally by: Zinnn Enough people have said so on this forum for it to be fact that they did indeed say it wouldn't happen. I'm sending you my medical bills. I laughed so hard at your statement I think I've got a hernia. No flame intended but there a some very simple ("very simple" counts as well) words to describe you if you actually believe rabble when they are rabbling. I can directly tell you for a fact that you will not find any such statement. Not because CCP is that good at covering up (because let's face it - they ain't) but because I've been here being a thorn in CCP's side wherever they fall short. Now, stop focusing on what they did and focus on the ineptness of how they did it. What they did was right but overdue. How they did it is the classic CCP screw up. 'Nuff said. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
10of10	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:06:00 - [2739] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Zinnn Perhaps you didn't read that the china server already got that fix a while back and CCP said it would not be implemented in Tranquility. Well here it is. Your logic = epic fail. No flame intended Originally by: Shar Tegral Where did CCP say it would never be implemented? Linkage or it didn't happen. Originally by: Zinnn Enough people have said so on this forum for it to be fact that they did indeed say it wouldn't happen. I'm sending you my medical bills. I laughed so hard at your statement I think I've got a hernia. No flame intended but there a some very simple ("very simple" counts as well) words to describe you if you actually believe rabble when they are rabbling. I can directly tell you for a fact that you will not find any such statement. Not because CCP is that good at covering up (because let's face it - they ain't) but because I've been here being a thorn in CCP's side wherever they fall short. Now, stop focusing on what they did and focus on the ineptness of how they did it. What they did was right but overdue. How they did it is the classic CCP screw up. 'Nuff said. CCP alt spotted.
Zatharyn Minmatar Ridiculously Serious Research	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:08:00 - [2740] CCP really did a poor job handling this. All changes aside, the way this issue was dealt with was slimy and sneaky.

Jocho Caldari Warped Mining	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:08:00 - [2741] Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: Zinnn OK so a LITTLE bugfix is not important, even though it is a fix (according to them) ... That makes no sense. Jesus dude, you ever play Eve? There are millions of little "bugs", flaws, imbalances and gaps that need fixing, or tweaking, or removing. As time (sometimes years) goes by they generally get fixed or changed. A five year bug...which was written into the tutorial page as well as CCP staff saying that Tranquility would keep it. Yes. That seems to be a bug. A bug which CCP wanted to keep. Uhuh. Do you even understand what a bug is? It's something that is fixed as soon as it can be or is noticed. And if a serious case of schizophrenia came across the CCP staff, then why did they change their story? This isn't a case of fixing a typo in a mission or response time of Concord. The issue with this so called "bug" is that it affects real life payments, AFTER the price has already increased, with very little to show for it.
Alex Salas BROTHERHOOD OF SPARTA Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:08:00 - [2742] Originally by: Shar Tegral Where did CCP say it would never be implemented? Linkage or it didn't happen.[/justify] http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=99 On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change. ___ EVE lies...rotating FTL!!! http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=99 On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranqu
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:08:00 - [2743] Originally by: 10of10 CCP alt spotted. Alt of a moron spotted. Ooops did I type that outloud? To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Shard Merchant Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:08:00 - [2744] Originally by: Catherine Frasier That's pretty simple. Until it was being exploited heavily enough (or until they noticed that it was being exploited heavily enough) to be a serious problem it was not worth the emoragequitfest that we're seeing here right now. Counts change, the game evolves, what was slightly annoying once becomes more important. Mate, this can't be compared to an exploit. First: An exploit is the circumvention of game mechanics for personal gain. This might include personal gain, but it isn't circumventing anything. There is nothing in EVE to suggest that character training should be linked to the status of your account. At most you can infer that you need an active account to change skills. Second: This is the equivalent of saying asteroids in asteroid belts are too close together, allowing ships to mine multiple rocks without moving. Its been around since the creation of the game. Sure, you can claim it was unintended because its not a feature CCP added after the game went live, but if you go back far enough, someone somewhere had to make a conscious decision that things should be this way. Third: Consider insta-jump bookmarks. They were a blatant circumvention of game mechanics for personal gain; ie, an exploit. Like this, it too became widespread among the playerbase. It was completely unintentional in the sense that: CCP never explicitly added as a feature and that it was never a part of the game from the start. Yet, they chose to completely legitimize it afterward. Ghost training isn't an exploit, period. Whether its unintentional or a bug is up for discussion, but entirely irrelevant. CCP have historically proven that clear exploits and metagaming can become legitimized as "emergent gameplay". This seems to imply that CCP at least consider whether something is good before deciding to change it. Whether this is a good gameplay mechanic or not is also up for discussion and debate, but then, why aren't focusing the priority changes from the top? - We have passive Research Point gain even if the account is inactive. - We also get the benefit of implants long after we lose them if we remember to set a long skill before getting podded. - We also have a situation where jump clones are not being used for their originally intended purpose, but to protect implants. Ghost training is not only the most ambiguous in regards to effect on gameplay, but its the only situation that has any financial relevance. The evidence that this has next to nothing to do with gameplay is overwhelming, but you support CCP's party line (given by news posts and dev blogs) by repeating the words exploit, unintentional and bug. You and others choose to look the other way because you can't stand the idea of CCP damaging the player experience for more money and little else. I salute your naivety Catherine Fraiser. o7
Shea Halley	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:09:00 - [2745] Well I would like to thank CCP for doing the honorable thing and reactivating the account site, that seemed quite shady. I have canceled my two accounts due the fact the Ghost Training mechanic is one thing that attracted me to the game. I understand it is their product and the decision to take it out of the game is their right. My right is to not pay for a product I feel is being altered without any prior notification or explanation. I am pretty aggrevated that I just signed up for the Power of Two only two weeks ago so there goes $70 dollars of my money I will not recoup nor have an desire to enjoy. And those of you that are saying "leave noobs, go back to WOW" and the such, you do understand for each person that leaves is less money for them to develop the game for you. I have only been here a year but can tell you that they are severly lacking in content now, so just imagine one patch a year. Food for thought before you villify those of us who have chosen to speak with our wallet, which may affect your gameplay.
EnslaverOfMinmatar Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:11:00 - [2746] Joo nao has onli 2 choycez: 1. gief stuffs to mi 2. tresh u're stuffs and beeomass u're keriktur chuuz waisly Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill tr
Zinnn	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:11:00 - [2747] Edited by: Zinnn on 14/10/2008 22:11:52 Originally by: ISIAM Originally by: Zinnn Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Zinnn Perhaps you didn't read that the china server already got that fix a while back and CCP said it would not be implemented in Tranquility. Well here it is. Your logic = epic fail. No flame intended Where did CCP say it would never be implemented? Linkage or it didn't happen. Enough people have said so on this forum for it to be fact that they did indeed say it wouldn't happen. That is, unless CCP has deleted those posts.. I wouldn't doubt it if they did to be honest. I think this entire thread is just crowd control and trying to sway public opinion by people like catherine. Seriously people who are noobs should not ask for stuff they can search for on even independent websites, but I trust the like 20 people or so that have said it already. Yes finally somebody gets it. that's exactly what is happening. Big Indeed. (..) Search independent websites then if you don't believe me. if 20 people got the impression that ccp was saying it, then come on. Why not update both servers at the same time? Seriously answer me that. If people believe that CCP just simply dragged their heels.... that's not like CCP for so-called "bugfixes"... For features, yes they drag their heels. Bugfixes, no. I'd appreciate next time people quoting my entire quote as opposed to just editing whatever you'd like to your liking. Thank you very much. EDIT: so yes, as people have said... I think we see a few CCP alts trying to play around on their own forum and change public opinion.
Soriana Ter'Ridar	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:13:00 - [2748] Removing ghost training actually creates an imbalance. If I take a break from EvE, what is the incentive to come back? Battleship 5....crusier 5 etc...not any more. And lets be honest, EvE isn't exaclty a top notch game - its gameplay and graphics are very dated. And for $200+ a year, I think anyone can find a better game, I know I will. It's amazing how you comepletly overlook the fact that CCP have lied to you and your getting less for more money, and instead you hold a torch for them. How far will they have to go until you say "enoughs enough, that's just bulls**t" I agree with you having started to play WAR which looks awesome, plays awesome, and is CHEAPER than eve because they gor rid of the 30/90day etcs. But this will imbalance the game only the rich will be able to keep their toons training constantly, in the end it will be only the rich be able to fly the decent ships. I know it may sound far fetched but with the recent economy/fuel crisis's adding up no one will have that extra few quid to spare to log on for 60days.
Wygg Minmatar Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:13:00 - [2749] Originally by: Alex Salas On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change. Word parsing says Tranquility "is not affected," not "will never be affected." Read the EULA section 6 article A. It says: Quote: CCP may, in its sole discretion, cease to provide any or all of the services offered in connection with EVE (including access to the System and any or all features or components of the Game)
Zinnn	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:14:00 - [2750] Edited by: Zinnn on 14/10/2008 22:16:55 Originally by: Alex Salas Originally by: Shar Tegral Where did CCP say it would never be implemented? Linkage or it didn't happen.[/justify] http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=99 On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change. THANK YOU for mentioning something about this. Very helpful. EDIT: The post above is invalid. This isn't a feature, it's a bug. So the EULA doesn't apply there. Thank you for playing /sarcasm

Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:14:00 - [2751] Are people really emo-rage-quitting because CCP called ghost skilling a bug instead of an unintended feature? You do realize that everything is an unintended feature if CCP decides it is and they can change their mind whenever they want, right? Also, emo-rage-quitting because CCP is trying to make money (SHOCKING!) is dumb. Regardless of how CCP is wording it, explain why you should be able to "level up" or do anything on an inactive account. -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
SkwisgaarSkwigelf C.R.M Productions	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:15:00 - [2752] Originally by: Shard Merchant Mate, this can't be compared to an exploit. First: An exploit is the circumvention of game mechanics for personal gain. This might include personal gain, but it isn't circumventing anything. There is nothing in EVE to suggest that character training should be linked to the status of your account. At most you can infer that you need an active account to change skills. Second: This is the equivalent of saying asteroids in asteroid belts are too close together, allowing ships to mine multiple rocks without moving. Its been around since the creation of the game. Sure, you can claim it was unintended because its not a feature CCP added after the game went live, but if you go back far enough, someone somewhere had to make a conscious decision that things should be this way. Third: Consider insta-jump bookmarks. They were a blatant circumvention of game mechanics for personal gain; ie, an exploit. Like this, it too became widespread among the playerbase. It was completely unintentional in the sense that: CCP never explicitly added as a feature and that it was never a part of the game from the start. Yet, they chose to completely legitimize it afterward. Ghost training isn't an exploit, period. Whether its unintentional or a bug is up for discussion, but entirely irrelevant. CCP have historically proven that clear exploits and metagaming can become legitimized as "emergent gameplay". This seems to imply that CCP at least consider whether something is good before deciding to change it. Whether this is a good gameplay mechanic or not is also up for discussion and debate, but then, why aren't focusing the priority changes from the top? - We have passive Research Point gain even if the account is inactive. - We also get the benefit of implants long after we lose them if we remember to set a long skill before getting podded. - We also have a situation where jump clones are not being used for their originally intended purpose, but to protect implants. Ghost training is not only the most ambiguous in regards to effect on gameplay, but its the only situation that has any financial relevance. The evidence that this has next to nothing to do with gameplay is overwhelming, but you support CCP's party line (given by news posts and dev blogs) by repeating the words exploit, unintentional and bug. You and others choose to look the other way because you can't stand the idea of CCP damaging the player experience for more money and little else. I salute your naivety Catherine Fraiser. o7 :trophy:
Erimisha Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:16:00 - [2753] Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: FalconBayerskt Have CCP responded yet?? (dont have the time to check 80+ pages) Responded to what? The dev blog linked in the OP covers it all pretty well, what else is there to say? There have been thousands of posts (this thread alone is probably close to 2800 posts) by probably 1000+ actual different people in less than 24 hours on the matter. First in multiple locked posts and now in an never before seen act of a "disappearing post" that CCP can't seem to restore to the Information portal (how convenient that no one can easily see this 90 page (and counting) threadnaught on the matter). Yes, there is a link in ANOTHER locked thread pointing to here. Can you tell by that link how many pages of disagreement to this change there is? How convenient is it that the only link here is in a locked post that people will likely skip over since it is locked like the other 2 official posts and at least half a dozen multi-page protests? Surely CCP might want to say something about the response?
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:17:00 - [2754] Originally by: Alex Salas Linkage Originally by: Old Patch Notes On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change. Forgive me, I prettied it up for you out of sheer gratitude. Thank you for proving my point. Even the patch notes do not say this change would never be implemented. Just that it was not at that time. Of course if you are looking for the "one person" who complained about this matter: Linkage. Trust me, I care little about your tears over the matter. Very little at all. However I am very surprised that so many are disappointed in the PR fiasco by CCP. Guess yall ain't been here long enough to know that CCP does not handle dishing out bad news well. But in fairness to CCP, this community can be a bunch of whining little momma boys (& girls) at the best of times. This ain't the best of times though. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Paradise Dreamer	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:18:00 - [2755] Originally by: Soriana Ter'Ridar I agree with you having started to play WAR which looks awesome, plays awesome, and is CHEAPER than eve because they gor rid of the 30/90day etcs. But this will imbalance the game only the rich will be able to keep their toons training constantly, in the end it will be only the rich be able to fly the decent ships. I know it may sound far fetched but with the recent economy/fuel crisis's adding up no one will have that extra few quid to spare to log on for 60days. That's no problem. If there will be only the richest ones - CCP will pull up the prices for gtc... affordable for those players. Economics. (and less laggy indeed)
ISIAM	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:18:00 - [2756] Okey, so I've been here all day and listened to most of all sides of this argument, What I want to know now is; Those of us that are obviously against this and/or how it was handled. What constructive thing are we going to do ? ; And do you think there is any chance we will be heard? Yours still sadly, "ISIAM"
Bistot Kid The First Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:19:00 - [2757] Originally by: Zinnn bistot kid, I"m not using that feature and I"m still upset. Your logic is flawed. On the off chance you see this in amongst a million pages ... Why? Why do you care? I've used the feature for two weeks once, and I barely care. It was a bonus we once had and now we don't any more. We'll get over it. -------------------- What? Me Worry? --------------------
Ayrion Centare Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:19:00 - [2758] I like to stay in the background but I think it is important for those of us who disagree to let CCP know. Ghost Training is specifically one of the features that attracted me to EVE. I never got into any other MMOs because I have a life and I simply can't dedicate the time necessary to grind up a powerful end-game character. And if I couldn't do that, it seemed like waste of time and money to even get started. So I didn't. When I first learn about EVE and it's skill training model and the ability to ghost train I thought it was genius. Finally an MMO that doesn't punish me for having a life. I could take extended stretches of time outside the game but still continue to level my character towards end game. Ghost training was a huge selling point for me. I'd like to have some empathy for CCP especially with current market condition, but their treatment of the matter has been despicable. The outright lie that ghost training was an unintended bug instead of a feature clearly written in your own player manual is so rude and disrespectful it's insulting. If ghost training took such a financial toll and was an actual bug you could have protected yourself easily by stating in your player manual that ghost training is an unintended feature caused by a bug and it will be removed. Even if it took you 5 years to remove it *nobody* could make a fuss because it was clearly stated. Right now you guys at CCP are not in the best position. It either looks like: There was a bug that existed in your skill training system for 5 years that you actually called a feature in your own player manual which makes you look stupid and incompetent. or Or this is an attempt to squeeze your customers for extra subs by lying and disabling a well known feature that made your MMO distinct from other MMOs when it came to character advancement which makes you look desperate and pathetic. This is a deal breaker for me.
supr3m3justic3 Caldari Hakata Group	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:20:00 - [2759] Originally by: Zinnn Originally by: Catherine Frasier Originally by: Creepin Originally by: Catherine Frasier No. It was an unintended feature which was, in effect, a bug. Documenting it doesn't change that. Oh, cmon, the bug that was unfixable for bloody five years and coincidentally got fixed at this exact moment, mwahaha Coincidence takes two things. What's the other thing happening "at this exact moment" that makes it a conspiracy? And, to be clear, nobody said it was "unfixable". It was merely not fixed until now. I'm saying this again cause I recieved no reply the last time. You know I can put merely in front of anything to make it sound minimizing. I merely cut a person in half. I merely robbed a bank. So what if it's MERELY not fixed until now. The question YOU have to ask yourself is WHY did they wait until NOW to fix it instead of fixing it when they had the technology YEARS AGO?? REPLY TO ME CATHERINE, you obviously have nothing better to do than to stick up for CCP, so answer. why o why.......wait till now.... __________________________________________________ http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=896318&page=91
Bistot Kid The First Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2008.10.14 22:22:00 - [2760] Originally by: Rufus Britton if I want to stay on par skillswise with everyone else, if I don't I will fall behind. You're gaining or falling behind all the time, unless someone has cloned us all with the same implants, learning skills and starting stats. There's two people out of hundreds of thousands in the game who have a unique position. One has the most SP. One has the least. Everyone else is not special and sits somewhere in between. Don't treat it like a race and you won't get stressed out! -------------------- What? Me Worry? --------------------



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