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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Cailais
Amarr VITOC
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Posted - 2008.10.16 18:12:00 -
[151]
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate While you're chilling in here with us regular forumites Explorer, can you answer my question about what graphics updates are going to be included with the patch? Be as vague as gives you sufficient wiggle room against further emorage
Sorry, I have to wait for Marketing to announce the features before I can discuss them. See my reply in the offical thread.
tbh the marketing department are the last people around CCP anyone should be paying any attention to.
C.
Originally by: Tarminic Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.
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DaDutchDude
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.10.16 18:31:00 -
[152]
Edited by: DaDutchDude on 16/10/2008 18:31:10
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
[...]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Weapon Grouping
One button to fire all weapons grouped together, one button to reload them, one button to change ammunition type.
But....
For turret groups of the same type calculations could be run for one turret and multiplied by the number of turrets in the group. Resulting in 6-7 times less load in many cases. When loading ammo only a single transaction is made. The group grabs X ammo for it's Y turrets, all of whom will have fired the same number of shots, meaning only one transaction takes place.
[...]
It seems they liked your idea after all.
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ShardowRhino
Caldari Legion 0f The Damned
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Posted - 2008.10.16 18:51:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Seth Ruin Medals, certificates, and autopilot "avoid" routes all constitute an expansion? I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, just... Expansion? Content patch, sure. But if this were other MMOs and someone tried charging for that I'd laugh.
Gotta agree with you there. upgrade,content patch, sure. Theres just not enough mentioned to suggest that its a full blown expansion. FW i would consider an expansion but not 100% but sounds closer then the announced patch.
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Tae'Lin Hynd
Simply Planned
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Posted - 2008.10.16 19:13:00 -
[154]
Gotta question,
How many other announcements have had the emphasis on FREE UPGRADE?
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CCP Explorer
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Posted - 2008.10.16 19:27:00 -
[155]
Edited by: CCP Explorer on 16/10/2008 19:30:16
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Source
Originally by: CCP Wrangler CCP said that this issue has been brought up in the past, but has been rejected due to performance reasons. Moving items around causes a heavy load on the servers and making guns easier to reload might encourage players to do it even more frequently. There are concerns that during large fleet battles, all ammunition will be changed at the call of a fleet commander, which would cause an enormous spike on the servers.
And now:
Originally by: CCP Explorer Edited by: CCP Explorer on 16/10/2008 00:21:38
Originally by: Shard Merchant - Weapon linking is a feature? Really, a whole new feature with gameplay and stuff? Its a goddamned UI tweak.
Weapon Grouping is a significant server optimisation.
I've already answered this here. You're confusing Weapon Grouping with previous proposals for another feature "Reload all with...". That feature had been brought up in the past and rejected for performance reasons.
You're also quoting "conveniently" and skipping the part of the the reply I gave to the CSM: "However due to the popularity of this feature, CCP will confer with the server/database teams to see if this feature can be implemented and how it would affect performance."
The result was Weapon Grouping. Not "Reload all with..." since we are not allowing it for unlinked weapons for performance reasons.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games |
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CCP Explorer
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Posted - 2008.10.16 19:34:00 -
[156]
Edited by: CCP Explorer on 16/10/2008 19:34:44
Originally by: clone 1 With Weapon Grouping, will you effectively be turning your 7/8 weapons into one big weapon server side, and would calculations of that weapon be performed only once?
With 7 guns there is a slight randomness to wrecking, and variations of movement v tracking allowing that 1 in a 1000 shot. Will those calculations be less / damage less because you are only working with one gun?
The overall damage distribution will be the same as if you were using N weapons but all the calculations will be done in 1 call instead of N calls, thus reducing server load.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games |
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CCP Explorer
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Posted - 2008.10.16 19:43:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Daan Sai
Originally by: CCP Explorer Sorry, I have to wait for Marketing to announce the features before I can discuss them.
This is very very sad , what has CCP done - muzzling devs, and putting an ignorant clumsy marketing/PR division in charge!?!
This is simply a reasonable division of responsibilities. I'm responsible for EVE's development along with EVE's Lead Game Designer, EVE's Technical Director and EVE's Quality Assurance Manager and a large team of excellent devs.
Marketing doesn't write code and I don't announce features
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games |
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DaDutchDude
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.10.16 19:52:00 -
[158]
Edited by: DaDutchDude on 16/10/2008 19:52:06
Originally by: CCP Explorer
[...] Marketing doesn't write code and I don't announce features
And knowing marketing types, I'm glad they don't get anywhere near code ... and I'm pretty sure they're happy you techies don't get to announce stuff
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Ishina Fel
Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.10.16 20:13:00 -
[159]
Doesn't marketing have that cool guy, what's-his-name... Magnus Bergsson? ...who always has some of the best lines of CCP personel appearing on EVE-TV?
Send him over here, make him announce some features!
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Daelin Blackleaf
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Posted - 2008.10.16 20:14:00 -
[160]
Originally by: CCP Explorer I've already answered this here. You're confusing Weapon Grouping with previous proposals for another feature "Reload all with...". That feature had been brought up in the past and rejected for performance reasons.
You're also quoting "conveniently" and skipping the part of the the reply I gave to the CSM: "However due to the popularity of this feature, CCP will confer with the server/database teams to see if this feature can be implemented and how it would affect performance."
I think your getting the wrong end of the stick. I'm in no way saying that you said it was impossible. I was pointing out that we were told it would be difficult to implement without producing a lot of lag, and I put forward a solution where it could be done and reduce lag, you then implemented the feature in a similar manner and are proudly announcing that it does indeed reduce lag.
I'm not claiming you stole my idea, but it would be pretty funny if the solution had to be come up with independently because no one bothered reading the suggestions in that thread.
Originally by: CCP Explorer The result was Weapon Grouping. Not "Reload all with..." since we are not allowing it for unlinked weapons for performance reasons.
Now who quoted selectively. That or you didn't read the post properly which I can understand your busy guys. Unlinked weapons and re-load all didn't even come into the suggestion on weapon grouping (note the bolded title below which you missed last time round) which was:
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Weapon Grouping
One button to fire all weapons grouped together, one button to reload them, one button to change ammunition type.
But....
For turret groups of the same type calculations could be run for one turret and multiplied by the number of turrets in the group. Resulting in 6-7 times less load in many cases. When loading ammo only a single transaction is made. The group grabs X ammo for it's Y turrets, all of whom will have fired the same number of shots, meaning only one transaction takes place.
I'll admit this doesn't cover the issue of 8x wreckings/misses which I didn't consider in the few moments consideration I gave the idea, but either the solution was based on that post or I came up with a similar solution to the one you guys did as soon as I was made aware of the problem. So please, allow me my small moment of pride without urinating on my parade and generally being mean.
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CCP Explorer
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Posted - 2008.10.16 20:27:00 -
[161]
Edited by: CCP Explorer on 16/10/2008 20:28:29
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf I'm not claiming you stole my idea, but it would be pretty funny if the solution had to be come up with independently because no one bothered reading the suggestions in that thread.
I don't know how the devs that suggested Weapon Grouping came up with that design. Either they listened to you, our customer, or you happened to independently come up with a similar idea. Either way, you're a smart guy
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games |
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Daelin Blackleaf
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Posted - 2008.10.16 20:32:00 -
[162]
Much better, I shall now have my moment of smug gittery. No wait... I already am.
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Gort
Storm Guard Elite
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Posted - 2008.10.16 20:33:00 -
[163]
/me runs around with a butterfly net, hunting down wild ideas.... -- When in doubt, empty the magazine. |
Aluura Sky
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Posted - 2008.10.16 20:44:00 -
[164]
Subscription successfully canceled!
my 2c
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.10.16 20:49:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Emma Murphy is it just me or is there no release date?
I propose December 14th be the release date. The birthday of Quantum Mechanics? It would only be fitting.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.10.16 20:58:00 -
[166]
Edited by: Bagehi on 16/10/2008 21:00:38
Originally by: Alerion Marketing: OMG we have a PR disaster with the ghost training issue! Announce something quick! Tell them about the new expansion!
Development: But we don't what's going to be in it yet!
Marketing: We'll make something up! Press release going out!
PR Disaster?
Accounting: Umm... we have ebayers who are trying to trim costs on the characters they are selling, thus violating the terms of the game contract. SOMEONE is doing a really poor job of catching these people. They are ghost training to reduce their costs. Perhaps, since we don't really want them doing this to begin with, and we are having trouble catching them, we should make them pay for the months of training everyone else paid for?
Idiot-Who-Let-That-One-Slip: Oh... ooops? I suppose that would make sense.
Marketing: Sounds like it is about time for another expansion!
I can say idiot, but not retar*?
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2008.10.16 21:02:00 -
[167]
Originally by: CCP Explorer This is simply a reasonable division of responsibilities. . . . Marketing doesn't write code and I don't announce features
While normally I would agree, proper division of responsibility in a growing company is a good thing... but to put it bluntly, your marketing department has SERIOUS issues in dealing with PR. Last game company I worked at, they would have been fired by now.
It feels like they spend too much time thinking about the glamourous 'we are a big company' marketing issues like special offers, TV spots, interviews, and other high profile stuff that is 'fun' and 'professional' but handle grass roots issues poorly.
My company actually went through such a period and after loosing 70% of our market share, well, fired marketing, taught humility to the new group (and those who stayed) and did better. But it took a lot of retraining to focus on the grass roots customer base rather then the high profile sexy stuff that marketers tend to dream of.
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Aeo IV
Amarr Xomic OmniCorporation
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Posted - 2008.10.16 21:27:00 -
[168]
I hope the Orca isn't just another mining ship/freighter, I'm sort of hoping for a factory ship ^.^
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Odhinn Vinlandii
Shadows of the Dead Elitist Cowards
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Posted - 2008.10.16 21:44:00 -
[169]
Edited by: Odhinn Vinlandii on 16/10/2008 21:47:58
Originally by: CCP Explorer Sorry, I have to wait for Marketing to announce the features before I can discuss them.
There's your problem.
Your marketing team is turning the community against the devs.
How about you cut out the drama-pimps and deal with us directly, plainly, and honestly.
cheers.
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Jonak
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.16 22:57:00 -
[170]
And I was planning to take a break from Eve. The next few weeks of info about the new expansion will determine that now.
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Anig Browl
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.17 00:40:00 -
[171]
Edited by: Anig Browl on 17/10/2008 00:41:27
Originally by: Nekopyat
While normally I would agree, proper division of responsibility in a growing company is a good thing... but to put it bluntly, your marketing department has SERIOUS issues in dealing with PR. Last game company I worked at, they would have been fired by now.
I'll second that. I've worked at several technology start-ups and small companies. Yes, it's important to coordinate these things so the left hand knows what the right hand is doing and so on; but existing customers NEVER like being treated like newbies.
Example 1: I support the end of ghost training. Never used it, never cared, goes against the spirit of gaming for me personally. But if you'd given people 2 months or even 2 weeks notice instead of 2 days, you'd saved a lot of time and money.
Example 2: changes in the new expansion. I like hauling, I love my industrial. But all I know is that it's going to change - I have no idea how or in what direction...so I'm torn between switching my plans and trying to train skills that seem relevant so as to get a little bit of a head start...or NOT training any industrial-type skills, because maybe the skill requirements will go down and I'll have wasted time training a skill I don't really need.
Take transport ships. I want one, I can train the transport ships skill right now. But I have to train Caldari Industrial V first to actually fly any transport ship. If transport ships get much better, I should definitely do so. But if the new requirement is xxxxxx Industrial IV and Transport Ships 1, that would be a waste of about 10 days...maybe I should just keep flying my T1 industrial with a warp stab in the low slot.
Or maybe racial industrial ships will be abolished, and it'll be like destroyers or indeed Transport Ships - train the frigate, fly the industrial! Yeah!! I'll train Gallente frigate so I can finally fly those cool Iterons! Hell, maybe I'll do that anyway...but wait, what if the Iteron gets nerfed because everyone agrees it's the best by far? Damn!
Look, I love Eve, I'm not into forum drama, I know you can never please everyone. But there's a strong feeling that the marketing people don't actually play much and are unable to identify with the regular players. Please take a look at how open source projects like Gnome set their upgrade dates to a regular period, and say specifically what the goals of each release are.
Basically I think your marketing people need to be slapped around a little and understand that announcing major changes at short or no notice is No Good; and that announcing changes without a dev blog explaining them in detail is also No Good.
Anticipation depends on planning. Changes you can plan for offer something to look forward to. Changes you can't plan for just increase uncertainty, and nobody likes uncertainty. t seems like 10-20% of forum posts consist of 'WTF is going on? I'm confused and I hate it'. This is no way to build customer loyalty.
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Daan Sai
Polytrope
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Posted - 2008.10.17 02:25:00 -
[172]
Originally by: CCP Explorer This is simply a reasonable division of responsibilities. I'm responsible for EVE's development along with EVE's http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=author&p=CCP%20Hammer" Lead Game Designer[/url], EVE's Technical Director and EVE's Quality Assurance Manager and a large team of excellent devs.
Marketing doesn't write code and I don't announce features
OK, fair call, and I'd agree that in an ideal situation that that is the best way to move forward and allow CCP to grow beyond the small group in a back room stage. I love the technical work, and am good with the intentions of the game designers/art folks, the writers are cooool. But there seems to be an influx on staff who are quite *disconnected* from the game and the history/context of the game (ie the recent 0m turret tracking 'bug/feature').
There has been a near complete loss of confidence in the announcement section (Marketing) compounded by several steps that shows that these people may mean well, but have no unerstanding - or an inability to communicate that understanding. 48 hours notice to change a 5 year arrangement designed to retain players is *crazy*.
I simply don't trust the press release at all because parts of it are laughable to those who have experience, and I am hoping that some actual information can be obtained from the parts of CCP that still know what they are talking about. New, necessary, division of responsibilities in CCP are making this awkward situation harder than it needs to be.
I love Eve, and even parts of CCP, but the last year has had a couple of incidents that have shaken that a bit.
Hoping the expansion will be substantial after all.
Daan
PS, the oficial expansion name sux
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SSgt Sniper
Gallente MAIDS
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Posted - 2008.10.17 04:04:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: CCP Explorer Sorry, I have to wait for Marketing to announce the features before I can discuss them. See my reply in the offical thread.
Aww. Denied.
I'll see if I can dig up more questions
I have to say it, because I've seen to many people say it and I just can't resist anymore....
DUDE, YOUR FACE!!!
That is all. ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.Poor PR in progress!
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SuckySycky5dolla
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Posted - 2008.10.17 12:32:00 -
[174]
Edited by: SuckySycky5dolla on 17/10/2008 12:32:52 How can this be considered an expansion? There are very little new content to be called as such. I think CCP has self-imposed to release 2 expansions per year rule but this isn't one. This sounds more like back-end stability change with a small sprinkle of gimmicks. Either way, less lag is always welcome. I'm not happy that is wasn't Ambulation which is the actual "expansion"
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.10.17 12:49:00 -
[175]
He got it in one This ISN't an expansion no matter what CCP wants us to think. This is just the trinity patch with a few other things that needed to be added.
# Weapon linking to make your onslaught easier (about time should have been put in ages ago even though it requires very little real coding)
# Continuations of the massive Trinity graphics update (Well this should have been released when trinity was released not a year after (but its still good to hear however shouldn't be called an expansion trinity was an expansion this is just fixes to that expansion :D)
# Changes to autopilot routes and avoidance techniques (So another thing that should have been sorted years ago well done CPP)
So to put it simply this is being called an expansion just to be called an expansion it adds nothing to the game (sorry but anyone who calls this an industrial expansion is an idiot). Yes wow we get a new ship oh wait no we don't they just changed a couple of stats on an existing ship. Also whoever thought medals were a great idea was retarted. Medals = Fail, Schematics = semi fail(no real use for it as most ppl ask for ur limited key anyway (which gives them alot more information than a stupid schematic will give u). E.g awesome this guy can use elite gunnery oh wait but he can't use t2 heavy guns oh wait what a waste of time that was.
However if CCP said to use that STACKLESSIO was an expansion i would have been more than happy it's been the best update to the gamer peroid nothing can beat the fact that you can actually go into jita now (i am still finding it wierd now hell was in there with 1000 ppl and was still able to trade)
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Dr Sheepbringer
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Posted - 2008.10.17 13:34:00 -
[176]
Just as a sidenote concerning the expansions and PR. Trinity TRAILER told that Mac users would also get premium graphics. Now after that...we have one expansion already and a another one coming and thus no premium client for mac users. Either the PR team was ****ing into the wind and thought it would me a nice marketing gimmick. Guess what? It was. It was even on Apple's website for gods sake. Also it was posted on Eve's on website as a marvellous thing.
PR is going all "hooray Mac users, we love you too!" and in reality...
From my experience in marketing...I would either be fired or in serious damage control. Here it seems neither of those situations is happening.
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.10.17 13:40:00 -
[177]
Yea gotta love PR for raging about everything
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demon flir
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Posted - 2008.10.17 18:47:00 -
[178]
Originally by: CCP Explorer Edited by: CCP Explorer on 16/10/2008 19:34:44
Originally by: clone 1 With Weapon Grouping, will you effectively be turning your 7/8 weapons into one big weapon server side, and would calculations of that weapon be performed only once?
With 7 guns there is a slight randomness to wrecking, and variations of movement v tracking allowing that 1 in a 1000 shot. Will those calculations be less / damage less because you are only working with one gun?
The overall damage distribution will be the same as if you were using N weapons but all the calculations will be done in 1 call instead of N calls, thus reducing server load.
does this mean if the server calculates a wrecking hit. all N guns will do a wrecking hit? this would vaporize ships in some cases.
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.10.17 18:58:00 -
[179]
Originally by: demon flir
Originally by: CCP Explorer Edited by: CCP Explorer on 16/10/2008 19:34:44
Originally by: clone 1 With Weapon Grouping, will you effectively be turning your 7/8 weapons into one big weapon server side, and would calculations of that weapon be performed only once?
With 7 guns there is a slight randomness to wrecking, and variations of movement v tracking allowing that 1 in a 1000 shot. Will those calculations be less / damage less because you are only working with one gun?
The overall damage distribution will be the same as if you were using N weapons but all the calculations will be done in 1 call instead of N calls, thus reducing server load.
does this mean if the server calculates a wrecking hit. all N guns will do a wrecking hit? this would vaporize ships in some cases.
Your guns damage are still being calculataed independently so you will still get the normal range of hit types. Where the server load optimization comes in is that instead of sending the server a seperate call for each weapon as you press an f key it only sends one call to calculate all linked weapons. Add up all the guns in a fleet and you will quickly see how this would vastly reduce fleet fight loads on the node. Good stuff tbh.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.10.17 19:22:00 -
[180]
Edited by: Bagehi on 17/10/2008 19:22:44
Originally by: demon flir
Originally by: CCP Explorer Edited by: CCP Explorer on 16/10/2008 19:34:44
Originally by: clone 1 With Weapon Grouping, will you effectively be turning your 7/8 weapons into one big weapon server side, and would calculations of that weapon be performed only once?
With 7 guns there is a slight randomness to wrecking, and variations of movement v tracking allowing that 1 in a 1000 shot. Will those calculations be less / damage less because you are only working with one gun?
The overall damage distribution will be the same as if you were using N weapons but all the calculations will be done in 1 call instead of N calls, thus reducing server load.
does this mean if the server calculates a wrecking hit. all N guns will do a wrecking hit? this would vaporize ships in some cases.
Nevermind, already answered.
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