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The power of -1 X 20,000?

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Mire Stoude Cash Money Brothers Elitist Cowards	Posted - 2008.10.15 23:35:00 - [31] Originally by: Mordrake Step 1: I will be gone for 6 to 8 months Step 2: Cancel TV, all extra non-critical services which I will not use while away from home (EVE Online) Step 2: Ensure will and all paperwork up to date, give power of attorney to relative Step 4: Don't get killed Step 5: On reactivation enjoy a brand new Level 5 skill Comprende Amigo? Hate to be critical of your steps... but I think you missed the all important "PROFIT!!!!" step.
Mordrake Orbital Anvil Technologies	Posted - 2008.10.15 23:37:00 - [32] Originally by: TYCONDEROGA Originally by: Gonada hey OP, i dont think yuo streamlined enough. quit allready you cheapskate whiner. getting something for free has changed , live with it. /thread WOOOOHOOOOOO L33T thread OWNAGE!!! Is is just me, or can you almost make out the drool running down the chin and lazy eye right through the interweb? "Arte et Marte"
Del Narveux Dukes of Hazard	Posted - 2008.10.15 23:40:00 - [33] Obviously theyll lose a lot of accounts, but then again since the whole point is said accounts only have sporadic subscription it probably wont translate into very much money/player-hours. _________________ [IMAGE REMOVED] -- aka Cpt Bogus -- Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Dmian Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.10.15 23:41:00 - [34] Originally by: Mordrake But I see the reasoning behind the move CCP has made, I just do not agree with it due to my personal choices in this incarnation. Well, yours is a very particular case, and undestandable, too. I see you're not doing it to speculate, but because of your situation it make sense to ghost train, and I'm sorry, for that. What can I say? The fact that a lot of people started abusing this mechanic ruined the thing for people who needed it, like you. Again, take care and return home safe. ---- Eve Alpha - The font of Eve - Get it here
Mordrake Orbital Anvil Technologies	Posted - 2008.10.15 23:51:00 - [35] Originally by: Dmian Originally by: Mordrake But I see the reasoning behind the move CCP has made, I just do not agree with it due to my personal choices in this incarnation. Well, yours is a very particular case, and undestandable, too. I see you're not doing it to speculate, but because of your situation it make sense to ghost train, and I'm sorry, for that. What can I say? The fact that a lot of people started abusing this mechanic ruined the thing for people who needed it, like you. Again, take care and return home safe. Believe me I always try my hardest to accomplish step 4, as do all, irregardless of country belief or motivation. As to my situation, this is but one of many valid reasons to keep said feature, I did not do this streamlining as a snap decision. I have read many other situations in the 120+ ghost thread about other people and how it will effect them. Will CCP get rid of the abusers? Yes Is CCP throwing out the baby with the bath water? Yet to be determined. "Arte et Marte"
Minsc Gallente A.W.M Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.10.16 00:10:00 - [36] CCP has been asked about ghost training in dev chats before and there answer was always the same. It was not an intended feature but they didn't plan on changing it YET. There was always the possibility that they would close the loophole regardless of whether or not the playerbase had deemed it important to the game or not. The simple fact of the matter is that a large portion of the playerbase had started to exploit the loophole and they couldn't ignore it anymore. The most obvious scenario is that it is the isk sellers who realized they could make tons of cash selling cap-capable characters for real $$ were ghost-training characters up as quick as possible to sell. The problem with this loophole is that they can't selectively stop it, it's an all or nothing situation so while some people may have had a semi-legit reason to do it the loophole still has to be closed for everyone for it to be fair. Originally by: Sharkbait please for the love of god read the dam stickies
ISpam OHHAYGUYS	Posted - 2008.10.16 00:13:00 - [37] Originally by: Dmian Originally by: ISpam Getting something for free isnt what its about What? You don't make mistakes? A company can't change their minds about a mistake that probable is embarrasing for them? Pffff! Grow up. There would be no problem if CCP had not flat out lied about it being a bug not a feature. If they had stated they are removing it simply to increase revenue there would be no problem. I have no respect or faith in a company that would do that to its customers. I am sure many others feel the same way.
Pesky LaRue Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.16 00:20:00 - [38] Originally by: Mordrake So CCP has a good grasp of how many accounts they have lost due to recent changes, and I will bet you the numbers are updated hourly for a select few staff members. honestly, i believe you are drastically overestimating the effect this will have. a few people will definitely quit in an emo-rage but the majority of players are like kids, they want to complain until someone listens and makes things alright but in reality, they're not going to quit playing the game they love. sure, accounts will be lost over this but accounts are lost EVERY TIME CCP makes a change and it's just the cost of doing business. not sure if you were playing at the time but if the number of "OH MY GOD I'M QUITTING IF THEY PUT IN WARP TO ZERO" threats were true at that time, the servers would have been down to me and my alts fighting with Chribba for veldspar rights. ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++
Stormwind Bloodfeather Minmatar Sogdian Traders Inc	Posted - 2008.10.16 00:21:00 - [39] Originally by: Pesky LaRue the servers would have been down to me and my alts fighting with Chribba for veldspar rights. Veldnaught for the win /thread In EVE, your only friend is your ship and it's weapons. All others are the enemy!
Mordrake Orbital Anvil Technologies	Posted - 2008.10.16 00:22:00 - [40] Originally by: Minsc CCP has been asked about ghost training in dev chats before and there answer was always the same. It was not an intended feature but they didn't plan on changing it YET. There was always the possibility that they would close the loophole regardless of whether or not the playerbase had deemed it important to the game or not. The simple fact of the matter is that a large portion of the playerbase had started to exploit the loophole and they couldn't ignore it anymore. The most obvious scenario is that it is the isk sellers who realized they could make tons of cash selling cap-capable characters for real $$ were ghost-training characters up as quick as possible to sell. The problem with this loophole is that they can't selectively stop it, it's an all or nothing situation so while some people may have had a semi-legit reason to do it the loophole still has to be closed for everyone for it to be fair. Ok so we all "Bite The Bullet" (gallows humor;) How about CCP make some other changes to allow for people in similar situations to me for an option: One Idea would be to have some leniency on account sharing. I have a select few fellow players who I trust with my Life on many occasions, I would not be in the slightest worried about my accounts or assets being subverted if I was to leave it up to them to continue training my Active accounts. Alternatively the much demanded skill quiche. Also an easy way to avoid this rage after the seeming heavy handedness with the loyal fan base. Either of these 2 options could have easily endeared CCP in the eyes of the players rather than having the players rake them over the coals. "Arte et Marte"

Little Matt Caldari New Fnord Industries Black Scope Project	Posted - 2008.10.16 00:23:00 - [41] Edited by: Little Matt on 16/10/2008 00:25:45 They weren't paying anyway, so what change are we likely to see? Originally by: Mordrake Also an easy way to avoid this rage after the seeming heavy handedness with the loyal fan base. Loyal you say? A loyal player would not be trying to screw the company out of money. A loyal player would not be exploiting the system.
Nikla Uthaan	Posted - 2008.10.16 00:28:00 - [42] Edited by: Nikla Uthaan on 16/10/2008 00:32:19 Originally by: ISpam Originally by: Dmian Originally by: ISpam Getting something for free isnt what its about What? You don't make mistakes? A company can't change their minds about a mistake that probable is embarrasing for them? Pffff! Grow up. There would be no problem if CCP had not flat out lied about it being a bug not a feature. If they had stated they are removing it simply to increase revenue there would be no problem. I have no respect or faith in a company that would do that to its customers. I am sure many others feel the same way. I'm sick of this. *Where the does it explicitly say "This is an intended feature of the game". Show me explicit proof where it says "One of the fantastic features which we intended to be part of EVE* is that your skills can train while your account is inactive, that's part of the great service we aim to provide!" or similar and I'll buy your bullshit excuse. I could rant and rave about the definition of feature, but needless to say it's why they call it an "Unintended feature", because it features in the game but is unintended. Basically, you're choosing to take the only meaning of the word 'feature' as "something offered as a special attraction", which makes the explicit determination that it was intended, rather than "a prominent or conspicuous part or characteristic", which makes no determination as to whether it was intended or not. But meh, why try arguing the use of language with idiots. Putting "Skills continue training ... if your account is inactive" in the player guide is not promoting it as a "feature", it's pointing out an in-game effect that 'features' in the game, just the same as your game "featuring" upfk'ed graphics if you pour coke into your graphics card. What the heck is wrong with pointing out an in-game effect so that all players entering EVE are equally enabled to take advantage of it if they choose to do so, and so all people are equally disadvantaged when it's fixed or removed. You're projecting your own feeling that it was an "intended feature" when it quite clearly wasn't, just to create the false feeling you're correct in calling it a lie which creates more drama than simply labelling something 'poor programming'.
Mordrake Orbital Anvil Technologies	Posted - 2008.10.16 00:35:00 - [43] Ok so to get us back on topic: CCP can we please have the numbers of accounts canceled in the past few days? PS: To all the raging , STOP please, I do not want to see this thread locked because of it. PPS: Mods, feel free to edit off topic posts, mmmK? Thanks "Arte et Marte"
Minsc Gallente A.W.M Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.10.16 00:50:00 - [44] Originally by: Mordrake Ok so we all "Bite The Bullet" (gallows humor;) How about CCP make some other changes to allow for people in similar situations to me for an option: One Idea would be to have some leniency on account sharing. I have a select few fellow players who I trust with my Life on many occasions, I would not be in the slightest worried about my accounts or assets being subverted if I was to leave it up to them to continue training my Active accounts. Alternatively the much demanded skill quiche. Also an easy way to avoid this rage after the seeming heavy handedness with the loyal fan base. Either of these 2 options could have easily endeared CCP in the eyes of the players rather than having the players rake them over the coals.[/quote How about a nominal, reduced fee just to keep your training ticker going, say $2.00 a month for the ability to keep your skill training while the account is basically inactive. This would avoid the whole security issue of sharing account info which CCP can't realistically lighten up on. Oh, and back on topic. I predict they will lose maybe a couple thousand accounts at the outside and a bunch of character farming isk sellers will be screwed over, but I put that firmly in the Pro's category of this change. Originally by: Sharkbait please for the love of god read the dam stickies
Mordrake Orbital Anvil Technologies	Posted - 2008.10.16 01:22:00 - [45] Originally by: Minsc How about a nominal, reduced fee just to keep your training ticker going, say $2.00 a month for the ability to keep your skill training while the account is basically inactive. This would avoid the whole security issue of sharing account info which CCP can't realistically lighten up on. Oh, and back on topic. I predict they will lose maybe a couple thousand accounts at the outside and a bunch of character farming isk sellers will be screwed over, but I put that firmly in the Pro's category of this change. I like this as a third option, they could even make the price point a bit more and ensure all the character farmers do not use that option. "Arte et Marte"
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Umbra Synergy	Posted - 2008.10.16 02:35:00 - [46] so you cancelled accounts that were going to be inactive anyway yeah they are losing a whole lot of cash then Applebabe ate my signature :( but the fish hat forgives! Nemotology is the EvE religion of choice!
Brigsby5987 Caldari 32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.	Posted - 2008.10.16 02:56:00 - [47] sigh... same old I am poor, bring back GT thread. Im poor too, but I keep multiple accounts going all the time. _______________________________________ Sig? where. There's no sig here.
Freya Runestone Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.16 03:08:00 - [48] I honestly don't understand why you want to know how many accounts unsubscribed. I can't see why it matters to you. What benefit could you possibly gain from that?
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik Gallente aurorae pacificas	Posted - 2008.10.16 03:25:00 - [49] Originally by: Mordrake Step 1: I will be gone for 6 to 8 months Step 2: Cancel TV, all extra non-critical services which I will not use while away from home (EVE Online) Step 2: Ensure will and all paperwork up to date, give power of attorney to relative Step 4: Don't get killed Step 5: On reactivation enjoy a brand new Level 5 skill Step 6: PROFIT ? Comprende Amigo? No offense "amigo" but I certainly hope you are not in charge of any weapon systems that require correct co-ordinates to be punched into the system before firing. You seemed to have difficulty counting past 3. Also, dont drop the "im off fighting for my country" card like that. It makes you come off a precious and tbfh i wouldnt be surprised if you were a desk jockey with that whiny attitude. ffs man up. If you want the skills to keep ticking over pay for it just like everyone else does. Surely your danger pay should cover the 15 bucks a month you are whinning about. Shouldnt you be more concerned about that RL issues surrounding whatever theater your going into rather than your interweb spaceship character not being able to do 5% more damage. Talk about ****ed up morals.
Little Matt Caldari New Fnord Industries Black Scope Project	Posted - 2008.10.16 04:16:00 - [50] Originally by: Mordrake Alternatively the much demanded skill quiche. You're demanding skill quiche now? If it's got bacon, I'll second that.

Clair Bear Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.10.16 04:24:00 - [51] Originally by: Freya Runestone I honestly don't understand why you want to know how many accounts unsubscribed. I can't see why it matters to you. What benefit could you possibly gain from that? Well, that would be highly interesting data to an industrialist and/or trader. A lower number of new offline trained alts might mean higher profit margins in some areas and lower in others (think higher costs for banned macro miners and macro mission runners for instance). Fewer new datacore alts may bode well for some aspects of t2 production and ill for others. The possibilities for analysis and speculation are endless. All pointless speculation though since the results of this change won't be visible for several more months. And would be mixed in with results from the nano/inty/blasterboat nerf and GTC price increase.
Cat Molina Minmatar Psychotic Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.16 04:48:00 - [52] Ah, military deployment. Been there, done that. A real PITA. I remember this crazy old Sergent. He'd always run around yelling "If you can't win fair... cheat! Get the damn job done at any cost!" Wild times. Hope you find a means to get it worked out Mordrake.
Johnny Gurkha Death Cult Covenant	Posted - 2008.10.16 06:32:00 - [53] The only accurate way you will gauge how many people have quit will be here... don't expect raw numbers from anyone at CCP itself
Varrakk Phantom Squad	Posted - 2008.10.16 07:00:00 - [54] How would this have any effect? These accounts are already canceled...
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.16 07:02:00 - [55] Originally by: Minsc CCP has been asked about ghost training in dev chats before and there answer was always the same. It was not an intended feature but they didn't plan on changing it YET. There was always the possibility that they would close the loophole regardless of whether or not the playerbase had deemed it important to the game or not. The simple fact of the matter is that a large portion of the playerbase had started to exploit the loophole and they couldn't ignore it anymore. The most obvious scenario is that it is the isk sellers who realized they could make tons of cash selling cap-capable characters for real $$ were ghost-training characters up as quick as possible to sell. The problem with this loophole is that they can't selectively stop it, it's an all or nothing situation so while some people may have had a semi-legit reason to do it the loophole still has to be closed for everyone for it to be fair. Palpably false. It would be trivially easy to implement some limiting factor such as "you are allowed up to 30 days ghost training for every 5 months sub on the account"
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.16 07:03:00 - [56] Originally by: Minsc Originally by: Mordrake Ok so we all "Bite The Bullet" (gallows humor;) How about CCP make some other changes to allow for people in similar situations to me for an option: One Idea would be to have some leniency on account sharing. I have a select few fellow players who I trust with my Life on many occasions, I would not be in the slightest worried about my accounts or assets being subverted if I was to leave it up to them to continue training my Active accounts. Alternatively the much demanded skill quiche. Also an easy way to avoid this rage after the seeming heavy handedness with the loyal fan base. Either of these 2 options could have easily endeared CCP in the eyes of the players rather than having the players rake them over the coals.[/quote How about a nominal, reduced fee just to keep your training ticker going, say $2.00 a month for the ability to keep your skill training while the account is basically inactive. This would avoid the whole security issue of sharing account info which CCP can't realistically lighten up on. Oh, and back on topic. I predict they will lose maybe a couple thousand accounts at the outside and a bunch of character farming isk sellers will be screwed over, but I put that firmly in the Pro's category of this change. Do you have any evidence whatsoever of "character farming ISK sellers"? Character farming seems like a horrible why to make quick ISK.
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.16 07:37:00 - [57] I got rid of two alts last month but they were sold off to other account so I don't think they lost any revenue.
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.10.16 07:42:00 - [58] Character farming is a horrible way to make quick isk. But it is a way to make easy isk if you got enough time. I guess now quite a few people emo quitted accounts. But then in about a month they find out they cant live without their alts. That they really need that falcon alt, because you like 'solo' pvp, so they reactivate their accounts and ccp makes more money.
Aclyn Seriy Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.10.16 11:01:00 - [59] Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik Originally by: Mordrake Step 1: I will be gone for 6 to 8 months Step 2: Cancel TV, all extra non-critical services which I will not use while away from home (EVE Online) Step 2: Ensure will and all paperwork up to date, give power of attorney to relative Step 4: Don't get killed Step 5: On reactivation enjoy a brand new Level 5 skill Step 6: PROFIT ? Comprende Amigo? No offense "amigo" but I certainly hope you are not in charge of any weapon systems that require correct co-ordinates to be punched into the system before firing. You seemed to have difficulty counting past 3. Also, dont drop the "im off fighting for my country" card like that. It makes you come off a precious and tbfh i wouldnt be surprised if you were a desk jockey with that whiny attitude. ffs man up. If you want the skills to keep ticking over pay for it just like everyone else does. Surely your danger pay should cover the 15 bucks a month you are whinning about. Shouldnt you be more concerned about that RL issues surrounding whatever theater your going into rather than your interweb spaceship character not being able to do 5% more damage. Talk about **ed up morals. Hey idiot boy, try reading the ENTIRE THREAD before you put fingers to keyboard. So the guy put a 2 instead of a 3, whoopde doo. Also as the man pointed out, he liked the ghost training because while he is away on a tour of duty HE CANT CHANGE HIS SKILL! Also, later in the thread he mentions that maybe if CCP were slightly more tolerant of "openely sharing accounts" then he would happily keep paying his subscription and get his friends to change his skills for him. Oh and just one more thing, what exactly does Originally by:** PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik be more concerned about that RL issues surrounding whatever theater your going into rather than your interweb spaceship character not being able to do 5% more damage have to do with morals?? My suggestion for you, paddy, is to go away and train reading comprehension to level 2 (yes i meant 2 and not 3) and then learn how to spell so that the next time you criticize someone elses errors, you won't end up looking like a complete t w a t. Originally by: techzer0 I'm the failboat captain
Mordrake Orbital Anvil Technologies	Posted - 2008.10.16 11:43:00 - [60] Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik No offense "amigo" but I certainly hope you are not in charge of any weapon systems that require correct co-ordinates to be punched into the system before firing. You seemed to have difficulty counting past 3. Also, dont drop the "im off fighting for my country" card like that. It makes you come off a precious and tbfh i wouldnt be surprised if you were a desk jockey with that whiny attitude. ffs man up. If you want the skills to keep ticking over pay for it just like everyone else does. Surely your danger pay should cover the 15 bucks a month you are whinning about. Shouldnt you be more concerned about that RL issues surrounding whatever theater your going into rather than your interweb spaceship character not being able to do 5% more damage. Talk about ****ed up morals. No offense taken Sir, and thanks for pointing out the mistake ; ] And yes the danger pay is usually very nice, you can often put cash on the barrel head for a new car when you get back! The real issue for me I guess is the loss of training time due to the long time away from home with no way to change skills. Under the old system if I went away I could set long skill training on all accounts and cancel them all, only loosing 5 to 7 months training time in each. With the new change I will have to keep all accounts active and still loose the same training. "Arte et Marte"



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