Originally by: Xailz

---

so will be a little while before we see the impact of this imo

---

Originally by: Xailz

---

Doubt the effect will be immediate as people paying by card wont be effected by this change (as they run the accounts all the time)

so will be a little while before we see the impact of this imo

Xailz

---

Originally by: Mordrake

---

...and I will bet you the numbers are updated hourly for a select few staff members.

---

Originally by: sableye

---

to be honest I doubt they will lose much money over this anyway or even accounts, they are more likely to lose accounts due tot he fact they increased game time cards and the fact more people are being more careful with there spending

---

Originally by: Gonada

---

hey OP, i dont think yuo streamlined enough.

quit allready you cheapskate whiner.

getting something for free has changed , live with it.

---

Originally by: Gonada

---

hey OP, i dont think yuo streamlined enough.

quit allready you cheapskate whiner.

getting something for free has changed , live with it.

---

Originally by: Mordrake

---

Originally by: Xailz

---

Doubt the effect will be immediate as people paying by card wont be effected by this change (as they run the accounts all the time)

so will be a little while before we see the impact of this imo

Xailz

---

I payed all my accounts by Credit Card, was easy as pie to cancel a few, and even filled in the *why are you canceling* box as to the reason.

So CCP has a good grasp of how many accounts they have lost due to recent changes, and I will bet you the numbers are updated hourly for a select few staff members.

---

Originally by: Mordrake

---

Simple fact is when I go fight for my country I have no access to the ability to change skill training, the removed feature was a big selling point to justification of multiple accounts.

---

Originally by: Caiman Graystock

---

It's probably about 15. A lot of lying trolls on these forums.

---

Originally by: Mashie Saldana

---

Originally by: Mordrake

---

Simple fact is when I go fight for my country I have no access to the ability to change skill training, the removed feature was a big selling point to justification of multiple accounts.

---

And exactly how is it easier to change skills on inactive accounts compared to active accounts when you are away?

---

Originally by: Mashie Saldana

---

Originally by: Mordrake

---

Simple fact is when I go fight for my country I have no access to the ability to change skill training, the removed feature was a big selling point to justification of multiple accounts.

---

And exactly how is it easier to change skills on inactive accounts compared to active accounts when you are away?

---

Originally by: Mordrake

---

Originally by: Caiman Graystock

---

It's probably about 15. A lot of lying trolls on these forums.

---

Hope you are correct, love this game despite frequent and varied foopas by staffers in community relations, is why I would like to know the info up front and honest.

---

Originally by: Xailz

---

he can set a long skill in training which means less time is lost while he cant access the game

---

Originally by: Zeba

---

*unless of course your a forum warrior type and enjoy the extension of pvp and mind games onto the boards then by all means poast away![/i]

---

Originally by: Mordrake

---

...Step 2: Cancel TV, all extra non-critical services which I will not use while away from home (EVE Online)...

...Step 5: On reactivation enjoy a brand new Level 5 skill...

---

Originally by: Zeba

---

*unless of course your a forum warrior type and enjoy the extension of pvp and mind games onto the boards then by all means poast away!

---

Originally by: ISpam

---

Getting something for free isnt what its about

---

Originally by: Gonada

---

hey OP, i dont think yuo streamlined enough.

quit allready you cheapskate whiner.

getting something for free has changed , live with it.

---

Originally by: Dmian

---

Edited by: Dmian on 15/10/2008 23:29:55

Originally by: Mordrake

---

...Step 2: Cancel TV, all extra non-critical services which I will not use while away from home (EVE Online)...

...Step 5: On reactivation enjoy a brand new Level 5 skill...

---

Yeah, but you can't record the TV when you cancel it and enjoy the new season of "My name is Earl" when you return...
Sorry Mordrake, no mean to offend you. I know you're serving your country and hope you return home safe (take care there!), but understand that CCP is a company, and they make their living selling this service, and it's totally understandable that they want people to pay for it if they are getting something out of it.

---

Originally by: Xailz

---

Do you not feel this causes a knock on effect to this ?

people are watching their spending so one month they activate one account and inactive another training a lonnngg skill then reactivate it when they have the spare funds

---

Originally by: Mordrake

---

Step 1: I will be gone for 6 to 8 months

Step 2: Cancel TV, all extra non-critical services which I will not use while away from home (EVE Online)

Step 2: Ensure will and all paperwork up to date, give power of attorney to relative

Step 4: Don't get killed

Step 5: On reactivation enjoy a brand new Level 5 skill


Comprende Amigo?

---

Originally by: TYCONDEROGA

---

Originally by: Gonada

---

hey OP, i dont think yuo streamlined enough.

quit allready you cheapskate whiner.

getting something for free has changed , live with it.

---

/thread

---

Originally by: Mordrake

---

But I see the reasoning behind the move CCP has made, I just do not agree with it due to my personal choices in this incarnation.

---

Originally by: Dmian

---

Originally by: Mordrake

---

But I see the reasoning behind the move CCP has made, I just do not agree with it due to my personal choices in this incarnation.

---

Well, yours is a very particular case, and undestandable, too. I see you're not doing it to speculate, but because of your situation it make sense to ghost train, and I'm sorry, for that. What can I say? The fact that a lot of people started abusing this mechanic ruined the thing for people who needed it, like you.

Again, take care and return home safe.

---

Originally by: Sharkbait

---

please for the love of god read the dam stickies

---

Originally by: Dmian

---

Originally by: ISpam

---

Getting something for free isnt what its about

---

What? You don't make mistakes?
A company can't change their minds about a mistake that probable is embarrasing for them?
Pffff!
Grow up.

---

Originally by: Mordrake

---

So CCP has a good grasp of how many accounts they have lost due to recent changes, and I will bet you the numbers are updated hourly for a select few staff members.

---

Originally by: Pesky LaRue

---

the servers would have been down to me and my alts fighting with Chribba for veldspar rights.

---

Originally by: Minsc

---

CCP has been asked about ghost training in dev chats before and there answer was always the same. It was not an intended feature but they didn't plan on changing it YET.

There was always the possibility that they would close the loophole regardless of whether or not the playerbase had deemed it important to the game or not. The simple fact of the matter is that a large portion of the playerbase had started to exploit the loophole and they couldn't ignore it anymore. The most obvious scenario is that it is the isk sellers who realized they could make tons of cash selling cap-capable characters for real $$ were ghost-training characters up as quick as possible to sell.

The problem with this loophole is that they can't selectively stop it, it's an all or nothing situation so while some people may have had a semi-legit reason to do it the loophole still has to be closed for everyone for it to be fair.

---

Originally by: Mordrake

---

Also an easy way to avoid this rage after the seeming heavy handedness with the loyal fan base.

---

Originally by: ISpam

---

Originally by: Dmian

---

Originally by: ISpam

---

Getting something for free isnt what its about

---

What? You don't make mistakes?
A company can't change their minds about a mistake that probable is embarrasing for them?
Pffff!
Grow up.

---

There would be no problem if CCP had not flat out lied about it being a bug not a feature. If they had stated they are removing it simply to increase revenue there would be no problem. I have no respect or faith in a company that would do that to its customers. I am sure many others feel the same way.

---

Originally by: Mordrake

Ok so we all "Bite The Bullet" (gallows humor;)

How about CCP make some other changes to allow for people in similar situations to me for an option:


One Idea would be to have some leniency on account sharing.

I have a select few fellow players who I trust with my Life on many occasions, I would not be in the slightest worried about my accounts or assets being subverted if I was to leave it up to them to continue training my Active accounts.


Alternatively the much demanded skill quiche.

Also an easy way to avoid this rage after the seeming heavy handedness with the loyal fan base.


Either of these 2 options could have easily endeared CCP in the eyes of the players rather than having the players rake them over the coals.[/quote

---

How about a nominal, reduced fee just to keep your training ticker going, say $2.00 a month for the ability to keep your skill training while the account is basically inactive. This would avoid the whole security issue of sharing account info which CCP can't realistically lighten up on.

Oh, and back on topic. I predict they will lose maybe a couple thousand accounts at the outside and a bunch of character farming isk sellers will be screwed over, but I put that firmly in the Pro's category of this change.

Originally by: Sharkbait

---

please for the love of god read the dam stickies

---

Originally by: Minsc

---

How about a nominal, reduced fee just to keep your training ticker going, say $2.00 a month for the ability to keep your skill training while the account is basically inactive. This would avoid the whole security issue of sharing account info which CCP can't realistically lighten up on.

Oh, and back on topic. I predict they will lose maybe a couple thousand accounts at the outside and a bunch of character farming isk sellers will be screwed over, but I put that firmly in the Pro's category of this change.

---

Originally by: Mordrake

---

Step 1: I will be gone for 6 to 8 months

Step 2: Cancel TV, all extra non-critical services which I will not use while away from home (EVE Online)

Step 2: Ensure will and all paperwork up to date, give power of attorney to relative

Step 4: Don't get killed

Step 5: On reactivation enjoy a brand new Level 5 skill

Step 6: PROFIT ?


Comprende Amigo?

---

Originally by: Mordrake

---

Alternatively the much demanded skill quiche.

---

Originally by: Freya Runestone

---

I honestly don't understand why you want to know how many accounts unsubscribed. I can't see why it matters to you. What benefit could you possibly gain from that?

---

Originally by: Minsc

---

CCP has been asked about ghost training in dev chats before and there answer was always the same. It was not an intended feature but they didn't plan on changing it YET.

There was always the possibility that they would close the loophole regardless of whether or not the playerbase had deemed it important to the game or not. The simple fact of the matter is that a large portion of the playerbase had started to exploit the loophole and they couldn't ignore it anymore. The most obvious scenario is that it is the isk sellers who realized they could make tons of cash selling cap-capable characters for real $$ were ghost-training characters up as quick as possible to sell.

The problem with this loophole is that they can't selectively stop it, it's an all or nothing situation so while some people may have had a semi-legit reason to do it the loophole still has to be closed for everyone for it to be fair.

---

Originally by: Minsc

---

Originally by: Mordrake

Ok so we all "Bite The Bullet" (gallows humor;)

How about CCP make some other changes to allow for people in similar situations to me for an option:


One Idea would be to have some leniency on account sharing.

I have a select few fellow players who I trust with my Life on many occasions, I would not be in the slightest worried about my accounts or assets being subverted if I was to leave it up to them to continue training my Active accounts.


Alternatively the much demanded skill quiche.

Also an easy way to avoid this rage after the seeming heavy handedness with the loyal fan base.


Either of these 2 options could have easily endeared CCP in the eyes of the players rather than having the players rake them over the coals.[/quote

---

How about a nominal, reduced fee just to keep your training ticker going, say $2.00 a month for the ability to keep your skill training while the account is basically inactive. This would avoid the whole security issue of sharing account info which CCP can't realistically lighten up on.

Oh, and back on topic. I predict they will lose maybe a couple thousand accounts at the outside and a bunch of character farming isk sellers will be screwed over, but I put that firmly in the Pro's category of this change.

---

Do you have any evidence whatsoever of "character farming ISK sellers"? Character farming seems like a horrible why to make quick ISK.

Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik

---

Originally by: Mordrake

---

Step 1: I will be gone for 6 to 8 months

Step 2: Cancel TV, all extra non-critical services which I will not use while away from home (EVE Online)

Step 2: Ensure will and all paperwork up to date, give power of attorney to relative

Step 4: Don't get killed

Step 5: On reactivation enjoy a brand new Level 5 skill

Step 6: PROFIT ?


Comprende Amigo?

---

No offense "amigo" but I certainly hope you are not in charge of any weapon systems that require correct co-ordinates to be punched into the system before firing. You seemed to have difficulty counting past 3.

Also, dont drop the "im off fighting for my country" card like that. It makes you come off a precious and tbfh i wouldnt be surprised if you were a desk jockey with that whiny attitude.

ffs man up. If you want the skills to keep ticking over pay for it just like everyone else does. Surely your danger pay should cover the 15 bucks a month you are whinning about. Shouldnt you be more concerned about that RL issues surrounding whatever theater your going into rather than your interweb spaceship character not being able to do 5% more damage. Talk about ****ed up morals.

---

Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik

---

be more concerned about that RL issues surrounding whatever theater your going into rather than your interweb spaceship character not being able to do 5% more damage

---

Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik

---

No offense "amigo" but I certainly hope you are not in charge of any weapon systems that require correct co-ordinates to be punched into the system before firing. You seemed to have difficulty counting past 3.

Also, dont drop the "im off fighting for my country" card like that. It makes you come off a precious and tbfh i wouldnt be surprised if you were a desk jockey with that whiny attitude.

ffs man up. If you want the skills to keep ticking over pay for it just like everyone else does. Surely your danger pay should cover the 15 bucks a month you are whinning about. Shouldnt you be more concerned about that RL issues surrounding whatever theater your going into rather than your interweb spaceship character not being able to do 5% more damage. Talk about ****ed up morals.

---

Originally by: ISpam

---

There would be no problem if CCP had not flat out lied about it being a bug not a feature. If they had stated they are removing it simply to increase revenue there would be no problem. I have no respect or faith in a company that would do that to its customers. I am sure many others feel the same way.

---

Originally by: Torfi

---

There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses

---

Originally by: Oveur

---

---

Originally by: Mordrake

---

Any word from CCP staffers as to how many accounts have been canceled in the last 2 days?

I know I streamlined my accounts a bit.

---

Originally by: Brother Welcome

---

I realised why ghost-skilling was important too. In any MMO you have times when you want to stop, NCSoft call those 'quit points'. With ghost-skilling whenever you hit those points you would leave, but have an incentive to come back. Now there's no incentive, so the real impact won't be felt solely in terms of secondary accounts that were running at say 50% usual sub-rate, it will be felt further down the line as people who quit don't return.

-vk

---

Originally by: Mhaerdirne Solveig

---

Originally by: Brother Welcome

---

I realised why ghost-skilling was important too. In any MMO you have times when you want to stop, NCSoft call those 'quit points'. With ghost-skilling whenever you hit those points you would leave, but have an incentive to come back. Now there's no incentive, so the real impact won't be felt solely in terms of secondary accounts that were running at say 50% usual sub-rate, it will be felt further down the line as people who quit don't return.

-vk

---

this is a basic fact, and one which will be harmful to CCP and Eve itself.

---

Originally by: Corwain

---

Earlier this week I got my first paycheck from my new job. I celebrated the speed nerf and my new job by activating all 3 of my accounts at once for the first time since I lost my last job.

I used a credit card and since I live in America I only need to pay 14.95 a month, so a little under .50c a day.

---

Originally by: Xailz

---

Doubt the effect will be immediate as people paying by card wont be effected by this change (as they run the accounts all the time)

so will be a little while before we see the impact of this imo

Xailz

---

Originally by: Nikla Uthaan

---

Show me explicit proof where it says "One of the fantastic features which we intended to be part of EVE is that your skills can train while your account is inactive, that's part of the great service we aim to provide!" or similar and I'll buy your bullshit excuse.

---

Originally by: Squarl

---

Originally by: Nikla Uthaan

---

Show me explicit proof where it says "One of the fantastic features which we intended to be part of EVE is that your skills can train while your account is inactive, that's part of the great service we aim to provide!" or similar and I'll buy your bullshit excuse.

---

Okay, then what you're saying is that it's taken five years to fix a bug?

_Five_ years? How many major and minor patches? How much content released? How many fundamental changes to the cluster?

Five years.

---

Originally by: Pesky LaRue

---

i don't think anyone has said that it took them five years to fix it (although some bugs DO feel like they've been around forever), just that after 5 years of it being there it's now being abused to the point where it's in their interest to take care of it.

---

Originally by: Pesky LaRue

---

but i've never said to myself, "ok, this skill will take 47 days and therefore i'm closing my account until it's done and then reactivating"

---

Originally by: Dmian

---

Originally by: ISpam

---

Getting something for free isnt what its about

---

What? You don't make mistakes?
A company can't change their minds about a mistake that probable is embarrasing for them?
Pffff!
Grow up.

---

Originally by: Squarl

---

Originally by: Pesky LaRue

---

i don't think anyone has said that it took them five years to fix it (although some bugs DO feel like they've been around forever), just that after 5 years of it being there it's now being abused to the point where it's in their interest to take care of it.

---

So you're now calling it an exploit?

---

Originally by: Pesky LaRue

---

but i've never said to myself, "ok, this skill will take 47 days and therefore i'm closing my account until it's done and then reactivating"

---

Originally by: Alex Salas

---

In the end my money will no longer support a horrid corporation, if their is any justice hopefully one or two years from now I will be reading with glee on how CCP is closing Tranquility and they can point the avalanche started with this fiasco!

---

Originally by: Pesky LaRue

---

nope, CCP did - stop trying to twist words and perspectives so that they can justify your little emo-fit.

---

Originally by: Pesky LaRue

---

Are you clear on this yet?

---

Originally by: Cat Molina

---

You can't pay? Then you don't play. GTFO.

---

Originally by: Squarl

---

Originally by: Pesky LaRue

---

nope, CCP did - stop trying to twist words and perspectives so that they can justify your little emo-fit.

---

CCP didn't call it an exploit, they called it a 'unintended feature' here.

Originally by: Pesky LaRue

---

Are you clear on this yet?

---

Amusing personal attacks aside, what we have from CCP (link above) is that 'non-active' accounts are creating a strain on the database. Note the use of the word 'snowflake' and the juxtaposition with 'avalanche'. How many processor cycles do inactive accounts actually use?

I have never cancelled an account to undertake long training, but what personally gets my goat, is the sheer amount of outright BS that comes from CCP these days.

Oh and have a {hug}. I think you need it, your rage is too close to the surface.

---

Originally by: Pesky LaRue

---

no rage here, i just don't suffer fools or foolish arguments gladly - and i don't bookmark each thread but a Dev most certainly used the word "exploit" in the sense of "people were exploiting this unintended", go eve-search for it if you can be arsed.

---

Originally by: Pesky LaRue

---

and you're presupposition that inactive accounts don't take processor cycles means you're not really understanding what the crux of their argument is.

---

Originally by: Alex Salas

---

...The point you did not address is CCP's treatment of the community, that is what is appalling to me.

---

Originally by: Squarl

---

Originally by: Pesky LaRue

---

no rage here, i just don't suffer fools or foolish arguments gladly - and i don't bookmark each thread but a Dev most certainly used the word "exploit" in the sense of "people were exploiting this unintended", go eve-search for it if you can be arsed.

---

I'm not making the claim.

---

Originally by: Pesky LaRue

---

and you're presupposition that inactive accounts don't take processor cycles means you're not really understanding what the crux of their argument is.

---

Originally by: Squarl

---

So what is the crux of their argument?

---

Originally by: Tiirae

---

Originally by: Alex Salas

---

...The point you did not address is CCP's treatment of the community, that is what is appalling to me.

---

This aspect confuses me greatly. Not just with this issue; this type of thinking comes up every time there's a nerf or something and people feel 'betrayed' by it.

CCP are a service provider. How's the 'community' you get with your cellphone provider? What about your cable TV company, how well do they treat their 'community'?

Even within the MMO world, I can't see any other company that treats their community any better than CCP does. Stop making this so personal and you might get less frustrated.

---

Originally by: Alex Salas

---

Edited by: Alex Salas on 16/10/2008 15:20:33

Originally by: Cat Molina

---

You can't pay? Then you don't play. GTFO.

---

I do have a job therefore I did pay, I had four accounts in fact. The point you did not address is CCP's treatment of the community, that is what is appalling to me.

---

Originally by: Pesky LaRue

---

bingo. people seem to forget that just because CCP are making a game, they're not in this to make us happy, they're in this to make money.

my ISP is Comcast, they play silly buggers all the time with rate limiting, traffic shaping and now an arbitrary download cap each month - you don't see people making pointless threads and threats about that, they just move to another ISP.

as you say, people take this all so very personally - it's understandable because of their attachment to the game, but it might help them to take a step back and try and view this like any other consumer service.

---

Originally by: Cat Molina

---

Originally by: Pesky LaRue

---

bingo. people seem to forget that just because CCP are making a game, they're not in this to make us happy, they're in this to make money.

my ISP is Comcast, they play silly buggers all the time with rate limiting, traffic shaping and now an arbitrary download cap each month - you don't see people making pointless threads and threats about that, they just move to another ISP.

as you say, people take this all so very personally - it's understandable because of their attachment to the game, but it might help them to take a step back and try and view this like any other consumer service.

---

An even better example would be major theme parks; they make unpopular decisions yearly. Last winter Six Flags Over Georgia took out Deja Vu and replaced it with a Thomas The Tank Engine Kiddie-land ride. Gah!

I miss my Vekoma Inverted Boomerang... but it's not my park. SFOG had financial reasons for making the change, and no amount of complaining will change the bottom line.

And that's actually for the best. If they catered only to people like me, they'd probably go bankrupt, and then I'd have nothing to ride.

---

Originally by: Tiirae

---

This aspect confuses me greatly. Not just with this issue; this type of thinking comes up every time there's a nerf or something and people feel 'betrayed' by it.

---

Originally by: Cat Molina

---

Since it is missing; would you mind explaining how CCP mishandled this change to their game? Especially how it was mishandled to the point of 'treason'?

---

Originally by: Zeba

---

Edited by: Zeba on 15/10/2008 23:23:34

Originally by: Mordrake

---

Originally by: Caiman Graystock

---

It's probably about 15. A lot of lying trolls on these forums.

---

Hope you are correct, love this game despite frequent and varied foopas by staffers in community relations, is why I would like to know the info up front and honest.

---

Pro-tip: If you want to enjoy Eve to the fullest and always have a happy day in it (sans getting your untanked t1 hauler filled with all your evely posessions blown up at a camp) then Never Ever read the forums. Eve will feel so much moar dynamic and exciting then.*

*unless of course your a forum warrior type and enjoy the extension of pvp and mind games onto the boards then by all means poast away!

---

Originally by: Mordrake

---

Edited by: Mordrake on 16/10/2008 11:28:23

Originally by: Mashie Saldana

---

Originally by: Mordrake

---

Simple fact is when I go fight for my country I have no access to the ability to change skill training, the removed feature was a big selling point to justification of multiple accounts.

---

And exactly how is it easier to change skills on inactive accounts compared to active accounts when you are away?

---

Step 1: I will be gone for 6 to 8 months

Step 2: Cancel TV, all extra non-critical services which I will not use while away from home (EVE Online)

Step 3: Ensure will and all paperwork up to date, give power of attorney to relative

Step 4: Don't get killed

Step 5: On reactivation enjoy a brand new Level 5 skill

Step 6: PROFIT !!!


Comprende Amigo?

---

Originally by: Moto42

---

they will most likely just fudge the numbers because their pride wont let them admit they where wrong about the recent patch ..

Wait let me kinda type that..

pride wont let them admit that they did it "WRONG" Oh and look one offical statement on the entire thing, AND a hidden thread for what, almost 3 days now? 160 pages of hidden thread?

---

Originally by: Mordrake

---

Any word from CCP staffers as to how many accounts have been canceled in the last 2 days?

I know I streamlined my accounts a bit.

---

Originally by: Alex Salas

---

In general, if a provider were to dismiss your concerns IRL or in an MMO that were part fundamentally part of the product or service as a mistake and with little lead time to adjust to those changes. And it takes 100+ pages to get an official acknowledgement, it does not sit well.

---

Originally by: jitamarket checker

---

Originally by: Mordrake

---

Any word from CCP staffers as to how many accounts have been canceled in the last 2 days?

I know I streamlined my accounts a bit.

---

OVER 9000

---

Originally by: Squarl

---

...

---

Originally by: ISpam

---

Getting something for free isnt what its about

---

Originally by: Gnulpie

---

Originally by: ISpam

---

Getting something for free isnt what its about

---

Either you pay and enjoy the service CCP provide for Eve or you don't pay and then you don't have access to the service. Easy and fair.

---

Originally by: Gnulpie

---

Either you pay and enjoy the service CCP provide for Eve or you don't pay and then you don't have access to the service. Easy and fair.

---

Originally by: IronPants

---

Originally by: Zeba

---

Edited by: Zeba on 15/10/2008 23:23:34

Originally by: Mordrake

---

Originally by: Caiman Graystock

---

It's probably about 15. A lot of lying trolls on these forums.

---

Hope you are correct, love this game despite frequent and varied foopas by staffers in community relations, is why I would like to know the info up front and honest.

---

Pro-tip: If you want to enjoy Eve to the fullest and always have a happy day in it (sans getting your untanked t1 hauler filled with all your evely posessions blown up at a camp) then Never Ever read the forums. Eve will feel so much moar dynamic and exciting then.*

*unless of course your a forum warrior type and enjoy the extension of pvp and mind games onto the boards then by all means poast away!

---

Quoted for total truth. Reading forums has killed my interest in game and lead to subscription cancelling. I wish I had never found out about dev posts and eve-online forums.

---

Originally by: Mordrake

---

Rather disappointing that we can't get an honest answer to this.... or any type of response.

Meh

---

Originally by: Tortun Nahme

---

nah, that is the true badge of a forum warrior, to draw the humorous ire of the devs

---

Originally by: Zadren Radek

---

What's made me cringe is the really cynical attempts at cover-ups and appeasement that has gone on since this came to light.

1. A 120 page thread disappears up its own arse cos of a mysterious "forum issue."
2. Aforementioned 120 page thread of outrage is studiously ignored by CCP. All other attempts at discussing this are quashed. (As I'm sure this one will be.)
3. Bones are thrown in an effort to distract the restive populace: "Expansion" announcement, QEN (A VERY late QEN at that), EPG blog.
4. Devs in a "good mood" chatting up the customers in totally irrelevant threads.

Here doggies, fetch the ball! What you think we are?

And before anyone asks, no I'm not quitting and no, you can't have my stuff, though I understand the sentiments of people who are leaving. No one likes to be mugged off, especially paying customers.

---

Originally by: Sharkbait

---

please for the love of god read the dam stickies

---

Originally by: Minsc

---

The truth is it was a bug that was of low priority for them to fix as few people knew about it or used it. As can easily be seen in the character bazaar forum that's no longer the case so it's priority was increased and they finally fixed it.

You may not like it but that's just the way it is, end of story.

---

Originally by: Ji Sama

---

Thank you CCP for fixing this bug!

---

Originally by: Tortun Nahme

---

lulz, CCP reports no lost income from accounts that are/were/and were already going to be inactive

---

Originally by: Tortun Nahme

---

nah, that is the true badge of a forum warrior, to draw the humorous ire of the devs

---

Originally by: Tortun Nahme

---

aww CI you immortalized me in your signature

I'm honored

---

Originally by: Tortun Nahme

---

nah, that is the true badge of a forum warrior, to draw the humorous ire of the devs

---

Originally by: Tortun Nahme

---

nah, that is the true badge of a forum warrior, to draw the humorous ire of the devs

---

Originally by: Xen Gin

---

How is this different from any other games developers/publishers?

TBH, it's your own fault for putting CCP on a 'Holier than thou' pedestal. I expect CCP to make changes that I'm not going to like or want. Why, because it's their game, and I'm here because I enjoy it. If I didn't enjoy it, I'd either quit or come back later, not whine like a child on a WoW forum, threaten to quit then hang around.

And those of you who are claiming this 'feature' is what's keeping you here or was what sealed the deal, I suggest you actually carry out your threats and leave. Because if that is the only thing keeping you here, don't let this great game with its features of PAYING FOR GREAT GAMING hit your arse on the way out. Get over yourselves.

---

Originally by: Mordrake

---

Originally by: Ji Sama

---

Thank you CCP for fixing this bug!

---

Erm.... its actually a thread about how many people have left EVE because of this fix.

Waiting for a post from CCP staff............

---

Originally by: Zadren Radek

---

If there is that many of them, don't you think that they might have a point?

---

Originally by: Mordrake

---

Originally by: Ji Sama

---

Thank you CCP for fixing this bug!

---

Erm.... its actually a thread about how many people have left EVE because of this fix.

Waiting for a post from CCP staff............

---

Originally by: Zadren Radek

---

Edited by: Zadren Radek on 18/10/2008 06:58:26

Originally by: Xen Gin

---

How is this different from any other games developers/publishers?

TBH, it's your own fault for putting CCP on a 'Holier than thou' pedestal. I expect CCP to make changes that I'm not going to like or want. Why, because it's their game, and I'm here because I enjoy it. If I didn't enjoy it, I'd either quit or come back later, not whine like a child on a WoW forum, threaten to quit then hang around.

And those of you who are claiming this 'feature' is what's keeping you here or was what sealed the deal, I suggest you actually carry out your threats and leave. Because if that is the only thing keeping you here, don't let this great game with its features of PAYING FOR GREAT GAMING hit your arse on the way out. Get over yourselves.

---

Er...how exactly did this turn out to be my fault? Do I work for the beancounters in marketing? No. I don't even work for CCP.
My point was not on the rights or wrongs of CCP removing ghost training, tbh it was a mild irritation because of my job, nothing more. What got up my nose is the way it was done and they way the subsequent backlash was handled.

You're right, many other game developing studios are the same, SOE for example, and look what's happened to them post SWG. It doesn't make it right now does it? And let's face it, 160 (or whatever) pages of ****ed off people don't deserve to have some condescending gobshite (that'll be you) calling them whining children and telling them to get over themselves.

If there is that many of them, don't you think that they might have a point?

---

Originally by: Ji Sama

---

Originally by: Mordrake

---

Originally by: Ji Sama

---

Thank you CCP for fixing this bug!

---

Erm.... its actually a thread about how many people have left EVE because of this fix.

Waiting for a post from CCP staff............

---

Says you says I, still I would like to thank CCP for fixing this bug, and at the same time get rid of alot of exploiting whiners....
THANK YOU CCP!

---

Originally by: Tanya Stritner

---

Actually your completely wrong.
Exploiters are making billions a day and they dont care for how much the GTC costs and whether there is Ghost training or not.
I bet they can easily sustain more than 10 accounts.

This fix is actually about people who cant dedicate much of their time to Game.
Job, Children, other stuff and so.
Or people who are poor.

Being ignorant wont help you much. Hating people and the community either....

---

Originally by: Mordrake

---

Ok so the only post that I can see in all this which may be a covert response is 9000 accounts canceled over the Ghost training.

The 20000 I used in the Thread topic was not a number I pulled out of this air, I based it on total number of accounts and my personal experience in EVE over the years. How many Alts most corp mates have, how active in game they are. It was still a guess, but one given with a bit of thought.

9000 in the first few days is now probably at about 10000 or a bit more but this should level out and now only build slowly over time as people come back to find the reason they came back *That Long skill training complete* to be a Lie.

Would have been nice for the true numbers, but I don't think CCP is sharing that with us... Officially?

---

Originally by: Abrazzar

---

WHAT ?!?
OVER 9000 !?!
That can't be right !

---

Originally by: Tortun Nahme

---

lulz, CCP reports no lost income from accounts that are/were/and were already going to be inactive

---

Originally by: Janus Duo

---

Due to a large amount of MORONS doing CCP support I just thought I'd clear this incorrect statement up.

Accounts active for 6 months of a year generate infinitely more income than those active for 0 months of a year.

---

Originally by: Mashie Saldana

---

Originally by: Janus Duo

---

Due to a large amount of MORONS doing CCP support I just thought I'd clear this incorrect statement up.

Accounts active for 6 months of a year generate infinitely more income than those active for 0 months of a year.

---

I hope you realise that not all of them are cancelled, some get subbed. So if 50% are cancelled and 50% are subbed the end result is no difference in income.

---

Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans

---

CCP is a greedy money chewing monster

---

Originally by: Tortun Nahme

---

no tanya, you aren't, fall always brings a reduction in player count, schools back, holidays are over, its actually true across all mmo's

---

Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans

---

CCP is a greedy money chewing monster

---

Originally by: Speaker Dead

---

Inactive accounts leaving Eve, OMG!!! The travesty.....

---

Originally by: SPQRMocton

---

Edited by: SPQRMocton on 19/10/2008 11:07:46
I would sure like to be a fly on the wall when the geeks check their lvl 5 mothership skill on reactivation and dump in their pants

Also be sure to check out the forums for great deals on chars the natives are getting restless, the get something for nothing crowd is fleeing(thank god)

---

Originally by: Ji Sama

---

Thank you CCP for fixing this bug and reducing my lag!

---

Originally by: Alex Salas

---

Originally by: Dmian

---

Originally by: ISpam

---

Getting something for free isnt what its about

---

What? You don't make mistakes?
A company can't change their minds about a mistake that probable is embarrasing for them?
Pffff!
Grow up.

---

Let me preface what I am about to say with, "no ,you can't have my stuff."

I starting playing EVE at the tail-end of the t20 incident. CCP's blatant disrespect for their customers is just horrid and I had enough. I am a disheartened customer, if a waiter at a restaurant were to spit in your face I doubt you would want to continue your business at least with that individual.

When CCP got caught pants down over a barrel: slapping t20's wrist or "bug not feature" and to think the community would swallow their spin? It is insulting for any person's intelligence.

In the end CCP lost my business and my 4 accounts were paid for 99.9% of the time. I utilized ghost training on accident before I realized a billing error.

If you want "proof or stfu" please petition a GM and I will more than happy to confirm my 4 unsubscribed accounts. If you retort by saying go ahead leave EVE and it does not you four accounts, I say true 4 accounts is a small dent but hopefully I am the first snowflake in an avalanche.

In the end my money will no longer support a horrid corporation, if their is any justice hopefully one or two years from now I will be reading with glee on how CCP is closing Tranquility and they can point the avalanche started with this fiasco!

Now I am looking for EVE alternatives, any recommendations?

---

Originally by: Lazuran

---

Originally by: SPQRMocton

---

Edited by: SPQRMocton on 19/10/2008 11:07:46
I would sure like to be a fly on the wall when the geeks check their lvl 5 mothership skill on reactivation and dump in their pants

Also be sure to check out the forums for great deals on chars the natives are getting restless, the get something for nothing crowd is fleeing(thank god)

---

Uh-uh, I'm sure those chars are from the "get something for nothing crowd" and not from the hardcore players with 5 accounts with 2 of them ghost training.

eve.coldfront.net TQ graph - now again with the all time graph ... For all those who've been saying all year that the decline in 2008 is seasonal, schools are opening blah blah ... Watch this spot.

Concurrent users will likely be down to 15-20k before CCP sees some light I'm afraid, I hope those marketing people who spent millions on advertising in the last 2 years rather than hiring programmers and buying hardware will be booted first.

---

Originally by: SPQRMocton

---

there used to be only 2200 players on during my play hours when i started playing eve , and ccp was in ok shape money wise, I don't believe that ccp NEEDS 200 000 subscribers , and especially don't need 40000 s****suckers who want something for nothing , GOOD RIDDANCE I SAY

---

Originally by: SPQRMocton

---

there used to be only 2200 players on during my play hours when i started playing eve , and ccp was in ok shape money wise, I don't believe that ccp NEEDS 200 000 subscribers , and especially don't need 40000 s****suckers who want something for nothing , GOOD RIDDANCE I SAY

---

Originally by: Lazuran

---

Originally by: SPQRMocton

---

there used to be only 2200 players on during my play hours when i started playing eve , and ccp was in ok shape money wise, I don't believe that ccp NEEDS 200 000 subscribers , and especially don't need 40000 s****suckers who want something for nothing , GOOD RIDDANCE I SAY

---

Well go look at their yearly report then.

Linkage

See how many employees they have now, how they increased in just 1 year etc. ... You're kidding yourself if you think they could live from e.g. 2006 subscription numbers. They spent more than $31m (operating expenses + salaries) in 2007, probably a lot more in 2008. 1 year subscription = around $200 at most, that means they needed more than 150.000 subscribers throughout 2007 to sustain their expenses and probably a lot more in 2008.

Oh btw., if they don't want scumsuckers who get something for nothing, they'd better remove T2 BPOs and datacores, they give some people a sustainable free income they can pay their GTCs with.

---

Originally by: SPQRMocton

---

Edited by: SPQRMocton on 19/10/2008 12:00:56
doh your not to bright then I SAID during MY PLAY times , that was 1 to 5 am cst and yes that was the server count then http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility
look at the link and see how many subscribers there were then, and then wake up

---

Originally by: SPQRMocton

---

Originally by: Lazuran

---

Originally by: SPQRMocton

---

there used to be only 2200 players on during my play hours when i started playing eve , and ccp was in ok shape money wise, I don't believe that ccp NEEDS 200 000 subscribers , and especially don't need 40000 s****suckers who want something for nothing , GOOD RIDDANCE I SAY

---

Well go look at their yearly report then.

Linkage

See how many employees they have now, how they increased in just 1 year etc. ... You're kidding yourself if you think they could live from e.g. 2006 subscription numbers. They spent more than $31m (operating expenses + salaries) in 2007, probably a lot more in 2008. 1 year subscription = around $200 at most, that means they needed more than 150.000 subscribers throughout 2007 to sustain their expenses and probably a lot more in 2008.

Oh btw., if they don't want scumsuckers who get something for nothing, they'd better remove T2 BPOs and datacores, they give some people a sustainable free income they can pay their GTCs with.

---

try getting a job and using a card thats what I do,they have debit cards too, thats where you take your PAYCHECK deposit in the bank and then the bank sends them money from your account

---

Originally by: SPQRMocton

---

well just like the rest of the world that got ripped of by the rich bastards it's time to lose a few pounds of flesh,or take it back from them

---

Originally by: SPQRMocton

---

well just like the rest of the world that got ripped of by the rich bastards it's time to lose a few pounds of flesh,or take it back from them

---

Originally by: Lazuran

---

Originally by: SPQRMocton

---

well just like the rest of the world that got ripped of by the rich bastards it's time to lose a few pounds of flesh,or take it back from them

---

The rich bastards around the world will be saved using taxpayers' money in case you missed the news. It's poor people who will have to deal with higher prices and taxes everywhere.

The truth is that in all but the smallest companies, the owners/management make enough profits in the first couple of (good) years that they won't be hurt much by the company going broke. It's the employees that get hit hard and they're not the "rich bastards".

---

Originally by: Torfi

---

There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses

---

Originally by: Oveur

---

---

Originally by: Tanya Stritner

---

Edited by: Tanya Stritner on 18/10/2008 19:21:53
You may definitely see that the total reduction of players online is at least some 5000. Since there were up to 45k online several months ago.
Lets say only a 30% of all accounts are online prime-time on sunday.
Then by doing simple math we may see that a total of at least 15000 accounts were never renewed.

Quite a frigtening shift am i right?

---

Originally by: Xailz

---

people aren't just going to waste game time they have paid for and cancel before the time is upXailz

---

Originally by: Lazuran

---

Originally by: SPQRMocton

---

Edited by: SPQRMocton on 19/10/2008 11:07:46
I would sure like to be a fly on the wall when the geeks check their lvl 5 mothership skill on reactivation and dump in their pants

Also be sure to check out the forums for great deals on chars the natives are getting restless, the get something for nothing crowd is fleeing(thank god)

---

Uh-uh, I'm sure those chars are from the "get something for nothing crowd" and not from the hardcore players with 5 accounts with 2 of them ghost training.

eve.coldfront.net TQ graph - now again with the all time graph ... For all those who've been saying all year that the decline in 2008 is seasonal, schools are opening blah blah ... Watch this spot.

Concurrent users will likely be down to 15-20k before CCP sees some light I'm afraid, I hope those marketing people who spent millions on advertising in the last 2 years rather than hiring programmers and buying hardware will be booted first.

---

Originally by: Tortun Nahme

---

how many times have you quit now? why won't it stick dag nabbit

---

Originally by: Lazuran

---

I can't promise that I'll stay away for real this time, but after November 18th you won't see me for some time...

---

Originally by: Chaos Incarnate

---

Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 20/10/2008 00:17:29

Originally by: Lazuran

---

I can't promise that I'll stay away for real this time, but after November 18th you won't see me for some time...

---

Also, can I have your stuff?

I'll even give it back if you come back

---

Originally by: Ream Macrobutt

---

To those of you who think the unsub training is "free:"

Wrong. The training step is bought and paid for at the moment you click to initiate the new training step. There is no ongoing training process. Eve sets a couple of fields in the char info, such as current skillbook and completion date/time. It's a CALENDAR DELAY before you can use the skill, not a gameplay process that has any necessary connection to logging in or even keeping the account active.

The appearance of an ongoing training process is 100% illusion created entirely in the Eve client. If you don't log in or can't log in there is nothing happening on the servers with regard to training. It's just a static date/time after which you will be able to use the new skill level.

The way unsub training was working was also the neatest, most efficient way to implement it. What they did now was to write additional code that has to run when the account is put into suspension, pulling up the char info and if there is a skill waiting for completion, pause it. This is extra work and overhead, although not very much.

---

Originally by: Chaos Incarnate

---

Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 20/10/2008 00:17:29

Originally by: Lazuran

---

I can't promise that I'll stay away for real this time, but after November 18th you won't see me for some time...

---

Also, can I have your stuff?

I'll even give it back if you come back

---

Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda

---

Epic whine thread is epic.

---

Originally by: DubanFP

---

I don't think any one thing is going to make a huge dent in the EVE subscriberbase. However, within the last couple months they have crippled GTCs, many people are angry over the nano changes, and now ghost accounts... Those three things in such a short timespan may not kill eve, but they will hurt a lot.

---

Originally by: Chelone

---

To the poor fools who say it's just "cheapskate whining" -- guess what geniuses, if your account is inactive, YOU CAN'T PLAY ON IT. Therefore it's NOT EQUIVALENT. Some of us like to take breaks from the game! Now we can't! It was not only reasonable and correct, but SMART for CCP to allow inactive training. This is a real bonehead move on the part of CCP. But I doubt they will undo their decision anytime soon.

My only remaining question is whether or not this change could possibly bring down the ISK price of GTC's...

---

Originally by: Alex Salas

---

Originally by: Dmian

---

Originally by: ISpam

---

Getting something for free isnt what its about

---

What? You don't make mistakes?
A company can't change their minds about a mistake that probable is embarrasing for them?
Pffff!
Grow up.

---

Let me preface what I am about to say with, "no ,you can't have my stuff."

I starting playing EVE at the tail-end of the t20 incident. CCP's blatant disrespect for their customers is just horrid and I had enough. I am a disheartened customer, if a waiter at a restaurant were to spit in your face I doubt you would want to continue your business at least with that individual.

When CCP got caught pants down over a barrel: slapping t20's wrist or "bug not feature" and to think the community would swallow their spin? It is insulting for any person's intelligence.

In the end CCP lost my business and my 4 accounts were paid for 99.9% of the time. I utilized ghost training on accident before I realized a billing error.

If you want "proof or stfu" please petition a GM and I will more than happy to confirm my 4 unsubscribed accounts. If you retort by saying go ahead leave EVE and it does not you four accounts, I say true 4 accounts is a small dent but hopefully I am the first snowflake in an avalanche.

In the end my money will no longer support a horrid corporation, if their is any justice hopefully one or two years from now I will be reading with glee on how CCP is closing Tranquility and they can point the avalanche started with this fiasco!

Now I am looking for EVE alternatives, any recommendations?

---