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Ways to reduce explosion radius?

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Salpad Caldari Carebears with Attitude	Posted - 2008.10.18 16:35:00 - [1] I'm looking at Stealth Bombers, such as the Manticore, and I'd like to know if there are any ways of reducing the explosion radius - specifically of cruise missiles - besides the skill Guided Missile Precision and the bonus that the Manticore gets? Also, is my math correct that if you exploit the maximum bonus from Guided Missile Precision and from the Stealth Bomber, you can reduce the explosion radius of cruise missiles by approximately 70%? (I.e. so that they do full damage to cruisers, but still do only a small fraction of maximum damage towards frigate-sized targets?) -- Salpad
TimMc Gallente The Motley Crew	Posted - 2008.10.18 16:38:00 - [2] Why do you need any smaller? It already one-hits frigates.
Carniflex Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.10.18 16:39:00 - [3] Rigor rigs (if you can squeeze em into your setup) and hardwire (if I remeber correct it was slot 7 I think).
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2008.10.18 16:54:00 - [4] What TimMc means is that Stealth Bombers have a hidden bonus which give their cruise missiles the explosion radius of a frigate. You get the bonus you're looking for, just by flying the ship. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Raymond Sterns Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.10.18 17:05:00 - [5] SB will 1 shot just about any frigate. Except Inties going faster than the missile and Assault Frigates with enough Resist. _ Hooray for shitty marketing moves.
Stork DK Minmatar Synthetic Frontiers	Posted - 2008.10.18 17:40:00 - [6] Originally by: Raymond Sterns SB will 1 shot just about any frigate. Except Inties going faster than the missile and Assault Frigates with enough Resist. LOL I suggest you try it before making statements. -----
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Shadow Company Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.18 18:07:00 - [7] You could also use a target painter. It increases the targets signature radius instead of decreasing explosion radius, but it amounts to the same thing really. Although with maxed out guided missile skills in the relevant areas the Explosion radius of an SB is something like 37m, which means you'll do full damage against pretty much everything. Even without a target painter. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn.
TimMc Gallente The Motley Crew	Posted - 2008.10.18 18:48:00 - [8] Originally by: Stork DK Originally by: Raymond Sterns SB will 1 shot just about any frigate. Except Inties going faster than the missile and Assault Frigates with enough Resist. LOL I suggest you try it before making statements. Depending on fits, it is possible to tank a SB for a while in an AF.
Salpad Caldari Carebears with Attitude	Posted - 2008.10.18 20:27:00 - [9] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel You could also use a target painter. It increases the targets signature radius instead of decreasing explosion radius, but it amounts to the same thing really. Although with maxed out guided missile skills in the relevant areas the Explosion radius of an SB is something like 37m, which means you'll do full damage against pretty much everything. Even without a target painter. Thanks for suggesting the target painter. Even though it is outside the scope of what I asked for, it is a suggestion that has direct relevance to my question. However, I'd appreciate it if you'd show me your calculation for how an SB can get cruise missiles down to an explosion radius of 37 meters. My own calculations arrived at a much higher figure... -- Salpad
Leeluvv Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.10.18 21:27:00 - [10] Edited by: Leeluvv on 18/10/2008 21:30:37 Manticore bonus: Caldari Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Cruise Missile damage and -16.66% reduction in Explosion Radius of Cruise Missiles per level So, that's an 83% reduction to exp radius as soon as you get in the ship before any other skills or rigs. Using EFT in a Manticore with Guided Missile Precision of 4 with no rigs I get an explosion radius of 38m. So, with a skill of 5 or rigs it pretty damned easy to get it below 37m. Lee == Sig to follow
Felix Dzerzhinsky Caldari Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.10.18 21:35:00 - [11] two ways: skills and rigs ---- ECCM is a Counter-measure not a defense.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.18 21:49:00 - [12] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 18/10/2008 21:49:08 Originally by: Raymond Sterns SB will 1 shot just about any frigate. Except Inties going faster than the missile and Assault Frigates with enough Resist. I don't know. Fought 7-8 SBs in a Rifter, died to one, killed the rest, never been one-shotted. You probably can one-shot people who think their frigate is a interceptor and fit ODs/nanos/etc in their lows, but I always considered those people idiots. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Kazuma Saruwatari Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.19 00:08:00 - [13] explosion velocity is a factor as well. -
Salpad Caldari Carebears with Attitude	Posted - 2008.10.19 00:12:00 - [14] Originally by: Leeluvv -16.66% reduction in Explosion Radius of Cruise Missiles per level So, that's an 83% reduction to exp radius To me, it looks like a -60% reduction: (1-0.1667)^5= 0.4018 -- Salpad
Raymond Sterns Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.10.19 00:31:00 - [15] Originally by: Stork DK Originally by: Raymond Sterns SB will 1 shot just about any frigate. Except Inties going faster than the missile and Assault Frigates with enough Resist. LOL I suggest you try it before making statements. I have 2 or 3 times in actual fights and ended up losing it because I warped out and warped in right on top of a Vagabond. How the other guy managed to dodge 7-8 SBs in a Rifter, I don't know. Also, you should see a doctor about pulling your head out of your bum. I don't think that's good for you. _ Hooray for shitty marketing moves.
Salpad Caldari Carebears with Attitude	Posted - 2008.10.21 05:18:00 - [16] Originally by: Salpad Originally by: Leeluvv -16.66% reduction in Explosion Radius of Cruise Missiles per level So, that's an 83% reduction to exp radius To me, it looks like a -60% reduction: (1-0.1667)^5= 0.4018 Am I correct, or is LeeLuvv? -- Salpad
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.21 05:23:00 - [17] Originally by: Raymond Sterns Originally by: Stork DK Originally by: Raymond Sterns SB will 1 shot just about any frigate. Except Inties going faster than the missile and Assault Frigates with enough Resist. LOL I suggest you try it before making statements. I have 2 or 3 times in actual fights and ended up losing it because I warped out and warped in right on top of a Vagabond. How the other guy managed to dodge 7-8 SBs in a Rifter, I don't know. Also, you should see a doctor about pulling your head out of your bum. I don't think that's good for you. It's a matter of player skill in question. Idiot SB's might try to engage at very close range - a Rifter can indeed shrug off a volley or two and it's a/c's will certainly cut an SB to pieces in short order if you can bring them to bear. If the bomber pilot started at long range, nothing is going to stop the rifter from walking away from the fight. Bombers can indeed 1 shot MOST T1 friagtes and stationary interceptors. AF's will take about 2 - 3 shots (base EHP), and potentially quite a bit more once you start adding tanking modules. Really, if the fight requires you to fire more than a volley and then running like hell, you're probably going to need more ships to get a kill.
Crackzilla The Shadow Order	Posted - 2008.10.21 05:35:00 - [18] Originally by: Raymond Sterns How the other guy managed to dodge 7-8 SBs in a Rifter, I don't know. Sounds like he was referring to 7 or 8 seperate engagements with the results of each.
EFT Warrior	Posted - 2008.10.21 06:05:00 - [19] Anything that can outrun your missiles, which happens to be the ships you're shooting in a stealth bomber, will do just that and you will die a horrible death. Anything that doesn't outrun your missiles will still outrun the explosive velocity of cruise missiles and you will die a horrible death. Anything that doesn't outrun the explosive velocity will probably live through your initial volley or two and will either warp off or get a lock on you and you will die a horrible death. Anything that doesn't do any of the above is either a mining ship, hauler or frigate sitting still at a gate. Thus, Stealth Bombers are good for two things: harassing enemy supply lines and killing people sitting still at a gatecamp. Stealth bombers fit in nicely with the idea behind Black Ops, its just a shame that they can't use a cov ops cloak, but I think we have plenty of ships that do that already.
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.10.21 06:19:00 - [20] Originally by: Salpad Originally by: Salpad Originally by: Leeluvv -16.66% reduction in Explosion Radius of Cruise Missiles per level So, that's an 83% reduction to exp radius To me, it looks like a -60% reduction: (1-0.1667)^5= 0.4018 Leeluvv is right, the change belonging to one skill, like more DPS or smallr explosion radius, is just the change times the level of your skill. Between different skills it is like you calculate it. Am I correct, or is LeeLuvv?
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2008.10.21 06:38:00 - [21] there is also combat booster which reduces explosion radius
Max Hardcase Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2008.10.21 07:35:00 - [22] Edited by: Max Hardcase on 21/10/2008 07:36:32 The only problem that stealth bombers will have vs small targets is the targets speed being greater than the cruiseM's explosion speed. The solution to your problem is therefore a Stasis Web. However this is sort of a quandary since this requires you to be close to your target and therefor in range of frigate class weapons. The solution would be to team up with a minnie EAF. Normal frigates are already bigger than the explosion radius. Only Interceptors have a smaller radius but there the speed problem will be even bigger.
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.21 07:36:00 - [23] Originally by: Salpad Originally by: Leeluvv -16.66% reduction in Explosion Radius of Cruise Missiles per level So, that's an 83% reduction to exp radius To me, it looks like a -60% reduction: (1-0.1667)^5= 0.4018 That's not how it is calculated though. Almost no skills work like that in EvE (Day Trading is the exception IIRC). It is 1 -(0.1667 x 5)
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.21 07:37:00 - [24] Originally by: EFT Warrior Anything that can outrun your missiles, which happens to be the ships you're shooting in a stealth bomber, will do just that and you will die a horrible death. Anything that doesn't outrun your missiles will still outrun the explosive velocity of cruise missiles and you will die a horrible death. Anything that doesn't outrun the explosive velocity will probably live through your initial volley or two and will either warp off or get a lock on you and you will die a horrible death. Anything that doesn't do any of the above is either a mining ship, hauler or frigate sitting still at a gate. Thus, Stealth Bombers are good for two things: harassing enemy supply lines and killing people sitting still at a gatecamp. Stealth bombers fit in nicely with the idea behind Black Ops, its just a shame that they can't use a cov ops cloak, but I think we have plenty of ships that do that already. 1 good benefit of letting SBs have covops cloaks would be to make people STFU about Falcons.
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.21 07:39:00 - [25] Originally by: Salpad Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel You could also use a target painter. It increases the targets signature radius instead of decreasing explosion radius, but it amounts to the same thing really. Although with maxed out guided missile skills in the relevant areas the Explosion radius of an SB is something like 37m, which means you'll do full damage against pretty much everything. Even without a target painter. Thanks for suggesting the target painter. Even though it is outside the scope of what I asked for, it is a suggestion that has direct relevance to my question. However, I'd appreciate it if you'd show me your calculation for how an SB can get cruise missiles down to an explosion radius of 37 meters. My own calculations arrived at a much higher figure... Additional to what has been posted, IIRC there are also implants that reduce explosion radius and increase explosion velocity. Velocity is much more important though.
Leeluvv Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.10.21 08:12:00 - [26] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Salpad Originally by: Leeluvv -16.66% reduction in Explosion Radius of Cruise Missiles per level So, that's an 83% reduction to exp radius To me, it looks like a -60% reduction: (1-0.1667)^5= 0.4018 That's not how it is calculated though. Almost no skills work like that in EvE (Day Trading is the exception IIRC). It is 1 -(0.1667 x 5) I thought skills were added as a single value, but then multiplied with mods, etc. Lee == Sig to follow
Leeluvv Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.10.21 08:16:00 - [27] Edited by: Leeluvv on 21/10/2008 08:16:12 Oh, and on SiSi they have changed the way missiles work, so you may want to read up and go practice over there. Missiles have a much lower exp velocity stat now, but they still damage fast ships as sig radius is taken into account of the exp velocity effect. What the changes do is make you do more damage to fast small ships using MWDs than slower small ships using afterburners. i.e. You do more damage to a ship flying at 4,000 m/s than one flying at 1,700 m/s. Lee == Sig to follow
The Tzar Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2008.10.21 22:00:00 - [28] Have a Ragnarok in gang? __________________________________________ 'Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear intelligent until they speak' __________________________________________
Salpad Caldari Carebears with Attitude	Posted - 2008.10.21 23:48:00 - [29] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Salpad To me, it looks like a -60% reduction: (1-0.1667)^5= 0.4018 That's not how it is calculated though. Almost no skills work like that in EvE (Day Trading is the exception IIRC). It is 1 -(0.1667 x 5) Thanks for clearing that up for me! -- Salpad

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