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heavy drones STILL wtfpwn my frig

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Prodigious	Posted - 2004.06.29 02:38:00 - [1] hm. were the drone changes implemented yet?
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2004.06.29 02:47:00 - [2] Clearly no.
Lansfear	Posted - 2004.06.29 04:03:00 - [3] Edited by: Lansfear on 29/06/2004 04:04:21 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=87725 Now how do i make this url say "Read me"?
Subedai	Posted - 2004.06.29 05:08:00 - [4] They're sposed to wtfpwn your frig. Frigate skill level III - 8 hours Drones skill level 5 - nearly 20days. 1 frigate = 200k 1 drone = 80k ie 3 drones SHOULD WTFPWN you....
Berilac	Posted - 2004.06.29 05:18:00 - [5] try they still 'wtfpwn' interceptors too. lets see: Evacive manuvering 5 - 15+ days Frigate 5 - 15+ Drones: drone 5 - 20 days Ceptors: 5m-8m isk 10 Heavy drones: 800k isk huh, your argument doesnt hold up... --- 'Sweeden Steel Bite hard'
Prodigious	Posted - 2004.06.29 05:29:00 - [6] Originally by: Subedai They're sposed to wtfpwn your frig. Frigate skill level III - 8 hours Drones skill level 5 - nearly 20days. 1 frigate = 200k 1 drone = 80k ie 3 drones SHOULD WTFPWN you.... i got a message for u in the other thread. u dense little man.
Omniwar	Posted - 2004.06.29 05:43:00 - [7] Originally by: Lansfear Edited by: Lansfear on 29/06/2004 04:04:21 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=87725 Now how do i make this url say "Read me"? Scream at it and call it bad names until it says read me Nah, quote me and then you see the changes I made in your url here below. Read me. *Spawn of the Devil*
Xelios	Posted - 2004.06.29 05:52:00 - [8] If you don't want to be owned by heavy drones, take more than 1 frigate when you attack a ship carrying them. Take 6 or 7. Stop whining for changes and use the game mechanics that are already in place, you can't assault a battleship carrying drones with a couple 100k frigates, get over it. All we need is a fix for the infinite range of drones. That's all.
Lansfear	Posted - 2004.06.29 06:12:00 - [9] Originally by: Subedai They're sposed to wtfpwn your frig. Frigate skill level III - 8 hours Drones skill level 5 - nearly 20days. 1 frigate = 200k 1 drone = 80k ie 3 drones SHOULD WTFPWN you.... I love this arguement. Please add to your cost: gunnery skills, missle skills, enginnering skills, electronic skills, navigation skills, spaceship command skills, and probably more i cant remember. I have 10.5 million skill points. My interceptor died in 4-6 seconds vs only drones. You can feel free to add to the argument. I dnt care about drone trackig or max drone damage anymore, i just want them to have an actual firing range i can work around somehow.
Omniwar	Posted - 2004.06.29 06:15:00 - [10] Originally by: Xelios If you don't want to be owned by heavy drones, take more than 1 frigate when you attack a ship carrying them. Take 6 or 7. Stop whining for changes and use the game mechanics that are already in place, you can't assault a battleship carrying drones with a couple 100k frigates, get over it. All we need is a fix for the infinite range of drones. That's all. He¦s not whining imo since it has been said that tracking on drones will be adjusted so heavy drones will have a hard time hitting small ships plus the fact that after drones shoot at you you have to leave the grid for them to stop. When people want changes its not always whining and certainly is not bad, changes = adapting = fun. But thats just my opinion. *Spawn of the Devil*
Lansfear	Posted - 2004.06.29 06:16:00 - [11] Originally by: Omniwar Originally by: Lansfear Edited by: Lansfear on 29/06/2004 04:04:21 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=87725 Now how do i make this url say "Read me"? Scream at it and call it bad names until it says read me Nah, quote me and then you see the changes I made in your url here below. Read me. \o/ Thanks omni.
Meridius	Posted - 2004.06.29 06:24:00 - [12] I'm all for killing the infinte range drones. Heavy drones should not have tracking trouble tracking something bigger then they are tho, period. Do frigs have trouble tracking cruisers? The size ratio might not be the same but you get the idea Ceptor/Frig pilots should be able to warp away or get out of range, thats about it though. ________________________________________________________
Xelios	Posted - 2004.06.29 07:15:00 - [13] Edited by: Xelios on 29/06/2004 07:16:10 Exactly, fix the range bug, leave the tracking alone. Lets say drones have a range of 20km after they fix the bug, lets also say a frigate starts getting hit by some. That frigate has plenty of time to hit mwd and get over 20km away before it dies. Now picture 5 or 6 frigates doing this, all attacking the drones. Heavy drones are a battleship's only remaining defense against frigates. The only other option is to replace large turrets with medium guns and a web or two. Even large smartbombs don't have enough range to be terribly useful against frig pilots who know what they're doing. I'm an interceptor pilot myself, I've trained all but amarr frig to 5 and I can fly both interceptors and covert ops frigs, I still say leave the drones alone. Thus far I've seen no good reason to change their tracking, other than people not liking their 100k frigate being owned by a 120 mil battleship with drones.
Omniwar	Posted - 2004.06.29 07:38:00 - [14] Originally by: Xelios Edited by: Xelios on 29/06/2004 07:16:10 Heavy drones are a battleship's only remaining defense against frigates. The only other option is to replace large turrets with medium guns and a web or two. Even large smartbombs don't have enough range to be terribly useful against frig pilots who know what they're doing. You just in a way explaned what the DEV team is going to do. I belief it was TomB that said that the changes would be made since one size should not be used for all purposes, same as large weapons did in the past. In order to defend against frigates and cruisers but yet be prepared to take on a Battleship now all you need is large weapons and heavy drones, getting hit by frigates you launch the drones, getting hit by a Battleship you launch the drones and shoot your guns, end of story. It seems the DEV team doesnt want that, they want that you fit weapons to track and hit frigates or/and use drones that can follow and track fast moving frigates, heavy drones are not the single solution to an orbiting frigate, not by a long shot. Use cap drainer, web, smartbomb, smaller turrets, also there was talk about smaller missiles required to hit frigates instead of the single solution called cruise missiles, heck even a low class large turret hits a frigate that is using MWD and is webbed and missile are quick to kill a frigate if it cant use MWD because it was cap drained. Drones have 3 classes, same as modules and ships, each class has its purpose except for drones, that will be fixed according to (like i said I belief it was) TomB. If those changes dont fit your gameplay then like all other changes that have happaned in the past, tough luck. It¦s called balancing, right now drones are unbalanced. Our opinions dont matter since its not our game to begin with, we just have the option of pay to play or not to. *Spawn of the Devil*
Subedai	Posted - 2004.06.29 07:50:00 - [15] Skills aside. Interceptor = 4m Battleship = 110m 110/4=27.5 using my previous argument and your counterargument we come to the conclusion that wow even 14-15 ints shouldnt be able to take down a bs that has drones..... i bet they can if they worked together on the drones first but thats another story. Hell even the platinum insurance cost of a single lost bs is almost 10 replaced interceptors.
Omniwar	Posted - 2004.06.29 07:52:00 - [16] Originally by: Xelios Edited by: Xelios on 29/06/2004 07:16:10 I'm an interceptor pilot myself, I've trained all but amarr frig to 5 and I can fly both interceptors and covert ops frigs, I still say leave the drones alone. Thus far I've seen no good reason to change their tracking, other than people not liking their 100k frigate being owned by a 120 mil battleship with drones. So by the same law a crow that costs on the market over 10 millions should be able to own a thorax that costs around 5-6? millions in 1 on 1 because the crow costs more, that logic is flawed since a thorax can take out few interceptors that cost combined the same as tier 1 battleship just because it can wield 10 heavy drones and thus kill the frigates one by one in matter of heartbeats. The cost of things has no merit in discussions like this one since a rooky (cheapest ship in the game) ship can kill an Apoc (most expancive ship in the game) if the Apoc is fitted wrong, it takes times yes but it can be done, same as 2 frigates take on a Megathron near a planet and kill it since it has not offencive power that can hit them (this I have done with TWD). The reasons are there but you wont see them because they dont fit your playstyle, and I know you can and do fly interceptors but that doesnt mean your views are not biased. *Spawn of the Devil*
FuPhal	Posted - 2004.06.29 08:04:00 - [17] Skills aside. Interceptor = 4m Battleship = 110m 110/4=27.5 What kinda lamer opinion is that.... Even if a BS couldnt hit an interceptor, its not as if the interceptor would be able to kill a BS unless he was afk. Heavy drones ARE in need of a good nerfing. I dont think interceptors should be able to orbit a BS without gettign hit at all but currently, if a load of heavy drones are release u literrally have seconds to get the fuk outta there or ure in a pod and even in an interceptor that isnt long enough sometimes. A ship that costs 5-10 million should be able to at least get away from stuff like that :/
Omniwar	Posted - 2004.06.29 08:14:00 - [18] Originally by: Subedai Skills aside. Interceptor = 4m Battleship = 110m 110/4=27.5 using my previous argument and your counterargument we come to the conclusion that wow even 14-15 ints shouldnt be able to take down a bs that has drones..... i bet they can if they worked together on the drones first but thats another story. Hell even the platinum insurance cost of a single lost bs is almost 10 replaced interceptors. First off, you assume its all balanced and good since it fits you gamestyle I assume, well news flash man, it has been stated by CCP officials that this will be balanced same as other classed items, small medium and large, in the past it was large = best, it was fixed and people adapted after huge amounts of flaming. Now the same will happen with drones and again people flame the changes even before they happen, seen it happen since the start of the game and it seems it will never stop when changes are to be made. I for one find it really hard to belief that people cant see that its not balanced and needs fixing. For an excample, its a drone controlled by the ships AI, one drone with huge gun (compared to other drones) should have somewhat harder time to track its weapon to follow a fast moving target, smaller drone with smaller weapon that does less dmg per shot but simular damage per second turns its weapons faster to follow fast moving targets, the only draw back is that the smaller drone has less defense but then again that drone is smaller an can you imagine something, you can carry more of them and launch new after each is destroyed. I am not sure but I think that is the plans that are being made at CCP Development department regarding drones. Try to look at everything from both sides since being totally blocked from one side always yeilds terrible results. *Spawn of the Devil*
Omniwar	Posted - 2004.06.29 08:20:00 - [19] I forgot to add, people didnt complane when sentry guns were given lock times and tracking so now they get wreckings and misses. Yet people complain if tracking for drones will be looked in to. Drones dont miss and they kill any frigate in seconds no matter how fast it goes, ordit you target at 20+km/s at very close range in one of the smallest ships in the game and they still dont miss, nothing should have godlike abilities in a game. *Spawn of the Devil*
Bug	Posted - 2004.06.29 08:22:00 - [20] Edited by: Bug on 29/06/2004 08:23:06 Quote: Skills aside. Interceptor = 4m Battleship = 110m 110/4=27.5 A decent sized rock = 15cm A fragmentation handgrenade = 15cm
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.06.29 08:22:00 - [21] Nice posts Omniwar. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
hatchette	Posted - 2004.06.29 08:30:00 - [22] changes = adapting = fun. Nice omniwar;) /me agrees.
Jeswyn	Posted - 2004.06.29 08:52:00 - [23] Originally by: Subedai Skills aside. Interceptor = 4m Battleship = 110m 110/4=27.5 using my previous argument and your counterargument we come to the conclusion that wow even 14-15 ints shouldnt be able to take down a bs that has drones..... i bet they can if they worked together on the drones first but thats another story. Hell even the platinum insurance cost of a single lost bs is almost 10 replaced interceptors. Maybe you should start using escorts then? A Battleship is no freelancer. Once the drones are fixed 4-5 Interceptors/heavy frigs will take your BS down. Ever heard of mixed fleets?
TGIF	Posted - 2004.06.29 09:33:00 - [24] Ogres, preator and beserker currently lack the ability to shoot infinite range + speed to keep up with frigates. - - - Absinthe Fueled
Estios	Posted - 2004.06.29 10:00:00 - [25] Really TGIF ? Cool, fixing that infinite range bug is so important before any balancing/tracking issues imo Heavy drones should struggle to constantly hit frigs though and I dont mind carrying some Hammerheads etc. Just dont wanna see the same mess made as with turrets ie one sized drone being completely useless against another sized. They just need sensible penalties. /emote loads up on Wasps for time being So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
Grut	Posted - 2004.06.29 10:18:00 - [26] Originally by: Subedai Skills aside. Interceptor = 4m Battleship = 110m 110/4=27.5 using my previous argument and your counterargument we come to the conclusion that wow even 14-15 ints shouldnt be able to take down a bs that has drones..... i bet they can if they worked together on the drones first but thats another story. Hell even the platinum insurance cost of a single lost bs is almost 10 replaced interceptors. Or look at it another way, Cost of losing a crow 12mil Cost of losing a scorp 15mil That makes it look pretty even dont you think? So when to I get to spam torps from my crow Mostly harmless
Ithildin	Posted - 2004.06.29 10:59:00 - [27] Grut, get a new producer for your Crow. He isn't supposed to charge you 14 million for a ship that cost him 1 million to build. --- I am actually of the oppinion that drones are... underpowered. waiting for reactions Now, I am not talking about large drones being able to take out frigates faster than a Claw on speed. Mostly, it's an oppinion formed from the cumbersome drone system. What need looking into (pretty soon): * Bug Infinite range of drones * Design flaw The loss of drones when warping out * Design flaw The difficulty associated with launching specific drones from a large set * Balance issue Drones are just an extra tiny amount of damage. One interceptor turret is actually able to deal more damage per second than 3-4 Heavy Drones. * Balance issue Drones, being close ranged, completely lack the speed to keep up with their host. * Design flaw There are only 2 kinds of combat drones, there should be 3 (medium drones missing) * Design flaw "Medium" drones are missing one or two drones * Feature request Long ranged, but poor damage dealing drones, would be intresting to have * Feature request Utility drones does not exist (I know some are in planning), such as looting drones, repair drones, and EW drones. * Design/Balance issue Drone bays which are limited to drone size only, does not really cut it, nor fit in the EVE universe. On the last point: I'd like to see a completely new drone system, whith these features: * Fitting There is a special drone hard point. Or rather a Drone docking slot. This effectively limits a ships capabilities of carrying drones to such an extent that Drone specialized ships become a viable, and possibly more balance, option. * Fitting Drones currently require no attention, nor maintainance, from the ship. It would be more intresting if they came to require CPU and Powergrid. As an added effect of this maintainance, they should be repaired when docked after/over a time frame. * Utility Drones should not stray from the host ship too far. Effectively they should remain at a range where they can quickly return and dock when the host enters warp. * Balance I am not adverse to see drones have tracking. At the same time, damage should be increased. * Skills Drone tracking, drone damage, and drone utility range should have separate and clear skills. The skills allowing the use of a drone type should have a homogene type of bonus. * Effect Gallente ships will more greatly rely on drones as a form of weapon, instead of support or frigate protection (which to a very large extent they are reduced to now), while at the same time the fitting requirements ensure that balance issues do not go out of hand. Bottom line: drones are a bit broken, and they are of little real use. Any change the Devs do to drones will not have as big ramifications as the turret changes on the EVE community. * Do not be afraid to change and improve drones, developers! -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.
Drone1	Posted - 2004.06.29 11:15:00 - [28] I'm not sure what purpose heavies will serve after they get nerfed. If they cannot be used against smaller ships for close defense what are they for? They have negligible impact when engaging another bs. That leaves attacking indies, hardly seems necessary to use drones in such cases. The argument that a bs cannot engage a frigate but that a frigate can engage a bs due to relative size seems to have been ignored if this change goes ahead.
TGIF	Posted - 2004.06.29 11:21:00 - [29] Originally by: Estios Really TGIF ? Cool, fixing that infinite range bug is so important before any balancing/tracking issues imo Heavy drones should struggle to constantly hit frigs though and I dont mind carrying some Hammerheads etc. Just dont wanna see the same mess made as with turrets ie one sized drone being completely useless against another sized. They just need sensible penalties. /emote loads up on Wasps for time being Yep, i was npc hunting in this belt after the patch, released my ogres and attacked a frigate. The frigate raced of and my ogres following without doing damage. After a while the ogre got way back and my wasp was the only one doing damage and keeping up. - - - Absinthe Fueled
Dreez	Posted - 2004.06.29 12:05:00 - [30] My suggestion: Heavy Drones : Used against battleships and other capital ships. High tracking penalty against frigate, Medium penalty against Cruisers. Medium Drones : Used against cruisers/battleships, medium tracking penalty against frigate, no penalty against battleships or cruisers. Light Drones : Used against frigates, no tracking penalty for any shipclass. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The reason why i want to see these changes is so that the drone carriers becomes more important since they can carry several waves of diffrent drones and would be optimal for handling Drone defense. I want the battleship pilots to be forced to chose between using either only drones against other battleships or carry some drones against frigates incase some would chose to show up. They always do . I would also like to see the drones beeing worked on abit more when it comes to their range because at their current status they can start hitting a frigate orbeting at 5km, and still hit it at full damage while the frigate is moving over 100km away. But FIRST OF ALL, CCP should fix all the important bugs instead of nerfing the game to sheit !! My Suggestion to CCP and TomB : 1: Decrease the payments to whoever is doing the nerfing. 2: Increase the payments to whoever is doing the bughunting. 'Trying to argue logically with Evol is like trying to teach a pig to dance. It only makes you look foolish and really annoys the pig ' - Duke Droklar [OC]

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