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Kepakh
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Posted - 2008.10.29 19:44:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Murina
/signed
I just tested a BC vs a ceptor that was orbiting at mwd and afterburner speeds and at range to simulate a situation where a ceptor would be tackling a gang member.
The ceptor got owned with pulse and beams so bad it was painful to watch.
This patch sucks.
You mind to post the setup of your test?
My results are way different... Since they added reduced MWD sig penalty bonus, inty orbiting at 5km/s is untouchable by medium turrets.
Just in terms of raw chance to hit, not saying you can't kill it.
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Murina
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.29 20:40:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Kepakh
Originally by: Murina
/signed
I just tested a BC vs a ceptor that was orbiting at mwd and afterburner speeds and at range to simulate a situation where a ceptor would be tackling a gang member.
The ceptor got owned with pulse and beams so bad it was painful to watch.
This patch sucks.
You mind to post the setup of your test?
My results are way different... Since they added reduced MWD sig penalty bonus, inty orbiting at 5km/s is untouchable by medium turrets.
Just in terms of raw chance to hit, not saying you can't kill it.
As far as im aware the pilot was a med-high skilled amaar BC pilot fitted for anti support and tank although he did mix pulse and beams on the top rack to save refit time
I was flying the ceptor and the BC was fitted with beams and pulse as we were testing if it could hit regularly with each weapon type and a variety of ammo.
The ceptor was 5kms fitted orbiting a jettisoned container not the BC and while doing so the BC easily hit the inty. I never tested it orbiting the BC as it seemed irrelevant for a gang combat test as you cannot be at 0 to multiple ships.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2008.10.29 20:52:00 -
[33]
it's a new game, really. the basic combat mechanics are being shoved around quite a bit. i see lots of potential there.
however, if CCP's reaction time to obviously broken mechanics stays like this and we have to go through (re)balancing for the next 2-3 years because lasers are the FotM or the next ECM overhaul takes months or drones hit everything or whatever, then "history repeating" will outclass/~gun/~number the potential any time
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putting the gist back into logistics |
oilio
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.29 21:15:00 -
[34]
Edited by: oilio on 29/10/2008 21:15:09
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
it's a new game, really.
Indeed. Seems we're all about to have a New Gaming Experience!  |
Fulber
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Posted - 2008.10.29 21:26:00 -
[35]
Originally by: oilio
Edited by: oilio on 29/10/2008 21:15:09
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
it's a new game, really.
Indeed. Seems we're all about to have a New Gaming Experience!
I see what you did there. |
Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2008.10.29 23:01:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Fulber
Originally by: oilio
Edited by: oilio on 29/10/2008 21:15:09
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
it's a new game, really.
Indeed. Seems we're all about to have a New Gaming Experience!
I see what you did there.
That would also involve removing 90% of the skills and kill the industry and economy by making all the best equipment quest based and non-tradeable.
Originally by: Signature
Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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oilio
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.29 23:19:00 -
[37]
Edited by: oilio on 29/10/2008 23:19:16
Originally by: Washell Olivaw
That would also involve removing 90% of the skills and kill the industry and economy by making all the best equipment quest based and non-tradeable.[/quote
SSSSHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
Someone from CCP might be taking notes!
You might have set the roadmap for the next "re-balancing" |
Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2008.10.29 23:24:00 -
[38]
Originally by: oilio
Someone from CCP might be taking notes!
You might have set the roadmap for the next "re-balancing"
As long as they're not bought by LucasArts I'm not worried.
Or EA, but that's for whole other reasons.
Originally by: Signature
Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Freakdevil
Phantom Squad
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.29 23:59:00 -
[39]
This patch is really a boost to low sec if you think about it.
Webs are much weaker now. Blasterships have tracking issues. Transport ships might be able to fit covert ops cloaks.
Honestly, this patch sounds like a good recipe for more pew pew in low sec.
It will be good.
/signed
btw, I do think Rapier pilots are getting royally screwed and CCP should really look at changing the bonus of target painter to armor tanking. Sounds crazy but the ship has very little chance now. Other recons will shine best.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.10.30 00:12:00 -
[40]
Yeah, because target painters won't be useful at all in a world of sig tanks... 
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Esmenet
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Posted - 2008.10.30 00:39:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Freakdevil
This patch is really a boost to low sec if you think about it.
It just means you need a (much) bigger blob.
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Kepakh
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Posted - 2008.10.30 22:36:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Kepakh on 30/10/2008 22:37:34
Originally by: Murina
As far as im aware the pilot was a med-high skilled amaar BC pilot fitted for anti support and tank although he did mix pulse and beams on the top rack to save refit time
I was flying the ceptor and the BC was fitted with beams and pulse as we were testing if it could hit regularly with each weapon type and a variety of ammo.
The ceptor was 5kms fitted orbiting a jettisoned container not the BC and while doing so the BC easily hit the inty. I never tested it orbiting the BC as it seemed irrelevant for a gang combat test as you cannot be at 0 to multiple ships.
OK, I see. Your statement is rather misleading, I would say. Even now on TQ, you can't tackle the target and being under fire from other ships. Basicaly once you are targeted by other ship than target you are supposed to tackle, it is high time to disengage.
If you want to tackle on Sisi, you can do it(it is much harder to hit an inty in some cases). No protection from missiles though.
EDIT: Typos
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.31 02:23:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Freakdevil
This patch is really a boost to low sec if you think about it.
Webs are much weaker now. Blasterships have tracking issues. Transport ships might be able to fit covert ops cloaks.
Honestly, this patch sounds like a good recipe for more pew pew in low sec.
Like how?
More blobbing in low-sec, yeah. Since the only way to reliably get kills is bring ****loads of DPS given how weak webbing is... and how badly big ships which can tank sentries fare out of a blob (and how well within a blob) post patch.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.31 02:28:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Kayosoni
well, fact is nothing on sisi can hit assault frigs or interceptors except other assault frigs or inters. Even a vaga and ishtar can't hit my webbed hawk on sisi. hacs are useless against frigates now.
Yeah, because the 0.01 angular velocity which you will have vs people's gang mates will really make you speedtank. Of course. 
Originally by: Kayosoni
What I mean is, to put it kind of vaguely, the current fleet warfare of bringing all BSs and some token support + dictors/hictors will not work after the patch. It will require much more fleet diversification. It's pretty obvious why and what's going to happen in fleet battles if you think about it for 10 minutes.
It will. See above.
Originally by: Marconus Orion
NOTHING will ever make people decide NOT to bring more numbers. People want to win, and no matter what game changes happen, superior numbers will always be a tactic.
Which is a valid reason to make other tactics unviable.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Nian Banks
Minmatar
Berserkers of Aesir
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Posted - 2008.10.31 03:51:00 -
[45]
Well to combat blobs, CCP could always implement something similar to the warhammer 40k army rules.
Basically you have to have a balanced force, you must have a leader, infantry, then heavy and specialized... Class certain ships in different categories of combat. Then make is that gang bonuses only work in a fleet and the fleet must be structured as a fleet with the mix. Bring back gangs for those who want unbalanced blobs but gang bonuses won't work.
Then we can introduce more leadership skills that have an effect on damage, weapon range, tracking, sensor strength, drone damage - speed - hitpoints...
Make it that the balanced fleet gets the bonuses and it is unfavorable to just blob without a mix.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.31 10:53:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Kepakh
My results are way different... Since they added reduced MWD sig penalty bonus, inty orbiting at 5km/s is untouchable by medium turrets.
Just in terms of raw chance to hit, not saying you can't kill it.
Which is sortof stupid since on TQ if you want to be untouchable by medium turrets, you can do it (and be successful in gang on gang situations too) if you're going to sink some ISK into your interceptor. Alternatively, you could just accept the fact that attempting to perma-tackle in a 15 mil T2 fit interceptor is very risky business. Personally, I always considered that to be quite fair/sensible - you could make a interceptor highly survivable if you were not a cheapskate, while cheapskate unrigged fits were semi-disposable tacklers.
I do not think a 15 mil ship should keep me perma-tackled and at the same time removing its ability to be pimped (and removing its ability to survive in gang situations, where 5km/s is not going to provide enough capability to get to places fast / gtfo / create enough transversal to all targets in gang to work) is good. But w/e, it's not like, if I can be bothered to play post-patch, that I'll fly any bigger ships without a gang to start with.
Why CCP are balancing ships like interceptors to be better for solo while sucking for gangs is beyond me, however. Interceptors don't need sig tanking. It does not work for gangs.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
sliver 0xD
exiles.
The Kadeshi
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Posted - 2008.10.31 11:02:00 -
[47]
Edited by: sliver 0xD on 31/10/2008 11:03:29
Originally by: Crellion
Originally by: Kayosoni
CCP you have my blessing for this patch. The changes to speed will do wonders for making fleet fights fun again.
just wait and see.
No offence m8 but we are not all that into fleet fights, though I can't argue with you that it does buff blobing quite a bit.
Assuming you are the original Kayasoni though, with all the stuff your account has done in pvp I am somewhat surprised you still get kicks from blob v blob.
agree, more players that did blob now moved on and decided to go solo / small gang. it has more tractics and will show skill in the game.
however this patch hits these persons directly and helps the players that only know how to blob.
i find it disapointing that small gangs get hit hard by this and big blobs get a boost.
i still think that eve should leve more choice and not leave u with only 1 choice that is good.
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Somebody needs a hug! |
Jarne
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.10.31 12:04:00 -
[48]
You still have tiki bmp helping you out at the Vlillirier Roden Shipyards station ;)
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Success=Achievements/Expectations
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Crellion
Art of War
Exalted.
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Posted - 2008.10.31 16:36:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Kayosoni
What I mean is, to put it kind of vaguely, the current fleet warfare of bringing all BSs and some token support + dictors/hictors will not work after the patch. It will require much more fleet diversification. It's pretty obvious why and what's going to happen in fleet battles if you think about it for 10 minutes.
I am not arguing here. Just saying:
If the enemy 30 are 10 BSs 10 Reckons and 10 AFs and friendly 30 are 10 BSs 10 Reckons and 10 BSs with small guns and drones who will win?
I am not actually saying I will fit Mega with 150IIs x 8 or Ravens with 6xassault launchers but if I did and your fleet had 1AF pilot for every 1 stupid boy me BS we had,who would win??? (counting tanks and Heavy Neuts and drones). I think the above is a rhetorical question innit?
Now I have only the outmost respect for whoever has rubbed my face or my alt's face in the dirt once or twice allready in alliance pvp tourneys but I am still fairly sure that (a) CCP did not go far enough to make anything smaller than a BS better than a BS capsule for capsule (as opposed to isk v isk) (b) I dont think they will ever go that far.
I for one dont envision as much diversification coming out of this patch as you do but ...meh...
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Dizeezer Velar
Caldari
League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees
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Posted - 2008.10.31 16:46:00 -
[50]
Let me tell you how I see this patch helping diversification, as intended by Nozh.
Amarr pulse boats. Anything less, is inferior. Some pretty good diversity there dont you think?
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Poast Warrior
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.31 19:52:00 -
[51]
It really will be the best patch ever and will reduce lag 10 fold. Unfortunately that's because no one will be playing.
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Dizeezer Velar
Caldari
League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees
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Posted - 2008.10.31 20:51:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Poast Warrior
It really will be the best patch ever and will reduce lag 10 fold. Unfortunately that's because no one will be playing.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2008.10.31 20:53:00 -
[53]
I love this patch, puts a smile on my face the second i get todo anything eve related these days :)
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Boosters and PirateProfessions
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lebrata
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.10.31 20:58:00 -
[54]
Edited by: lebrata on 31/10/2008 21:04:32
Amaar BC fitted for range/tracking/dmg, gallente logistics, caldari ewar, and maybe a minmatar webber/tackler or two = The new "i-win" gang setup in eve.......
This nerf has reduced worthwhile ship options instead of expanding them.
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Dizeezer Velar
Caldari
League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees
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Posted - 2008.11.02 17:05:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
I love this patch, puts a smile on my face the second i get todo anything eve related these days :)
To be honest, this is a great patch for the noobies because it really boosts frigs and mid sized ships that do not take a whole lot of time to train up to fly effectively. It is a nerf to the older players who have invested alot of time into speccing BS sized hull ships.
So if you are a noobie, i can see you loving this patch.
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Crode
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Posted - 2008.11.02 19:33:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Dizeezer Velar
To be honest, this is a great patch for the noobies because it really boosts frigs and mid sized ships that do not take a whole lot of time to train up to fly effectively. It is a nerf to the older players who have invested alot of time into speccing BS sized hull ships.
So if you are a noobie, i can see you loving this patch.
That seems very true so far with what I have been reading. And it would be a good change. It give people like me (4 months training) something useful to do in PvP. New players don't want to train for 5 years to become something other than a one-shot target.
Now.. I am not saying I want to take out cruisers or battleships, but to be able to survive an encounter (run away) from anything bigger than what I am flying.
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Virgo I'Platonicus
Ex Eventus Corpi
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Posted - 2008.11.03 19:49:00 -
[57]
Totally agree with op :)
V.
<3 |
Q429
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Posted - 2008.11.04 04:32:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Q429 on 04/11/2008 04:35:40
Originally by: oilio
Edited by: oilio on 29/10/2008 21:15:09
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
it's a new game, really.
Indeed. Seems we're all about to have a New Gaming Experience!
sounds vaguely familiar...like a bad dream or....ZOMg i'm having flashbacks
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Art of War
Exalted.
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Posted - 2008.11.04 05:13:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Crode
That seems very true so far with what I have been reading. And it would be a good change. It give people like me (4 months training) something useful to do in PvP. New players don't want to train for 5 years to become something other than a one-shot target.
Now.. I am not saying I want to take out cruisers or battleships, but to be able to survive an encounter (run away) from anything bigger than what I am flying.
... because certainly when I was new to PVP I would never take ships like my Thorax out against carriers and battleships regardless of what else was there. Oh wait, I DID.
If you feel you're able to do nothing even in a frigate, you probably shouldn't worry so much about PVPing at this point. And don't worry - since the Heavy Neutraliser is the new FOTM module for BS, you'll still die just as bad as before ^^
----
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Muad' Dib
Gallente
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.11.04 12:31:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Kayosoni
Originally by: Veldya
Good for fleet fights, absolute **** for everything else.
honestly it's not really different from how it is now. battleships cannot hit frigs/cruisers, and since webs are 60% only, frigs webbed still have a chance to live, and cruisers webbed by battleships also still have a chance to live.
Want me to find frigs killed by battleships or even a t1 frig by your sieged moros's in low-sec on your own killboard or are you gonna ad the 'depends on case' line now ?
---
I smack just for myself.
[orange]Your signature is too large. Please resi |
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