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Egore Spangler
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Posted - 2008.10.29 18:17:00 -
[1]
Been away for a while and just started to re-reading the forums. I have seen references in threads that they will remove/alter local in 0.0 space.
Could someone please fill me in on whats been said and where please. 
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Zephyr Rengate
Caldari
dearg doom
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Posted - 2008.10.29 18:18:00 -
[2]
lazy.
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CrayC
Gallente
CrayC Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.29 18:23:00 -
[3]
don't feel like it.
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Spurty
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.29 18:25:00 -
[4]
stoopid idea serves only cloaked twits parked at a gate for 8 hours a day.
Man goes to the doc, with a strawberry growing out of his head. Doc says "I'll give you some cream to put on it." |
Khandara Seraphim
StarHunt
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.10.29 18:34:00 -
[5]
to answer the OP its in the stickied "zulupark answers everything!" threads at the top.
I personally think removing local's omniscience is a fabulous idea provided there is another intelgathering tool to make up for it.
Nobody should be able to log off every time somebody enters a system and thus rat in total safety.
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Kaar
Art of War
Exalted.
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Posted - 2008.10.29 18:41:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Spurty
stoopid idea serves only cloaked twits parked at a gate for 8 hours a day.
sup
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baltec1
R.U.S.T.
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Posted - 2008.10.29 18:48:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Kaar
Originally by: Spurty
stoopid idea serves only cloaked twits parked at a gate for 8 hours a day.
sup
dude shhh, you will scare away all the macro farmers/miners if you make too much noise
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Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar
Aeden
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Posted - 2008.10.29 18:54:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Khandara Seraphim
to answer the OP its in the stickied "zulupark answers everything!" threads at the top.
I personally think removing local's omniscience is a fabulous idea provided there is another intelgathering tool to make up for it.
Nobody should be able to log off every time somebody enters a system and thus rat in total safety.
It means hours of probing to me, anyway I'll adapt with resilience.
Fetchez la vache !
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Faife
Noctiscion
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Posted - 2008.10.29 19:10:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kaar
Originally by: Spurty
stoopid idea serves only cloaked twits parked at a gate for 8 hours a day.
sup
i totally read your alliance as eXceed
--
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Leeluvv
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.10.29 20:14:00 -
[10]
The concept is to change 0.0 local to delayed, so only those that speak appear in local, but it's an idea, not a patch.
Lee
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Sig to follow |
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Lustralis
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Posted - 2008.10.29 20:16:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Leeluvv
The concept is to change 0.0 local to delayed, so only those that speak appear in local, but it's an idea, not a patch.
Lee
and it's a dumb one.
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2008.10.29 20:22:00 -
[12]
There's nothing that's going in just yet, Zulupark has vaguely discussed moving local to delayed mode, but there hasn't even been a devblog and accompanying threadnaught about it yet, so we'll all just wait and see
_____________________
The unofficial faceless Achura alt of EVE Online
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Gonada
Priory Of The Lemon
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Posted - 2008.10.29 20:48:00 -
[13]
remove local, and have a way to find cloaked ships
Please, jump into traffic
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Etchyboy
Minmatar
Firman AB
101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.29 21:05:00 -
[14]
I am all for removal of local as long as the following are added.
1. give us a way to find cloakers.
2. All belts will have to be probed to find them.
3. Belts will get reset to a random location every few days.
4. When a probe is in use give us a way to detect it. After all this is a form of active sonar and as such should be detectable.
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Sebea
Bottomfeeders Science and Research
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Posted - 2008.10.29 21:07:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Gonada
remove local, and have a way to find cloaked ships
Unless they are supposed to cloak, otherwise, whats the point of fitting the mod, but this can all wait for the inevitable "NOOO MY FREE INTEL" whine thread, and the follow up "Cloaks are too strong, i can't shoot what i can't see" whines.
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Sebea
Bottomfeeders Science and Research
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Posted - 2008.10.29 21:09:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Etchyboy
I am all for removal of local as long as the following are added.
1. give us a way to find cloakers.
2. All belts will have to be probed to find them.
3. Belts will get reset to a random location every few days.
4. When a probe is in use give us a way to detect it. After all this is a form of active sonar and as such should be detectable.
holy crap you people are making me double post.
why should you get to find ships designed to cloak?
Also, do you not know how to use your scanner? I usually know within seconds of a hostile/neutral deploying probes in a system I'm in.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.29 21:24:00 -
[17]
Just to get this right, if you are in a system you press the scan button after every few seconds, and you dont have overview filtering enabled because otherwise you cant see probes. So if you are in a system with a bit more crap you look every few seconds through a list of 100 objects to check if there is a probe in it. Now do you think i believe you?
Are ravens supposed to cloak? And even ships that are supposed to cloak would still work fine if they can be probed down. Of course not when a 20 second scan gives you there exact position, but just make it a delayed position. If you are actually playing you still cant be found if you just move a bit arround, if you are afk you will eventually be found.
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Sebea
Bottomfeeders Science and Research
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Posted - 2008.10.29 21:48:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Just to get this right, if you are in a system you press the scan button after every few seconds, and you dont have overview filtering enabled because otherwise you cant see probes. So if you are in a system with a bit more crap you look every few seconds through a list of 100 objects to check if there is a probe in it. Now do you think i believe you?
Ever try organizing your scanner results in alphabetical order?
Stunning to think that such a simple act can make looking for scan probes easy, but its actually true.
I guess expecting you to know how a simple thing like your ship scanner works is a bit over the top on my part though 
Originally by: Furb Killer
Are ravens supposed to cloak?
No, and I agree that they should be able to be probed out, though I think it should take time
Originally by: Furb Killer
And even ships that are supposed to cloak would still work fine if they can be probed down. Of course not when a 20 second scan gives you there exact position, but just make it a delayed position. If you are actually playing you still cant be found if you just move a bit arround, if you are afk you will eventually be found.
No, leave cloaking ships alone, they are meant to be undetectable, leave them that way, ffs, do you people need everything in the game dumbed down to some inane level?
They have pathetic DPS, little to no actual ability to tank and still do their designed job, their only active defense is the cloak, which they shed at exactly the right moment to strike, then melt away into hiding again. Making them able to be probed essentially makes them useless, and if you say otherwise, you've never spent any time doing the things a recon is supposed to do.
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Luciat
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Posted - 2008.10.29 22:30:00 -
[19]
I for one will never rat or mine again if the delayed local gets introduced.
I will however stock up on Stelath bombers and recons and never fly a non-cloaking ship agian.
I will then hit 0.0 and sit in belts with friends waiting for the ratters to blissfully rat, whilst spamming the scan button and not finding us because we are cloaked, then OMGWTFBBQ them and cloak up again.
If acts of agression force you to appear in local, simply jump to the next system, rinse and repeat.
Unbalanced? Youbetchya!
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baltec1
R.U.S.T.
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Posted - 2008.10.29 22:49:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Luciat
I for one will never rat or mine again if the delayed local gets introduced.
I will however stock up on Stelath bombers and recons and never fly a non-cloaking ship agian.
I will then hit 0.0 and sit in belts with friends waiting for the ratters to blissfully rat, whilst spamming the scan button and not finding us because we are cloaked, then OMGWTFBBQ them and cloak up again.
If acts of agression force you to appear in local, simply jump to the next system, rinse and repeat.
Unbalanced? Youbetchya!
And everyone docking up because I turn up in local isnt unbalanced?
This change will just sort out the aware from the nubs.
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Takon Orlani
Caldari
Chaos Monkeys
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Posted - 2008.10.29 22:49:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Spurty
stoopid idea serves only cloaked twits parked at a gate for 8 hours a day.
This.
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Luciat
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Posted - 2008.10.29 22:53:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Luciat on 29/10/2008 22:53:48
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Luciat
I for one will never rat or mine again if the delayed local gets introduced.
I will however stock up on Stelath bombers and recons and never fly a non-cloaking ship agian.
I will then hit 0.0 and sit in belts with friends waiting for the ratters to blissfully rat, whilst spamming the scan button and not finding us because we are cloaked, then OMGWTFBBQ them and cloak up again.
If acts of agression force you to appear in local, simply jump to the next system, rinse and repeat.
Unbalanced? Youbetchya!
Quote:
And everyone docking up because I turn up in local isnt unbalanced?
This change will just sort out the aware from the nubs.
Of course it is balanced..
You know they are there.. they know you are there.. perfect balance
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baltec1
R.U.S.T.
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Posted - 2008.10.29 22:58:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Luciat
And everyone docking up because I turn up in local isnt unbalanced?
This change will just sort out the aware from the nubs.
Of course it is balanced..
You know they are there.. they know you are there.. perfect balance
Its about as balanced as paining a B2 bomber bright pink and dumping a big flashing stobe on it...
The current system makes it impossible to make suprise attacks in a ship designed to make suprise attacks!
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Aurelio Baran
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.29 23:05:00 -
[24]
I will be excited when people in 0.0, who can no longer rat or mine without getting popped everyday, resort to buying GTCs and selling em for even more inflated prices. I for one will be doing just that.
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Neesa Corrinne
Rogue Shadow Squad
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.29 23:10:00 -
[25]
People will whine, moan and puke about it. Some will fake ragequit with all eleventy billion of their accounts.
In the end, they will rub both of their brain cells together and figure out a way to keep ratting and mining in 0.0 even without an instantly available intelligence report.
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Luciat
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Posted - 2008.10.29 23:11:00 -
[26]
The current proposed (Highly speculated) system would tip the scales heavily towards the attacker.
Even without local, I would have a fairly good idea that outpost/station systems would have a decent population, allowing me to plan attacks and sneak in undetected.
As a filthy carebear, you would need to rely heavily on scouts on gates, and them not falling asleep at their post, as well as spamming the bajeezus outta the scan button, and still not finding anyone.
As I said, this will be a PVPers wet dream.. and a carebear/ratter/miners worst nightmare.
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Aurelio Baran
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.29 23:12:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Aurelio Baran on 29/10/2008 23:12:31
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
People will whine, moan and puke about it. Some will fake ragequit with all eleventy billion of their accounts.
In the end, they will rub both of their brain cells together and figure out a way to keep ratting and mining in 0.0 even without an instantly available intelligence report.
Buying and selling GTCs. Problem solved. Also, inflating prices.
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Neesa Corrinne
Rogue Shadow Squad
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.29 23:18:00 -
[28]
People never bother to research this crap before they run to the forums to whine.
They specifically stated that a major overhaul to how scanning works would accompany the changes to local.
I'm guessing that they will go with what I proposed almost a year ago: Passive Scanning. Your ship will constantly scan on it's own and warn you when it detects an approaching ship on scan.
Make this chance based and modified by the incoming ships signature radius, and voila carebears can keep carebearing with relative safety instead of complete and total immunity.
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Aeo IV
Amarr
Xomic OmniCorporation
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Posted - 2008.10.30 00:28:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
People never bother to research this crap before they run to the forums to whine.
They specifically stated that a major overhaul to how scanning works would accompany the changes to local.
I'm guessing that they will go with what I proposed almost a year ago: Passive Scanning. Your ship will constantly scan on it's own and warn you when it detects an approaching ship on scan.
ccp is going to need to drop the scanner change about 6 months before the local change, so we can all get use to using it, and point out how they haven't successfully fixed the problem
Quote:
Make this chance based and modified by the incoming ships signature radius, and voila carebears can keep carebearing with relative safety instead of complete and total immunity.
The real problem imo, is that pirates whine far too much, then wonder why no one goes to low sec any more.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Infinity Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.10.30 00:28:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Sebea
Originally by: Etchyboy
I am all for removal of local as long as the following are added.
1. give us a way to find cloakers.
2. All belts will have to be probed to find them.
3. Belts will get reset to a random location every few days.
4. When a probe is in use give us a way to detect it. After all this is a form of active sonar and as such should be detectable.
holy crap you people are making me double post.
why should you get to find ships designed to cloak?
Also, do you not know how to use your scanner? I usually know within seconds of a hostile/neutral deploying probes in a system I'm in.
because 9 in 10 cloakers are rattign ravens not recons. Those should not be imune FOREVER.
PRobign a cloaked ship shoudl take LONG time but shoudl be doable. PRobign a recon shoudl take like 30 minutes to 1 hour, so you can hunt that ship you know is there semi AFK. CCP stated thousands of times they do not want anyone to play afk.
Cloak shoudl give you security for a few minutes (like 10min) on a non cloaker and a long time in a cloaker.
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If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Sebea
Bottomfeeders Science and Research
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Posted - 2008.10.30 00:37:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
because 9 in 10 cloakers are rattign ravens not recons. Those should not be imune FOREVER.
PRobign a cloaked ship shoudl take LONG time but shoudl be doable. PRobign a recon shoudl take like 30 minutes to 1 hour, so you can hunt that ship you know is there semi AFK. CCP stated thousands of times they do not want anyone to play afk.
Cloak shoudl give you security for a few minutes (like 10min) on a non cloaker and a long time in a cloaker.
Sometimes I may be asked to sit on a jump bridge for 2 weeks, noting traffic patterns in the system, heaviest times of use, ect.
Sometimes my job may be to simply sit in local, and note the traffic patterns of the entire system, or your particular station, to sit and watch, looking for any particularly juicy targets, and then finding their habits and practices.
Its called doing recon on a target, oddly enough, you do that IN A RECON.
The ships ability to do that shouldn't be hampered cause your upset somebody is in local...oh wait, local will be delayed, so as long as I keep my mouth shut, you should never know I'm there doing that (as it should be) and so you should no longer have complaints about afk cloakers in local.
The point is, its often a thankless job that sometimes takes days, weeks, even a month for solid intel to appear in a pattern form. Allowing the scanning of recons and covops makes this job nigh impossible.
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Apeshit
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Posted - 2008.10.30 00:53:00 -
[32]
In the Eve universe... what technology tells you who is
in system? In high sec - I can imagine these governments demand the right to know everybody is?
Can or would systems in null sec afford/want or desire a technology that automatically tells all players their locations. In all the movies/series these lawless areas arewhere the badguys live.
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Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.30 01:39:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 30/10/2008 01:39:15
An exceptionally stupid idea advocated by non-thinking fools.
If Local is removed, then it must be replaced with something AT LEAST as functional and user friendly.
Doubt me???
.....then do you really think CCP is going casually throw away all the work they've done in the last three+ years to develope 0.0 into warring player empires?
Think about it.....
This whole issue is one of the reason I support opening new space that is seperate from the existing 0.0, low sec and high sec.
Play nice while you butcher each other.
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Sebea
Bottomfeeders Science and Research
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Posted - 2008.10.30 03:31:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Sergeant Spot
An exceptionally stupid idea advocated by non-thinking fools.
Thanks, were thinking of you too
Originally by: Sergeant Spot
If Local is removed, then it must be replaced with something AT LEAST as functional and user friendly.
Why? Why should you get that much info for free? How can you argue that it doesn't ruin roaming by letting everyone in system know your there as soon as you arrive? Whats the point of roaming currently? Jump in, your in local, hit scanner, raven on scan, warp to his belt, halfway there he cloaks or drops off scanner, only to log off, or re-appear on scan in a POS.
THAT IS LAME, AND TO FIRE YOUR OWN LINE BACK AT YOU: An exceptionally stupid idea advocated by non-thinking fools
Originally by: Sergeant Spot
.....then do you really think CCP is going casually throw away all the work they've done in the last three+ years to develope 0.0 into warring player empires?
How would putting local in delayed mode hurt this? What base do you make this argument from? What, everybody's name doesn't show up so its no longer populated feeling? TBH the local smack would likely drop a good bit from it
Originally by: Sergeant Spot
This whole issue is one of the reason I support opening new space that is seperate from the existing 0.0, low sec and high sec.
This is a whole different issue, and I agree that this would also be a good idea, kinda round out the map of eve into a more spherical shape instead of the "dinner plate" disk of stars that it is now (yes, i know, put the map in 3-d, but its still basically disk shaped)
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Weirda
Minmatar
Queens of the Stone Age
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Posted - 2008.10.30 03:33:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Kaar
Originally by: Spurty
stoopid idea serves only cloaked twits parked at a gate for 8 hours a day.
sup
o/ Kaar (Weirda miss you!)
__
weirda |
Tallonn Dex
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Posted - 2008.10.30 03:39:00 -
[36]
I am really a bit worried about Local being removed/jacked with in 0.0.
Shouldn't CCP be doing something to try to entice high-sec folks to come to low-sec - not discourage them? This change is not one of the things that is going to entice more folks to 0.0, in my opinion. For gankers/pirates, it will be a blast of course. :)
Hopefully CCP will soon be able to go into more detail about the scanning changes that really need to happen hand-in-hand with any sort of "Local" removal. If they are basically going to make it so you have to skill-up certain skills to get a similar level of intel we can get now with Local, then that will be interesting to see.
Cautiously optimistic.
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Katherine Marx
Muff Diving
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Posted - 2008.10.30 03:42:00 -
[37]
prototype cloaking devices and improved cloaking devices have a 60 second activation limit and a 300 second re-activation delay. finding ratting ravens problem solved. (change activation times and re-activation times to something more balanced maybe)
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Sebea
Bottomfeeders Science and Research
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Posted - 2008.10.30 03:53:00 -
[38]
I'll hit you both at once, to save space
Originally by: Tallonn Dex
Shouldn't CCP be doing something to try to entice high-sec folks to come to low-sec - not discourage them? This change is not one of the things that is going to entice more folks to 0.0, in my opinion. For gankers/pirates, it will be a blast of course. :)
First, he said 0.0, not lowsec. Nobody has mentioned making local delayed in lowsec, just 0.0.
Second, wtf is with the term "ganker", its like, omg, he's pvping in a pvp centric game, he's a ganker! It has tons of tactical applications beyond ratting, like recons actually doing recon unseen, preparing for attacks and such, gathering intel, ninja ratting/mining with active scouts (something small corps could more easily get away with post change).
But also patrols lead by the holders of the space, raiders going into neighboring space for quick hits, the possiblities are pretty nice
Originally by: Katherine Marx
prototype cloaking devices and improved cloaking devices have a 60 second activation limit and a 300 second re-activation delay. finding ratting ravens problem solved. (change activation times and re-activation times to something more balanced maybe)
So your basically taking a huge dump on Stealth Bombers and Black Ops saying they can only stay cloaked for 60 seconds?
Also it doesn't fix the "warp to pos", "warp to safe and log", "warp to station and dock" or any of the other things that ruin roaming in 0.0
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Tyler Rainez
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.30 03:59:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Sebea
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
because 9 in 10 cloakers are rattign ravens not recons. Those should not be imune FOREVER.
PRobign a cloaked ship shoudl take LONG time but shoudl be doable. PRobign a recon shoudl take like 30 minutes to 1 hour, so you can hunt that ship you know is there semi AFK. CCP stated thousands of times they do not want anyone to play afk.
Cloak shoudl give you security for a few minutes (like 10min) on a non cloaker and a long time in a cloaker.
Sometimes I may be asked to sit on a jump bridge for 2 weeks, noting traffic patterns in the system, heaviest times of use, ect.
Sometimes my job may be to simply sit in local, and note the traffic patterns of the entire system, or your particular station, to sit and watch, looking for any particularly juicy targets, and then finding their habits and practices.
Its called doing recon on a target, oddly enough, you do that IN A RECON.
The ships ability to do that shouldn't be hampered cause your upset somebody is in local...oh wait, local will be delayed, so as long as I keep my mouth shut, you should never know I'm there doing that (as it should be) and so you should no longer have complaints about afk cloakers in local.
The point is, its often a thankless job that sometimes takes days, weeks, even a month for solid intel to appear in a pattern form. Allowing the scanning of recons and covops makes this job nigh impossible.
I agree that a delayed local in 0.0 is The Right Thing to do, with or without the automatic scanning. But I also feel that cloakers (yes even recons), should not be immune to being found. Trying to balance a game like Eve is a gigantic undertaking, but there something that everyone seems to be forgetting. The only 100% safe place should be inside a station. That's it. No where else. Cloakers should not be immune to being found.
Now I'm also in favor of making it extremly difficult to find cloakers as well, just make it balanced. It's quite unfair for someone to show up in local and sit 8 hours afk cloaked and have no reprocussions. I'm sorry but when someone does that, just shows the game is unbalanced.
Since there are recon ships, designed for cloaking there should be a ship designed to find them. With that in mind a raven, mega, etc.. cloaked should be able to be found, say in 5 mins. A cloaked ship? maybe 30 mins tops. This would make, what I believe (and many others as well) a balanced game. A recon ship can still do it's job, it just has to keep moving to avoid detection, simple and effective without getting nerf'd. All the while preventing full safety outside of station and making people play instead of being afk.
My 0.02 isk
I only have two things in this world, my word and my balls and I don't break'em for nobody! -- Tony Montana |
Yunii
Gallente
Black Serpent Technologies
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.10.30 04:05:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Yunii on 30/10/2008 04:06:37
Originally by: Etchyboy
I am all for removal of local as long as the following are added.
1. give us a way to find cloakers.
2. All belts will have to be probed to find them.
3. Belts will get reset to a random location every few days.
4. When a probe is in use give us a way to detect it. After all this is a form of active sonar and as such should be detectable.
1) Any ship should be able to be detected, even if its hard. make anything but the Cov-Ops cloak use Cap & much longer re-cloaking times on anything but the Cov-Ops cloaks.
System scanners should be able to locate Prototype and Improved cloakers but not the Cov-Ops cloakers.
Cov-Ops could be located with the use of lvl 5 probes only, ie Obsevators or a New type of probe that requires a couple lvl 5's to use, Astro, pin-pointing, triangulation, etc.. They want to cloak and go afk they should be able to be found.
If they are actively moving around it's still a lot harder to catch them.
2&3) Use the ship scanner to find the belts, like the Cos Anom scanner. Every ship can use it, doesn't require a lot of skill. The belts should move every day, tbh. But still be around the planets they are on.
4) Unless the prober gets lucky with the long distance probes, you can see the shorter range probes on your ship scanner. They can't be hidden. The probes can even be probed out by other probes. 
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Originally by: CCP Arkanon
I think this thread also illustrates perfectly that we neither censor nor do we try to silence our customers. |
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Sebea
Bottomfeeders Science and Research
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Posted - 2008.10.30 05:08:00 -
[41]
See, i see alot of you talking about the improved cloak and making ships that fit it able to be probed out quickly.
That would pretty much take any use that stealth bombers and black ops BS have or may gain and flush them right down the drain.
IF, and that's a big a** IF, they let cov ops/black ops/SB/Recons get probed down, it should be hard, like really hard to get an accurate hit, like 20-30km should be the closest you can get, and that's IF its sitting still, if its moving, it should be nigh impossible.
Short of that, you should just remove the cloaking ships from the game as your totally breaking them otherwise, because their job becomes impossible:
"oop, saw a falcon jump in system, start scanning" 10 minutes later the falcon pilot is dead, or the cov ops, or the ...well you get the picture.
No, it shouldn't be safe anywhere in the game, but the few ships (Stealth Bombers, Black Ops, Cov Ops, and Covert Recons) should ALWAYS be able to perform their basic function of lurking without the near constant threat of being found.
What good is a Black Ops battleship if it can't sit cloaked? It can't warp cloaked, so its only moving so far, once probed on a grid, it would literally be a matter of seconds (likely 30 or less) till a half way talented force decloaked and blew it up, and its ITS JOB TO HIDE. If you did your real job that well, I'm sure they'd fire you inside the hour.
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Dr EVile
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Posted - 2008.10.30 06:45:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Dr EVile on 30/10/2008 06:55:05
I really hope they remove local chat channel.
Very cheesy you can automatic always know who is in system with no scanning.
Anyone who says it just benefits cloakers if removed is beyond me. Cloaking gold farmers would be at a MUCH greater risk not always knowing if someone jumps into system as soon as they jump into system. I think it would be a nice improvement removing local chat, or removing the ability to see who is listed in channel.
For the crybabies, o noo you have to work using a scanner LIKE YOU SHOULD HAVE TO. Quit the crying.
EVE is supposed to be hardcore and realistic but has the hello kitty local chat so you can always know when someone jumps into system.
Please remove local chat.
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sg3s
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.30 06:49:00 -
[43]
Not this again.
Originally by: Tarminic
Because even when EVE sucks, it sucks less than every other MMO out there.
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Dr EVile
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Posted - 2008.10.30 06:50:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Dr EVile on 30/10/2008 06:53:06
Edited by: Dr EVile on 30/10/2008 06:52:32
Originally by: Luciat
I for one will never rat or mine again if the delayed local gets introduced.
I will however stock up on Stelath bombers and recons and never fly a non-cloaking ship agian.
I will then hit 0.0 and sit in belts with friends waiting for the ratters to blissfully rat, whilst spamming the scan button and not finding us because we are cloaked, then OMGWTFBBQ them and cloak up again.
If acts of agression force you to appear in local, simply jump to the next system, rinse and repeat.
Unbalanced? Youbetchya!
Unbalanced? Just group and rat solo, wait for stealthers like you, as soon as you show yourself have all the groupies warp in and splat, one squashed stealth. NOT having local cheat channel would HURT cloakers doing this ganking because you can't be sure if that ratter is alone.
Not unbalanced. Tactics>cloaking gankers
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InSession
Minmatar Mafia
Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.10.30 07:06:00 -
[45]
I see this as good and bad, and mind you I am talking from my perspective, which is PvP.
Good:
- No longer will people be warping or logging off as soon as I enter local.
- Being cloaked now will actually be covert
- Possibly more kills to be had
- No more AFK ratting, no more macro ratting?
Bad:
- People afraid of ratting in 0.0
- People aligning while ratting, so as soon as I find them they just warp
- L4 Empire missions are even more safer now, 0.0 isn't worth it.
---------------
I hope CCP can make it so that 0.0 is worth the risk, or tone done Empire missions a bit. I'm for the removal of local though, because I <3 scouting.
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sg3s
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.30 07:28:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Dr EVile
Tactics>cloaking gankers>pilots trying to make money
Fixed it for you.
Originally by: Tarminic
Because even when EVE sucks, it sucks less than every other MMO out there.
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Asa Sigrun
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Posted - 2008.10.30 08:43:00 -
[47]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Luciat
I for one will never rat or mine again if the delayed local gets introduced.
I will however stock up on Stelath bombers and recons and never fly a non-cloaking ship agian.
I will then hit 0.0 and sit in belts with friends waiting for the ratters to blissfully rat, whilst spamming the scan button and not finding us because we are cloaked, then OMGWTFBBQ them and cloak up again.
If acts of agression force you to appear in local, simply jump to the next system, rinse and repeat.
Unbalanced? Youbetchya!
And everyone docking up because I turn up in local isnt unbalanced?
This change will just sort out the aware from the nubs.
you're right CCP doesnt want new players anyway.
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baltec1
R.U.S.T.
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Posted - 2008.10.30 09:38:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Asa Sigrun
Originally by: baltec1
you're right CCP doesnt want new players anyway.
They can learn?
If people are not willing to protect themselves and work together then they deserve what they get.
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Pandora Pirinello
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Posted - 2008.10.30 09:41:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Pandora Pirinello on 30/10/2008 09:42:06
Put a 20 second delay on membership to local, its enough
There will be real RISK in 0.0 carebearing, so buffing the isk it generates isnt a bad thing, make it more profitable than running level 4s at least.....
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Druadan
Aristotle Enterprises
Chances of Misfortune
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Posted - 2008.10.30 09:52:00 -
[50]
I support the removal of local from 0.0, but only systems without sovereignty. With the exception of unsovereigned systems in constellations that have constellation sovereignty.
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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Fulber
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Posted - 2008.10.30 10:05:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Pandora Pirinello
Edited by: Pandora Pirinello on 30/10/2008 09:42:06
Put a 20 second delay on membership to local, its enough
There will be real RISK in 0.0 carebearing, so buffing the isk it generates isnt a bad thing, make it more profitable than running level 4s at least.....
That's right, because there's no risk involved in claiming space in the first place, right? |
Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2008.10.30 11:32:00 -
[52]
It is going to be hilarious when an alliance member spend time and probes to sneak up upon... a fellow alliance member.
----------------
Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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RedSplat
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.10.30 11:34:00 -
[53]
Only Recons, covops, SB's and Blackops should be able to cloak indefinitely. They should NEVER be able to be probed out.
End of as far as i am concerned; i don't even think 'normal' ships should be able to cloak.
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.30 11:37:00 -
[54]
Originally by: InSession
Bad:
- People afraid of ratting in 0.0
- People aligning while ratting, so as soon as I find them they just warp
Doesn't those two sort of contradict each other?
In fact I see removal of local as a boost for my solo operations in low sec. I know everybody are hostiles as I have no friends, and as I know very well how the scanner work in can work in safety if not unnoticed.
----------------
Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Infinity Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.10.30 11:41:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Kagura Nikon on 30/10/2008 11:42:01
Originally by: Sebea
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
because 9 in 10 cloakers are rattign ravens not recons. Those should not be imune FOREVER.
PRobign a cloaked ship shoudl take LONG time but shoudl be doable. PRobign a recon shoudl take like 30 minutes to 1 hour, so you can hunt that ship you know is there semi AFK. CCP stated thousands of times they do not want anyone to play afk.
Cloak shoudl give you security for a few minutes (like 10min) on a non cloaker and a long time in a cloaker.
Sometimes I may be asked to sit on a jump bridge for 2 weeks, noting traffic patterns in the system, heaviest times of use, ect.
Sometimes my job may be to simply sit in local, and note the traffic patterns of the entire system, or your particular station, to sit and watch, looking for any particularly juicy targets, and then finding their habits and practices.
Its called doing recon on a target, oddly enough, you do that IN A RECON.
The ships ability to do that shouldn't be hampered cause your upset somebody is in local...oh wait, local will be delayed, so as long as I keep my mouth shut, you should never know I'm there doing that (as it should be) and so you should no longer have complaints about afk cloakers in local.
The point is, its often a thankless job that sometimes takes days, weeks, even a month for solid intel to appear in a pattern form. Allowing the scanning of recons and covops makes this job nigh impossible.
You miss the point. You are makign recon, then you are not afk.. otherwise you are a horrible recon.
Some way to implementa the detaction coudl be that you need to use spacial probe tha take slogner. And he wil land you in the same grid as the cloaked ship. Then you can deploy another special probbe.. that wil take like 5 min to find him and give you a warp in around 10 km so you can manually look for him.
If you are not afk you can easily evade that with both hands at your back and pilotingwith your nose.
But the serius issues are think like TITANS staying cloaked for dozens of hours. That is plain STUPID. Don't een think capitals shoudl be able to cloak.
-------------------------------------------------
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Infinity Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.10.30 11:44:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Druadan
Edited by: Druadan on 30/10/2008 10:29:56
I support the removal of local from 0.0, but only systems without sovereignty. With the exception of unsovereigned systems in constellations that have constellation sovereignty.
Edit:
As an addendum to that, large fleets should show up on the solar system map as a hazy coloured blob or something, to show the presence of a huge compound signature.
taht is somethign that can be achieved by for example the POS system scanner. Make it able to provide local for people in the POS :) And be able to probe cloaked ships.
-------------------------------------------------
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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BiggestT
Caldari
Space Oddysey
Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.30 12:03:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Khandara Seraphim
Nobody should be able to log off every time somebody enters a system and thus rat in total safety.
U realise that they wont know if some1 enters system? lol
EVE history
Missiles post-nerf |
sliver 0xD
exiles.
The Kadeshi
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Posted - 2008.10.30 13:08:00 -
[58]
this will defenetly give a nasty twist to the game.
at one point i like the control the local gives me. nobody in local i am safe.
but on the other side i realy like to sneak up on the cloaking macro raven and finaly send his cheating ass back to hell for ever!
---
Somebody needs a hug! |
OneSock
Crown Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.30 13:55:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Leeluvv
The concept is to change 0.0 local to delayed, so only those that speak appear in local,
Should only apply to covert ops, recons (maybe), stealth bombers, black ops.
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Escrava Isaura
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Posted - 2008.10.30 14:50:00 -
[60]
- remove local
- add passive scanning (maybe increase the max scan range, 20AU or something)
- increase the start locking delay on ships able to use the covert-ops cloaking by alot (they will still be perfect for gattering intel and making slings but this way it wont make the belts empty, and they will still do their job in gangs but it gives a reason to use combat recons for that)
- remove the ability to fit cloaks on ships without a bonus to that module
- reduce the time needed to probe plexes
- reduce high-sec isk to balance the 0.0 increased risk
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Zurrar
Gallente
Universal Exports
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.10.30 18:17:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Luciat
I for one will never rat or mine again if the delayed local gets introduced.
I will however stock up on Stelath bombers and recons and never fly a non-cloaking ship agian.
I will then hit 0.0 and sit in belts with friends waiting for the ratters to blissfully rat, whilst spamming the scan button and not finding us because we are cloaked, then OMGWTFBBQ them and cloak up again.
If acts of agression force you to appear in local, simply jump to the next system, rinse and repeat.
Unbalanced? Youbetchya!
thats what those ships really are meant to do
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Plim
Gallente
Oursulaert Technology Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.30 19:02:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Zurrar
Originally by: Luciat
I for one will never rat or mine again if the delayed local gets introduced.
I will however stock up on Stelath bombers and recons and never fly a non-cloaking ship agian.
I will then hit 0.0 and sit in belts with friends waiting for the ratters to blissfully rat, whilst spamming the scan button and not finding us because we are cloaked, then OMGWTFBBQ them and cloak up again.
If acts of agression force you to appear in local, simply jump to the next system, rinse and repeat.
Unbalanced? Youbetchya!
thats what those ships really are meant to do
Correct, they were supposd to unbalance the game. Wait what...
EVE 'Megacorp or STFU' Online |
Egore Spangler
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Posted - 2008.11.01 09:46:00 -
[63]
As the op to this post, my view is really the only one that counts!.
The removal of the free intel channel that is local will indeed make 0.0 space the dangrous place it SHOULD be. All views counter to this are rubbish!.
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Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.11.01 11:06:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 01/11/2008 11:07:42
Let me see if I understand this right.....
The folks advocating removing local WITHOUT replacing with an equally effect and user friendly tool believe that in order to securely refuel a POS three jumps away, a 0.0 industry player flying one hauler should need an escort of 20 combat ships?
If thats what you are saying, then you fail. You are demanding CCP throw away all their 0.0 work for the last 3 years. Ain't gonna happen.
However, if that is NOT what you are saying, then explain how many combat fitted pvp ships a single industrial player would need as escort refuel his POS three jumps away.
And REMEMBER: ANYTHING that turns simple POS refueling into a major operation is the same thing as CCP throwing away all their work from the last 3 years.
If you really want the change, suggust to CCP that they open some new space where local does not work, and designed so no one ever has any warning that someone is hunting them. But don't expect the existing 0.0 to made into such space. Ain't gonna happen.
Edit:
Yes, refueling a POS in "contested" space already is a major operation. But at any given moment, maybe 2% of 0.0 is "contested".
Play nice while you butcher each other.
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Schalac
Caldari
Apocalypse Reign
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Posted - 2008.11.01 11:06:00 -
[65]
I agree with the removal of local in all sec. I also would like better probes that will scan out cloaked ships. I also wish for a wider margin of distance that you can spawn in a new system after jumping from anywhere between 15-60 km from the gate, randomly picked when you enter the new system. I would like to see pod pilots as NPCs that once you go below -5 security status bounty agents will give you a mission, with the pilots last known location as the way-point, to go and kill them. I would like to see bounty agents. There is more but I need more beer.
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Dirtee Girl
Omega Enterprises
0mega Factor
|
Posted - 2008.11.01 11:13:00 -
[66]
yeah local in 0.0 needs to go newer better probes can be helpfull , honestly local in 0.0 is kinda lame
the idea that you should be able to reap the benefits of 0.0 life without the risk is laughable ....but if somebody does rat in the belts i think 0.0 rat bounties should be revised upwards to reflect the added danger
*
* |
RedSplat
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.11.01 11:15:00 -
[67]
Edited by: RedSplat on 01/11/2008 11:15:18
Given CCP might de-couple sovereignty from POS you might not want to overblow how much of an issue refueling is going to be in a delayed local 0.0.
0.0 should be dangerous and unpredictable. IN alliance held space it is far from that unless there is a major war going on- even then danger is limited to small areas. There are as many carebears in nullsec as there are in empire 
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Mankirks Wife
|
Posted - 2008.11.01 11:51:00 -
[68]
I think removing local is a dandy idea but only if there's some intel tool to replace it.
If they just turn local into a delayed-mode channel in 0.0 without doing anything else, you can expect any kind of small non-combat op to disappear overnight. As was said above, unless you can totally lock down a system (which basically means at least a scout on every gate) any kind of non-pvp op, even ratting, will vanish overnight unless being done with a massive escort.
I can see mining, especially, completely going away since a barge can't get up to warp speed fast enough to escape someone who just decloaked on top of them, even if they're aligned first. I also think ratting would suddenly become a group activity.
---
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Acedias
Infusion.
G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.11.01 11:59:00 -
[69]
Yayy remove local!
Another few features I feel would greatly improve my game immersion would be if autopilot was removed, and the map could only show a certain range of systems in each direction. Or only systems you had visited? Super Metroid style, with the prophecy as samus's ship.
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Blondieonsum
Servant's of order
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Posted - 2008.11.01 12:23:00 -
[70]
REMOVE LOCAL, REMOVE FARMERS, JOB DONE! PVP IS A GO!
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2008.11.01 13:01:00 -
[71]
Quote:
Now something constructive for a change,
the best idea ive seen in this thread to replace the current local imo, is to integrate a ships sensor strength in the scanning process, which itself then shows you more or less what is going on in your system.
I like using the sensor strength for the scanning as it gives certain ships such as covert ops, recons, EAF but also Hacs and battleships an advantage in scanning ships over interceptors, interdictors, cruisers etc.
With this implemented some ships are better for scouting, when ratting bigger ships such as battleships see enemie ships faster - but at the same time when ratting with an assault frigate you warp faster.
When mining a rorqual with its strong sensor strength will be very useful for protection as well.
Eccms will be a whole lot more important, this will solve the debate about falcons being overpowered.
The question is how to create a new system from the theory.
An idea i had was to use the system map as a ground layer and the ships sensor strength used to dictate a scanners maximum reach.
On this system map every ship emits a signal depending on its signature radius. A signal from a cruisersized signature radius, as example, could then create a 1AU radius on the system map which the onboard scanner can scan when in range.
With a bigger signal from a bigger signature radius you will have a signal radius, as example when a cruisersized signature radius produces a 1Au signal radius, a battleship would produce a 4AU Signal radius - which is, of course, is more likely in range of a onboard scanner.
Now for fleets you could let signals add up when in range to each other,
no matter if friend or fo, thus creating a bigger signal radius which can be scanned from further away.
I honestly am not sure if a signal radius should appear where the ship is, so you would see where ships are just as youd do when probing more or less, or if the map should just tell you that ou have company around, but without any information to the whereabouts.
Id prefer signals to have a minimum strength of 1AU,
when one signal overlaps with another they become one 2AU signal radius which middle lies inbetween the two previous signals, provided signals will show the originating ships location.
* When such a signal is scanned it would be appropiate to show how strong the signal is, altho the infos should be kept vague otherwise its too easy to predict an enemies ship etc.
* Scanner should never fail to see a signal, if in range - otherwise you have ceptors on top of you before you know it.
The whole point is that bigger ships are seen from further away then smaller ships.
*
When a battleships has a 4AU signal radius, which is a 10 seconds guess and will have to be balanced, a fleets signal radius of 50 battleships shouldnt be 4*50 but more like maybe 25AU or something sane.
*
I think it would be reasonable to increase the lock delay after uncloaking, a big increasement for normal and another 5seconds maybe for cov ops cloaks. In change cloaked ships have a minimum singal radius.
* The signal radius`s should be liveupdated, or every few secs automaticly on your system scanner, this way miner and ratter can keep the system map open and keep on with their business.
Some sort of out of system map warning when a new signal was detected should be implemented, too.
thats it, excuse me when i forgot some stuff, its 5 in the mornin here. Feel free to take the post and change it as much as you like.
A local change is a chance to make the game so much more interesting, when you have accepted that ccp will change the local - rather then complaining that they will, think of something youd like to see the local become instead.
-
Boosters and PirateProfessions
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SunTzuCsu
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.01 13:39:00 -
[72]
I have no faith that CCP would give us a system to replace local, that wasn't overly complicated and time consuming.
The player base dvocating the removal of local, seem to dismiss the extra time involved in travel or any sort of action that would take place in space, if it was removed.
I play eve because it's a game I like (atm) although there are many aspects of this game, that make it a chore.
I have removed myself from those aspects, but this change just gets forced on you whether you like it or not.
My time is not infinite, and the time I do spend playing the game, I would actually like to play in PvP, not in the quest to find said PvP with countless scan requests or however CCP deem fit.
You can bet your ass it'll be substandard and take 3 or 4 times longer.
But it's my opinion and it doesn't count for much I guess.
There are just so many consequences with the removal of local, some of which we haven't yet envisaged.
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Korizan
|
Posted - 2008.11.01 13:52:00 -
[73]
No Local.
Deep Observer Probes and target using drones (even in a deadspace)
That means jump in and 20 seconds later you have a hit on there drones.
And if they are in a dead space pocket it is even better cause you can actually be off by several thousand km's and still warp right too them.
Why because it will dump you right @ the gate.
CCP has several items that need to be fixed before they even start removing or delaying local.
And this was proved as fact not more then 2 days ago.
And they already stated they are going to change the scanning system if they even delay it.
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RedSplat
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.11.01 13:54:00 -
[74]
Originally by: SunTzuCsu
 I wont be safe anymore
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SunTzuCsu
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.01 15:25:00 -
[75]
Originally by: RedSplat
Originally by: SunTzuCsu
I wont be safe anymore
Bless, you changed my post for something I never said, that's so clever.
The rolling eyes gif was a stroke of genius, well done.
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RedSplat
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.11.01 15:55:00 -
[76]
Originally by: SunTzuCsu
Originally by: RedSplat
Originally by: SunTzuCsu
I wont be safe anymore
Bless, you changed my post for something I never said, that's so clever.
The rolling eyes gif was a stroke of genius, well done.
Look Mom, I'm being facetious
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Rhadamantine
Game Community
|
Posted - 2008.11.01 15:58:00 -
[77]
Originally by: RedSplat
Look Mom, I'm being facetious
You got burned that's for sure.
Regards.
Rhadamantine. |
RedSplat
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.11.01 16:01:00 -
[78]
Edited by: RedSplat on 01/11/2008 16:01:05
Originally by: Rhadamantine
Originally by: RedSplat
You got burned that's for sure.
Damn, a Trolls only weakness.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.01 18:17:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 01/11/2008 18:21:00
Originally by: Sebea
Originally by: Gonada
remove local, and have a way to find cloaked ships
Unless they are supposed to cloak, otherwise, whats the point of fitting the mod, but this can all wait for the inevitable "NOOO MY FREE INTEL" whine thread, and the follow up "Cloaks are too strong, i can't shoot what i can't see" whines.
Remove local and force recons are 100% overpowered. All the EW capabilities of a combat recon (which make them more useful then other kinds of T2 cruisers like HACs/etc, and much much more so post nano nerf) plus covops cloak and resulting total unscoutability = broken.
So, basically:
(a) Give normal cloakers a way to be found.
(b) Severely nerf cloaking recons.
And, no, sorry, the "but it's their role" argument does not work if the concept of powerful EW and total inability to spot them (even spot a number) is overpowered itself. Which, with local removal, it would be.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
The Slagh
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Posted - 2008.11.01 18:36:00 -
[80]
All hail Scanner-Online.
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SSgt Sniper
Gallente
MAIDS
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Posted - 2008.11.01 18:48:00 -
[81]
Edited by: SSgt Sniper on 01/11/2008 18:51:50
The thing that jumps out at me about this is I believe if they do it, with some sort of improved scanner system introducted, There will be blue on blue POS incidents for a time afterwards as alliances start shooting the POS of that one corp in every alliance that places POS without ship maintenence arrays.
And we all know there's always that one damn corp that does it. In every alliance. Ever. Anywhere you go.
-------
CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.Poor PR in progress!
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manasi
Caldari
Ceptacemia
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2008.11.01 19:19:00 -
[82]
OK, the two ideas I have read from the devs is "remove local" or "delay it".....one problem, how then do you gather intel?
Give that ability to Covert Ops ships (buzzards, hyenas, and the t1 variants of those frigates ) to gather intel (by intelligence: I mean class, ship, pilot, cloaked or no) about a system. That takes the intel role off of the system and puts in onto the player.
That would do two things:
1) Allow those ships to be more than a "incoming" role by gathering ship intelligence where possible and passing that info to a fleet...
2) Allowing rookie pilots or those new to 0.0 have another role rather than that of "throw away tackler"...
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Holy Lowlander
Comply Or Die
G00DFELLAS
|
Posted - 2008.11.01 20:25:00 -
[83]
Just keep local ... >.>
recons and sb don't need a boost , they're good at what they are doing allready....
However ships that aren't 'made' for cloaking should be able to be found somehow .....
just an idea could be delaying local with keeping ship sizes and numbers in mind . Like a 100 man RR gang should be spotable in local , but a 3 man nano HAC gang shouldn't ....
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