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Blaster Boats R.I.P. Nov 11th, 2008

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Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2008.11.05 11:39:00 - [61] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 05/11/2008 10:44:41 Originally by: Lunara Yoshi HI. I'm a stupid blobber who never flew a blasterboat and is pretending to have a clue. In fact, I'm happy, because now my Amarr ships outclass the competition even more. Fixed I love people who have never flown a blasterboat commenting on blaster viability. Particularly Amarr trolls, they've got the best quality trolls. Always had them too, and funniest thing is that even as one of the most OP races in EVE they still want to nerf everything else to the ground Well I never said this or that character are blasterboat wizzes, in fact I quit my gallente pvp account for now a few months ago because the amarr pvp account was paying off more, you should check into that. I just find people who asume killboard stats a measure of pvp expertise laughable and since I'm a big fan of the proof or stfu mantra, I figured I throw in a char your simple mind might actually relate too. I blob, welcome to alliance warfare in 0.0. As you already said, 'my amarr ships' outclass the compettion already. Ignoring the 10+ falcon fleets for argument's sake. And the simple fact is, in 0.0 you tend to find very few blasterthrons, I generally flew sniperboats, cos well, it works out a lot better in and versus blobbing. Amarr is the current fotm, soon to be replaced by caldari again, don't worry, our gallente chars will be back on top in a year or two. But that's all beside the point. No, blasterthrons will not be able to do the same things they have been doing in eve now for about 3 years. And yes, they can still be used effectively and will outperform many other BS doing it. Hence, adapt. I would have your stuff, but I can't use blasterthrons anyway eh :) All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide..
Fuglife Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2008.11.05 11:50:00 - [62] OP needs to get a grip!
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.11.05 11:54:00 - [63] Originally by: Keitaro Baka ... I quit my gallente pvp account for now a few months ago because the amarr pvp account was paying off more... As you already said, 'my amarr ships' outclass the compettion already. ... And the simple fact is, in 0.0 you tend to find very few blasterthrons ... No, blasterthrons will not be able to do the same things they have been doing in eve now for about 3 years. Originally by: Keitaro Baka And yes, they can still be used effectively and will outperform many other BS doing it. Hence, adapt. Interesting twist of logic. The blasterboat (and the AC ship) were always the tools for the soloer (largely due to their versatility vs various targets) or the very small gang at best, and are subpar in gangs with current TQ mechanics by your own admission. So, why do these ships need a nerf, particularly for their only role? I mean, if you're dealing a hamfisted nerf to something, it should be a overpowered ship class/fit, shouldn't it? Not something which is already largely obsolete outside of a narrow role. All short-range ships above frigate size have been nerfed for solo with this patch, at any rate. The need to use scramblers (therefore limiting tackle to 10.8km), the need to use neuts (making ships without free highs quite pointless and lowering damage output to get close-range frig defence), etc. Tragic part is, there is no reason for it. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Crellion Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2008.11.05 13:25:00 - [64] Originally by: VJ Maverick Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal probably a good time to learn something other than mwd -> approach QFT You mean time to learn how to shoot with mid blsters at the 10-15 range or time to learn how to use a different weapon system? The former is a paradox which would make you both stupid and the latter is what the OP has stated precisely in which case you are proving and not disproving his point... Numbnuts... Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance	Posted - 2008.11.05 13:38:00 - [65] Everyone needs to learn to adapt and train a variety of ships. I pity those of you who trained Large Blaster Specialisation 5. I RIP your SP more than all blaster boats.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.11.05 13:43:00 - [66] Originally by: TimMc Everyone needs to learn to adapt and train a variety of ships. > "Nanos are imbalanced." > "Stfu and train for a Vaga." > "..." Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Kunming T.H.U.G L.I.F.E White Core	Posted - 2008.11.05 14:04:00 - [67] Most blaster pilots ask for nothing but a hefty DMG increase. In the current situtation b-boats already have a limited use and in the future when getting to the target will be even more difficult it should pay off rather fine. Also from a comparision point of view, if blasterboats would be considered a melee fighter, it should be much stronger than the spear (amarr), ruling the mid ranges, or archer (caldari), ruling all ranges with variying efficiency, DMG output wise at least. Blasterboats' speed issues are not the issues really, even if it gets worse, the real issue is the way to small DMG advantage they have over the alternatives, it removes their viability to even take the risk.
Orbius Prime Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.05 14:17:00 - [68] Originally by: Kunming Most blaster pilots ask for nothing but a hefty DMG increase. In the current situtation b-boats already have a limited use and in the future when getting to the target will be even more difficult it should pay off rather fine. Also from a comparision point of view, if blasterboats would be considered a melee fighter, it should be much stronger than the spear (amarr), ruling the mid ranges, or archer (caldari), ruling all ranges with variying efficiency, DMG output wise at least. Blasterboats' speed issues are not the issues really, even if it gets worse, the real issue is the way to small DMG advantage they have over the alternatives, it removes their viability to even take the risk. so you work for ccp ? blaster boats can't reach target fast enough because of mwdoff patch... increase damage ?? => make gang pvp even more pwn when in blaster boats (gang => more webs-scrams ) i'd ask for a promotion ! [Buy cheap! TimeCards SAVES Money ]
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.11.05 14:23:00 - [69] Originally by: Orbius Prime => make gang pvp even more pwn when in blaster boats (gang => more webs-scrams ) Oh, my god, get a clue. Gang PVP = range wins over raw damage, every time of the day. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Aaspa Echolalia. Shangri-La.	Posted - 2008.11.05 15:25:00 - [70] Hello all! I was wondering if any of you have numbers about the nerf? You are all talking about dead blaster BS but where are the figures? What is this nerf really? How are they going to balance the speed of the ships? I would like to understand that instead of argumenting that nanoBS are good or bad. HOW???? Thanks P.S. I haven't read all what you said so maybe I missed it somewhere eh eh...
kelisin	Posted - 2008.11.05 18:06:00 - [71] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Orbius Prime => make gang pvp even more pwn when in blaster boats (gang => more webs-scrams ) Oh, my god, get a clue. Gang PVP = range wins over raw damage, every time of the day. If logistics are present then those blaster boats could present more of a challenge then you would think. They are nerfed they are not removed from the fight if flown right they will still be dangerous.
Krystal Demishy	Posted - 2008.11.05 18:21:00 - [72] That's so bad and stupid that i cannot believe CCP is doing that for real!
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.11.05 19:14:00 - [73] Originally by: kelisin If logistics are present then those blaster boats could present more of a challenge then you would think. They are nerfed they are not removed from the fight if flown right they will still be dangerous. Yeah, OK, if you bring a Falcon, a logistics, a Rapier and a Arazu per two blaster-BS they work great. Of course, so could battlebadgers. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Fistme	Posted - 2008.11.05 19:16:00 - [74] Originally by: kelisin Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Orbius Prime => make gang pvp even more pwn when in blaster boats (gang => more webs-scrams ) Oh, my god, get a clue. Gang PVP = range wins over raw damage, every time of the day. If logistics are present then those blaster boats could present more of a challenge then you would think. They are nerfed they are not removed from the fight if flown right they will still be dangerous. Not really compared to a pulse boat of similar class. The loss of dps due to entering range is rather obvious. Logistic ships being present will not make a blaster boat superior to a pulse boat in reguards to damage dealt, sorry...
Dizeezer Velar Caldari League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees	Posted - 2008.11.05 19:22:00 - [75] Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal probably a good time to learn something other than mwd -> approach Oh you mean like amarr and caldari playstyle? I think it goes something like this.... Lock target, roll forehead over f1-f8 keys, stare at monitor. Yeah ok.
Cmndr Griff Opinicus Operations Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.11.05 19:37:00 - [76] Originally by: Dizeezer Velar Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal probably a good time to learn something other than mwd -> approach Oh you mean like amarr and caldari playstyle? I think it goes something like this.... Lock target, roll forehead over f1-f8 keys, stare at monitor. Yeah ok. See this patch has brought nothing but diversity! Where do ideas like these come from? Monkeys in hats?
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2008.11.05 19:55:00 - [77] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: kelisin If logistics are present then those blaster boats could present more of a challenge then you would think. They are nerfed they are not removed from the fight if flown right they will still be dangerous. Yeah, OK, if you bring a Falcon, a logistics, a Rapier and a Arazu per two blaster-BS they work great. Of course, so could battlebadgers. .... On the otherhand once Sisi comes backup I have a cunning plan for making my Blasterthon awesome again... -------------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Strill	Posted - 2008.11.05 20:18:00 - [78] Edited by: Strill on 05/11/2008 20:18:04 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Yakov Draken Which is better will depend on the range you generally fight and how happy you are to be dealing lots of EM damage. So the problem with that is that range frequently plays a role in TQ fights - and will play more of a role as time goes on due to the inability to get and stay in range. And in the end, most people omnitank anyway, so EM damage isn't that bad - especially since they boosted it. If you'd like I did the numbers on EM damage. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=909899
Yakov Draken Minmatar Tides Of War	Posted - 2008.11.05 20:48:00 - [79] Edited by: Yakov Draken on 05/11/2008 20:48:45 Originally by: Liang Nuren almost every experienced player I've seen/talked to/met has said that the changes will render blasters 99% obsolete. I doubt there will be much reasoned discussion of this topic so long as comments like that are the norm. I think Branko is right that the Thorax and Deimos look to be in big trouble. I think the Brutix will still have an very narrow role in gank and flee situations - which is all we use it for now. In general I worry more about medium blasters than large ones as large ones actually have decent range. I don't understand how so many people are ignoring this. If you want to campaign on behalf of Gallente then concentrate on medium blasters because arguing the Mega is gonna suck is a very weak/dubious argument. I would like to see a medium blaster range buff. The large gun that needs buffing, and has for so long it is getting absurd, is large AC's.
Aaspa Echolalia. Shangri-La.	Posted - 2008.11.05 21:31:00 - [80] So nobody is able to answer to my question lol you are all talking about that but you don't really know what you are talking about?
Traderboz	Posted - 2008.11.05 21:55:00 - [81] Originally by: Yakov Draken Edited by: Yakov Draken on 05/11/2008 20:48:45 Originally by: Liang Nuren almost every experienced player I've seen/talked to/met has said that the changes will render blasters 99% obsolete. I doubt there will be much reasoned discussion of this topic so long as comments like that are the norm. I think Branko is right that the Thorax and Deimos look to be in big trouble. I think the Brutix will still have an very narrow role in gank and flee situations - which is all we use it for now. In general I worry more about medium blasters than large ones as large ones actually have decent range. I don't understand how so many people are ignoring this. If you want to campaign on behalf of Gallente then concentrate on medium blasters because arguing the Mega is gonna suck is a very weak/dubious argument. I would like to see a medium blaster range buff. The large gun that needs buffing, and has for so long it is getting absurd, is large AC's. Cracks me up how they can start with a simple premise - make nano's less powerful/balance - and CCP ends up nerfing practically everything except Amarr and assault ships. I've never seen a patch that exemplifies the saying of using a hatchet when what's needed is a scalpel more than this patch. Blasters needed a nerf because of nano's.. wait, what? Missiles were OP because of nano's.. wait, what? Who knows what the game will be like after all this, and for all I know it might be a good change. What I do know is that things will be a LOT different, lots of people will have lost ISK and months of training on things that are no longer viable. And frankly, all of these changes are rather pointless, because there were plenty of good alternatives suggested by players much more experienced in this game than I, suggestions that would have added more counters to nanoships, keep nanoships balanced, and not screw up half of the other ships in the game, haha. Oh well. Got to say, Warhammer is treating em well, haha. Liang/crew, if you guys still read this, how's your alliance (boooo) characters going? Recently hit 40 on my marauder and having a blast with it, haha. What server are you guys on again? Ok, enough derailing.
Strill	Posted - 2008.11.05 22:04:00 - [82] Edited by: Strill on 05/11/2008 22:04:31 Originally by: Aaspa Hello all! I was wondering if any of you have numbers about the nerf? You are all talking about dead blaster BS but where are the figures? What is this nerf really? How are they going to balance the speed of the ships? I would like to understand that instead of argumenting that nanoBS are good or bad. HOW???? Thanks P.S. I haven't read all what you said so maybe I missed it somewhere eh eh... Ships now go four times faster under the influence of a stasis webifier. Micro-warp drives and larger blaster ships have had their max speeds reduced by various amounts. Tests show that myrmidons can out-run the tracking of blaster battleships even if the battleship is specifically set up to kill smaller ships.
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.11.05 22:37:00 - [83] Originally by: Yakov Draken I think Branko is right that the Thorax and Deimos look to be in big trouble. I think the Brutix will still have an very narrow role in gank and flee situations - which is all we use it for now. Sure, I don't deny it... and you'd be putting words into my mouth to say that I did. Blasers in general kind of suck, but I'd still argue that large blasters are getting hit worse than medium blasters - if for no other reason than the simple problems of tracking and viability. Blaster eship: - Solo: Unable to engage small ships, and is thus inviable. Total waste of time/ISK. - Small gang: Unable to engage small ships, and is thus unable to fulfill the damage dealer role. Largely a waste of time/ISK. - Med gang: Usually unable to get into range in time, and unable to deliver effective DPS before ships are destroyed. Largely a waste of time. - Large gang: Unable to get into range in time, quickly caps out traveling from target to target that's destroyed before it can get there. Total waste of time. * Applies most heavily to battleships. It's also interesting to point out that you claim BS blasters will be fine while citing exactly the thing that makes them rather suck - range. BS blasters will fare better at range than Cr blasters, and this isn't really surprising. However, Cr blasters will at least be able to deal effective damage inside the range they're designed to operate (web range). BS blasters really fail here. And in the end, the argument that you make for BS blasters extends universally to laser ships - why would you ever (reasonably) fly a blaster ship when you can fly a laser ship? Well, the overwhelming consensus is that you WON'T. Quote: The large gun that needs buffing, and has for so long it is getting absurd, is large AC's. Um. You're crazy. Please look into artillery... AC's at least have some semblance of working correctly and, at least on the battleship level, survive this nerf far better than blasters do. The blasterthron is the new ArtyPest. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire Liang/Vanesca - Order/Iron Rock@WAR www.kwikdeath.org
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.11.05 22:39:00 - [84] Originally by: Traderboz Oh well. Got to say, Warhammer is treating em well, haha. Liang/crew, if you guys still read this, how's your alliance (boooo) characters going? Recently hit 40 on my marauder and having a blast with it, haha. What server are you guys on again? Ok, enough derailing. I'm still on Iron Rock, but between my internet going down at home and the mandatory overtime at work I haven't had time to play as much as I'd like. I restarted on Iron Rock with Liang (SW), and she's still in T1. I was gonna push her to T2 last night but... my freaking internet went down again. Blah. Life on a farm I guess? -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire Liang/Vanesca - Order/Iron Rock@WAR www.kwikdeath.org
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.11.05 23:10:00 - [85] Originally by: Traderboz Oh well. Got to say, Warhammer is treating em well, haha. Liang/crew, if you guys still read this, how's your alliance (boooo) characters going? Recently hit 40 on my marauder and having a blast with it, haha. What server are you guys on again? Meh, I'm on euro servers, Sea of Dreams server - SW is such win, by the way. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Strill	Posted - 2008.11.05 23:23:00 - [86] Originally by: Liang Nuren Quote: The large gun that needs buffing, and has for so long it is getting absurd, is large AC's. Um. You're crazy. Please look into artillery... AC's at least have some semblance of working correctly and, at least on the battleship level, survive this nerf far better than blasters do. The blasterthron is the new ArtyPest. -Liang Say what? I don't quite understand how you got that. An AC Tempest does less DPS than a blaster mega even at optimal range, and even if you take base resistances into account and let the tempest exploit the target's resistance hole. Why exactly are autocannons better off than blasters?
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.11.05 23:33:00 - [87] Originally by: Strill Why exactly are autocannons better off than blasters? He is probably talking about the Tempest being better since you need 5 free mids plus dual heavy neuts to not die vs smaller stuff and be remotely useful in a BS. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Ort Lofthus Wildlands Heavy Technologies FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.11.05 23:46:00 - [88] AC pest can also fit barrage and engage at longer ranges. Even more if it also has falloff rigs. Knowing that the current changes to tracking, webs, scrams are here for a while, what changes would you need to make to make blaster boats as a whole viable again? Improved tracking and damage? Changing MWD cap bonuses to AB velocity bonus? (only really helps the deimos and thorax, but maybe the hyperion and brutix can shed their active tank bonuses for this). TBH, reverse the laser tracking buff from a year ago. With the resistance changes, the things are easily the best weapon system available with high DPS and relatively huge engagement envelopes.
Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service	Posted - 2008.11.05 23:52:00 - [89] Originally by: StuckNJita I mean really.. Which gallente pilot podded the GM? I reckon it was me. Every effective ship, tactic, and trick I've used has been nerfed. Taxman VI: Voided Ledger
Aaron Mirrorsaver R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2008.11.06 01:03:00 - [90] wts full tech 2 capable gallente pilot or trade for amarr pilot. contact me in game. must have large energy turret 5 and amarr bs 5. ------ RECON is recruiting

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