Shut up, please. Nothing of what you said made any relevence to gifted items.

Most T2 were given out by CCP to select players in ''lottery'' that was rigged. Yes some of the lottery were fair and others not. Alongside this CCP also handed out T2 BPO as drops or just plain straight into players assets. THIS is F'ing unfair.

The BPO's should be removed from game and the player owning it reinbursd the lottery research points that BPO cost. EVE is rigged it's not an even game.

I do hope Sony Reps catch wind of stuff like this and know exactly the type of company CCP is.

Only 7.07% of Absolutions and 23.62% of Sleipnirs produced in March 2012 were produced through invention.

thats not unfair?

The problem is me. The bpo can be researched to the point invention is more expensive than the cost of the BPO so u cant compete in a market that the final product is more expensive that your cost.



Never heard of alts ?
You can have 3 characters per acount.
With the money you earn with that single BPO you can buy more characters / mantain more acounts = more free production slots / more free invention. BPO T2 is free money.

So u can NEVER compete with a BPO owner. He with less effort makes more money.

Ways to solve it?

- Removal
- Make BPO - BPCs with x runs
- Make BPO T2 default me -25 / -50 so they are more expensive than invention.
- Reintroduce BPO T2 (lottery / invention chance etc)

EvA

the reason why absolutions and sleps arnt not produced via invention isnt to do with a t2 bpo. its to do with why the hell would you use one, when a t3 is better and a tier 3 bc does the same damage at half the cost. if more people used teh ship, demand woudl be higher and more would be produced via invention, its very simple issue of supply and demand, they suck in there current incarnation and demand is low. if you look at other examples from the twitter feed, you can see this in action

i own an abso, but id much rather have fun in my oracle.

The real reason its they are selling those ship below invention cost.

1- they are crazy and whant to loose money.

2- they use t2 BPO

As stats from @CCP_Diagoras show. Number 2 is the cause.

there are a number of reasons, the producers are idiots, they mine minerials, they are free. be it t1 or t2 mins, they are free or have lowered cost due to the fact they mine them.. thats the biggest reason why stuff is cheaper. if you actually bothered to check, yourll find t2 items with no bpo that sell below the cost of the parts.

dont assume anything.

Yes the figures released for T2BPO just make me rage even further think there are people out there making 80% of the market at zero effort all from knowing a CCP dev when the game was even more corrupt than it is now. 80% of the market for all those years to fund an allince that fights in a bullcrap war that CCP decides who wins by the massive isk dumps they give through T2BPO.

Crappy ships and mods will not be manufactures as they have no value.
BPO are not causing this.

im currently one of the guys producing absolutions off invention. my build cost is 127mil right now, and they sell for 210, should invetion be nerfed cuz im making 70~ mil/ship?

More like BPO owners can undercut people trying invention to the point that they exit the market.

Proof?

If data isnt wrong u better sell the components.

http://www.eve-market-guide.com/t2item.php?id=22448

EvA

[quote=Eva Volkova][quote=Gizan]im currently one of the guys producing absolutions off invention. my build cost is 127mil right now, and they sell for 210, should invetion be nerfed cuz im making 70~ mil/ship?

think you missed the part where he had moons produce the mins to make it. was that your intention?

I've known at least 2 people in RL that stopped playing EVE as a direct result of T2 BPO's. Why would they want to play a game where some chosen player gets to mis an entire step of gameplay? T2 BPO is the reason I would never touch manufacture with a barge pole.

Crappy ships and mods will be manufactured if someone buys them above cost.

The are selling above BPO cost below Invention cost.

EvA

If inventors didn't undercut BPO owners and sell at 0 margin, that would NOT be a problem
Also, given that T2 BPO are such a gold mine, why did most orignal owners sell theirs?

The point is.
- If BPO T2 are great then introduce them again.
- If BPO are a problem remove them from game.

EvA

the answers are.
- The lottery was a mistake, invention is better and is working as intended
- There not a problem

how can the lottery be a mistake and not the bpo ?
Invention isnt working as intended because a small % of players using BPO t2 sell a big% of the market.
And with invention you cant compete with them.
Telling me that with invention you can make money is the same that telling me that killing rats gives you money and what?

We need a system where invention can compete in every market.

If you seem BPO T2 are good lets find a way to reintroduce them.

- Make a system so everyone has a chance to get BPO T2
- Or change BPO T2 so they are more expensive than invention (still give an advantage of no spending time doing invention)

In a game we need to look what best for the system not what is best for us.

And in no way having free card its good for anyone.

They are removing R&D agents in the same way so will be a great time to think about removing/changing/reintroducing BPO T2



EvE

It isnt about envy. Its about the rules we must play with. We all play and love this game i and i would love to play in a system where everyone plays with the same rules.

CPP decided BPO T2 wasnt a good system and decide to remove it from the game.

The problem of the BPO is that they give an advantage to the ones that uses them and that they dont get destroyed with it use.

you have two systems to produce T2 items (the same final product).

The old system that CPP didnt like and the new one (invention).

If you whant to have two systems you should (in a game enviroment) balance them.

One without any work producing more expensive items (BPO T2).

And another with more work and less expensive item (Invention).

And then reintroduce BPO T2 and let people decide.

EvA

1: CCP had seeded the number of BPO's that was to be seeded. That is why they stopped.
2: No BPO's is ever used up, live with it.
3: Invention is for the masses, and it only requires some small work to do and ISK.
4: T2 BPO requires you to get hold of items, then make items and sell, pretty much like any other activity.
5: Reintroduce T2 BPO's?? that will ruin invention for ever, making it totally BUST for the masses.


in short, you must be in Test.

1. they stop because it wasnt a good system.
3. So in short BPO T2 are good for the elite and not for the masses ?
4. invention too + you have to do the invention so they allways are more expensive and cant compete.
5. Not if we change how BPO T2 work. If BPO are more expensive to produce but able to mass produce and Invention less expensive no mass produce. You have a choice.

this is more of the same. I have mi toy and dont whant anyone to broke it i want mi "i win button for industry".

Lets move all to invention o lets build a system that can work in unison wich each other. And after that re introduce BPO T2.

If the BPO are good lets all have them if not remove them or change them. I dont like good for me not good for anyone else.

EvA

T2 BPO's was seeded in a fixed number.
it was not stopped because it was BAD, it stopped because they were done seeding.

Also, T2 BPO's are for heavy industrial investors... (not you) and veterans that never 'cashed in'

When they introduced invention cpp said they wasnt happy how the lottery was handled.

why?
why no a new system?
why scared of change?
What is better with this sistem?
What advantages have this sistem instead of the one i have talked about?

EvA

Many moons ago when T2 Bpo was the only way of producing T2 items, cartels formed. They offer ridiculous amounts of isk to buy up all the BPO of the same item and controlled the prices. Peasants then had to pay 20 mil ISK for a cargo expander and 300 mil ISK for a HAC. Back then peasants whined for a good reason because cartels could control both volume and price

CCP wanted to keep T2 manufacturing distinct from T1, but didn't like to continue with the lottery because these cartels would just keep buying up the BPO and continue plundering the peasants. They wanted a system where anyone could participate and more importantly scalable as EVE population grew. Thus, Invention was born

The populace of New Eden rejoiced as Invention was introduced and quickly smashed the Cartel's grip on the T2 market. Now T2 items was in abundance and everyone could afford them. A noob no longer had to save for days just to buy a 20mil ISK for a cap recharger, mind you this was back in the days when LP stores didn't offer as much Faction mods

As you can see Invention is working as intended and it was not a typo error for invented BPC to carry -4 ME/-4 PE by default.

Fast forward several years later, EVE gets new players who joins and conveniently forgets that EVE is a game set in a persistent universe. Then more ignorant players much like yourself who can't figure out the difference between their butt hole and their mouths come out on the forums and start whining about how unfair things are while totally oblivious to how much harder the game was or how much improvements the game has seen.

So, please get off your privileged a$$ next time and read up on EVE's rich history before whining on the forums for unnecessary changes which would accomplish nothing except to satisfy your bitter jealousy.