10-50% waste

on a side note, my own wall of text on the subject.

I do believe T2 BPO invention requires introduction, making the cost for running invention both costly and accessible to every one (making sure all the research stations in eve are not qued up for the next 4 years) and the current private stations do not become extinct due to wars.

Research needs a total revamp from the ground up, I believe the current T1 market shows us that the community is profiting.
I.E. make research BPO related and cut the BPC waste down to zero or 10% standard for small items and as is for large slower moving items.

We also want to take special care not to hurt the BPC market to much as far to many people are relent and situated comfortably on their repetitive work, which is calming from every day life, if hurt has to happen, atleast give them something else to look forward to.

as for the people who Hoard T2 BPO's it would indeed be unfair to just take it from them "Tough, Umad?" , I believe buying the BPO's from them at current market prices would be fair as they would not lose anything, only make them give up their advantage.

Another major problem we have, are moons, Well they are not really a problem, I think its great how they work now, but we should look into giving miners the ability to "Craft" these moon minerals, like research but in a way where its only meant to cap moon minerals from growing to far in price once the new T2 changes take effect

"Keep CCP in firm control" or "Market regulation"
as we all know, when investors are given the chance to save their own ass and let millions die, exactly that will happen every single time without MARKET REGULATION, just a touch up here and there once in a while when you start seeing people complain about the same thing a bit to often, bty thank you for listening to us CCP.


As for the poster who says we work for him, I believe his logic is not to insult us, but to show us, in the form of art, he is reflecting on the position and feelings of the 99%

If you want us to be able to create BPOs, you absolutely must have a degrading factor on them, else the market will be soon full of them. ME decreasing one level per day for example, or some other form of research upgrades. Maybe even degration on every research relevant stats of a BPO. Research progress and what was yesterday state of the art, is outdated tomorrow.

I like the idea, but you have to be careful about implementing changes to the market.

It's a problem of attriction.
T2 BPOs are incoherent and don't inherently bring value over invention, but removing them creates bigger problems than they create themselves.
In other worlds, the accelleration is not enough to overcome the friction.

That sounds very interesting . . .

What if we created a new type of BPC through invention.

It turns a BPO into a max run BPC that can have ME/PE research done on it.

So I could take a Vexor BPO, add datacores, and Invent (with chance of failure of course) a Special 15 Run Ishtar BPC that I could then perform ME/PE research on.

These BPCs would always have a higher cost than T2 BPOs (Material Cost + effort to run the jobs), but it would cut down on the advantages of T2 BPOs (especially in the ship markets).

-FM

This, for the record, would not actually positively affect the profit margin of inventing Ishtars.

You would cut down the "BPO advantage..." and you would also **** your own bottom line.

Otherwise known as "cutting off your nose to spite your face". It's almost like nobody ever even looks at what they think they are "competing" against. You want Ishtars? Fine.

IIRC, there were only 10 of every ship BPO seeded. Let's assume that they are all still alive and kicking and being actively produced from under optimal conditions. With perfect skills, a +4% time implant, using a normal manu line (advanced ship manu lines have an additional wastage factor that cuts into margin) and 34 PE, it takes 1 day, 3.5 hours to produce an Ishtar from a BPO. So in a 720 hour month, a BPO can produce 26 ishtars.

So if they're all still in use, under those ideal conditions, and all of the ishtars are being delivered to market, that's 260 ishtars a month, maximum resulting from BPOs.

The average daily volume of Ishtars sold in Jita for the last year is 43.6, which means that under the absolute best conditions possible, every BPO that ever was can supply about 6 days worth of volume per month for this particular ship. When you add in the other hubs, it is far less than that.

Now at this point, anyone with the most basic grasp of arithmetic would say, "Hmm. I guess I really don't have to compete against those guys because they will run out of units long before the market demand is satisfied," and go about their business and make a shitton of isk doing so.

BPO whiners don't do that, though. Instead they fuss over the "BPO Advantage" and come up with "smart" ideas like the above that would actually cut into their own profits.

Increasing ME/PE from invention would simply mean that the price would drop to suit, but it's even worse than that: Since limitless Ishtars can now be produced at 15ME, THAT will be where the new price point will be set.

That means every inventor will HAVE to do that research to be profitable/competitive. By "allowing" ME/PE research to be done on invented BPCs, you are, in fact, FORCING ME/PE research to be done on the BPCs.

Know what that means?

That means you just came up with an idea that will completely **** your own isk-per-slothour by exponentially increasing the amount of lab time required for every Ishtar made.


I swear, no group needs more protection from itself than S&I.

BPO owners are forced to produce from said BPOs.

Inventors can diversify.

I swear, no group needs more protection from itself than S&I.

If you want to moan about how the T2 BPOs were handled & the terrible wrongs of them it should be taken to the Crime & Punishment forum. But the Crime & Punishment forum would require that the complaints have relevance and it's well past the point of relevance and into the territory of "feeling sorry for yourself". How dare life not be fair?

If you want to complain about how T2 BPOs shouldn't be in the game it should be taken to the Suggestions & Ideas forum. But the Suggestions & Idea forum doesn't bother feeling sorry for itself and it's residents would descend upon such a thread like so many angry magpies upon an ill-tempered cat. You can hiss and spit all you'd like, but they'll still drive you off.

I'm horribly disappointed that so much good sarcasm was so deeply buried in a forum post that should already be dead.

All "T2 BPO" posts in the Science & Industry forum are troll feed as far as I'm concerned. The most important thing these posts do is continue to provide a place for an old wound to fester & putrefy. They don't belong in the Science & Industry forum.

Gentlemen, please,

The forum topic reads:
"the importance of T2 BPOs"

This is not a topic about "moaning" or terrible things, its simply here to asses, what is the current importance of T2 BPO's in the current state of affairs within EvE online and New Eden.

The question still stands, what is the importance
the answer should lead to more questions and constructive comments and criticism.

The question of whether T2 BPOs are "unfair" is a wholly irrelevant one, as they're SUPPOSED to grant an advantage.

If T2BPO were a ship it would have 100% resistance, be able to deal dread DPS while tracking frigs and having the speed of an interceptor.

If T2BPO were a ship it would have 100% resistance, be able to deal dread DPS while tracking frigs and having the speed of an interceptor.

T2 BPOs have a crappy RoI, but they can handle a larger investment budget with ever so slightly less hassle than T1 BPOs (cap/supercap BPOs are more tricky).
For the exact same total initial ISK investment amount, T2 BPOs are one of the worst moneymakers in the game !

All T2 BPOs are really good for is low returns with medium workload on huge investments, for people with way too much idle ISK.

If T2BPO were a ship it would have 100% resistance, be able to deal dread DPS while tracking frigs and having the speed of an interceptor.

''OK for sure but it can only target one ship at a time while inventors ships can target several.'' -Typical T2BPO supporter comment if BPO's were ships.

This is a good comparison to let PVP players know how over powered and in need of removal T2BPO's are and the defence T2BPO supporters give about invention being able to run multiple manufacturing runs at once. T2BPO needs removed/nerfed worse than the Dramiel ever did.

Good luck explaining that to someone who doesn't understand what opportunity cost is.

Yet again people who talk about ROI on T2BPO are idiots the ROI is instant T2BPO cost the owners nothing but RP and are worth billions of ISK. The ROI on T2BPO is instant and astronomical in account for the retaliative cost of RP.

Yet again people who talk about ROI on T2BPO are idiots the ROI is instant T2BPO cost the owners nothing but RP and are worth billions of ISK. The ROI on T2BPO is instant and astronomical in account for the retaliative cost of RP.

Yet again people who talk about ROI on T2BPO are idiots the ROI is instant T2BPO cost the owners nothing but RP and are worth billions of ISK. The ROI on T2BPO is instant and astronomical in account for the retaliative cost of RP.

Yet again people who talk about ROI on T2BPO are idiots the ROI is instant T2BPO cost the owners nothing but RP and are worth billions of ISK. The ROI on T2BPO is instant and astronomical in account for the retaliative cost of RP.

Yet again people who talk about ROI on T2BPO are idiots the ROI is instant T2BPO cost the owners nothing but RP and are worth billions of ISK. The ROI on T2BPO is instant and astronomical in account for the retaliative cost of RP.

I am fairly certain, that Brewlar Kuvakei doesnt even read any of these posts:p This is his Crusade against his worst Enemy, the T2 BPO. All he does is spamming a more or less meaningless post after a certain ammount of time, not as a reaction of previous posts.

Honestly I read his half way, and read yours to the end but your argument is still invalid I.E. has nothing to do with "The importance"

Your argument is truly invalid as you are incapable of seeing all sides of the coin, perhaps pretend to look for public sake.

Honestly I read his half way, and read yours to the end but your argument is still invalid I.E. has nothing to do with "The importance"

Your argument is truly invalid as you are incapable of seeing all sides of the coin, perhaps pretend to look for public sake.