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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.11.09 20:44:00 -
[1]
Since CCP completely ignored player feedback in the marauder case, making the web bonus useless in it's intended role (hitting npc frigs with it's BS guns, as stated in the dev blog), the bonus should be removed completely, and replaced by something usefull, like an optimal bonus for the Paladin, And a second tracking bonus for the Kronos.
Flame away. ------------------------------------------
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.11.09 20:47:00 -
[2]
How about they remove the tractor beam bonus, change the web bonus to 12% per level, and replace the tractor beam bonus with additional tracking and optimal bonuses for the Kronos and Paladin respectively?
In other words: under no circumstances should the web bonus be removed from the ships. That's the only thing currently saving them from becoming useless piles of crap.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Originally by: Horza Otho [06:36:47] Horza Otho > its all good, everytime i fit a mega i play some mariah carey in the backround
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Furb Killer
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.09 20:57:00 -
[3]
Why is having webs roughly equal to current webs after patch useless? I dont know if it is enough to hit frigs, but it does for sure mean cruisers can be hit for full damage.
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dojocan81
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Posted - 2008.11.09 21:07:00 -
[4]
uh yeah, replace that stupid roXXor tractor beam bonus on the golem too !! gimme a 50% rof instead
please??kk!! thx
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Another Forum'Alt
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Posted - 2008.11.09 22:26:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Furb Killer Why is having webs roughly equal to current webs after patch useless? I dont know if it is enough to hit frigs, but it does for sure mean cruisers can be hit for full damage.
before nerf: 99% after nerf: 90%
Yes, very equal...
As for being able to hit frigs, it means it is now 100% impossible, you could shoot one for a week straight and not hit.
Nerf Zulupark. NOW. |
Ocih
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Posted - 2008.11.09 22:33:00 -
[6]
With the sensor strength of a shuttle, nobody in thier right mind is going to put a Marauder in web range. Even with bonus range.
Eve combat will still be the same after the 11th. Jam Scram Thank-you M'am.
and at a billion ISK, you really want your Marauder taking primary?
T2 BS are still useless in PvP and will remain so untill they can absorb T2 damage. |
Drunken Fury
Minmatar It's A Trap
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Posted - 2008.11.09 22:38:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Drunken Fury on 09/11/2008 22:39:15 My main question is why are you guys useing your marauders main weapons to attack frigates?
You should be using your drones to do that.
BC's+ use your ships main weapons.
Cruisers- use your drones.
5 T2 Medium drones will rip through frigates and cruisers FAST. While that's happening, you pop the BS's and BC's.
(EDIT To the OP, I personally feel that the Web Bonus should be good a good one overall. I don't fly one of the marauders with a Web Bonus, but I too would like to see it buffed a little. I'd LOVE to fly the Amarr one. Dead sexy.)
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Another Forum'Alt
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Posted - 2008.11.09 22:45:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Another Forum''Alt on 09/11/2008 22:45:20
Originally by: Drunken Fury Edited by: Drunken Fury on 09/11/2008 22:39:15 My main question is why are you guys useing your marauders main weapons to attack frigates?
You should be using your drones to do that.
BC's+ use your ships main weapons.
Cruisers- use your drones.
5 T2 Medium drones will rip through frigates and cruisers FAST. While that's happening, you pop the BS's and BC's.
(EDIT To the OP, I personally feel that the Web Bonus should be good a good one overall. I don't fly one of the marauders with a Web Bonus, but I too would like to see it buffed a little. I'd LOVE to fly the Amarr one. Dead sexy.)
Haven't you heard, drones are getting nerfed too
The entire point of marauders is they are designed to be able to kill huge numbers of EVERY NPC type, that includes frigs. Drones just aren't fast enough (the kronos has crap drones anyway, and the paladin is worse)
Nerf Zulupark. NOW. |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.11.09 22:48:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ocih With the sensor strength of a shuttle, nobody in thier right mind is going to put a Marauder in web range. Even with bonus range.
Eve combat will still be the same after the 11th. Jam Scram Thank-you M'am.
and at a billion ISK, you really want your Marauder taking primary?
T2 BS are still useless in PvP and will remain so untill they can absorb T2 damage.
I guess I'm out of my mind then lol. I probably PVP with a Kronos more than all the rest of Eve combined.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Originally by: Horza Otho [06:36:47] Horza Otho > its all good, everytime i fit a mega i play some mariah carey in the backround
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Ocih
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Posted - 2008.11.09 22:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Ocih With the sensor strength of a shuttle, nobody in thier right mind is going to put a Marauder in web range. Even with bonus range.
Eve combat will still be the same after the 11th. Jam Scram Thank-you M'am.
and at a billion ISK, you really want your Marauder taking primary?
T2 BS are still useless in PvP and will remain so untill they can absorb T2 damage.
I guess I'm out of my mind then lol. I probably PVP with a Kronos more than all the rest of Eve combined.
You are right, you aren't. I can fit any T1 Battleship to do the same things your Billion ISK T2 can do, maybe a few small variations. Not enough of a difference to justify an uninsured Billion ISK bulls eye.
On the PvE they don't even do that well. There are 2 kinds of 0.0 sec BS's. ones that have a Bounty of x,x00,000 ISK and ones that have a x,x50,000 ISK. The 00 ones orbit at 12km. The 50's orbit at 34km. I need more tractor range why? Ignore bounties that end in 50,000. Kill the other ones. Or just head to the 50,000 ones. The ones you are still shooting at will follow you. You need to move 14 km to get to the last one..
Golem mission runner. Good ship. Still will be after the 11th, Still not as good as a CNR though. Training time for a CNR is so much lower. |
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DrefsabZN
Caldari Butterfly Effect Corp.
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Posted - 2008.11.09 23:04:00 -
[11]
I always saw the marauder ships for missioning/ratting/plexing etc. Which is why before the patch I considered the Caldari one useless because 4 launchers with double damage while it sounds like pure win, you hit an npc with defenders and you have just lost so much dps.
Sure skills help but still your talking one or two missile's getting popped each salvo. Totally not worth the isk for the ship.
Now they nerf the web and missiles/drones/speed etc I and wondering just what a golem is going to be good for?
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.11.09 23:06:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Another Forum'Alt
Originally by: Furb Killer Why is having webs roughly equal to current webs after patch useless? I dont know if it is enough to hit frigs, but it does for sure mean cruisers can be hit for full damage.
before nerf: 99% after nerf: 90%
Yes, very equal...
As for being able to hit frigs, it means it is now 100% impossible, you could shoot one for a week straight and not hit.
One Marauder web used to be equal to two regular webs, now it's 2.51 of them, or more if you include the effects of the stacking nerf. It has, relative to a normal T2 web, actually gotten better with this patch.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.11.09 23:10:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Another Forum'Alt
Originally by: Furb Killer Why is having webs roughly equal to current webs after patch useless? I dont know if it is enough to hit frigs, but it does for sure mean cruisers can be hit for full damage.
before nerf: 99% after nerf: 90%
Yes, very equal...
As for being able to hit frigs, it means it is now 100% impossible, you could shoot one for a week straight and not hit.
One Marauder web used to be equal to two regular webs, now it's 2.51 of them, or more if you include the effects of the stacking nerf. It has, relative to a normal T2 web, actually gotten better with this patch.
Relative to what they used to be capable of, they got worse. You're doing t wrong. But then you're Caldari, so that's to be expected.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Originally by: Horza Otho [06:36:47] Horza Otho > its all good, everytime i fit a mega i play some mariah carey in the backround
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Mag's
MASS
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Posted - 2008.11.09 23:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto One Marauder web used to be equal to two regular webs, now it's 2.51 of them, or more if you include the effects of the stacking nerf. It has, relative to a normal T2 web, actually gotten better with this patch.
So because everything else sucks, it got better. Priceless.
Mag's
Originally by: Avernus One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you. |
Dianeces
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.11.09 23:15:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Another Forum'Alt
The entire point of marauders is they are designed to be able to kill huge numbers of EVERY NPC type, that includes frigs. Drones just aren't fast enough (the kronos has crap drones anyway, and the paladin is worse)
Use light drones.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.11.09 23:16:00 -
[16]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 09/11/2008 23:16:45 Wrong, after the web nerf your webs will only be doing 66% web strength.
Seeing as you only get a 2% per level in web strength.
I bet if this happen you'd be all loving CCP when they inceased it to 10% per level, and people would be whining about them being overpowered.
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Mag's
MASS
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Posted - 2008.11.09 23:18:00 -
[17]
Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 09/11/2008 23:16:45 Wrong, after the web nerf your webs will only be doing 66% web strength.
Seeing as you only get a 2% per level in web strength.
I bet if this happen you'd be all loving CCP when they inceased it to 10% per level, and people would be whining about them being overpowered.
Ahh ninja edit.
You are wrong ofc
- The Kronos and Paladin have had their webifiers bonus increased from 2% to 10% per skill level
Mag's
Originally by: Avernus One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you. |
Leviathan9
Gallente Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.11.09 23:48:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Shadowsword Since CCP completely ignored player feedback in the marauder case, making the web bonus useless in it's intended role (hitting npc frigs with it's BS guns, as stated in the dev blog), the bonus should be removed completely, and replaced by something usefull, like an optimal bonus for the Paladin, And a second tracking bonus for the Kronos.
Flame away.
Make the Kronos a domi hull, and i'll be happy. ---------------------------
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Mag's
MASS
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Posted - 2008.11.09 23:49:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Leviathan9
Originally by: Shadowsword Since CCP completely ignored player feedback in the marauder case, making the web bonus useless in it's intended role (hitting npc frigs with it's BS guns, as stated in the dev blog), the bonus should be removed completely, and replaced by something usefull, like an optimal bonus for the Paladin, And a second tracking bonus for the Kronos.
Flame away.
Make the Kronos a domi hull, and i'll be happy.
What? omg you don't mean that, say you don't mean that.
Mag's
Originally by: Avernus One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you. |
Fenren
Minmatar Bure Astro Photography
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Posted - 2008.11.09 23:52:00 -
[20]
Originally by: DrefsabZN I always saw the marauder ships for missioning/ratting/plexing etc. Which is why before the patch I considered the Caldari one useless because 4 launchers with double damage while it sounds like pure win, you hit an npc with defenders and you have just lost so much dps.
Sure skills help but still your talking one or two missile's getting popped each salvo. Totally not worth the isk for the ship.
Now they nerf the web and missiles/drones/speed etc I and wondering just what a golem is going to be good for?
and how many times does it have to be said: DEFENDERS HAVE A SERTAIN PERCENTAGE CHANSE TO BE LAUNCED PER MISSILE!
if you lost 2 out of 8 before you will lose 1 out of 4 per salvo, no matter how many missiles per salvo.
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Leviathan9
Gallente Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.11.10 00:16:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Leviathan9
Originally by: Shadowsword Since CCP completely ignored player feedback in the marauder case, making the web bonus useless in it's intended role (hitting npc frigs with it's BS guns, as stated in the dev blog), the bonus should be removed completely, and replaced by something usefull, like an optimal bonus for the Paladin, And a second tracking bonus for the Kronos.
Flame away.
Make the Kronos a domi hull, and i'll be happy.
What? omg you don't mean that, say you don't mean that.
Well i could fly a t1 domi and perma tank lvl4s and afk do them.. or spend like 800mil on something that isn't nearly as good doing missions... i want a Marauder domi with a 100% dmg bonus to drones!! ---------------------------
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Typo91
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Posted - 2008.11.10 00:44:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Leviathan9
i want a Marauder domi with a 100% dmg bonus to drones!!
NOW THATS A SHIP I WOULD TAKE INTO PVP AND RISK 1 BIL ON!
sure it would get primaried and still die like a normal BS even with a SICK tank on it. but come on CCP!! 700mil for a BS should give us a BS that is actually Markedly better in damage output then a normal t1 bs.
Or is the Class "T2 ASSAULT BATTLESHIP" still reserved for the future? cause all the Assault t2 ships in the game do leaps and bounds more damage then their t1 counter parts.
My biggest hang up about maraduers is you can make a battleship beat it in every configuration.
At the very least, it would really considered for pvp if it had t2 resistances.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.11.10 01:29:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 09/11/2008 23:16:45 Wrong, after the web nerf your webs will only be doing 66% web strength.
Seeing as you only get a 2% per level in web strength.
I bet if this happen you'd be all loving CCP when they inceased it to 10% per level, and people would be whining about them being overpowered.
Ahh ninja edit.
You are wrong ofc
- The Kronos and Paladin have had their webifiers bonus increased from 2% to 10% per skill level
no, that was the point of my post.
that people would NOT be *****ing if they didn't change the bonus at all and THEN changed it to 10% because of people whining.
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Tau Chien
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Posted - 2008.11.10 04:33:00 -
[24]
Typo91 im totally disagreed with ya on this,im not sure if you are able to fly one of those awesome maradauer ship since you talked about " a 700m ship that out damage a t1 bs ". the ship cost is too much that is why most of us wouldnt use it for pvp but if u ever come across one, i dare you 1 on 1 with one of those ship.
Of course we all love to have an uber ship that would pwn anybody outhere but think about it, how powerful it could be for an assault bs with heavy dmg and high resistance?
what we need is higher insurance pay out for those ship, this is just my opinion, please discuss :)
TC
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2008.11.10 04:53:00 -
[25]
The Paladin need a change to its web bonus alright.
Atm I wouldn't take it out in PvP, rather blow up alot of ships for that bil, or buy another carrier, or a freighter for my alt, etc.
But for PvE.. well, it's too slow and dangerous in 0.0, normally I rat in cruiser or bc-hull. If I do fly bs-size I fly a cheap fitted Dominix that can salvage on the go.
And here's the key; in missions, the web bonus is totally useless. Doesn't matter if I fly with Tachyons or Mega Pulses. Extremely few NPC's go under 10km, there's spider drones and some destroyer and/or frigs orbiting at 2-7km, but most ships either orbit outside that range or die before they even reach you. I've flewn around with 13-14km webs just to *sometimes* get to web something (that my drones kill anyway, and my guns hit for poo). I've even overloaded the things just feel I'm using the web bonus for something. Eventually I threw the web out and swapped in a useful model.
The simple solution to this is to change the web bonus, to instead of having it add 2%/lvl, make it increase the web range by 1-2km/lvl (I'd love to see 40km+ webs, but then Rapier and officer-web-fitted pilots would whine their butt off). Maybe it would make it worthwhile to fit a web then. At least it would let me use Hammerheads instead of Hobgoblins.
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Myung Chul
Gallente Task Force Talon
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Posted - 2008.11.10 05:38:00 -
[26]
are u pvping in mission running attended ships... HELLO... made for mission runners all over it!!!!!
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.11.10 06:21:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Shadowsword on 10/11/2008 06:21:45 About the drone argument:
- Using drones make you much easier to probe.
- NPC spawns that haven't aggroed you will often fire on your drones.
- Drones can sometimes make you cause more aggro that you intend to.
+ I found myself once in a situation were only the dual usage of drones and guns allowed me to kill the npc tacklers fast enough to get out.
But that's rather besides the point. The point is that those ships came out with the ability to mass-swat frig-sized targets as one of their selling arguments, like the large cargo, reduced ammo usage, and tractor bonuses, and now that ability is removed, for no better argument that it might be overpowered in scenarios that might affect maybe 3% of their intended usage.
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Angel Lightbringer
Dark Evolution Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.10 07:05:00 -
[28]
Originally by: DrefsabZN I always saw the marauder ships for missioning/ratting/plexing etc. Which is why before the patch I considered the Caldari one useless because 4 launchers with double damage while it sounds like pure win, you hit an npc with defenders and you have just lost so much dps.
Sure skills help but still your talking one or two missile's getting popped each salvo. Totally not worth the isk for the ship.
Now they nerf the web and missiles/drones/speed etc I and wondering just what a golem is going to be good for?
As a current Golem mission runner, I tell you it's all good. Nevermind the defenders, you more often than not fly past them it's a funny look. I, indeed, await the patch and wonder what it's gonna be like. Some people mentioned it was quite the same, I'll see soon enough.
As for right now, I tell you it's well worth the ISK my friend. Haven't flew a CNR tho, I can't compare. -Angel |
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
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Posted - 2008.11.10 07:15:00 -
[29]
You know, most people got a long just fine in missions with 90% webs for 4+ years.
Somehow I think you'll survive.
Gosh, you people whine about anything. I'm surprised I haven't seen a Thread titled "But I LIKED that typo On my titan! I quit!!!" Besides, I'm never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down |
Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.11.10 07:39:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Last Wolf You know, most people got a long just fine in missions with 90% webs for 4+ years.
Somehow I think you'll survive.
Gosh, you people whine about anything. I'm surprised I haven't seen a Thread titled "But I LIKED that typo On my titan! I quit!!!"
Typical "Omg whiner! You dare object to something in the game! Whiner!" craptastic answer.
If you wish to argue, at least do it properly. Otherwise you're just trolling.
90% web for a ship that cost less than 200M to replace would be fine, because it would be used in pvp. Marauders used for pvp are the exception rather than the rule, therefore using pvp balance to justify a nerf is pretty stupid, imho.
Whatever, I'm adapting. I sold my Kronos, I'll sell my Paladin, and I'm training for a Golem... ------------------------------------------
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