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Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.11.09 20:44:00 -
[1]
Since CCP completely ignored player feedback in the marauder case, making the web bonus useless in it's intended role (hitting npc frigs with it's BS guns, as stated in the dev blog), the bonus should be removed completely, and replaced by something usefull, like an optimal bonus for the Paladin, And a second tracking bonus for the Kronos.
Flame away.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.11.09 20:47:00 -
[2]
How about they remove the tractor beam bonus, change the web bonus to 12% per level, and replace the tractor beam bonus with additional tracking and optimal bonuses for the Kronos and Paladin respectively?
In other words: under no circumstances should the web bonus be removed from the ships. That's the only thing currently saving them from becoming useless piles of crap.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
 Originally by: Horza Otho
[06:36:47] Horza Otho > its all good, everytime i fit a mega i play some mariah carey in the backround
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Furb Killer
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.09 20:57:00 -
[3]
Why is having webs roughly equal to current webs after patch useless? I dont know if it is enough to hit frigs, but it does for sure mean cruisers can be hit for full damage.
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dojocan81
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Posted - 2008.11.09 21:07:00 -
[4]
uh yeah, replace that stupid roXXor tractor beam bonus on the golem too !! gimme a 50% rof instead
please??kk!! thx
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Another Forum'Alt
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Posted - 2008.11.09 22:26:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Why is having webs roughly equal to current webs after patch useless? I dont know if it is enough to hit frigs, but it does for sure mean cruisers can be hit for full damage.
before nerf: 99%
after nerf: 90%
Yes, very equal...
As for being able to hit frigs, it means it is now 100% impossible, you could shoot one for a week straight and not hit.
Nerf Zulupark. NOW. |
Ocih
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Posted - 2008.11.09 22:33:00 -
[6]
With the sensor strength of a shuttle, nobody in thier right mind is going to put a Marauder in web range. Even with bonus range.
Eve combat will still be the same after the 11th.
Jam
Scram
Thank-you M'am.
and at a billion ISK, you really want your Marauder taking primary?
T2 BS are still useless in PvP and will remain so untill they can absorb T2 damage. |
Drunken Fury
Minmatar
It's A Trap
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Posted - 2008.11.09 22:38:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Drunken Fury on 09/11/2008 22:39:15
My main question is why are you guys useing your marauders main weapons to attack frigates?
You should be using your drones to do that.
BC's+ use your ships main weapons.
Cruisers- use your drones.
5 T2 Medium drones will rip through frigates and cruisers FAST. While that's happening, you pop the BS's and BC's.
(EDIT To the OP, I personally feel that the Web Bonus should be good a good one overall. I don't fly one of the marauders with a Web Bonus, but I too would like to see it buffed a little. I'd LOVE to fly the Amarr one. Dead sexy.)
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Another Forum'Alt
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Posted - 2008.11.09 22:45:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Another Forum''Alt on 09/11/2008 22:45:20
Originally by: Drunken Fury
Edited by: Drunken Fury on 09/11/2008 22:39:15
My main question is why are you guys useing your marauders main weapons to attack frigates?
You should be using your drones to do that.
BC's+ use your ships main weapons.
Cruisers- use your drones.
5 T2 Medium drones will rip through frigates and cruisers FAST. While that's happening, you pop the BS's and BC's.
(EDIT To the OP, I personally feel that the Web Bonus should be good a good one overall. I don't fly one of the marauders with a Web Bonus, but I too would like to see it buffed a little. I'd LOVE to fly the Amarr one. Dead sexy.)
Haven't you heard, drones are getting nerfed too
The entire point of marauders is they are designed to be able to kill huge numbers of EVERY NPC type, that includes frigs. Drones just aren't fast enough (the kronos has crap drones anyway, and the paladin is worse)
Nerf Zulupark. NOW. |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.11.09 22:48:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ocih
With the sensor strength of a shuttle, nobody in thier right mind is going to put a Marauder in web range. Even with bonus range.
Eve combat will still be the same after the 11th.
Jam
Scram
Thank-you M'am.
and at a billion ISK, you really want your Marauder taking primary?
T2 BS are still useless in PvP and will remain so untill they can absorb T2 damage.
I guess I'm out of my mind then lol. I probably PVP with a Kronos more than all the rest of Eve combined.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Originally by: Horza Otho
[06:36:47] Horza Otho > its all good, everytime i fit a mega i play some mariah carey in the backround
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Ocih
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Posted - 2008.11.09 22:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Ocih
With the sensor strength of a shuttle, nobody in thier right mind is going to put a Marauder in web range. Even with bonus range.
Eve combat will still be the same after the 11th.
Jam
Scram
Thank-you M'am.
and at a billion ISK, you really want your Marauder taking primary?
T2 BS are still useless in PvP and will remain so untill they can absorb T2 damage.
I guess I'm out of my mind then lol. I probably PVP with a Kronos more than all the rest of Eve combined.
You are right, you aren't.
I can fit any T1 Battleship to do the same things your Billion ISK T2 can do, maybe a few small variations. Not enough of a difference to justify an uninsured Billion ISK bulls eye.
On the PvE they don't even do that well. There are 2 kinds of 0.0 sec BS's. ones that have a Bounty of x,x00,000 ISK and ones that have a x,x50,000 ISK. The 00 ones orbit at 12km. The 50's orbit at 34km. I need more tractor range why? Ignore bounties that end in 50,000. Kill the other ones. Or just head to the 50,000 ones. The ones you are still shooting at will follow you. You need to move 14 km to get to the last one..
Golem mission runner. Good ship. Still will be after the 11th, Still not as good as a CNR though. Training time for a CNR is so much lower. |
DrefsabZN
Caldari
Butterfly Effect Corp.
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Posted - 2008.11.09 23:04:00 -
[11]
I always saw the marauder ships for missioning/ratting/plexing etc. Which is why before the patch I considered the Caldari one useless because 4 launchers with double damage while it sounds like pure win, you hit an npc with defenders and you have just lost so much dps.
Sure skills help but still your talking one or two missile's getting popped each salvo. Totally not worth the isk for the ship.
Now they nerf the web and missiles/drones/speed etc I and wondering just what a golem is going to be good for?
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.11.09 23:06:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Another Forum'Alt
Originally by: Furb Killer
Why is having webs roughly equal to current webs after patch useless? I dont know if it is enough to hit frigs, but it does for sure mean cruisers can be hit for full damage.
before nerf: 99%
after nerf: 90%
Yes, very equal...
As for being able to hit frigs, it means it is now 100% impossible, you could shoot one for a week straight and not hit.
One Marauder web used to be equal to two regular webs, now it's 2.51 of them, or more if you include the effects of the stacking nerf. It has, relative to a normal T2 web, actually gotten better with this patch.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.11.09 23:10:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Another Forum'Alt
Originally by: Furb Killer
Why is having webs roughly equal to current webs after patch useless? I dont know if it is enough to hit frigs, but it does for sure mean cruisers can be hit for full damage.
before nerf: 99%
after nerf: 90%
Yes, very equal...
As for being able to hit frigs, it means it is now 100% impossible, you could shoot one for a week straight and not hit.
One Marauder web used to be equal to two regular webs, now it's 2.51 of them, or more if you include the effects of the stacking nerf. It has, relative to a normal T2 web, actually gotten better with this patch.
Relative to what they used to be capable of, they got worse. You're doing t wrong. But then you're Caldari, so that's to be expected.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Originally by: Horza Otho
[06:36:47] Horza Otho > its all good, everytime i fit a mega i play some mariah carey in the backround
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Mag's
MASS
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Posted - 2008.11.09 23:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
One Marauder web used to be equal to two regular webs, now it's 2.51 of them, or more if you include the effects of the stacking nerf. It has, relative to a normal T2 web, actually gotten better with this patch.
So because everything else sucks, it got better. Priceless. 
Mag's
Originally by: Avernus
One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you. |
Dianeces
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.11.09 23:15:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Another Forum'Alt
The entire point of marauders is they are designed to be able to kill huge numbers of EVERY NPC type, that includes frigs. Drones just aren't fast enough (the kronos has crap drones anyway, and the paladin is worse)
Use light drones.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.11.09 23:16:00 -
[16]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 09/11/2008 23:16:45
Wrong, after the web nerf your webs will only be doing 66% web strength.
Seeing as you only get a 2% per level in web strength.
I bet if this happen you'd be all loving CCP when they inceased it to 10% per level, and people would be whining about them being overpowered.
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Mag's
MASS
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Posted - 2008.11.09 23:18:00 -
[17]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Edited by: MotherMoon on 09/11/2008 23:16:45
Wrong, after the web nerf your webs will only be doing 66% web strength.
Seeing as you only get a 2% per level in web strength.
I bet if this happen you'd be all loving CCP when they inceased it to 10% per level, and people would be whining about them being overpowered.
Ahh ninja edit.
You are wrong ofc
- The Kronos and Paladin have had their webifiers bonus increased from 2% to 10% per skill level
Mag's
Originally by: Avernus
One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you. |
Leviathan9
Gallente
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.11.09 23:48:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Shadowsword
Since CCP completely ignored player feedback in the marauder case, making the web bonus useless in it's intended role (hitting npc frigs with it's BS guns, as stated in the dev blog), the bonus should be removed completely, and replaced by something usefull, like an optimal bonus for the Paladin, And a second tracking bonus for the Kronos.
Flame away.
Make the Kronos a domi hull, and i'll be happy.
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Mag's
MASS
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Posted - 2008.11.09 23:49:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Leviathan9
Originally by: Shadowsword
Since CCP completely ignored player feedback in the marauder case, making the web bonus useless in it's intended role (hitting npc frigs with it's BS guns, as stated in the dev blog), the bonus should be removed completely, and replaced by something usefull, like an optimal bonus for the Paladin, And a second tracking bonus for the Kronos.
Flame away.
Make the Kronos a domi hull, and i'll be happy.
What? omg you don't mean that, say you don't mean that. 
Mag's
Originally by: Avernus
One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you. |
Fenren
Minmatar
Bure Astro Photography
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Posted - 2008.11.09 23:52:00 -
[20]
Originally by: DrefsabZN
I always saw the marauder ships for missioning/ratting/plexing etc. Which is why before the patch I considered the Caldari one useless because 4 launchers with double damage while it sounds like pure win, you hit an npc with defenders and you have just lost so much dps.
Sure skills help but still your talking one or two missile's getting popped each salvo. Totally not worth the isk for the ship.
Now they nerf the web and missiles/drones/speed etc I and wondering just what a golem is going to be good for?
and how many times does it have to be said: DEFENDERS HAVE A SERTAIN PERCENTAGE CHANSE TO BE LAUNCED PER MISSILE!
if you lost 2 out of 8 before you will lose 1 out of 4 per salvo, no matter how many missiles per salvo.
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Leviathan9
Gallente
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.11.10 00:16:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Leviathan9
Originally by: Shadowsword
Since CCP completely ignored player feedback in the marauder case, making the web bonus useless in it's intended role (hitting npc frigs with it's BS guns, as stated in the dev blog), the bonus should be removed completely, and replaced by something usefull, like an optimal bonus for the Paladin, And a second tracking bonus for the Kronos.
Flame away.
Make the Kronos a domi hull, and i'll be happy.
What? omg you don't mean that, say you don't mean that.
Well i could fly a t1 domi and perma tank lvl4s and afk do them.. or spend like 800mil on something that isn't nearly as good doing missions... i want a Marauder domi with a 100% dmg bonus to drones!!
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Typo91
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Posted - 2008.11.10 00:44:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Leviathan9
i want a Marauder domi with a 100% dmg bonus to drones!!
NOW THATS A SHIP I WOULD TAKE INTO PVP AND RISK 1 BIL ON!
sure it would get primaried and still die like a normal BS even with a SICK tank on it. but come on CCP!! 700mil for a BS should give us a BS that is actually Markedly better in damage output then a normal t1 bs.
Or is the Class "T2 ASSAULT BATTLESHIP" still reserved for the future? cause all the Assault t2 ships in the game do leaps and bounds more damage then their t1 counter parts.
My biggest hang up about maraduers is you can make a battleship beat it in every configuration.
At the very least, it would really considered for pvp if it had t2 resistances.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.11.10 01:29:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: MotherMoon
Edited by: MotherMoon on 09/11/2008 23:16:45
Wrong, after the web nerf your webs will only be doing 66% web strength.
Seeing as you only get a 2% per level in web strength.
I bet if this happen you'd be all loving CCP when they inceased it to 10% per level, and people would be whining about them being overpowered.
Ahh ninja edit.
You are wrong ofc
- The Kronos and Paladin have had their webifiers bonus increased from 2% to 10% per skill level
no, that was the point of my post.
that people would NOT be *****ing if they didn't change the bonus at all and THEN changed it to 10% because of people whining.
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Tau Chien
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Posted - 2008.11.10 04:33:00 -
[24]
Typo91 im totally disagreed with ya on this,im not sure if you are able to fly one of those awesome maradauer ship since you talked about " a 700m ship that out damage a t1 bs ". the ship cost is too much that is why most of us wouldnt use it for pvp but if u ever come across one, i dare you 1 on 1 with one of those ship.
Of course we all love to have an uber ship that would pwn anybody outhere but think about it, how powerful it could be for an assault bs with heavy dmg and high resistance?
what we need is higher insurance pay out for those ship, this is just my opinion, please discuss :)
TC
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2008.11.10 04:53:00 -
[25]
The Paladin need a change to its web bonus alright.
Atm I wouldn't take it out in PvP, rather blow up alot of ships for that bil, or buy another carrier, or a freighter for my alt, etc.
But for PvE.. well, it's too slow and dangerous in 0.0, normally I rat in cruiser or bc-hull. If I do fly bs-size I fly a cheap fitted Dominix that can salvage on the go.
And here's the key; in missions, the web bonus is totally useless. Doesn't matter if I fly with Tachyons or Mega Pulses. Extremely few NPC's go under 10km, there's spider drones and some destroyer and/or frigs orbiting at 2-7km, but most ships either orbit outside that range or die before they even reach you. I've flewn around with 13-14km webs just to *sometimes* get to web something (that my drones kill anyway, and my guns hit for poo). I've even overloaded the things just feel I'm using the web bonus for something. Eventually I threw the web out and swapped in a useful model.
The simple solution to this is to change the web bonus, to instead of having it add 2%/lvl, make it increase the web range by 1-2km/lvl (I'd love to see 40km+ webs, but then Rapier and officer-web-fitted pilots would whine their butt off). Maybe it would make it worthwhile to fit a web then. At least it would let me use Hammerheads instead of Hobgoblins. 
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Myung Chul
Gallente
Task Force Talon
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Posted - 2008.11.10 05:38:00 -
[26]
are u pvping in mission running attended ships... HELLO... made for mission runners all over it!!!!!
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Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.11.10 06:21:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Shadowsword on 10/11/2008 06:21:45
About the drone argument:
- Using drones make you much easier to probe.
- NPC spawns that haven't aggroed you will often fire on your drones.
- Drones can sometimes make you cause more aggro that you intend to.
+ I found myself once in a situation were only the dual usage of drones and guns allowed me to kill the npc tacklers fast enough to get out.
But that's rather besides the point. The point is that those ships came out with the ability to mass-swat frig-sized targets as one of their selling arguments, like the large cargo, reduced ammo usage, and tractor bonuses, and now that ability is removed, for no better argument that it might be overpowered in scenarios that might affect maybe 3% of their intended usage.
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Angel Lightbringer
Dark Evolution Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.10 07:05:00 -
[28]
Originally by: DrefsabZN
I always saw the marauder ships for missioning/ratting/plexing etc. Which is why before the patch I considered the Caldari one useless because 4 launchers with double damage while it sounds like pure win, you hit an npc with defenders and you have just lost so much dps.
Sure skills help but still your talking one or two missile's getting popped each salvo. Totally not worth the isk for the ship.
Now they nerf the web and missiles/drones/speed etc I and wondering just what a golem is going to be good for?
As a current Golem mission runner, I tell you it's all good. Nevermind the defenders, you more often than not fly past them it's a funny look.
I, indeed, await the patch and wonder what it's gonna be like. Some people mentioned it was quite the same, I'll see soon enough.
As for right now, I tell you it's well worth the ISK my friend. Haven't flew a CNR tho, I can't compare.
-Angel |
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
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Posted - 2008.11.10 07:15:00 -
[29]
You know, most people got a long just fine in missions with 90% webs for 4+ years.
Somehow I think you'll survive.
Gosh, you people whine about anything. I'm surprised I haven't seen a Thread titled "But I LIKED that typo On my titan! I quit!!!"
Besides, I'm never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down |
Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.11.10 07:39:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Last Wolf
You know, most people got a long just fine in missions with 90% webs for 4+ years.
Somehow I think you'll survive.
Gosh, you people whine about anything. I'm surprised I haven't seen a Thread titled "But I LIKED that typo On my titan! I quit!!!"
Typical "Omg whiner! You dare object to something in the game! Whiner!" craptastic answer.
If you wish to argue, at least do it properly. Otherwise you're just trolling.
90% web for a ship that cost less than 200M to replace would be fine, because it would be used in pvp. Marauders used for pvp are the exception rather than the rule, therefore using pvp balance to justify a nerf is pretty stupid, imho.
Whatever, I'm adapting. I sold my Kronos, I'll sell my Paladin, and I'm training for a Golem...
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.11.10 07:45:00 -
[31]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 10/11/2008 07:49:57
Edited by: MotherMoon on 10/11/2008 07:49:32
Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Last Wolf
You know, most people got a long just fine in missions with 90% webs for 4+ years.
Somehow I think you'll survive.
Gosh, you people whine about anything. I'm surprised I haven't seen a Thread titled "But I LIKED that typo On my titan! I quit!!!"
Typical "Omg whiner! You dare object to something in the game! Whiner!" craptastic answer.
CCP GIVE YOU THE MOST OVERPOWERED WEB IN THE GAME AND YOU ARE ****ED OFF ABOUT IT?!?!?!?!?!?!?
WHY! WHY! WHY!
it used to only be 10% better now it's ***ing 50% stronger than any web in the game!
OMG your such idoits.
You don't eve care about al the other people flying battleships for level 4s do you? they have to use 60% webs and you get 90%. But no no this isn't about mission balance, oh no, it's about your one ship that has a MASSIVE advantage after nerf compared to normal mission runners.
they have increased the PvE ships usefulness by 500% when compared to normal battleships. Get over it they are just going to ignore you.
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Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
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Posted - 2008.11.10 07:46:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Last Wolf
You know, most people got a long just fine in missions with 90% webs for 4+ years.
Somehow I think you'll survive.
Gosh, you people whine about anything. I'm surprised I haven't seen a Thread titled "But I LIKED that typo On my titan! I quit!!!"
Typical "Omg whiner! You dare object to something in the game! Whiner!" craptastic answer.
If you wish to argue, at least do it properly. Otherwise you're just trolling.
90% web for a ship that cost less than 200M to replace would be fine, because it would be used in pvp. Marauders used for pvp are the exception rather than the rule, therefore using pvp balance to justify a nerf is pretty stupid, imho.
Whatever, I'm adapting. I sold my Kronos, I'll sell my Paladin, and I'm training for a Golem...
Good luck with the Golem. Hope you have a rapier alt to keep things webbed/painted, otherwise you're gonna be much better off with your horrible 90% webs and a kronos/Paladin.
Besides, I'm never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down |
Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.11.10 08:16:00 -
[33]
Originally by: dojocan81
uh yeah, replace that stupid roXXor tractor beam bonus on the golem too !! gimme a 50% rof instead
please??kk!! thx
No way! If you know how to use the tractor, it is the biggest income multiplier on ANY ship!
Marauders are mission/npc'ing ship designs, not PvP....
Besides, CCP already said that T2 battleships would not be wtfpwnmobiles, but would have special abilities instead.
A 50% rof increase would make the Golem have an equivalent of 12 launchers. I can say with some certainty that you'll never get that.
Oh, and educate yourself on 'game balance' before you make other foolish suggestions....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
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Posted - 2008.11.10 08:23:00 -
[34]
Originally by: MotherMoon
it used to only be 10% better now it's ***ing 50% stronger than any web in the game!
Actually.
60% web = 1000m/s ship goes 400m/s
90% web = 1000m/s ship goes 100m/s
Marauders web is 400% better than every other web in the game
Besides, I'm never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down |
dojocan81
|
Posted - 2008.11.10 10:55:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: dojocan81
uh yeah, replace that stupid roXXor tractor beam bonus on the golem too !! gimme a 50% rof instead
please??kk!! thx
No way! If you know how to use the tractor, it is the biggest income multiplier on ANY ship!
Marauders are mission/npc'ing ship designs, not PvP....
Besides, CCP already said that T2 battleships would not be wtfpwnmobiles, but would have special abilities instead.
A 50% rof increase would make the Golem have an equivalent of 12 launchers. I can say with some certainty that you'll never get that.
Oh, and educate yourself on 'game balance' before you make other foolish suggestions....
honestly, this was a f***** joke, but ... you didnt get it, right ?
pie?
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.11.10 10:57:00 -
[36]
People obviously haven't learned how to drag in frigates with the tractor beams
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Another Forum'Alt
|
Posted - 2008.11.10 11:00:00 -
[37]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Edited by: MotherMoon on 10/11/2008 07:49:57
Edited by: MotherMoon on 10/11/2008 07:49:32
Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Last Wolf
You know, most people got a long just fine in missions with 90% webs for 4+ years.
Somehow I think you'll survive.
Gosh, you people whine about anything. I'm surprised I haven't seen a Thread titled "But I LIKED that typo On my titan! I quit!!!"
Typical "Omg whiner! You dare object to something in the game! Whiner!" craptastic answer.
CCP GIVE YOU THE MOST OVERPOWERED WEB IN THE GAME AND YOU ARE ****ED OFF ABOUT IT?!?!?!?!?!?!?
WHY! WHY! WHY!
it used to only be 10% better now it's ***ing 50% stronger than any web in the game!
OMG your such idoits.
You don't eve care about al the other people flying battleships for level 4s do you? they have to use 60% webs and you get 90%. But no no this isn't about mission balance, oh no, it's about your one ship that has a MASSIVE advantage after nerf compared to normal mission runners.
they have increased the PvE ships usefulness by 500% when compared to normal battleships. Get over it they are just going to ignore you.
Considering it is a pve specialised ship which costs 7-8 times as much as a level 2 bs and 15 or so times as much as a level 1 bs, it is justified.
If someone wants to fly it into pvp for the epic web, let them. They are flying a 750m ship, which will be primaried and instapopped instantly (plus it can be permajammed by a blackbird )
Nerf Zulupark. NOW. |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
|
Posted - 2008.11.10 11:04:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Last Wolf
Originally by: MotherMoon
it used to only be 10% better now it's ***ing 50% stronger than any web in the game!
Actually.
60% web = 1000m/s ship goes 400m/s
90% web = 1000m/s ship goes 100m/s
Marauders web is 400% better than every other web in the game
Webber used to be 99% effective, now it's 90%. That's a 90% decrease in effectiveness. The Kronos' web bonus was nerfed harder than anything else that was changed in QR.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Originally by: Horza Otho
[06:36:47] Horza Otho > its all good, everytime i fit a mega i play some mariah carey in the backround
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Poz McAIDS
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Posted - 2008.11.10 11:22:00 -
[39]
I've seen an officer / faction fit Paladin used in PVP quite often.
and it really is pwnsauce, sure it can be jammed quite easily, but the tank on it is incredible.
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Mikal Drey
Minmatar
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.10 11:33:00 -
[40]
hey hey
to the OP : Try using a Vargur.
if you fly a vargur you know what im talking bout. if you dont then your already in a better marauder :'''(
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Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.11.10 11:51:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Poz McAIDS
I've seen an officer / faction fit Paladin used in PVP quite often.
and it really is pwnsauce, sure it can be jammed quite easily, but the tank on it is incredible.
And they die fast anyway, and cost lots to replace...
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DrefsabZN
Caldari
Butterfly Effect Corp.
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Posted - 2008.11.10 11:51:00 -
[42]
Still the fact remains that CCP are making the Marauder class of ship useless for their intended roll. Ether that or I really misunderstand their roll.
A mission/plex/ratting specific ship should basically give you some reason to want to use it for those things over the competition worth the massive price tag and much higher skill requirements to fly one.
CNR > Golem in lvl 4 missions (if only because defenders kill to much of the Golems dps).
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Mikal Drey
Minmatar
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.10 12:03:00 -
[43]
Originally by: DrefsabZN
Still the fact remains that CCP are making the Marauder class of ship useless for their intended roll. Ether that or I really misunderstand their roll.
it took me a while to get into the marauder class mostly because i love flying the claymore on missions and the price tag is indeed high.
the marauders are well designed into the pve role and do pve very well. the 3 slots for highs without the loss of damage has interesting possibilities. the tractor bonus is surprisingly awesome. they also have additional cargo space for loot collecting. if you look at the marauder from the side you can see the direction that ccp took and you start to realise that pve and marauders isnt just about running L4's.
i do have various opionions on the Vargur but the OP is about the kronos/paladin. however i would certainly say that crying about its already overpowered web bonus isnt warranted.
i will just add that untill i activly flew one i also missunderstood its role and the reasons why its gimped to ****.
the price tag is very high but with invention the new way to generate TII ships it will be something we have no choice but to live with atm.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.10 12:08:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/11/2008 12:08:00
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Webber used to be 99% effective, now it's 90%. That's a 90% decrease in effectiveness. The Kronos' web bonus was nerfed harder than anything else that was changed in QR.
No.
Webber on a Kronos got nerfed by a factor of ten (ships are 10 times faster), which is actually 1000%.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
DrefsabZN
Caldari
Butterfly Effect Corp.
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Posted - 2008.11.10 12:29:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Mikal Drey
i will just add that untill i activly flew one i also missunderstood its role and the reasons why its gimped to ****.
I guess I do just have to get one to truly understand whats good and bad about them, I just didn't see quite what was so great about them before this patch so was even more worried about them with the changes. But hey ho it all fun plus I guess they could be all kinds of awesome in a plex with other people who use missiles to :)
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Cire XIII
Caldari
Ever Flow
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.11.10 12:44:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/11/2008 12:08:00
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Webber used to be 99% effective, now it's 90%. That's a 90% decrease in effectiveness. The Kronos' web bonus was nerfed harder than anything else that was changed in QR.
No.
Webber on a Kronos got nerfed by a factor of ten (ships are 10 times faster), which is actually 1000%.
(99%-90%)/99% x 100% looks like a 9.1% decrease to me
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Saint |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.10 12:46:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/11/2008 12:55:16
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/11/2008 12:46:37
Originally by: Cire XIII
(99%-90%)/99% x 100% looks like a 9.1% decrease to me
Webifier effect pre-nerf: speed reduced by 100 times, or rather 10000%.
Webifier effect post-nerf: speed reduced by 10 times, or rather 1000%.
?
Question for you: does boosting your resistance from 0% to 50% constitute a 50% boost to damage mitigation?
Does a 5% resist mod boost your resists from 90% to 95%?
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.10 12:54:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Last Wolf
You know, most people got a long just fine in missions with 90% webs for 4+ years.
Somehow I think you'll survive.
Gosh, you people whine about anything. I'm surprised I haven't seen a Thread titled "But I LIKED that typo On my titan! I quit!!!"
Typical "Omg whiner! You dare object to something in the game! Whiner!" craptastic answer.
If you wish to argue, at least do it properly. Otherwise you're just trolling.
90% web for a ship that cost less than 200M to replace would be fine, because it would be used in pvp. Marauders used for pvp are the exception rather than the rule, therefore using pvp balance to justify a nerf is pretty stupid, imho.
Whatever, I'm adapting. I sold my Kronos, I'll sell my Paladin, and I'm training for a Golem...
I would like to see your face when you try out your golem first :D
That huge dissapointment ooooooooooooohhhhhhhhh would be awesome.
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.10 12:55:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/11/2008 12:46:37
Originally by: Cire XIII
(99%-90%)/99% x 100% looks like a 9.1% decrease to me
Webifier effect pre-nerf: speed reduced by 100 times, or rather 10000%.
Webifier effect post-nerf: speed reduced by 10 times, or rather 1000%.
?
Question for you: does boosting your resistance from 0% to 50% constitute a 50% boost to damage mitigation?
Use drones for smaller class than your ship noobs.... Thats what ccp says!!!
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.10 12:57:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/11/2008 12:58:46
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/11/2008 12:58:35
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Use drones for smaller class than your ship noobs.... Thats what ccp says!!!
Well, unless you have spare dronebay, that might require quite a bit of gimping yourself as ships are in reality balanced around full drone bandwidth usage.
Marauders are operated with Falcon alts anyway (largely because any ECM ship will mess them up due to friglike sensor str, griffin included, and naturally because if you're operating solo you at least want a anti-falcon measure on such a expensive ship), so it's not too big of issue to be honest, and 90% webs do the trick ok.
Just saying that people's maths suck - saying it's a 9% nerf or whatever is much like saying boosting your resists from 90% to 99% is a 9% boost to resists 
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Xano Heroma
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.11.10 12:59:00 -
[51]
as paladin pilot I have to agree with the OP, the webber bonus is useless !...
when I first startet flying the paladin I fitted a webber,,,
but it became clear really quick that it was not worth the mid slot it took up.
so every since I've not been using a webber....
the paladin webber bonus is a "noo matter" bonus |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.10 13:00:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Xano Heroma
as paladin pilot I have to agree with the OP, the webber bonus is useless !...
when I first startet flying the paladin I fitted a webber,,,
but it became clear really quick that it was not worth the mid slot it took up.
so every since I've not been using a webber....
the paladin webber bonus is a "noo matter" bonus
For mission farming. Who cares anyway - a sentry Dominix can still just AFK through any mission, why bother with a Marauder for that?
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Xano Heroma
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.11.10 13:05:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Xano Heroma
as paladin pilot I have to agree with the OP, the webber bonus is useless !...
when I first startet flying the paladin I fitted a webber,,,
but it became clear really quick that it was not worth the mid slot it took up.
so every since I've not been using a webber....
the paladin webber bonus is a "noo matter" bonus
For mission farming. Who cares anyway - a sentry Dominix can still just AFK through any mission, why bother with a Marauder for that?
an afk domi is great agreed :O) for missions
mauruders are also great for missions ( but works in a different in a different way ) depends on how you like to do missions...
(or if you'r like me,that dislike the gallente,,hehe)
yearh for pvp,,,, i guess the webber bonus is great on mauruders,,, but using a mauruder in pvp is like using isk as toilet paper ;O) |
Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.10 13:17:00 -
[54]
Maybe it could be changet to 5% bonus for tp sign radius increase. That could work.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.10 13:18:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Maybe it could be changet to 5% bonus for tp sign radius increase. That could work.
And heavily nerf it in webrange ;P
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.11.10 13:41:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Kerfira on 10/11/2008 13:42:24
Originally by: DrefsabZN
CNR > Golem in lvl 4 missions (if only because defenders kill to much of the Golems dps).
Huh? Defenders kill exactly 0% (zero percent) of a Golem's DPS.
In the Golem (contrary to the CNR), you have a ship that can easily fit torps as well as a decent tank. The painter and shield boost bonus are perfect for this.
In addition you can loot most of the scene while doing the mission, and gather up all wrecks in one nice location ready for easy salvage.
If you fitted cruise missiles on a Golem, you should be ashamed of yourself..... 
PS: Also learn how NPC defenders work. Each missile has X% chance of getting targeted by a defender. For cruise missiles, that means that X% of damage is negated no matter 100% damage bonus or not. Torps are not killed by 1 defender so are immune.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Shu'Kam
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Posted - 2008.11.10 14:40:00 -
[57]
I agree with op. web bonus is useless. Ive never used the web bonus on either kronos or paladin for pve.
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Pry Maraai
Amarr
Butterfly Fury
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Posted - 2008.11.10 14:59:00 -
[58]
I love the webber on my paladin, and the 90% web effect will probably be ok if the NPC cruisers/frigs have been put inline with the rest of the speed changes.
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Wannabehero
Caldari
Absolutely No Retreat
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Posted - 2008.11.10 15:42:00 -
[59]
I don't see any change coming for the Marauder web bonuses.
It is ninja balancing
The Golem needs to pack 2 TP's now or a TP and a Faction Web to maintain previous mission efficacy when dealing with smaller targets.
Likewise, the Kronos and the Paladin now require 2 Webs to maintain their omg frigate pwnage ability.
The Golem, Kronos, and Paladin now all require one additional mid to be used to effectively deal with smaller ships.
The Vargur... well... is the Vargur. It has always been able to deal effectively with ships up close (AC tracking + bonus + speed), it just the ones at range that are a problem (unless fitting artillery )
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Don't harsh my mellow |
Mikal Drey
Minmatar
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.10 17:42:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Mikal Drey on 10/11/2008 17:42:53
Originally by: Wannabehero
The Vargur... well... is the Vargur. It has always been able to deal effectively with ships up close (AC tracking + bonus + speed), it just the ones at range that are a problem (unless fitting artillery )
you would be surprised how well arties do :)
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.11.10 22:14:00 -
[61]
I just find it utterly hilarious how the OP suggests a second tracking bonus as replacement. A tracking bonus adds 37.5% to your tracking, whereas a 90% web adds 900% to your tracking. Even with a range limit, switching is hardly a buff.
As for shooting frigates, every marauder has room for a rack of mediums and a rack of lights. Use them to kill the small stuff, use the guns on the battleships and battlecruisers. It's not really hard.
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Wannabehero
Caldari
Absolutely No Retreat
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Posted - 2008.11.10 22:57:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Wannabehero on 10/11/2008 23:05:25
removed, wasn't very nice.
900%? You cannot post a finite number for the bonus tracking tracking to a turret because the equation a) contains an unknown variable (range) that heavily dictates outcome of the equation and b) contains limits (0% - 100% hit chance).
That is all
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Don't harsh my mellow |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.11.10 23:59:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Wannabehero
Edited by: Wannabehero on 10/11/2008 23:34:04
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
a 90% web adds 900% to your tracking.
Threw me through a loop with this one. Made me revisit the tracking formula. Crazy stuff.
For anyone wondering about the math, if you're tracking them at 1/10th the necessary rate, and then web them down to 1/10th their former speed, you're now tracking them perfectly, assuming they fly the same path afterwards(which NPCs will, of course). Effectively, you just multiplied your tracking against that ship by a factor of 10, which is 1000% better than before, or a 900% increase. |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.11 00:44:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/11/2008 00:44:38
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
For anyone wondering about the math, if you're tracking them at 1/10th the necessary rate, and then web them down to 1/10th their former speed, you're now tracking them perfectly, assuming they fly the same path afterwards(which NPCs will, of course). Effectively, you just multiplied your tracking against that ship by a factor of 10, which is 1000% better than before, or a 900% increase.
Don't educate people on eve-online forums. I much prefer them clueless.
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Wannabehero
Caldari
Absolutely No Retreat
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Posted - 2008.11.11 01:46:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Wannabehero
Edited by: Wannabehero on 10/11/2008 23:34:04
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
a 90% web adds 900% to your tracking.
Threw me through a loop with this one. Made me revisit the tracking formula. Crazy stuff.
For anyone wondering about the math, if you're tracking them at 1/10th the necessary rate, and then web them down to 1/10th their former speed, you're now tracking them perfectly, assuming they fly the same path afterwards(which NPCs will, of course). Effectively, you just multiplied your tracking against that ship by a factor of 10, which is 1000% better than before, or a 900% increase.
Tracking Penalty = Transversal / (signature * tracking)
Correct? Hence x/10 for Transversal = 10*x for tracking assuming signature is constant.
I understood the math fine, but the similarity between 90% and 900% set off a red flag in my head and made me search through my folder of formula and resources until I found the one with the tracking formula written on it. The tracking formula was something I hadn't hasseled around with academically for a long time.
--
Don't harsh my mellow |
Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.11.11 23:39:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
I just find it utterly hilarious how the OP suggests a second tracking bonus as replacement. A tracking bonus adds 37.5% to your tracking, whereas a 90% web adds 900% to your tracking. Even with a range limit, switching is hardly a buff.
Try training reading comprehension behond lv1, ok?
I never suggested another tracking bonus for the kronos would make you hit frigs with a 90% web. I stated it would be a usefull bonus overall for the Kronos.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.11 23:44:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
I just find it utterly hilarious how the OP suggests a second tracking bonus as replacement. A tracking bonus adds 37.5% to your tracking, whereas a 90% web adds 900% to your tracking. Even with a range limit, switching is hardly a buff.
Try training reading comprehension behond lv1, ok?
I never suggested another tracking bonus for the kronos would make you hit frigs with a 90% web. I stated it would be a usefull bonus overall for the Kronos.
Yeah, but I would rather take the useful 4x increase in tracking (difference between normal web and Kronos web) rather then the also useful 1.375x increase in tracking, for some odd reason.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.11.12 00:22:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
I just find it utterly hilarious how the OP suggests a second tracking bonus as replacement. A tracking bonus adds 37.5% to your tracking, whereas a 90% web adds 900% to your tracking. Even with a range limit, switching is hardly a buff.
Try training reading comprehension behond lv1, ok?
I never suggested another tracking bonus for the kronos would make you hit frigs with a 90% web. I stated it would be a usefull bonus overall for the Kronos.
A tracking bonus is good, yes. Nothing wrong with having one. But if my concern is hitting things that are out-tracking me, most of that happens in close proximity to my ship(i.e., within web range), especially when fighting NPCs, a web slows them down more than and plausible tracking bonus will speed me up. If you fit one web, your effective tracking will be 3.4375x base with your bonuses and 10x base with mine, compared to the 2.5x base you get from a plain T2 web. In other words, a Kronos with present bonuses and a web tracks about three times as well as a Kronos with your proposed bonuses and a web within 10 km, and only 27% worse outside that range.
So yeah, for the Kronos' role - mostly PvE - I claim that the current bonus is better than a second tracking bonus.
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