Armor reps are more efficient but repair less.

Shield boosters can be made more efficient with a shield booster amplifier and with core defense capacitor safeguards.

Armor reps can be made more efficient with energized adaptive nano plating and auxilliary nano pumps.

By the time you get your electrons in range, your fat ass is still dead.

You talk about how amazing they are with dual armor repairers, but then you use drugs and people with gang links. As it has been stated somewhere in the forums you can get a nearly 700 DPS tank out of the thorax with gang links, and doesn't include drugs. Does that mean armor tanks are amazing? Absolutely not. Try that thorax out by itself without drugs and see how pitiful it becomes. Most people won't be using gang links or drugs to increase their tank. Gang links, drugs, and hardwirings should be bonuses, not requirements to tank decently.

Look at this pretty disappointing brutix:
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/125/brutixexample.jpg
I'd say this is a pretty typical fit of how the brutix was meant to be flown. As you can see it has the level 5 pilot. Keep in mind that hardly anyone maxes every skill for every single module on the ship. In actuality this brutix will do worse on a normal pilot. It doesn't include the massive bonuses with gang links, drugs, or cybernetics 5 implants (7%). A rig slot must be sacrificed to give powergrid just to fit this simple fit. There's nothing crazy about it. The brutix simply lacks the powergrid to get a normal fit on it.

With multiple repairers you can cheat and keep one repairer overloaded for as long as you have navy cap booster 800s. When one is close to breaking you can set it back to normal operation and overload the other repairer. I included that bonus in that fit. In addition to helping the short term tank, it also provides more efficiency for long term as overloading gives 10% bonus to repair amount to that module. However, the armor repair amount is still disappointing even with all level 5s. If you want more efficiency you can replace that accelerator with another aux nano pump, although the short term tank will suffer a little more. Three armor repairers isn't practical on this ship, and probably isn't even possible. It doesn't even have enough powergrid for two. There really isn't enough low slots to use hardeners, so on average, EANMs are best.

Have you flown that fit?

Oh, I think ~1200dps~ is plenty good reason to fly it shield gank!

How can I fly that fit? I'm only a month old.

Needing to put a light shield buffer on it to get 1200 DPS shows how broken the ship really is. I think you seriously overestimate that 400 DPS tank. It's quite pitiful given how high damage can get. It's rather silly, but that 1200 DPS brutix will melt this proper brutix in no time at all. You appear to be rather excited that a ship can be flown completely improperly and put out such a completely absurd amount of damage. But, why use this ship for absurd DPS when the talos can do even more? This game is headed in the wrong direction.

Sure, the myrmidon can start tanking decently once you put three repairers on it, put electrons in the high, and put dual cap boosters in the mids. I suppose you could put any turrets in the high since the turrets aren't bonused. But again, to use that much powergrid and capacitor to have a moderate tank is a bit disappointing.

As stated, armor != shields.

-Most active tanked armor ships have the slot-layout, cap, and grid to fit dual armor reps. Most shield ships can only fit one booster effectively.

-Armor tanking gets an oversize plate (1600mm), the highest shield extender (large) is comparable to the 800mm plate.

-Shield tanking gets an oversized booster (XL booster) and a shield boost amplifier (I think its ~25% bonus to rep).

-Active shield tanking is more cap-intensive and reps at the beginning of the cycle. Active armor tanking reps at the end of the cycle, but is much more cap efficient.

-Armor tanking doesn't use up utility midslots, shield tanking typically does. Active shield tanking (usually) doesn't use up potential damage mods in the low slots.

-Armor gets more variety in their resist mods, getting passive invulns (Energized and non-energized adaptive nanos), passive damage-specific passive hardners (Energized and non-energized), and active hardners. Shield gets active invulns and hardners that are cap dependant but stronger than armor equivalent, but only one type of passive hardner.


So yeah, armor and shield active tanking are quite different, as are the slot layouts and fitting specs of the ships that use both tanks.

You did read my post? My point was really that you cannot talk about "they", as active tanking works spectacularly on Myrmidon, while on Brutix the crazy amount of deeps is generally seen as more desirable.

'm completely against your idea that ships should have just a single "proper way to fly". Fitting ships is huge part of the sandbox, why do you sound like you wish to take that freedom away? I love tweaking fits and see what I can make them do. And I wouldn't call my gank Brutix improper, it's... indecent Twisted

this thread is a rant


taking links, drugs, implants and faction into account you get about the same active tanks on both armor and shields

So wrong man, just so wrong.

the problem with these active rep boats (mrym and Hyperion) is so numerous for PVP its almost worthless except very small gang/1v1 kind of stuff. Which is why buffer (either shield or armor is used.) Which also means 1 of the 2 ship bonuses for the ship is wasted, which makes them less than optimal and thus far less flown. If there is anything I wish CCP would do is get rid of these armor rep bonuses for these two ships. But anyways...

1) Fact: You really can't kite in a armor repping Mrym or Hyp so you will be fighting in close. This also really has to be done for weapons choice and the slow speed of drones (particularly the heavies). If you try to be clever and try to put long range guns and active rep presents some serious fitting issues and for the myrm makes the drones worthless. (and sentries are no solution as they suck for most pvp situations)

2) So that said a 3 rep mrym if fully gang bonused/exile boosted etc is decent until 1-2 ships put neuts on it. Even with the dual cap boosters you can find yourself struggling. And when your cargo is empty, you die. (ie why they are always fit with auto cannons-no cap usage). The dps of a triple rep mrym is rather meh...
3) And you will be in neut range because of point 1. Heavy neuts absolutely kill this set up and 1-2 high alpha ships on the field will rip it to pieces (tornado for example or even 2-3 destroyers)
4) The hyp is even more ineffective because you are going to use hybrids on it. So now you have cap hungry guns, cap hungry mid slots, you have to mwd to get into range, you have to turn armor reps on, its sig radius is huge so you take max damage from torps etc. So cap is a issue and then 1-2 ships puts a neut on you and your dead in the water. Plus the hyp doesn't really have the low slots for a proper armor tank with active reps. I won't even get into its pathetic drone capability. Thus its the baby seal of the BS fleet. At the end of the day, blasters need to not use CAP before any of these boats will work... its just a mess. Anyways the long list of how these boats are broken are almost too long to list.

Because variety is a good thing, contrary to popular belief

Passive shield tanking causes your signature radious to bloat, which has serious consequences.

As far as I know, armour plates add mass to your ship, which makes it slow. So shield ships are faster but easier to hit.

I've found serious trouble keeping cap up against neuts particularly when 3-4 canes run the mediums on you and catch you at a bad cycle point. I've flown a Mrym almost exclusively for 1 1/2 years so I do feel somewhat versed in it. I've particularly noticed it having a great deal of difficulty against the high alpha boats, when 3-4 tornado' primary you.

Ok, I read people writing up there that they fit both ion and electron on a Hype. Didn't exactly understand why because I've never flown one myself so I went ahead and fitted one in Pyfa. Now I know why they do that ... because there isn't even enough power grid to fit a full set of Ions ... Seriously? Are you ******* kidding me CCP?

Take a good hard look at this http://cl.ly/1C342B0Q2c0I2B0Q3g1Y
Even at Level 5, you can't fit a full rack of Ions? Why? What's the purpose of the 5% bonus to large hybrid turrets anymore if you can't even fit it to the optimal potential? To top it all off, there's that active armor tanking problem ... And that's a pretty damn basic dual rep fitting for a Hype that attempts to utilize the 2 bonus that it's given. I honestly don't know how much simpler that fit can be.

omfg, no wonder no one flies a Hyperion.

You know what CCP, I like this game very much for what a player can do and accomplish and also for the people that you can interact with but to be honest, I think that you fail as game developers on the part of fixing and improving the game. I hope you're reading this CCP ,.!..

coolbeans, so at the end, both have it's advantages and disadvantages ... nice ...

Anyways, the only effectively armor repper gallente ships that i know are the myrmidon and hyperion because they have the bonus. Does that mean that every other gallente ship should be buffer tank?

I've seen some gallente ships with repairs module but for the majority, ships such as the vexor, thorax, dominix or the megathron, I've never seen anyone fit reppers on them when pvp. Does that mean that these ships are better off buffer tanking and not active tanking?

Have YOU ever fit reppers on these ships when pvping? If so then how did that work?

(I tried active tanking a Talos ... it's the equivalent of active tanking a frigate)

????? dual armor rep domi???????

Please. The Dominix is not for pvp.

I really hope you're trolling...