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GUI - It needs some serious work for Shiva!

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ErrorS	Posted - 2004.07.06 22:45:00 - [31] you don't need 40fps, or even 60fps.. but it looks damn nice. 60hz would most definitely improve the gameplay for me.. thats just how i am, looks + functionality .. instead of only functionality. and i dare someone to tell me the human eye can't see over 30hz! ________ I'm strict Caldari "The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think? -ErrorS
ErrorS	Posted - 2004.07.06 22:45:00 - [32] you don't need 40fps, or even 60fps.. but it looks damn nice. 60hz would most definitely improve the gameplay for me.. thats just how i am, looks + functionality .. instead of only functionality. and i dare someone to tell me the human eye can't see over 30hz! ________ I'm strict Caldari "The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think? -ErrorS
Righteous Fury	Posted - 2004.07.06 22:53:00 - [33] Edited by: Righteous Fury on 06/07/2004 22:55:04 There's also a memory leak that needs to be looked at. Thought I'd post it here because it kind of goes. Atm i'm running one copy of eve with nothing else running: eve.exe - 333,388k mem usage. Thats insane. With 786mb of RAM, I'm down to about 10% left at any given time. When I close eve, that number rockets back up to 70% or 80%
Righteous Fury	Posted - 2004.07.06 22:53:00 - [34] Edited by: Righteous Fury on 06/07/2004 22:55:04 There's also a memory leak that needs to be looked at. Thought I'd post it here because it kind of goes. Atm i'm running one copy of eve with nothing else running: eve.exe - 333,388k mem usage. Thats insane. With 786mb of RAM, I'm down to about 10% left at any given time. When I close eve, that number rockets back up to 70% or 80%
Arud	Posted - 2004.07.06 22:58:00 - [35] Originally by: ErrorS you don't need 40fps, or even 60fps.. but it looks damn nice. 60hz would most definitely improve the gameplay for me.. thats just how i am, looks + functionality .. instead of only functionality. and i dare someone to tell me the human eye can't see over 30hz! I guess you have never been into a fleet battle and have never discussed framerates with people who know what they are talking about
Arud	Posted - 2004.07.06 22:58:00 - [36] Originally by: ErrorS you don't need 40fps, or even 60fps.. but it looks damn nice. 60hz would most definitely improve the gameplay for me.. thats just how i am, looks + functionality .. instead of only functionality. and i dare someone to tell me the human eye can't see over 30hz! I guess you have never been into a fleet battle and have never discussed framerates with people who know what they are talking about
NAFnist	Posted - 2004.07.06 22:58:00 - [37] Originally by: ErrorS and i dare someone to tell me the human eye can't see over 30hz! It can't, but higher fps/hz gives a more clear picture. That why 100hz TV's is better. It has nothing to do with how many picture/sec your eye can see. _____________
NAFnist	Posted - 2004.07.06 22:58:00 - [38] Originally by: ErrorS and i dare someone to tell me the human eye can't see over 30hz! It can't, but higher fps/hz gives a more clear picture. That why 100hz TV's is better. It has nothing to do with how many picture/sec your eye can see. _____________
Doppleganger	Posted - 2004.07.06 23:01:00 - [39] Originally by: Righteous Fury Edited by: Righteous Fury on 06/07/2004 22:55:04 There's also a memory leak that needs to be looked at. Thought I'd post it here because it kind of goes. Atm i'm running one copy of eve with nothing else running: eve.exe - 333,388k mem usage. Thats insane. With 786mb of RAM, I'm down to about 10% left at any given time. When I close eve, that number rockets back up to 70% or 80% Actually I'm kinda happy if Eve only uses 333 megs, at one time it had such a bad memory leak I can remember it using 450-520 megs on my machine.
Doppleganger	Posted - 2004.07.06 23:01:00 - [40] Originally by: Righteous Fury Edited by: Righteous Fury on 06/07/2004 22:55:04 There's also a memory leak that needs to be looked at. Thought I'd post it here because it kind of goes. Atm i'm running one copy of eve with nothing else running: eve.exe - 333,388k mem usage. Thats insane. With 786mb of RAM, I'm down to about 10% left at any given time. When I close eve, that number rockets back up to 70% or 80% Actually I'm kinda happy if Eve only uses 333 megs, at one time it had such a bad memory leak I can remember it using 450-520 megs on my machine.
Synex	Posted - 2004.07.06 23:07:00 - [41] Originally by: ErrorS you don't need 40fps, or even 60fps.. but it looks damn nice. 60hz would most definitely improve the gameplay for me.. thats just how i am, looks + functionality .. instead of only functionality. and i dare someone to tell me the human eye can't see over 30hz! Actually.. you'll find the human eye doesn't refresh in the same way that a computer monitor etc. does. A few examples: A monitor set @ 60Hz will produce a noticeable flicker in your peripheral vision, which updates more often then the center of your field of view. Also, 60Hz will produce a noticeable flicker for some people, and will give most people a headache. A monitor set @ 85Hz upwards will remove all of these problems for most people - indicating the eye 'refreshes' itself somewhere between these two values. Cinema is recorded at 24fps, however, because the refresh is instant and complete (unlike the 'scan' of a computer monitor) and also the image is motion-blurred, the brain compensates for this and so 24fps is acceptable. Computer games however, aren't motion blurred and therefore suffer from problems. Therefore, framerates of 30fps and upwards are required for perfectly smooth motion.
Synex	Posted - 2004.07.06 23:07:00 - [42] Originally by: ErrorS you don't need 40fps, or even 60fps.. but it looks damn nice. 60hz would most definitely improve the gameplay for me.. thats just how i am, looks + functionality .. instead of only functionality. and i dare someone to tell me the human eye can't see over 30hz! Actually.. you'll find the human eye doesn't refresh in the same way that a computer monitor etc. does. A few examples: A monitor set @ 60Hz will produce a noticeable flicker in your peripheral vision, which updates more often then the center of your field of view. Also, 60Hz will produce a noticeable flicker for some people, and will give most people a headache. A monitor set @ 85Hz upwards will remove all of these problems for most people - indicating the eye 'refreshes' itself somewhere between these two values. Cinema is recorded at 24fps, however, because the refresh is instant and complete (unlike the 'scan' of a computer monitor) and also the image is motion-blurred, the brain compensates for this and so 24fps is acceptable. Computer games however, aren't motion blurred and therefore suffer from problems. Therefore, framerates of 30fps and upwards are required for perfectly smooth motion.
Sinist	Posted - 2004.07.06 23:15:00 - [43] Right but I think you pulled that out your you know what. It varies from game to game. I remember playing a game called Ghost Recon (FPS now owned by Ubisoft). back when windows XP first came out refresh rates were locked at 65mhz. I was getting exactly 65 fps and it was unnaceptable. Then a refresh rate unlock was made for Win Xp where I could set my refresh rate to like 80mhz. My fps was 80FPS and it was now acceptable. I think your 24fps number is false and the actual true fps to have without ever noticing any problems would be closer to 100.
Sinist	Posted - 2004.07.06 23:15:00 - [44] Right but I think you pulled that out your you know what. It varies from game to game. I remember playing a game called Ghost Recon (FPS now owned by Ubisoft). back when windows XP first came out refresh rates were locked at 65mhz. I was getting exactly 65 fps and it was unnaceptable. Then a refresh rate unlock was made for Win Xp where I could set my refresh rate to like 80mhz. My fps was 80FPS and it was now acceptable. I think your 24fps number is false and the actual true fps to have without ever noticing any problems would be closer to 100.
Origim	Posted - 2004.07.06 23:31:00 - [45] Originally by: Sinist I think your 24fps number is false and the actual true fps to have without ever noticing any problems would be closer to 100. Did you, uh, read his post? -------------- Posting Efficiency / Rank 1 / SP: 68542 of 256000 \|
Origim	Posted - 2004.07.06 23:31:00 - [46] Originally by: Sinist I think your 24fps number is false and the actual true fps to have without ever noticing any problems would be closer to 100. Did you, uh, read his post? -------------- Posting Efficiency / Rank 1 / SP: 68542 of 256000 \|
Arud	Posted - 2004.07.06 23:35:00 - [47] the 24fps is accurate, film works that it shows 24 actual frames per second but it also shows 24 black frames which fools the eye to think its smooth
Arud	Posted - 2004.07.06 23:35:00 - [48] the 24fps is accurate, film works that it shows 24 actual frames per second but it also shows 24 black frames which fools the eye to think its smooth
Origim	Posted - 2004.07.06 23:40:00 - [49] Well, I heard that the Covert Ops EvE reduces CPU usage by 92%-100%.. no wait.. -------------- Posting Efficiency / Rank 1 / SP: 68542 of 256000 \|
Origim	Posted - 2004.07.06 23:40:00 - [50] Well, I heard that the Covert Ops EvE reduces CPU usage by 92%-100%.. no wait.. -------------- Posting Efficiency / Rank 1 / SP: 68542 of 256000 \|
Xelios	Posted - 2004.07.06 23:40:00 - [51] I think it has a lot to do with the way the light in the system influences the GUI. That and each GUI element has to be alpha blended with what's behind it. I'd say turn off the whole light-reflecting-off-GUI deal, or at least put in an option to do this on the fly. 2 FPS during a fleet battle is no fun, neither is flying without a UI during a fleet battle in an effort to speed up the FPS.
Xelios	Posted - 2004.07.06 23:40:00 - [52] I think it has a lot to do with the way the light in the system influences the GUI. That and each GUI element has to be alpha blended with what's behind it. I'd say turn off the whole light-reflecting-off-GUI deal, or at least put in an option to do this on the fly. 2 FPS during a fleet battle is no fun, neither is flying without a UI during a fleet battle in an effort to speed up the FPS.
Vladimir G'orkin	Posted - 2004.07.07 00:29:00 - [53] I suggest you read this article. I'd like to see improvement in performance, more frames per second can never be a bad thing. Especially if you have outdated hardware.
Vladimir G'orkin	Posted - 2004.07.07 00:29:00 - [54] I suggest you read this article. I'd like to see improvement in performance, more frames per second can never be a bad thing. Especially if you have outdated hardware.
Baleur	Posted - 2004.07.07 00:34:00 - [55] yyeaaaaahh 1152 x 864 is the way to go God i gotta change my sig..
Baleur	Posted - 2004.07.07 00:34:00 - [56] yyeaaaaahh 1152 x 864 is the way to go God i gotta change my sig..
Fillmeup	Posted - 2004.07.07 01:22:00 - [57] Wow, 40-60fps ...... Until very recently, I played Eve for over 12 months on a P3-600 with 512mb and a Nvidia 440MXse. My max frame rate in normal times was sub-15fps, dropping to 1-2fps in fleet battle. Jumping stargates took up to 2mins and docking around 30-45secs. I can tell you right now that, while playable, my experiece with Eve has completely changed since buying a new PC. For this alone i would heartily recommend running reasonably new H/W as it makes the game much more playable / enjoyable. However, to those people that 'need' 40+ FPS, I think you need to realise that a large majority of EVE players and will never see this - you are already in the minority. It is true that I have lost 100's of millions of isk due to CPU lag, and that 1fps in fleet battles is not enuf to do jack (Oh look, I'm in a pod, when did that happen??), but realistically, anyone getting 40-60fps should be damm happy. I optimise my new pc so it sits at around 30fps with fraps and everything else sitting at high detail, and find the game performs without fault. I have also found that Eve servers are no-where near as laggy as I thought - most of my lag was PC based. (at least over the last 2 weeks or so of playing) I generally find that people complaining about how slow Eve is generally have a butt-load of other crap running in the background, have inferior hardware, or are either too inexperienced with PC's to know or are simply asking too much from it. I was surprise how many people run Anti-virus programs while playing eve - this made it impossible to play on my p3. My point: if you are not happy running eve on more or less current hardware, there is a good chance you are doing something wrong. (fleet battles are excepted from this statement :-) If you are unhappy with 40-60fps, then what would make you happy? /end rant
Fillmeup	Posted - 2004.07.07 01:22:00 - [58] Wow, 40-60fps ...... Until very recently, I played Eve for over 12 months on a P3-600 with 512mb and a Nvidia 440MXse. My max frame rate in normal times was sub-15fps, dropping to 1-2fps in fleet battle. Jumping stargates took up to 2mins and docking around 30-45secs. I can tell you right now that, while playable, my experiece with Eve has completely changed since buying a new PC. For this alone i would heartily recommend running reasonably new H/W as it makes the game much more playable / enjoyable. However, to those people that 'need' 40+ FPS, I think you need to realise that a large majority of EVE players and will never see this - you are already in the minority. It is true that I have lost 100's of millions of isk due to CPU lag, and that 1fps in fleet battles is not enuf to do jack (Oh look, I'm in a pod, when did that happen??), but realistically, anyone getting 40-60fps should be damm happy. I optimise my new pc so it sits at around 30fps with fraps and everything else sitting at high detail, and find the game performs without fault. I have also found that Eve servers are no-where near as laggy as I thought - most of my lag was PC based. (at least over the last 2 weeks or so of playing) I generally find that people complaining about how slow Eve is generally have a butt-load of other crap running in the background, have inferior hardware, or are either too inexperienced with PC's to know or are simply asking too much from it. I was surprise how many people run Anti-virus programs while playing eve - this made it impossible to play on my p3. My point: if you are not happy running eve on more or less current hardware, there is a good chance you are doing something wrong. (fleet battles are excepted from this statement :-) If you are unhappy with 40-60fps, then what would make you happy? /end rant
Andrue	Posted - 2004.07.07 12:47:00 - [59] Originally by: Righteous Fury Edited by: Righteous Fury on 06/07/2004 22:55:04 There's also a memory leak that needs to be looked at. Thought I'd post it here because it kind of goes. Atm i'm running one copy of eve with nothing else running: eve.exe - 333,388k mem usage. Thats insane. With 786mb of RAM, I'm down to about 10% left at any given time. When I close eve, that number rockets back up to 70% or 80% Firstly that isn't neccessarily a memory leak. A memory leak is when memory that is no longer actually needed by an application is not handed back to the OS for reuse. The usual sign of a memory leak is memory usage climbing continuously until the application crashes. Secondly 333Mb of memory in use doesn't sound excessive to me for an application like Eve. I write software and although it rarely exceeds 100MB at any one time it has been known to hit 700MB. I know from investigating such cases what can cause that kind of memory usage and it doesn't have to be anything unreasonable. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Andrue	Posted - 2004.07.07 12:47:00 - [60] Originally by: Righteous Fury Edited by: Righteous Fury on 06/07/2004 22:55:04 There's also a memory leak that needs to be looked at. Thought I'd post it here because it kind of goes. Atm i'm running one copy of eve with nothing else running: eve.exe - 333,388k mem usage. Thats insane. With 786mb of RAM, I'm down to about 10% left at any given time. When I close eve, that number rockets back up to 70% or 80% Firstly that isn't neccessarily a memory leak. A memory leak is when memory that is no longer actually needed by an application is not handed back to the OS for reuse. The usual sign of a memory leak is memory usage climbing continuously until the application crashes. Secondly 333Mb of memory in use doesn't sound excessive to me for an application like Eve. I write software and although it rarely exceeds 100MB at any one time it has been known to hit 700MB. I know from investigating such cases what can cause that kind of memory usage and it doesn't have to be anything unreasonable. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.

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