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Johnny Dex
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Posted - 2008.11.16 22:59:00 -
[91]
I'm amazed of the amount of ******ness of some long playing "masters of missile ships". Its kinda obvious that missiles got nerfed allot(in general) this time and just because you still can "own" level 4 missions because of your "awesome" eve skills does not change that. And no, target painters with cruise missiles make no sense, even if some "masters" use them, but hey, lets all scream "can i have your stuff" and things like that, because we are all that cool and wise, we the "masters of eve".
PS: No, i'm not a missile user, still, that does not make me a *****... |
Ranger 1
Amarr
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.11.16 23:06:00 -
[92]
 Quote:
And no, target painters with cruise missiles make no sense, even if some "masters" use them, but hey, lets all scream "can i have your stuff" and things like that, because we are all that cool and wise, we the "masters of eve".
So, let me get this straight. You point is that experienced players are saying that with the new missile balancing a mod that is designed to increase the signature radius of your intended target helps a great deal and is a small adjustment to make... but people are supposed to ignore it because it "makes no sense" to use said module in combat and because it is recommended by the more experienced players?
Your logic escapes me.
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Sensor Ghost
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Posted - 2008.11.16 23:10:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Officer Deteis
the Nerf was total BS to caldari mission runners. heavy missiles and cruise missiles do crap to smaller ships now and when you are in a raven with cruise missiles you now have a short mission take forever.
I agree 100% with you, Trovax :)
Welcome to everyone else world! And drones are that way ->
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Stunna Shade
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Posted - 2008.11.16 23:12:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Stunna Shade on 16/11/2008 23:12:15
Adapt or cancel.
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Johnny Dex
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Posted - 2008.11.16 23:14:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Johnny Dex on 16/11/2008 23:15:33
Edited by: Johnny Dex on 16/11/2008 23:14:45
@Ranger 1:
Which part of my " you didnt get ? By "masters" i wasnt exactly saying "more experienced players", as i said, i'm not a missile user but cmon, TPs just dont have enough range to be useful with cruise missiles, in most situations, i think. Anyway, my point was that people are complaining for a good reason and i hate all the "can I have your stuff" dudes around. Being able to tank missiles with ABs its at least hilarious and this too makes no sense.
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Marconus Orion
Amarr
Astroglide X
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Posted - 2008.11.16 23:20:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Officer Deteis
the Nerf was total BS to caldari mission runners. heavy missiles and cruise missiles do crap to smaller ships now and when you are in a raven with cruise missiles you now have a short mission take forever.
I agree 100% with you, Trovax :)
They removed the Raven drone bay?! |
CRUSH BOSS
Caldari
BigMek Industries
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.11.16 23:39:00 -
[97]
I tryed my Cruise Golem with LVL 4 missions and found no change to the wake of distruction it left.
All relevant skills used for my set up are at LVL 5 including Golem LVL 5.
Train skills and stay out of ships you cant fly properly.
End of
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.11.16 23:45:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Johnny Dex
Edited by: Johnny Dex on 16/11/2008 23:15:33
Edited by: Johnny Dex on 16/11/2008 23:14:45
@Ranger 1:
Which part of my " you didnt get ? By "masters" i wasnt exactly saying "more experienced players", as i said, i'm not a missile user but cmon, TPs just dont have enough range to be useful with cruise missiles, in most situations, i think. Anyway, my point was that people are complaining for a good reason and i hate all the "can I have your stuff" dudes around. Being able to tank missiles with ABs its at least hilarious and this too makes no sense.
This is not meant to pick on you, just a few explanatory points.
I "got" your post, but I think you are reacting more to the people beating the drums on the forums than to the actual change itself. As you say, you are not a missile user.
I realize you believe people are complaining for a good reason, but you also have to realize that on these boards most people complain long before they think. This is a time honored tradition on the EVE-O boards, and sees renewed vigor both before and for a short time after every single patch or expansion that has tweaked how combat works. If I necro'd threads from when explosion velocity and explosion radius were first introduced to missile combat, and copy/pasted them into any one of these threads, you would not be able to tell the difference (including the "EVE will now die" variety.)
I do agree with you on the "can I haz your stuffz" comments, I find them a bit stale.
And lastly, ships using ABs being harder to hit squarely than ships that use MWDs makes perfect sense if you understand the combat system. The mechanic has always been that MWDs throw out enough electronic noise that it makes your sig radius go through the roof, making you easier to lock and easier to hit with missiles. The actual large velocity boost itself (along with all of the other speed enhancing game mechanics) negated this effect completely in many cases as your missiles either couldn't catch the ship or the ship simply outran the explosion. Now MWD's (and other mods) don't give you that escape factor you had before so more damage catches up with you (making that large sig radius actually be a liability again)... AB's on the other hand give you a good speed boost without making it easy for missiles to lock on and accurately track you.
So just relax, experiment, adapt... or in your particular case don't let the people who are temporarily getting themselves worked up affect you as much. They'll figure out what works, tweaks can be made if needed, and as I said before "this too shall pass".
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Chuck Tucker
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Posted - 2008.11.17 00:23:00 -
[99]
Originally by: CRUSH BOSS
Train skills and stay out of ships you cant fly properly.
End of
+1
I do not think its right when until now everybody and his mother knows that CNR=Iwin (mission runnning wise).
STFU u cheaters. Learn to play finally.
For me I think u should be nerfed triply harder.
Hate those semi-afk CNR runners I always stumble upon while probing.
Why da hell one race and one hecking ship should be of ultimate advantage among others ?
Suck it up, braindeads.
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KISOGOKU
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Posted - 2008.11.17 00:41:00 -
[100]
Reasonable post and im agree eve will not die but if a BS class ammo (rage torpedos) need 2 TPs (with maxed skills)to do full damage to tier2 BS there is a problem .
Do i care ?No ,2 months and ill be unnerfable 
Originally by: Ranger 1
If I necro'd threads from when explosion velocity and explosion radius were first introduced to missile combat, and copy/pasted them into any one of these threads, you would not be able to tell the difference (including the "EVE will now die" variety.)
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EnslaverOfMinmatar
Yarsk Hunters
DeaDSpace Coalition
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Posted - 2008.11.17 01:39:00 -
[101]
mah lazorz > ur mishulz
uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ
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Thudin
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Posted - 2008.11.17 11:49:00 -
[102]
Good changes, it was silly that a small ship moving fast would get destroyed by cruise missiles in the first place.
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Mr Bifta
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Posted - 2008.11.17 11:59:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Trovax
Originally by: Furb Killer
Assuming they are mission runners, missions still work fine with missiles. Havent done pvp with missiles so cant comment on that.
However also taking account your post before you editted it, i think you got serious issues and you might need help.
@officer, ever tried hitting an orbitting frig in a turret BS? USE DRONES[/quote
Ever tried a LVL 4 mish (IE World collide) solo where your warp scrmabled in your CNR and cruise missiels aint doing nought to the frigs?? Its a right B***H when it goes pop. Yeah drones, but can you really take out 4 or 5 scrammers before 60 ship pop you? On hell of a tank if you can.
A set of light tech II drones should kill a scrambler frigate in about 20 seconds. Thats even with my mediocre drone skills
Another very good way to kill frigates is to use smart bombs.
You muct be aggroing the mission wrong as i can do worlds collide in a tech II fitted raven with no problems ( well maybe 1-2 warp outs)
Ill agree missions are more difficult with the missile nerf but still doable
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MenanceWhite
Amarr
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.11.17 12:25:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Trovax
WITHOUT SOUNDING LIKE IM WHINING (cos im really honestly not not)
Originally by: Trovax
Ever tried a LVL 4 mish (IE World collide) solo where your warp scrmabled in your CNR and cruise missiels aint doing nought to the frigs?? Its a right B***H when it goes pop. Yeah drones, but can you really take out 4 or 5 scrammers before 60 ship pop you? On hell of a tank if you can.
Originally by: Trovax
Anyways. Nuf said.
Yep. I agree. Nuf said.
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Dantes Revenge
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.17 13:30:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Faife
Edited by: Faife on 13/11/2008 23:11:57
Originally by: Trovax
Ever tried a LVL 4 mish (IE World collide) solo where your warp scrmabled in your CNR and cruise missiels aint doing nought to the frigs?? Its a right B***H when it goes pop. Yeah drones, but can you really take out 4 or 5 scrammers before 60 ship pop you? On hell of a tank if you can.
the second M in MMORPG stands for "multiplayer"
The first one is for "Massively" and that doesn't work either.
Try a battle with as few as 30 players in the same grid sometime. I'm not sure since the patch but I won't be doing that again in a Command ship until I'm completely certain they've fixed it. The lag didn't last long for me though, but only cos I got podded and waking up in my new clone cleared the lag.
Not sure where everyone gets the RP from though, there aren't that many RP players in this game. It's more like MMOG.
--
There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken.
All this has happened before and will happen again |
Rachel Voegel
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Posted - 2008.11.17 13:33:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Harrent
... Cruise missles shoot only larger itemsłas they were intedned to ...
People keep saying this, but CM Expl. Vel. is far lower than BS base speeds. So CMs don't fully hit larger ships.
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Daevonar
Minmatar
Starfish Operating Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.11.17 13:53:00 -
[107]
Quite a lot of people trained for missile skills for the very reason that they were without a shadow of a doubt the best weapon in the game, hell most pilots train missiles whether they are Caldari or not, I bet nearly half the players out there trained missiles as as their primary weapon of chocie.
Now they have been reduced slightly, and they are upset... I use missiles too, but I'm not going to cry about it... I'm glad they have actually given you a reason to think before deciding which weapons to train.
Missiles still, given an equal amount of training to guns, do more damage per shot to their intended size targets, can hit at range and close up with no reduction in damage or change to the chance of hitting, they have the best range of all the weapons, they are still. So it now does f'all damage to small targets now... oh... dear. Seriously try hitting a small target at close range with artillery, or any target at long range with autos then complain that missiles have been nerfed too much.
The range reduction only affects some missile types as well...
Quote:
Light, heavy and cruise precision missiles will now do more damage to smaller targets and will have a penalty of -50% range.
Rocket, assault missile and torpedo javelin missiles will now do -10% less damage but range has been increased by 50%.
Rage rocket, assault missiles and torpedoes and Fury light, heavy and cruise missiles will do less damage to their own ship class but will do more damage to a larger ship class. They will also have a -10% range reduction.
Only precision missiles have been drastically reduced in range.
Did you notice cruis missiles now do more damage to targets above their size group? or the range increase to assault missiles? |
Daevonar
Minmatar
Starfish Operating Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.11.17 14:01:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Daevonar on 17/11/2008 14:01:33
Originally by: Rachel Voegel
Originally by: Harrent
... Cruise missles shoot only larger itemsłas they were intedned to ...
People keep saying this, but CM Expl. Vel. is far lower than BS base speeds. So CMs don't fully hit larger ships.
Cruise missile expl. vel = 500
Average BS speed = 100-150
And yes skills can make speeds faster... but they can also increase expl. vel.
Even with a good AB these ships are slower than the expl. vel. of cruise missiles... |
MenanceWhite
Amarr
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.11.17 14:10:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Rachel Voegel
Originally by: Harrent
... Cruise missles shoot only larger itemsłas they were intedned to ...
People keep saying this, but CM Expl. Vel. is far lower than BS base speeds. So CMs don't fully hit larger ships.
But Wait! That's not all! EVEN THE EXPLO. VEL. FOR LIGHT MISSILES AND ROCKETS ARE SUPER LOW NOW!!! OH NOES!! HOW COULD IT HAPPEN!!! LIGHT MISSILES AND ROCKETS MUST BE DOING 0 DAMAGE TO FRIGS NOW!! PAANICCCCC!!!
Perhaps if you actually read other peoples posts you'd know that the missile damage formula has been changed with more weight on sig radius than on speed. Maybe you would'nt seem as much as an ignorant idiot either. |
HowardStern
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Posted - 2008.11.17 14:23:00 -
[110]
Good, there are too many people playing Eve anyway.
More room for the rest of us. |
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Farmer Kamikaze
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Posted - 2008.11.17 16:16:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Forums
Pages of rage
I really don't understand the rage. I don't even have maxed out missile skills and I haven't changed a single module on my CNR post-patch. Half decent drone skills will not take 2 months to train and the small targets are sorted. The relatively low dps of missiles (and crap raven tank) was negated by the extreme range you got pre-patch (range tank?), but the fact that missiles never miss unless you are going really fast still gives them some compensation.
Oh, and drones kill for free. Cruise cost ISK. Think of it has cost saving. |
Vietone
Gallente
Mercury Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.17 16:36:00 -
[112]
Wow I hate people who dont bother to TEST out the missile changes before they even bother to complain about them.
Yes, I never expected to be able to use a battleship and effectively destroy frigates but I didn't complain and was one of the reasons why I never bothered flying smaller ships because a cruise missile would destroy them easily.
Missiles so far have changed nothing for mission runners. My alt flys a faction fitted CNR and I do missions FASTER, YES FASTER, than before the so called missile nerf. I wanted to see what difference it would make and its made mission running so much easier its not even funny.
If you have any battleship running mission, you should be using drones to fight frigates anyway. The cost of using cruise missiles to destroy some frigates ended up costing you more ISK to destroy a frigate than it was worth. The CNR has a 75m3 drone bay. That's enough for 5 mediums and 5 lights. More than enough to take on any frigate.
So yes, all the people complaining about the rebalance of missiles are whining. If a battleship class turret has a significant reduction in DPS to a frigate, a cruise missile should as well. Even then, if frigates are getting close to you, thats why you need a smartbomb.
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Dhejay Centrix
Caldari
The Wailing Doom
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Posted - 2008.11.17 17:36:00 -
[113]
Don't see the problems to be honest... Admittedly it's a bit harder to use rage torps to kill BS now but seeing as they were intended for shooting at structures that's not that bad. Cruise fitted CNR does missions fine post patch and I haven't really noticed the change in DPS since I know that battleship sized weapons haven't been any good against frigs for a couple of years since they changed missiles the last time, therefore I don't do it. Use DRONES ffs that's what they're for, get decent drone skills and fit tech 2 lights... They're fine for everything cruiser size and lower, everything else is easy to hit with cruise. |
Heroldyn
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Posted - 2008.11.17 17:39:00 -
[114]
missiles are outdated technology. if the caldari want to stay competetive, they should invest into superior weapon systems. like lazoooors.
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Haniblecter Teg
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Posted - 2008.11.17 17:40:00 -
[115]
"Wah, I cant afk mission anymore, Wah" |
wassssabi
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Posted - 2008.11.17 18:01:00 -
[116]
speed nerf sux, i've cancelled my accounts also, 3 days left until eve-vaca begins
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Kaeten
Hybrid Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.11.17 18:04:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Edited by: Furb Killer on 13/11/2008 22:46:05
Originally by: Trovax
Originally by: Furb Killer
Assuming they are mission runners, missions still work fine with missiles. Havent done pvp with missiles so cant comment on that.
However also taking account your post before you editted it, i think you got serious issues and you might need help.
@officer, ever tried hitting an orbitting frig in a turret BS? USE DRONES
Ever tried a LVL 4 mish (IE World collide) solo where your warp scrmabled in your CNR and cruise missiels aint doing nought to the frigs?? Its a right B***H when it goes pop. Yeah drones, but can you really take out 4 or 5 scrammers before 60 ship pop you? On hell of a tank if you can.
*Furb thinks really hard*
Yeah i did worlds collide yesterday in a CNR (serious). There seems to be only a small group of hardcore whiners who insist on shooting frigates with cruise missiles. DONT DO IT. I still can kill destroyers fine with cruise missiles (allthough i prefer medium drones vs them). If you cant kill the scramming frigs before your ship blows up, you are doing it wrong. (When you got 60 ships shooting you including 5 scrammers in worlds collide you are also doing it wrong).
Anyway i even measured time on worlds collide (wanted to go check if CNR or navy mega was faster, cnr with some t2 stuff and much named, mega faction fitted, t2 skills for everything, quite some sp in gunnery, much less in missiles, barely in shield tanking). But i decided it isnt worth it to compare to to navy mega since it is pretty obvious CNR is still faster. Serpentis used to be the rats where navy mega could compete with CNR, but CNR has been boosted against many npcs, especially serpentis in quantum rise. (group your cruise missiles and defenders are neglectable). It took me 40 minutes to complet worlds collide in a CNR.
Edit: Not to mention my CNR has no target painter (seriously doubt it will get one), and got a large shield booster with cap power relay (4 BCS ftw), and a t1 boost amp (t2 one requires me training a skill to lvl 5, way too much work). And still it does fine.
I pvp, and even I know this
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Haraldhardrade
Amarr
Pax Amarr
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Posted - 2008.11.17 18:07:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Everyone Dies
Originally by: Haradgrim
Obama quote to sum up QR:
"You can't use a sledgehammer when you need a scalpel"
obama is going to be the beginning of the end of the us
I think you are too optimistic. George W Bush was the beginning of the end of the US.
A country ruled by a ****** who cant even speak properly is doomed.
Caveo of Minmatar , torva vacuus regimen of deus es plurrimi periculosus of bestia
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Kherie Kali
Amarr
Hello KItty Entrepreneurs
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Posted - 2008.11.17 18:22:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Kherie Kali on 17/11/2008 18:26:13
Originally by: Haraldhardrade
I think you are too optimistic. George W Bush was the beginning of the end of the US. A country ruled by a ****** who cant even speak properly is doomed.
Edit: So, Haraldhardrade, because Stephen Hawking can't speak well he's not fit to do anything because he's incompetent? How are your public speaking skills btw? When was the last time you went to give a teleconference watched by hundreds of millions?
I'm not saying I was for or against Bush, just saying that your assumptions are inherently flawed because you equate apples to oranges.
We were doomed the day we became complacent and let big business run our government (especially when they make considerable donations to certain house and senate members). The president isn't the only one that runs the gov't... checks and balances.
Anyway back on topic... as people here continue to whine and cry about missles, I frapsed a corp mate in a drake 1v1 other bc's that were pvp fitted and he won... so... I guess they aren't as 'dead' as everyone else complains about.
Also, I'd like to point out that when you MISS with a large turret you do 0 damage. When you HIT with a cruise missle it at least does 4 damage. Missing and hitting for low amounts is NOT the same thing. You pay a price for hitting your target 100% of the time (minus very few special cases, i.e. torps after an inty).
tl;dr: Drake killed myrm, cane, brutix 1v1 with pvp fits. When turrets miss it's 0 damage. Missles hit 100% minus a few rare cases which is the players fault to begin with.
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Machanara
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.17 18:33:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Machanara on 17/11/2008 18:35:25
I'm a heavy missle user and I really don't care about mission running.
The hugh problem here is the nerf to cruise and torps!! A BS moving 350m/s can speed-tank a fricking torp? You have GOT to be kidding me!!!
And not to mention that same BS being able to not get FULL damage from a cruise missle?? Being smaller than a torp? What the frack has this game come to. Seriously!
When a TORPEDO cannot do full dmg to the sized ship its supposed to be designed for, you have a fu*king serious flaw in your programming!
And compared to turrets now, its a fricking joke. Large turrets can hit anything at long range, full power. Speed doesn't matter and size has little relevance at those ranges. But yet missles got nerfed SO damn much compared to those turrets, missles will be thrown out the window and turrets will become the norm for just about all ship.
Seriously...why would I use a cruise missle to shoot a BS at say, 80km, where it will do maybe 60% of its dmg when I can use a large turret that won't be affected by its speed and do full dmg and possibl crits? It's really a no brainer.
Missles just got fu*ked, hard-core!
This needs to be re-adjusted very soon CCP.
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