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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.11.18 19:23:00 -
[31]
Ah of course, Acceleration Control... 25% bonus... I thought something sounded wrong, thanks.  |
Chssmius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.18 20:06:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Max Hardcase
MWD will slightly increase your damage reduction with the navigation skills.
Compared with an AB, no. Compared with a ships max unboosted velocity, yes, but only a little.
With good skills and a good AB you will actually be flying at about 2.6(1+~1.6) times you max unboosted velocity, and 0 sig bloom(1+0) means(signature/velocity) (1/2.6)^(0.586(drf) = ~0.562(for regular light missiles, small means less damage). That is the fraction of full damage at max unboosted speed.
With good skills and a good MWD you will actually be flying at about 7(1+6) times your max unboosted velocity, and 6 sig bloom(1+5) means(signature/velocity) (6/7)^(0.586(drf)) = ~0.911(for regular light missiles). That is the fraction of full damage at max unboosted speed.
So with an MWD at full speed you will be taking more damage than with an AB at full speed but only slightly less than at max unboosted speed.
This all assumes no painters, webs, and that the equation that uses velocity is always the minimum of the three possibilities. |
Resamo
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Posted - 2008.11.18 23:48:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Resamo on 18/11/2008 23:57:24
wrong thread!
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Resamo
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Posted - 2008.11.18 23:50:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Resamo on 18/11/2008 23:53:50
Edited by: Resamo on 18/11/2008 23:52:38
another bs sheild hit
23:49:18 Combat Your Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo hits Pith Conquistador, doing 1006.8 damage.
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Lauri Andromedae
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Posted - 2008.11.19 11:33:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Why? Because CCP hates solo PvP. It was not fair that missiles could do effective damage without bringing a blob of painter/web ships to support them, so now they suffer damage reduction against everything but an AFK capital ship.
This is MMORPG. Solo PvP is stupid idea anyway. If you wanna play alone do missions alone. It's great for the game that solowtfpwngankmobiles gets nerfed.
More gangs, less solo bull****.
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Mara Starr
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Posted - 2008.11.20 12:57:00 -
[36]
Lauri your point makes sense if you only look at the words, but my experience has led me to believe otherwise. EVE is great in the sense its one of the MMORPGS that you don't need other people to get things done and you can succeed on your own. Case in point if I want to make a little money on the side I can run missions or do some mining is a relatively safe system. I could even solo PVP because in the world of EVE it totally makes sense to do solo PVP and its one of the more dynamic and engaging elements of the game. If I wanted to have to do everything in a large group than I would have joined goonsquad or better yet become a WOW player, obviously I didn't and a lot of other EVE players feel the same way I'd think.
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sdthujfg
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Posted - 2008.11.20 14:40:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Lauri Andromedae
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Why? Because CCP hates solo PvP. It was not fair that missiles could do effective damage without bringing a blob of painter/web ships to support them, so now they suffer damage reduction against everything but an AFK capital ship.
This is MMORPG. Solo PvP is stupid idea anyway. If you wanna play alone do missions alone. It's great for the game that solowtfpwngankmobiles gets nerfed.
More gangs, less solo bull****.
Just because it is an MMORPG doesn't mean you have go hug a blob to enjoy the game. You're just trolling the thread because you fail at solo and are a bitter noob.
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Shereza
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Posted - 2008.11.20 14:57:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Lauri Andromedae
This is MMORPG. Solo PvP is stupid idea anyway. If you wanna play alone do missions alone. It's great for the game that solowtfpwngankmobiles gets nerfed.
More gangs, less solo bull****.
This is also a "sandbox" game which means it should be what we make of the framework CCP gives us and that framework should not force group activities. If I want to play with myself and not play with others I shouldn't be penalized for that beyond the penalties imparted by other players.
If you want an MMORPG that is also a MMGRORPG (Massively Multiplayer Grouping Required On-line Role Playing Game) go play Final Fantasy XI or Everquest. |
Furb Killer
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.20 14:58:00 -
[39]
In other topics merin is trolling that solo pvp doesnt matter anyway... |
Ni'Kuth
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Posted - 2008.11.20 16:34:00 -
[40]
Quote:
This is MMORPG. Solo PvP is stupid idea anyway. If you wanna play alone do missions alone.
It would be great if CCP made this true for all aspects of Eve. Instead of only PvP.
Back on topic, rockets has always been the black sheep of the missile line. I really haven't a clue why, although it could be because there is no way of making it a solid weapon without making small short ranged turrets worthless. Torps were a great deal better than blasters and ACs prepatch, with the only thing holding them back was the need for TPs, as well as nanos (although Nanos outransversed large turrets, so it was somewhat the same).
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.11.20 16:39:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Ni'Kuth
Torps were a great deal better than blasters and ACs prepatch, with the only thing holding them back was the need for TPs, as well as nanos (although Nanos outransversed large turrets, so it was somewhat the same).
"Were"? Torps are even more powerful than ACs and blasters now.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.11.20 17:52:00 -
[42]
Rockets are the most piece of **** weapon system there is. End of story.
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[Video] The Cruise |
The Vixen
Coalition of Nations
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Posted - 2008.11.20 18:15:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Shereza
Originally by: Lauri Andromedae
This is MMORPG. Solo PvP is stupid idea anyway. If you wanna play alone do missions alone. It's great for the game that solowtfpwngankmobiles gets nerfed.
More gangs, less solo bull****.
This is also a "sandbox" game which means it should be what we make of the framework CCP gives us and that framework should not force group activities. If I want to play with myself and not play with others I shouldn't be penalized for that beyond the penalties imparted by other players.
If you want an MMORPG that is also a MMGRORPG (Massively Multiplayer Grouping Required On-line Role Playing Game) go play Final Fantasy XI or Everquest.
If you want to play by yourself go play Neverwinter Nights, Oblivion or Freelancer.  I never have understood why people would bother playing solo on an MMO... unless they just needed subconscious validation that other people are as reclusive as them... but then again, that would be false validation, because most of those players are playing with each other, thus making it a little social. 
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KhaniKirai
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Posted - 2008.11.20 18:30:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Ni'Kuth
Torps were a great deal better than blasters and ACs prepatch, with the only thing holding them back was the need for TPs, as well as nanos (although Nanos outransversed large turrets, so it was somewhat the same).
"Were"? Torps are even more powerful than ACs and blasters now.
Could you motivate that with some facts?
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.11.20 19:45:00 -
[45]
Originally by: KhaniKirai
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Ni'Kuth
Torps were a great deal better than blasters and ACs prepatch, with the only thing holding them back was the need for TPs, as well as nanos (although Nanos outransversed large turrets, so it was somewhat the same).
"Were"? Torps are even more powerful than ACs and blasters now.
Could you motivate that with some facts?
Easily. It's fairly obvious, though.
Pre-QR: torps needed a painter to deal full damage to all tier 1-2 non-Caldari BS, and a web was needed to keep your target tackled.
Post-QR: torps need a painter and a web to deal full damage to all tier 1-2 non-Caldari BS, and a web is needed to keep your target tackled.
So, no actual change in torps there. The relative boost to torps comes from the greater difficulty experienced by the AC- and blaster-boats in getting to, and staying at, optimal range, making the range advantage of torps more meaningful.
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GateScout
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Posted - 2008.11.20 20:09:00 -
[46]
For those that miss the subtleties of the formula, the highlighted portions are rather important:
Originally by: Marine HK4861
Damage = Base_Damage * MIN(MIN(sig/Er,1) , (Ev/Er * sig/vel)^(0.586 * log(drf)) )
Where
sig = ship's signature
vel = ship's velocity
Er = Explosion Radius of missile
Ev = Explosion Velocity of missile
drf = Damage Reduction Factor of missile
To get the second term lower than the first is trivial. Train up those target painters....
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.11.21 06:36:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 21/11/2008 06:39:01
Originally by: The Vixen
If you want to play by yourself go play Neverwinter Nights, Oblivion or Freelancer. I never have understood why people would bother playing solo on an MMO... unless they just needed subconscious validation that other people are as reclusive as them... but then again, that would be false validation, because most of those players are playing with each other, thus making it a little social.
Hu h?? Because people like playing against other humans and not the static pc AI? It's like saying "I don't get why people play quake ffa, why would you not just play against the pc locally?" Alot of people are online playing because they want to play AGAINST others. Alot of games DO cater this. It is still social even if your human interactions are all enemies instead of friends. It's not like people don't socialize across enemy lines in games.
The whole "It's an MMO = group play" argument is retrded. |
Karl Proseck
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Posted - 2008.11.21 11:10:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: KhaniKirai
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Ni'Kuth
Torps were a great deal better than blasters and ACs prepatch, with the only thing holding them back was the need for TPs, as well as nanos (although Nanos outransversed large turrets, so it was somewhat the same).
"Were"? Torps are even more powerful than ACs and blasters now.
Could you motivate that with some facts?
Easily. It's fairly obvious, though.
Pre-QR: torps needed a painter to deal full damage to all tier 1-2 non-Caldari BS, and a web was needed to keep your target tackled.
Post-QR: torps need a painter and a web to deal full damage to all tier 1-2 non-Caldari BS, and a web is needed to keep your target tackled.
So, no actual change in torps there. The relative boost to torps comes from the greater difficulty experienced by the AC- and blaster-boats in getting to, and staying at, optimal range, making the range advantage of torps more meaningful.
show me a blaster or ac of bs size that has a 10k range w/o lots of skills, no going beyond 10k, no dmg reduction for for passing 10k just 100% miss, take that factor out of missiles and torps and ill agree the nerf was good, until then it was an overdone nerf to satisfy people that didnt want to adapt just cry on the forums so they would not have to think
if you really think missiles are that wicked, find me a similar weapon system of the same size that just ceases to funtion when your max range is reached, and in addition to that show me a missile that can get perfect shots and such in for a damage boost
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Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.21 11:25:00 -
[49]
I actually like the fact that MWD's were partially removed from the speed tank formula. I always thought they should operate more like burst modules, get you in range so you can wreak havoc, but shouldn't be full-time alway's on modules.
POS Personal Storage |
Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum
TRUST Coalition
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Posted - 2008.11.21 12:37:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Karl Proseck
show me a blaster or ac of bs size that has a 10k range w/o lots of skills, no going beyond 10k, no dmg reduction for for passing 10k just 100% miss
OK - all large blasters and turrets have an optimal below 10km without skills. (Blasters also have optimal + falloffs of 8, 10.5 and 13km (for Electron, Ion, Neutron) and the large ACs are all around 18km optimal + falloff). Going beyond 10km with the blasters, you're looking at quite substantial damage reductions, and the ACs, while they lose damage slower, don't have stellar output to begin with.
Besides, it's not appropriate to compare anything without skills. Did you know that without skills, a Falcon has the same range and effectiveness on its ECM as a Bantam?  Skills, and ship bonuses, are what make weapons systems and loadouts what they are. You're overlooking the fact (deliberately or otherwise) that missiles get two skills that both add 10%/level to their range; compared to turrets, which get a 5%/level skill for optimal and a 5%/level skill for falloff.
The fact remains that with just skills alone, you can get torpedoes to a 30km range on a Raven, such that you can hit anything within warp disruptor range. If you feel you need more than that, then you can push that much further with rigs...
Quote:
if you really think missiles are that wicked, find me a similar weapon system of the same size that just ceases to funtion when your max range is reached
This is how missiles work, they're a different system to guns. You can say that guns cease to function when "max range" (about optimal + 2 8 falloff) is reached too. The difference is that guns generally have higher "maximum" ranges, but most of this is falloff, where they do reduced damage. For example, compare the Raven's torpedoes vs. a Mega's Neutron blasters. If the Mega's using Antimatter, then its max range is 30km anyway, except it starts to miss beyond 4.5km whereas the Raven hits solidly right up to 30km. So let's try Null ammo in the Mega for range. Now with a 11km optimal and 16km falloff it can just about reach up to 43km. However, the Raven outdamages it from the get-go now (even in optimal) as the Mega's had to drop to less damaging ammo, and beyond 11km things get even worse for the Mega as it starts to miss due to being in falloff. At 27km the Mega's hitting 50% of the time but the Raven is still going strong with maximum damage. It's only at 30km+ where the Mega suddenly gets the damage advantage (as the Raven's DPS drops to zero), and it's missing over 50% of its shots for a DPS of something like 400 maximum. (And if that's going to be your niche, you'd be better off with real long-range weapons on the Mega).
It's different, but you can't really complain that range on Torps is a problem... |
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Katy Karkinoff
Minmatar
Psycho Chicks
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Posted - 2008.11.21 14:00:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Lauri Andromedae
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Why? Because CCP hates solo PvP. It was not fair that missiles could do effective damage without bringing a blob of painter/web ships to support them, so now they suffer damage reduction against everything but an AFK capital ship.
This is MMORPG. Solo PvP is stupid idea anyway. If you wanna play alone do missions alone. It's great for the game that solowtfpwngankmobiles gets nerfed.
More gangs, less solo bull****.
Don't give me that ****. You know it's bs. Solo pvp is vastly more enjoyable than gang pvp because you can atleast gauge what impact you have on a fight. Fighting in gangs you see very little of your impact on the field. (except if you're a lone falcon so you can see the target jam cycle go up... and god isn't that fun)
Solo/duo is fun. Once you start seeing gang sizes get up (10+) you become a mindless tool of an FC and it becomes disinteresting.
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Mara Starr
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Posted - 2008.11.21 14:05:00 -
[52]
To Vixen
I'm not talking about playing alone, I could do diablo or something silly like that. What I meant by alone is I can play in a gang with a bunch of friends or a corp for pvp or I can actually see if I have the stones to take people on 1 v 1 without any help. Especially since not everyone I play with is always on or on at the same time.
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Meeogi
Amarr
Lone Star Privateers
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Posted - 2008.11.22 12:28:00 -
[53]
I hope CCP gets off their rear and fixes rockets. The difference is huge...Mind you I am talking about "rockets". As of now I can't see any area of pvp where they would ever be preferred.
Wax on Wax off |
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