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Why can't the Stealth bomber use a cov ops cloak?

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Alt MKII Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.28 12:11:00 - [1] The question I should maybe be asking instead, is whether it is a covet ops ship after all? What stops me from just fitting a cloak to a raven and do all the things a SB does, but better? Bombs? Please. An other subject all together. Otherwise pls rethink the requirements/bonuses to fly it. As it stands now, I can fly the Blockade runner with a cov ops cloak now with no skill points into Covert ops Skill. BUT I need Cov Ops skill to fly the SB which can not fit the said cloak. This has been requested numerous times in these forums but I have yet to see a valid argument against it(valid to me), so pls enlighten me.
Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.11.28 12:30:00 - [2] Originally by: Alt MKII What stops me from just fitting a cloak to a raven and do all the things a SB does, but better? Lesseehere… Quote: Covert Ops Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Cruise Missile and bomb [race specific] damage and multiplies the cloaked velocity by 125% per level Role Bonus: -99% reduction in Cruise Launcher powergrid needs, -99% reduction in Bomb Launcher CPU use and -100% targeting delay after decloaking Note: can fit covert cynosural field generators Ok, so bombs can't be used as an argument. That still leaves the following questions: can your Raven fly faster cloaked than uncloaked? Can your Raven fire immediately after uncloaking (ie before the target warps off)? Can your Raven fit covert cynos? No sig for me, thankyouverymuch.
Alt MKII Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.28 12:33:00 - [3] It could even encourage some pacifists to try their hand in PVP, by being under the illusion that they are invincible since they would be invisible.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.11.28 12:35:00 - [4] Originally by: Tippia Ok, so bombs can't be used as an argument. That still leaves the following questions: can your Raven fly faster cloaked than uncloaked? Can your Raven fire immediately after uncloaking (ie before the target warps off)? Can your Raven fit covert cynos? Not to mention, can ones cloaked raven uncloak, shoot a ship down and warp away and re-cloak before the target even has time to say "WT..." My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Alt MKII Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.28 12:42:00 - [5] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Alt MKII What stops me from just fitting a cloak to a raven and do all the things a SB does, but better? Lesseehereà Quote: Covert Ops Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Cruise Missile and bomb [race specific] damage and multiplies the cloaked velocity by 125% per level Role Bonus: -99% reduction in Cruise Launcher powergrid needs, -99% reduction in Bomb Launcher CPU use and -100% targeting delay after decloaking Note: can fit covert cynosural field generators Ok, so bombs can't be used as an argument. That still leaves the following questions: can your Raven fly faster cloaked than uncloaked? Can your Raven fire immediately after uncloaking (ie before the target warps off)? Can your Raven fit covert cynos? The raven has all the time it needs to lock after uncloaking in PVP since the othe person is having a rofl fit. Especially post QR. I have never really had to go fast anywhere while cloaked except few cases of escaping heavy camps. Could have done without it IMHO. I use the proper cov ops frig for cynos.
Alt MKII Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.28 12:46:00 - [6] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: Tippia Ok, so bombs can't be used as an argument. That still leaves the following questions: can your Raven fly faster cloaked than uncloaked? Can your Raven fire immediately after uncloaking (ie before the target warps off)? Can your Raven fit covert cynos? Not to mention, can ones cloaked raven uncloak, shoot a ship down and warp away and re-cloak before the target even has time to say "WT..." Not really but doing that with a SB, you would have accomplished little unless your target was a stationary frigate or DD. For 5+ sb pack this is indeed a very valid strategy.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.11.28 12:50:00 - [7] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 28/11/2008 12:50:23 Originally by: Alt MKII Not really but doing that with a SB, you would have accomplished little unless your target was a stationary frigate or DD. For 5+ sb pack this is indeed a very valid strategy. It's suprising how many of those are though; miners, haulers, campers. Ofcourse one should always be aware of his surroundings in 0.0, but, people never learn Also i consider giving someone brown pants as a latenight present as "accomplishment" My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Alt MKII Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.28 12:50:00 - [8] Originally by: Alt MKII Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: Tippia Ok, so bombs can't be used as an argument. That still leaves the following questions: can your Raven fly faster cloaked than uncloaked? Can your Raven fire immediately after uncloaking (ie before the target warps off)? Can your Raven fit covert cynos? Not to mention, can ones cloaked raven uncloak, shoot a ship down and warp away and re-cloak before the target even has time to say "WT..." Not really but doing that with a SB, you would have accomplished little unless your target was a stationary frigate or DD. For 5+ sb pack this is indeed a very valid strategy. I forgot to mention that you have to be laying ambush somewhere in the first place for this to work. With the cov ops cloak it can be used to great effect by hunting while cloaked.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.11.28 12:51:00 - [9] Originally by: Alt MKII I forgot to mention that you have to be laying ambush somewhere in the first place for this to work. With the cov ops cloak it can be used to great effect by hunting while cloaked. There's your answer really. Imagine a free-roaming bomber that can stay cloaked without a pause until it finds a target? My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.11.28 12:51:00 - [10] Let's see - SB does half the damage of a Raven for a fraction of the price. When you shoot at smaller targets you're way better off with an SB than a Raven. Plus the stuff mentioned above already. Major drawback of the SB - paper defense. Most important difference: Raven - boring, Manticore - fun. :-) Not that I wouldn't put in a CovOps if I could. ;-) --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
Karille Gallente Lordless	Posted - 2008.11.28 12:55:00 - [11] The stealth bomber has enough DPS to lay waste to a mining op. Ships with the covert ops cloak have always been balanced by weak dps.
Alt MKII Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.28 12:55:00 - [12] There's your answer really. Imagine a free-roaming bomber that can stay cloaked without a pause until it finds a target? But isn't this supposed to be the role of a stealth bomber? A submarine type of spaceship?
Alt MKII Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.28 13:00:00 - [13] Edited by: Alt MKII on 28/11/2008 12:59:50 Originally by: Karille The stealth bomber has enough DPS to lay waste to a mining op. Ships with the covert ops cloak have always been balanced by weak dps. You show up in a belt with your sb and every one packs up and leaves. Or you try to guess which belt they are going to hit next and wait there. With the current state of local, limited chance of success either way.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.11.28 13:04:00 - [14] Originally by: Alt MKII But isn't this supposed to be the role of a stealth bomber? A submarine type of spaceship? Aye, and i wouldn't mind it, but it would be too powerful. Originally by: Alt MKII You show up in a belt with your sb and every one packs up and leaves. Or you try to guess which belt they are going to hit next and wait there. With the current state of local, limited chance of success either way. Wait at gate, take out miners(locktime is ridicilously small), can manage maybe two salvos before a bigger ship hits warp etc. It's a frig speed half-raven really, in the right hands, devastating. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Alt MKII Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.28 13:13:00 - [15] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: Alt MKII But isn't this supposed to be the role of a stealth bomber? A submarine type of spaceship? Aye, and i wouldn't mind it, but it would be too powerful. Originally by: Alt MKII You show up in a belt with your sb and every one packs up and leaves. Or you try to guess which belt they are going to hit next and wait there. With the current state of local, limited chance of success either way. Wait at gate, take out miners(locktime is ridicilously small), can manage maybe two salvos before a bigger ship hits warp etc. It's a frig speed half-raven really, in the right hands, devastating. Frig fragile as well.... It would indeed become more powerful with the cov ops cloak, but TOO powerfull? I do not know about that and hence this thread.
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.28 13:13:00 - [16] Edited by: Murina on 28/11/2008 13:15:03 Originally by: Alt MKII The question I should maybe be asking instead, is whether it is a covet ops ship after all? What stops me from just fitting a cloak to a raven and do all the things a SB does, but better? Massive initial locking delay, and a even larger lock time penalty for using a cloak on a BS for starters. Try fitting a cloak to a raven then uncloak and see how long it takes you to lock a frig or even a cruiser you will soon see why. POST NERF PVP SKILLS: "shall we engage?" "hmmm how many ships do they have?" "more than us" "lets not bother then" "WOW great job FC!!!!" ".................
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.11.28 13:24:00 - [17] Originally by: Alt MKII Frig fragile as well.... It would indeed become more powerful with the cov ops cloak, but TOO powerfull? I do not know about that and hence this thread. Oh i know, just saying my opinion. As it is, the bomber is lacking something, but not more covert/damage My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.11.28 13:32:00 - [18] Edited by: Tippia on 28/11/2008 13:32:53 Originally by: Alt MKII It would indeed become more powerful with the cov ops cloak, but TOO powerfull? I do not know about that and hence this thread. Enter system. Cloak. Warp to belt (or whatever). Fly to within 2.5k of ship. Uncloaklockfirecloak (at roughly that speed). Fly off while they panic. Repeat as needed. The only way to see you coming is that suddenly, there are big holes in the hull. No sig for me, thankyouverymuch.
Verone Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.11.28 13:33:00 - [19] Quote: stealth (stělth) Pronunciation Key n. 1. The act of moving, proceeding, or acting in a covert way. 1. The quality or characteristic of being furtive or covert. 1. Archaic The act of stealing. I've always wondered myself why they don't use covert ops cloaks, given their intended role. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Alt MKII Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.28 13:42:00 - [20] Edited by: Alt MKII on 28/11/2008 13:43:59 Originally by: Murina Edited by: Murina on 28/11/2008 13:15:03 Originally by: Alt MKII The question I should maybe be asking instead, is whether it is a covet ops ship after all? What stops me from just fitting a cloak to a raven and do all the things a SB does, but better? Massive initial locking delay, and a even larger lock time penalty for using a cloak on a BS for starters. Try fitting a cloak to a raven then uncloak and see how long it takes you to lock a frig or even a cruiser you will soon see why. Okay lets take two combat scenarios: 1.SB Vs (whatever really) cruiser SB uncloaks SB Targets SB fires salvo CR is in armor - WTF CR Warps away AKA the mosquito effect. 2. Raven vs same cruiser Raven uncloaks Raven targets CR - WTF? You must be joking Raven still targets CR Cruiser pilot ponders whether to cry or laugh at you Raven still targets CR - Should you be misioning or ratting somewhere? Raven still targets CR - You are quite mad aren't you? Raven finally locks CR - hm a raven kill, cool. Hits AF Raven fires - your cruises/torpedoes hit for 50 damage - THIS IS MADNESS!!! CR - THIS IS QR! Raven scarmbles/webs/nos etc CR and deploys 5 tech II light drones CR - ehh... Profit. I think the raven is more effective and comedy material at the same time.
baltec1 R.U.S.T. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.28 13:47:00 - [21] Bombers dont need a cov ops. I already find plenty of things to shoot at and fleet fights are a load of fun. I have even put a warp disruptor on one of my bombers for the luls and walked away with a falcon kill and an intact bomber. Bombers realy arnt as useless as people try to make them out to be.
Alt MKII Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.28 14:00:00 - [22] The difference as I see it is that with the cov ops cloak you arrive at the scene cloaked and decide your actions, without it you arrive then cloak and cross your fingers. It is like comparing using a silenced gun to a booby trap/mine. Both covert actions, but totally different. The end result in both scenarios for a stealth bomber and a potential victim is the same though so I do not see how the sb would become overpowered.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2008.11.28 14:29:00 - [23] Originally by: Alt MKII Originally by: Murina Try fitting a cloak to a raven then uncloak and see how long it takes you to lock a frig or even a cruiser you will soon see why. Okay lets take two combat scenarios: ... 2. Raven vs same cruiser Raven decloaks. Cruiser pilot is AFK getting a glass of water. Raven Ctrl-clicks cruiser, and finds out his sensors are still recalibrating. (10 seconds pass)... Raven Ctrl-clicks cruiser, and finds out his sensors are still recalibrating. (another 10 seconds pass...) Raven starts hammering the lock button at this point... (yet another 10 seconds pass...) Raven can finally start locking the cruiser - thanks to the cloak, this will take 11 seconds to complete. Cruiser pilot comes back and goes "argh, a Raven". Cruiser pilot warps out in 3-5 seconds, depending on how heavily plated he is. Raven pilot is sad. Seriously, how is a ~40-second locking time a good idea if you're trying to be stealthy? You could just warp in/undock and lock them in less time...
Rachel Voegel	Posted - 2008.11.28 14:32:00 - [24] Originally by: Alt MKII You show up in a belt with your sb and every one packs up and leaves. Or you try to guess which belt they are going to hit next and wait there. With the current state of local, limited chance of success either way. Make a bookmark off grid and use the SB speed bonus to approach the belt unseen.
RedSplat Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.11.28 14:39:00 - [25] Brace for Merin I don't want to set the world on fire
Sigras	Posted - 2008.11.28 15:12:00 - [26] Scenario 1 (after stealth bombers get a cov-ops cloak) SB warps to the gate cloaked at 50K and sees 5 cruisers camping the gate SB calls to his 6 other SB buddies who all warp in cloaked SB fleet motors in to within 3K of the cruiser undetected. SB fleet all decloaks hits everyone with sensor damps and alpha strikes one cruiser with no warning or counter. Scenario 2 (after stealth bombers get a cov-ops cloak) SB warps to the gate cloaked at 50K and sees 5 BC's camping the gate . . . Scenario 3 (after stealth bombers get a cov-ops cloak) SB warps to the gate cloaked at 50K and sees 5 HAC's camping the gate . . . and, as sonny and cher sang "the beat goes on"
Alt MKII Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.28 15:26:00 - [27] Originally by: Sigras Scenario 1 (after stealth bombers get a cov-ops cloak) SB warps to the gate cloaked at 50K and sees 5 cruisers camping the gate SB calls to his 6 other SB buddies who all warp in cloaked SB fleet motors in to within 3K of the cruiser undetected. SB fleet all decloaks hits everyone with sensor damps and alpha strikes one cruiser with no warning or counter. Scenario 2 (after stealth bombers get a cov-ops cloak) SB warps to the gate cloaked at 50K and sees 5 BC's camping the gate . . . Scenario 3 (after stealth bombers get a cov-ops cloak) SB warps to the gate cloaked at 50K and sees 5 HAC's camping the gate . . . and, as sonny and cher sang "the beat goes on" This is already doable now in a slightly diffent way: Covert OPS Frigate warps to the gate cloaked at 50K and sees 5 cruisers camping the gate Covert OPS Frigate calls to his 6 other SB buddies who warp in uncloaked at 120k SB fleet hits everyone with sensor damps and alpha strikes one cruiser with no warning or counter. etc etc
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.11.28 15:34:00 - [28] Would make sense. Warping cloaked is essential to sneaking up on anything without spending half a day doing it. I do not see giving SB's that ability overpowered at all. If you want a tradeoff however, give them bigger sig (means they can be locked faster which makes recloaking more difficult aswell as taking more damage from missiles + easier to track). But yeah imo stealth bombers are pretty much useless without the covert cloak. ----------------------
Crellion Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2008.11.28 15:45:00 - [29] Originally by: Alt MKII Originally by: Sigras Scenario 1 (after stealth bombers get a cov-ops cloak) SB warps to the gate cloaked at 50K and sees 5 cruisers camping the gate SB calls to his 6 other SB buddies who all warp in cloaked SB fleet motors in to within 3K of the cruiser undetected. SB fleet all decloaks hits everyone with sensor damps and alpha strikes one cruiser with no warning or counter. Scenario 2 (after stealth bombers get a cov-ops cloak) SB warps to the gate cloaked at 50K and sees 5 BC's camping the gate . . . Scenario 3 (after stealth bombers get a cov-ops cloak) SB warps to the gate cloaked at 50K and sees 5 HAC's camping the gate . . . and, as sonny and cher sang "the beat goes on" This is already doable now in a slightly diffent way: Covert OPS Frigate warps to the gate cloaked at 50K and sees 5 cruisers camping the gate Covert OPS Frigate calls to his 6 other SB buddies who warp in uncloaked at 120k SB fleet hits everyone with sensor damps and alpha strikes one cruiser with no warning or counter. etc etc Not to take places here but in the first example the cruiser insta dies while in the second it watched the missles come and warps out... Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Srioghal moDhream	Posted - 2008.11.28 16:09:00 - [30] I think the real reason why the sb cannot fit a cov ops cloak is cpu. It clearly does not have enough cpu to fit one.

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