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Aoife Baelish Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.02 20:30:00 - [1] ... there's not a single ship that, even being specifically bonused for the use of rockets, uses them. There are good weapons and bad weapons. That's fair. But still, every single underused offensive module can be fit in at least one ship and be effective to a certain degree. But with rockets, there is no single scenario in which a rocket ship would benefit from fitting said weapons instead of missiles, or directly turrets. This is seriously wrong and, in my humble opinion, one of the highest priorities (and easiest to fix) while regarding game balance right now. You might think it's not important, but as a khanid roleplayer in one of my main characters, and a small ship lover, I find it painful to be forced to ignore the rocket bonuses in both the Malediction and Vengeance, which are probably two of my favourite ships. You might claim there are other issues to resolve first. Like missiles, for example. Okay, missiles might be nerfed, but you don't fit railguns to your caracal. Missiles might be worse than before, but they're still used. The fitting tendencies show that rockets are dead, and definitly need some love. Who's with me? ---<---@
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.12.02 20:33:00 - [2] Ships don't "use rockets", people use rockets. And there's plenty of people who fit and use rockets. And yes there is a purpose for them, regardless of your limited view of their use.
Gnomes Rock	Posted - 2008.12.02 20:37:00 - [3] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Ships don't "use rockets", people use rockets. And there's plenty of people who fit and use rockets. And yes there is a purpose for them, regardless of your limited view of their use. The only valid reason to use rockets is to take out drones in a dedicated tackle interceptor. Unbonused autocannons > bonused rockets in dps.
Galen Naranek Royal Navy Industries CryoGenesis Mining Syndicate	Posted - 2008.12.02 20:46:00 - [4] Why, just the other day I tried to kill a Falcon using rockets on my Crow. Between me and the gate guns that he was tanking we got him down to 66% of his shield. Rockets Rule! ___________________________________ That which kills me makes me deader
Aoife Baelish Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.02 20:47:00 - [5] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Ships don't "use rockets", people use rockets. And there's plenty of people who fit and use rockets. And yes there is a purpose for them, regardless of your limited view of their use. Why don't you elaborate and show examples instead of just flaming? I dare you to post a single fitting with rockets that wouldn't be outperformed by fitting an adequate alternative weapon system. ---<---@
5pinDizzy Amarr Umpteenth Podding	Posted - 2008.12.02 20:51:00 - [6] Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 02/12/2008 20:52:15 Yeah, tested all the missiles post patch, and the rockets really could have done without the 10% damage reduction and just kept the range bonus. I was managing to get in range with them before, so now with the nerf aswell as the missile balance they suck more now then ever. I'm liking heavy and cruise missiles post patch though. I was moaning about this last night after easily noticing the drop in ability of my malediction.
Gnomes Rock	Posted - 2008.12.02 20:51:00 - [7] Originally by: 5pinDizzy Yeah, tested all the missiles post patch, and the rockets really could have done without the 10% damage reduction and just kept the range bonus. I was managing to get in range with them before, so now with the nerf aswell as the missile balance they suck more now then ever. I'm liking heavy and cruise missiles post patch though. They had a damage reduction? .. why?
5pinDizzy Amarr Umpteenth Podding	Posted - 2008.12.02 20:58:00 - [8] Originally by: Gnomes Rock Originally by: 5pinDizzy Yeah, tested all the missiles post patch, and the rockets really could have done without the 10% damage reduction and just kept the range bonus. I was managing to get in range with them before, so now with the nerf aswell as the missile balance they suck more now then ever. I'm liking heavy and cruise missiles post patch though. They had a damage reduction? .. why? Originally by: patch notes Rocket, assault missile and torpedo javelin missiles will now do -10% less damage but range has been increased by 50%. They were sorta see-sawing it for the range, as the range of rage rockets in particular was so bad it was still something like 5km with top skills. However with the quantum rise changed and that 3 nanofibers work better in lows then adding overdrives, their terrible range wasn't nearly as much as a problem as it was, so I was a little miffed, yeah.
Hyveres Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.02 20:58:00 - [9] Originally by: Gnomes Rock Originally by: 5pinDizzy Yeah, tested all the missiles post patch, and the rockets really could have done without the 10% damage reduction and just kept the range bonus. I was managing to get in range with them before, so now with the nerf aswell as the missile balance they suck more now then ever. I'm liking heavy and cruise missiles post patch though. They had a damage reduction? .. why? Probably beacuse they were overpowered prepatch and everyone was using them even on ships that didnt have rocket bonuses? :sarcasm: "Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot." - Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound
Terraform Gallente Recreation Of The World	Posted - 2008.12.02 20:59:00 - [10] I don't get why CCP thought rockets even needed to be included in the missile-speed "fix". Not like they were overpowered to begin with and the ships who actually had bonuses to rockets had a fairly crappy dps even then. CCP made a mistake there i think.

Nicholas Barker Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.12.02 21:02:00 - [11] the rocket/plate crow not only **es on your camp fire, but also **s in your tent. ------
Hyveres Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.02 21:03:00 - [12] Edited by: Hyveres on 02/12/2008 21:03:30 Originally by: Terraform I don't get why CCP thought rockets even needed to be included in the missile-speed "fix". Not like they were overpowered to begin with and the ships who actually had bonuses to rockets had a fairly crappy dps even then. CCP made a mistake there i think. Well they did nerf the bonuses on some of the ship with rockets as their bonused weaponsystem to balance it out. I am certain the flycatcher got nerfed and there was a few others as well "Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot." - Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound
5pinDizzy Amarr Umpteenth Podding	Posted - 2008.12.02 21:05:00 - [13] Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 02/12/2008 21:06:51 I don't want much to be honest, I did get swept up in the missile nerf hysteria and did partake in uneducated rants at times but I know better now and most of it is fine really. All I'd ask is do something like double the range of target painters and take back the 10% damage reduction on rockets and I think I'd be happy at that for missiles. Can still get around 2x the dps fitting small turrets, ship bonus or not, ok tighter fitting, but if you can do it you can do it.
Sky Marshal IMpAct Corp Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.12.02 21:06:00 - [14] No, Rockets are fine, they are fine, F I N E, understood ? If you maintain this, CCP will not have more choice than nerf all others missiles to balance. We already suffered enough.
Aoife Baelish Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.02 21:11:00 - [15] Originally by: Sky Marshal No, Rockets are fine, they are fine, F I N E, understood ? If you maintain this, CCP will not have more choice than nerf all others missiles to balance. We already suffered enough. That doesn't make sense. CCP might commit mistakes, but their dev team is not stupid (otherwise they wouldn't have designed the game you like so much). We're talking about putting rockets in line with other weapons, nerfing missiles more would not help with that at all. ---<---@
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.02 21:21:00 - [16] Originally by: 5pinDizzy Originally by: patch notes Rocket, assault missile and torpedo javelin missiles will now do -10% less damage but range has been increased by 50%. They were sorta see-sawing it for the range, as the range of rage rockets in particular was so bad it was still something like 5km with top skills. However with the quantum rise changed and that 3 nanofibers work better in lows then adding overdrives, their terrible range wasn't nearly as much as a problem as it was, so I was a little miffed, yeah. That is CCP way to say that all Javelin (T2 variants) of the rockets/assault missiles and Torpedoes have 10% less damage and 50% more range than the standard version. From what I recall that has changed nothing for rockets.
5pinDizzy Amarr Umpteenth Podding	Posted - 2008.12.02 21:26:00 - [17] Originally by: Aoife Baelish Originally by: Sky Marshal No, Rockets are fine, they are fine, F I N E, understood ? If you maintain this, CCP will not have more choice than nerf all others missiles to balance. We already suffered enough. That doesn't make sense. I'm pretty sure he's saying CCP hate Caldari so much that if you ask them to make rockets better they'll just nerf every single other missile weapon, and say, here ya are, fixed. Rockets look great now!
Astro Glyde	Posted - 2008.12.02 21:29:00 - [18] Hmmm, you don't look Caldari...
Joe Sasaki	Posted - 2008.12.02 21:31:00 - [19] Last time I checked rockets worked well enough vs frigates
Aoife Baelish Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.02 21:37:00 - [20] Edited by: Aoife Baelish on 02/12/2008 21:37:35 Originally by: Joe Sasaki Last time I checked rockets worked well enough vs frigates No, they don't. Try a rocket setup, dock, refit guns, try again and then come back. Being able to win a fight doesn't mean your weapons are okay. If my opponent is stupid enough or my tank good enough, I can win with civilians. The point is, rockets aren't the best choice, never ever. Fighting against frigates is no exception. ---<---@

5pinDizzy Amarr Umpteenth Podding	Posted - 2008.12.02 22:21:00 - [21] Originally by: Joe Sasaki Last time I checked rockets worked well enough vs frigates I'm finding it very hard to get hold of any decent information, but from what I've read, that's the one thing they don't do, and I found the same thing. Basicly saying rockets are now supposed to do more damage against larger targets, but less damage against other frigates. As said, I think they had such ships like the flycatcher in mind, as it doesn't do ships like the malediction any favours.
Xiaodown coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.12.02 22:21:00 - [22] Originally by: Nicholas Barker the rocket/plate crow not only **es on your camp fire, but also **s in your tent. wat -- Sig under construction.
Hyveres Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.02 22:22:00 - [23] Maybe you should test it on doublewebbed & painted targets that are not using AB. "Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot." - Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Trinity Council.	Posted - 2008.12.02 22:24:00 - [24] i use rocket launchers on my rifter all the time, and my kestrels Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 "*Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer*"
Mika Meroko Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc	Posted - 2008.12.02 22:53:00 - [25] I some time fit rockets on my drake to scare the ** out of inty pilots... Originally by:** CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
EnslaverOfMinmatar Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition	Posted - 2008.12.02 23:02:00 - [26] u noob i killed 10 cruisers with rockets uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ
Stunna Shade	Posted - 2008.12.02 23:02:00 - [27] Originally by: Gnomes Rock The only valid reason to use rockets is to take out drones in a dedicated tackle interceptor. THIS!
EnslaverOfMinmatar Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition	Posted - 2008.12.02 23:07:00 - [28] also LOL @ the op's ZERO kills on any kb uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ
Aoife Baelish Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.02 23:11:00 - [29] Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar also LOL @ the op's ZERO kills on any kb I am an alt. So what? What matters is that I make a valid point. Believe me, I have plenty of kills in more than one killboard, and I know to what degree rockets suck. ---<---@
Lord Evangelian Gallente The White Mantle	Posted - 2008.12.02 23:25:00 - [30] I use rocket launchers to spam defender missiles.... Can be very effective at drawing fire in a mission like moredues head hunter, wasting the ammo of a tackled ship while support arrives... The White Mantle \| Ships to sell!



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