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Aoife Baelish
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.02 20:30:00 -
[1]
... there's not a single ship that, even being specifically bonused for the use of rockets, uses them.
There are good weapons and bad weapons. That's fair. But still, every single underused offensive module can be fit in at least one ship and be effective to a certain degree.
But with rockets, there is no single scenario in which a rocket ship would benefit from fitting said weapons instead of missiles, or directly turrets.
This is seriously wrong and, in my humble opinion, one of the highest priorities (and easiest to fix) while regarding game balance right now. You might think it's not important, but as a khanid roleplayer in one of my main characters, and a small ship lover, I find it painful to be forced to ignore the rocket bonuses in both the Malediction and Vengeance, which are probably two of my favourite ships.
You might claim there are other issues to resolve first. Like missiles, for example. Okay, missiles might be nerfed, but you don't fit railguns to your caracal. Missiles might be worse than before, but they're still used. The fitting tendencies show that rockets are dead, and definitly need some love.
Who's with me? ---<---@ |
Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.12.02 20:33:00 -
[2]
Ships don't "use rockets", people use rockets. And there's plenty of people who fit and use rockets. And yes there is a purpose for them, regardless of your limited view of their use.
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Gnomes Rock
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Posted - 2008.12.02 20:37:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Ships don't "use rockets", people use rockets. And there's plenty of people who fit and use rockets. And yes there is a purpose for them, regardless of your limited view of their use.
The only valid reason to use rockets is to take out drones in a dedicated tackle interceptor.
Unbonused autocannons > bonused rockets in dps. |
Galen Naranek
Royal Navy Industries CryoGenesis Mining Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.12.02 20:46:00 -
[4]
Why, just the other day I tried to kill a Falcon using rockets on my Crow. Between me and the gate guns that he was tanking we got him down to 66% of his shield. Rockets Rule! ___________________________________ That which kills me makes me deader |
Aoife Baelish
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.02 20:47:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Ships don't "use rockets", people use rockets. And there's plenty of people who fit and use rockets. And yes there is a purpose for them, regardless of your limited view of their use.
Why don't you elaborate and show examples instead of just flaming?
I dare you to post a single fitting with rockets that wouldn't be outperformed by fitting an adequate alternative weapon system. ---<---@ |
5pinDizzy
Amarr Umpteenth Podding
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Posted - 2008.12.02 20:51:00 -
[6]
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 02/12/2008 20:52:15
Yeah, tested all the missiles post patch, and the rockets really could have done without the 10% damage reduction and just kept the range bonus. I was managing to get in range with them before, so now with the nerf aswell as the missile balance they suck more now then ever.
I'm liking heavy and cruise missiles post patch though.
I was moaning about this last night after easily noticing the drop in ability of my malediction.
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Gnomes Rock
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Posted - 2008.12.02 20:51:00 -
[7]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy Yeah, tested all the missiles post patch, and the rockets really could have done without the 10% damage reduction and just kept the range bonus. I was managing to get in range with them before, so now with the nerf aswell as the missile balance they suck more now then ever.
I'm liking heavy and cruise missiles post patch though.
They had a damage reduction?
.. why? |
5pinDizzy
Amarr Umpteenth Podding
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Posted - 2008.12.02 20:58:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Gnomes Rock
Originally by: 5pinDizzy Yeah, tested all the missiles post patch, and the rockets really could have done without the 10% damage reduction and just kept the range bonus. I was managing to get in range with them before, so now with the nerf aswell as the missile balance they suck more now then ever.
I'm liking heavy and cruise missiles post patch though.
They had a damage reduction?
.. why?
Originally by: patch notes Rocket, assault missile and torpedo javelin missiles will now do -10% less damage but range has been increased by 50%.
They were sorta see-sawing it for the range, as the range of rage rockets in particular was so bad it was still something like 5km with top skills. However with the quantum rise changed and that 3 nanofibers work better in lows then adding overdrives, their terrible range wasn't nearly as much as a problem as it was, so I was a little miffed, yeah.
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Hyveres
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.02 20:58:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Gnomes Rock
Originally by: 5pinDizzy Yeah, tested all the missiles post patch, and the rockets really could have done without the 10% damage reduction and just kept the range bonus. I was managing to get in range with them before, so now with the nerf aswell as the missile balance they suck more now then ever.
I'm liking heavy and cruise missiles post patch though.
They had a damage reduction?
.. why?
Probably beacuse they were overpowered prepatch and everyone was using them even on ships that didnt have rocket bonuses?
:sarcasm:
"Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot." - Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound |
Terraform
Gallente Recreation Of The World
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Posted - 2008.12.02 20:59:00 -
[10]
I don't get why CCP thought rockets even needed to be included in the missile-speed "fix".
Not like they were overpowered to begin with and the ships who actually had bonuses to rockets had a fairly crappy dps even then.
CCP made a mistake there i think.
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Nicholas Barker
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.12.02 21:02:00 -
[11]
the rocket/plate crow not only ****es on your camp fire, but also ****s in your tent. ------
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Hyveres
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.02 21:03:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Hyveres on 02/12/2008 21:03:30
Originally by: Terraform I don't get why CCP thought rockets even needed to be included in the missile-speed "fix".
Not like they were overpowered to begin with and the ships who actually had bonuses to rockets had a fairly crappy dps even then.
CCP made a mistake there i think.
Well they did nerf the bonuses on some of the ship with rockets as their bonused weaponsystem to balance it out.
I am certain the flycatcher got nerfed and there was a few others as well
"Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot." - Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound |
5pinDizzy
Amarr Umpteenth Podding
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Posted - 2008.12.02 21:05:00 -
[13]
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 02/12/2008 21:06:51 I don't want much to be honest, I did get swept up in the missile nerf hysteria and did partake in uneducated rants at times but I know better now and most of it is fine really.
All I'd ask is do something like double the range of target painters and take back the 10% damage reduction on rockets and I think I'd be happy at that for missiles.
Can still get around 2x the dps fitting small turrets, ship bonus or not, ok tighter fitting, but if you can do it you can do it.
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Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.12.02 21:06:00 -
[14]
No, Rockets are fine, they are fine, F I N E, understood ?
If you maintain this, CCP will not have more choice than nerf all others missiles to balance.
We already suffered enough.
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Aoife Baelish
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.02 21:11:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Sky Marshal No, Rockets are fine, they are fine, F I N E, understood ?
If you maintain this, CCP will not have more choice than nerf all others missiles to balance.
We already suffered enough.
That doesn't make sense.
CCP might commit mistakes, but their dev team is not stupid (otherwise they wouldn't have designed the game you like so much).
We're talking about putting rockets in line with other weapons, nerfing missiles more would not help with that at all. ---<---@ |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.02 21:21:00 -
[16]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
Originally by: patch notes Rocket, assault missile and torpedo javelin missiles will now do -10% less damage but range has been increased by 50%.
They were sorta see-sawing it for the range, as the range of rage rockets in particular was so bad it was still something like 5km with top skills. However with the quantum rise changed and that 3 nanofibers work better in lows then adding overdrives, their terrible range wasn't nearly as much as a problem as it was, so I was a little miffed, yeah.
That is CCP way to say that all Javelin (T2 variants) of the rockets/assault missiles and Torpedoes have 10% less damage and 50% more range than the standard version. From what I recall that has changed nothing for rockets.
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5pinDizzy
Amarr Umpteenth Podding
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Posted - 2008.12.02 21:26:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Aoife Baelish
Originally by: Sky Marshal No, Rockets are fine, they are fine, F I N E, understood ?
If you maintain this, CCP will not have more choice than nerf all others missiles to balance.
We already suffered enough.
That doesn't make sense.
I'm pretty sure he's saying CCP hate Caldari so much that if you ask them to make rockets better they'll just nerf every single other missile weapon, and say, here ya are, fixed. Rockets look great now!
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Astro Glyde
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Posted - 2008.12.02 21:29:00 -
[18]
Hmmm, you don't look Caldari... |
Joe Sasaki
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Posted - 2008.12.02 21:31:00 -
[19]
Last time I checked rockets worked well enough vs frigates
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Aoife Baelish
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.02 21:37:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Aoife Baelish on 02/12/2008 21:37:35
Originally by: Joe Sasaki Last time I checked rockets worked well enough vs frigates
No, they don't.
Try a rocket setup, dock, refit guns, try again and then come back.
Being able to win a fight doesn't mean your weapons are okay. If my opponent is stupid enough or my tank good enough, I can win with civilians.
The point is, rockets aren't the best choice, never ever. Fighting against frigates is no exception. ---<---@ |
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5pinDizzy
Amarr Umpteenth Podding
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Posted - 2008.12.02 22:21:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Joe Sasaki Last time I checked rockets worked well enough vs frigates
I'm finding it very hard to get hold of any decent information, but from what I've read, that's the one thing they don't do, and I found the same thing.
Basicly saying rockets are now supposed to do more damage against larger targets, but less damage against other frigates.
As said, I think they had such ships like the flycatcher in mind, as it doesn't do ships like the malediction any favours.
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Xiaodown
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.02 22:21:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Nicholas Barker the rocket/plate crow not only ****es on your camp fire, but also ****s in your tent.
wat --
Sig under construction.
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Hyveres
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.02 22:22:00 -
[23]
Maybe you should test it on doublewebbed & painted targets that are not using AB. "Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot." - Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound |
soldieroffortune 258
Gallente Trinity Council.
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Posted - 2008.12.02 22:24:00 -
[24]
i use rocket launchers on my rifter all the time, and my kestrels
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
"Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer"
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Mika Meroko
Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc
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Posted - 2008.12.02 22:53:00 -
[25]
I some time fit rockets on my drake to scare the **** out of inty pilots...
Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
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EnslaverOfMinmatar
Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition
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Posted - 2008.12.02 23:02:00 -
[26]
u noob i killed 10 cruisers with rockets uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ
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Stunna Shade
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Posted - 2008.12.02 23:02:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Gnomes Rock
The only valid reason to use rockets is to take out drones in a dedicated tackle interceptor.
THIS!
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EnslaverOfMinmatar
Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition
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Posted - 2008.12.02 23:07:00 -
[28]
also LOL @ the op's ZERO kills on any kb uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ
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Aoife Baelish
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.02 23:11:00 -
[29]
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar also LOL @ the op's ZERO kills on any kb
I am an alt. So what? What matters is that I make a valid point.
Believe me, I have plenty of kills in more than one killboard, and I know to what degree rockets suck. ---<---@ |
Lord Evangelian
Gallente The White Mantle
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Posted - 2008.12.02 23:25:00 -
[30]
I use rocket launchers to spam defender missiles....
Can be very effective at drawing fire in a mission like moredues head hunter, wasting the ammo of a tackled ship while support arrives...
The White Mantle | Ships to sell! |
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Oftherocks
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.12.02 23:28:00 -
[31]
Malediction, pretty decent rocket ship, even gets a rocket bonus.
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
No, i play hello kitty online and just paid for 5 years to come here and make comments about stuff i know nothing about and Wranglers pants.
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Aoife Baelish
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.02 23:33:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Oftherocks Malediction, pretty decent rocket ship, even gets a rocket bonus.
No no.
Malediction, pretty decent SHIP. Could even use rockets, doesn't because they suck. ---<---@ |
Verx Interis
Amarr Modicus Dementis
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Posted - 2008.12.02 23:38:00 -
[33]
Vengeance gets better?
Me like. -- Your bad loan management perfectly strikes the stock market, wrecking for -777.68 points. |
5pinDizzy
Amarr Umpteenth Podding
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Posted - 2008.12.03 00:35:00 -
[34]
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 03/12/2008 00:47:23
It's true, you can build a better malediction with lasers. Well within cap stability limits, just as fast and with around 20 extra dps then rockets even with level 5 in interceptor bonus and a little bit more range.
Fitting one medium laser and still keeping a nos to bleed bigger targets to death in a similar tactic to the punisher but a lot zippier.
The only advantage of the rocket version is still having the ability of firing back if you get neuted in which situation you're usually running for dear life anyway to warp before your mwd cycle ends.
Rockets aren't worth fitting on a malediction at least, it's an inferior setup.
The laser setup malediction I use would flatten any equally expensive setup with rockets as you'd never get me neut range and be using javelin rockets to be able to hit me, while I'm well within your range doing twice the damage.
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ShardowRhino
Caldari Legion 0f The Damned
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Posted - 2008.12.03 01:22:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Aoife Baelish
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar also LOL @ the op's ZERO kills on any kb
I am an alt. So what? What matters is that I make a valid point.
Believe me, I have plenty of kills in more than one killboard, and I know to what degree rockets suck.
post with your main so they can verify.
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insidion
Caldari Last of the Technocracy Atrocitas
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Posted - 2008.12.03 03:23:00 -
[36]
It's too bad because really rockets should be a fearsome weapon, but they sucked before patch and they're even more useless now. They either need a ginormous boost in range or a ginormous boost in damage imo. The penalties on t2 rockets need to be rethought as well.
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Bohoba
Caldari HolyKnights
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Posted - 2008.12.03 04:16:00 -
[37]
there is nothing wrong with rocket or missles ccp has made them act just like guns :)
1 gun, 1 race, 1 ship, game now and all them wasted skill points :) we all got taken for a ride :)
A once majestic ship feared by many, now they all laugh at the site of it.
oh well don't mind me back to mining lol and it is buggy as it has alwasy been.
fix the bugs
....................... 10.5 hours a day do you have what it takes ?
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.12.03 07:18:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Aoife Baelish ... there's not a single ship that, even being specifically bonused for the use of rockets, uses them as a main weaponry system
Heretic is one
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Eran Laude
Gallente The Aduro Protocol Doctrine.
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Posted - 2008.12.03 07:47:00 -
[39]
Actually, the Anathema has a rockets bonus.
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Karille
Gallente Cold Templars Templar Initiative
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Posted - 2008.12.03 08:16:00 -
[40]
My Tristan has rockets, should i be worried that it's ineffective?
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Tippia
Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.12.03 09:09:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Karille My Tristan has rockets, should i be worried that it's ineffective?
No, you should be worried that it's a Tristan…
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Karille
Gallente Cold Templars Templar Initiative
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Posted - 2008.12.03 09:12:00 -
[42]
There is nothing wrong with my anthropomorphic 4 limbed space vessel!
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Tippia
Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.12.03 09:16:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Karille Tristan
Originally by: Karille anthropomorphic
I think you should go see a doctor…
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
arbiter reformed
Minmatar Systematic Chaos.
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Posted - 2008.12.03 09:47:00 -
[44]
its javs that `are broken now that or the maladiction needs a missilse speed bonus
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Aoife Baelish
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.03 10:33:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Aoife Baelish on 03/12/2008 10:33:53
Originally by: Karille My Tristan has rockets, should i be worried that it's ineffective?
Filling launcher slots in short range doesn't count, because there's nothing else to go there anyway.
Even if CCP wanted rockets to stay only as a secondary weapon system to "fill holes", then fine, but then also give the so-called rocket ships an useful bonus, not the ability to be good at firing weapons that SUCK.
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 03/12/2008 07:27:44
Originally by: Aoife Baelish ... there's not a single ship that, even being specifically bonused for the use of rockets, uses them as a main weaponry system
Heretic is one
Also malediction...and vengeance
They're supposed to use rockets, true.
However, they don't, or if they do, they shouldn't, because they are bad, and that's what we're discussing. ---<---@ |
inarta
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Posted - 2008.12.03 10:37:00 -
[46]
Edited by: inarta on 03/12/2008 10:37:30 I have been using rockets on my kestrel and the kinetic dam bonus works pretty well for them. Also...Have you heard of the term "Bad rower blames the row" ?
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Karille
Gallente Cold Templars Templar Initiative
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Posted - 2008.12.03 10:49:00 -
[47]
Originally by: inarta Edited by: inarta on 03/12/2008 10:37:30 I have been using rockets on my kestrel and the kinetic dam bonus works pretty well for them. Also...Have you heard of the term "Bad rower blames the row" ?
Buff rows, nerf propellers and sails
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Oriodus
Scorched Sun
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Posted - 2008.12.03 13:29:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Karille Buff rows, nerf propellers and sails
...and nerf columns?
Or did you mean "Buff oars, nerf propellers and sails"?
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kessah
The Accursed
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Posted - 2008.12.03 13:51:00 -
[49]
rocket do lack alot of dps to be fair. With the advent of warp scramblers, it seems rockets orientated ships seem sub-par when it comes to fighting turret based frigates.
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Samuca
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Posted - 2008.12.03 13:59:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Samuca on 03/12/2008 13:59:20 been utilizing this as a close range tackler to great effect. Rockets arent a bastion of dps, but they do tear through drones like no other.
its ..uh...usable
[Vengeance, New Setup 1] Small Armor Repairer II Small Armor Repairer II Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler II Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 200
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket
Bay Loading Accelerator I [empty rig slot]
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Sir Substance
Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc. MagiTech Corp
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Posted - 2008.12.03 14:01:00 -
[51]
Originally by: arbiter reformed its javs that `are broken now that or the maladiction needs a missilse speed bonus
ya, i just looked at that. pre-patch javs were going 20km. according to EFT, now they go 12.
is that correct? - PvPers always say "GB2WoW". the message is that EVE is hard, and people just need to deal with it. wasn't it funny how when nano's started making it hard for *them*, that all went out the window? |
kor anon
Amarr The Tuskers
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Posted - 2008.12.03 16:43:00 -
[52]
Edited by: kor anon on 03/12/2008 16:43:57
Originally by: Xiaodown
Originally by: Nicholas Barker the rocket/plate crow not only ****es on your camp fire, but also ****s in your tent.
wat
I agree that is quite possibly the least understandable and most idiotic suggestion in this thread
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.12.03 17:55:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 03/12/2008 17:56:26 Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 03/12/2008 17:55:31
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
I'm pretty sure he's saying CCP hate Caldari so much that if you ask them to make rockets better they'll just nerf every single other missile weapon, and say, here ya are, fixed. Rockets look great now!
edit : That's pretty bad patch note wording Venkul Mul if it's true what you're saying, I'll see if I can double check.
This isn't a nerf for caldari because they were fitting std launcher before the patch anyway, mostly because rockets sucked even back then. The ones that really got nuked by the nerf bat are the forced rocket users like malediction and vengeance. Malediction can't kill drones and can't hit fast frigs with rockets. What the hell did they think? AC malediction is alot better now but is still outclassed at tackling by the crusader. Why? Because my crusader can basically instapop warrior IIs. Vengeance sucked ass before patch. It sucks now, blaster or AC vengeance is ALOT better then rocket vengeance.
----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.12.03 17:59:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Oftherocks Malediction, pretty decent rocket ship, even gets a rocket bonus.
How exactly are you going to tackle a ship (and most ships have room for warrior IIs) when you can't shoot drones while flying with your intended weapon system? Does this not show how much game design failed on this one after patch? You just have absolutely no clue wtf you're talking about. Until you do, keep your comments out of threads like this. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise |
Aleus Stygian
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Posted - 2008.12.03 18:14:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Oftherocks Malediction, pretty decent rocket ship, even gets a rocket bonus.
How exactly are you going to tackle a ship (and most ships have room for warrior IIs) when you can't shoot drones while flying with your intended weapon system? Does this not show how much game design failed on this one after patch? You just have absolutely no clue wtf you're talking about. Until you do, keep your comments out of threads like this.
You know, as has been mentioned before, the Malediction still has a role beyond rockets. That doesn't mean it's not broken though.
The Malediction, while definitely in need of more ability to engage drones and other frigate-class vessels doesn't suffer the same level of uselessness as the Heretic, which now cannot contribute any decent sort of damage to anything below battlecruiser level even if it does catch something in a bubble. It would have compared favorably to the Malediction even, at least in slightly larger gangs, if it were not for the fact that I could personally easily bring a Sabre instead and gain a whole new level of usefulness against all the pesky small targets that my friends in bigger ships have trouble with.
And then we have the Vengeance. A ship with a simple tanking role, that is set in a class meant to represent the firepower of frigate gangs. And it can't knock out other frigates. Or cruisers. It doesn't have a tackle bonus. It has a tank, but it is far from invulnerable and since it's a frigate it goes under to focused fire from other frigates and the right medium weapons rather easily. It's so shamefully useless against pretty much any class of target that it makes its sibling, the one-mid Retribution, look like a good idea.
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Adaera
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Posted - 2008.12.03 18:31:00 -
[56]
The explosion velocity on rockets is an utter joke now. WTF were CCP thinking there?
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Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.12.03 18:36:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Aleus Stygian It has a tank, but it is far from invulnerable and since it's a frigate it goes under to focused fire from other frigates and the right medium weapons rather easily. It's so shamefully useless against pretty much any class of target that it makes its sibling, the one-mid Retribution, look like a good idea.
Every AF is vulnerable to frig focus fire just like every BS is vulnerable to BS focus fire. That doesn't mean the venge's tank isn't amazing for a frigate or that you can write it off so easily. And just because it doesn't have bonuses to tackling doesn't mean it isn't a good heavy tackler. Yesterday, for example, I chased down and tackled a WT cruise raven in my ishkur and tanked his drones and cruise until the cavalry could get there.
That being said, rockets suck hairy goat balls and need a boost. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Joe Sasaki
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Posted - 2008.12.03 18:49:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Joe Sasaki on 03/12/2008 18:49:14
Originally by: Letifer Deus That being said, rockets suck hairy goat balls and need a boost.
Why? They outrange blasters and will always hit their target as long as it is in range. Missiles are fine and that includes light missiles and rockets.
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Lili Lu
Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.12.03 18:55:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
That being said, rockets suck hairy goat balls and need a boost.
thread (for the content and the visual )
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Umar Khattab
Amarr NME1
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Posted - 2008.12.03 19:05:00 -
[60]
As a Vengeance pilote i must agree with Aoife. Before QR rockets with the bonus would make basically the same dps than ACs without bonus, it was ****ty but at least it wasn't inferior. But now! Now it's insanely unbalanced. Who the **** got that idea of nerfing rockets at CCP? I mean come on, we're talking about common sense here! The solution is either a 20% boost in damage, or changing the weapon/weapon bonus of vengeance and malediction for lasers (adding more cap). _______________________________ "Nothing succeeds like excess" -Oscar Wilde |
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Mya ElleTerego
The Hull Miners Union
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Posted - 2008.12.03 19:17:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Nicholas Barker the rocket/plate crow not only ****es on your camp fire, but also ****s in your tent.
This, our corp has a guy that flys only this and stilletos, and hes wicked in a inty dog fight. CEO For the Hull Miners Union [ONION]
The Hull Miners Union [ONION] |
Aleus Stygian
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Posted - 2008.12.03 19:24:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Umar Khattab As a Vengeance pilote i must agree with Aoife. Before QR rockets with the bonus would make basically the same dps than ACs without bonus, it was ****ty but at least it wasn't inferior. But now! Now it's insanely unbalanced. Who the **** got that idea of nerfing rockets at CCP? I mean come on, we're talking about common sense here! The solution is either a 20% boost in damage, or changing the weapon/weapon bonus of vengeance and malediction for lasers (adding more cap).
I fly the Vengeance, Mal and Heretic too, and I have T2 rockets and high base missile skills. And I'll say that this is rather insufficient.
Not on the damage point, mind. If anything I think that rockets should have slightly lower DPS than ACs because of the ranges on the things. However, because of their orientation and role, rockets need to be able to hit targets in the upper ranges of the scales of small and fast, such as Interceptors, EAFs and light drones. Since they are the only type of missile even slightly capable of doing so to any effect. And not much of an effect, that is. I've tried shooting Warriors and Hammerheads, T2 or not, a good bit lately, all with the same bloody result every time.
As far as I am concerned, before the damage figures are balanced out, rockets must be given back their ability to effectively hit targets in their own 'size category' for something around 55-75% damage against a speed tank when you have full relevant missile skills. Just like all missiles need to. And for this, the signature and speed factors must be tweaked.
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Aoife Baelish
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.03 20:37:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Aleus Stygian
Originally by: Umar Khattab As a Vengeance pilote i must agree with Aoife. Before QR rockets with the bonus would make basically the same dps than ACs without bonus, it was ****ty but at least it wasn't inferior. But now! Now it's insanely unbalanced. Who the **** got that idea of nerfing rockets at CCP? I mean come on, we're talking about common sense here! The solution is either a 20% boost in damage, or changing the weapon/weapon bonus of vengeance and malediction for lasers (adding more cap).
I fly the Vengeance, Mal and Heretic too, and I have T2 rockets and high base missile skills. And I'll say that this is rather insufficient.
Not on the damage point, mind. If anything I think that rockets should have slightly lower DPS than ACs because of the ranges on the things. However, because of their orientation and role, rockets need to be able to hit targets in the upper ranges of the scales of small and fast, such as Interceptors, EAFs and light drones. Since they are the only type of missile even slightly capable of doing so to any effect. And not much of an effect, that is. I've tried shooting Warriors and Hammerheads, T2 or not, a good bit lately, all with the same bloody result every time.
As far as I am concerned, before the damage figures are balanced out, rockets must be given back their ability to effectively hit targets in their own 'size category' for something around 55-75% damage against a speed tank when you have full relevant missile skills. Just like all missiles need to. And for this, the signature and speed factors must be tweaked.
This. And still, a flat increase in DPS is also needed: The numbers are low, even with those benefits applied.
Rockets are far, far worse than what they should be. However, funnily enough the ships that are designed for rocket usage are good ships themselves (talking about the male here specifically) so people tend to think rockets are fine because rocket-ships are fine.
But hell, they're BETTER when they fit something different, and this is wrong, wrong wrong. I don't care if my malediction is good or bad, heck, nerf it to hell and back if you want, but give it rockets, because it's a rocket ship. ---<---@ |
Umar Khattab
Amarr NME1
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Posted - 2008.12.03 21:11:00 -
[64]
Also, the other problem, at least in my case with the Vengeance, is that the ship's agility is the lowest of the AFs. Which means that the only way to do full damage while orbiting at full speed is with rockets. I can't orbit fast enough in close range, which makes the other weapon, ACs, blasters, not very useful. So I'll get back to my rockets, at least I make full damage at 9km. What about Arties though? Anybody flying an Arties' Vengeance? _______________________________ "Nothing succeeds like excess" -Oscar Wilde |
Thercon Jair
Minmatar InQuest Ascension Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.12.03 22:30:00 -
[65]
It seems that the unguided missiles are now honouring their name by not really hitting fast targets for any meaningful amount of damage.
Aside from that, rockets are quite fine. Yes, they should have a lower DPS than an AC boat with the same amount of dmg bonuses. Why? Because the rocket boats get a damage bonus to all damage types, and, you can chose the damage type better than an AC ship, which always has to deal with some secondary or even tertiary damage types that are most likely unsuited for the target you are shooting. Real men do it the hard way: fly Minmatar! |
Vanthropy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.03 23:31:00 -
[66]
Vengeance puts out an incredible tank while dealing fair dps (120+)
[Vengeance, New Setup 1] Damage Control II 200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Small Armor Repairer II Small Armor Repairer II
Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200 Warp Scrambler II
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Phalanx Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Bay Loading Accelerator I Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
the unpopular hawk, when fit with rockets, gets quite a formidible tank while dealing fair (120+) dps. Of course it's going to have tackle problems, its a shield tanker.
[Hawk, New Setup 1] Ballistic Control System II Mark I Generator Refitting: Diagnostic System
Medium C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I V-M15 Braced Multispectral Shield Matrix Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200 1MN Afterburner II
Rocket Launcher II, Thorn Rage Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Thorn Rage Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Thorn Rage Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Thorn Rage Rocket Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Inty that tanks a lot of the dps of light drones long enough to kill em with 100+ dps, and remains faster than anything but another ceptor.
[Malediction, New Setup 1] Small Armor Repairer II Damage Control II Adaptive Nano Plating II
1MN MicroWarpdrive II Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200 Warp Disruptor II
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket [empty high slot] Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Bay Loading Accelerator I Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
Don't know how the hell to fit an Interdictor, but here goes my take
[Heretic, New Setup 1] Pseudoelectron Containment Field I Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer 400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters 'Langour' Drive Disruptor I J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Phalanx Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket [empty high slot] Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Phalanx Rocket Interdiction Sphere Launcher I, Warp Disrupt Probe
Bay Loading Accelerator I Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
fairly certain that if you don't use rockets on these ships you fail. Too many rTards putting standard missiles on there Maledictions. "SPEED + GANK = SPANK... Spank that ***** up" |
Aoife Baelish
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.03 23:36:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Vanthropy Vengeance puts out an incredible tank while dealing fair dps (120+)
[Vengeance, New Setup 1] Damage Control II 200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Small Armor Repairer II Small Armor Repairer II
Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200 Warp Scrambler II
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Phalanx Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Bay Loading Accelerator I Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
the unpopular hawk, when fit with rockets, gets quite a formidible tank while dealing fair (120+) dps. Of course it's going to have tackle problems, its a shield tanker.
[Hawk, New Setup 1] Ballistic Control System II Mark I Generator Refitting: Diagnostic System
Medium C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I V-M15 Braced Multispectral Shield Matrix Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200 1MN Afterburner II
Rocket Launcher II, Thorn Rage Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Thorn Rage Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Thorn Rage Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Thorn Rage Rocket Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Inty that tanks a lot of the dps of light drones long enough to kill em with 100+ dps, and remains faster than anything but another ceptor.
[Malediction, New Setup 1] Small Armor Repairer II Damage Control II Adaptive Nano Plating II
1MN MicroWarpdrive II Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200 Warp Disruptor II
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket [empty high slot] Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Bay Loading Accelerator I Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
Don't know how the hell to fit an Interdictor, but here goes my take
[Heretic, New Setup 1] Pseudoelectron Containment Field I Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer 400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters 'Langour' Drive Disruptor I J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Phalanx Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket [empty high slot] Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Phalanx Rocket Interdiction Sphere Launcher I, Warp Disrupt Probe
Bay Loading Accelerator I Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
fairly certain that if you don't use rockets on these ships you fail. Too many rTards putting standard missiles on there Maledictions.
So much fail in this post.
You want to prove rockets are good but keep mentioning ship aspects that have nothing to do with them. Like tank, speed, whatever.
Listen up, there's none of those fittings that wouldn't benefit from dropping the rockets for other weapons: Deal with it. Proving the Vengeance and the Malediction are good ships doesn't add to your point. They're better without rockets, just imagine if they had bonuses for something else. ---<---@ |
Aleus Stygian
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Posted - 2008.12.03 23:55:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Thercon Jair It seems that the unguided missiles are now honouring their name by not really hitting fast targets for any meaningful amount of damage.
Aside from that, rockets are quite fine. Yes, they should have a lower DPS than an AC boat with the same amount of dmg bonuses. Why? Because the rocket boats get a damage bonus to all damage types, and, you can chose the damage type better than an AC ship, which always has to deal with some secondary or even tertiary damage types that are most likely unsuited for the target you are shooting.
Fail.
I'd have hoped that a Minmatar would understand, since we know split weapon-layouts. But it seems that I was wrong.
All missiles need a fix. And specific ships do as well.
Get this: Minmatar is the easy road right now. I fly Jaguar and Huginn, and I know.
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Vanthropy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.04 00:16:00 -
[69]
missiles.. just .. got fixed. I don't understand this whine. CCP just accomplished awesomeness, this patch has made eve like.. 15x more fun even!! Seriously, there was no fail in my post, none of those ships would benifit from a diferent weapon system, the only thing that would do more natural dps is blasters, and their range sucks monkey balls compared to rockets.
Tank does have everything to do with fitting rockets, they use low fittings and no cap. And I'm sorry but did i say something wrong by mentioning that SML males are fail?
what the heck are you fitting on your failvengeance? plz enlighten me, I wanna know a fit better than the one i posted "SPEED + GANK = SPANK... Spank that ***** up" |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.12.04 00:41:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Vanthropy missiles.. just .. got fixed. I don't understand this whine. CCP just accomplished awesomeness, this patch has made eve like.. 15x more fun even!! Seriously, there was no fail in my post, none of those ships would benifit from a diferent weapon system, the only thing that would do more natural dps is blasters, and their range sucks monkey balls compared to rockets.
Tank does have everything to do with fitting rockets, they use low fittings and no cap. And I'm sorry but did i say something wrong by mentioning that SML males are fail?
what the heck are you fitting on your failvengeance? plz enlighten me, I wanna know a fit better than the one i posted
You cannot have used rockets ever post patch or you would not write such non-sense. Rockets are utter crap now. Really. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise |
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Joe Sasaki
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Posted - 2008.12.04 00:50:00 -
[71]
Well all weaponsystems cannot be on top of the foodchain at the same time.
One has to be slightly worse than the rest and at the moment rockets happen to have landed in that niche.. they will be better eventually either by getting improved or by other weaponsystems being nerfed to their level or worse :)
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.12.04 00:53:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Joe Sasaki Well all weaponsystems cannot be on top of the foodchain at the same time.
One has to be slightly worse than the rest and at the moment rockets happen to have landed in that niche.. they will be better eventually either by getting improved or by other weaponsystems being nerfed to their level or worse :)
Yeah but we recently started fitting lasers again on our normally-ac-fitted amarr ships, do we really need to go back to that so soon again? Vengeance with blasters and maledictions with ACs? Give us a break. Rockets sucked before the patch, now they are in the gutter. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise |
Hyveres
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.04 01:16:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Joe Sasaki Well all weaponsystems cannot be on top of the foodchain at the same time.
One has to be slightly worse than the rest and at the moment rockets happen to have landed in that niche.. they will be better eventually either by getting improved or by other weaponsystems being nerfed to their level or worse :)
Yeah but we recently started fitting lasers again on our normally-ac-fitted amarr ships, do we really need to go back to that so soon again? Vengeance with blasters and maledictions with ACs? Give us a break. Rockets sucked before the patch, now they are in the gutter.
There are other options , adapt as I can read from your reply you obviously did before so why not simply do it now?
This only affects 2-3 ships in eve if you discount the caldari ones so for the majority its simply a nonissue. "Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot." - Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.12.04 01:53:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 04/12/2008 01:52:53
Originally by: Hyveres
There are other options , adapt as I can read from your reply you obviously did before so why not simply do it now?
I'm training ACs for malediction and already trained blasters for vengeance. Sure no prob. But my crusader is still better then my malediction at everything now. It's just a shame that a whole weaponsystem is thrown down the p00per for no reason. A weapon system that was balancing on the edge of the p00per anyway I might add. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise |
Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.12.04 05:16:00 -
[75]
I think rockets should be high slot target painters. There IS a SCI-FI precident for this in the Battletech series (the NARC if I'm not mistaken). Sure, they wouldn't do damage but it's not exactly like people bring them when they like to make a show of firepower or anything. Plus, that makes ships like the rifter even more useful, whereas most caldari ships would still be forced to use a mid slot painter since their ships benefit more from shooting actual missiles out of their missile slots.
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Aleus Stygian
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Posted - 2008.12.04 08:19:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Joe Sasaki Well all weaponsystems cannot be on top of the foodchain at the same time.
One has to be slightly worse than the rest and at the moment rockets happen to have landed in that niche.. they will be better eventually either by getting improved or by other weaponsystems being nerfed to their level or worse :)
This doesn't have a thing to do with being 'on top of the food chain'. It's about filling a role. Your own ship is tanky, not fast enough to line up a transversal, and even ACs don't have enough tracking to work for hitting small, orbiting targets? Or, you need to orbit while you give point, so you won't get hit, but you also need to take out drones or hit the bastard for an extra 70-90 dps, since your gang is all frigs and quite small? Why, use rockets then! With factions or javelins you should get enough speed to hit that Ranis or Raptor or Warrior for at least a deterring amount!
...except you don't, because even undersized missiles don't have enough explosion velocity or signature factor to do anything but dent their shields. If they are even able to reach them. Rockets sucked too much *******s as far as range and explosion velocity were considered even before the patch. Now, it's even worse. So they are even worse off than the rest of the missile classes, who only have their sig mechanic nerfed.
I've flown only turreted or drone-dependent ships up until quite recently, and I still fly mainly those. I used to suffer at the manhandling of Drakes and Cerberi. Now, I'm having a ball, as I am sure you are too when at last your autocannons compare favorably. But you know what? That doesn't make things so much as an inch more right.
The AF 'fix' was bull****; slightly more cap, changed stats and changed bonuses would have been right. Just more speed and agility was going in the wrong direction entirely.
The missile 'fix' was bull****; the one ship that employs missiles that still performs adequately against targets its own size/sig class and lower - a role where missiles used to rock, since they didn't have to deal with tracking problems and were therefore a favorable choice - is the Huginn, which in any sane setup features dual webs and a painter and autocannons to fall back on. The fix has also rendered all Stealth Bombers deathtraps and destroyed many Caldari and Amarr ships - often ones that were already underdogs to begin with.
The whole missile thing was a case of serious pre-nerfing of all the ships that would be able to hit the speed tanks of yesterday that went overboard, and has now effectively tilted the odds right back in favor of the speed tanks. My question is; why doesn't CCP add a bit of speed/signature factor to all missiles again, fix rockets and add bonuses to SBs that let them be effective against frigs and such even when Battleships mounting cruises won't be? Why not throw up a slight tweak of weapon stats overall and do some playtesting? Why not just say 'Hey, sorry guys, we thought this was going to become overpowered and we made a mistake; clearly we don't need it to be this polarized and extreme. Here you go; this should work instead'? I don't give a **** if Zulupark doesn't want to admit fault; the other people on the dev team should realize and do a vote or something. Because at this point all they can garner from such an action is more respect.
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Ralarina
Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.04 08:33:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Hyveres Maybe you should test it on doublewebbed & painted targets that are not using AB.
You shouldn't have to double web and double paint a frigate just for rockets to have an effect; you don't have to double web and double paint for light blasters, autocannons or lasers to take effect; why rockets (rockets being the missile equivalent of "high damage, short range" guns.
I can do more damage with torpedoes against a double webbed double painted frigate than I can with rockets. -- Ralara's Alt (due to Forum ban) |
McEivalley
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Posted - 2008.12.04 09:19:00 -
[78]
Rockets are rubbish - granted. But what if they were never intended to be a main weapon? What if rockets, even on rocket-usage-boosted ships, is only there to supplement something else?
OP here says rockets suck - I want to kill with rockets but I'm killing with other stuff better - let me kill with rockets on rocket-boosted-ships!
I say: "come on, this is just one example out of many examples, in which someone goes bananas because he reads too much". I'm not saying here "adapt again". This whole game is built around purposes.
Look at a completely different ship - The Rokh. Tier 3 BS with shield resists bonuses and a bonus to L hybrid optimal range. Most people I know use it as either a blaster/neut or Torps/neut boat (the later much more popular) with active tanks. The only time a rokh shines, is in very large fleet engagements, when its resists bonus is negligble and has to use extremely expensive ammunition to top a Mega's dps when in a slightly closer range(!)... I'm talking about 150kms when using DG/Cal lead. And it needs one more gun - compared to a mega - to prove that. I'm not even going to mention drone bays because 50m3 in a BS is not something worth mentioning.
And we're talking here about a ship that's worth between 230-280 mil, rigs included. Not an inty... Still, it has its uses. I think.
WTF - boost rockets back and fix some other ships while you're at it.
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Mankirks Wife
Caldari Space Furry Association
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Posted - 2008.12.04 09:39:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Karille Tristan
Originally by: Karille anthropomorphic
I think you should go see a doctorą
Nah, he just needs to face reality and join the SFA! =^.^= ---
Originally by: tarin adur Also, cuz Sporks are like minmatar,do lots of things ok...but nothing spectacularly.
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Vanthropy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.04 09:54:00 -
[80]
[Vengeance, New Setup 4] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Damage Control II Small Armor Repairer II Small Armor Repairer II
1MN Afterburner II Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200 Warp Scrambler II
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
i take it all back. "SPEED + GANK = SPANK... Spank that ***** up" |
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Vanthropy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.04 09:58:00 -
[81]
i add this to my submission
[Malediction, New Setup 3] Small Armor Repairer II Pseudoelectron Containment Field I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200 Fleeting Warp Disruptor I
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
"SPEED + GANK = SPANK... Spank that ***** up" |
Aoife Baelish
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.04 10:15:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Vanthropy i add this to my submission
[Malediction, New Setup 3] Small Armor Repairer II Pseudoelectron Containment Field I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200 Fleeting Warp Disruptor I
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
Glad to see you saw the light and noticed that fitting rockets is not only gimping yourself, but it also doesn't help your tanking at all, because they take a load of CPU, which is what frigates usually lack when it comes to active tanking. ---<---@ |
Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.12.04 14:04:00 -
[83]
Originally by: McEivalley
... when its resists bonus is negligble ...
Are you sure you know what you are talking about ? The resist bonus is one of the KEY things that make the Rokh a good choice for fleets ... |
Mostly Harmful
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Posted - 2008.12.04 16:39:00 -
[84]
Rocket Launcher II
A tiny launcher that can carry a very limited supply of rockets. Not really intended as a primary weapon but rather as a cheap supplementary weapon system.
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Aoife Baelish
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.04 22:22:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Mostly Harmful Rocket Launcher II
A tiny launcher that can carry a very limited supply of rockets. Not really intended as a primary weapon but rather as a cheap supplementary weapon system.
If they're not intended to be primary weapons, why does CCP make ships with a full rack of missile highslots and double bonus to rockets?
Either fix the rockets or make them become a real secondary weapon system by giving the Rocket ships useful bonuses instead. I'd prefer the former.
Also, linking item descriptions proves what? Those are as inaccurate as can be. ---<---@ |
Vanthropy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.04 22:36:00 -
[86]
yes, but it is sort of ironic is it not? "SPEED + GANK = SPANK... Spank that ***** up" |
McEivalley
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Posted - 2008.12.04 22:59:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
Originally by: McEivalley
... when its resists bonus is negligble ...
Are you sure you know what you are talking about ? The resist bonus is one of the KEY things that make the Rokh a good choice for fleets ...
Actually, I do... and it does make the Rokh easier to DD-proof. However, other ships can be DD-proved as well and all in all, cost a lot less and the differences are affordable. You still see more Megas, Apocs and Pests rather than Rokhs - a fact, albeit the seemingly favorable statistics of the latter.
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Thercon Jair
Minmatar InQuest Ascension Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.12.04 23:01:00 -
[88]
Oh wait, it can fit a tremendous tank and doesn't need cap to fire its weapons, while the DPS lack? So, please point me to another frigate that is able to run a setup that could include even a cap booster and 2 small armor repairers?
So, shall I start to rant about my unfair 2 resist holes in armor on my minnie T2 ships? "My tank sucks so much, I can't even deliver my oh so superior AC damage?"
Can you fit the same awesome tank when you go for Blasters or Standard launchers? I think not.
And pointing out I fail as a minmatar because I said that I see no problem with the DPS of rockets, only with their ability to hit a fast frigate with low signature? Real men do it the hard way: fly Minmatar! |
Vanthropy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.04 23:05:00 -
[89]
^^ look up there, I posted a dual-repping cap-boosting blaster-using vengeance. "SPEED + GANK = SPANK... Spank that ***** up" |
Corstaad
Minmatar Vardr ok Lidskjalv
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Posted - 2008.12.04 23:14:00 -
[90]
Please put down the EFT. The trolls have even got the mega whiners on there side now.
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Vanthropy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.04 23:23:00 -
[91]
hey hey hey now! Nothin' wrong with a little EFTin' don't shoot me down cowboy "SPEED + GANK = SPANK... Spank that ***** up" |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.12.04 23:46:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 04/12/2008 23:46:11
Originally by: Corstaad Please put down the EFT. The trolls have even got the mega whiners on there side now.
Too bad rockets suck both in eft and in actual combat... ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise |
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