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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Celeritas 5k
Connoisseurs of Candid Coitus
29
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Posted - 2012.04.12 01:27:00 -
[31] - Quote
Seconding the guys who say the orca doesn't fit this request-- I have no desire to train anything related to mining, but I still need to transport stuff too big for a regular hauler yet not worth a full size freighter. In a pinch you can throw mining lasers on a Rokh, but you sure as hell wouldn't use one over a hulk... |
Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
16
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Posted - 2012.04.12 11:24:00 -
[32] - Quote
I think the quotes on "works" were meant to indicate sarcasm. |
KevLor I
Zephyr Corp Black Thorne Alliance
7
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Posted - 2012.04.12 13:13:00 -
[33] - Quote
In the grand scheme of Eve, I can think of hundreds of other more useful things for CCP to be working on. If you need something bigger than an industrial, use a freighter. Moving lots of stuff is meant to be slow. |
Lando Tarsadan
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
12
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Posted - 2012.04.12 13:45:00 -
[34] - Quote
Henry Haphorn wrote:@ OP,
Not only that, the Orca and the Rorqual (it's low-sec brother) are the only two ships capable of operating three active gang links at once. All others will only operate one at a time unless fitted with certain modules that allow for more but take up precious slot space in the process.
Quite wrong a command ship like the volture (and other races counterparts) can also fit 3 gang links. |
Niko Takahashi
United Starbase Systems
29
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Posted - 2012.04.12 15:42:00 -
[35] - Quote
Can the orca fit the agility gang links ?
If yes then no middle freighter can beat this. It is fast can haul rigged ships plus nice sized cargo and ore on top.
If you need a faster freighter get the minmatar one.
Actually I regret my hauling alt trained for the gallente one.
The full capacity is rarely used so the minnie one fits the bill best sinceit is faster The alt is training for the Orca now. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
297
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Posted - 2012.04.12 17:45:00 -
[36] - Quote
Lando Tarsadan wrote:Henry Haphorn wrote:@ OP,
Not only that, the Orca and the Rorqual (it's low-sec brother) are the only two ships capable of operating three active gang links at once. All others will only operate one at a time unless fitted with certain modules that allow for more but take up precious slot space in the process. Quite wrong a command ship like the volture (and other races counterparts) can also fit 3 gang links.
Three "active" gang links turned on at once without the assistance of extra modules to do that? Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Barakach
R-ISK Shadow Operations.
42
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Posted - 2012.04.12 18:00:00 -
[37] - Quote
Aurel Svenson wrote:I think the quotes on "works" were meant to indicate sarcasm.
I wasn't sure if it was sarcastic or "it technically works, so who cares". |
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
102
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Posted - 2012.04.12 18:52:00 -
[38] - Quote
This thread is about the idea and if its good or not ... not to discuss the CCP staffing and work priorities .. they have people actually to do that.
So try to keep focused on the actual issue .. and let CCP figure out the rest since I kinda think they know it better anyway. |
Rimase
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
20
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Posted - 2012.04.12 20:49:00 -
[39] - Quote
Modular Freighter for the solo haulers.
Multiple Transports for the team haulers. (Mercenary contracts)
(Why CCP no improve Shareholding?): https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=71032#post71032 |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
81
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Posted - 2012.04.13 00:18:00 -
[40] - Quote
Reppyk wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:Orca is slower than a freighter. Freighter : warp in what, 45s ? Orca : 10s to enter warp. Moookaaaaaaaay.
Seriously??
An ORCA can only do the 10s warp if you pulse a MWD. To fit the MWD you sacrifice most of your tank.
So no, an ORCA fit for hauling capacity with a good tank is much slower than a freighter.
I have and use both. ORCA sucks as a hauler. The only situation an ORCA makes a good hauler is when hauling high value low volume stuff in the corp hanger with a maxed tank fit. Every other situation a freighter is superior. I have three characters trained to fly freighters and only one to fly ORCA. Only time I haul with the ORCA is on mining ops. |
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Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
41
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Posted - 2012.04.13 14:46:00 -
[41] - Quote
Aurel Svenson wrote:We have a corporate freighter already (I'm her corp-mate)
We would like a corporate mini-freighter as well. It's quite often we're moving loads between 60,000 and 200,000 m3... Honestly, the big freighter is really only needed for strontium clathrates as production materials.
Try to get 2 to 4 Iteron V than. |
kakarifar
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.04.13 20:04:00 -
[42] - Quote
Stop moaning and contract it to Red Frog Freight to move.. And then you can do something useful and possibly enjoyable with your time playing spaceships. |
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2012.04.13 22:06:00 -
[43] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:A 250,000 M3 smaller sized freighter would be nice. I agree. The Orca is great, but the 50Km3 ore bay is dedicated to ore, so it's not really 180Km3 total of generic hauling, unless you happen to hauling ore ... |
Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
430
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Posted - 2012.04.14 00:01:00 -
[44] - Quote
Most likely, after the ship rebalancing, the Orca won't require any level V skills anymore as it is considered to be a "capital" ship and not a T2 ship. If this happens, then it should only take you a week to skill into an Orca. |
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
21
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Posted - 2012.04.14 23:38:00 -
[45] - Quote
Henry Haphorn wrote:Lando Tarsadan wrote:Henry Haphorn wrote:@ OP,
Not only that, the Orca and the Rorqual (it's low-sec brother) are the only two ships capable of operating three active gang links at once. All others will only operate one at a time unless fitted with certain modules that allow for more but take up precious slot space in the process. Quite wrong a command ship like the volture (and other races counterparts) can also fit 3 gang links. Three "active" gang links turned on at once without the assistance of extra modules to do that? T2 Battlecruisers have two variants: One is "field command" which is mainly combat and better boosting, but only one command link. The other is "fleet command" with the ability to field 3 command links at once. Look it up. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2012.04.15 14:38:00 -
[46] - Quote
Orca isn't good enough for this? O'really?
Could you answer this question: Can your mini-freighter haul billions worth of stuff through bottleneck systems like Niarja without being gank magnet?
I know one sub capital ship that can do that. |
Infinite Force
Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance
32
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Posted - 2012.04.19 17:43:00 -
[47] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Orca isn't good enough for this? O'really?
Could you answer this question: Can your mini-freighter haul billions worth of stuff through bottleneck systems like Niarja without being gank magnet?
I know one sub capital ship that can do that. Really? This thread ultimately has nothing to do with the Orca or it not being "good enough". The Orca does an excellent job for what it's designed for and functions very well in a hauler role to boot.
These lame excuses and generic "you don't need that" statements however, have become over the years quite repetitive and boring. Create a courier contract - problem solved. All those "billions of worth stuff" can now be moved using that "other" hauler.
This isn't all about hauling billions using a non-scannable Corp hangar, it is about having an Industrial ship with no jump capabilities, a price tag around that of an Orca and a hold capacity on par wtih JFs.
The Industrial ship size progression is currently like this: Industrial (T1) --> Transports (T2) --> "Orca" --> Freighter --> Jump Freighter
It should progress more like this: Industrial (T1) --> Transports (T2) --> "Mini-Freighter" --> Freighter --> Jump Freighter
An Industrial pilot should not have to train a completely unrelevant skill (mining leadership) set just to fly a ship that has a 'secure hold', however, if you want the 'secure hold' space, then by all means, train for an Orca.
/sarcasitc troll on I'd be willing to bet that if this thread were about that shiny new combat ship that can gank those nasty industrialist before CONCORD arrives or pop that station hugger before they can redock, people would be all over the forums to support it. (I think you get the idea). /sarcastic troll off
+1 to the Mini-Freighter idea - though it should be in Features & Ideas HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud
Hammer Mineral Compression -á- The only way to go! |
Celeritas 5k
Connoisseurs of Candid Coitus
30
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Posted - 2012.04.19 18:46:00 -
[48] - Quote
kakarifar wrote:Stop moaning and contract it to Red Frog Freight to move.. And then you can do something useful and possibly enjoyable with your time playing spaceships.
Red frog's great and all, but sometimes they take a couple days and i want my stuffs moved now! |
Stonkeep
Osmanli Empire
6
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Posted - 2012.04.19 19:42:00 -
[49] - Quote
People need to stop bringing up Orca as a hauler. It is not a hauler and it was never meant/designed to be. Yes, people found a way to use it as a hauler but that does not make it a hauler.
There is definitely gap between Industrials and Freighters and it would be great if there was a new ship that could close that gap.
Personally I would like to see a mini-freighter that has;
200k-250k cargo space Faster and more agile More expensive than a freighter More resillient to ganks Make it a T2 or T3, i dont care
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KevLor I
Zephyr Corp Black Thorne Alliance
8
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Posted - 2012.04.19 20:06:00 -
[50] - Quote
Quote:200k-250k cargo space Faster and more agile More expensive than a freighter More resillient to ganks Make it a T2 or T3, i dont care
JFs are faster, more agile, cost more, are more resilient, are T2, and generally have 300k+ m3.
Sounds like a Jump Freighter - so basically, mini-freighters are already in the game, but after regular freighters (in progression) rather than before.
As stated by many who want 'MFs', these can be very useful, so much so that they cost a lot more in training and isk than the proposed MF. |
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Stonkeep
Osmanli Empire
6
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Posted - 2012.04.19 20:35:00 -
[51] - Quote
KevLor I wrote:Quote:200k-250k cargo space Faster and more agile More expensive than a freighter More resillient to ganks Make it a T2 or T3, i dont care
JFs are faster, more agile, cost more, are more resilient, are T2, and generally have 300k+ m3. Sounds like a Jump Freighter - so basically, mini-freighters are already in the game, but after regular freighters (in progression) rather than before. As stated by many who want 'MFs', these can be very useful, so much so that they cost a lot more in training and isk than the proposed MF.
Yes, you are certainly correct that what I have written sounds like a JF, unfortunately it is not.
When i said faster and more agile I meant better than a JF.
A JF with all skills level V aligns around 26 sec if I am right and about 40 sec with minimal skills. This is still too much.
A mini-freighter should align about 10-15 sec with all skills level V and 20-30 with minimal skills.
Also, JF still travels with 0.8 au/s which is extremly slow, a mini-freighter I was talking about should travel with 3 au/s or make this skill based like with minimal skill it travels with 1 au/s and with max skills 3 au/s.
Lasty, the more resilient could be made with modules and not with raw HP similar to Orca.
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CCP Spitfire
C C P C C P Alliance
1435
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Posted - 2012.04.20 10:14:00 -
[52] - Quote
Moved from "EVE General Discussion".
CCP Spitfire | Russian Community Coordinator @ccp_spitfire |
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Infinite Force
Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance
33
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Posted - 2012.04.20 16:18:00 -
[53] - Quote
Stonkeep wrote:KevLor I wrote:Quote:200k-250k cargo space Faster and more agile More expensive than a freighter More resillient to ganks Make it a T2 or T3, i dont care
JFs are faster, more agile, cost more, are more resilient, are T2, and generally have 300k+ m3. Sounds like a Jump Freighter - so basically, mini-freighters are already in the game, but after regular freighters (in progression) rather than before. As stated by many who want 'MFs', these can be very useful, so much so that they cost a lot more in training and isk than the proposed MF. Yes, you are certainly correct that what I have written sounds like a JF, unfortunately it is not. When i said faster and more agile I meant better than a JF. A JF with all skills level V aligns around 26 sec if I am right and about 40 sec with minimal skills. This is still too much. A mini-freighter should align about 10-15 sec with all skills level V and 20-30 with minimal skills. Also, JF still travels with 0.8 au/s which is extremly slow, a mini-freighter I was talking about should travel with 3 au/s or make this skill based like with minimal skill it travels with 1 au/s and with max skills 3 au/s. Lasty, the more resilient could be made with modules and not with raw HP similar to Orca.
Now that we're 'officially' in the F&I area:
+1 to: More Agile than a JF, Less agile than a Hauler or Transport Faster warp speed. 3 au/s is perfect, though I could live with 2.7 (about the same as an Orca) Modules - 0 H, 2M, 3L, no cargo expanders allowed, but maybe more tank / dc .. ? balance comes into play here Should cost LESS than a freighter, otherwise, an Orca will just be used - isn't that what we're trying to get around here? If we're making this a step between haulers/transports & freighters, then maybe require Transport Ships 4 or 5 ? HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud
Hammer Mineral Compression -á- The only way to go! |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
362
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Posted - 2012.04.20 19:28:00 -
[54] - Quote
I don't think it should be a step between skills wise. Just size wize.
You don't use a container truck to move something you could move in a panel van, but is too big for a pickup. Just looking for more ships to be opened up by the skill. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities. |
Stonkeep
Osmanli Empire
6
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Posted - 2012.04.21 01:36:00 -
[55] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:I don't think it should be a step between skills wise. Just size wize.
I can agree to that, like I said before it can be T2 or T3, it does not matter.
Infinite Force wrote: Should cost LESS than a freighter, otherwise, an Orca will just be used - isn't that what we're trying to get around here?
It should definitely cost MORE or there won't be much point to Freighters and Jump Freighters.
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Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids Pleasure Syndicate
170
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Posted - 2012.04.21 01:50:00 -
[56] - Quote
Try a Fenrir. Much more agile and quicker than a Charon. And cheaper too. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
362
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Posted - 2012.04.21 02:22:00 -
[57] - Quote
Stonkeep wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:I don't think it should be a step between skills wise. Just size wize.
I can agree to that, like I said before it can be T2 or T3, it does not matter. Infinite Force wrote: Should cost LESS than a freighter, otherwise, an Orca will just be used - isn't that what we're trying to get around here?
It should definitely cost MORE or there won't be much point to Freighters and Jump Freighters.
Less. The point of Freighters is they can carry a **** load. The point of Jump freighters is that they can jump.
the point of the mini freighter is: a: more agile/faster than a freighter. b: you aren't risking a stupid amount of isk, to move a lot less than full volume FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities. |
Jayrendo Karr
Suns Of Korhal Terran Commonwealth
55
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Posted - 2012.04.21 02:37:00 -
[58] - Quote
itty5 fleet. /thread. |
Celeritas 5k
Connoisseurs of Candid Coitus
36
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Posted - 2012.04.21 10:56:00 -
[59] - Quote
Jayrendo Karr wrote:itty5 fleet. /thread.
An entire fleet with less EHP than a BC, sounds like exactly the way I want to move my big expensive stuff. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
884
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Posted - 2012.04.21 14:36:00 -
[60] - Quote
Jayrendo Karr wrote:itty5 fleet. /thread.
The problem with that goes back to game balance. Why is the Itty5's raw capacity so far ahead of the other race's T1 industrials? Why aren't there level V skill industrials for the other races that get them up into the 35-40k m3 cargo (with T1 rigs)?
As for the mini-freighter:
- It should be T2, based off the max-size T1 industrial hull for that race - Target max capacity with all T2 expanders and T1 expander rigs should be about 180k m3 - Base hit points should be around 50k, with half of that in structure HP - Cost should be in the ballpark of the existing blockade runners and DSTs
(The existing DSTs would really be ideal for this, just by raising their base capacity and base hit points.) |
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