If you haul stuff a lot you might have Racial Industrial to V, and after that it only takes about an hour of training.
I'd train for it right now if the skillbooks didn't cost over 100 million for the pair.

Maybe just a boost to the tanky T2 haulers' cargo space? It's messed up that a mastodon has a smaller hold than an itty 5.

Orca is slower than a freighter.

Orca was created for this exact purpose.

Orca has quite a different skill hierarchy. Since the skills do no complement hauling, one can not consider the Orca a true hauler.

But it "works".

A screwdriver can work like a hammer if you flip it around. Shoehorning something into a role it is not meant to be, means it's sub-optimal.

The Orca has a lot of features that are useless to a hauler but have a meta cost.

It's not a huge request. Get a few people to do some art work for the 4 races, then have a few people discus it's shield/armor/hull/storage/etc. Not a whole lot of time and it would make some of us happier.

@ OP,



Not only that, the Orca and the Rorqual (it's low-sec brother) are the only two ships capable of operating three active gang links at once. All others will only operate one at a time unless fitted with certain modules that allow for more but take up precious slot space in the process.

Quite wrong a command ship like the volture (and other races counterparts) can also fit 3 gang links.

I think the quotes on "works" were meant to indicate sarcasm.

Freighter : warp in what, 45s ?
Orca : 10s to enter warp.

Moookaaaaaaaay.

We have a corporate freighter already (I'm her corp-mate)

We would like a corporate mini-freighter as well. It's quite often we're moving loads between 60,000 and 200,000 m3... Honestly, the big freighter is really only needed for strontium clathrates as production materials.

A 250,000 M3 smaller sized freighter would be nice.

Three "active" gang links turned on at once without the assistance of extra modules to do that?

Orca isn't good enough for this? O'really?

Could you answer this question:
Can your mini-freighter haul billions worth of stuff through bottleneck systems like Niarja without being gank magnet?

I know one sub capital ship that can do that.

Stop moaning and contract it to Red Frog Freight to move.. And then you can do something useful and possibly enjoyable with your time playing spaceships.

200k-250k cargo space
Faster and more agile
More expensive than a freighter
More resillient to ganks
Make it a T2 or T3, i dont care

JFs are faster, more agile, cost more, are more resilient, are T2, and generally have 300k+ m3.

Sounds like a Jump Freighter - so basically, mini-freighters are already in the game, but after regular freighters (in progression) rather than before.

As stated by many who want 'MFs', these can be very useful, so much so that they cost a lot more in training and isk than the proposed MF.

Yes, you are certainly correct that what I have written sounds like a JF, unfortunately it is not.

When i said faster and more agile I meant better than a JF.

A JF with all skills level V aligns around 26 sec if I am right and about 40 sec with minimal skills. This is still too much.

A mini-freighter should align about 10-15 sec with all skills level V and 20-30 with minimal skills.

Also, JF still travels with 0.8 au/s which is extremly slow, a mini-freighter I was talking about should travel with 3 au/s or make this skill based like with minimal skill it travels with 1 au/s and with max skills 3 au/s.


Lasty, the more resilient could be made with modules and not with raw HP similar to Orca.

I don't think it should be a step between skills wise. Just size wize.

Should cost LESS than a freighter, otherwise, an Orca will just be used - isn't that what we're trying to get around here?

I can agree to that, like I said before it can be T2 or T3, it does not matter.




It should definitely cost MORE or there won't be much point to Freighters and Jump Freighters.

itty5 fleet. /thread.

itty5 fleet. /thread.

A freighter holding 200,000 m3 or so taking the same training as a regular freighter and being a little faster, smaller and agile would be really cool. There's quite a gap between an industrial and a freighter and it really should be filled.

Don't bring up jump freighters, just don't...

it's called an Orca

Because Orcas have the same training requirements as freighters, and are more agile and cheaper too! And they're pretty decent as haulers, all things considered.

The ORCA is meant to be a mining hauler that gives mining bonuses. It is NOT meant to be a sub-cap freighter.

This **** about the fact that an Orca can be re-purposed into a 'mini freighter' is complete bull.
-The 'old' jump freighters required people to train into carriers.
--Carriers were getting used for cargo hauling more often than they were fighting because they were way more efficient than jumping a convoy down to null or such.
---CCP, noticing this strange bastardization of a combat/logistics ship made a (new ship) jump freighter to fit into that role, to fit into a logical training/progression set.
+ I think a small, sub-capital, more maneuverable-than-freighter-less-maneuverable-than-transport would fill a gap that exists within logical training towards hauling ships.

Not training for an Orca because of ~mining skills~ crew checking in. I always wanted a ship like an orca minus the ore hold. For exploration, it would be very nice to be able to haul around a frigate and a cruiser with me when changing areas of operation.

I would also like a maxi freighter somewhere around 5M m3 and then a super freighter at 10M m3 lets get some new and different sized ships out there. happy for it to take several years for art etc.......

Heh. I want one. Mentioned it in F&I

Something that's not on a totally different training track, and a lower asset risk, rather than traveling half empty.


The discussion
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=53470

you guys want the ship to cost less then a freighter, be less gankable then a freighter, and carry 220k m3? I got 2 letters for you...


OP

I'm happy with the speed of freighters. I'd like a little faster alignment time. Less ehp is a given. half would work for me.

Haulers need to come in small, medium, and large sizes.

Miners, too.

Wait, so lets say I am in the business of air transportation and I have a small 2 seater plane to start with, I eventually work up to a bit bigger cargo plane and i eventually need a bigger one because of all the business im getting but i don't have the money for a huge jumbo jet, looks like I have to train for a sky crane! even though that's meant for a completely different purpose and ill have to train for a completely different vehicle because Boeing and Airbus are to lazy to make a medium sized cargo plane, I mean the sky crane is already there why not let them use that? right? Oh sarcasm.

Actually it's more like this:
I'm in the business of moving dirt. I start with a little dump truck, and move my way up to bigger dump trucks, until I'm driving one of those ones that hogs both lanes at once: http://hybrids-trucks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Dump-Truck.jpg

My business moves along smoothly, but I just can't find a bigger truck! Finally, after years of searching to no avail, a German company called Krupp contacts me and tells me they want to sell me a Bagger 288: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Bagger-garzweiler.jpg

After seeing the price tag on that, as well as the manpower and skill requirements just to operate it, I tell them it's a bit out of my price range (that's an understatement!)

So, I finally sketch up a blueprint of what my business needs to move dirt to the next level, and show it to a vehicle manufacturing company. It looks something like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/Conventional_18-wheeler_truck_diagram.PNG

They laugh at me! "What possible use could you have for that," they ask me, snickering impetuously. "If you want to move that amount of dirt," one of them pipes up, "then why don't you just get one of these to do it with?" http://www.aerospaceguide.net/spacepictures/shuttle_endeavour.jpg
"That'll carry about the same amount you're trying to carry! Why make a new vehicle when there's a perfectly good vehicle already at your disposal?"

"Or howabout one of these," another one chimed in, "which are smaller than that Bagger 288 you couldn't afford?" http://www.pcdesktopwallpaper.com/albums/wallpapers-ships/Oil-Tanker-002.jpg

"We're sorry, we just don't understand how you could possibly find use for that 18-wheeler contraption you came up with when you have so many other great options to choose from!"

Keeping the real mini-freighter discussion towards the top.

I am wondering if it should require/be affected by "Advanced Spaceship Command" or just require "Spaceship Command" to 5.

Since the book is only 45 mil and we're talking about something we want in large part for agility, it should require ASC because then it can take advantage of it. If you skill ASC really high, then your mini-freighter will align pretty fast.

While you're at it Indy needs more ships period.

give it more ehp in armor and shields to boot, that way to can go along with my idea in my signature and be viable.

I'd like to see it be possible to put equipment on both full-size freighters and mini-freighters. Of course, simply adding slots to them without changing anything else will throw everything out of whack. But this whole freighters-have-no-slots thing just takes a lot of the work out of protecting your shipments, and turns cargo runs into "may God have mercy on me today".

Maybe if they had a bunch of shields and mid slots, but no low slots, it would work. They don't need any significant amount of powergrid. Just enough to run hardeners and shield rechargers is plenty. I say no low slots because people would just put cargo expanders in them, and the damage control module would become the apex module of freighter tanking.

Seconding the DST revamp idea.

They are on the skill path to freighter, are underused in their current form, and require skill investment (transports skill) to fully utilize. Ideally, they could be made to fit either their current role, or the mini freighter role, depending on fitting. Or add a 3rd ship to the Transport class if that just won't work out.