Originally by: Disturbing Presence

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c) your rights as a consumers.

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Originally by: Hannibal218

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i cant log in to the game after the "patch"

i get stuck in the 5th / 38 bulk data, is it only me ?

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Originally by: Nick Curso

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U know i went to subway today and they said "Due to cercumstances beyond our control, stocks of pepperoni, Han, Bacon and BBQ chicken are running low" I had to have my Pizziola Sub without Pepperoni and now THIS!!!!! GOODBYE CRUEL WORLD

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Quote:

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Perspective:
You can easily argue that CCP is slightly incompetent at times. But getting rich off not refunding $0.08 a few thousands of times? Use a calculator. You play for $0.50 per 24 hours. At most their WORK wasted $3520 because you hardly ever see more than 44,000 people in EVE during the middle of the week at 11-1530 GMT. And the "wasted" user money is more like $1800 based on normal logons.

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Quote:

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Yes CCP should be doing better QA. But if they met your demands for refunds -- you would likely find it more an inconvenience than satisfying. Somebody PayPal this guy 8 cents.

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Originally by: Sable Moran

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Originally by: Disturbing Presence

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c) your rights as a consumers.

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There's your rights:

CCP does not warrant that the operation of the System or your access to the System, or that your use of the Software, will be uninterrupted or error-free, nor that the System or Software will be compatible with your hardware and software.

More here.

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Originally by: Friffo

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Isn't there a way to calculate the hours of all the downtimes and give us like 1 day free or something? (i bet there is but i guess CCP dosen't wanna do it for obvious reasons)

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Originally by: Slinkus Gallentus

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Quote:

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The issue I, and I believe many other people on these forums, have with CCP is that they treat their paying customers like they are doing them a favour providing the product. They're not doing us a favour when we pay for said product. It is not a favour it is a business transaction.

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Leave it to a Gallente to argue over proper business ethics. Any threads out there about missiles and shields? I have strong opinions about both I'd like to express.

Originally by: AleRiperKilt

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"Unforeseen" issues are unacceptable and usually the result of overworked cowboy developer heroics.

Maybe Zulupark got overconfident with EVE64 results and pushed the team too hard?

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Originally by: Rauk Bascha

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Edited by: Rauk Bascha on 10/12/2008 15:48:22
Stein Bagger stole your hamsters?

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Originally by: StarFever

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Originally by: Hannibal218

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i cant log in to the game after the "patch"

i get stuck in the 5th / 38 bulk data, is it only me ?

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My client just works. I fail to see how a client could be patched effectively bfr ccp delivers their own...

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Originally by: Canabal Master

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Originally by: Friffo

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Isn't there a way to calculate the hours of all the downtimes and give us like 1 day free or something? (i bet there is but i guess CCP dosen't wanna do it for obvious reasons)

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I think that is why they give you a free trial when you start it is like credit towards all the downtime you gonna go through.

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Originally by: Slinkus Gallentus

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Quote:

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CCP claim to have over 200,000 cusmtomers. 200,000 x 8c = $16,000.

When phone companys go down for any appreciable amount of time due to their own failures they compensate all their customers, not just those they have predicted with their crystal balls who might've used the phone lines during the time it was not available.

It would not be difficult for CCP to whip up a bit of code and give their customers back the time they have paid for on their accounts that they have lost due to CCP extended downtimes.

The issue I, and I believe many other people on these forums, have with CCP is that they treat their paying customers like they are doing them a favour providing the product. They're not doing us a favour when we pay for said product. It is not a favour it is a business transaction.

Now, I understand that many people love this game, me included which is why I have been playing and paying for it for coming up for two years, but I'm not gonna pretend that I owe CCP any favours. It a business transaction. Not an emotional investment.

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Why doesn't CCP just refund regardless of common practice? Well in part because to refund those hundredths of a dollar to everyone would likely cost almost as much as the refund. After deducting all the handling fees fromthe refund you might owe CCP.

You got international bank fees (at least $0.25) for each account transaction plus 10-20 person hours of CCP staff time to send the refund and certify the exception for international accounting purposes. Oh wait they could just accept less next month and avoid banks. But wait now the programming job grows because the accounting system needs an exception this month only for people who paid the previous month but not for people who just singed up. What about people who decide not to pay next?


Basically you exaggerate your losses and "normal" business reactions quite a bit. you are hoping for something that just isn't commonly true. If you find your company B in MMOs go for it.

Most equivalent measure: your ISP go down for a few hours? Get a refund? Likely not unless it was more than 3 days - for a few hours . Cable TV out for a few hours? Refund again not until you are talking days. Satellite TV maybe if it is all channels and over 6 hours. Really there are not that many fixed fee continuous services that common people pay to which to compare.

When power goes out for storms you don't get charged for usage that can't happen -- but you get no refund of the fix connection fees either. Water out for hours or days - get a refund? Unlikely. Have a monthly or annual commuter bus or rail pass? Was it ever late? No refunds likely there. Use a toll road all year pass? When did they give you your refund for construction slow downs? Fire department was busy at a four alarm fire or their truck was down? Much more serious impact to you...get a tax refund? Bet not.

P.S. Telephone companies usually refund as the result of class action lawsuits or external legal directives (FCC, etc). The terms of which may or may not "refund" everyone - depends on record availability in many cases. Plus phone companies promise everyone can use service at once even when that is technically not true. CCP doesn't quite do that. Occasionally when they fail a few people phone companies refund to those few spontaneously -- some times in generousity but always in part to beat any class action lawsuits.

Originally by: Jed Clampett

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Originally by: Slinkus Gallentus

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Quote:

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CCP claim to have over 200,000 cusmtomers. 200,000 x 8c = $16,000.

When phone companys go down for any appreciable amount of time due to their own failures they compensate all their customers, not just those they have predicted with their crystal balls who might've used the phone lines during the time it was not available.

It would not be difficult for CCP to whip up a bit of code and give their customers back the time they have paid for on their accounts that they have lost due to CCP extended downtimes.

The issue I, and I believe many other people on these forums, have with CCP is that they treat their paying customers like they are doing them a favour providing the product. They're not doing us a favour when we pay for said product. It is not a favour it is a business transaction.

Now, I understand that many people love this game, me included which is why I have been playing and paying for it for coming up for two years, but I'm not gonna pretend that I owe CCP any favours. It a business transaction. Not an emotional investment.

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Why doesn't CCP just refund regardless of common practice? Well in part because to refund those hundredths of a dollar to everyone would likely cost almost as much as the refund. After deducting all the handling fees fromthe refund you might owe CCP.

You got international bank fees (at least $0.25) for each account transaction plus 10-20 person hours of CCP staff time to send the refund and certify the exception for international accounting purposes. Oh wait they could just accept less next month and avoid banks. But wait now the programming job grows because the accounting system needs an exception this month only for people who paid the previous month but not for people who just singed up. What about people who decide not to pay next?


Basically you exaggerate your losses and "normal" business reactions quite a bit. you are hoping for something that just isn't commonly true. If you find your company B in MMOs go for it.

Most equivalent measure: your ISP go down for a few hours? Get a refund? Likely not unless it was more than 3 days - for a few hours . Cable TV out for a few hours? Refund again not until you are talking days. Satellite TV maybe if it is all channels and over 6 hours. Really there are not that many fixed fee continuous services that common people pay to which to compare.

When power goes out for storms you don't get charged for usage that can't happen -- but you get no refund of the fix connection fees either. Water out for hours or days - get a refund? Unlikely. Have a monthly or annual commuter bus or rail pass? Was it ever late? No refunds likely there. Use a toll road all year pass? When did they give you your refund for construction slow downs? Fire department was busy at a four alarm fire or their truck was down? Much more serious impact to you...get a tax refund? Bet not.

P.S. Telephone companies usually refund as the result of class action lawsuits or external legal directives (FCC, etc). The terms of which may or may not "refund" everyone - depends on record availability in many cases. Plus phone companies promise everyone can use service at once even when that is technically not true. CCP doesn't quite do that. Occasionally when they fail a few people phone companies refund to those few spontaneously -- some times in generousity but always in part to beat any class action lawsuits.

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Pff its not that hard to implement a program that gives the players 5 hours till the next payment, anyway we dont CARE if they have that program or not, we want the hours back because they are ours, if they cant do that its their problem, and they should solve it also.

Originally by: Slinkus Gallentus

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Quote:

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The issue I, and I believe many other people on these forums, have with CCP is that they treat their paying customers like they are doing them a favour providing the product. They're not doing us a favour when we pay for said product. It is not a favour it is a business transaction.

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I entirely agree that the CCP people handling the PR during down times have tendency to lie and be rude. The rudeness probably comes form reading too many of the posts.

CCP should probably have two people assigned to PR -- (1) one to read posts and get all riled up and (2) one to write posts that inform people on how well things are going compared to the pre-downtime timetable. If #1 comes up with anything really needing a response, it should be written by #2.

I did find appalling stupid on a previous downtime when a developer jumped all over a guy for saying CCP was going to miss the deadline when there was a 8 whole minutes left. Obviously the developer was lying through his teeth about it still being realistic to meet that deadline. After all it takes the servers at least 10 minutes to reboot and that hadn't even started. For downtimes CCP needs to stop denying the obvious things and being open and honest where they really are in time table and checklists of events. They might get 3% less flak.

But those of you who demand perfection and 0% downtimes? Well CCP needs about 3-4 times as much money to do that and still make some profit. Then we can have 3 full-blown real time server setups: 1 to play on, 1 for testing all software 100% realistically before deployment, and 1 for spare in case something happens to either of the others. Oh and the staff to man at least 2 of those full time and run daily or weekly checks on the third. Anyone want to ante up their accounts that way and the extra fee on mine as well?

Originally by: Slinkus Gallentus

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When phone companys go down for any appreciable amount of time due to their own failures they compensate all their customers, not just those they have predicted with their crystal balls who might've used the phone lines during the time it was not available.

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Originally by: Kryttos

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unforseen network issue = socket errors for everyone every 10 seconds :P

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