EVE Search - Another Falcon Thread

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Another Falcon Thread

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
MADDOGzors THE FINAL STAND Red Box.	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:19:00 - [1] First of all, this is by no means a thread to complain about falcons. Instead lets just analyze their effect on our gameplay and I'll let you decide. Scenario 1 - Lets say you're one of the few solo battleship pilots left out there. You roam all night, finally find a fight and get your fraps going. But of course the guy uncloaks his falcon alt and ruins it. Not only does it stomp on your fun, but you just lost footage for your movie you're trying to make because you sat there jammed for 5 minutes and slowly die to opponents you out-skill. Scenario 2 - You and your 5 man gang go out looking for some good fights. You have 4 battleships and a heavy dictor. You find a gang that out numbers you but being ****y and knowing you can take them you engage. They uncloak 2 falcons and you're all perma-jammed. Fun, and the fight, ruined again. Scenario 3 - Your corp/alliance decides to get a large battleship gang together and go roaming. You have 15 battleships in a RR gang. Clearly able to take on any faction warfare blob right? Wrong. 90% of the time these FW fleets have 4-5 falcons/blackbirds at least. I've personally seen 7 in a fleet of 25-30. Sure you should be able to tear apart 20 cruisers and assorted ships. But of course you can't target anything or rep your corpmates. Yet again, doesn't sound like fun does it? I know a lot of you are thinking that there's a lot of ways to counter falcons. Falcons of your own, sniping apocs, chasing them off with HACs, and ECCM. Well we all know ECCM doesn't always work. Sure HACs chasing them around helps, but not against 4-5 falcons in a big fight. And falcons of your own, but why contribute to the problem? Ya a sniping apoc will tear them apart, but what about when they learn after one fight to primary your apocs every time, or whatever sniping ship you have. Does it seem right to have one ship affect the turnout of a fight in such a big way? It can sit up to 249km out and eliminating a potential 6 ships, but lets say 3 on average. Pilgrims, 2 tracking disruptors. Arazus, 2-3 damps. Rapiers, 2 webs. Falcon, 6 jammers. Does this seem balanced to you? Can any of those recons do anywhere near what the falcon can and at that range? Would you enjoy pvp more if there was a change? I know I would. Would it seem right if a fight was actually affected by your skill and tactics rather than 1 ship simply locking targets and hitting 1 module? Again, this is by no means meant to come off as complaining. I'd like to hear input from other competent pvp'ers, and not people trolling threads.
Research Rachel	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:28:00 - [2] would you like cheese with your whine? you say your not complaining about falcons then go whine about your fail-fit bs gangs? bs's with no support is bad, ok? bs's with no eccm fitted is bad, ok? falcon's making you crywhine on eve-o, is goooood
MADDOGzors THE FINAL STAND Red Box.	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:32:00 - [3] I said input from competent pvpers not trolls. If you had a clue about anything you would know ECCM in a RR gang is the norm, along with support. I'm making points, looking for others opinions, grow up and make a logical response for once.
Evlyna	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:32:00 - [4] Edited by: Evlyna on 17/12/2008 12:34:48 Personnally, I would say that it's your gameplay that is fail. (But that is more a personal opinion of course as every gameplay is... personal). A solo BS? Solo pvp is rare these days. If your solo BS appears to be too much to a target but said target still engages... obviously he has someone behind watching his back. 4 BS + Dictor? You deserved to die as you didn't have at least 1 or 2 support. None mentioned at least. 15 BS, no mention of support - "Clearly able to take on any faction warfare blob right?" - WRONG. There is no difference in that scenario than in the previous one. Falcons fill a role that no other ships can. Either use them at your advantage... or die to them. Besides, they are paperweight. A few volleys from a sniping ship they didn't jam and byebye falcon. You are bringing the wrong ships/fit to the wrong fights. That's all there is to say tbh.
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:50:00 - [5] Edited by: maralt on 17/12/2008 12:51:16 Originally by: MADDOGzors Scenario 1 - Lets say you're one of the few solo battleship pilots left out there. You roam all night, finally find a fight and get your fraps going. But of course the guy uncloaks his falcon alt and ruins it. Not only does it stomp on your fun, but you just lost footage for your movie you're trying to make because you sat there jammed for 5 minutes and slowly die to opponents you out-skill. If your in a gunnery BS he could uncloak a recon with tracking disruptors and have the same effect if not better as he would be guaranteed to disrupt your tracking instead of being chance based. Damps are also highly effective against solo ships when used correctly. Originally by: MADDOGzors Scenario 2 - You and your 5 man gang go out looking for some good fights. You have 4 battleships and a heavy dictor. You find a gang that out numbers you but being ****y and knowing you can take them you engage. They uncloak 2 falcons and you're all perma-jammed. Fun, and the fight, ruined again. I see the words perma-jamming/jammed a lot in these threads and it always makes me chuckle. But even without that exaggeration the fact is that a mixed and versatile gang that includes ewar in it should be considerably more effective than a gang without it.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.12.17 12:50:00 - [6] Originally by: Research Rachel would you like cheese with your whine? you say your not complaining about falcons then go whine about your fail-fit bs gangs? bs's with no support is bad, ok? bs's with no eccm fitted is bad, ok? falcon's making you crywhine on eve-o, is goooood Geesh thats alot of words for "I suck so I blob and get my kills that way so ECM is never a problem for me anyway". ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.12.17 13:10:00 - [7] Most ppl i see against ecm are the sort that love to fly in their solo or 2-3 man teams running around and setup knowing almost exactly what they can beat and cannot beat. Falcons and ECM throw a spanner in the works of these rather stagnant type of pvpers by forcing them to adapt their style fittings and ship choices.
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.12.17 13:30:00 - [8] TBH I would like to see ECCM boosted or balanced a little. Currently ECCM is basically anti-ecm only; they only are good to have in the case of falcons showing up to jam you... While say Sensor Booster or signal amplifiers are the anti-gallente recon... but they also serve to boost the ship who uses it in a meaningful way. How do you get function from eccm? I dunno. Obviously gallente recons need a boost. personally I want a -max locked targets thing built into the remote sensor damps. Move the gallente recon ewar more to signal amplifiers being the counter rather then sensor booster. Alternatively all MADDOGzors says is yawntastic. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded.

CCP Mitnal C C P	Posted - 2008.12.17 23:01:00 - [9] Moved to Ships & Mods. Mitnal Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Email

Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.17 23:10:00 - [10] Originally by: MADDOGzors I said input from competent pvpers not trolls. If you had a clue about anything you would know ECCM in a RR gang is the norm, along with support. I'm making points, looking for others opinions, grow up and make a logical response for once. If you had a clue about anything you would not post whinetopics but kill stuff instead.
LadyLubU2 Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.12.17 23:19:00 - [11] Totally agreed with the OP. And a shame the thread is full with falcon fanbois already. -- Sig: NARF FALCONS!!! Please resixe image to the maxiumum allowed filesize of 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator
Writ Insand	Posted - 2008.12.17 23:25:00 - [12] Quote: You have 15 battleships in a RR gang. Clearly able to take on any faction warfare blob right? Wrong. 90% of the time these FW fleets have 4-5 falcons/blackbirds at least. I've personally seen 7 in a fleet of 25-30. Sure you should be able to tear apart 20 cruisers and assorted ships. Why do you feel that 15 battleships should be able to 'tear apart' any number of smaller vessels regardless of the enemy's fleet composition or tactics?
Yoko Lee Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.17 23:32:00 - [13] I hate falcon Alt, and you? Now if you have a alt, you have a falcon for sure.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.12.17 23:34:00 - [14] Originally by: Yoko Lee I hate falcon Alt, and you? Now if you have a alt, you have a falcon for sure. no my alt is for a zealot :)
Aleus Stygian Failed Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.12.17 23:35:00 - [15] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Research Rachel would you like cheese with your whine? you say your not complaining about falcons then go whine about your fail-fit bs gangs? bs's with no support is bad, ok? bs's with no eccm fitted is bad, ok? falcon's making you crywhine on eve-o, is goooood Geesh thats alot of words for "I suck so I blob and get my kills that way so ECM is never a problem for me anyway". Originally by: Writ Insand Why do you feel that 15 battleships should be able to 'tear apart' any number of smaller vessels regardless of the enemy's fleet composition or tactics? These things nudge upon some of my thoughts. Why the heck are we talking battleships here? They are big, slow, tiresome, costly and generally really only fit for the thick, damage-soaking, uncomplicated slugheads that are generally very droooooohhh waitaminute... Aleus Stygian snaps his fingers and feigns having an epiphany The range! That's it! Riiight, we're talking battleships because they are pretty much the only ships that have the range to reach Falcons. Good call. The alternatives would be either another Falcon or an Eagle. Aleus Stygian tries his best House impression So! Differential procedure, people! The symptoms are conclusive; we have a Falcon, and it's been complicated by the metagame. We know what the disease is, but... for treatment we have only a choice between boring, boring ooooorrr... horribly inefficient and possibly lethal to the patient. We need another option. _________________________________________________________
baltec1 R.U.S.T. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.12.17 23:45:00 - [16] You lack support while they do not, this is why you are not having much success. While the falcon does have 6 jammers that does not mean 6 ships will be out of action. There have been a few times I have had a falcon fail to jam me for an entire fight due to ECCM. The falcon is a very specialised ship and is weak in every single area other than ECM. I would quite happily engage 10 falcons in my solo bomber as I have developed tactics that make it almost impossible for them to fight back.
MADDOGzors THE FINAL STAND Red Box.	Posted - 2008.12.18 00:17:00 - [17] I remember now why I don't post here expecting a normal discussion. 90% of you simply just don't have a clue, and assume every person making a thread is a nub. Fact is falcons are a problem, especially when people that suck at pvp feel the need to bring 5 of them because they can't compete if other people are actually allowed to lock them. If you people can't understand that, you're just one of those people over-using them.
arbalesttom Rulers Of Mankind	Posted - 2008.12.18 00:19:00 - [18] Edited by: arbalesttom on 18/12/2008 00:19:50 Originally by: MADDOGzors I remember now why I don't post here expecting a normal discussion. 90% of you simply just don't have a clue, and assume every person making a thread is a nub. Fact is falcons are a problem, especially when people that suck at pvp feel the need to bring 5 of them because they can't compete if other people are actually allowed to lock them. If you people can't understand that, you're just one of those people over-using them. /Signed for truth and common sense. edit: forgot the bloody / *Sig*
baltec1 R.U.S.T. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.12.18 00:45:00 - [19] Originally by: MADDOGzors I remember now why I don't post here expecting a normal discussion. 90% of you simply just don't have a clue, and assume every person making a thread is a nub. Fact is falcons are a problem, especially when people that suck at pvp feel the need to bring 5 of them because they can't compete if other people are actually allowed to lock them. If you people can't understand that, you're just one of those people over-using them. Again, I wouldnt fear that. 5 bombers rather than 5 BS will rip them apart in a single salvo and so long as you are using the corret tactics you will not take any losses unless you get unlucky.
MADDOGzors THE FINAL STAND Red Box.	Posted - 2008.12.18 00:54:00 - [20] K, maybe I should be more clear. We are pirates in low-sec, I'm not getting out of my battleship to hop in a SB just because of falcons and only be able to engage 150km+ from gates where most fights happen. Your tactic may work elsewhere but not in our situation.
baltec1 R.U.S.T. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.12.18 01:28:00 - [21] Originally by: MADDOGzors K, maybe I should be more clear. We are pirates in low-sec, I'm not getting out of my battleship to hop in a SB just because of falcons and only be able to engage 150km+ from gates where most fights happen. Your tactic may work elsewhere but not in our situation. Use a bait ship and bombers can work. If its you running the camp then a falcon will either end up on top of you or 100km, well within range of bombers. Another tactic is to use the falcons extream range against it. Have a cov ops make a warp in point 180km away from the turrets. Use a ship with dedicated fleet assist rolls to provide reps and remote ECCM to those who need it. The bulk of your fleet will be sniper BS. Primary the falcons, then their logistics, then their heavy hitters and mop up whatever is left.
Davina Braben	Posted - 2008.12.18 01:32:00 - [22] Your tictacs suck.
baltec1 R.U.S.T. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.12.18 01:36:00 - [23] Originally by: Davina Braben Your tictacs suck. work fine for me and always have done. but maby thats because I have the attitude of bringing a ship to fill a roll rather than just gank and tank.
MADDOGzors THE FINAL STAND Red Box.	Posted - 2008.12.18 01:40:00 - [24] K, I'll go even more into detail. These are normally 20-30 man gangs with 5 falcons. All in cruisers, frigs, and bs's. You can't put a bunch of sniping bs's up against that. They never engage us on our terms. It's a FW blob of nubs. They won't fight unless they have their ecm setup up at range. Then you have those gangs plus battleship gangs joining them just because we're pirates. You can't focus your fleet around falcons when you have that much incoming dps. Trust me we've been dealing with this since FW came out. There's no real solution. It's a pathetic tactic people use that makes them feel safe. Now you get rid of those falcons, put them in any other ship and they get decimated. But because they have a falcon blob they get more kills than they should. The only way to combat that is have a falcon blob of your own, which doesn't make pvp any more fun. We can sit here and talk tactics all day but just trust me, it a nub tactic they take advantage of.
baltec1 R.U.S.T. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.12.18 01:48:00 - [25] Originally by: MADDOGzors K, I'll go even more into detail. These are normally 20-30 man gangs with 5 falcons. All in cruisers, frigs, and bs's. You can't put a bunch of sniping bs's up against that. They never engage us on our terms. It's a FW blob of nubs. They won't fight unless they have their ecm setup up at range. Then you have those gangs plus battleship gangs joining them just because we're pirates. You can't focus your fleet around falcons when you have that much incoming dps. Trust me we've been dealing with this since FW came out. There's no real solution. It's a pathetic tactic people use that makes them feel safe. Now you get rid of those falcons, put them in any other ship and they get decimated. But because they have a falcon blob they get more kills than they should. The only way to combat that is have a falcon blob of your own, which doesn't make pvp any more fun. We can sit here and talk tactics all day but just trust me, it a nub tactic they take advantage of. I have seen plenty of falcon heavy fleets ripped apart by smaller fleets with no ECM including my own. The only ships I have not killed are the titans.
Mire Stoude Cash Money Brothers	Posted - 2008.12.18 02:30:00 - [26] I love me some Falcon threads. I just cannot seem to get enough of them.
J Tang	Posted - 2008.12.18 02:40:00 - [27] Originally by: MADDOGzors K, I'll go even more into detail. These are normally 20-30 man gangs with 5 falcons. All in cruisers, frigs, and bs's. You can't put a bunch of sniping bs's up against that. They never engage us on our terms. It's a FW blob of nubs. They won't fight unless they have their ecm setup up at range. Then you have those gangs plus battleship gangs joining them just because we're pirates. You can't focus your fleet around falcons when you have that much incoming dps. Trust me we've been dealing with this since FW came out. There's no real solution. It's a pathetic tactic people use that makes them feel safe. Now you get rid of those falcons, put them in any other ship and they get decimated. But because they have a falcon blob they get more kills than they should. The only way to combat that is have a falcon blob of your own, which doesn't make pvp any more fun. We can sit here and talk tactics all day but just trust me, it a nub tactic they take advantage of. From the way you describe this, it sounds like the group you're fighting has engaged you (or vise versa) on multiple occassions. Perhaps the reason why you're not succeeding is simply because they know what you're bringing to the table and they have their setup to counter. If this is the case, switch it up. You're playing your hand face up, but it doesn't matter because your pair of 3s are counterfeit to the board... If this isn't the case then forget all of what I've said.
Writ Insand	Posted - 2008.12.18 02:59:00 - [28] Quote: I'm not getting out of my battleship to hop in a SB just because of falcons...Now you get rid of those falcons, put them in any other ship and they get decimated. Well, if it is as you say and battleships are the counter to every fleet composition except those using falcons, it would seem to me that either battleships need to be nerfed or all non-battleship classes except falcons need to be buffed. Remote-repping battleships > all is not balance.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2008.12.18 03:06:00 - [29] Originally by: MADDOGzors These are normally 20-30 man gangs with 5 falcons. All in cruisers, frigs, and bs's. You can't put a bunch of sniping bs's up against that. Is your complaint that BBs are not designed to kill frigates and cruisers? Quote: They never engage us on our terms. Who in their right minds engages an enemy fleet when the enemy fleet has the advantage? Why would they engage you on your terms? Quote: They won't fight unless they have their ecm setup up at range. So you know their tactics, now find a way to handle it. Warp an assault frigate in to 100km and have it then warp right up to the Falcons and smack them in the face. Quote: But because they have a falcon blob they get more kills than they should. I would argue that since you fail to deny them use of their Falcons, they've won the fight before it actually started. Quote: it a nub tactic they take advantage of. So find a way to make their tactics work against them. Interceptors and Assault Frigates come to mind. A Vexor with multispec sensors and a few sentry drones might help too. A Drake loaded with FoF missiles, a TP drone on aggressive, or whatnot. They've found a tactic that works. Have you tried changing your tactics to counter them? Note that their tactic so far appears to be: set trap, bait it, wait for blundering pirates to fall into it. Besides, the fact that you've locked yourselves into Hagilur kinda makes it easy to figure out where to lay the trap, doesn't it?
MADDOGzors THE FINAL STAND Red Box.	Posted - 2008.12.18 04:31:00 - [30] Ok listen, I'm not trying to be a *****. But I don't need advice, I know what I'm doing. And if you would read, you would know we're pirates, so ya frigates on a gate, not a good idea. What are you talking about Hagilur for? We moved from there months ago. Stop trying to assume our fleet composition. It's battleships, recons, dictors, hacs, anything that can tank gate guns during a fight. So quit over-analyzing all this, it's real simple. They have a falcon blob, it's a nub fleet, half of us can't lock, they can. I'm not saying we lose engagements, but it's annoying when people needlessly die because of 5 falcons. Think about it for a second. You're a nub in a FW fleet of like 30 people. You see a pirate gang of 10-15, that has owned you for months. Oh god we know the pirates are better so uh lets just bring excessive ecm and they won't be able to hurt us as bad. To make a point, when they only bring 1-2 falcons at most, they get owned. But when its 4,5 or even 6, that's a little excessive. And don't try to tell me crap about fighting on their terms, we know what we're doing.

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.