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t00r
   |
Posted - 2004.07.20 07:48:00 -
[211]
no: to removing players from local.
Local only shows u what u would find on the scanner anyway, u still have to use directional to find position, I would prolly implement this change if i couldnt fix the ongoing local chat bug.
yes: to removing players in space.
This would help the freelancer/small corps to engage in mining/npc hunting ops 'out there' a lot more. If noone knew there were ppl in a system it may bring more ppl out to .0 space as intended from the beginning.
Very few ppl show concern for the smaller corps out there anymore, not everyone is into alliances & mega corps, and .0 sec systems are not made only for pvp, the rarest ores are found there & atm small mining/manufactoring corps are finding it hard to make ends meet.
Withholding map information to as how many ppl are in what sector would definately boost smaller corps mining ops.
Remember, this is a game & everybody wants to play it.
__________________________________________
1.9 How can I participate in beta testing EVE? |
t00r
|
Posted - 2004.07.20 07:48:00 -
[212]
no: to removing players from local.
Local only shows u what u would find on the scanner anyway, u still have to use directional to find position, I would prolly implement this change if i couldnt fix the ongoing local chat bug.
yes: to removing players in space.
This would help the freelancer/small corps to engage in mining/npc hunting ops 'out there' a lot more. If noone knew there were ppl in a system it may bring more ppl out to .0 space as intended from the beginning.
Very few ppl show concern for the smaller corps out there anymore, not everyone is into alliances & mega corps, and .0 sec systems are not made only for pvp, the rarest ores are found there & atm small mining/manufactoring corps are finding it hard to make ends meet.
Withholding map information to as how many ppl are in what sector would definately boost smaller corps mining ops.
Remember, this is a game & everybody wants to play it.
__________________________________________
1.9 How can I participate in beta testing EVE? |
Stavros
|
Posted - 2004.07.20 08:22:00 -
[213]
One thing also I notice about the yes voters in this thread is that they all have COMPLETELY different reasons for wanting the change effected aas well as different opinions on which parts of the 2 changes to implement.
Some say it will stop blob wars, some say will stop piracy, some say will INCREASE piracy, some say it will make blob wars worse, some say it will increase access to alliance space, some say it will make bloackades more effective and gankings far far worse.
Basically the for arguements are a mish mash of quite frankly amateurish and contradictory views without any form of coherence or standard theory.
Also its rather interesting to note how many of the yes votes have no corps and are presumably either alts or people who are too young (in eve terms) to have joined a corp... Just an observation.
NATCHO!
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Stavros
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Posted - 2004.07.20 08:22:00 -
[214]
One thing also I notice about the yes voters in this thread is that they all have COMPLETELY different reasons for wanting the change effected aas well as different opinions on which parts of the 2 changes to implement.
Some say it will stop blob wars, some say will stop piracy, some say will INCREASE piracy, some say it will make blob wars worse, some say it will increase access to alliance space, some say it will make bloackades more effective and gankings far far worse.
Basically the for arguements are a mish mash of quite frankly amateurish and contradictory views without any form of coherence or standard theory.
Also its rather interesting to note how many of the yes votes have no corps and are presumably either alts or people who are too young (in eve terms) to have joined a corp... Just an observation.
NATCHO!
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Sinist
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Posted - 2004.07.20 08:39:00 -
[215]
Edited by: Sinist on 20/07/2004 08:40:13
Stav man you dont see anyone else spamming this thread defending their point. We heard your reasong the first 10000000000000000000 times. Gawd you figure you being a PVPer would want this. But you just want to dumb down the game and make it easy for what you do. Your opinions will ruin this game. Just pls stop arguiing everyone's opinion. Wait and see what happens like the rest of us.
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Sinist
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Posted - 2004.07.20 08:39:00 -
[216]
Edited by: Sinist on 20/07/2004 08:40:13
Stav man you dont see anyone else spamming this thread defending their point. We heard your reasong the first 10000000000000000000 times. Gawd you figure you being a PVPer would want this. But you just want to dumb down the game and make it easy for what you do. Your opinions will ruin this game. Just pls stop arguiing everyone's opinion. Wait and see what happens like the rest of us.
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Vel Kyri
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Posted - 2004.07.20 08:39:00 -
[217]
basically the current situation sucks.
1: pilots in space...
the current situation is that alliances can spot ANYONE in "their territory" and go pounce on them - it also allows pirates to look for mining ops and go hit targets of opportunity - and it also gives rise to blob wars.
all of these are BAD things - and all cause by pilots in space(and other information)
so - removing "pilots in space" is a good first step.
It will allow smaller groups to mine without worrying about attracting attention from the map...
it will also reduce the power of the alliances (a good thing imho) as they now have to "police" their territory - giving the smaller group the chance to expand into 0.0 space and potentially stay hidden.
problem with removing pilots in space is that it becomes harder to find ppl to shoot at.
removing list of pilots in local...
ok - this basically makes travel more risky - you dont know how many ppl are in a system. this make life MUCH more dangerous to unwary travellers (potentially) but also MUCH safer for careful travellers.
if you travel in a group - and CHECK the gates before warping/jumping by sending small fast scouts, you will be much safer. cloaking will be very very useful here.
the end result of the proposed idea from Oveur would be that travel in 0.0 space would slow down, and people would clump together. PvP would change from blob-war stalemates into something else - probably more creative.
This is a good start - although personally i would say remove ALL map information, and nerf the map a whole lot more to boot.
i also want instabookmarks and safespots removed as there are other ways of getting the EXACT SAME functionality by using gang mates... <shrug>
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Vel Kyri
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Posted - 2004.07.20 08:39:00 -
[218]
basically the current situation sucks.
1: pilots in space...
the current situation is that alliances can spot ANYONE in "their territory" and go pounce on them - it also allows pirates to look for mining ops and go hit targets of opportunity - and it also gives rise to blob wars.
all of these are BAD things - and all cause by pilots in space(and other information)
so - removing "pilots in space" is a good first step.
It will allow smaller groups to mine without worrying about attracting attention from the map...
it will also reduce the power of the alliances (a good thing imho) as they now have to "police" their territory - giving the smaller group the chance to expand into 0.0 space and potentially stay hidden.
problem with removing pilots in space is that it becomes harder to find ppl to shoot at.
removing list of pilots in local...
ok - this basically makes travel more risky - you dont know how many ppl are in a system. this make life MUCH more dangerous to unwary travellers (potentially) but also MUCH safer for careful travellers.
if you travel in a group - and CHECK the gates before warping/jumping by sending small fast scouts, you will be much safer. cloaking will be very very useful here.
the end result of the proposed idea from Oveur would be that travel in 0.0 space would slow down, and people would clump together. PvP would change from blob-war stalemates into something else - probably more creative.
This is a good start - although personally i would say remove ALL map information, and nerf the map a whole lot more to boot.
i also want instabookmarks and safespots removed as there are other ways of getting the EXACT SAME functionality by using gang mates... <shrug>
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Sinist
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Posted - 2004.07.20 08:41:00 -
[219]
Did you even to bother reading the blog? They are going to put in a system scanner so basically you will still have local. It will just be on your scanner. How is that making it any more dangerous. CCP do what you want with your game. If you sit here and listen to everyone we arent going to get anywhere.
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Sinist
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Posted - 2004.07.20 08:41:00 -
[220]
Did you even to bother reading the blog? They are going to put in a system scanner so basically you will still have local. It will just be on your scanner. How is that making it any more dangerous. CCP do what you want with your game. If you sit here and listen to everyone we arent going to get anywhere.
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Vel Kyri
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Posted - 2004.07.20 08:53:00 -
[221]
/me agrees with sinst..
just do what you want CCP - your game.
We'll adjust - just like we have to everything else you've done before.
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Vel Kyri
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Posted - 2004.07.20 08:53:00 -
[222]
/me agrees with sinst..
just do what you want CCP - your game.
We'll adjust - just like we have to everything else you've done before.
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t00r
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Posted - 2004.07.20 08:54:00 -
[223]
 Originally by: Sinist
Stav man you dont see anyone else spamming this thread.
Originally by: Sinist
Your opinions will ruin this game.
Yeah, 1 guys opinion always gets ccps attention.
Originally by: Sinist
Just pls stop arguiing everyone's opinion. Wait and see what happens like the rest of us.
deÀbate
To engage in a formal discussion or argument.
To discuss or argue (a question, for example) formally.
A discussion involving opposing points; an argument.
A formal contest of argumentation in which two opposing teams defend and attack a given proposition.
Conflict.
If there were more explanations of votes then maybe more ppl can see why a) it could be a good thing. or b) its could be a bad thing. Theres really no need to flame/abuse posters.
__________________________________________
1.9 How can I participate in beta testing EVE? |
t00r
|
Posted - 2004.07.20 08:54:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Sinist
Stav man you dont see anyone else spamming this thread.
Originally by: Sinist
Your opinions will ruin this game.
Yeah, 1 guys opinion always gets ccps attention.
Originally by: Sinist
Just pls stop arguiing everyone's opinion. Wait and see what happens like the rest of us.
deÀbate
To engage in a formal discussion or argument.
To discuss or argue (a question, for example) formally.
A discussion involving opposing points; an argument.
A formal contest of argumentation in which two opposing teams defend and attack a given proposition.
Conflict.
If there were more explanations of votes then maybe more ppl can see why a) it could be a good thing. or b) its could be a bad thing. Theres really no need to flame/abuse posters.
__________________________________________
1.9 How can I participate in beta testing EVE? |
Dajar Binks
|
Posted - 2004.07.20 09:01:00 -
[225]
\o/
--
Freelance miner, cap'tain of the 'Ro´d Nightmare' (Thorax class)
Freelance Freighter, cap'tain of the 'Galtouze' (Iteron IV class, 12 000 m3)
"Moi le Troll. Moi le laideron. Moi je vous martÞle le crÔne. Vous le sans tÛte. Moi le dÚsormais magnifique."
Extrait - La psykologie du Troll vol. XXX (bible de Sac) |
Dajar Binks
|
Posted - 2004.07.20 09:01:00 -
[226]
\o/
--
Freelance miner, cap'tain of the 'Ro´d Nightmare' (Thorax class)
Freelance Freighter, cap'tain of the 'Galtouze' (Iteron IV class, 12 000 m3)
"Moi le Troll. Moi le laideron. Moi je vous martÞle le crÔne. Vous le sans tÛte. Moi le dÚsormais magnifique."
Extrait - La psykologie du Troll vol. XXX (bible de Sac) |
Gween
|
Posted - 2004.07.20 09:05:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Vel Kyri
/me agrees with sinst..
just do what you want CCP - your game.
We'll adjust - just like we have to everything else you've done before.
Maybe CCP owns this Game and our Stuff, but we are here and pay to play and if CCP just do what they want - free space for the 'adobt or die' 4k players max. online, like back to september '03! Yay, wouldnt that be great?
--------------
Coffee'n'Toffee makes Gween happy
Coffee'n'Toffee makes Gween happy
... |
Gween
|
Posted - 2004.07.20 09:05:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Vel Kyri
/me agrees with sinst..
just do what you want CCP - your game.
We'll adjust - just like we have to everything else you've done before.
Maybe CCP owns this Game and our Stuff, but we are here and pay to play and if CCP just do what they want - free space for the 'adobt or die' 4k players max. online, like back to september '03! Yay, wouldnt that be great?
--------------
Coffee'n'Toffee makes Gween happy
Coffee'n'Toffee makes Gween happy
... |
Sinist
|
Posted - 2004.07.20 09:06:00 -
[229]
Edited by: Sinist on 20/07/2004 09:13:21
Edited by: Sinist on 20/07/2004 09:12:39
Edited by: Sinist on 20/07/2004 09:11:06
Edited by: Sinist on 20/07/2004 09:09:07
NO he is obfuscating everyone else into thinking its a bad idea. I dont think we need to back and forth on this issue. This was my second post on this thread. It was his 15th. He is rebutting everyone who posts. I could do that all day too. Its annoying personally. Especially when alot of people dont understand the changes in the first place. So someone arguiing every single thread will likely just confuse people. Especially when alot of posts in this thread just arent true.
I dont really care. Does CCP want this to be a noob game with repetitive blob wars and map camping. Or do they want the scanner to replace local and get rid of the pilots in space. Its a no brainer to me. Why should CCP argue this with us? The mecahnics they have dont work. If thats the way they want it fine. Ask the community about an issue of PvP or more dumbed down consentual PvP(like we have now) and this vote will liekly be what you get. A stalemate or the noobs coming out on top.
IM content training skills in my station for the next 3 years until there are no more skills. If they fix the game by then more power to them. If not ill do a little mining, and a little more skill training. I love combat but I just dont like the mechanics in Eve like safespotting. Nothing worse thena noob running and no chance you can kill him. Id rather avoid that. IM better then that.
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Sinist
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Posted - 2004.07.20 09:06:00 -
[230]
Edited by: Sinist on 20/07/2004 09:13:21
Edited by: Sinist on 20/07/2004 09:12:39
Edited by: Sinist on 20/07/2004 09:11:06
Edited by: Sinist on 20/07/2004 09:09:07
NO he is obfuscating everyone else into thinking its a bad idea. I dont think we need to back and forth on this issue. This was my second post on this thread. It was his 15th. He is rebutting everyone who posts. I could do that all day too. Its annoying personally. Especially when alot of people dont understand the changes in the first place. So someone arguiing every single thread will likely just confuse people. Especially when alot of posts in this thread just arent true.
I dont really care. Does CCP want this to be a noob game with repetitive blob wars and map camping. Or do they want the scanner to replace local and get rid of the pilots in space. Its a no brainer to me. Why should CCP argue this with us? The mecahnics they have dont work. If thats the way they want it fine. Ask the community about an issue of PvP or more dumbed down consentual PvP(like we have now) and this vote will liekly be what you get. A stalemate or the noobs coming out on top.
IM content training skills in my station for the next 3 years until there are no more skills. If they fix the game by then more power to them. If not ill do a little mining, and a little more skill training. I love combat but I just dont like the mechanics in Eve like safespotting. Nothing worse thena noob running and no chance you can kill him. Id rather avoid that. IM better then that.
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Stavros
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Posted - 2004.07.20 09:19:00 -
[231]
I didn't break any forum rules and I dont think there is censorship of free discussion and debate on this thread.
Its not like i'm trying to derail the thread with pointless posts either.
So pls stop personally attacking me thx.
kbye
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Stavros
|
Posted - 2004.07.20 09:19:00 -
[232]
I didn't break any forum rules and I dont think there is censorship of free discussion and debate on this thread.
Its not like i'm trying to derail the thread with pointless posts either.
So pls stop personally attacking me thx.
kbye
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Sinist
|
Posted - 2004.07.20 09:32:00 -
[233]
Edited by: Sinist on 20/07/2004 09:34:11
IM not personally attacking you stav. And I dont think I broke any forum rules either. I expressed my opinion that I thought you were wrong. And that I heard your opinions the first 10000000 times. Enough of the woe is me.
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Sinist
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Posted - 2004.07.20 09:32:00 -
[234]
Edited by: Sinist on 20/07/2004 09:34:11
IM not personally attacking you stav. And I dont think I broke any forum rules either. I expressed my opinion that I thought you were wrong. And that I heard your opinions the first 10000000 times. Enough of the woe is me.
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Jim Bond
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Posted - 2004.07.20 09:37:00 -
[235]
Edited by: Jim Bond on 20/07/2004 09:40:03
Sinist, you are starting to be as bad as Stavros. Stavros has a point he wishes to get across and yes he is expressing it repeatably and it does get repetitive. So however do your posts rebuking him and throwing your rattle around because he doesn't agree with you, and if you really wanna know, this sort of attitude got you kicked from Evolution. He has as much right as you and myself to tell people his opinions.
1 Point i would like to make, is that this is a game for new AND experienced players, and there is gonna have to be a better tutorial on how to use the scanner for new players if this is implemented. Also you have to remember there isn't 9,000 on the server 24 hours a day.
If the remove pilots on map thing is implemented,
1. Offensive PVP people are either gonna jump 20-50 jumps to find somone to kill, whereas atm they can see whereabouts to go, or instead there gonna gate camp a primary route to get kills, cause its "easier" than jumping 20-50 jps, especially at server quiet times.
2. Mining people and Defensive PVP people will not be able to see any blobs approaching, and there will be an element of surprise when somone jumps in. Again i forsee the Defensive PVP Players Camping gates, but mining no real difference except that they will find it easier to "sneak" into 0.0 space and mine there. They still however have to haul the ore 5 jps, and if they cant sneak there mins good enough have wasted there time when they get blown up by some corp camping a gate.
Regarding the Current PIS system, i would say is pretty good, you get an estimate only of the current people in that system. As there is a time delay between map updates, yes its not accurate in location or numbers as the people might have jumped 3 or 4 systems since the last map update.
To Finish, if in 1 hand there was shiva/cloaks fix coming earlier or this changing, i would go for shiva/cloaks everytime.
You all seem to forget, that implementing this will take manhours to implement, and i would rather those manhours were spent on shiva.
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Jim Bond
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Posted - 2004.07.20 09:37:00 -
[236]
Edited by: Jim Bond on 20/07/2004 09:40:03
Sinist, you are starting to be as bad as Stavros. Stavros has a point he wishes to get across and yes he is expressing it repeatably and it does get repetitive. So however do your posts rebuking him and throwing your rattle around because he doesn't agree with you, and if you really wanna know, this sort of attitude got you kicked from Evolution. He has as much right as you and myself to tell people his opinions.
1 Point i would like to make, is that this is a game for new AND experienced players, and there is gonna have to be a better tutorial on how to use the scanner for new players if this is implemented. Also you have to remember there isn't 9,000 on the server 24 hours a day.
If the remove pilots on map thing is implemented,
1. Offensive PVP people are either gonna jump 20-50 jumps to find somone to kill, whereas atm they can see whereabouts to go, or instead there gonna gate camp a primary route to get kills, cause its "easier" than jumping 20-50 jps, especially at server quiet times.
2. Mining people and Defensive PVP people will not be able to see any blobs approaching, and there will be an element of surprise when somone jumps in. Again i forsee the Defensive PVP Players Camping gates, but mining no real difference except that they will find it easier to "sneak" into 0.0 space and mine there. They still however have to haul the ore 5 jps, and if they cant sneak there mins good enough have wasted there time when they get blown up by some corp camping a gate.
Regarding the Current PIS system, i would say is pretty good, you get an estimate only of the current people in that system. As there is a time delay between map updates, yes its not accurate in location or numbers as the people might have jumped 3 or 4 systems since the last map update.
To Finish, if in 1 hand there was shiva/cloaks fix coming earlier or this changing, i would go for shiva/cloaks everytime.
You all seem to forget, that implementing this will take manhours to implement, and i would rather those manhours were spent on shiva.
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Sinist
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Posted - 2004.07.20 09:48:00 -
[237]
Edited by: Sinist on 20/07/2004 09:57:23
Edited by: Sinist on 20/07/2004 09:55:19
Edited by: Sinist on 20/07/2004 09:54:39
Since when is this supposed to be "look at map, fleet now goto enemy blob, warp in and engage blah blah blah".
This is dumbed down PvP. If your a fleet you have ot have scouts. If your a small guerilla unit you act like one and you set up traps and hit people in no mans land (if you find them). Knowing where everyone is all the time is a joke.
This to me is what the game should be about. Maybe in RL we have more sophistcated intelligence gathering. In the game it doesnt make it fun though.
Sorry you dont like my attitude. I dont stand for what I dont agree with. Sorry. And if someone says something stupid (like in Evol corp chat) ill likely tell him he is an idiot or be abrasive etc. Especially if I ***** a joke and someone acts like he is the pope and gets offended. LOL.
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Sinist
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Posted - 2004.07.20 09:48:00 -
[238]
Edited by: Sinist on 20/07/2004 09:57:23
Edited by: Sinist on 20/07/2004 09:55:19
Edited by: Sinist on 20/07/2004 09:54:39
Since when is this supposed to be "look at map, fleet now goto enemy blob, warp in and engage blah blah blah".
This is dumbed down PvP. If your a fleet you have ot have scouts. If your a small guerilla unit you act like one and you set up traps and hit people in no mans land (if you find them). Knowing where everyone is all the time is a joke.
This to me is what the game should be about. Maybe in RL we have more sophistcated intelligence gathering. In the game it doesnt make it fun though.
Sorry you dont like my attitude. I dont stand for what I dont agree with. Sorry. And if someone says something stupid (like in Evol corp chat) ill likely tell him he is an idiot or be abrasive etc. Especially if I ***** a joke and someone acts like he is the pope and gets offended. LOL.
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Jim Bond
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Posted - 2004.07.20 09:58:00 -
[239]
Edited by: Jim Bond on 20/07/2004 10:02:44
Dumbed down pvp, has gotta be better than every1 gate ganking cause they can't be bothered makin 20-50 jps when theres 2000 - 4000 people on or more for that matter.
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Jim Bond
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Posted - 2004.07.20 09:58:00 -
[240]
Edited by: Jim Bond on 20/07/2004 10:02:44
Dumbed down pvp, has gotta be better than every1 gate ganking cause they can't be bothered makin 20-50 jps when theres 2000 - 4000 people on or more for that matter.
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