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Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:06:00 - [1] Edited by: Kate Nexus on 21/12/2008 07:07:13 So I was doing some L4 missions getting beat up. I go to repair my ship, and think I'd save about 30 seconds by using the repair shop. I'm used to games like WoW or every other MMO where the game gives reasonable prices for its NPC services. I repair and it takes 5 million!!! out of my wallet. That's 5 hours of my game time down the drain. I'm on that 5 day trial reinvite they sent to old accounts and I just have to say I'm amazed. That has to be a bug? I petitioned hoping I can get a refund and I'll just repair with a 10,000 ISK module and not having wasted by time by being ripped off by NPCs. This hurts my morale pretty bad, to have to play 5 more hours just to pay that back. Now I have to go finish my mission but the reward is like a debt to pay off this NPC scam.
Khemul Zula Amarr Black Plague. Kraftwerk.	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:09:00 - [2] Pwned. ------ I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.
Crackzilla The Shadow Order New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:16:00 - [3] Someone post that learning curve image. See why this game is great? Even the NPCs scam. Gotta watch out for everything. Wait till you visit player owned stations that'll charge whatever they can get away with. Besides, if you've played before you should know better.
Gojyu Ever Flow Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:17:00 - [4] If you are running level 4's, and you are making 1mil isk an hour, you are doing something horribly, horribly wrong. You know you have to fit weapons on your bs right? Second of all, on your wow comment, as a naxx raider, lol wut?
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:18:00 - [5] Originally by: Crackzilla Someone post that learning curve image. See why this game is great? Even the NPCs scam. Gotta watch out for everything. Wait till you visit player owned stations that'll charge whatever they can get away with. Besides, if you've played before you should know better. I don't think senseless pricing from NPCs makes any sense, and if a dev will post here saying it's intended to be a scam from the game system itself (which is supposed to be the only safe system in EVE) then I'll accept that. Otherwise I think they should fix their repair prices if they want anyone other than people getting tricked into paying it to use it.
Khemul Zula Amarr Black Plague. Kraftwerk.	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:20:00 - [6] Originally by: Crackzilla Someone post that learning curve image. See why this game is great? Even the NPCs scam. Gotta watch out for everything. Wait till you visit player owned stations that'll charge whatever they can get away with. Besides, if you've played before you should know better. Linkage ------ I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:21:00 - [7] Originally by: Gojyu If you are running level 4's, and you are making 1mil isk an hour, you are doing something horribly, horribly wrong. You know you have to fit weapons on your bs right? Second of all, on your wow comment, as a naxx raider, lol wut? Oh you mean I need weapons to kill NPCs? Wow I didn't know that thanks. I'll try that next time. /sarcasm I don't need help with my missions tyvm. I was posting about ridiculous NPC repair prices. Imagine if WoW charged 5,000 gold for a flight path trip.
Gojyu Ever Flow Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:26:00 - [8] Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Gojyu If you are running level 4's, and you are making 1mil isk an hour, you are doing something horribly, horribly wrong. You know you have to fit weapons on your bs right? Second of all, on your wow comment, as a naxx raider, lol wut? Oh you mean I need weapons to kill NPCs? Wow I didn't know that thanks. I'll try that next time. /sarcasm I don't need help with my missions tyvm. I was posting about ridiculous NPC repair prices. Imagine if WoW charged 5,000 gold for a flight path trip. On average, running level 4 combat missions with decent skills should be netting you between 10-20mil isk an hour, depending on said skills and ship fitting. Thus, a 5mil repair should be about 15-30 minutes of your mission running time. Given that you should hardly, if ever, go into damage you're not tanked for, this is not that bad a deal. Your problem is not that you are being charged 5mil isk for a repair job, your problem is that you're somehow only earning 1mil isk an hour running your missions. To continue the wow theme, imagine trying to purchase a mount through farming level 10 mobs outside your capital city. It would take a while wouldn't it? and anyone who did it would think the price of said mount to be astronomical, given it'd take years to accumulate the gold from said mobs
Khemul Zula Amarr Black Plague. Kraftwerk.	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:26:00 - [9] Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Gojyu If you are running level 4's, and you are making 1mil isk an hour, you are doing something horribly, horribly wrong. You know you have to fit weapons on your bs right? Second of all, on your wow comment, as a naxx raider, lol wut? Oh you mean I need weapons to kill NPCs? Wow I didn't know that thanks. I'll try that next time. /sarcasm I don't need help with my missions tyvm. I was posting about ridiculous NPC repair prices. Imagine if WoW charged 5,000 gold for a flight path trip. You know you have to activate the weapons also right? Otherwise they just sit there looking pretty. ------ I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.
Crackzilla The Shadow Order New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:27:00 - [10] Originally by: Kate Nexus Imagine if WoW charged 5,000 gold for a flight path trip. 5mil isn't much isk to most players. Imagine if WoW charged 5 gold to travel and offered 3rd party travel servies. The NPCs services are doubtful to compete with other solutions but would be suitable in some cases. Originally by: Kate Nexus I think they should fix their repair prices if they want anyone other than people getting tricked into paying it to use it. Most people purchase a service only after looking at the quote. The point is so that people generally don't use the npc services. There are player owned stations in 0.0 that have better deals (assuming you've got the right connections). Then there are other options like remote reps and local repping. NPC services are easy and so expensive. As someone else pointed out, if you're running l4 missions you should make way more. You might even make more just salvaging wrecks after other folks.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:29:00 - [11] Edited by: Kate Nexus on 21/12/2008 07:31:53 Originally by: Gojyu On average, running level 4 combat missions with decent skills should be netting you between 10-20mil isk an hour, depending on said skills and ship fitting. Thus, a 5mil repair should be about 15-30 minutes of your mission running time. Given that you should hardly, if ever, go into damage you're not tanked for, this is not that bad a deal. Your problem is not that you are being charged 5mil isk for a repair job, your problem is that you're somehow only earning 1mil isk an hour running your missions. To continue the wow theme, imagine trying to purchase a mount through farming level 10 mobs outside your capital city. It would take a while wouldn't it? and anyone who did it would think the price of said mount to be astronomical, given it'd take years to accumulate the gold from said mobs I didn't ask about optimal ISK/hr, I play to enjoy myself not slave mine ISK. No I don't have a faction fitted perma-tank, but I do fine anyways. I didn't mention my ship because it's irrelevant, but you criticize it without having seen it. Maybe it's you fitting no guns and tech 1, because you criticise my tech 2? Have you ever heard of a challenge? No? Ok then, maybe WoW is more suited to you. I like a challenge, but that isn't what this post is about. It's about NPC prices which don't make sense; you can buy a module for a fraction that does the same thing.
Gojyu Ever Flow Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:34:00 - [12] Quote: Have you ever heard of a challenge? No? Ok then, maybe WoW is more suited to you. I like a challenge, Yet I'm not the one complaining about the challenge of npc repair bills. If you could do it so much more easily with a module, then congratulations, you've saved isk, thus beating eve, so what's the problem?
Khemul Zula Amarr Black Plague. Kraftwerk.	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:35:00 - [13] Edited by: Khemul Zula on 21/12/2008 07:35:02 Originally by: Kate Nexus Edited by: Kate Nexus on 21/12/2008 07:31:53 Originally by: Gojyu On average, running level 4 combat missions with decent skills should be netting you between 10-20mil isk an hour, depending on said skills and ship fitting. Thus, a 5mil repair should be about 15-30 minutes of your mission running time. Given that you should hardly, if ever, go into damage you're not tanked for, this is not that bad a deal. Your problem is not that you are being charged 5mil isk for a repair job, your problem is that you're somehow only earning 1mil isk an hour running your missions. To continue the wow theme, imagine trying to purchase a mount through farming level 10 mobs outside your capital city. It would take a while wouldn't it? and anyone who did it would think the price of said mount to be astronomical, given it'd take years to accumulate the gold from said mobs I didn't ask about optimal ISK/hr, I play to enjoy myself not slave mine ISK. No I don't have a faction fitted perma-tank, but I do fine anyways. I didn't mention my ship because it's irrelevant, but you criticize it without having seen it. Maybe it's you fitting no guns and tech 1, because you criticise my tech 2? Have you ever heard of a challenge? No? Ok then, maybe WoW is more suited to you. I like a challenge, but that isn't what this post is about. It's about NPC prices which don't make sense; you can buy a module for a fraction that does the same thing. And people can get sex for free at most clubs/bars. Doesn't stop them from paying for high priced call-girls and ruining a political career. EVE is a lot like that actually.... ------ I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:35:00 - [14] Originally by: Crackzilla Most people purchase a service only after looking at the quote. The point is so that people generally don't use the npc services. There are player owned stations in 0.0 that have better deals (assuming you've got the right connections). Then there are other options like remote reps and local repping. NPC services are easy and so expensive. I'm in empire, and if it's in game then obviously people should be using it, or it's an obsolete feature and my complaint has merit.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:36:00 - [15] Originally by: Khemul Zula And people can get sex for free at most clubs/bars. Doesn't stop them for paying for high priced call-girls and ruining a political career. EVE is a lot like that actually.... I didn't pay for a high priced repair job that came with a lapdance. Your analogy doesn't work. If devs will give me a lapdance with my repair then maybe I'll consider it worth the ISK.
Khemul Zula Amarr Black Plague. Kraftwerk.	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:38:00 - [16] Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Khemul Zula And people can get sex for free at most clubs/bars. Doesn't stop them for paying for high priced call-girls and ruining a political career. EVE is a lot like that actually.... I didn't pay for a high priced repair job that came with a lapdance. Your analogy doesn't work. If devs will give me a lapdance with my repair then maybe I'll consider it worth the ISK. They do offer this servive though. You have to petition it though. ------ I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:39:00 - [17] Originally by: Khemul Zula Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Gojyu If you are running level 4's, and you are making 1mil isk an hour, you are doing something horribly, horribly wrong. You know you have to fit weapons on your bs right? Second of all, on your wow comment, as a naxx raider, lol wut? Oh you mean I need weapons to kill NPCs? Wow I didn't know that thanks. I'll try that next time. /sarcasm I don't need help with my missions tyvm. I was posting about ridiculous NPC repair prices. Imagine if WoW charged 5,000 gold for a flight path trip. You know you have to activate the weapons also right? Otherwise they just sit there looking pretty. No I didn't know I have to activate weapons. I just beat Worlds Collide without doing that. Am I good?
Crackzilla The Shadow Order New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:39:00 - [18] Originally by: Kate Nexus if it's in game then obviously people should be using it People should be using what they can afford. What if we're playing Boardwalk and you land on my Park Place or Boardwalk property? It'll cost ya... Nothing wrong with that.
Karanth Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:40:00 - [19] Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Crackzilla Most people purchase a service only after looking at the quote. The point is so that people generally don't use the npc services. There are player owned stations in 0.0 that have better deals (assuming you've got the right connections). Then there are other options like remote reps and local repping. NPC services are easy and so expensive. I'm in empire, and if it's in game then obviously people should be using it, or it's an obsolete feature and my complaint has merit. Well in my case it's way faster to rep modules and drones and the occasional bleed-through via the station repair services than it is to bother refitting and undocking and then doing work or using paste. Just because you can't think up a reason to make it useful doesn't mean it isn't. It's a bigger waste of time to refit to fix 20 hull of a BS than it is to have them do it. Wheel of Whineage
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:41:00 - [20] Originally by: Khemul Zula Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Khemul Zula And people can get sex for free at most clubs/bars. Doesn't stop them for paying for high priced call-girls and ruining a political career. EVE is a lot like that actually.... I didn't pay for a high priced repair job that came with a lapdance. Your analogy doesn't work. If devs will give me a lapdance with my repair then maybe I'll consider it worth the ISK. They do offer this servive though. You have to petition it though. I sent a petition but I can't find it. Its not in the petition button menu, I can't find my lapdance.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:43:00 - [21] Originally by: Karanth Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Crackzilla Most people purchase a service only after looking at the quote. The point is so that people generally don't use the npc services. There are player owned stations in 0.0 that have better deals (assuming you've got the right connections). Then there are other options like remote reps and local repping. NPC services are easy and so expensive. I'm in empire, and if it's in game then obviously people should be using it, or it's an obsolete feature and my complaint has merit. Well in my case it's way faster to rep modules and drones and the occasional bleed-through via the station repair services than it is to bother refitting and undocking and then doing work or using paste. Just because you can't think up a reason to make it useful doesn't mean it isn't. It's a bigger waste of time to refit to fix 20 hull of a BS than it is to have them do it. It wasn't 20 hull, it was easily repaired armor. It wasn't worth my ISK. 500k would be many times more and I could understand it, 5.25 million in a 1.0 seucurity no way. That's just asking to rip people off without a lapdance.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:45:00 - [22] Originally by: Crackzilla Originally by: Kate Nexus if it's in game then obviously people should be using it People should be using what they can afford. What if we're playing Boardwalk and you land on my Park Place or Boardwalk property? It'll cost ya... Nothing wrong with that. I can afford it, but it's a waste of my time to remake that ISK. It's not boardwalk, it's a heavily inflated NPC price in a noob system that nobody in their right mind would intentionally use.
Sral TBear Mark Of Chaos Liberty.	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:45:00 - [23] Armour and hull reppers are your friends....damege to modules....well i have never lost a module to this....and with damege to the drones....Armour remote reppers and hull remote reppers are your friends....
Jacinta Worth Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:48:00 - [24] There are times when I consider 5 million ISK worth the convenience of not having to refit for repair modules. Mostly I just refit and repair for free, though. Therefore, the repair bill is a convenience charge and one I happily pay when I choose to. The great thing about it, though, (and listen closely to this) is that you don't actually have to ever pay a repair bill at all. Weird, I know.
Khemul Zula Amarr Black Plague. Kraftwerk.	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:48:00 - [25] Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Crackzilla Originally by: Kate Nexus if it's in game then obviously people should be using it People should be using what they can afford. What if we're playing Boardwalk and you land on my Park Place or Boardwalk property? It'll cost ya... Nothing wrong with that. I can afford it, but it's a waste of my time to remake that ISK. It's not boardwalk, it's a heavily inflated NPC price in a noob system that nobody in their right mind would intentionally use. That actually is the definition of Boardwalk. ------ I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:48:00 - [26] Originally by: Sral TBear Armour and hull reppers are your friends....damege to modules....well i have never lost a module to this....and with damege to the drones....Armour remote reppers and hull remote reppers are your friends.... Thanks. One nice poster finally. This forum hasn't changed much. Yeah I like repairers too. I've played a lot of MMOs since EVE and I guess I've been used to ballpark reasonable prices from NPCs. I know to be careful of players in EVE, but it's always been the game policy (back when I played) that you could trust NPCs and the game software itself.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:49:00 - [27] Edited by: MotherMoon on 21/12/2008 07:50:27 Originally by: Kate Nexus Edited by: Kate Nexus on 21/12/2008 07:31:53 Originally by: Gojyu On average, running level 4 combat missions with decent skills should be netting you between 10-20mil isk an hour, depending on said skills and ship fitting. Thus, a 5mil repair should be about 15-30 minutes of your mission running time. Given that you should hardly, if ever, go into damage you're not tanked for, this is not that bad a deal. Your problem is not that you are being charged 5mil isk for a repair job, your problem is that you're somehow only earning 1mil isk an hour running your missions. To continue the wow theme, imagine trying to purchase a mount through farming level 10 mobs outside your capital city. It would take a while wouldn't it? and anyone who did it would think the price of said mount to be astronomical, given it'd take years to accumulate the gold from said mobs I didn't ask about optimal ISK/hr, I play to enjoy myself not slave mine ISK. No I don't have a faction fitted perma-tank, but I do fine anyways. I didn't mention my ship because it's irrelevant, but you criticize it without having seen it. Maybe it's you fitting no guns and tech 1, because you criticise my tech 2? Have you ever heard of a challenge? No? Ok then, maybe WoW is more suited to you. I like a challenge, but that isn't what this post is about. It's about NPC prices which don't make sense; you can buy a module for a fraction that does the same thing. I don't know if CCP likes this idea, but maybe you should be able to use armor and shield reps in station, OR the repair bill should be based on HOW MUCH hp your healing and not the cost of the ship. I mean repairing frigates and ruisers is "cheap" it's just battleships with their silly base prices. when you aren't gaining THAT MUCH more hit points. thoughts?
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:50:00 - [28] Originally by: Khemul Zula Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Crackzilla Originally by: Kate Nexus if it's in game then obviously people should be using it People should be using what they can afford. What if we're playing Boardwalk and you land on my Park Place or Boardwalk property? It'll cost ya... Nothing wrong with that. I can afford it, but it's a waste of my time to remake that ISK. It's not boardwalk, it's a heavily inflated NPC price in a noob system that nobody in their right mind would intentionally use. That actually is the definition of Boardwalk. Boardwalk is worth the value you buy it for. I didn't rent repairs from you, I bought repairs from a station. That's nothing like buying boardwalk and being able to rent it out as a business strategy. You're trying too hard to use silly analogies without addressing my core suggestion.
Crackzilla The Shadow Order New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:50:00 - [29] Originally by: Kate Nexus it was easily repaired armor. It works out so 100% of struct + armor = cost of ship (I think). You could afford to buy the ship but not the repairs? This is like buying a Porsche and wondering why you're not getting the repair bill for a Ford.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:51:00 - [30] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Kate Nexus Edited by: Kate Nexus on 21/12/2008 07:31:53 Originally by: Gojyu On average, running level 4 combat missions with decent skills should be netting you between 10-20mil isk an hour, depending on said skills and ship fitting. Thus, a 5mil repair should be about 15-30 minutes of your mission running time. Given that you should hardly, if ever, go into damage you're not tanked for, this is not that bad a deal. Your problem is not that you are being charged 5mil isk for a repair job, your problem is that you're somehow only earning 1mil isk an hour running your missions. To continue the wow theme, imagine trying to purchase a mount through farming level 10 mobs outside your capital city. It would take a while wouldn't it? and anyone who did it would think the price of said mount to be astronomical, given it'd take years to accumulate the gold from said mobs I didn't ask about optimal ISK/hr, I play to enjoy myself not slave mine ISK. No I don't have a faction fitted perma-tank, but I do fine anyways. I didn't mention my ship because it's irrelevant, but you criticize it without having seen it. Maybe it's you fitting no guns and tech 1, because you criticise my tech 2? Have you ever heard of a challenge? No? Ok then, maybe WoW is more suited to you. I like a challenge, but that isn't what this post is about. It's about NPC prices which don't make sense; you can buy a module for a fraction that does the same thing. I don't know if CCP likes this idea, but maybe you should be able to use armor and shield reps in station, OR it should be based on HOW MUCH hp your healing and not the cost of the ship. thoughts? That sounds good, but they should disable the repairshop or reduce the price to something reasonable. The ISK flow will increase if it's competitive, right now I can only imagine in empire people who get tricked into it use it and nobody else. From ISK sink perspective they'd sink a lot more ISK with lower prices.

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