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Skill Que - Please Petition to Add

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An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.27 18:29:00 - [31] What a new and exciting thread that has never happened before. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Guttripper State War Academy	Posted - 2008.12.27 18:30:00 - [32] For discussion sake, let's accept CCP does add a skill queue. How would it be set-up to be acceptable to everyone? - Allow one skill to continue to the next level once? - Allow one skill to continue until maxed out? - Allow the pilot to set one other skill to start after current skill finishes current level? - Allow the pilot to set one other skill to start after current skill maxes out in level? - Allow numerous skills to be added and keep going until further instructions from pilot? - Restrict skills to the first two to three levels to void any potential abuse with higher and longer trained skills? - ?????... Unfortunately, the player base would not be able to collectively decide upon one stance and one stance only. If CCP allowed one skill to go from level 1 to level 2 and that is that, then people would complain about the shortness of training time. If CCP allowed any one skill to continue training within itself, then people would complain about desiring to queue and train other skills instead. If CCP allowed any two skills to be connected for continuous training, then people will complain they will want more than just one more skill. Once CCP gives the player base an inch, they will expect a mile. A potentially fair option would be to allow the pilot to set-up a default category within one of the various skill branches to allow skill points to accumulate. Obviously, the primary skill base would have to already be at level 5. Example - a player is training Medium Laser Guns to level 4. The skill ends and the training defaults into a Gunnery pool (obviously Gunnery = level 5). Once the player returns, they can "spend" these accumulated points into one Gunnery branched skill, perhaps a ~tax~ cost so the player does not transfer at 100% pay-out. The player then trains a Social skill and defaults the training into a Social pool (again with Social = level 5 as required) to later "spend" the points and be ~taxed~ into a Social skill only. Thus the oddball timed skills can be cleared and players keep learning in their decided category without abusing the system. Just a thought.
Ava Baby Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.27 18:32:00 - [33] Edited by: Ava Baby on 27/12/2008 18:36:20 I don't need a skill que. But, a web based skill change option would be cool. Simply log onto your account, select skill list (whatever), and change. No que and no missing out on lost training time because of school, work, or whatever. That seems like a viable option to me. Also, your account would have to be active to use the "feature" Originally by: Asestorian I support this message. Whatever it is.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2008.12.27 18:44:00 - [34] Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 27/12/2008 18:45:59 Originally by: Guttripper For discussion sake, let's accept CCP does add a skill queue. How would it be set-up to be acceptable to everyone? - Allow one skill to continue to the next level once? - Allow one skill to continue until maxed out? - Allow the pilot to set one other skill to start after current skill finishes current level? - Allow the pilot to set one other skill to start after current skill maxes out in level? - Allow numerous skills to be added and keep going until further instructions from pilot? - Restrict skills to the first two to three levels to void any potential abuse with higher and longer trained skills? - ?????... Unfortunately, the player base would not be able to collectively decide upon one stance and one stance only. If CCP allowed one skill to go from level 1 to level 2 and that is that, then people would complain about the shortness of training time. If CCP allowed any one skill to continue training within itself, then people would complain about desiring to queue and train other skills instead. If CCP allowed any two skills to be connected for continuous training, then people will complain they will want more than just one more skill. Once CCP gives the player base an inch, they will expect a mile. No we would not reach a concenus on the implementation. We never did on any change that CCP ever implemented and this hasn't propably happened ever in the history of mankind. The multitude of suggestions is not a problem. CCP only has to choose the one that addresses the complaints about the current system and causes minimal new issues. Most of the people complaining would take almost any other system over the current one. Originally by: Guttripper A potentially fair option would be to allow the pilot to set-up a default category within one of the various skill branches to allow skill points to accumulate. Obviously, the primary skill base would have to already be at level 5. Example - a player is training Medium Laser Guns to level 4. The skill ends and the training defaults into a Gunnery pool (obviously Gunnery = level 5). Once the player returns, they can "spend" these accumulated points into one Gunnery branched skill, perhaps a ~tax~ cost so the player does not transfer at 100% pay-out. The player then trains a Social skill and defaults the training into a Social pool (again with Social = level 5 as required) to later "spend" the points and be ~taxed~ into a Social skill only. Thus the oddball timed skills can be cleared and players keep learning in their decided category without abusing the system. Why this? Is it mandatory that every new idea must be as complicated to understand and propably implement as possible, even when better and simpler alternatives exist? Keep it simple in implementation and use, if there are not pressing issues that can only be addressed using a more complex system. KISS is a simple guideline that usually gives the best results.
Guttripper State War Academy	Posted - 2008.12.27 19:00:00 - [35] Originally by: Destination SkillQueue (snipped) CCP only has to choose the one that addresses the complaints about the current system and causes minimal new issues. (snipped) Keep it simple in implementation and use, if there are not pressing issues that can only be addressed using a more complex system. KISS is a simple guideline that usually gives the best results. With a bit of snipping here and there, I think these two quotes sum up how CCP sees whole skill queue. Obviously they must be keeping it simple for all: login, change your skill, go about your business.
Belmarduk Amarr M.A.R.S. Enterprises	Posted - 2008.12.27 19:59:00 - [36] Edited by: Belmarduk on 27/12/2008 20:01:13 Originally by: Grarr Dexx Originally by: Guttripper drivel drivel...again Ahhh Mr Dexx And perhaps you remember that I counter-discussed EVERY single of those things? Edit: And CCP at the current time has the advantage that they are providing a good game - Things like the SQ-Issue CAN be things that might tip people who are on the verge of leaving... Just speaking generally - I am ****ed of about the year-long SQ fiasco but I am still here to stay Mainchar:
Grarr Dexx Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.12.27 20:04:00 - [37] Originally by: Belmarduk Edited by: Belmarduk on 27/12/2008 20:01:13 Originally by: Grarr Dexx Originally by: Guttripper drivel drivel...again Ahhh Mr Dexx drivel but I am still here to stay I can do the same, and say the same. ----- Nexus stamps of approvalÖ count: 1
Tank CEO Caldari Dark Cartel	Posted - 2008.12.27 20:12:00 - [38] It is understandable that CCP wants people to login, but CCP can add limitations to the skill queue. Just make it so you can only queue one or two skills after the one you are training. I mean, im saying this because, ive been training my character for 6 years man, im tired of it. Its not really that bad because I have skills that take longer then a week to train. And I sort of do want to train another alt character.. to sell for isk... but I don't wannt to have to go through all of those short skills to train. Teamspeak Rumble Recording! Vote for homepage
Belmarduk Amarr M.A.R.S. Enterprises	Posted - 2008.12.27 20:32:00 - [39] Originally by: Grarr Dexx I can do the same, and say the same.[/quote Yep - Fair enough Mainchar:
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.12.28 04:10:00 - [40] Originally by: Tank CEO And I sort of do want to train another alt character.. to sell for isk... but I don't wannt to have to go through all of those short skills to train. So your admitting your main use of a que would be farming an alt? No Thanks, no que. Get past the first few months, and its not like its an everyday deal, plan out your skill right, and its not even an issue at all really, but I refuse to tell anybody how to do that.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.12.28 04:49:00 - [41] Why does a 6 year player (I thought EVE started in 2003?) need a skill queue? Shouldn't all of your skills takes 20+ days? Is it too hard to log on once every 20 days? If you miss a few hours or a day of training on your 6 year old character does it matter? The people who need skill queues are new players when every skill takes 10-40 minutes and you have so many skills to train. Okay, throw in an "emergency skill to be trained" for most people but really older players do not need a skill queue. The "real" vets of EVE play at least once every 20 days and shouldn't be bothered about losing a few sp compared to their 50+ mil sp totals. -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Davina Braben	Posted - 2008.12.28 04:53:00 - [42] It's silly it isn't in.
Taua Roqa Minmatar Silhouette Soliloquy	Posted - 2008.12.28 13:05:00 - [43] Originally by: Tank CEO It is understandable that CCP wants people to login,. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=958414 it would help if we could actually login to change skills when we want. in lieu of 100% server uptime, ccp, give us a skill queue wudya?
Linc Junior	Posted - 2008.12.28 13:08:00 - [44] Signed. Remind me to not have skills change 2hrs before or after downtime.
HalfLoaf Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.12.28 13:09:00 - [45] I have to agree that a skill queue must be top priority especially when i cant login to change skills due to server being broken . --- Loaf Is For Living !! Loaf It To The Full
Taua Roqa Minmatar Silhouette Soliloquy	Posted - 2008.12.28 13:37:00 - [46] Now that ghost training has been removed, and it is quite clear that our subs = skillpoints, CCP also need to implement a way of returning lost SP, as we are paying for something we are no longer receiving. I have to go out now, so i expect 12 hours worth of SP to be credited to my account when i return. cheers.
Vherr Arkhar	Posted - 2008.12.28 15:29:00 - [47] I'd be so happy if you could just set the "after this one finishes" skill. Just the one next skill. That way workdays and nights could actually be used to finish off some skills that take around 4-5 hours. Or WHEN am I supposed to do those? Weekends only?
Ghoest	Posted - 2008.12.28 15:30:00 - [48] There should be a skill queue of 1. People would still log in just as much but you could always have a big long skill waiting in reserve in case something goes wrong. If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
Layckhaie Kaele	Posted - 2008.12.28 16:09:00 - [49] What about a Holiday Skill queue? You get to set 1, maybe 2 periods of up to 2 weeks each year (from your chars birthday). From the My Account page you get to do a kinda out of office thing: away from 01/01/09 to 15/01/09. During this period you are basically saying 'I am out of the country and won't be able to log in at all'. This means that: a) Once you set the period, even if you are back early, you won't be able to log in until the set end date is reached. Your out of office/holiday skill queue is your choice to start. You should be able to cancel it before it starts, just in case your holiday or business trip is cancelled. b) You are able to skill queue everything you like during the 2 weeks as if you were in game and able to play. c) If you use 1 period of 3 days and not the full 2 weeks, then it's gone. Its just 2 periods up to 14 days each year. Not 28 days of queuing possible. The advantage of this is, that people often go away, and are screwed due to not having access to a machine that will run eve. The whole "You can not log in until your out of office has expired" will prevent people from doing it unless they really mean to be away. It also maintains CCP's argument of "We want people to log in, even if just to skill change". A man in the middle of a forest on a hike for 2 week's isn't going to be be able to log in at all, so this proves it and provides a better gaming experience for the subscriber. The fact that you can only do it once or twice a year, means that people with alts training for the purpose of sale, can't use it continuously. It would really help players to manage their account when they geniunely go on holiday who won't be able to log in regardless. It would allow them to take a break from their normal life, without having to have Eve Addiction Skill Changing Syndrome (EASCS) on their minds.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2008.12.28 16:57:00 - [50] Originally by: Layckhaie Kaele Edited by: Layckhaie Kaele on 28/12/2008 16:18:52 Edited by: Layckhaie Kaele on 28/12/2008 16:18:18 What about a Holiday Skill queue? You get to set 1, maybe 2 periods of up to 2 weeks each year (from your chars birthday). From the My Account page you get to do a kinda out of office thing: away from 01/01/09 to 15/01/09. During this period you are basically saying 'I am out of the country and won't be able to log in at all'. This means that: a) Once you set the period, even if you are back early, you won't be able to log in until the set end date is reached. Your out of office/holiday skill queue is your choice to start. You should be able to cancel it before it starts, just in case your holiday or business trip is cancelled. b) You are able to skill queue everything you like during the 2 weeks as if you were in game and able to play. c) If you use 1 period of 3 days and not the full 2 weeks, then it's gone. Its just 2 periods up to 14 days each year. Not 28 days of queuing possible. I'm not sure if you are trolling or serious, but this is /facepalm material. Why on earth would you do something like this? You are creating pointless limitations on the system without any need to do so. What is even worse, your idea doesn't even address the issue of skilltraining loss caused by unpredictable problems, like we had today. Quote: The advantage of this is, that people often go away, and are screwed due to not having access to a machine that will run eve. Often that lack of access isn't planned. Servers die, net connections die, RL screws your plans or you just forgot. Your solution is complicated and can't address these simple issues. It doesn't even mitigate the problems they cause. Almost all other suggestions would solve these issues for the most part. Quote: The whole "You can not log in until your out of office has expired" will prevent people from doing it unless they really mean to be away. Again why is this a good idea or necessary? Quote: It also maintains CCP's argument of "We want people to log in, even if just to skill change". A man in the middle of a forest on a hike for 2 week's isn't going to be be able to log in at all, so this proves it and provides a better gaming experience for the subscriber. What? You specificly said that you don't need to logon to change skills during that time, so no it doesn't. I can't say with certainty what CCPs intention is regarding what they said, because the argument is laughably weak. Quote: The fact that you can only do it once or twice a year, means that people with alts training for the purpose of sale, can't use it continuously. People already train alts in the current system. You have to ask yourself, is spiting the farmer really worth all the inconvenience to the other players and the lost training time? For me the answer is not even close. Quote: It would really help players to manage their account when they geniunely go on holiday who won't be able to log in regardless. It would allow them to take a break from their normal life, without having to have Eve Addiction Skill Changing Syndrome (EASCS) on their minds. So would a skill queue of almost any kind. With the difference being that other solutions would benefit all users, even when unpredictable problems occur. So why on earth would anyone want to implement something like this, when better and simple solutions are available?
Kazrm Caldari Abundance Industries The Economy	Posted - 2008.12.28 16:57:00 - [51] Edited by: Kazrm on 28/12/2008 17:00:25 Now that ghost training is gone, I don't see why CCP would want to prevent this sort of thing. They make just as much money if somebody has an active account but doesn't log in. If anything, they probably make a little more money because their bandwidth and power costs are lower when people aren't really playing the game. Probably lowers lag for everyone as well, making it a better game experience overall. While they probably have no reason now to prevent such a queue, that's quite a bit different than saying there's no downside for them to implement such a feature. They'd have to spend time and effort (money) implementing it and testing it, and no doubt dealing with the inevitable bugs caused by it. While I'd love a full queue system that can go forever, I'd be happy with just a pick-the-next-skill thing, or even just a start-training-the-next-level thing. They could even add a 10 second delay or something before the next skill trains, if they're so worried about people building up their account without being in the game, so long as there's no delay if somebody is there doing it themself. -Kazrm
Layckhaie Kaele	Posted - 2008.12.28 19:40:00 - [52] Obviously, I would like a proper skill queue like all. However, if CCP are dead set, heels in, tough **** sherlock, over my dead body against a skill queue on the basis of "We want people to log in to EVE, not remotely set skills, not queue a year of skills because we want a million logins per month", the above suggestion is a half way mark. It enables people to queue skills on the basis of planned afk time. Which tbh, may not be more of a pain in the arse, but it is still a pain. For example, Lets I am away over the next 14 days, and none of the skills I want to train breach the 14 day mark, then what? A) I can set something I really want to fly a sexy ship, but that may only have 7 days worth of training. So I lose 7 days. B) I could train a 30 day skill that, yes I would want maybe 4 - 8 months from now, but not at the moment. Yes it doesn't address the unplanned outage of servers, or the unplanned RL stuff like needing to stay late at work, or trains cancelled. You lose a couple of hours? We currently accept that as a fact of EVE that is sh*t. And we all try to manage our time to cope with it. The system really isn't complicated, and more over, it doesn't compromise on people logging into the server as they wouldn't have been able to anyway. That addresses the laughable argument from CCP (see I agree with that). The "can't login due to out of office" is a guarantee to CCP that 'on scouts honour' I will not be able to sign in so I need to queue skills. Limiting the set number of out of office periods means that it can't be manipulated, if they want X amount of log ins per month, even from training alts, let them have their cake and eat it. Instead of us sitting with around not getting anything at all from them, take the reasons that they state for not implementing and work around it. Throwing our toys out of the pram about the skill queue clearly isn't working.
Beet Head Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.28 21:22:00 - [53] I can't believe you guys are letting yourselves get trolled and baited by Tank CEO. That's gotta be the forum equivalent of letting Jehova's Witnesses into your home.
gpfwestie Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.12.28 21:37:00 - [54] I agree, bring back Ghost training and 30 day cards, quick too please I only have 3 days left on this 5 day freebie you gave me.
Tank CEO Caldari Dark Cartel	Posted - 2008.12.29 17:01:00 - [55] Whoever objects to this small feature is just a damn troll looking for an argument. This is a buff to the players itself. We pay a monthly fee and nothing frustrates us more than forgetting to start a new skill after one finished or not being able to train because of downtime or just simple not being able to be at the computer or have access to the internet at that specific time to train another skill. Give us Skill Queue. We pay monthly to train skills. It takes time to train skills, hell, its taken me almost 6 years to reach 96 million skill points. Teamspeak Rumble Recording! Vote for homepage
Cygnus Scott Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.29 18:08:00 - [56] Well another thing they could do is use the Certificate System for the Basic and Standard certs. The upper level ones take so darn long individual management is not that onerous. Set it up so that you could set it so that your character trains for say Core Basic. Then you character trains the necessary skills for the Cert in alphabetical order by level. E.G. Core Fitting - Basic It trains Electronics, Electronic Upgrades, Energy Grid Upgrades, and Engineering to level 1, then 2, then 3 and you get the certificate. You would have to have the necessary pre-reqs for the Cert based training to work. So lets say you don't have Engineering for the above example, you get a message telling you so. You'd then have to obtain the book and at least train it a second to get it on your character skill list. could work /shrug The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
Amberfyre Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.12.29 18:14:00 - [57] Originally by: 3141592653589793238462 Mate its just dawned on me that your char name is Pi, Roger Banjo
Sean Faust Gallente Point of No Return Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.29 18:20:00 - [58] Assuming it did have a skill queue, the best way to do it would be: No skills with more than 24 hours until completion can be put into the queue. Queue can not total more than 7 days of training. If I'm ever training a skill that takes a few days to complete, I KNOW I'll have time in between now and then to set it to something else. Same with long, long trains. There's simply no reason to be able to queue numerous month-long skills after another. The skill queue to me should serve the following purpose: To make sure I don't go without training if a skill ends while I'm at work, class, or asleep at night. Example: I'd like to train a skill that's going to be done in 15 hours, so I set it before I go to bed at night. However, when it ends I will not be home from work for another 4-5 hours, which is 4-5 hours I have to go without training, so I have to set something else before I leave for work in the morning and play the same skill-switch game the following evening/morning, which is ******ed. So realistically I'd only need one that can go a day or two at most. That being said, I can understand why CCP would refuse to implement one if it really did make the character farmers/sellers jobs easier.
Highwind Cid	Posted - 2008.12.29 18:21:00 - [59] Edited by: Highwind Cid on 29/12/2008 18:32:19 Originally by: Guttripper CCP could get mean and take away the offline training time. Do not play another online game for a week and see how far your character advanced, compared to what CCP is offering with Eve Online at the moment. Actually in WAR, I get rested EXP when not playing, doubling my EXP when I do play. Also since we are comparing apples to oranges, lets get rid of offline training in EVE and see what game the rest of us are still playing at the end of the day. Also I really think at the least some simple SQ should be put in. The point of having people actually 'log in' is very weak. Without SQ: Log in Open Character Sheet Change Skill Spin ship a couple times Log out Logged in time: 35 Seconds With SQ: Skill changes automatically Logged in time: 0 Seconds Woh now, big difference there.
Brainless Bimbo Minmatar	Posted - 2008.12.29 18:55:00 - [60] Originally by: Tank ceo "nothing bothers me more than missing time on a skill because I forgot about it even thought I have Eve mon" Everything in EvE relies on the players vigilence, i've lost days of training because i forget to check, but that's my fault not the games; EvE, its all about manifesting personal responsibility and suffering when you don't, you jump un-scouted and you end up going back to the clone vat its your fault (and you accept it no matter how many billion ISK it cost you), you forget to change a skill its your fault (and you accept it), if you played for 6 years you should know eve is harsh and unforgiving and a skill queue is just not Eve. ...... continues overleaf.

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